your thoughts on pescetarianism?
 

It might be a step away from Carnism but it is still Carnism.

You don't love fish, you love eating dead ones. There's a difference.

I agree with Rah nam above. Flesh is flesh, and there's no difference between eating the flesh of a cow and eating the flesh of a fish.

Hiya, I'm pescetarian purely because my chronic health issues worsened on a fully vegetarian/vegan diet. I don't like it but it's the only way to do it. I can't advise on whether it will benefit you spiritually because I don't know enough about that side of things. I do think that eating with a conscience can only benefit you. Some people have found that eating meat is the only way they can retain or improve their health so the issue is far from clear cut. But my decision stemmed from desire to do as little harm as possible. Think about your reasons for what you eat and the rest will fall into place.

Crushed and suffocated to death in a trawlerman's net ... This is somehow morally agreeable.
As the others have said, flesh is flesh. A life is taken and horribly so.

The fish heads on the 'If Slaughterhouses Had Glass Walls' video ... No words.

I'm Hindu and have been vegetarian all my life. I do not believe in eating meat, I know it is healthier not to, and I do not really understand how anyone can choose to.

That being said, that is why I don't eat meat, and never will. This is a personal choice, and one only you can make. No one should try to push or guilt you into it. If you find it easier to taper off, do that, or to become pescetarian, great, at least you are making an effort, and I heartily applaud that. If you change your mind, or don't succeed, you've still done more than many I know.

If you'd like some suggestions for meat substitutes, pm me. My son loves fish subs (he loves seaweed, and we found that meant a lot of fish substitutes appealed to him), and we found a wonderful place for them, as well as other meat subs, and recipes.

The less animals we eat the better, imo.
Eating some meat is better than being a carnivore.
Being a pescetarian is better than eating many more species of creature.
Being a vegan is better still.
Anybody who wants to cut down on the amount of animal they eat should be encouraged in my book. Better to eat one cow in one's lifetime than 500 I reckon.

I concur completely!!!!

Yes, I am all for letting people take their own decisions and presenting points of view but not pushing anything on to them..

I think it can only help your body to give up meat and just eat fish and vegetables in a nutshell... It is not for others to say what is wrong or right. None of these types of decisions are taken in isolation to general lifestyle choices, anyway.

You are what you eat.
 

I was brought up in a meat eating family but at 8-9 yrs old I became a veggie.
I cant eat dead flesh it would make me vomit, but I try not to judge people who do :D

kjsakljalka

I just want to chime in my opinion as I am a vegan for almost 2 years and was a vegetarian 5 years before that. The way I see it is that a pescetarian diet should not be compared to a vegan or vegetarian diet. Vegans and Vegetarians choose this lifestyle to restrict meat of any kind from their diets, this includes fish.

I actually cannot stand that when some people find out I'm a vegan they ask if I still eat fish, as if fish are excluded from being a living, breathing animal. If you choose to eat fish but avoid chicken, turkey, pork or red meat than that is your choice and a healthy one, but it should not be compared to veganism or vegetarianism other than different human diets.

So to answer the original question involving the spirituality of eating only fish, you can say that eating fish comes from a lesser (not too much) inhumane way of raising it for food. If diet and spirituality ever come into play and such an individual is not affected by how cows, pigs, and chickens are raised to be processed and sold as food they should do more research. I'd rather feel responsible for eating soy beans that were slaughtered for food.

I used to feel exactly the same way. I've been vegetarian all my life. I do not eat anything, or buy anything, that in any way harms an animal, never have. And I still get the, do you eat chicken, do you eat fish, questions, which kills me (it is stunning people don't know what vegetarian means, forget vegan!). I was in a store the other day, and someone offered me a sample of something with shrimp and I said we're vegetarian (meaning my son and myself, because when I said no thank you she offered it to my son!!), and she said, it's not meat, it's fish! I really wanted to lecture her, but refrained, which took great! willpower, believe me!

But, I have come to realize that anything is better than nothing. And a pescetarian diet will save so many animals over time, it is much preferable to a full meat eating diet.

