I wouldn't put up with that!
 

I have been reading lots of stories by NDE'rs In which they go to the heaven/ The Divine Realm. They seem so happy and at peace there, and wish to stay. Suddenly they are told they have to go back to their bodies to suffer for the sake of fulfilling some spiritual obligation/purpose.

I am just thinking if it were me and my guides/higher self/the divine/God told me I had to leave paradise and return to my body. I would tell them to go (edited). If this spiritual assignment is so important to you, "Why don't you go and do it yourself!?" I quit!

I get so irate thinking about that! Here are these holy beings floating around in absolute bliss telling us to do their bidding? Yeah right. What kind of worthless guides are they? :cussing:

edited by staff.

It would help with some examples to gain some knowledge of what we are talking about...

Well...maybe it's not exactly their bidding.Maybe it's just that they see what's actually happening and when they say "you can't stay, you have to go" it's because they can see at that moment that the link with the person's physical (body and Earth assignment) isn't severed?

Na, when we so call die, its finished, the mind body organism is no more, your life story also is finished, except for those who carry it on,. but then its only a story. Other bodies appear, all spanking new, not carrying the past of another body, or so called soul.

Well if it's not their bidding then they should mind their own business and not try to run my afterlife.

Greetings to you All,

Well, Tera, the idea of incarnating on dear ol' Planet Earth is to learn how to conquer all things pertaining to a physical way of life. One of the ways of doing that is to learn from our mistakes - and by that I mean the bucking of the universal laws set aside by God when it was created.

Another way is to learn from all those who have gone before us: and by that I mean people/souls who have passed all their physical exams and no longer have to incarnate down here any more. This does not mean that they sit on Cloud Nine playing harps for the rest of eternity, oh no! To pass these very hard Planet Earth lessons these souls had to learn to love every single person no matter who they are, no matter what crimes they have commited. They also had to learn to love all life forms by doing their best never to harm any living creature or being.

When all these things, and others, have been learned and they can now stay in 'Heaven - shall we say' that love for all life becomes a desire to continue to help those who are still incarnating, those who still have lessons to learn and pass - just as they were helped when they too were going through many and hard Earthly lives.

So, when a person, or soul, has a 'Near Death Experience' and it is explained to them by these advanced souls that it is better for them to return to Planet Earth to continue their pre-planned life until it finally comes to its natural end it is always done though the spiritual knowledge these spiritually advanced souls have learned and gained through their Earthly lives.

Also, and this is worth remembering, when someone has a 'Near Death Experience' they always talk about being surrounded by total Peace, Love and Joy. And it is this spiritual Peace, Love and Joy that so fills them when they visit the other side that helps them to understand why it is they are being advised to return to Planet Earth to fulfill their allotted life span until their natural bodily death - and to learn the spiritual lessons they must learn so that they too, one day, will be able to advise other less advanced souls as they are now being advised. And this advice is given by and through total love.

Hope this helps.

:

Maybe what you say is true but I still believe in an afterlife. :wink:

I don't care what the Universal lessons are. I don't want to go to school!

HAHA:D You have a point! They should shut up or at least have the grace to say "...don't look now....but looks like something's cooo-miiing!...." (SPLAT! Back to the body...)
:cya:

oowww! The Pain! :D

This was the funniest thread I have read on here LOOOOOOOOL

I tend to think that they are doing OUR bidding... reminding us of things we've forgotten. They are looking out for us, helping us to fulfill the choices we've already made.
In my estimation, life is eternal; there is no "afterlife", death is illusory.
Death, "true" death, is nothingness -- "nothingness" cannot be experienced.

Yea Yea, well said.:smile:

thanks psychoslice, i was thinking that we were at very different vantage points.
There are people who advocate achieving "nothingness", through meditation. I don't oppose the concept, it's just not "accurate" --
the pure essence that they achieve is indeed not "nothing".

Because you say so? :dontknow:

I see this so called nothingness, as eveything, the nothingness that is everything is where all arises from.

It's a nice theory. I in fact know someone who did tell them off. Still, outnumbered by more powerful beings, he went back none the less. He has since had more NDEs, same result. Now he rails about being unable to die. So go ahead, vent all you want, that is not going to change anything.

So what was keeping him physically alive? It wasn't powerful Beings telling him this or that, it was his own Soul and Spirit needing to have a physical experience for some reason.

No, not at all. The "experiencer" is still there. That's not "nothing".
Apparently, people who've had profound "out of body" experiences, or somesuch,
relate that they feel "greater connectedness", or "pure communication",
without the roadblocks or obstructions that I/we commonly encounter in "everyday life".
I suggest that this is not nothingness.

I'm kinda approaching the idea from a "mathematical" standpoint. Physics tells us
that "matter cannot be destroyed" -- it can be transformed into another state.
It seems to me that the essence of a being (such as myself), cannot simply dissolve into "nothingness".
I tend to agree with psychoslice, that the nothingness is more
likely everythingness... absence of nothing.
Does that make sense?
Yet, I feel that the Physical Realm of reality is "true", and not simply an illusion.

