any Christians believe in reincarnation?

[Heimlich]

I found that some do - apparently
americanchristiansociety.com/beliefs/reincarnation

[Sira]

I tried to google information of the Bible being canonized and what books/references were removed because I remember once reading that references to reincarnation were removed. I was not able to find anything but will continue the search...

[hippocratie]

Quote from this website.

'The rest of the world is passing us by as we continue our search for ultimate political correctness. We now admire and fear the Asians who only owe their success by coping us whites years ago.

Our society is becoming divided because there is not common ground acceptance of who we are as a people. We have lost our Christian heritage in our search for political correctness.

Any land divided with so many different beliefs can never stand united. There needs to be a common accepted ground to stand on.

We need the return of unity while having the freedom to pursue our own individual dreams and happiness.'


People like this claim to be Christian but clearly they are not.

[Perry J]

I tried to google information of the Bible being canonized and what books/references were removed because I remember once reading that references to reincarnation were removed. I was not able to find anything but will continue the search...

Hi Sira,

You have The Book of Enoch:
http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

There are many more. The Gospel of Thomas for example...

[Miss Hepburn]

I do. And have had a shocking recollection of one while washing dishes - knocked my socks off...never got to the dishes... Whew.

You all will enjoy this entitled "Reincarnation and the Bible" - it just happens to be on a near death site is all...enjoy!

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html (http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html)
Scroll down a bit, you'll see.



.

[Sira]

Miss Hepburn, I found that site when I was googling for information but skipped it. Now I go back to read it because there are no coincidences. :hug3:
Perry J, I have your link open on the background, thank you! :hug3:

[Dilchannan]

I am a Christian, and also believe in reincarnation..

[Heimlich]

I am a Christian, and also believe in reincarnation..

awesome (total spitz)
nice to see others

[Heimlich]

Quote from this website.

'The rest of the world is passing us by as we continue our search for ultimate political correctness. We now admire and fear the Asians who only owe their success by coping us whites years ago.

Our society is becoming divided because there is not common ground acceptance of who we are as a people. We have lost our Christian heritage in our search for political correctness.

Any land divided with so many different beliefs can never stand united. There needs to be a common accepted ground to stand on.

We need the return of unity while having the freedom to pursue our own individual dreams and happiness.'


People like this claim to be Christian but clearly they are not.





hmmm... but why are they not Christian? do you beleive that being Christian means only saying things like "love is all you need...ect"?

Tschüß

[Shabda]

here are the apocryphic texts that were kept out of the bible at the council of nicea...
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/tripart.htm

[Roseburn]

Hallo :)
I believe in reincarnation. I know my religion isn't all there is to believe in, but not all Christians are as open minded.

[Roseburn]

Hallo :)
I believe in reincarnation. I know my religion isn't all there is to believe in, but not all Christians are as open minded.

[bbr]

That website is definitely racist. If that's "Christian" then I'll eat my shorts.

And every Christian esotericist understands that the Bible is a mystery wisdom text, and that reincarnation is one of the occult tenets of that text.

Also, reincarnation was one of the tenets of the early Catholic Chruch, until it became politically unpopular as a teaching and was dropped.

[norseman]

Re-incarnation is something else "borrowed" from pagan beliefs. :smile:

[Heimlich]

Re-incarnation is something else "borrowed" from pagan beliefs. :smile:

Hebrews 9:27 (King James Version)

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:



This verse is often used to show reincarnation does not exist. I would see this as a natural statement. As someone who believes in reincarnation I would agree with this statement. When we (our bodies) die we (in the flesh) die once and face judgment. Every man (body) dies once and never comes back. The soul moves on after judgment.





Psalm 90:1-6 (New International Version)

1Lord, you have been our dwelling place
throughout all generations.
2 Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

3 You turn people back to dust,
saying, “Return to dust, you mortals.”
4 A thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.
5 Yet you sweep people away in the sleep of death—
they are like the new grass of the morning:
6 In the morning it springs up new,
but by evening it is dry and withered.



Proverbs 8:22-31 (New International Version

22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

[Heimlich]

That website is definitely racist. If that's "Christian" then I'll eat my shorts.



Oh my… I don’t agree with everything there but one must admit Christians are too pacifist. Christians are becoming extinct (sadly) and I don’t see them doing anything about it other than praying and waiting for God to work magic for them. At this rate we will all be one brown people with no religion (other than liberalism)

[Heimlich]

Hallo :)
I believe in reincarnation. I know my religion isn't all there is to believe in, but not all Christians are as open minded.

Danke für Ihr antwort
Tschüß!

[Shabda]

Re-incarnation is something else "borrowed" from pagan beliefs. :smile:
all religions are borrowed from earlier belief systems...

[HeavenwithinYOU]

There is no reincarnation, the 1000 year millennial period is totally not the same thing as coming to this world again, that is when Jesus comes to judge, etc... not bring born into the flesh, sin... again. Jesus died ONCE. WE LIVE ONCE. You want to know the REAL truth, here it is: THAT we are here to realize our sinful nature, not to make due with it... to hate it, not enjoy it, to seek another SELF from SPIRIT, to be REALLY born again so that GOD is no longer hidden... how? MAN cannot attain God, all you do is ASK, wait, READ and FAST... and do not leave (stop the persuit) until POWER from on high HAS overshadowed you.

IF ONE cannot realize they are SICK they cannot be healed from the human condition, the STREAMS of Living Water from within Jesus spoke of, HEAVEN within, IS AT HAND... and nobody wants to fast in secret, READ or ASK GOD for the Living Water and nobody has faith that IF THEY DO THIS.. and REALLY WAIT for something to happen... if they NEED something to happen because sinning SIMPLY JUST HURTS too much... and one is sick of hurting GOD... then they will HATE THEIR LIFE and SEEK HEAVEN and a heavenly BODY instead... GOD revealed... EMAIL me if you want to know exactly what I did, what God has shown me in terms of visions, not dreams... and how you can be connected to HEAVEN itself within a few weeks... and that THIS was the MASTER PLAN OF GOD in Christ.

Sincerely

Alex
[email protected]

[HeavenwithinYOU]

There is no reincarnation, the 1000 year millennial period is totally not the same thing as coming to this world again, that is when Jesus comes to judge, etc... not bring born into the flesh, sin... again. Jesus died ONCE. WE LIVE ONCE. You want to know the REAL truth, here it is: THAT we are here to realize our sinful nature, not to make due with it... to hate it, not enjoy it, to seek another SELF from SPIRIT, to be REALLY born again so that GOD is no longer hidden... how? MAN cannot attain God, all you do is ASK, wait, READ and FAST... and do not leave (stop the persuit) until POWER from on high HAS overshadowed you.

IF ONE cannot realize they are SICK they cannot be healed from the human condition, the STREAMS of Living Water from within Jesus spoke of, HEAVEN within, IS AT HAND... and nobody wants to fast in secret, READ or ASK GOD for the Living Water and nobody has faith that IF THEY DO THIS.. and REALLY WAIT for something to happen... if they NEED something to happen because sinning SIMPLY JUST HURTS too much... and one is sick of hurting GOD... then they will HATE THEIR LIFE and SEEK HEAVEN and a heavenly BODY instead... GOD revealed... EMAIL me if you want to know exactly what I did, what God has shown me in terms of visions, not dreams... and how you can be connected to HEAVEN itself within a few weeks... and that THIS was the MASTER PLAN OF GOD in Christ.

Sincerely

Alex
[email protected]:angel12:

[Shabda]

There is no reincarnation, the 1000 year millennial period is totally not the same thing as coming to this world again, that is when Jesus comes to judge, etc... not bring born into the flesh, sin... again. Jesus died ONCE. WE LIVE ONCE. You want to know the REAL truth, here it is: THAT we are here to realize our sinful nature, not to make due with it... to hate it, not enjoy it, to seek another SELF from SPIRIT, to be REALLY born again so that GOD is no longer hidden... how? MAN cannot attain God, all you do is ASK, wait, READ and FAST... and do not leave (stop the persuit) until POWER from on high HAS overshadowed you.

IF ONE cannot realize they are SICK they cannot be healed from the human condition, the STREAMS of Living Water from within Jesus spoke of, HEAVEN within, IS AT HAND... and nobody wants to fast in secret, READ or ASK GOD for the Living Water and nobody has faith that IF THEY DO THIS.. and REALLY WAIT for something to happen... if they NEED something to happen because sinning SIMPLY JUST HURTS too much... and one is sick of hurting GOD... then they will HATE THEIR LIFE and SEEK HEAVEN and a heavenly BODY instead... GOD revealed... EMAIL me if you want to know exactly what I did, what God has shown me in terms of visions, not dreams... and how you can be connected to HEAVEN itself within a few weeks... and that THIS was the MASTER PLAN OF GOD in Christ.

Sincerely

Alex
[email protected]
this is YOUR opinion, nothing more...

[DivineLove]

There is no reincarnation, the 1000 year millennial period is totally not the same thing as coming to this world again, that is when Jesus comes to judge, etc... not bring born into the flesh, sin... again. Jesus died ONCE. WE LIVE ONCE. You want to know the REAL truth, here it is: THAT we are here to realize our sinful nature, not to make due with it... to hate it, not enjoy it, to seek another SELF from SPIRIT, to be REALLY born again so that GOD is no longer hidden... how? MAN cannot attain God, all you do is ASK, wait, READ and FAST... and do not leave (stop the persuit) until POWER from on high HAS overshadowed you.

IF ONE cannot realize they are SICK they cannot be healed from the human condition, the STREAMS of Living Water from within Jesus spoke of, HEAVEN within, IS AT HAND... and nobody wants to fast in secret, READ or ASK GOD for the Living Water and nobody has faith that IF THEY DO THIS.. and REALLY WAIT for something to happen... if they NEED something to happen because sinning SIMPLY JUST HURTS too much... and one is sick of hurting GOD... then they will HATE THEIR LIFE and SEEK HEAVEN and a heavenly BODY instead... GOD revealed... EMAIL me if you want to know exactly what I did, what God has shown me in terms of visions, not dreams... and how you can be connected to HEAVEN itself within a few weeks... and that THIS was the MASTER PLAN OF GOD in Christ.

Sincerely

Alex
[email protected]:angel12:

Well, brother, WELCOME! :hug3:

I welcome you, to our forum!

There is great truth in much that you have written.
The tone, is a bit fundamentalist.
But if it is God's Love that you are seeking/sharing, and your
understanding/belief in Christ.
Then you are amongst friends!:hug:

The "human condition", is a necessary step, in our greater evolution.
Our imperfection, these are part of the package, that come with this flesh body. God has decided, that the Earth experience, is a necessary part, of the souls evolution/development, which forms a part of the eventual, and gradual, return to the Source.

God is the only Perfect Being, in all of Existence. And below Him,
there is Jesus. The Son of God. A very advanced, and pure soul.

The rest of us, have great work to do.

But this work, should not be seen as shameful, or as having
some form of a "condition."
It is just that.
A work-in-progress.

Brother, welcome, enjoy your stay here. :hug:
You might want to consider turning down the fundamentalist dial, just a touch, and turn up the dial that reads "LOVE".
Or perhaps even the dial that reads "GOD'S DIVINE LOVE."

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[DivineLove]

this is YOUR opinion, nothing more...

Shabda, easy brother. Easy.:hug:

Don't make me re-post your splendid passage that you left for all of us, which outlines the importance of tolerance. (Awesome post)

He is new to this forum.

What was it you told me? Divine Love, is the shield and the sword?

With Love Shabda. Like your avatar shows. And like your signature, says.
Amidst all opposition.

There should still be LOVE.:hug:

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Shabda]

Shabda, easy brother. Easy.:hug:

Don't make me re-post your splendid passage that you left for all of us, which outlines the importance of tolerance. (Awesome post)

He is new to this forum.

What was it you told me? Divine Love, is the shield and the sword?

With Love Shabda. Like your avatar shows. And like your signature, says.
Amidst all opposition.

There should still be LOVE.:hug:

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:
im sorry, but it had to be pointed out, i was being told there is no such thing, and i know differently...of course, i still respect that person's opinion, no problem with that, but im not sure the same respect was going all the way round the way it was stated...

[DivineLove]

im sorry, but it had to be pointed out, i was being told there is no such thing, and i know differently...of course, i still respect that person's opinion, no problem with that, but im not sure the same respect was going all the way round the way it was stated...

You're not wrong Shabda.
Fundamentalism, can elicit a strong response.
I know you've had your fair share as well.

People come on to this forum, on one frequency. And then, in time, as all frequencies are sympathetic, there comes the inevitable harmony. Give him some time, to adjust.

This is not a place where fundamentalism blooms and flowers. Here, people are more inclined towards the spiritual.

As our new friend and brother, will soon discover.
No harm. Just strong opinions.

As the rose blooms amidst thorns, so great souls shine out through all opposition, IN THE LIGHT OF LOVE

Always, in the light of LOVE. :hug:

[Shabda]

You're not wrong Shabda.
Fundamentalism, can elicit a strong response.
I know you've had your fair share as well.

People come on to this forum, on one frequency. And then, in time, as all frequencies are sympathetic, there comes the inevitable harmony. Give him some time, to adjust.

This is not a place where fundamentalism blooms and flowers. Here, people are more inclined towards the spiritual.

As our new friend and brother, will soon discover.
No harm. Just strong opinions.

As the rose blooms amidst thorns, so great souls shine out through all opposition, IN THE LIGHT OF LOVE

Always, in the light of LOVE. :hug:








i have no problem with the new guy, but sometimes folks dont realize that their opinion is an opinion, not a fact that can be proven to others, not sure that that was what he actually meant or anything either, so i just said it, thats all, no harm meant by any means, and i hope, no harm taken...

[DivineLove]

i have no problem with the new guy, but sometimes folks dont realize that their opinion is an opinion, not a fact that can be proven to others, not sure that that was what he actually meant or anything either, so i just said it, thats all, no harm meant by any means, and i hope, no harm taken...

Shabda, I can't help but to reflect on the passage you left the other day.
It was truly a moving piece.

In a way, I think we should all strive, to achieve that level of harmony amongst one another.

Especially here, on a forum, that supports so many different views.

There is so much disharmony in the world, already, that we should truly try, especially places like this, a SPIRITUAL FORUM.

To practice harmony.


Shabda, this thread, is a subject that you have considerable insight on.
Why not share some of your knowledge here?

Amilius, why not shed some light here as well? I know you believe deeply in Christ, but that you also believe in re-incarnation.

Come on people, OPEN UP! :hug:

My views, fall in line, with Jesus's teachings. Present day.
Jesus teaches, while the flesh body grows in parallel to the soul, there is also a spirit body, that develops.
This spirit body, surrounds the soul, when we leave the flesh body.
And from his teachings, he is quite clear, that a soul, with a spirit body, a spirit body which has formed, because of the years spent developing and growing, cannot be removed.

Jesus teaches, that only souls, without a spirit body, can incarnate.

So only new souls, or fresh souls.

The souls, with spirit bodies, move onward, to the spirit realms.
Never re-tracing its steps.

This is also a very important distinction, in Jesus's teachings.
That the soul, was never designed, to re-trace its steps, but rather, to move onward. Always onward.

I am glad this subject came up, as I wanted to learn more of what other faiths/practices had discovered.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Amilius777]

DivineLove:

As much as I like Padgett and Cayce on soul development and the point of life is to partake of the divine, the one thing I don't understand is that you say Jesus' teachings say etc etc.

Those are his teachings according to Padgett.

No where in the Synoptic Gospels, Gnostic, Nag Hammadi or whatever does Jesus ever renounce reincarnation.

If anything is it easily hinted in the Synoptic Gospels, and spoken openly in the Gnostic and Dead Sea Scrolls.

And evidence of the first century christians along with Jews believing in reincarnation and resurrection were common themes.

I don't understand how Padgett could channel every truth 100% correctly.

It sounds a bit cultish. The same with Cayce's A.R.E. organization.

Just my humble opinion

[Shabda]

i would like to point out (my own opinion or perception of course) that the spirit body is not at all the same thing as the soul, and we have many many spirit bodies, this is what is seen as a ghost in haunted places, a soul itself IS without a spirit body,existing upon a level where spirit bodies cannot, and before going to prepare for reincarnation, all of these lower spirit bodies cease to exist altogether, and are remade anew...just my take on it all...