Plus, as I've said before, it isn't my place, or, sorry, your's to judge. Would I make every human being on the planet veg if I could? In a heartbeat! But, sadly, I can't. So, when I can, IF someone asks why I'm veg, I let them know, in as well researched and cohesive a manner as I can, because I have learned, over many, many years, that most of the reasons I have for being veg will make no difference to them, so I need to make sure my arguments are meaningful to the general public, because most will only ask once. And, I'm very, very proud to say, I've actually converted some people to becoming veg in my life, without being pushy or seeking it out :). One of my proudest accomplishments.

Johnty:

My husband (who ate meat) and I traveled extensively through Europe, and you can tell your daughter, Rome was one of the places where I had the most problems, strangely. I did not eat eggs while in Europe, because I could never be sure they were not fertilized, and I had become quite tired of pasta. One night, I asked if they could just make a plain salad for me in a restaurant. The chef actually came out to ask me why I was requesting something not on the menu, and when I told him I was vegetarian, he wanted to know why. I told him I was Hindu, and he immediately pulled a cross out from under his shirt, loudly proclaimed to the entire restaurant that he was Catholic and ate meat, and said I had to leave his restaurant, he would not serve me! One of the most stunning experiences of my life!! And I later lived in very meat heavy France (where I quickly learned that I had to tell them I did not eat meat, chicken, fish, shrimp, ham, lard or eggs to make sure I covered everything they considered acceptable for a vegetarian lol).

And, by the way, although my husband ate meat, and I had no problem with him doing that, his choice, he was completely in favor of us raising our son vegetarian. I never asked him not to, but he chose not to eat meat in front of him, which I greatly appreciated and respected him for (although we never hid it from our son, he just preferred not to eat meat in front of him).

And I've allowed my son to decide if he would remain vegetarian when he became old enough. He is now 16, and is as fanatical a veg as I am (and I'm soooo grateful! lol), but I felt that had to be his individual decision as well, and I would NEVER have let him know it would have disappointed me in any way if he had decided to eat meat. Again, I feel that has to be an individual choice, and one that has to be respected by everyone else. I'm sure there are people here who think I'm ridiculous for that, but just my opinion.

I've lived in Europe all of my life and have not found it difficult to be vegetarian.
Most restaurants have a few vegetarian options on their menus.
Veganism is a different matter.

I lived in Paris from 1989-1990. It may be much easier now (I've heard from friends it is); it was not very easy then. Italy was definitely not easy then, although most other countries were.

That being said, there are places in the US where it is definitely not easy to be vegetarian, at least not to eat out and be veg (I'm thinking of specific places in the south now, where they do not like to cook a vegetable without meat and fat lol).

Pescetarians might be moved by this short video: (btw, nothing nasty happening to fish here...)

https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/funny-an...210000815.html

I very much used to like eating fish. I also knew it was 'healthy' food. But now....I can't. I worried about Omega 3, but there is a good supplement which is totally vegan, called "Opti-3."
It sounds expensive for a supplement, but I worked out the cost of this per week and it is cheaper, or about the same as what I used to spend on fresh/canned fish per week.

The affection of this fish in the video reminds me of a pet like a cat or dog....and how could we eat one of those?

Tobi:

I love this video! I wish everyone who ate fish could see this!

Personally i think your stand is beautiful, brave, and selfless.

This sort of takes it off topic but i am currently 4 days meat free. (Although one day i had a soup and had absolutely no idea it contained chicken broth lol) i usually don't get offended because i do not share the strong feelings veg's do about this lifestyle but i was talking to a friend about my mistake and her boyfriend said vegetarians need to lighten the hell up. And then tried to make it seem like the process of making the broth was harmless and i was like it's not like the chicken went for a swim and we drank that water! Uuuggghhhh defensive omnivores (usually call themselves carnivores) are just as bad as in-your-face veg's. What is your response to "we were made to eat meat. We are omnivores"

Jinivha, Thank you so much! I can't tell you how much I appreciate that!!

