Infinity aka how to fry a human mind

[TheGlow]

I'm hopeful that is my issue not that I am perticularly daft.

So I always think you cannot rationally be an atheist(I've tried) because beyond evolution, and the big bang, beyond the idea that chemicals somehow mutated until life and consiousness just proofed into existence.... even if that were true where did the earth come from, the sun, gravity, space,...we could just go on right I'm preaching to the choir.

However say we add an intelligent creator no matter his/her/it's reason for creating us, has anyone figured out where he/she/it came from?

I can't get my head around no beginning. I'm cool with no end its just the no beginning, no start, no creation thing that messes my head up.

It's gotta be true because if the creator was created that just loops us around again and again to perpetuity because the original creator will give us the exact same confusion, where did the original creator come from.... Chicken or egg is nothing.

So either there was no beginning or we don't exist. I'm sure I exist in some form even if this mortal form is a projection so that leads me back to there being no beginning. I feel crazy just typing that.

Anyone perfectly grasp the no beginning consept? Care to chill my brain out by explaining how you made peace with it?

[Joshua33]

Hello TheGlow,

The argument that you are referring to is what is called the Cosmological argument, it is a "circular argument." It stems from Aristotle's idea of the 'Prime Mover,' as in the first cause that initiated all that is in existence (Big Bang). But then the question becomes, what was the cause of the 'first cause,' according to our laws, every effect must have a preceding cause. This is difficult to answer, and has drawn people away from God and towards empiricism and science, simply because they cannot prove through deductive logic, his existence; therefore, they decided to only assume true what can be proven to be so; hence the turn towards materialism. This is a difficult question, I don't have the answer.You can ask a question, but that doesn't mean that it deserves an answer. I'm assuming God is pure Energy and Love, and a representation of the highest state of self-awareness possible. He may have always been and always will be.

I have attempted to take an intentionality approach before, as in, humans cannot manipulate matter to create an object in reality unless they have both Mind and Intentionality. Since we are objects in objective reality, and ones infinitely more complex than anything humans have created, then we too must have been created by a Greater Mind with Intentionality. Nothing just pops into existence, we know this from our own knowledge of the world. Things must be created. I think that all is Mind; and that our subjective minds are tributaries of The Mind, and also connected to each others. The world is an illusion, it is similar to the Matrix, and it's design is grandiose, and astonishing. If you look at an apple, you'll see that it's Red (usually), has a consistent shape, and a stem. But it is really only a composition of billions or more of infinitesimal particles that are 99.999% empty space in a state of cohesion and vibration. The Strong force holds the molecules together, but why do they keep forming in consistent shapes? Why do you not see an opaqueness or motion? This is because the mind render's reality in some way, it's an illusion. And the only thing, as Descartes suggested in the 17th century, that exists, is your Mind. He came to this conclusion after doubting everything he assumed to be true, himself, God, reality; and after meditation, he came to the conclusion that the world could be an illusion, but for sure, his thoughts were his own; "I think, therefore I am," he famously proclaimed. In his Second Meditation he said, brilliantly:

“But there is a deceiver of supreme power and cunning who is deliberately and constantly deceiving me. In that case I too undoubtedly exist, if he is deceiving me; and let him deceive me as much as he can, he will never bring it about that I am nothing so long as I think that I am something. So after considering everything thoroughly, I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind. (14)”

You can have a personal connection with God. But first you must open all of your Chakra's. This is not easy. You must transcend your egotistical perspective, your identification with race and nationality; and recognize humanity as One organism on One planet. Also, you must develop compassion and most importantly righteous intent. Only the worthy open their Crown Chakra's. These are the ones who have "ascended" in the past. Once you can do this, there is no need for you to reincarnate in this world. This is what my intuition tells me is true, I am three months post-Enlightenment right now. It is great :).

Of course, the fact that Enlightenment exists, yet has been hidden supports reincarnation. Why is humanity so oppressed, so disconnected from their feminine emotions, from the Earth, and from love and God? Why is it that fear controls us and not love? This is because, in my opinion, the masters of materialism want to keep us in a state of fear and not love, and unaware of the possibility of a personal connection with him, they've always made him something external and separate, this is not the case. They've hidden the true power and divine nature of man. They've always tried to make Jesus into someone not human, and God an external being. By definition he is omnipresent, meaning he is within you. Open the Crown Chakra and meet him. I think the elite purposely reincarnate into their own bloodlines, and purposely trap souls on Earth so that they can control them, and exploit them to live like false Gods. My intuition tells me that God is angry about this, and that there is a battle being waged both in this world, and in the Universe as we speak. The light will always prevail though.

