ambiguous terms vegan/vegetarian
 

you know what i'm tired of. the current understanding of food, and how we create labels like vegetarian and vegan, which still include foods that are maladaptive for your light, voice, solar plexus, sacral, and third eye. I exclude crown because the optimal option to activate your crown is fasting and giving up the idea that food should be tasty, creamy and velvety with an extra large diet soda.

Certain principles apply to the following diet, which I believe is ideal for achieving the ultimate balance between the chakra system.

I'm not going to give it a name. Come up with your own.

-No coffee or stimulants. Water.

-Avoid the following. Cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, kale, etc...).
Things like radishes that have that nasty after taste.
Processed foods because i'm certain things go into the food behind closed doors and walls that contain things that people would never eat. I sometimes wonder what kind of food meat goes into...with the current structure of ties and policy for food and food manufacturing that is quite sickening.
I'm pretty sure if you knew what went into that chineses buffet creamy chicken like meat from many sources you wouldnt eat it.
-Avoid alcohol

-Top foods

Carrot sticks, Chickpeas, Oats, Apples, mango, watermelon, pineapple, kiwi, RASPBERRIES

Turmeric, cumin seeds, Celtic Sea Salt and Fresh Black pepper.

Eat this way and treat food as nothing more then energy.

Watch what happens.

Eat twice a day. Eat small portions. Snack on fruits.

Well vegan and vegetarian diets don't tell you anything about health, just what foods they do not eat. They are useful terms for food labels, restaurants, and when other people want to know or need to know in case they prepare a meal. Of course vegan and vegetarian meals can be unhealthy..

Foods and drinks definitely have a spiritual component. If you really want to go completely 'spiritual' (as in asceticism...) then an organic vegan diet is most likely best, coupled with minimal exercise as you'd do meditation for hours a day, so you'd be low on carbs and protein as well, and would eat mostly fruits, nuts, seeds, and vegetables. There's some mentioning of it in the bible and of course also the eastern religions. For most of us who also want to do other things in life (exercise, sex, stimulation, etc.) that isn't optional or appealing, however I very much respect any person that really goes all the way dedicating life to spirituality practically.

Hi naturewalker. You already gave it a name, you used very specific identifiers such as:

foods that are maladaptive for your light
giving up the idea that food should be tasty, creamy and velvety
ideal for achieving the ultimate balance between the chakra system

I've been eating nothing but fruit and vegetables since 2011. I don't call myself anything because I don't like labels. I eat what I eat. But neither do I label my diet anti-maladaptive, or anti-tasty, or chakra-enhancing. I eat that which makes me feel the best, and that doesn't cause digestion issues.

Religious and spiritual beliefs have a way of sneaking into every thing we do, and very often in the form of hardened do's and dont's. Those do's and dont's, to me, are exactly the same as labels. Stating that only certain foods, eaten in certain amounts, will evolve your chakra or what have you, is labeling.

Eat what feels right and good. Be truthful to your body, and honest about what you consume. That's all one needs to do. There are no rules beyond that, because those are the same rules that apply to every human action and deed, and not just one's diet.

EDIT: I just checked your profile. You state you love creamy waffles. That certainly sheds light on the multiple "creamy" references in your post! What I don't understand though is, doesn't your love of creamy waffles, go against everything you spoke to in that post? It doesn't matter to me one way or the other what you love to eat, I'm just asking because it seems such an odd contradiction.

I don't know. Why do you care so much about the language I choose to use?

"Be truthful to your body". Feel the desire to eat maladaptive taco bell and go for the grand slam

Okay, that was some kind of aggressive response, I guess you have something against casual conversational replies, oh dear! Have a great day naturewalker.

Naturewalker,

I’m not sure I follow your rationale here as to vegan ambiguity.

Without a clear and agreed-upon term like “vegan” how will we come to collective understanding about what is ordered and what will be served?

If I start in on chakras when I’m ordering I think I’m going to get a lot of confused thousand-yard stares. If you start Naturewalker’s Chakratarian Movement then isn’t that just a new label?

Best regards and may the only raspberries you eat be uppercase ones,

Northern Seeker

PS. I’ve been vegan for 12 years for ethical reasons. Animals are some of my favorite people.

PPS. I’m not sure I want to know what a “creamy spit waffle” is... ;)

I know quite a lot about nutrition, and I'm telling you: you gave here terrible eating recommendations. Don't do it, and don't promote it!

:) Very funny, and exactly the point I was attempting to make.I read this, and the question I have is why is it important to be so specific that one's diet requires a label such as vegan? Wouldn't it be okay to come up with a list of healthy dietary options that might even include a few things that aren't vegan? One person I know for example has a diet that is almost all vegan, but still loves having fish a couple times a week.

Baile,

Your question is a good example of the importance of language specificity that we were discussing on that other thread yesterday (see “All the Hobbits...”).

If I went into a restaurant and said “Garçon, please bring me something that you subjectively feel didn’t involve animal cruelty” then who knows just what I might be eating? Fish, because he feels that they don’t experience pain?

Without a precise, generally well understood term (at least in the food industry) like “vegan” then we’d be at the mercy of a thousand cockamamie interpretations.