[DivineLove]

DivineLove:

As much as I like Padgett and Cayce on soul development and the point of life is to partake of the divine, the one thing I don't understand is that you say Jesus' teachings say etc etc.

Those are his teachings according to Padgett.

No where in the Synoptic Gospels, Gnostic, Nag Hammadi or whatever does Jesus ever renounce reincarnation.

If anything is it easily hinted in the Synoptic Gospels, and spoken openly in the Gnostic and Dead Sea Scrolls.

And evidence of the first century christians along with Jews believing in reincarnation and resurrection were common themes.

I don't understand how Padgett could channel every truth 100% correctly.

It sounds a bit cultish. The same with Cayce's A.R.E. organization.

Just my humble opinion

Amilius,

I was really hoping you would share some of your knowledge on this subject.

Mr. Padgett, is not the only medium, to have received messages from Jesus.

Dr. David Lampron, president of the Foundation Church of Divine Truth, is one of two mediums, who receives all formal messages from Jesus, present day. The messages date back to the mid 80's. All published here:

http://www.fcdt.org/messages/messages_toc.htm

Hans Radix, received messages from Jesus and Judas. He resides in Ecuador.

These are 2 human beings, alive, in the flesh, as we speak.

I say Jesus's teachings, because when a medium takes messages, from a spirit, the source of that message, is not from this plane that we occupy.
But rather, from which ever sphere or plane, the spirit is on.

A medium, receives messages, from spirits.

Cayce, went into trances, and produced impressions. This is not the same as actually making rapport, with a specific spirit.

Mediums, receive messages, from spirits. They are not the authors of the work being presented, but rather, just a point of transmission.

Here is Jesus's teaching, received by Dr. David Lampron, Dated Jan 10 - 1990.

Jesus,

In other messages, I have made plain that a soul can never be divested of its spirit body, which contains it, in order to make its way into the womb of yet another mortal. And, so, this fact alone is sufficient to make clear that there are no repeated incarnations; the mortal body is temporal whereas the spirit body, so far as is known, is eternal. However, we do appreciate some of the struggles that beset the minds of men who are seeking to understand how the perfect workings of a just God could occur without the apparent need for successive lifetimes of improvement and advancement on earth. But the answer, dear ones, is that the perfect workings of God's Laws are no less served on the spirit side of life. For it is there that all the questions and concerns a believer in reincarnation may have are truly answered and reconciled, and not on earth where but the kindergarten of man's soulful evolution begins.


God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[DivineLove]

DivineLove:

As much as I like Padgett and Cayce on soul development and the point of life is to partake of the divine, the one thing I don't understand is that you say Jesus' teachings say etc etc.

Those are his teachings according to Padgett.

No where in the Synoptic Gospels, Gnostic, Nag Hammadi or whatever does Jesus ever renounce reincarnation.

If anything is it easily hinted in the Synoptic Gospels, and spoken openly in the Gnostic and Dead Sea Scrolls.

And evidence of the first century christians along with Jews believing in reincarnation and resurrection were common themes.

I don't understand how Padgett could channel every truth 100% correctly.

It sounds a bit cultish. The same with Cayce's A.R.E. organization.

Just my humble opinion


Ok, this is something that I found, in reference to the Bible and re-incarnation.

Question: "What does the Bible say about reincarnation?"

Answer: The concept of reincarnation is completely without foundation in the Bible, which clearly tells us that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Hebrews%209.27)). The Bible never mentions people having a second chance at life or coming back as different people or animals. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Luke%2023.43)), not "You will have another chance to live a life on this earth." Matthew 25:46 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew%2025.46) specifically tells us that believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go onto eternal punishment. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

The one passage that some point to as evidence for reincarnation is Matthew 17:10-12 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew%2017.10-12) which links John the Baptist with Elijah. However, the passage does not say that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated but that he would have fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah's coming if the people had believed his words and thereby believed in Jesus as the Messiah (Matthew 17:12 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew%2017.12)). The people specifically asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, "No, I am not" (John 1:21 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/John%201.21)).

Belief in reincarnation is an ancient phenomenon and is a central tenet within the majority of Indian religious traditions, such as Hinduism (http://www.gotquestions.org/hinduism.html), Sikhism (http://www.gotquestions.org/Sikhism.html), and Jainism (http://www.gotquestions.org/Jainism.html). Many modern pagans also believe in reincarnation as do some New Age movements, along with followers of spiritism. For the Christian, however, there can be no doubt: reincarnation is unbiblical and must be rejected as false.(GOTTA LOVE FUNDAMENTALISM!!!:hug:)

[DivineLove]

i would like to point out (my own opinion or perception of course) that the spirit body is not at all the same thing as the soul, and we have many many spirit bodies, this is what is seen as a ghost in haunted places, a soul itself IS without a spirit body,existing upon a level where spirit bodies cannot, and before going to prepare for reincarnation, all of these lower spirit bodies cease to exist altogether, and are remade anew...just my take on it all...

Shabda,

Thank you, for your insights! :smile:

I think that we both believe in Heaven.
How can we have Heaven, and re-incarnation at the same time?

I know from our talks, that you've suggested spirits that do not attain to a certain level, are re-incarnated. But in most of these channeled teachings, apart from the more advanced spirits, the Celestial Spirits, there are also, many natural spirits, from the natural spheres.

They did not attain to anything, as their message state. Most of them did not practice anything, but somehow wound up on the other side, and wrote about it.

I would believe that idea, if there were no natural realms.
But there are definitely natural realms, and many spirits who occupy them. Mediums constantly make contact with spirits, on the other side.

So who are these mediums making contact with, if everyone is getting re-incarnated?

This is a very peculiar topic.:hug:

[Shabda]

Shabda,

Thank you, for your insights! :smile:

I think that we both believe in Heaven.
How can we have Heaven, and re-incarnation at the same time?

I know from our talks, that you've suggested spirits that do not attain to a certain level, are re-incarnated. But in most of these channeled teachings, apart from the more advanced spirits, the Celestial Spirits, there are also, many natural spirits, from the natural spheres.

They did not attain to anything, as their message state. Most of them did not practice anything, but somehow wound up on the other side, and wrote about it.

I would believe that idea, if there were no natural realms.
But there are definitely natural realms, and many spirits who occupy them. Mediums constantly make contact with spirits, on the other side.

So who are these mediums making contact with, if everyone is getting re-incarnated?

This is a very peculiar topic.:hug:
in my humble opinion, celestial spirits are a part of the lower worlds, from the Soul plane on in, there are no celestial anything, celestrial represents a physical aspect and is part of the natural sphere, there is ALWAYS another step further up and further in....the astral, causal and mental planes arent at all heaven although they appear to be in contrast with this plane...now as for which spirits are being contacted, that i can offer no opinion on because im not one of them, if i were i could answer that without a problem...if everyone is getting reincarnated and these spirits are saying this, i have to wonder if theyre lying, as even the astral spirits ive spoken with have no doubts about their reincarnations, some have been born into this world already...now again, i have no judgment to make or pass over these spirits, or Mr. Padgett as i have never met them, but those that i do meet cannot hide themselves from me, if they are being tricky in some way for whatever purpose, it can be seen...there is much deception that occurs on these planes, and it is not always so obvious, then there is the aspect that the information one gets will almost never be something that they cant handle, or accept, and that may play a part in it all, i cant say for sure...as ive told you, im no psychic, but i have often gone to the other side in full consciousness, and i have yet to find anything that differs with my perception concerning reincarnation...just 2 weeks ago i saw each and every incarnation i have ever had, and many of those souls are here with me now as well playing varying parts in my life. now of course i cant prove this to you or anyone, so it'll have to remain as my opinion of things, but i have had the experience, all i can say is that i know it is true...on another side, my wife also saw each and every one of her incarnations, we had been together in a great many lives before this one, and as soul, we are the best of friends...again, not proof, but a very curious co-mingling of events...

[Amilius777]

Hey DivineLove,

this is all true about certain biblical references and scholars.

But there is historical proof that many Jewish tenets followed the beliefs of reincarnation such as the Essenes, Nazarenes, and various others. Where as the Orthodox Judaism was extremely bigoted, conservative, and literal as we see how religion has become. Where as the Essenes of either the Nazarite or other were a lifestyle, a community that was very buddhistic in its way of life. A sense of unity, oneness, spiritual communion with God, and the belief that the messiah would usher in a "spiritual" kingdom. They also believed that the messiah would be the reincarnation of Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek. All of this was FOUND in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the late 40s.

Right before the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and before anyone knew anything about the Essenes, Cayce spoke of Jesus as an Essene who was brought up on their lifestyle.

And Edgar Cayce said that John the Baptist was the Essene leader who was more obsessed with the written law, instead of the law written in our hearts as Jesus spoke. So John was more formal and religious, Jesus was spiritual which is higher.

And Jesus did tell his Apostles that Elijah did come and they did not see him.

Obviously the Christ, the pure and perfect soul of Jesus would know the past lives of his cousin John and all his Apostles and anybody else because he is the greatest entity next to God Himself.

And in Cayce's readings he says that Jesus was Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek in his past incarnations, always as God's Son, pure and perfect.

Another tidbit is that Roman Catholic Church tradition states that Adam's skull was under Golgatha where Jesus died. And in St. Paul's writings Melchizedek is called "a figure of Christ" a type of Christ. And Paul refers to the first Adam (physical) being created by the second Adam (spiritual), but the physical came first, and the spiritual second. So that the second Adam would be the first. ?? What in God's name is Paul talking about? Well, Cayce is very much correct in so many ways even though I do not consciously go around blabbing Jesus having past lives. It seems here that not only was Jesus Adam, but that Jesus as a spiritual being created his own flesh body (Adam) 10,000 something years ago and entered it on his own and experienced flesh and fell/disobeyed, only to obey in his life of Jesus to show mankind how to reverse his disgrace into grace.

Another thing is that when Joshua in the Exodus passed away, he was called God's Branch, the prince of peace, and these would be attributed to the Messiah. Joshua also succeeded Moses and was able to lead the people to Israel and stop the Sun in the sky. Which around 3000 bc, the time Cayce spoke of Joshua's miracle, there is a Chinese tradition that the Sun did something bizarre in that year. Which means Joshua had some divine power. And Cayce attributes Joshua to being one of Jesus' past lives.

Another thing is that later in the Old Testament (I believe psalms), Joshua is given robes a mantle, and crowned by God as h is branch. ????Does this refer to a later episode where he would become the Messiah?

And why did the Vatican delete The Book of Enoch? Because Enoch ascended into Heaven and was crowned an angel or divine being in God's court. And Enoch called himself the Son of Man. And Jesus refers to the Son of Man ascending and descending. Meaning the Church knew damn well that Enoch and Jesus were either two Christs which is not possible, or the same individual. So they s******* the whole thing. Because whether Jesus did or not have past incarnations, he was always the pure son keeping his will in line with the Father's will. Even if he was Enoch or not.

One more thing.--
In the Book of Revelations Jesus tells John in his visions that he too can overcame just as Jesus overcame. And that you would no longer need to be a pillar sent out from the Temple. You shall remain in the temple and go out no more once you overcome..
....???
Well if God is the Temple, the body or Christ and we are souls who go into that universal body, why would we be sent out? And overcome? Jesus overcame in the physical world? Thus it is referring to the soul leaving the body of Christ continuously until all errors and impurities are conquered in the Earth Plane, then the soul forever resides within the Father and partakes of his divinity.

And how in God's name would Cayce be such a fraud if his predictions are 80% accurate? For God's sakes he told the mother of the man who created FM radio that her son would create a radio creation that would network everyone together and become a huge success. Cayce did readings for American Presidents, scientists, and many inventors. He was a spiritual genius.

Cayce in his daily life taught Sunday school and believed that Jesus was God the Son, incarnate, died for our sins, the whole Orthodox Bit. But in his trances, Jesus was the pure and perfected soul who after many lifetimes partook of the Divine when he finished his last life as Christ and ascended to the Father. He was once Adam, Joseph, Melchizedek and a host of others. And the leader of Atlantis when it was created.

So how is that possible?

[RabbiO]

But there is historical proof that many Jewish tenets followed the beliefs of reincarnation such as the Essenes, Nazarenes, and various others. Where as the Orthodox Judaism was extremely bigoted, conservative, and literal as we see how religion has become.

Don't really know much about Judaism do you, either as it was in the 1st century C.E. or now?

Of course you don't seem to know the definition of the word "tenet" either.

B'shalom,

Peter

[bbr]

Oh my… I don’t agree with everything there but one must admit Christians are too pacifist. Christians are becoming extinct (sadly) and I don’t see them doing anything about it other than praying and waiting for God to work magic for them. At this rate we will all be one brown people with no religion (other than liberalism)
First you post a link to a site with this as the mainpage mission statement: "We now admire and fear the Asians who only owe their success by coping us whites years ago."

Then you offer a defense of said mission statement which includes a comment lamenting the fact that we'll all be "turning brown" if we don't get this Christian thing sorted out. And you're trying to suggest that none of that is blatantly racist?

[bbr]

And Jesus did tell his Apostles that Elijah did come and they did not see him.

And in Cayce's readings he says that Jesus was Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek in his past incarnations, always as God's Son, pure and perfect.

Another tidbit is that Roman Catholic Church tradition states that Adam's skull was under Golgatha where Jesus died.Thank you. As with every thread in the Christianity section it seems, people either approach these subjects from a limited evangelical perspective, or they comprehend the deeper truths underlying the Bible's esoteric, occult content and wisdom.

[Sira]

here are the apocryphic texts that were kept out of the bible at the council of nicea...
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/tripart.htm
Thank you! This reminds me of something. Before I started channeling the Book of Earth, my guides guided me to read the Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library, in that order. I spent my summer holiday just reading them and it opened me to a wider awareness, beyond this universe.
The answer to the original question, "any Christians believe in reincarnation?", yes I do. I don't have a choice really, I remember too many of my past lives and existences, on Earth and elsewhere.
:hug3:

[Heimlich]

First you post a link to a site with this as the mainpage mission statement: "We now admire and fear the Asians who only owe their success by coping us whites years ago."

Then you offer a defense of said mission statement which includes a comment lamenting the fact that we'll all be "turning brown" if we don't get this Christian thing sorted out. And you're trying to suggest that none of that is blatantly racist?

No, I don’t think it is racist unless they mention hate. There is nothing hateful about that statement. The section on Adam and Eve talks about “each to it’s own kind” and so on… (that’s where I got some of this) There clearly is an agenda to bring all people together. That is a good thing but not the way we are going about it – mixing us all into one brown people.
Do you really think multicultural societies work?

[Heimlich]

There is no reincarnation, the 1000 year millennial period is totally not the same thing as coming to this world again, that is when Jesus comes to judge, etc... not bring born into the flesh, sin... again. Jesus died ONCE. WE LIVE ONCE. You want to know the REAL truth, here it is: THAT we are here to realize our sinful nature, not to make due with it... to hate it, not enjoy it, to seek another SELF from SPIRIT, to be REALLY born again so that GOD is no longer hidden... how? MAN cannot attain God, all you do is ASK, wait, READ and FAST... and do not leave (stop the persuit) until POWER from on high HAS overshadowed you.

IF ONE cannot realize they are SICK they cannot be healed from the human condition, the STREAMS of Living Water from within Jesus spoke of, HEAVEN within, IS AT HAND... and nobody wants to fast in secret, READ or ASK GOD for the Living Water and nobody has faith that IF THEY DO THIS.. and REALLY WAIT for something to happen... if they NEED something to happen because sinning SIMPLY JUST HURTS too much... and one is sick of hurting GOD... then they will HATE THEIR LIFE and SEEK HEAVEN and a heavenly BODY instead... GOD revealed... EMAIL me if you want to know exactly what I did, what God has shown me in terms of visions, not dreams... and how you can be connected to HEAVEN itself within a few weeks... and that THIS was the MASTER PLAN OF GOD in Christ.