[TheGlow]

Hello TheGlow,

The argument that you are referring to is what is called the Cosmological argument, it is a "circular argument." It stems from Aristotle's idea of the 'Prime Mover,' as in the first cause that initiated all that is in existence (Big Bang). But then the question becomes, what was the cause of the 'first cause,' according to our laws, every effect must have a preceding cause. This is difficult to answer, and has drawn people away from God and towards empiricism and science, simply because they cannot prove through deductive logic, his existence; therefore, they decided to only assume true what can be proven to be so. This is a difficult question, I don't have the answer.You can ask a question, but that doesn't mean that it deserves an answer. I'm assuming God is pure Energy and Love, and a representation of the highest state of self-awareness possible. He may have always been and always will be.

I have attempted to take an intentionality approach before, as in, humans cannot manipulate matter to create an object in reality unless they have both Mind and Intentionality. Since we are objects in objective reality, and ones infinitely more complex than anything humans have created, then we too must have been created by a Greater Mind with Intentionality. Nothing just pops into existence, we know this from our own knowledge of the world. Things must be created. I think that all is Mind; and that our subjective minds are tributaries of The Mind, and also connected to each others.

You can have a personal connection with God. But first you must open all of your Chakra's. This is not easy. You must transcend your egotistical perspective, your identification with race and nationality; and recognize humanity as One organism on One planet. Also, you must develop compassion and most importantly righteous intent. Only the worthy open their Crown Chakra's. These are the ones who have "ascended" in the past. Once you can do this, there is no need for you to reincarnate in this world. This is what my intuition tells me is true, I am three months post-Enlightenment right now. It is great :).

Of course, the fact that Enlightenment exists, yet has been hidden supports reincarnation. Why is humanity so oppressed, so disconnected from their feminine emotions, from the Earth, and from love and God? Why is it that fear controls us and not love? This is because, in my opinion, the masters of materialism want to keep us in a state of fear and not love, and unaware of the possibility of a personal connection with him, they've always made him something external and separate, this is not the case. They've hidden the true power and divine nature of man. They've always tried to make Jesus into someone not human, and God an external being. By definition he is omnipresent, meaning he is within you. Open the Crown Chakra and meet him. I think the elite purposely reincarnate into their own bloodlines, and purposely trap souls on Earth so that they can control them, and exploit them to live like false Gods. My intuition tells me that God is angry about this, and that there is a battle being waged both in this world, and in the Universe as we speak. The light will always prevail.
Hi Joshua

Your first paragraph explains my thoughts but I have no idea how that could possibly draw people away from God. It's proof of something much bigger than physics and biology.

I'm here in service came in with open chakras seeing spirits then closed them compassion and love is my natural state I'm just trying to understand a puzzle.

God isn't angry. God knows everything is proceeding just as it should in the scheme of things. Big picture.

[IndigoViolet]

This is my version -
There is a difference between rules and no rules, like the existence of time, and timeless. Which means time wise, we state the existence of god already. Without time, then there would be nothing at all. You might as well say, that things are just a state, or the state that it is, or is not. Maybe we created God thin-air, maybe we can deny Him and run our circles. But I would take the way that if things can be created by us, then there is a creator somewhere teasing me or looking at my post... yikes =.=

[TheGlow]

Woah my head hurt three different times in the first three sentence. I'm going to have to read that in the morning. I think there is something there. Be back in the am with caffeine. :)

[wolfgaze]

Humorous thread title, Miss Glow....

http://i.imgur.com/98tgi7c.gif

:icon_smile:

[IndigoViolet]

Woah my head hurt three different times in the first three sentence. I'm going to have to read that in the morning. I think there is something there. Be back in the am with caffeine. :)

Argh i am sorry :hug2: . This is if not digested is difficult to even to be, readable. Take some time for the being....

[wstein]

I'm hopeful that is my issue not that I am perticularly daft.
Not particularly daft but particularly human. This is one of the characteristics I have identified that defines 'being human'.

But wait just in case there is a brain cell left, not all infinities are the same 'size' some are 'bigger' than others ... (really)

So I always think you cannot rationally be an atheist
This shows the limitations of thinking.

[Jyotir]

... where did the original creator come from....

Self-existent.


So either there was no beginning or we don't exist......or the 'beginning' of creation issues forth at every moment from That which is 'uncreated' - That which is the 'real' existence, not just the (falsely exclusive) temporal, material (surface appearance) which is what we (in a very limited and limiting way) identify with... e.g., We do not typically identify with what is uncreated, self-existent, infinite, eternal Being. We identify with becoming, and significantly, with the aspect (i.e., mind) which is by its nature ignorant of the Transcendent which is the Source of the created, the dynamic 'becoming' aspect.



...there being no beginning.

...and no end.


~ J

[naturesflow]

I'm hopeful that is my issue not that I am perticularly daft.

So I always think you cannot rationally be an atheist(I've tried) because beyond evolution, and the big bang, beyond the idea that chemicals somehow mutated until life and consiousness just proofed into existence.... even if that were true where did the earth come from, the sun, gravity, space,...we could just go on right I'm preaching to the choir.