Congrats on going meat free!! I've heard the beginning can be really difficult!! It can take a while and some careful deciphering to be sure you are not getting meat; even then, many times I'll grill a waiter or waitress, be assured there is no meat in something, usually soup, take one bite, and I can tell instantly there is a meat broth (it is so foreign to me). I'll call them over to let them know and they simply shrug, showing me it's no big deal to them. My son tells me I should say I'm allergic to meat, they will pay attention then, but I want to get my point across while bringing attention to the plight of vegetarians, and I feel that defeats the purpose lol.

As for the "we were made to eat meat" argument, I just go with the host of diseases and artery clogging related ailments eating meat brings on, which proves, without any doubt, we were NOT intended to eat meat. We are "supposed" to be superior, and can discern the advantages of a healthier diet, if we choose not to follow it, and eat meat, like the other omnivores out there, aren't we just lowering ourselves to their level? (I have no problem with being on the same level, but I'll bet those meat eaters do lol)

When I talk about trying to be vegetarian people quickly get upset. I don't understand why they feel so strongly against it. I never felt that way even before I wanted to try it myself. My family especially hated on vegans. I guess it's one of those guilty conscience excuses people come up with or something because it's not like vegetarians/vegans do anything to harm them lol I was always curious why people chose it and how it effected them. When I started to look into some more new age spiritual beliefs I saw a lot of people talk about how much vegetarianism changed them. I have wanted to try it ever sense. That was maybe two years ago and it has taken this long for me to finally jump into it. I am quickly understanding the protein issue though. There is no way I can continue to live my lifestyle while being a HEALTHY vegetarian. I am having a hard time with it but I am determined to learn how I can continue this. The way I see it, there is a huge community that is able to successfully live this lifestyle so why shouldn't I be able to do it as well.

People who eat meat get very defensive with vegetarians and vegans. Their discomfort makes them engage in a lot of unpleasant behaviors, including ridicule and deceit.

Humans are not omnivores. We are herbivores and our physiology proves it.
Here's a link to a synopsis of the facts.

There are other articles about the same thing and you can search for more information. (I just used humans are herbivores not carnivores and grabbed one of the first links I was familiar with.)

All of my friends are meat eaters. The biggest question I get is "how do you get your protein?" When I tell them that plant and seed protein is much healthier than animal, I get stared at. One fellow in his 70's asked me about it. He has had 2 heart bypass surgeries. I told him that broccoli was a favorite of mine to get protein. I told him to google it. He did, and the next time I saw him, he was completely amazed and started eating more broccoli and less meat.

I am very respectful of people's choices. I may not care for what they put in their mouth, but I do care what goes in mine. Change seems to be difficult for people that have done the same thing all of their lives. Some grasp it, some don't. I tend to chalk it up to where they are in their soul evolution.

Thank you! I will look into that! :)

I know that when looking into proteins you have to make sure to get all of the amino acids including lysine (I think that is what it is called) which is particularly difficult in vegetarian proteins but not at all impossible. I haven't been focusing hard enough on making sure to get the protein I need and I am already feeling it's effects but I am trying to do this right. It is just requiring an entire change of the way I do food lol

Please, please don't buy into the protein myth. There's no such thing as a protein deficiency unless you are literally starving. Everything has protein. There is nothing at all difficult in getting each amino acid with even a really bad vegetarian diet (assuming it's not 100% junk food).

The Protein Myth - PCRM

Slaying the Protein Myth

Three Myths About Protein

There is a wealth of information about protein online. Just do a search using protein myth and you'll find more than you can imagine.

:smile:

I don't buy into the animal protein requirements, but I do know my body does better with plant/seed protein. I could not function well on lettuce alone. I need my beans and seeds. When I was doing triathlon training I had to eat plenty of beans and seeds because my body required it. I think it all depends on the activity level and the needs of the individual.