Sincerely

Alex
[email protected]:angel12:

thank you for your words! I beleive you truly care for people.
what do you think about the below:?
God is always making everything new. Our bodies are electric machines controlled by the spirit of who we really are. Our bodies, like everything else in the universe, breakdown to where they started and build up again.

The goal of all mankind is to achieve balance and become one with God. This process can take millions of lifetimes. It is God’s will for all of mankind to achieve this oneness. Once achieved, the process starts again with a separation… “Let us create man in our image and in our likeness…”

Death is a process that makes things new. Life and death work hand-in-hand making things new. When one breathes in – this is life. When one exhales out – this is death. One cannot live again without first experiencing death. Death is a process, not an end caused by sin or the devil.

[7thHeaven]

As a Divine Love Christian I believe the following to be true and have copied text from a channeled message from Jesus in 1990.

It is indeed true that complete and impartial justice is not served on earth; it is equally true that soul progression must extend beyond one mortal lifetime. The error of reincarnationist thinking, however, is that full justice, expiation, and growth must occur through a succession of mortal lifetimes, when the true fact remains that all of these ends are served on the spirit side of life rather than on earth. Furthermore, the concept of "stages of initiation" has an element of truth in it so long as it is understood that soulful development and advancement is a continual process in the spheres of the spirit world, not the by-product of repeated mortal incarnations.

In other messages, I have made plain that a soul can never be divested of its spirit body, which contains it, in order to make its way into the womb of yet another mortal. And, so, this fact alone is sufficient to make clear that there are no repeated incarnations; the mortal body is temporal whereas the spirit body, so far as is known, is eternal. However, we do appreciate some of the struggles that beset the minds of men who are seeking to understand how the perfect workings of a just God could occur without the apparent need for successive lifetimes of improvement and advancement on earth. But the answer, dear ones, is that the perfect workings of God's Laws are no less served on the spirit side of life. For it is there that all the questions and concerns a believer in reincarnation may have are truly answered and reconciled, and not on earth where but the kindergarten of man's soulful evolution begins.

Again, you were right in thinking that I said: "but I say unto you that it was one like Elijah is come," - and not - "But I say unto you that Elijah is come," for I did refer to John the Baptist, who in his type of sermon and in his temperament, and even in his garb and food, was a throw back to Elijah, - but here the similarity ended, for each of these lived different lives, and are individual souls and are both living in the Celestial Heavens at the same time, and this is a physical impossibility with reincarnation, for, in this doctrine, if Elijah was John the Baptist, only one soul and only one spirit body would be involved

[Shabda]

As a Divine Love Christian I believe the following to be true and have copied text from a channeled message from Jesus in 1990.

It is indeed true that complete and impartial justice is not served on earth; it is equally true that soul progression must extend beyond one mortal lifetime. The error of reincarnationist thinking, however, is that full justice, expiation, and growth must occur through a succession of mortal lifetimes, when the true fact remains that all of these ends are served on the spirit side of life rather than on earth. Furthermore, the concept of "stages of initiation" has an element of truth in it so long as it is understood that soulful development and advancement is a continual process in the spheres of the spirit world, not the by-product of repeated mortal incarnations.

In other messages, I have made plain that a soul can never be divested of its spirit body, which contains it, in order to make its way into the womb of yet another mortal. And, so, this fact alone is sufficient to make clear that there are no repeated incarnations; the mortal body is temporal whereas the spirit body, so far as is known, is eternal. However, we do appreciate some of the struggles that beset the minds of men who are seeking to understand how the perfect workings of a just God could occur without the apparent need for successive lifetimes of improvement and advancement on earth. But the answer, dear ones, is that the perfect workings of God's Laws are no less served on the spirit side of life. For it is there that all the questions and concerns a believer in reincarnation may have are truly answered and reconciled, and not on earth where but the kindergarten of man's soulful evolution begins.

Again, you were right in thinking that I said: "but I say unto you that it was one like Elijah is come," - and not - "But I say unto you that Elijah is come," for I did refer to John the Baptist, who in his type of sermon and in his temperament, and even in his garb and food, was a throw back to Elijah, - but here the similarity ended, for each of these lived different lives, and are individual souls and are both living in the Celestial Heavens at the same time, and this is a physical impossibility with reincarnation, for, in this doctrine, if Elijah was John the Baptist, only one soul and only one spirit body would be involved
personally, i disagree completely, and dont believe that is even remotely Jesus, but thats just me...

[Amilius777]

Why does it always have to be God's Master Plan in Jesus. Or in this one or that one.

Why can't it be God's Master Plan in You?

What is so hard for people to believe the real truth that Christ is the real Self, the new Self, the true Self. Truth, Way, Life, Light are all Christ.

And Christ is our unity. - "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things came to be through this ONE" Thus the Word is One with God and is the One and was (hence it says was, as if no more) God.

All souls were in unity, oneness, with God. Before their individual expression, all souls were spirits in the Mind of God. And through us all before we became selves, God made all things. That is God's only Word, us. For does St. Paul not say that we make up the Body of Christ, it is one body, one spirit, with many members? That is the Word. We were all one in God, and all became separate in Adam, and we are made whole and one again in Christ.

These are not just two people named Jesus and Adam of Genesis. These are consciousness or states of humanity. Paradise Lost to Paradise Found.

Origen was the only Church Father that had any common sense. Too bad the fear and oppression took over. The Church Fathers have been proven time and time again wrong.

Just look at the Orthodox Church and its Saints they have tortured for 2000 years!

St. Theresa of Avila testified the existence of the Formless Christ. The Christ as a universal mental expression, something beyond comprehension and human words, and beyond Jesus the human. The Christ that is a spirit, a principle.

And if reincarnation is false, then the Lord has A LOT of explaining to do. Why are some people made rich and some made poor? Some become astronauts, some die in the womb. Some go off to enjoy having families, some are killed in car accidents. Some have birth defects beyond comprehension, some are born with perfect health.

If there is no such thing as Karma, then Moses is a LIAR! His entire writing of the Law is about cause and effect. For a modern interpretation- For the law of karma came through Moses, bu the law of grace came through Jesus Christ. What happened to an eye for an eye? Jesus says if you live by the sword you die by the sword? Really? In one lifetime someone will get to you and kill you with a sword? Are you sure about that? There are plenty who killed with a weapon and were never killed by one in their present lifetime. I guess Jesus is a liar too.

Well I guess that old dude in the NT was made blind just so Jesus could cure him to make Jesus look good.....nice God.

And I guess only Lazarus was meant to be resurrected by chance. I guess natural selection is a very good theory, perhaps it is true in spirituality.

Oh well I guess everyone might as well sit there and do nothing with our lives. Maybe God will come or not. Maybe we can just be couch potatoes.

Unless that blind man in a previous lifetime had misused the gift of the senses and in his next life he would agree to a body without the sense of seeing to understand blindness. So that his karma would be fulfilled. But grace would be given to him by God later in life when his learning was finished.

Same with Lazarus. Was Lazarus' soul pure enough to actually be resurrected? And didn't Lazarus eventually die after Jesus ascended? For everyone must die, unless they be the Son of God raise themselves up as Jesus did. Jesus raised the Son of man to the Father, his human nature to divinity. I wonder if we can all do this? Well if we get one lifetime you better get it right this time, if not it is the Eternal Pit for you boy! Get in there and melt off that flesh that you couldn't raise up. ---Argument by the unenlightened- "Well actually it will be raised on the last day?!" But why does Jesus always refer to the Last Day as the last day of you very own human existence? Was his time not called the Dreadful Day of the Lord? And people still did not massively resurrect, and the world did not literally end.....

[hippocratie]

Why does it always have to be God's Master Plan in Jesus. Or in this one or that one.

Why can't it be God's Master Plan in You?

What is so hard for people to believe the real truth that Christ is the real Self, the new Self, the true Self. Truth, Way, Life, Light are all Christ.
.....

That's the problem, everyone has their own personal Jesus. We all know that Jesus is about love and it's always easy to love youself. Everyone want to defend Jesus for the prosperity of their own kind. Any sacrifice to your lifestyle for the equality and deveploment of any other part of the world isn't Christian because equal is a Communist word. All the Christian groups that exist in this world use Jesus as a tool to put down someone else or some other group of people. The people that truly fight for freedom don't have to state that they are doing it for Jesus.
Protest againt Vietnam war, 60's revelotion, Peace, Love, no Jesus.
I can't think of a more modern example because nobody talks about that bull anymore. Love your Neighbor, look out for those less fortunate than you, forgive those that have wronged you, What a pile of bull.

[7thHeaven]

personally, i disagree completely, and dont believe that is even remotely Jesus, but thats just me...

I am totally at peace if you disagree as I respect all. For me, there is absolutely no doubt the path that I am on will eventually lead me to where I want to be and I believe that many of our paths will come together in unity one day.

[7thHeaven]

At the end of the day we can not dwell too much on if we are to grow spiritually here on Earth by being reincarnated over and over again or if we are to grow spiritually on the other side in the spirit world.

I guess at the end of the day, our main focus should be on the Love that we have for our Father and each other and to ask for his love to permeate our very souls. We can perhaps agree to disagree but agree on the fact that we are spiritual beings that existed before being incarnated into our material bodies and will continue to exist on our journey towards our Heavenly Father.

[Shabda]

I am totally at peace if you disagree as I respect all. For me, there is absolutely no doubt the path that I am on will eventually lead me to where I want to be and I believe that many of our paths will come together in unity one day.
they already are within~!and i like tat you are at peace, not everyone can say that~! well done~!

[7thHeaven]

they already are within~!and i like tat you are at peace, not everyone can say that~! well done~!

Thank you Shabda. Well as a newbie on this forum I am so far very impressed with the level of respect that I am witnessing. It means so very much. Blessings to you.

[DivineLove]

Thank you Shabda. Well as a newbie on this forum I am so far very impressed with the level of respect that I am witnessing. It means so very much. Blessings to you.

7thHeaven, Shabda is a very interesting person.
He is very kind and considerate, and always offers and shares his
deep insights, with everyone.

This a quality I admire about him.
His practice, has shown him his own understanding of the spirit planes.
He travels extensively.
He is not a Christian, but is nonetheless, a friend, along a common path.

I am not sure, how it is, that he came to the understanding of Divine Love.
But he knows of the great importance of God's Love.

For us 7thHeaven, we are told directly, from the spirit teachings of Jesus and other Celestial Spirits.
If I did not come across these teachings, I would never have understood the great importance that God's Love plays, in the development of the soul.
So I naturally, just followed the advice, of what I perceived to be a much more advanced soul.
And I maintain that practice, every day.

Somehow, despite not being rooted in Christianity, or following Jesus's teachings, Shabda, has found much the same.

Does it matter, which way we come to this understanding, that God's Love, His Divine Substance, is necessary, for our soul's development?
That being at-one with God, our Father, is very important?

I used to think it does. But when I came across Shabda, I was puzzled, because a lot of the things we know to be true, Shabda also has experienced in his travels.

Shabda, thank you for that excellent passage. As you know, I align myself with Christ, and with God's Divine Love, but I value your time, your insights, and your friendship. Please know that.:hug:

[DivineLove]

Hey DivineLove,

this is all true about certain biblical references and scholars.

But there is historical proof that many Jewish tenets followed the beliefs of reincarnation such as the Essenes, Nazarenes, and various others. Where as the Orthodox Judaism was extremely bigoted, conservative, and literal as we see how religion has become. Where as the Essenes of either the Nazarite or other were a lifestyle, a community that was very buddhistic in its way of life. A sense of unity, oneness, spiritual communion with God, and the belief that the messiah would usher in a "spiritual" kingdom. They also believed that the messiah would be the reincarnation of Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek. All of this was FOUND in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the late 40s.

Right before the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and before anyone knew anything about the Essenes, Cayce spoke of Jesus as an Essene who was brought up on their lifestyle.

And Edgar Cayce said that John the Baptist was the Essene leader who was more obsessed with the written law, instead of the law written in our hearts as Jesus spoke. So John was more formal and religious, Jesus was spiritual which is higher.

And Jesus did tell his Apostles that Elijah did come and they did not see him.

Obviously the Christ, the pure and perfect soul of Jesus would know the past lives of his cousin John and all his Apostles and anybody else because he is the greatest entity next to God Himself.

And in Cayce's readings he says that Jesus was Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek in his past incarnations, always as God's Son, pure and perfect.

Another tidbit is that Roman Catholic Church tradition states that Adam's skull was under Golgatha where Jesus died. And in St. Paul's writings Melchizedek is called "a figure of Christ" a type of Christ. And Paul refers to the first Adam (physical) being created by the second Adam (spiritual), but the physical came first, and the spiritual second. So that the second Adam would be the first. ?? What in God's name is Paul talking about? Well, Cayce is very much correct in so many ways even though I do not consciously go around blabbing Jesus having past lives. It seems here that not only was Jesus Adam, but that Jesus as a spiritual being created his own flesh body (Adam) 10,000 something years ago and entered it on his own and experienced flesh and fell/disobeyed, only to obey in his life of Jesus to show mankind how to reverse his disgrace into grace.

Another thing is that when Joshua in the Exodus passed away, he was called God's Branch, the prince of peace, and these would be attributed to the Messiah. Joshua also succeeded Moses and was able to lead the people to Israel and stop the Sun in the sky. Which around 3000 bc, the time Cayce spoke of Joshua's miracle, there is a Chinese tradition that the Sun did something bizarre in that year. Which means Joshua had some divine power. And Cayce attributes Joshua to being one of Jesus' past lives.

Another thing is that later in the Old Testament (I believe psalms), Joshua is given robes a mantle, and crowned by God as h is branch. ????Does this refer to a later episode where he would become the Messiah?

And why did the Vatican delete The Book of Enoch? Because Enoch ascended into Heaven and was crowned an angel or divine being in God's court. And Enoch called himself the Son of Man. And Jesus refers to the Son of Man ascending and descending. Meaning the Church knew damn well that Enoch and Jesus were either two Christs which is not possible, or the same individual. So they s******* the whole thing. Because whether Jesus did or not have past incarnations, he was always the pure son keeping his will in line with the Father's will. Even if he was Enoch or not.

One more thing.--
In the Book of Revelations Jesus tells John in his visions that he too can overcame just as Jesus overcame. And that you would no longer need to be a pillar sent out from the Temple. You shall remain in the temple and go out no more once you overcome..
....???
Well if God is the Temple, the body or Christ and we are souls who go into that universal body, why would we be sent out? And overcome? Jesus overcame in the physical world? Thus it is referring to the soul leaving the body of Christ continuously until all errors and impurities are conquered in the Earth Plane, then the soul forever resides within the Father and partakes of his divinity.

And how in God's name would Cayce be such a fraud if his predictions are 80% accurate? For God's sakes he told the mother of the man who created FM radio that her son would create a radio creation that would network everyone together and become a huge success. Cayce did readings for American Presidents, scientists, and many inventors. He was a spiritual genius.

Cayce in his daily life taught Sunday school and believed that Jesus was God the Son, incarnate, died for our sins, the whole Orthodox Bit. But in his trances, Jesus was the pure and perfected soul who after many lifetimes partook of the Divine when he finished his last life as Christ and ascended to the Father. He was once Adam, Joseph, Melchizedek and a host of others. And the leader of Atlantis when it was created.

So how is that possible?

Amilius, thank you for sharing so much.
I am in the process of looking into a great many things.

Your contribution here, is valuable, and most appreciated!:hug:

[7thHeaven]

[QUOTE=DivineLove]7thHeaven, Shabda is a very interesting person.
He is very kind and considerate, and always offers and shares his
deep insights, with everyone.

This a quality I admire about him.
His practice, has shown him his own understanding of the spirit planes.
He travels extensively.
He is not a Christian, but is nonetheless, a friend, along a common path.

Thank you DivineLove. Has there ever been a topic of discussion on here about this type of travel to the spirit world? This is something I am also interested in. Blessings, 7thHeaven

[Shabda]

7thHeaven, Shabda is a very interesting person.
1.He is very kind and considerate, and always offers and shares his
deep insights, with everyone.

This a quality I admire about him.
His practice, has shown him his own understanding of the spirit planes.
He travels extensively.
He is not a Christian, but is nonetheless, a friend, along a common path.