However say we add an intelligent creator no matter his/her/it's reason for creating us, has anyone figured out where he/she/it came from?

I can't get my head around no beginning. I'm cool with no end its just the no beginning, no start, no creation thing that messes my head up.

It's gotta be true because if the creator was created that just loops us around again and again to perpetuity because the original creator will give us the exact same confusion, where did the original creator come from.... Chicken or egg is nothing.

So either there was no beginning or we don't exist. I'm sure I exist in some form even if this mortal form is a projection so that leads me back to there being no beginning. I feel crazy just typing that.

Anyone perfectly grasp the no beginning consept? Care to chill my brain out by explaining how you made peace with it?


No beginning/no end might mean nothing is real and everything is real and will always be both as long as we determine things either end, or anywhere in between with our mind.

I have no idea but I get what your saying.

[Baile]

I can't get my head around no beginning.Because it's impossible, because human thought is incapable. It's that simple. Read The Kybalion, Hermeticism does a very good job of describing the nature of That which always was and always will be... to the extent the human mind is capable of fathoming anyway.

[Tanemon]

Because it's impossible, because human thought is incapable. It's that simple. Read The Kybalion, Hermeticism does a very good job of describing the nature of That which always was and always will be... to the extent the human mind is capable of fathoming anyway.
Yeah.

There are limits to thought, to human conceptualizing. Not that we or any particular individual has reached "the limit of thought"... but the Whole is beyond.

I have a background in writing & publishing (nonfiction and journalistic). I was recently asked by a guy I know to do a first edit and comments on his sea-adventure novel. I've just been getting to know this writer. He's a real-estate agent, and former school teacher. He's been thinking about his novel since 2006 and working on it for the past three years: set in the 19th century, and quite well researched. So I had the manuscript a couple weeks and, in my spare time, marked it and made notes.

We got together for lunch in a café and were talking about his novel, and there were some metaphysical/spiritual passages in two of the 26 chapters. When the discussion came round to those, he gave me an account of an experience he'd had when he was in university at about 20 years old. He unexpectedly experienced a cosmic inner voyage from his college town, out into the sky (with a down-looking view of the city), then seeing the globe of the Earth and its seas, continents & topographies, clouds, then out into solar system, further - among galaxies, and out into dark space, then white light.

Not a matter of thought, just pure experience. But it was and has been food for thought for him. I gues I hadn't known him well at all. I never knew that he's done a lot of reading about Vedanta, Buddhism, cultures, psychism. But he's had a wife and two sons. He's no atheist, but I think he'd be hard to classify. Life goes on... human life. For him, for me, for everyone. Lots to think about and wonder about.

That get-together in the café just reminded me: it's a game, and can be entertaining, to try to encompass it... to try to express a conception. But...

[A human Being]

Yeah I've tried to puzzle out this kind of thing myself, but I get lost pretty quickly when I try to follow this sort of very complex discussion. But my futile attempts at trying to comprehend such things has, it seems, awakened in me the intuition that I can only understand such a concept as infinity by recognising the beginningless, endless, unborn and undying in my own true nature, which is the vast ocean of stillness and silence that is my own Being, beyond name and form.

I don't think that's a satisfying answer for a mind that wants so badly to know, but then for me true knowing is beyond the mind.

[TheGlow]

Humorous thread title, Miss Glow....

http://i.imgur.com/98tgi7c.gif

:icon_smile:
It keeps happening. Every time I start reading replies.

[TheGlow]

Because it's impossible, because human thought is incapable. It's that simple. Read The Kybalion, Hermeticism does a very good job of describing the nature of That which always was and always will be... to the extent the human mind is capable of fathoming anyway.
I will look into this thank you. I kind of need infinity for dummies. I will chip away at it. :)

[wolfgaze]

It keeps happening. Every time I start reading replies.

You know that whole 10-foot pole expression? I think it applies here lol... Comprehending this aspect of reality/existence may be well beyond our reach (at least from this vantage point)... Does not compute - Error!

:tongue:

[TheGlow]

You know that whole 10-foot pole expression? I think it applies here lol... Comprehending this aspect of reality/existence may be well beyond our reach (at least from this vantage point)... Does not compute - Error!

:tongue:
Exactly! I think you nailed it.

[TheGlow]

I think I get it infinity is a fractal. All encompassing infinite. I get having no beginning in this context

[TheGlow]

The centre is source or origin, but not the beginning.

[wolfgaze]

I think I get it infinity is a fractal. All encompassing infinite. I get having no beginning in this context

http://i.imgur.com/21GuKcb.gif

[TheGlow]

http://i.imgur.com/21GuKcb.gif
lol I know right?! Burt really nailed that expression!

Not sure if that was whispered in my ear or I came up with that... Nope who we kidding I was informed from infinity. :)