Northern Seeker

Okay I hear you. Now, you strive for precision in your communication, so let me respond with this: I thought (and I may be wrong) that this thread and discussion had to do with foods and diet routines that are healthy. Fish isn't cockamamie, most people and even spiritual experts consider it healthy and necessary. I don't eat it, but I understand why others would.

You appear interested in a vegan only discussion. So how is that not "labeling" as well? I was saying all labels can be dropped, and that a general list of healthy foods can be put together. Then if you're vegan, just don't follow the list's fish suggestion for example.

Baile,

Points taken - and apologies if I've veered off-topic into the Twilight Zone talking about the term "vegan" in a thread titled "ambiguous terms vegan/vegetarian" in a forum titled "Vegetarian & Vegan" ;)

Mayhaps we aren't really differing too much here:

Should there be a list of foods? Check!

Should people with specific diets / beliefs know which of the list they can eat and which they can't? Check!

Can there be agreement as to which foods are healthy and which aren't? Not in a million, trillion years. Not even after a thousand suns have heat-died and warring factions of Singularity-Bots have long concluded their scrabble over kingdoms of stardust.

Can anyone agree which foods came from sentient persons and thus should be avoided by people that don't eat people? See previous answer.

I think nutrition is the foundation of health and it is best to understand the body's optimum nutrient requirements and what foods contain those nutrients. From there one can ensure that they ingest adequate protein, fats and essential vitamins and minerals. Vegans run a high risk of inadequate nutrition such as protein and essential micro-nutrients, so it is especially important for vegans to have proper knowledge in nutrition. Other than that, people are by and large ignorant abut nutrition, which makes them susceptible to all sorts of marketing ploys, including spiritual nutrition nonsense. It is amazing that all people are not taught about proper nutrition as we should be leaving school practically as experts in it.

naturewalker's huge list is legit. of course.

LOL. You know, I missed that. In my screen displaying the list of forums, this thread topic reads as "ambiguous terms..." and that's it. I honestly didn't see the vegan/vegetarian part. Yes, discuss what a vegan/vegetarian is if needs must! I'm going to go ponder what it is that's ambiguous about either, as well as how confusing all this is to me.

Yes, very legit points if you are a vegan or vegetarian. That said, I Googled "Healthy Foods To Eat" and got 436,000,000 hits. Apparently it is possible to discuss such subjects and even compile lists with suggestions. The mountains do not have to crumble to the sea before we can come to some general place of recognition and understanding.

Which is why I say that labels like "chakra-enhancing" and "vegan" will only limit any discussion. You won't end up with a list of healthy foods, you will end up with a list of healthy food suggestions for one small group of people only. But since this is a thread for vegans and people who enjoy waffles on occasion, I guess that's that.

Most of the 'health food' rhetoric is a myth, but of course fresh unprocessed foods are generally more nutritious than processed calorie dense foods with little nutritional value. But, for example, if a diet is deficient in fat, a pack of crisps would be more nutritious than steamed potato...



People usually overlook the essentials of nutrition because vitamins are the most promoted nutrients, but the way I look at nutrition is in the familiar food triangle shape, though I organise it differently.


On the foundation, or the base of the triangle is 'CALORIES', which is the energy quantity. The body needs energy to operate so getting enough fuel is the 'bottom line'.


The next level up on the triangle above calories is 'MACRO NUTRIENTS' which are fat, protein and carbohydrates. These three contain (just about) all the calories. Getting the right amount of protein, fat and carbs is how calories are properly distributed into the right 'fuel mixture'.


The next level up on the triangle is MICRONUTRIENTS, which are all the vitamins and minerals, and basically, a few handfuls of different coloured fruit and veg a day should provide what is necessary.


The next level up is MEAL FREQUENCY, which is how many meals one eats in a day and when they eat them. Some like 6 small meals and others like 2 large meals. It doesn't matter so that's just 'what works best for you'. What does matter is the three aspects mentioned above are included in said meal frequency plan.


At the top of the triangle is SUPPLEMENTS. There is no point taking supplements if the four lower tiers are not established. Supplements do not replace food. However, most people would have a nutrient deficiency and the right supplimentation would optimise their nutrition - and this is especially true for vegans, who have inadequate sources of B12 vitamins for example.


Should a person wish to optimise their nutrition, see a qualified professional dietician. Do not ascribe to spiritual stuff promoted by people who have no proper knowledge in nutrition.

You toss that jab into your comments a lot, seemingly as a middle finger to the spiritual crowd. Heaven help that a spiritual person posting on a spiritual forum dare to make suggestions. Yes, let's just follow the advice of the typical and non-spiritual "nutritional expert" as you say, who tells us a proper diet includes milk, eggs and meat.

Not to mention you're telling people to eat processed junk food rather than a potato, because the processed junk food would be... more nutritious?! I know you're not spiritual, you've made that clear for years now. But it seems you need to refine your do-not-ascribe comment to also include people who don't dabble in spiritual stuff. Junk food more nutritious than a potato....

Of course, a professional dietician would not recommend animal options for vegans, but suggest vegan options.



Being spiritual does not qualify anyone to give dietary advice (The OP is proof enough of that).



On the contrary, I said fresh unprocessed food is generally best, caveat being, the fat content of crisps is more nutritious than a boiled potato if a person was deficient in dietary fats.






I pointed out how nutrition is structured into calories, macronutrients, micronutrients, meal frequency, and finally supplementation (which is particularly important for vegans).