2.I am not sure, how it is, that he came to the understanding of Divine Love.
But he knows of the great importance of God's Love.

For us 7thHeaven, we are told directly, from the spirit teachings of Jesus and other Celestial Spirits.
If I did not come across these teachings, I would never have understood the great importance that God's Love plays, in the development of the soul.
So I naturally, just followed the advice, of what I perceived to be a much more advanced soul.
And I maintain that practice, every day.

3.Somehow, despite not being rooted in Christianity, or following Jesus's teachings, Shabda, has found much the same.

4.Does it matter, which way we come to this understanding, that God's Love, His Divine Substance, is necessary, for our soul's development?
That being at-one with God, our Father, is very important?

5.I used to think it does. But when I came across Shabda, I was puzzled, because a lot of the things we know to be true, Shabda also has experienced in his travels.

6.Shabda, thank you for that excellent passage. As you know, I align myself with Christ, and with God's Divine Love, but I value your time, your insights, and your friendship. Please know that.:hug:

these are only MY opinions, and explanations in response to your wonderings ok? i want to be clear about that.
1.thank you very much~!
2.i simply asked for the experience of It and how to take It into my heart and still be able to give It...and OH BOY~! these lessons dont always come in an easy or nice way, but It sure did come~!how did i come by It without Jesus? ill answer that further down the list, just know that the lessons DID come, and they were at times EXTREMELY hard to deal with, i had to have some of my rough edges smoothed out i guess, and that surely was done...
3.as answer to this, and the point in number 2...i know many will disagree, and that is fine, but, Jesus doesnt "own" Divine Love, no offense to him or any Christians, but folks in other faiths also find It without Jesus, God is not at all limited in the ways that It can reach souls, and so, God uses a great number of methods to do this, and in this way, is able to touch more souls round the world, than any religion has ever been able to do, even that quote i posted, that you liked so well, was written by a Muslim, and it spoke directly of an aspect of Divine Love, so this is what i mean by there being no "ownership" of Divine Love, if anyone "owns" It, it must be God, and no other...just my opinion however...
4.in my humble opinion, it does not matter, as far as which path or method or Master or teacher, but it DOES matter as to the content, which must be Divine Love in some form or another, for without It, there really cant be much worth learning...again, my opinion...
5.well thank you, i have actually tried to display this very "fact" (as i call it) to you and others, and i am glad that the point found It's way to your heart, and you have some understanding of It, and this being the case, is in my opinion, a considerable bit of advancement, that so many have quite a hard time with, myself included...
6.i know that you do, and as ive said, i have NO problem with Christ, none whatsoever, just with folks that demand that there is NO other way to learn spiritual lessons, those you refer to as fundamentalists, but i forgive them too, they ARE trying after all, and maybe this is why patience is a virtue...and i DO know that, and value your friendship, insights, opinions and experiences as well~!

[DivineLove]

[quote=DivineLove]7thHeaven, Shabda is a very interesting person.
He is very kind and considerate, and always offers and shares his
deep insights, with everyone.

This a quality I admire about him.
His practice, has shown him his own understanding of the spirit planes.
He travels extensively.
He is not a Christian, but is nonetheless, a friend, along a common path.

Thank you DivineLove. Has there ever been a topic of discussion on here about this type of travel to the spirit world? This is something I am also interested in. Blessings, 7thHeaven

7thHeaven,

I think there are many here who have had out of body experiences.

I have lucid dreams quite often.

The last few weeks. It's almost been every night. But I do not travel in any other way.

To my knowledge, Shabda is the only person, who has traveled as extensively. I often turn to him, for insight.

Shabda, I have a question.
You and your wife have seen your past lives.
What about the time spent in the spirit realms?
Have you seen this as well?

And these other lives, that you mentioned, how are they playing a part in this life?

Also, from whom did you learn about Divine Love? And what is your method of acquiring Divine Love?

Jesus teaches, that soulful prayer, is the only method of acquiring God's Divine Love.

In my personal experience, thus far, it is only through prayer, that I am able to receive God's Love. I cannot bypass this process.

Do your travels, put you into contact with God's Love?

[Shabda]

[quote=DivineLove]7thHeaven, Shabda is a very interesting person.
He is very kind and considerate, and always offers and shares his
deep insights, with everyone.

This a quality I admire about him.
His practice, has shown him his own understanding of the spirit planes.
He travels extensively.
He is not a Christian, but is nonetheless, a friend, along a common path.

Thank you DivineLove. Has there ever been a topic of discussion on here about this type of travel to the spirit world? This is something I am also interested in. Blessings, 7thHeaven
there are some threads about astral projection, which is a start, but one can always go beyond that level also...if you would like, you can PM me with any questions, and i will share what i know of it thus far...

[Shabda]

[quote=7thHeaven]

7thHeaven,

I think there are many here who have had out of body experiences.

I have lucid dreams quite often.

The last few weeks. It's almost been every night. But I do not travel in any other way.

To my knowledge, Shabda is the only person, who has traveled as extensively. I often turn to him, for insight.

Shabda, I have a question.
1.You and your wife have seen your past lives.
What about the time spent in the spirit realms?
Have you seen this as well?

2.And these other lives, that you mentioned, how are they playing a part in this life?

3.Also, from whom did you learn about Divine Love? And what is your method of acquiring Divine Love?

4.Jesus teaches, that soulful prayer, is the only method of acquiring God's Divine Love.

In my personal experience, thus far, it is only through prayer, that I am able to receive God's Love. I cannot bypass this process.

5.Do your travels, put you into contact with God's Love?

1.yes, only in part, a very short part really, a place for reunification for family/friends, and for looking over the mistakes made in the previous life, what must yet be learned, and what debts are yet to be paid...
2.they play a part via karma, debts owed or yet to be collected...the debts owed are simply lessons, learning these lessons and implementing them into one's life eradicates the debt. debts owed to the individual, usually termed as "good" karma tend to show up as spiritual benefits and experiences, one of which is to be able to decide what mission will be accepted in the next incarnation, what karmas will be attempted to be burnt off, and even who the life will be spent with, in various ways...
3.from a group of souls that has attained the top of the climb,God Realization, the reason for this being that they are able to guide around the various pitfalls that can exist, and also that they can guide in such a way that all karmas can be burned off in a single lifetime, removing any reason for reincarnation...
4.i dont disagree completely with that teaching, but i do in part, the part i disagree with is that this prayer is the ONLY way of having It interact with you, but at the same time, the prayer is necesary to begin, because soil has free will, therefore soul must ask for help, as none will be given unless asked for first, therefore, i see this prayer as a heartfelt asking to learn about Divine Love, and this is exactly what i did at one point...the lessons are still going strong however~!
5.yes they do, because there really is no way they cannot...God's Love is ALL that IS, there is nowhere that It is not, and i mean that literally...

[Roseburn]

.
Do you really think multicultural societies work?

I'm from a multicultural society, and sadly, it doesn't work. It's complicated to explain how it is, actually.

[DivineLove]

these are only MY opinions, and explanations in response to your wonderings ok? i want to be clear about that.
1.thank you very much~!
2.i simply asked for the experience of It and how to take It into my heart and still be able to give It...and OH BOY~! these lessons dont always come in an easy or nice way, but It sure did come~!how did i come by It without Jesus? ill answer that further down the list, just know that the lessons DID come, and they were at times EXTREMELY hard to deal with, i had to have some of my rough edges smoothed out i guess, and that surely was done...
3.as answer to this, and the point in number 2...i know many will disagree, and that is fine, but, Jesus doesnt "own" Divine Love, no offense to him or any Christians, but folks in other faiths also find It without Jesus, God is not at all limited in the ways that It can reach souls, and so, God uses a great number of methods to do this, and in this way, is able to touch more souls round the world, than any religion has ever been able to do, even that quote i posted, that you liked so well, was written by a Muslim, and it spoke directly of an aspect of Divine Love, so this is what i mean by there being no "ownership" of Divine Love, if anyone "owns" It, it must be God, and no other...just my opinion however...
4.in my humble opinion, it does not matter, as far as which path or method or Master or teacher, but it DOES matter as to the content, which must be Divine Love in some form or another, for without It, there really cant be much worth learning...again, my opinion...
5.well thank you, i have actually tried to display this very "fact" (as i call it) to you and others, and i am glad that the point found It's way to your heart, and you have some understanding of It, and this being the case, is in my opinion, a considerable bit of advancement, that so many have quite a hard time with, myself included...
6.i know that you do, and as ive said, i have NO problem with Christ, none whatsoever, just with folks that demand that there is NO other way to learn spiritual lessons, those you refer to as fundamentalists, but i forgive them too, they ARE trying after all, and maybe this is why patience is a virtue...and i DO know that, and value your friendship, insights, opinions and experiences as well~!

Great post Shabda, thank you brother!:hug:

I agree, and I don't think that anyone would claim that Jesus owns Divine Love.
Who can own God's Love?
God shares His Love, with His children. But I do not think ownership is in question at all.
It is God's Love, that we are all seeking.
God owns, and share His Love. And Jesus, is a human being, who came into the Fullness of God's Divine Love, while in the flesh.
I don't think he ever implied ownership, as far as the bible goes, and certainly not in these channeled teachings.
He merely showed us, that he was in the full possession of God's Love.
And then endeavored to show the rest of humanity, how to reach this at-one-ment.

For us Shabda, who do not travel, in the way you do.
These teachings from Jesus and the Celestial Spirits, they have shown us the importance of God's Divine Love. They have clarified aspects of the bible, that before these teachings, remained unclear.

This clarity, that Jesus brings, to the bible, and then furthers our understanding of the spirit realms, and how it is God's Divine Love, that we are to seek, if we are seeking at-one-ment with the Father.

It really stands out, in comparison to all other teachings.
So for us, Christians, Jesus is a great teacher. And his qualifications, as the Son of God, and his knowledge that he shares of God, and the process of Christ, this sets him apart, from a Christian perspective.

On your point, about God not withholding His Love, and that God will reach people, better than religion. There is great truth in this.

Religion, was not at all attractive to me. It was these teachings, which spoke of the Great Love of Our Holy Father, that drew me to this practice.

And on this note, I wish to share my impressions of the Gnostic works that I have been reading, the last few days.

I cannot say, that from what I have read, there is thus far, any great resonance of Love, or Divine Love.

I am Greek by heritage. The word "gnosis" is correctly translated as wisdom or knowledge or "Enlightenment", if you will. When a person is referred to as a "gnostos". He is a friend, an acquaintance, someone familiar.
The Greeks, in all of their wonderful contributions towards math, philosophy, politics, as there were many.
But in terms of the soul, and spirituality. I find this gnostic material, bereft of any Great Love.

I will keep reading, and will be thorough, in my inquiry.

Shabda, you Faith is not Christian, but you have found the importance of Divine Love.

It seems that no matter which way we look at it, God is LOVE. Eternal LOVE.

Jesus's words speak of This Love, in the bible. His words speak of it, in these channeled teachings.

You have found it, in your impressive journeys. Most insightful.:hug:

But this Gnostic material, that was intentionally kept out of Bible. I do not sense any Great Love, in this material.
Great knowledge perhaps. But not Great Love.

God's Love and Blessings to All!:hug3:

[Shabda]

Great post Shabda, thank you brother!:hug:

I agree, and I don't think that anyone would claim that Jesus owns Divine Love.
Who can own God's Love?
God shares His Love, with His children. But I do not think ownership is in question at all.
It is God's Love, that we are all seeking.
God owns, and share His Love. And Jesus, is a human being, who came into the Fullness of God's Divine Love, while in the flesh.
I don't think he ever implied ownership, as far as the bible goes, and certainly not in these channeled teachings.
He merely showed us, that he was in the full possession of God's Love.
And then endeavored to show the rest of humanity, how to reach this at-one-ment.

For us Shabda, who do not travel, in the way you do.
These teachings from Jesus and the Celestial Spirits, they have shown us the importance of God's Divine Love. They have clarified aspects of the bible, that before these teachings, remained unclear.

This clarity, that Jesus brings, to the bible, and then furthers our understanding of the spirit realms, and how it is God's Divine Love, that we are to seek, if we are seeking at-one-ment with the Father.

It really stands out, in comparison to all other teachings.
So for us, Christians, Jesus is a great teacher. And his qualifications, as the Son of God, and his knowledge that he shares of God, and the process of Christ, this sets him apart, from a Christian perspective.

On your point, about God not withholding His Love, and that God will reach people, better than religion. There is great truth in this.

Religion, was not at all attractive to me. It was these teachings, which spoke of the Great Love of Our Holy Father, that drew me to this practice.

And on this note, I wish to share my impressions of the Gnostic works that I have been reading, the last few days.

I cannot say, that from what I have read, there is thus far, any great resonance of Love, or Divine Love.

I am Greek by heritage. The word "gnosis" is correctly translated as wisdom or knowledge or "Enlightenment", if you will. When a person is referred to as a "gnostos". He is a friend, an acquaintance, someone familiar.
The Greeks, in all of their wonderful contributions towards math, philosophy, politics, as there were many.
But in terms of the soul, and spirituality. I find this gnostic material, bereft of any Great Love.

I will keep reading, and will be thorough, in my inquiry.

Shabda, you Faith is not Christian, but you have found the importance of Divine Love.

It seems that no matter which way we look at it, God is LOVE. Eternal LOVE.

Jesus's words speak of This Love, in the bible. His words speak of it, in these channeled teachings.

You have found it, in your impressive journeys. Most insightful.:hug:

But this Gnostic material, that was intentionally kept out of Bible. I do not sense any Great Love, in this material.
Great knowledge perhaps. But not Great Love.

God's Love and Blessings to All!:hug3:
i did not mean to imply that Jesus claimed any ownerchip of Divine Love, in fact i was going to say that IMHO, he would likely laugh at any such question, finding the misunderstanding somewhat amusing...it is rather, those within religion, who feel that their interpretation of the bible is the most correct one, that tend to act as if Jesus has some sort of ownership of Divine Love, sorry, i should have been more clear about that...i know that the Gnostic texts are rather dry reading, but they do have a thing in common with me, and that is the attempt to leave the body to be taught by Spirit (at least some of the gnostic groups do, they vary widely) and also there are the Kabbalists in Judaism, and the Sufis in Islam that tend to work in this way...if you liked that Inayat Hazrat Kahn quote i posted earlier tis week, i suggest you read also some of Jallal u'Din'l Rumi's works, in them you will certainly find Divine Love as a major topic, much of his writings are specifically about this in fact, here is a link for your study if you wish...
http://www.littleknownpubs.com/RumiIntro.htm this is the intro, the table of contents is at the bottom...Jesus is at times mentioned in these writings, he being considered a prophet of Islam...

[DivineLove]

[quote=DivineLove]

1.yes, only in part, a very short part really, a place for reunification for family/friends, and for looking over the mistakes made in the previous life, what must yet be learned, and what debts are yet to be paid...
2.they play a part via karma, debts owed or yet to be collected...the debts owed are simply lessons, learning these lessons and implementing them into one's life eradicates the debt. debts owed to the individual, usually termed as "good" karma tend to show up as spiritual benefits and experiences, one of which is to be able to decide what mission will be accepted in the next incarnation, what karmas will be attempted to be burnt off, and even who the life will be spent with, in various ways...
3.from a group of souls that has attained the top of the climb,God Realization, the reason for this being that they are able to guide around the various pitfalls that can exist, and also that they can guide in such a way that all karmas can be burned off in a single lifetime, removing any reason for reincarnation...
4.i dont disagree completely with that teaching, but i do in part, the part i disagree with is that this prayer is the ONLY way of having It interact with you, but at the same time, the prayer is necesary to begin, because soil has free will, therefore soul must ask for help, as none will be given unless asked for first, therefore, i see this prayer as a heartfelt asking to learn about Divine Love, and this is exactly what i did at one point...the lessons are still going strong however~!
5.yes they do, because there really is no way they cannot...God's Love is ALL that IS, there is nowhere that It is not, and i mean that literally...

Shabda, it is hard not to be interested in the insights you share.:hug:

I find, that is aligns beautifully, with most of what I know, yet also stands apart.

Can you define, as per your Faith, what God Realization means? And how this plays a role, in ceasing the cycle of re-incarnation?

For example, the Christians who seek God's Divine Love, as I do, daily.
Jesus teaches, that this is a gradual process, which we continue into the spirit world, which will lead to at-one-ment with God. We receive His Divine Love here, while in the flesh, but as to becoming fully Divine, this happens on what the Celestials refer to as the 7th sphere, or the last natural sphere, before a soul becomes fully divine, and gains entrance into the Celestial Heavens, where only the souls that are fully Divine, fully at-one with God, can reside. This is the place that Jesus is Master of.

How do these souls, who teach you, appear to you? In which form? Spirit body? Astral body? As just pure soul?

What is their knowledge of Jesus, and where is their place of habitation, in relation to where Jesus resides? Or this place, that is called, the Celestial Heavens, where only the Divine Souls, may reside?

In these teachings, both Jesus and other Celestial Spirits like Judas explain, that in their true state, within the Celestial Heavens, they exist as pure souls. They project the spirit body, when they descend to work on the lower spheres, or natural spheres.

The more you share Shabda, the more questions we are going to have!:hug:

Once again, thanking you from a sincere place brother. I respect and value your time.:hug3:

[Perspective]

Why does it always have to be God's Master Plan in Jesus. Or in this one or that one.
Why can't it be God's Master Plan in You?
What is so hard for people to believe the real truth that Christ is the real Self, the new Self, the true Self. Truth, Way, Life, Light are all Christ. I agree.
It's not so much "Jesus" or "Buddha" - but the spiritual resonating within. In Near Death Experiences, people have interpreted spiritual guides according to their religious beliefs. Jesus' last name isn't Christ. Christ is who he became. He tried to teach, & often used parables, so that all could understand, according to their level/ability.

I learned a new way of seeing Christianity through "Putting on the Mind of Christ." Jim Marion discussed why he believed in reincarnation, but he also mentioned that a belief in reincarnation was not necessary for salvation. I can see that we need to focus on the task at hand in this life, but I also wonder if there are "shadow" issues from previous lives that also need attention. The concept of reincarnation is still new to me - so still learning.

Scriptures related to reincarnation: John 9:1: "Who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?"

Mark 8:27-28: "Who do people say I am?"
"Some say you are John the Baptist. Others say that you are Elijah, while others say that you are one of the prophets."

Matt 11:14: "If you will receive it, this is Elijah, who is to come."

Revelation 3:12 "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it."

[Katiecat]

I am a Christian, and I believe in reincarnation. It's all through the Bible. You can google about it...but one obvious reference to it is Elijah / John the Baptist. In the Old Testament, it is prophesied that Elijah would return to pave the way for the Messiah....then
John the Baptist announced that his mission was to pave the way for the Messiah.People were not paying proper attention.
Then people started asking Jesus if he was Elijah, and Jesus told them no, and that they had missed him, that it was John the Baptist.

There are many other examples. But it's too much to type on a cell phone .

Many Christians deny that is not a good example of reincarnation because Elijah did not sure a physical death, he was taken up....my only explanation for that is that Elijah raised his vibration to the point he was translucent....or something, I don't know it all. Most people in the Christian circle of friends that I have think I'm weird...and they probably pray for me. I even believe in the existence of UFOs in the Bible (chariots of fire, Jacob's ladder, etc.). These are my favorite topics of conversation, when it does not turn into a bitter argument.....where I always back down because I could be wrong, plus I hate drama.

[Shabda]

[quote=Shabda]

Shabda, it is hard not to be interested in the insights you share.:hug:

I find, that is aligns beautifully, with most of what I know, yet also stands apart.

Can you define, as per your Faith, what God Realization means? And how this plays a role, in ceasing the cycle of re-incarnation?

For example, the Christians who seek God's Divine Love, as I do, daily.
Jesus teaches, that this is a gradual process, which we continue into the spirit world, which will lead to at-one-ment with God. We receive His Divine Love here, while in the flesh, but as to becoming fully Divine, this happens on what the Celestials refer to as the 7th sphere, or the last natural sphere, before a soul becomes fully divine, and gains entrance into the Celestial Heavens, where only the souls that are fully Divine, fully at-one with God, can reside. This is the place that Jesus is Master of.

How do these souls, who teach you, appear to you? In which form? Spirit body? Astral body? As just pure soul?

What is their knowledge of Jesus, and where is their place of habitation, in relation to where Jesus resides? Or this place, that is called, the Celestial Heavens, where only the Divine Souls, may reside?

In these teachings, both Jesus and other Celestial Spirits like Judas explain, that in their true state, within the Celestial Heavens, they exist as pure souls. They project the spirit body, when they descend to work on the lower spheres, or natural spheres.

The more you share Shabda, the more questions we are going to have!:hug:

Once again, thanking you from a sincere place brother. I respect and value your time.:hug3:
first a drawing lol, of the various planes of existence, to make some of my point...self realization comes first, the realization that one is soul, not the mental concept but the viewing from the eyes of soul in its true state, after this one keeps working on developing, until coming to the beginnings of God Realization on the 9th plane, which continues up until the 12th plane, where the fullness and the understanding of God Realization reaches It's climax, whereby one is able to hear Spirits commands, and consciously work with It...i hadnt wanted to say this as it may be taken offensively by some, but Jesus was taught in this method, but left it at an early age, he was considered to be initiated into the 2nd level, the astral plane, which doesnt by any means mean he is still there either, but this is the point of view of my path, so none are expected to agree or adopt this viewpoint....


--------------------------------------------
the 12th plane, the literal home of the Absolute, where Soul may come "face to face" with It, and realize that Soul is but a "particle" of the body of this Absolute, a part of It, but not It itself, at this point becomes able to become a conscious co-worker with God, however, this is not the end, there is always another level to travel to and explore...
----------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
this plane is the area that Soul realizes it is a part of the Holy Ghost or Spirit, and that all other Souls are as well
---------------------------------------

-----------------------------------
Soul plane the True Heaven, beyond duality, home of Sat Nam, the lowest manifestation of the Absolute, self realization as i know it occurs here
----------------------------------------
etheric (sub conscious)plane
---------------------------------
mental plane Jehova "god" with a form, also satan, one and the same, soul's "drill instructor" teaching soul lesson thru it's various incarnations
--------------------------------------
causal (memory,lower mental)plane
--------------------------------
astral (emotional) plane
----------------------------------
physical plane

[Shabda]

more questions??? that never bothers me, if nothing else, i am teaching you about another's point of view, one you may not be familiar with, so it's all worthwhile...

[Katiecat]

No, john the baptist was Not elijah....your not understanding reincarnation. Elijah and JTB had the same spirit and soul...not the same body or personality. JBT was Elijah reincarnated.

Ok, this is something that I found, in reference to the Bible and re-incarnation.

Question: "What does the Bible say about reincarnation?"

Answer: The concept of reincarnation is completely without foundation in the Bible, which clearly tells us that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Hebrews%209.27)). The Bible never mentions people having a second chance at life or coming back as different people or animals. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Luke%2023.43)), not "You will have another chance to live a life on this earth." Matthew 25:46 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew%2025.46) specifically tells us that believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go onto eternal punishment. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

The one passage that some point to as evidence for reincarnation is Matthew 17:10-12 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew%2017.10-12) which links John the Baptist with Elijah. However, the passage does not say that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated but that he would have fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah's coming if the people had believed his words and thereby believed in Jesus as the Messiah (Matthew 17:12 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew%2017.12)). The people specifically asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, "No, I am not" (John 1:21 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/John%201.21)).

Belief in reincarnation is an ancient phenomenon and is a central tenet within the majority of Indian religious traditions, such as Hinduism (http://www.gotquestions.org/hinduism.html), Sikhism (http://www.gotquestions.org/Sikhism.html), and Jainism (http://www.gotquestions.org/Jainism.html). Many modern pagans also believe in reincarnation as do some New Age movements, along with followers of spiritism. For the Christian, however, there can be no doubt: reincarnation is unbiblical and must be rejected as false.(GOTTA LOVE FUNDAMENTALISM!!!:hug:)

[Katiecat]

Hi Shabda, I like this ' drawing'.

But I want to add one thing....just to help make it clear. The spirit we all have is different from the soul. The spirit is the direct fragment of God the we have in us...it connects us all.
The soul is an image of the spirit that connects to the earthly plane...our higher selves. Then we have a personality that remains with our earthly body.....which we shed with our earthly bodies.





[quote=DivineLove]
first a drawing lol, of the various planes of existence, to make some of my point...self realization comes first, the realization that one is soul, not the mental concept but the viewing from the eyes of soul in its true state, after this one keeps working on developing, until coming to the beginnings of God Realization on the 9th plane, which continues up until the 12th plane, where the fullness and the understanding of God Realization reaches It's climax, whereby one is able to hear Spirits commands, and consciously work with It...i hadnt wanted to say this as it may be taken offensively by some, but Jesus was taught in this method, but left it at an early age, he was considered to be initiated into the 2nd level, the astral plane, which doesnt by any means mean he is still there either, but this is the point of view of my path, so none are expected to agree or adopt this viewpoint....


--------------------------------------------
the 12th plane, the literal home of the Absolute, where Soul may come "face to face" with It, and realize that Soul is but a "particle" of the body of this Absolute, a part of It, but not It itself, at this point becomes able to become a conscious co-worker with God, however, this is not the end, there is always another level to travel to and explore...
----------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
this plane is the area that Soul realizes it is a part of the Holy Ghost or Spirit, and that all other Souls are as well
---------------------------------------

-----------------------------------
Soul plane the True Heaven, beyond duality, home of Sat Nam, the lowest manifestation of the Absolute, self realization as i know it occurs here
----------------------------------------
etheric (sub conscious)plane
---------------------------------
mental plane Jehova "god" with a form, also satan, one and the same, soul's "drill instructor" teaching soul lesson thru it's various incarnations
--------------------------------------
causal (memory,lower mental)plane
--------------------------------
astral (emotional) plane
----------------------------------
physical plane

[Shabda]

Hi Shabda, I like this ' drawing'.

But I want to add one thing....just to help make it clear. The spirit we all have is different from the soul. The spirit is the direct fragment of God the we have in us...it connects us all.
The soul is an image of the spirit that connects to the earthly plane...our higher selves. Then we have a personality that remains with our earthly body.....which we shed with our earthly bodies.
i respectfully disagree, the Soul is the True form, on each lower plane there is a "spirit body" that is identical to our human form, when speaking of the Holy Spirit, there is again another different definition, It is the literal Voice of God, and of It each Soul is made...this is what my experiences have taught me anyways, you may differ in your point of view, im not sure, but feel free to~!

[Fresco]

I didnt at first, but now I'm keeping a more open mind after reading this: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.near-death.com%2Fexperiences%2Forigen03.html)

[DivineLove]

Hi Shabda, I like this ' drawing'.

But I want to add one thing....just to help make it clear. The spirit we all have is different from the soul. The spirit is the direct fragment of God the we have in us...it connects us all.
The soul is an image of the spirit that connects to the earthly plane...our higher selves. Then we have a personality that remains with our earthly body.....which we shed with our earthly bodies.

KatieCat,

I would have to agree with Shabda, about the soul being the truest part of who we are.

Jesus teaches, in these channeled teachings, that we have the spirit body, as a covering, for the soul, when we leave the flesh body behind.

But that at the highest levels, even the spirit body is not utilized, and they remain in their natural state, as pure soul.

The different bodies, flesh, then spirit, are clearly like vehicles, and we shed them, as we move onwards, and make further progress.

[Katiecat]

I didnt at first, but now I'm keeping a more open mind after reading this: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.near-death.com%2Fexperiences%2Forigen03.html)


Great article....the best I have read, actually. I hope everyone chooses to read it.

[Fresco]

Great article....the best I have read, actually. I hope everyone chooses to read it.
They make some good points, but I'm still far from convinced reincarnation is real though.

I just keep a more open mind to it now

[7thHeaven]

[QUOTE=Amilius777]



If there is no such thing as Karma, then Moses is a LIAR! His entire writing of the Law is about cause and effect.

Hi Amilius7777. You have a lot of great questions and I too believe that our souls existed with God prior to incarnation of our physical bodies here on Earth. I just wanted to touch on a subject that I have learned through Padgett's teachings which seem to make a lot of sense to me and how I feel that God's Divine love has washed away many of my trespasses.

I completely agree with cause and effect. The Padgett Messages refers to it as the Law of Compensation.

Reincarnation is that we would get more chances to come back and get it right... If God gave us a hundred or a million chances we would never get it right. It is our Faith in the teachings of Jesus who is the only one who ever got it right and the Divine Love that will cleanse our soul and make us at-one with Him that will make it all right here on Earth and then as we progress towards our Heavently Father in the Spirit World.

This is in effect the Law of Compensation: that when a person has committed sins on earth, the Law demands that he must pay the penalty of these sins until there has been full expiation , or until the Law is satisfied. The key-phrase here is "until the Law is satisfied". For next to the long expiatory way of satisfying the Law, where sins have to be paid for to the last farthing, thus bringing with it forgiveness in the end, there is a Higher Law, the Law of Love, which can bring about Divine Forgiveness. Because when one receives the Divine Love, that soul then become sinless to the degree it has received this Divine Love. Sin is being removed, as we read in Romans 8:11, "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live."

[7thHeaven]

Amilius, I have been reading through some of the posts and see that you are already familiar with Padgett's teachings and that you may have already read about the Law of Compensation. I was wondering what your thoughts are on that as you are also a follower of Cayce and I am not to sure what his beliefs were with respect to reaping what we sow, etc.

[Katiecat]

[QUOTE=DivineLove]KatieCat,

I would have to agree with Shabda, about the soul being the truest part of who we are.

Jesus teaches, in these channeled teachings, that we have the spirit body, as a covering, for the soul, when we leave the flesh body behind.

But that at the highest levels, even the spirit body is not utilized, and they remain in their natural state, as pure soul.

The different bodies, flesh, then spirit, are clearly like vehicles, and we shed them, as we move onwards, and make further progress.[/QUO

Lol, m'kay, we don't shed our spirits. I never said that our souls were not our truest self..
i said that our spirits are a direct fragment of God...

I'm now unsubscribing to this thread. While I respect other views, and am open to them, tired

[Katiecat]

Ok my phone messed up.... As I was saying, I'm unsubscribing because I feel my words are being twisted. And I'm not interested in debate....I'm far too sensitive. So I respectfully decline. Peace to you all.

[Shabda]

Ok my phone messed up.... As I was saying, I'm unsubscribing because I feel my words are being twisted. And I'm not interested in debate....I'm far too sensitive. So I respectfully decline. Peace to you all.
aww c'mon, dont let anyone drive you away, your views are respected and you have every right to have your own views, please stay and enjoy the forums...:hug3:

[Shabda]

[quote=DivineLove]KatieCat,

I would have to agree with Shabda, about the soul being the truest part of who we are.

Jesus teaches, in these channeled teachings, that we have the spirit body, as a covering, for the soul, when we leave the flesh body behind.

But that at the highest levels, even the spirit body is not utilized, and they remain in their natural state, as pure soul.

The different bodies, flesh, then spirit, are clearly like vehicles, and we shed them, as we move onwards, and make further progress.[/QUO

Lol, m'kay, we don't shed our spirits. I never said that our souls were not our truest self..
i said that our spirits are a direct fragment of God...

I'm now unsubscribing to this thread. While I respect other views, and am open to them, tired
i agree with you completely on this point....its very easy to misunderstand a person's point and/or views on a forum such as this, please feel welcome to expand upon the explanation of your point of view~! and please dont take any offense to anything ive said, i didnt mean it in such a way...im not even a christian myself, so my views have nothing to do with anyone but myself, and many do disagree with me about my views, and that is as it should be...

[Heimlich]

I am a Christian, and I believe in reincarnation.
..my only explanation for that is that Elijah raised his vibration to the point he was translucent....or something, I don't know it all. Most people in the Christian circle of friends that I have think I'm weird....

you might be on to something...check this out: btw I hope you really didn't leave this site...

Everything in the universe is a form of light (or waves of motion). God creates using what he is, light. Everything in the universe is trying to find balance. Radiation (light) leaves an object (or rather reflects away) and also reflects back to the object. When the light returns to the object that set it in motion, it compresses back to its original shape and causes what we call gravity. Gravity on earth is a result of everything trying to find balance.

This push and pull reflection process of everything trying to find balance is Gods way of creating. Everything from atoms to planets are forms of light trying to find balance. These opposites trying to find balance generate an electromagnetic field that always has a goal to try to find balance. Look at how electrons and protons work. They try to find balance because of the unbalanced quarks they are made of.

One everyday example is to take a hot cup of coffee and leave it sit. It cools down because it is finding balance with the room temperature. This same balance law applies to everything including all of us with our relationships with others and with God. We should always be looking for balance with God.

For more information: whataretimewaves.com

[7thHeaven]

[QUOTE=DivineLove]KatieCat,

I would have to agree with Shabda, about the soul being the truest part of who we are.

Jesus teaches, in these channeled teachings, that we have the spirit body, as a covering, for the soul, when we leave the flesh body behind.

But that at the highest levels, even the spirit body is not utilized, and they remain in their natural state, as pure soul.

The different bodies, flesh, then spirit, are clearly like vehicles, and we shed them, as we move onwards, and make further progress.[/QUO

Lol, m'kay, we don't shed our spirits. I never said that our souls were not our truest self..
i said that our spirits are a direct fragment of God...

I'm now unsubscribing to this thread. While I respect other views, and am open to them, tired

Yes Katiecat, I 100 pct believe in your post here as well. We are first soul, we are incarnated into flesh and when we leave this Earth we leave with our spirit body protecting our soul until we progress to the stage where we no longer require the spirit body and we are just wonderful loving god filled souls :) I believe at this point we have shed anything that remotely resembles anything negative and we are in total harmony with Gods' Laws of the Universe. Many blessings to you Katiecat!

[DivineLove]

Ok my phone messed up.... As I was saying, I'm unsubscribing because I feel my words are being twisted. And I'm not interested in debate....I'm far too sensitive. So I respectfully decline. Peace to you all.

Katiecat,

We :love9: YOU!

The best part, is making up. Let us all come together, and
show Katiecat, Spiritual Forum LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!:hug:

ps. We are literally the same age.
That's like cosmic or something, right???????

[DivineLove]

[quote=Katiecat]
...im not even a christian myself...

Shabda, you realize you're like going straight to HELL right???????????
LOL!!!:smile:

There is still time, to save your soul brother.

But we must act quickly. Because the temperature, is RISING!!!!!!
(Getting HOTTER, more INFERNAL.)
:wink:

[Amilius777]

Child Remembers Past Lives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF3KqGpxXvo


Paul Von Ward on Reincarnation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5-sO3gDm9E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBzicpmxNNE&feature=related

BBC on Reincarnation (ignore the beginning lol!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OarxB-dsK8U

Not too sure on this guy's past life, but what he says is completely True-
(John of Peniel)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlkrZt0onH4

Just a few tidbits.

[Shabda]

[quote=Shabda]

Shabda, you realize you're like going straight to HELL right???????????
LOL!!!:smile:

There is still time, to save your soul brother.

But we must act quickly. Because the temperature, is RISING!!!!!!
(Getting HOTTER, more INFERNAL.)
:wink:
actually, ive been there...they kicked me out for peeing on the fire...such nerve~! can you believe that??

[Perry J]

From the ARJ site again:

"It is a historical fact that one of the people who was instrumental in having the church ban the idea of reincarnation was the wife of the Roman emperor Justinian. Her name was Theodora, and she did not like the idea that she could be punished for her actions in a future life. Therefore, she used her considerable influence to start the process that eventually caused the Roman Catholic church to remove all traces, or almost all traces, of reincarnation from Christianity.

Theodora was a living example of how a power elite responds to the idea of reincarnation. First of all, a member of this power elite does not like the idea that they cannot escape punishment. Yet, beyond that personal concern, they have another reason why they do not want people to believe in the idea of reincarnation."

http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealjesus/jesusanswers/byjesus/Teachreincarn.html

[Heimlich]

From the ARJ site again:

"It is a historical fact that one of the people who was instrumental in having the church ban the idea of reincarnation was the wife of the Roman emperor Justinian. Her name was Theodora, and she did not like the idea that she could be punished for her actions in a future life. Therefore, she used her considerable influence to start the process that eventually caused the Roman Catholic church to remove all traces, or almost all traces, of reincarnation from Christianity.

Theodora was a living example of how a power elite responds to the idea of reincarnation. First of all, a member of this power elite does not like the idea that they cannot escape punishment. Yet, beyond that personal concern, they have another reason why they do not want people to believe in the idea of reincarnation."



good stuff - thanks for sharing

[AngelBreeze]

No, I do not believe in reincarnation at all. As a Christian, we believe in RESURRECTION, not reincarnation. Jesus Christ resurrected. He did not reincarnate and neither will we.

The following Scriptures speak to we having only One life, not life after life that would afford us a chance to come back time and time again and continue sinning, without repercussions, until we get it right. I firmly believe that is why we have and will have just one life and that is the one we have right now. That is why it is direly important to do good unto others now in our only life. There will be no more chances to return and 'try a little harder' to amend our bad ways. But with the hypothesis of reincarnation, the possibility would certainly exist for one to continue sinning (since no one is perfect) knowing that we can have more chances or "lives" to return and continue to try to get it right, therefore, what would be the incentive to bother trying to be good at present.

Please read these Scriptures that further illustrate the message and point I follow. If I did not present these Scriptures, there might be those who would say it was just my own subjective way of thinking which might not carry any weight. But to we Christians, these words are very meaningful and powerful and I, for one, believe in their eternal wisdom.

"And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation." -- HEBREWS 9:27-28 (KJV)

"Jesus said unto her, I Am The Resurrection, And The Life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." -- JOHN 11:25-26 (KJV)

"There is One body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope of your calling; One Lord, One faith, One baptism, One God and Father of All who is above all, and through all, and in you all." -- EPHESIANS 4:4-6 (KJV)

The key word here is "One". Therefore, we don't have and will not have 'multiple' bodies to return to Earth in the future or more than one spirit, nor 'continuing i.e., past lives', nor 'reincarnation.'

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Shabda]

No, I do not believe in reincarnation at all. As a Christian, we believe in RESURRECTION, not reincarnation. Jesus Christ resurrected. He did not reincarnate and neither will we.

The following Scriptures speak to we having only One life, not life after life that would afford us a chance to come back time and time again and continue sinning, without repercussions, until we get it right. I firmly believe that is why we have and will have just one life and that is the one we have right now. That is why it is direly important to do good unto others now in our only life. There will be no more chances to return and 'try a little harder' to amend our bad ways. But with the hypothesis of reincarnation, the possibility would certainly exist for one to continue sinning (since no one is perfect) knowing that we can have more chances or "lives" to return and continue to try to get it right, therefore, what would be the incentive to bother trying to be good at present.

Please read these Scriptures that further illustrate the message and point I follow. If I did not present these Scriptures, there might be those who would say it was just my own subjective way of thinking which might not carry any weight. But to we Christians, these words are very meaningful and powerful and I, for one, believe in their eternal wisdom.

"And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation." -- HEBREWS 9:27-28 (KJV)

"Jesus said unto her, I Am The Resurrection, And The Life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." -- JOHN 11:25-26 (KJV)

"There is One body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope of your calling; One Lord, One faith, One baptism, One God and Father of All who is above all, and through all, and in you all." -- EPHESIANS 4:4-6 (KJV)

The key word here is "One". Therefore, we don't have and will not have 'multiple' bodies to return to Earth in the future or more than one spirit, nor 'continuing i.e., past lives', nor 'reincarnation.'

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze
you must understand though, that this is YOUR interpretation of the bible...

[nephesh]

Interesting thread. I do believe in reincarnation can and does happen and I am a Christian. I think souls can choice to return that no one is forced to come back to a physical life.

Nice videos Amilius777

[Perry J]

There are really some passages left in the Bible that's hard to explain if you deny reincarnation, (But of course they do their best)
From John 9:1 we have:

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

If reincarnation is unthinkable, how then could they ask such a question?

Reicarnation makes sense. Everything else are Catholic lies.

[DivineLove]

[quote=DivineLove]
actually, ive been there...they kicked me out for peeing on the fire...such nerve~! can you believe that??

Shabda, the sheer kindness of your gesture, the desire to "dim the fire", so to speak, shows great promise.

I believe we may find a Christian in you yet! :smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

There are really some passages left in the Bible that's hard to explain if you deny reincarnation, (But of course they do their best)
From John 9:1 we have:

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
If reincarnation is unthinkable, how then could they ask such a question...The major point tho is why didn't Jesus say, "WHAT are you talking about?!" and chide them?"
Reincarnation makes sense. Everything else are Catholic lies.
Or Justinian lies or mistakes that all agreed upon at the Nicene Counsel, right?


"Who do they say that I am?' Well, some say you are Elias or Jerimias or other prophets... Matt 16 ---remember...? I see that happening at Caesarea Philippi, right?m Sorry, off the top.

But in the end it doesn't make a difference- - it's what is in your heart that counts.
:smile: That's all I care about, most of my friends think God is a Blue Boy with a flute.

[AngelBreeze]

you must understand though, that this is YOUR interpretation of the bible...

Not 'my' interpretation since the Bible is very clear in what it's saying and speaks well for itself. All one has to do is open their eyes to see what it is telling you and not be in denial about the Truth presented. However, if people would rather put their faith into something like reincarnation over Heavenly Salvation, they do so at their own risk with their free will. At any rate, there are consequences to one's actions be they concerning the right interpretation or a mis-interpretation.

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Miss Hepburn]

Not 'my' interpretation since the Bible is very clear in what it's saying and speaks well for itself. All one has to do is open their eyes to see what it is telling you and not be in denial about the Truth presented.
However, if people would rather put their faith into something like reincarnation over Heavenly Salvation, they do so at their own risk with their free will.
At any rate, there are consequences to one's actions be they concerning the right interpretation or a mis-interpretation.

(We've never met - I love Jesus and I worship the Christ in him.)


Moving on, I'm glad someone thinks the Bible is "very clear".
Give me a minute - I may come up with a parable I'd like you to
explain - and I am not being sarcastic - lighthearted - only.

Gee, I could start with what's called the sermon on the mount...I'd like any pastor here to answer what is meant by - "Those that mourn shall be comforted..." Matt 5.
What is meant by that? And any pastor that has tried to comfort a mother or a wife that has mourned - tell me how any words in the Bible said by anyone ever comforted them ----or you.
Clear? That's just one -we could try any number of parables.
Clear? Don't get me started on Deuteronomy.
Or even Genesis!
Revelation is a dream and what a dream! Clear? Like mud.

No one loves God more than me, no one I know is overwhelmed by
His love more than me - but the Bible? Clear?
I must disagree - but with respect, nothing personal - no malice what-so-ever.

[Fresco]

The Bible is only "very clear" to fundamental christians who think they understand it all

[Heimlich]

No, I do not believe in reincarnation at all. As a Christian, we believe in RESURRECTION, not reincarnation. Jesus Christ resurrected. He did not reincarnate and neither will we.

The following Scriptures speak to we having only One life, not life after life that would afford us a chance to come back time and time again and continue sinning, without repercussions, until we get it right. I firmly believe that is why we have and will have just one life and that is the one we have right now. That is why it is direly important to do good unto others now in our only life. There will be no more chances to return and 'try a little harder' to amend our bad ways. But with the hypothesis of reincarnation, the possibility would certainly exist for one to continue sinning (since no one is perfect) knowing that we can have more chances or "lives" to return and continue to try to get it right, therefore, what would be the incentive to bother trying to be good at present.

Please read these Scriptures that further illustrate the message and point I follow. If I did not present these Scriptures, there might be those who would say it was just my own subjective way of thinking which might not carry any weight. But to we Christians, these words are very meaningful and powerful and I, for one, believe in their eternal wisdom.

"And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation." -- HEBREWS 9:27-28 (KJV)

"Jesus said unto her, I Am The Resurrection, And The Life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." -- JOHN 11:25-26 (KJV)

"There is One body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope of your calling; One Lord, One faith, One baptism, One God and Father of All who is above all, and through all, and in you all." -- EPHESIANS 4:4-6 (KJV)

The key word here is "One". Therefore, we don't have and will not have 'multiple' bodies to return to Earth in the future or more than one spirit, nor 'continuing i.e., past lives', nor 'reincarnation.'

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

Easy to say when someone lives a full life but what about a 25 year old or even a 5 year old? Before you type something like – just have faith that is not an answer

[Heimlich]

The Bible is not so clear about reincarnation. In fact there appears to be hints but it can be interpreted either way…. I found this in my research that list common verses.
http://www.americanchristiansociety.com/beliefs/reincarnation

[AngelBreeze]

(We've never met - I love Jesus and I worship the Christ in him.)


Moving on, I'm glad someone thinks the Bible is "very clear".
Give me a minute - I may come up with a parable I'd like you to
explain - and I am not being sarcastic - lighthearted - only.

Gee, I could start with what's called the sermon on the mount...I'd like any pastor here to answer what is meant by - "Those that mourn shall be comforted..." Matt 5.
What is meant by that? And any pastor that has tried to comfort a mother or a wife that has mourned - tell me how any words in the Bible said by anyone ever comforted them

Comfort can be found only when you have a firm belief in Jesus Christ and have given your life to Him by becoming Born Again. Those who are still lost, most likely by their own choice, will never understand the true meaning of this Scripture and it would be an exercise in futility to make them understand. In your example, the mother or wife who is mourning will soon find comfort when her heart first accepts Jesus as her Lord and Savior and then realizes that whatever the source of her mourning, it will indeed subside and be comforted by knowing that she is not alone in her time of need and that God, through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ is with her at all times because of her Faith and Belief in Him.

Remember the Key: "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." -- PHILIPPIANS 4:12 (KJV)

If a person cannot behold this Scripture and take it to heart every moment of their life, after having given their life to Christ, they cannot therefore find strength in God's words to sustain them during their time of need.

----or you.
Clear? That's just one -we could try any number of parables.
Clear? Don't get me started on Deuteronomy.
Or even Genesis!
Revelation is a dream and what a dream! Clear? Like mud.

Mud is for lower life forms. Please do not place yourself in this category by seeing only mud when truth is revealed. Know that even the lotus flower grows in mud yet blossoms into a life form of sheer beauty. And so it is that those in a confused state with a muddy outlook can likewise reemerge with a beautiful understanding through personal effort. Again, to one who does not yet gravitate to the teachings of God in the Holy Bible, one who has not yet fully opened up their heart to understand what Scripture is saying and how it is personally speaking to you, will never understand the clarity of those wonderful and blessed words that have brought so much comfort and peace to those whose heart and mind are truly open and which therefore acts as a magnet for Truth as revealed in the Holy Bible.

Remember: "There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see." (Emphasis mine)

No one loves God more than me, no one I know is overwhelmed by
His love more than me - but the Bible? Clear?
I must disagree - but with respect, nothing personal - no malice what-so-ever.

None taken, dear one. You disagree because of your Free Will Choice. But with respect, if you keep an open mind and heart and reach out to God each and every day in prayer to try to understand the things you currently cannot understand, you will soon find that with the effort put forth, Jesus will take your hand and guide you along the way on your new spiritual growth. But it has to start with You. If you do not give 100% Plus of yourself in this, you cannot fully understand the beautiful meaning of the Bible and will perceive its message with the gossamer fog of misunderstanding. It is only when the Holy Spirit touches your heart and mind that you will fully understand its message in a way or manner that transcends current understanding and which will be lucidly clear forevermore.

Many blessings to you, my friend. You are Loved Very Much!

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Miss Hepburn]

None taken, dear one. You disagree because of your Free Will Choice. But with respect, if you keep an open mind and heart and reach out to God each and every day in prayer to try to understand the things you currently cannot understand, you will soon find that with the effort put forth, Jesus will take your hand and guide you along the way on your new spiritual growth. But it has to start with You. If you do not give 100% Plus of yourself in this, you cannot fully understand the beautiful meaning of the Bible and will perceive its message with the gossamer fog of misunderstanding. It is only when the Holy Spirit touches your heart and mind that you will fully understand its message in a way or manner that transcends current understanding and which will be lucidly clear forevermore.

Many blessings to you, my friend. You are Loved Very Much!


Your heart and good intentions are received and felt.
I do want to say you're "speaking to the choir". :hug3:
But, you don't know me yet...also, fyi - I have been healed, heal by His Grace,
am Baptised in the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues - and am made love to by God in my heart everyday all the time.
I am a student eternally (not of the Bible), but of my Father's, directly.
(Just as more of an introduction of myself to you.)

We will have differences concerning the Bible, but I doesn't bother me.
We both love our Father - the little details aren't a concern so much to Him. Ha!
He has a way of sifting little bothersome details out of the way
and straining it all down to the purity of our love for Him.
IMO.
Bless you,
:hug: Miss Hepburn

[AngelBreeze]

Your heart and good intentions are received and felt.
I do want to say you're "speaking to the choir". :hug3:
But, you don't know me yet...also, fyi - I have been healed, heal by His Grace,
am Baptised in the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues - and am made love to by God in my heart everyday all the time.
I am a student eternally (not of the Bible), but of my Father's, directly.
(Just as more of an introduction of myself to you.)

We will have differences concerning the Bible, but I doesn't bother me.
We both love our Father - the little details aren't a concern so much to Him. Ha!
He has a way of sifting little bothersome details out of the way
and straining it all down to the purity of our love for Him.
IMO.
Bless you,
:hug: Miss Hepburn

*** Warm greetings, Miss Hepburn!

I hope you could find my replies amongst yours in our previous conversation (while it would literally take reading between the lines.) As a "newbie" I am still not able to delineate between your posts and mine with a color or different size type, etc. therefore, until I am able to, I will use the following:

*** (to indicate My Reply) That way it should be less confusing to everyone I believe.

And I would like to say that although I do not know you personally, I know you in Spirit. That is how I am able to reply to your posts.

Thank you for your comments and God Bless You!

(Sending a hug also!) AngelBreeze

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Fresco]

by His Grace, am Baptised in the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues
I'd be careful with that, speaking in tongues. Some people believe that type of practice belongs to the "other one"

[Shabda]

I'd be careful with that, speaking in tongues. Some people believe that type of practice belongs to the "other one"
But Miss Hepburn doesnt belong to the "other side" though...

[Miss Hepburn]

I'd be careful with that, speaking in tongues. Some people believe that type of practice belongs to the "other one"
Hi Fresco,
Thank you, I love people that want to watch out for me. :hug2:

"be careful" does equal fear --- and that sure isn't a part of being born again or baptised in the Holy Spirit - wow, do you become
bold, powerful and fearless in the face of most anything. It's pretty wild.
People have really jumped all over me - even at weddings when they ask me how I am and I beam that I just got healed
of a severe hip problem! Yay!

Then they yell at me ---but, really they are taking all their "stuff" out about God.
Doesn't even phase me.
It's like winning the lottery and someone saying you're fat -"Yup, all the way around the world in my new yacht - who cares!!" Yippee!
It's like that.
:smile: Miss Hepburn


.

[michael55]

i do sometimes! :) lolol funny reality this is :D

[Miss Hepburn]

you might be on to something...check this out: btw I hope you really didn't leave this site...

Everything in the universe is a form of light (or waves of motion).
God creates using what he is, light.
...One everyday example is to take a hot cup of coffee and leave it sit. It cools down because it is finding balance with the room temperature.
This same balance law applies to everything including all of us with our relationships with others and with God. We should always be looking for balance with God.

For more information: whataretimewaves.com
HOW did I miss this post!!! :hug2: :hug3:


:notworthy:



.

Pg 8 post 77

[Fresco]

Hi Fresco,
Thank you, I love people that want to watch out for me. :hug2:

"be careful" does equal fear --- and that sure isn't a part of being born again or baptised in the Holy Spirit
That all depends on what type of fear.
Does your complete lack of fear stop you from looking both ways before crossing a busy street?? My guess it doesnt

wow, do you become
bold, powerful and fearless in the face of most anything. It's pretty wild.
People have really jumped all over me - even at weddings when they ask me how I am and I beam that I just got healed
of a severe hip problem! Yay!

Then they yell at me ---but, really they are taking all their "stuff" out about God.
Doesn't even phase me.
It's like winning the lottery and someone saying you're fat -"Yup, all the way around the world in my new yacht - who cares!!" Yippee!
It's like that.
:smile: Miss Hepburn
I'm glad you got healed.
Just curious, was it one of those faith healers that healed you?? Or was it through other means??

[AngelBreeze]

Greetings again, Miss Hepburn! How are you today? As I was talking about in my earlier post, I just wanted to bring clarity at this time to your posted reply as well as mine in posting #96 in this thread, and spoke about using the three asterisks (***) to indicate which portion of the conversation I am actually replying to. Sorry I could not get the posting in question to cooperate in its original format, with HTML, etc. but this is the conversation in question and therefore our readers can now know what it was *you* actually posted and what *my* reply was.

Otherwise, and I'm sure you'll agree, your posting appears to be saying some of the things that I was actually saying which were in my reply that I know would not be your intention to do. Thanks for your understanding!

If "newbies", at the very least, only had the privilege to post with a different color (to show the difference between one person's posting and another's reply), this could have been avoided entirely.

Alright, here we go:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
(Miss Hepburn) "(We've never met - I love Jesus and I worship the Christ in him.)"


(Miss Hepburn) "Moving on, I'm glad someone thinks the Bible is "very clear".
Give me a minute - I may come up with a parable I'd like you to
explain - and I am not being sarcastic - lighthearted - only."

(Miss Hepburn) "Gee, I could start with what's called the sermon on the mount...I'd like any pastor here to answer what is meant by - "Those that mourn shall be comforted..." Matt 5."
"What is meant by that? And any pastor that has tried to comfort a mother or a wife that has mourned - tell me how any words in the Bible said by anyone ever comforted them"

(AngelBreeze)*** "Comfort can be found only when you have a firm belief in Jesus Christ and have given your life to Him by becoming Born Again. Those who are still lost, most likely by their own choice, will never understand the true meaning of this Scripture and it would be an exercise in futility to make them understand. In your example, the mother or wife who is mourning will soon find comfort when her heart first accepts Jesus as her Lord and Savior and then realizes that whatever the source of her mourning, it will indeed subside and be comforted by knowing that she is not alone in her time of need and that God, through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ is with her at all times because of her Faith and Belief in Him."

(AngelBreeze)*** "Remember the Key: "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." -- PHILIPPIANS 4:12 (KJV)

(AngelBreeze)*** "If a person cannot behold this Scripture and take it to heart every moment of their life, after having given their life to Christ, they cannot therefore find strength in God's words to sustain them during their time of need."

(Miss Hepburn) "----or you.
Clear? That's just one -we could try any number of parables.
Clear? Don't get me started on Deuteronomy.
Or even Genesis!
Revelation is a dream and what a dream! Clear? Like mud."

(AngelBreeze)*** "Mud is for lower life forms. Please do not place yourself in this category by seeing only mud when truth is revealed. Know that even the lotus flower grows in mud yet blossoms into a life form of sheer beauty. And so it is that those in a confused state with a muddy outlook can likewise reemerge with a beautiful understanding through personal effort. Again, to one who does not yet gravitate to the teachings of God in the Holy Bible, one who has not yet fully opened up their heart to understand what Scripture is saying and how it is personally speaking to you, will never understand the clarity of those wonderful and blessed words that have brought so much comfort and peace to those whose heart and mind are truly open and which therefore acts as a magnet for Truth as revealed in the Holy Bible."

(AngelBreeze)*** "Remember: "There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see." (Emphasis mine)

(Miss Hepburn) "No one loves God more than me, no one I know is overwhelmed by
His love more than me - but the Bible? Clear?
I must disagree - but with respect, nothing personal - no malice what-so-ever."


(AngelBreeze)*** "None taken, dear one. You disagree because of your Free Will Choice. But with respect, if you keep an open mind and heart and reach out to God each and every day in prayer to try to understand the things you currently cannot understand, you will soon find that with the effort put forth, Jesus will take your hand and guide you along the way on your new spiritual growth. But it has to start with You. If you do not give 100% Plus of yourself in this, you cannot fully understand the beautiful meaning of the Bible and will perceive its message with the gossamer fog of misunderstanding. It is only when the Holy Spirit touches your heart and mind that you will fully understand its message in a way or manner that transcends current understanding and which will be lucidly clear forevermore."

(AngelBreeze)*** "Many blessings to you, my friend. You are Loved Very Much!"

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

(AngelBreeze)*** To the readers: I know this has taken more work to delineate between what was said by another and my replies. This is due to the fact that I am not yet able to use a different color, etc. at this time to show my replies. Neither can I use HTML since I am still "new" here and will not be able to until I have been here at least for two weeks. Therefore, this appears to be the way I will have to answer from now on when I reply right under a person's posting. Otherwise, as has happened, readers may become confused and surely think everything that was being said between the starting quoted part and the end part was coming from the person replying to my posts which would not be the case and the person replying to me may not appreciate it showing up that way, and for the sake of clarity (and we are speaking of clarity here aren't we ;) and consideration to them I'll need to do it this way.

(AngelBreeze)*** Thanks again, Miss Hepburn for your understanding and blessings to you!

AngelBreeze

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Heimlich]

HOW did I miss this post!!! :hug2: :hug3:


:notworthy:



.

Pg 8 post 77

Oh je – ich hoffe Sie mögen diese post!:smile:

It’s hard to image at first but it is very true. Everything in the universe is different frequencies of light. The mainstream science is only starting to think in this direction. It is also important to type nothing in the universe is wasted. Everything is broke down and reused – really cool stuff. This is at www.whataretimewaves.com

[Fresco]

^^^ That is correct. Those frequencies of light are also called "astral planes" or "dimensions"

[Miss Hepburn]

That all depends on what type of fear.
Does your complete lack of fear stop you from looking both ways before crossing a busy street?? My guess it doesnt.
It seems you may be confusing common sense and caution with actual fear?


I'm glad you got healed.
Just curious, was it one of those faith healers that healed you?? Or was it through other means??
Yes, I was literally dragged to a Bible Conference of Andrew Wommack's.
I had previously studied Healing - Why some, not others - why do some sustain their healing and others revert back in a day..things like that.

So I pretty much knew the process.
(Which is basically - know that you have already received that which you have asked for ---1 John 5:14-15...believe it has already been given, believe and receive, never have doubt that God wants you healed...and on and on..)
:smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

Thank you Angel Breeze - I'm no moderator - but after 48 posts you could try highlighting someone's words and maybe bolding them the' B' above or "I" fr italics - if that helps you at all. I did 4 things to those words!

"A", click the 'arrow', is for a different color.
Do you see them above the box when you reply?
Then for 15 minutes you can fix any mistakes by clicking "Edit".
Experiment with the "quote" button, bottom right, also ---there are so
many little tricks here. :)


Now, we will have to disagree on a some minor things.
Not worth belaboring.
You're doing just fine in your love of Jesus.
:smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

:smile:
It’s hard to image at first but it is very true. Everything in the universe is different frequencies of light.
I don't have to imagine it - I have experienced this many
many times - by His Grace!!!!!
Nice to know others "get it".
:smile:

[Heimlich]

I don't have to imagine it - I have experienced this many
many times - by His Grace!!!!!
Nice to know others "get it".
:smile:

TOTAL SPITZ (awesome)!!

God bless mein Freundin (my friend)!

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, spitz!
:wink:


I "get it" - to the point of hours of what others would diagnose as psychosis.
Many have said - "And you experienced this without LSD?"
Yup, by His Grace like all the mystics.
Divine Visitations, some have called them.
Doors of Perception thrown wide...
and changed me forever...
:notworthy:

[Fresco]

So I pretty much knew the process.

(Which is basically - know that you have already received that which you have asked for ---1 John 5:14-15...believe it has already been given, believe and receive, never have doubt that God wants you healed...and on and on..) Yes, that is spot on!
You're also supposed to pray incessantly and keep knocking on God's door. To the point where you feel you have to drive God "crazy" (so to speak) with prayers.

Trust me I have much experience in this :smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, that is spot on!
You're also supposed to pray incessantly and keep knocking on God's door. To the point where you feel you have to drive God "crazy" (so to speak) with prayers.

Trust me I have much experience in this :smile:
You want to tell me more about your history?

[AngelBreeze]

Thank you Angel Breeze - I'm no moderator - but after 48 posts you could try highlighting someone's words and maybe bolding them the' B' above or "I" fr italics - if that helps you at all. I did 4 things to those words!

"A", click the 'arrow', is for a different color.
Do you see them above the box when you reply?
Then for 15 minutes you can fix any mistakes by clicking "Edit".
Experiment with the "quote" button, bottom right, also ---there are so
many little tricks here. :)


Now, we will have to disagree on a some minor things.
Not worth belaboring.
You're doing just fine in your love of Jesus.
:smile:

Greetings Miss Hepburn!

Thank you for your response. Actually, I have tried what you suggested but found that the "A" and other items are currently *locked* and I cannot use any of them because I am still not a member out of the two week period that is required. If I click on any of those items you mentioned, they will not even work yet and so I will just have to wait a little while longer to be able to use them. But that's alright. Patience is a virtue! :)

See, the smiling icon will not even show as an animated smiley. That is why I had to devise the asterisks (***) for my reply in order to show the "she said - I said" part of it since I answered right under your paragraphs. No problem though just wanted to do this for the sake of clarity.

Thanks again and many blessings!
AngelBreeze

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Fresco]

You want to tell me more about your history?
Ive been working on a product since 1996 and it contains well over 100 ingredients.
So a lot of prayer is needed to complete this project, trust me on that.

But I do feel its slowly coming to a close now

[Shabda]

Not 'my' interpretation since the Bible is very clear in what it's saying and speaks well for itself. All one has to do is open their eyes to see what it is telling you and not be in denial about the Truth presented. However, if people would rather put their faith into something like reincarnation over Heavenly Salvation, they do so at their own risk with their free will. At any rate, there are consequences to one's actions be they concerning the right interpretation or a mis-interpretation.

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze
not at all true...there ae as many versions of the bible as there are differing interpretations of the words...you read it, you said it, you own that particular interpretation, and tho several may well agree with your interpretation, thousands wont at all by far...

[ArtisticAthlete]

I am a Christian and no, I do not believe in reincarnation. Not that I think that there is anything wrong with the idea...I just think every person/soul is originally created and there's no need to "come back" and manifest into someone else.

Just my $0.02...to each their own.

[AngelBreeze]

I am a Christian and no, I do not believe in reincarnation. Not that I think that there is anything wrong with the idea...I just think every person/soul is originally created and there's no need to "come back" and manifest into someone else.

Just my $0.02...to each their own.

Exactly my point, ArtisticAthlete! You hit the nail right on the head, my friend!

Indeed there is no need to return a second time or more to this dimension. Jesus did not reincarnate, He Resurrected! And as His children, we will resurrect in the Hereafter to live eternally in that realm and even higher ones as our soul progresses. And that is Great News! If a person does not get it right in this present life, they should get no other chances to come back as someone else as you say, to try to correct their past mistakes and/or to continue sinning. Corrections are to happen and will happen in the Afterlife according to many brilliant Afterlife researchers who have interviewed NDErs.

Thanks again for your comments! They are truly appreciated!

With a Light-filled heart always,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Fresco]

Corrections are to happen and will happen in the Afterlife according to many brilliant Afterlife researchers who have interviewed NDErs
And then there are just as many NDErs who claim reincarnation does happen:

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html

We dont have all the answers yet, so its best to keep an open mind to reincarnation

[AngelBreeze]

And then there are just as many NDErs who claim reincarnation does happen:

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html

We dont have all the answers yet, so its best to keep an open mind to reincarnation

Greetings to you,

While it is good to keep an open mind, the Holy Bible does not reflect or support the hypothesis of reincarnation. The vast majority of Christians, per se, do not believe in reincarnation. Those who claim to have had NDEs and return to say they feel there was reincarnation (which literally would be impossible to prove given the short amount of time they were out of their body and could not jump into another body in order to say that) are usually basing their experience upon preconceived ideas about the subject. When we pass-on or have a Near Death experience we fully retain our thought processes and memory, prejudices, what we wish to believe, etc. and what we have learned here on Earth. But when we have an authoritative book such as the Holy Bible that does not mention reincarnation, we Christians take that as the word of God on the subject. When Moses and Elijah appeared, they did not reincarnate, Jesus called them forth with His Divine Power and they came as the Same people they were, Moses and Elijah.