Yes that make sense but only if we approach it from a dualistic view point I think. In oneness there simply is no separation in the way I experience it so nothingness and everythingness is the same. My mythology of Nothing describes that everything is nothing with the possibility of being anything and that makes it everything. At least that is the statement for now. It is not an absolute Mythology and if it has to change then it will change, yet it will not change just for the sake of changing.

The thing is that even if the physical realm of reality is an illusion it is hard to argue that the illusion is not real. We sense it each and every day so of course it is real and the question simply might be how it is real. Or maybe we call it an illusion simply because it is not an absolute world; meaning it is quite adaptable to the individual. I have a theory that all of us live in individual worlds blending together creating a shared world and the world simply is fluid and will change with the change of those sharing it. And one could also argue that even the oneness is an illusion just more delightful for some - simply an escape from the world of the mind. Or that oneness is simply the existence of one's world in complete balance and that the illusion is that one feels out of balance. There is many adventures for one to journey out on. Wondrous worlds to explore and amazing treasures to be found :tongue:

I like your post; it's kinda deep, both "affirming" and "challenging".

If I were to pick a single thread to explore further, it would be the part about: "just more delightful for some".
I would like that everyone (including myself!) have access to delight. I would like that everyone
be able to have mastery over their own being -- true free-will.
Is this a skill? Is this an "acceptance"?

I love the tales of neverland and especially this part from the Almighty Wikipedia: The novel further explains that the Neverlands are compact enough that adventures are never far between. It says that a map of a child's mind would resemble a map of Neverland, with no boundaries at all. So maybe creating delight is the realization of one's neverland, which could be seen as a removal of all the things within that blocks you like doubt, struggle and so on. And acceptance is simply a key to abundance as struggle seem to be a block of sorts. So when we accept and surrender to our circumstances then we make room in ourselves to blossom within. That the energy we use to struggle simply can be put to better use.

Maybe some NDE is a visit to one's inner neverland, showing you how wonderful things can be if you let them. And you simply get told to leave because there is no place to stay. That there simply is no neverland (/heaven) outside of yourself and traveling to other worlds like the one we describe as the afterlife does not bring it forth.

Hmm. Someplace else on this forum, there's a thread that declares things like: "joy and abundance spring naturally from a mind at peace"
[or words to that effect]. Your description of Neverland seems in accord with that.

I really love this concept, that somehow we are guided to our inner self instead of reaching something outside of ourself. I remember reading an analogy of God as a loving parent who gives us all the tools we need for happiness (I think it was from Conversations With God)- that we have everything we need inside of us. When I consider that, I think how loving the universe must be to gently point us to within, again and again.

And how stubborn we can be to not regocnize our own greatness :tongue: For myself I never understood this talk about ascension, about lifting yourself to some higher place of existence. When I found the concept of Chthonic Awakening that talks about the Underworld being the place where your soul/spirit dwell made much more sense. So basically it suggested that you had to descend into the depth of yourself to find your essense, meaning in my understanding that you already have all the pieces to make a masterpiece out of yourself :D

I've never heard of Chthonic awakening before (...*googles*) but I think that's pretty much what I'm doing right now in my spiritual development...like shamanic practice or soul retrieval...going into myself...we're like little balls of putty assimilating energy and putting it back 'out'...hmmm...I think the judgemental slant of certain terms (like 'higher self' and 'underworld' etc) are really unhelpful when it comes to understanding what is really going on...ultimately something is only 'good' or 'bad' depending on our perception of it...but if it's all part of us why pretend it isn't? (I realise the irony of that statement given what I said in another thread!)

There are three things which support each other, and which contrast psycho's statement.

1. The ancient spiritual teachings.

2.Modern science today, and since Einstein, is telling us what the true nature of the material world is.
( "Illusory". )

3. The very many anecdotal NDE accounts also.
Which today because of an open atmosphere and due to modern rescusitation techniques, have proliferated.

But St. Paul tells us of his NDE also in the Bible, in 2 Corinthians 12. (Stemming from the event described in Acts 14:19.)
Which agrees in theme with modern NDE accounts.

Then there also is 1 Corinthians 13. The, "Love Chapter". Which aligns also with modern desciptions of people's NDE's.

I understand the frustration but human experience is a challenge, it flat out is miserable at times, but I guess we all came here without the guarantee it was going to be a blissful breeze all of the time. I know we are dealt exactly what we need or can handle but sometimes it is faith that is our only saving grace. I was going through a miserable time and transcended into a higher realm and my guides mentioned things to be this way and other's free will have messed things up. I don't remember more but I returned to my body more at peace. Nothing has changed but they hear you, trust me.