Thank you :) I guess I have a lot of research to do lol

A lot of the propaganda, esp about tofu, etc, is actually put out by the meat industry. My husband was also Indian, but adopted by American parents. When I was pregnant with my son, we agreed to carefully research what was healthier and found, without a doubt, a vegetarian diet was much healthier (and my obstetrician was originally completely anti veg). Even with my ethical beliefs, I would never have done anything that would have put my child in any danger, esp since we knew he would be premature.

That being said, I didn't really have any doubts going into it lol. You can't have a whole country like India, where the majority of people are vegetarian, and not have it be a healthy diet.

There are combinations foods that give you specific amino acids and proteins, by the way, but you really don't have to be as worried as you seem to think. Do you think most meat eaters plan their menus around every possible protein combo?

Just make sure you include some vitamins. B complex is essential, and magnesium. That's all I can think of, and, of course, a good multi :).

Why do i need vitamins if i'm eating a balanced diet?

Vegetarians lack those things, they are the things we do not get in our diets. I've checked very carefully (& I'm diabetic, so I have to be extra careful & have checked w/my endocrinologist) & been told those are the only things we naturally can't get, B super complex & magnesium. And everyone should take a good multi, every dr has always told me that. By the way, when I first found out I was diabetic, the first dr I saw & the endocrinologist both told me immediately that if I would consider a vegetarian diet it would add years to my life. I was very happy to tell them that was no problem :smile:

I may confused, so please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that vegetarians and vegans can't get magnesium and the B vitamins from the foods we eat?

If so, that's wrong. Green leafy vegetables are chock full of magnesium and the B vitamins. (Ha! I tried to abbreviate that using just the capital letter B followed by a lower-case s. The forum won't let it go through because it looks like the abbreviation for male bovine feces.)

I'm not saying we shouldn't supplement. As I've posted before, I think we should, but I think everyone should because of depleted nutrients and the levels of toxins in our air, water and soil (and thus, our food). And certainly, some of us need to supplement for individual health needs, but that's not because we're veg*ns.

Actually, you're right, they do, but from what I've been told those are the things we will always be lacking. I've been told we should always take them. I don't know if it is something everybody is deficient in, or just vegetarians,/vegans but the way it's been put to me is vegetarians/vegans should take it (and I've been told that by a couple of pharmacists and dr's).

I've never heard or read that anywhere, Kiran. I've searched and haven't found anything that even suggests such a thing. If they believe it's necessary, I hope it's not a misguided notion that veg*ns are, by the nature of their food choices, deficient in any nutrients. I hope that it's because they either know or have a personal opinion that everyone can benefit from those supplements.

An aside: I don't believe everything I hear from physicians or pharmacists. I've been told bizarre and untrue things by both and many people I know have had similar encounters. I always do my own checking, double-checking and second and third opinion-getting.

Really? Those are the two things I've been told for years both me and my son need to take. When I don't take them, esp the B complex, I get sores around my mouth, sort of like little cuts on the sides? I'll get them within a few days. They go away within a few days of me taking the B vitamins again, so I try never to run out now.

And when I just googled it, it said that vegetarians and vegans have a very high risk of B12 deficiency, which is quite dangerous?

B12 deficiency in vegans is also a myth. There are a lot of persistent myths about vegetarianism and veganism. It was once believe that we could only get B12 from animal sources. We now know this isn't true. Sadly, even many physicians haven't gotten the word.

As I've said... Someone may need supplementation for various nutrients, but this is an individual thing, not because the person is veg*n. I have to take high doses of iron because my body simply does not utilize iron properly. I've been iron-deficient since I was a child and it has nothing whatever to do with diet. It wouldn't be possible to even eat enough food to supply the iron my body needs. Two days without iron and my hair starts to fall out, I am unable to sleep (at all), RLS starts and more. But this is about me, not about my being vegan.

If you do a search with the term B12 myth vegans, you'll find a wealth of information on why and how this is a myth and why it persists. You'll also find that humans generally store B12 for about a year and we need very little of it.

Here's one place with information to get you started. But don't stop there. There are plenty of sources and resources with good information.

:smile: