i disgree that conciousness can be further developled - merly directed. when directed - our conciousness focuses on one part but then ignores another. therefore trying to achieve a "higher level of conciousness" isnt above anything - its just a "direction" - equal to everything else as you have to ignore phsycal reality to go there.

perhaps i am not wording it properly - lol.

Which is why such generalities like "religious types" and "spiritual types" don't work and don't really address the important questions. I've met religious people who are deeply spiritual, and spiritual people who adhere to their beliefs with religious fervor.

Strickly speaking, any hardened belief system is a form of religion. And spiritual people are often as intent on holding onto their beliefs as people who follow mainstream religion are. The one thing that differentiates those who adhere to belief systems versus the "spiritual types" that Maiya seems to be speaking of, is the understanding that self-realization is the key to achieving god-realization. And that it has nothing to do with belief in biblical-style gods, or messiahs, or UFOs or reptilians races, or whatever other fantasies people care to create and imagine.

There are all sorts of exercises and meditations available to anyone that assist and develop the ability to attain high states of consciousness and spirit awareness. That's not new.

Okay, I see what you mean here. The word "higher" is usually used in this way to describe a "finer" degree of spirit perception, is all. Being able to percieve the less-physical and more-etheric realms, one might put it.

but the excercises often involve ignoring phsycal reality. clearing you mind etc. you ignore part of your conciousness to do so, its directing your conciousness into an area - thus ignoring another.

if anything it is becoming less concious. lol.

Earthly consciousness is not the be all and end all. :smile: I'm a practitioner in the realm of experiential wisdom, so I certainly appreciate the value of our day-to-day experiences. But you yourself started a thread about dream consciousness. So even you know there's great wisdom to be gained in our less-conscious experiences as well. Meditation is no different.

I think shifting consciousness is best. It's like trying to see infront and behind at the same time. Otherwise we would all be doing it if we didn't have to do something differently.

well i guess this is where my belief of spirit comes in - its a bit more of a pragmatic approach to it i guess.

my belief is that there are no realms other than the one we live in right now. it doesnt mean however that spirit doesnt exist.

i guess it comes down like all things of what we each deem as truth and reality. is pushing conciousness into an area that ignores phsycial reality a way of getting to truth? ignoring reality can never get you to truth in my opinion. :smile:

do you know another conciousness that isn't "Earthly" then? lol.

well the other thread was about becoming concious in dreams - therefore becoming able to do anything you want - conciously. lol

dont get me wrong - concentrating on spirit - meditaion it is a useful tool - but its only a useful tool as you come back to reality to practice what you learnt. truth is still "reality" - where you push your conciousness too is not. :D

What I envy that religion seems to create for its followers is community. It is lonely out here when you break away from the heard.

I also appreciate religion for those people who engage it seriously as a path of transformation, seeking to better themselves. It is a slow path, but it is still a path. I can't knock religion when people engage it for self-development. I can knock it for causing people to feel too comfortable with their reflected and parroted understanding. The fuel to go beyond our current understanding comes from its failure to cope with existence. In that sense, the community generated and everyone parroting the same beliefs at each other helps make for a comfortable sleep.