:smile: There are only two certainties in this world one is to be born the other is to pass away (go back home),i have had three near death experiences so far in my life everytime i say i dont want to go back to here.its usualy my grandmother or my guide i see.everytime im told its not my time that i have still work to do here. we are all here to learn i always say the world is the classroom.when we go back home we dont stop learning there are halls of learning there,i know i walk my final path i wont be back again,but i have also lived many lifetimes before,
if you dont want to continue to learn when we go back to spirit we dont have to.the choice is ours to make.

Namaste

I've worked with a number of people who have had NDE. When they are told "you need to return" it is not out of a desire to punish. There is something they need to do, a purpose to fulfill. They all brought something back with them which made their life easier. That something was a deep feeling and certainty of being loved. They want to fulfill their purpose.

I can understand how you feel especially if you're life is very difficult. Coming back would feel, from where you are now, a burden and punishment. Almost like showing a 3-year old an ice cream cone and then saying, "Na, na, na, you can't have it."

If it happened to you you might have a completely different experience.

Even though this post is from January ...
I would like to say that I agree w/the above ...
Near death is as it is termed; it is not complete death ...
The choice was made to incarnate to experience human life; it simply needs to be completed/tasks need to be finished including those that are for the benefit of others ...

Both my cousin & ex-SIL both have said they had a NDE ...
Apparently, neither got the message like your clients ... :wink:
The continue to make others miserable w/their words, actions & misdeeds ... :icon_frown:
It's too bad & so sad they didn't visit someone like yourself to learn to appreciate or understand it ...
They both truly believe whatever they do is God's will ...

Well Tera's Party, you had to have been there. By the way not everyone goes to this place of bliss. There are accounts of people going to more negative and dark dimensions, read Howard Storm. During an NDE in the higher levels of consciousness many are give what it call "universal knowledge", they seem to have access to the akashic records. At this time they understand that before being born there was an agreement to experience certain things. If you leave before that time you are sent back, it seems you can't break your contract. I often say to myself "what as I thinking coming down to this dreary and sometimes frightening place"? Unfortunately when you return all that knowledge is taken away because with it you can't play the game of life.

psychoslice, if there is nothing after physical death can you please explain the phenomenon of the Near Death Experience.

Sorry, I must confess I haven't read every post, so might have missed something.

But, has anyone considered the the reason to fight death, might not be some profound soul lesson that we haven't learned yet, it might be something more like that there are people that depend on us?

I nearly died a few weeks ago. I didn't have a near death experience in the sense that we're on about here, but I did actually nearly die. I saw someone running for the defibrillator as I passed out, then no memory of anything til I woke up to find I was full of pipes and wires and being loaded into an ambulance. All I could think about was that I have a wife and two young kids, and the house is not yet paid for, it is on a mortgage, and I am the only earner in the household, and in any case, the kids are too young to lose their dad.

So, there was no spooky spirits telling me I have to go back, there was just me, telling me I have to hang on in there.

Wow Badger! I hope that you are OK now, and your health is better?

I once had a scrape during a serious road accident. I had a loss of time, and a brilliant white light, but no other classical NDE experiences. The whole thing was surreal, and not all unpleasant (weirdly) then I just found myself running covered in blood away from the cars.

From what I know it's you who decides. Like for example, there was one lady who didn't want to go back and someone explained to her why she should and she agreed with that (but she said that I don't remember the reason now, but I knew that I had to go back). So it wasn't them forcing her, it was her realizing that she needs to, for her own sake. But again, consciously we may disagree because we are not aware of the reason.

AND, it's about gaining the right perspective. From here, from Earth, it seems kind of pointless to come back here. But once you're there and learn the reason why you're here you'll understand yourself why you need to be here and you'll agree to go (even though you may not remember that reason consciously) and may ask yourself consciously: why did I even agree to go back?

It also could be something like this: it's like you were reaching a point of evolution and you just had to learn one more little thing and you would take off and enter the next stage. But if you didn't go back, you would have to redo this whole journey, wouldn't be able to take off very soon... so it would be like waiting an opportunity

yes, we are all a part of the web. And if one link is missing, the others will suffer too. So in this sense, yes, it's also for those who are here that we would have to stay.

However, understanding this may not make some people want to stay. It's their decision ultimately. So they can do what they want, ultimately. It's like giving your child a choice: to go to a party and be a bad person in your eyes or not to go and make you happy? The child may choose to do the opposite of what you want. And because of the free will, I believe it's possible to do what you want. But again, if someone explained to you (but you just don't remember consciously), you may want to choose to do it yourself (even if consciously you wouldn't want to)

i haven't read this whole thread-i'm just responding to this post:

i suspect that between incarnations, we losteour emotional clothing and petty perceptions. it is then we are in a pure spirit state, where we have clarity and wisdom and know what is best for our growth, then choose the next incarnation that will best help us fulfill it. i don't think we are forced to do anything-we still have freedom of choice.

so the emotions one may feel now are not carried over to the spirit state.

of course, that is just my humble opinion.