Wise doesn’t mean enlightened thou does it?

He's wise to understand that we are already Enlightened :biggrin:

Then please tell me what that is like if you already are?

Amazing all the suffering and addictions in the world with everyone already enlightened.

You need to be wise to understand but here's a little clue :biggrin:

Before enlightenment, chop wood carry water.
After enlightenment, chop wood carry water....

That old zen saying doesn't answer anything :)

If everyone is already enlightened then why meditate? Why all the different traditions.. for what purpose if everyone is already enlightened?

We are not, it is obscured. Which is what all the practices in all the different traditions are about.

Now please tell me what enlightenment is like since you have already achieved it.

Thanks.

" Now please tell me what enlightenment is like since you have already achieved it."


You would have to become un-enlightened to compare notes and explain what it's like, , impossible :biggrin:

It's going to be difficult to gather my random snippets of thought into any coherent post in regards to this, but I will try.

How does a person know for a 100%, infallible certainty that another is enlightened? they can't.

They may have boundless knowledge/wisdom that smells like roses...they may do many acts of charity...publish many books...be kind and generous.

Maybe they are enlightened...or maybe they are just knowledgeable, altruistic, have personal charisma and a good command of language.

Maybe the homeless bum in the street is enlightened...

People say that everybody is already enlightened, but enlightenment, last time I checked was the direct experience of a state of being and not the state itself.

This is where I come undone with Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta and New-Age philosophies...as they all believe that this "Nirvana thing" is purely a mental exercise...in that the mind can experience itself as being the mind, but cannot transcend it into any awareness outside the mental sphere, because nothing 'outside mind' actually exists....i.e solipsism.

From my perspective, the mind is still the ego. It is that which believes "I am Enlightened" or "I am That" or "I have a Buddha-Mind" and these things are still mere concepts and frames of reference TO the mind!

"Enlightenment" is a concept, "Buddha" is a concept, "Shiva" is a concept, "Self" is a concept, "God/Atman" is a concept and yes, "Mind" is also a concept OF itself, so it cannot be actualised through mental gymnastics and philosophical contortions.

This is illustrated beautifully by those who will say; "Shivani cannot be enlightened because she has a temper" and whether I am or not, what makes "having a temper" in any way significant to whether one is enlightened or not? heck, I could just be pretending to 'have a temper' or just acting, like an actor does with no attachment to my current psychological state from the reference of being.

I've gone off track here, but I don't really consider or think that anybody is 'enlightened' or 'unenlightened'...people like Sadguru, Mooji, Ramana Maharishi, Jesus and even Buddha are just people to me and whatever labels are attached...whatever 'respect' is shown...just more conditioning and mental concepts of others who place people within a spiritual hierarchy for whatever personal/human agendas they have for doing so...and those who say "I am Brahman" just go along for the ride and rake in wallet loads of cash.

Religion begins with worship. Due to this, its pride is reduced. If a person does not, then he can not practice any truly teaching.
This will be a simple brain masturbation.

Isn't Buddha nature like a bud that still has to flower?

You know you actually can know if someone is enlightened. With that it is only possible if you are advanced along the path as well.

What is clarity?

Beyond 3rd eye seeing comes a knowing. With such knowing you can know where someone is along the path. Heck I know people that have such clarity they can know your deepest secrets if they wanted. They don’t do that of course but I know people who can tell you about past lives, heck can show you your past lives if they wanted.

Many, many things are possible.

Also, if one is still caught up in anger/attachments you are still in local mind. Enlightenment is beyond such things.

Thank you for your nice post.