knocking on heavens door... trying to get to the void, or the dark as you also called it? If we are knocking on it it seems like we haven't found the way to open it...

when i read about tzimtzum it didn't seem to me from the description like god 'created' a space so much as he 'removed' what was already there so there would be room for something else... well that is the way i view it. it seems to me like a subtle yet important distinction.

FWIW the sabbath seems to me to be more of the same, commanded not to do the things we do on all the other days. And don't even move about very much if i recall correctly. Rather than be continuing to 'do' things nonstop...

Theoretically speaking I think darkness is also an absence of light, rather than a presence of the dark... the void you guys are talking about would be more of the same... not a 'presence' of a void but instead an 'absence' of something else...

i wonder sometimes if I'm not supposed to 'get' that the way home isn't through obtaining some nifty neeto thing that gets me home... but rather in doing a variation of this tzimtzum thing and giving up things I've got and maybe even cherish so that I can quit encouraging myself to be everywhere but home? Certainly a case could be made for that through the life and teachings of christ, at least I think so.

FallingLeaves,

Thanks for the response…..:). The subtle distinction does not work for me. This is my reasoning: If God is infinite, space is not a problem….to remove something to create space would seem to imply that God’s realm is finite rather than infinite. Tzimtzum supposes that the space is necessary to allow free will. God’s kingdom is not of this world…..”may thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”. In heaven God’s will is done..there can be no competing wills…:)

Back to the song as parable: ‘Mama’ could just as easily be a metaphor for God. Your mother ushers you into this world and the lyrics are imploring Mama to usher the writer out of this world. Mother has an accepted connotation of love and protector. We can ascribe these same attributes to God.

im honestly not sure how what I said has anything to do with the topic of whether or not god is limited, but if you want to buy into the limitation that it does have fun!

FallingLeaves,

It revolves around your intended meaning of ‘removed’…..either to move to a different place or to obliterate part of creation ? The concept represents the creation of a void within Himself since nothing can exist outside of God. This void is a universe only partly connected to God. Different universes have different rules.

we know from physics that simple motion from one 'place' to another 'place' isn't the only possibility... for example in the general case putting pressure on something makes it 'contract' and cooling something does as well... which would be a way to make a 'space' where none existed before. and from a very practical standpoint, in our 'material' portion of reality you can't put one thing in a place when another thing already exists there... and god did say as above so below... And then there are black holes... unfortunately I don't know much beyond basic physics but it does beg the question as to what else there might be that I don't know about? And even, what might be beyond physics, in the realm of God?

Meanwhile I have enough experience with meditation to be questioning the notion that creating new things is all there is to god's creation...

Perhaps science will answer your questions……..

Molearner, I love what you said about “mama”. I think God and mama go together much better and seems more relevant than always saying “HE”.

I also like Miss H term “the power”.

just because people are involved in vainglorious misrepresentations of reality, doesn't mean they have nothing at all to offer.

A nice view. I say here why such space is needed.

Say, There is only Infinite God's Love everywhere. But, suddenly there arises a "Free will to be away from such Love". As the God's Love is Infinitely everywhere, there is a need of "space" where one can be "free from such Love as a free will to play around". And so this "space" (Kingdom of Thought) is manifested as a "finite" to fulfill our "infinite dreams free from God's Love".

Where there is God's Love Infinite (Kingdom of Heaven), there cannot be a Free will to be free from such Love (Kingdom of Thought) and vice versa.

And so, Ending of Thought is "Kingdom of Heaven everywhere".