The Virgin Mary, Jesus' Mother, has been seen many times throughout the world since early times and she has not reincarnated into anyone else and neither will we. She has spoken mentally to her audience and identified herself as the Mother of Jesus. Bear in mind that this is after more than 2,000 years. Likewise, Jesus is still Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior and has not reincarnated into anyone else, thereby disproving the hypothesis of reincarnation to we Christians. If you wish I can point you to links to show the pictures taken of the Virgin Mary during her appearances.

Again, because of free will, people can believe as they wish but we believe what we have seen in The Virgin Mary and the fact that there is no mention of reincarnation in the Holy Bible. There are even some who erroneously would say that references to reincarnation existed in early times and mention the Council of Nicea, etc.and that those references were removed centuries ago, etc. yet no evidence has ever existed to support and sustain that theory.

With good tidings,

(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Fresco]

While it is good to keep an open mind, the Holy Bible does not reflect or support the hypothesis of reincarnation
I agree with you here

Those who claim to have had NDEs and return to say they feel there was reincarnation (which literally would be impossible to prove given the short amount of time they were out of their body and could not jump into another body in order to say that
I disagree with you here

You should look up 'astral projection', people that are into that can literally stay OBE for many hours, or in rare cases even days at a time.
And just because the Bible doesnt mention reincarnation doesnt mean it isnt fact. There are lots of secrets I believe God hasnt revealed about Himself yet.

Having said that I'm still on the fence about reincarnation, I simply keep an open mind

[Heimlich]

Greetings to you,

While it is good to keep an open mind, the Holy Bible does not reflect or support the hypothesis of reincarnation.

there are hints of it - this site lists a few:
http://www.americanchristiansociety.com/beliefs/reincarnation

[ArtisticAthlete]

Exactly my point, ArtisticAthlete! You hit the nail right on the head, my friend!

Indeed there is no need to return a second time or more to this dimension. Jesus did not reincarnate, He Resurrected! And as His children, we will resurrect in the Hereafter to live eternally in that realm and even higher ones as our soul progresses. And that is Great News! If a person does not get it right in this present life, they should get no other chances to come back as someone else as you say, to try to correct their past mistakes and/or to continue sinning. Corrections are to happen and will happen in the Afterlife according to many brilliant Afterlife researchers who have interviewed NDErs.

Thanks again for your comments! They are truly appreciated!

With a Light-filled heart always,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

You can say that again! Reincarnation reminds me of taking tests in school--You take a test, turn it in, your teacher corrects your test and you get a score. Um, since when do we get to say, "Thanks for the answers! Give me the same test; I'm ready to re-take it"? Um...that never happened at any of the schools I went to. Lol. And, I'm sure it is not going to happen in the School of Life soooo, people better study while you can b/c when it's time to submit your test, there's no turnin' back. :D :wink:

Also, if reincarnation was real, wouldn't everyone be enlightened and conscious? I doubt there'd be so much evil and chaos; we'd all be a product of someone who has passed over. Wouldn't we, essentially, know the "secret"? Wouldn't we already know what happens after death? Wouldn't we already know the mystery about G-o-d? Etc.

But, like I said...to each their own. :smile:

[Shabda]

You can say that again! Reincarnation reminds me of taking tests in school--You take a test, turn it in, your teacher corrects your test and you get a score. Um, since when do we get to say, "Thanks for the answers! Give me the same test; I'm ready to re-take it"? Um...that never happened at any of the schools I went to. Lol. And, I'm sure it is not going to happen in the School of Life soooo, people better study while you can b/c when it's time to submit your test, there's no turnin' back. :D :wink:

Also, if reincarnation was real, wouldn't everyone be enlightened and conscious? I doubt there'd be so much evil and chaos; we'd all be a product of someone who has passed over. Wouldn't we, essentially, know the "secret"? Wouldn't we already know what happens after death? Wouldn't we already know the mystery about G-o-d? Etc.

But, like I said...to each their own. :smile:
so you think you can become a saint (or a brain surgeon) with just one week in school?? interesting however unlikely...

[ArtisticAthlete]

so you think you can become a saint (or a brain surgeon) with just one week in school?? interesting however unlikely...

Well hello, Shabda!

Of course I do not think I can be a brain surgeon with one week of school. But...uuummm....would I have to REPEAT medical school? Absolutely not! :D

[Shabda]

Well hello, Shabda!

Of course I do not think I can be a brain surgeon with one week of school. But...uuummm....would I have to REPEAT medical school? Absolutely not! :D
you'd have to go for more than one year...personally i wouldnt trust what ANY book says on the matter, id ask myself...but thats just me...:D

[AngelBreeze]

Well hello, Shabda!

Of course I do not think I can be a brain surgeon with one week of school. But...uuummm....would I have to REPEAT medical school? Absolutely not! :D

You are so right again, ArtisticAthlete!

The Truth cannot be denied that there is only ONE God in the Holy Trinity, the God of ALL as Scripture reveals. He created and gave life to Famous Prophets, Kings, Queens, Buddhas, and everyone in between and whether their followers wish to believe it or not is immaterial because it's a fact that those people were not self-created. But people are free to believe as they wish due to their free will. However, I just have to wonder how many who have passed-on have found out that since they did not want to know the One God, their presence was not accepted in Heaven with Him at their appointed time. And to think that there are actually people who believe they are going to Heaven when they don't even believe in our One God, their Creator. That is simply amazing! Perhaps that is why they believe in reincarnation, so they can come back time and again if it takes them that long to learn how to find the One True God in the Holy Trinity.

My best in Light always,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

_____________________
When one lovingly shares with benevolent people of like mind, something great is bound to happen! -- AngelBreeze

[Shabda]

ive already found the One TRUE God actually...God isnt found in ANY book...

[Shabda]

also, i dont believe in reincarnation, i KNOW...quite a difference there between the two...but of course you CAN believe whatever you wish, i would never attempt to stop you from it...

[ArtisticAthlete]

you'd have to go for more than one year...personally i wouldnt trust what ANY book says on the matter, id ask myself...but thats just me...:D
The last time I checked, medical school was more than one year. Did I miss something? :-P

Anyway, what are you talking about? What's up w/ the one year chit chat? I never said anything about "one year" in any of my posts. Are you relating "one year" to one life? If so, as far as I know, I'm pushing 30yrs in this life of mine :D

Shabda, SORRY, but I would not let you be my brain surgeon if you tried to teach yourself. Really? You're that awesome!? You don't need books or medical school? "Pride cometh before a fall." Lol. Jk. But, really...teach yourself? Interesting.

Ok. Enough with the symbolism/ :)

[Shabda]

The last time I checked, medical school was more than one year. Did I miss something? :-P

Anyway, what are you talking about? What's up w/ the one year chit chat? I never said anything about "one year" in any of my posts. Are you relating "one year" to one life? If so, as far as I know, I'm pushing 30yrs in this life of mine :D

Shabda, SORRY, but I would not let you be my brain surgeon if you tried to teach yourself. Really? You're that awesome!? You don't need books or medical school? "Pride cometh before a fall." Lol. Jk. But, really...teach yourself? Interesting.

Ok. Enough with the symbolism/ :)
you got my point then? no one achieves heaven in just one life, and jesus has nothing to do with it either way...a book can do nothing more than inspire one to reach God, it, of itself, cant actually help in that...for myself, id rather learn directly from Spirit, than any book, but as i say, thats only me...one doesnt actually have to wait for death to explore and be taught...as St Paul said in the bible "I die daily" ...many different interpretations as to what he actually meant, but i know what he meant, as i use the same practice myself...and nothing to do with pride in my comments, i have never said i was better than anyone, or that anyone else couldnt do the same as i do, Jesus didnt say that either...

[ArtisticAthlete]

you got my point then? no one achieves heaven in just one life, and jesus has nothing to do with it either way...a book can do nothing more than inspire one to reach God, it, of itself, cant actually help in that...for myself, id rather learn directly from Spirit, than any book, but as i say, thats only me...one doesnt actually have to wait for death to explore and be taught...as St Paul said in the bible "I die daily" ...many different interpretations as to what he actually meant, but i know what he meant, as i use the same practice myself...and nothing to do with pride in my comments, i have never said i was better than anyone, or that anyone else couldnt do the same as i do, Jesus didnt say that either...
No, Shabda, I do not get your point. Not even a little bit. :tongue:
I never said one achieves heaven in one lifetime. Did I sleep[type] that? If so, I need to work on my sleep[typing]; it's getting out of control. Let me know... Lol. Anyway, I just don't think people reincarnate but it doesn't really matter b/c that's just my opinion.

I agree with you: God trumps books...always!

Fyi: I was kidding about the pride comment (Hence the "Jk")...

The end/Good night!

[DivineLove]

I have been on a deep spiritual excursion, the last 3 weeks or so.
There is a great deal of things, that have come to light, which before remained unclear.

In Mr. Padett's books, there was a Native American spirit, by the name of White Eagle. Who at that time, assumed the role as one of Mr. Padgett's Guides. To ensure that no one intruded, that was not, who they say they were. At that time, White Eagle, claimed that the spirit he was following, was in fact, Jesus, and that he was guiding many towards the Father's Love.

A few days ago, I found out, that White Eagle had gone on to publish many works through a medium named Grace Cook.
From this work, they had started something called a White Eagle Lodge. First one opened in the UK, and subsequent to this, many sprung open.
As White Eagle and Grace Cook, produced some incredible material.

The time line, is as follows. Mr.Padgett's books, were received in the 1920's.
Grace Cook's books, I believe came later, in the 1930's.

What I find extremely interesting, is that while Jesus, in these teachings, denies the existence of re-incarnation.
White Eagle, who was a follower of Jesus, and helped him, to complete this project through Mr. Padgett.
White Eagle, has an ENTIRE BOOK, on the subject of re-incarnation.

Is it possible, or probable, that White Eagle, who clearly loves Jesus, as he lent his services and guidance. And if you look at his teachings, they are filled with mention of Christ. So clearly, White Eagle, and Jesus, were well acquainted.

If White Eagle knows about re-incarnation. Jesus must know of this too.
White Eagle, is a wise spirit, and has communicated a great body of material. I just joined the White Eagle Forum yesterday, because I wanted to get some feedback from these people, who have read what White Eagle had to teach, on the subject of re-incarnation.

It is almost impossible, that White Eagle would understand the nature of re-incarnation, and that somehow, Jesus, who is in full possession of Christ, fully Divine. Would not.

More than likely, the reason that Jesus does not teach about re-incarnation, at least through Mr. Padett's books, or the contemporary messages, through Dr. Lampron, is likely due to Christians, perhaps as a majority, may lack the willingness to accept the truth of re-incarnation.

This is the only conclusion, that I can come to.
I do not mean, to upset anyone.
I know, that for me, the concept of re-incarnation, was better left as a
myth, than one which bears reality.
I found more comfort in simply dismissing such things.
But Truth, and Comfort, are not always willing companions.

In my search for Truth, I am very much open to parting with a degree of comfort, or security. Such is the nature of Truth.

We must seek that which is, over that which seems quaint and comfortable.


Here is the link, to the White Eagle Lodge.

http://www.whiteagle.org/the_teaching.htm

Here is the link, to all the published material, that has come through Grace Cook, via White Eagle.

http://www.whiteaglepublishing.org/_books/default.htm


God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Shabda]

interesting~!

[Perry J]

I have been on a deep spiritual excursion, the last 3 weeks or so.
There is a great deal of things, that have come to light, which before remained unclear.

In Mr. Padett's books, there was a Native American spirit, by the name of White Eagle. Who at that time, assumed the role as one of Mr. Padgett's Guides. To ensure that no one intruded, that was not, who they say they were. At that time, White Eagle, claimed that the spirit he was following, was in fact, Jesus, and that he was guiding many towards the Father's Love.

A few days ago, I found out, that White Eagle had gone on to publish many works through a medium named Grace Cook.
From this work, they had started something called a White Eagle Lodge. First one opened in the UK, and subsequent to this, many sprung open.
As White Eagle and Grace Cook, produced some incredible material.

The time line, is as follows. Mr.Padgett's books, were received in the 1920's.
Grace Cook's books, I believe came later, in the 1930's.

What I find extremely interesting, is that while Jesus, in these teachings, denies the existence of re-incarnation.
White Eagle, who was a follower of Jesus, and helped him, to complete this project through Mr. Padgett.
White Eagle, has an ENTIRE BOOK, on the subject of re-incarnation.

Is it possible, or probable, that White Eagle, who clearly loves Jesus, as he lent his services and guidance. And if you look at his teachings, they are filled with mention of Christ. So clearly, White Eagle, and Jesus, were well acquainted.

If White Eagle knows about re-incarnation. Jesus must know of this too.
White Eagle, is a wise spirit, and has communicated a great body of material. I just joined the White Eagle Forum yesterday, because I wanted to get some feedback from these people, who have read what White Eagle had to teach, on the subject of re-incarnation.

It is almost impossible, that White Eagle would understand the nature of re-incarnation, and that somehow, Jesus, who is in full possession of Christ, fully Divine. Would not.

More than likely, the reason that Jesus does not teach about re-incarnation, at least through Mr. Padett's books, or the contemporary messages, through Dr. Lampron, is likely due to Christians, perhaps as a majority, may lack the willingness to accept the truth of re-incarnation.

This is the only conclusion, that I can come to.
I do not mean, to upset anyone.
I know, that for me, the concept of re-incarnation, was better left as a
myth, than one which bears reality.
I found more comfort in simply dismissing such things.
But Truth, and Comfort, are not always willing companions.

In my search for Truth, I am very much open to parting with a degree of comfort, or security. Such is the nature of Truth.

We must seek that which is, over that which seems quaint and comfortable.


Here is the link, to the White Eagle Lodge.

http://www.whiteagle.org/the_teaching.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .whiteagle.org%252Fthe_teaching.htm)

Here is the link, to all the published material, that has come through Grace Cook, via White Eagle.

http://www.whiteaglepublishing.org/_books/default.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .whiteaglepublishing.org%252F_books%252Fdefault.ht m)


God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

Since I know myself that I have lived before, and had a friend who remembered a past life so vividly that he went to France and found his own gravestone, I believe more in this:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealjesus/jesusanswers/byjesus/Teachreincarn.html

If you decide to go within and look, stop listening to what others say, you will find out what's the truth.

[ArtisticAthlete]

BUMP

What's the purpose in discovering your past life? I'm not saying I believe in reincarnation or not b/c I've never researched it; in the past, it's never been an interest of mine. But since signing up for SF a couple of months ago, I've seen numerous posts talking about past lives. Now-a-days, I tend to only do things if there's a specific, beneficial purpose. How would discovering my past life benefit me in 2011? Let's say I discover that I was ___ in 1712. Ok...now what?

I'm kind of interested in reincarnation because yesterday, our school was giving standardized/state tests to all of our students. I like working with Special Education students so I was helping our SpEd Coordinator. I ended up having to work with two 5th graders and one little boy seemed as if he was a 30yr old man trapped inside the body of an 11yr old. He was definitely wise beyond his years (and I kept wondering why he was in SpEd? :confused: As far as I can see, there was nothing wrong with him; perhaps people just didn't get him? On Monday, I'm going to make my way into the SpEd files and figure out why someone tested him and put him in SpEd. Weird. Anyway...) and I found myself holding normal conversations with him. And then I'd think, uh...wait...he's only 11yrs old. Lol!

Anyway, when I got home, I started wondering if maybe, in his past life, he was a High IQ adult who has reincarnated and is now a child? Then, I started wondering if gifted children were High IQ adults in their past lives? Just a thought...

Back to the point of this post--What's the point in discovering your past life and how can that discovery benefit your current life? And, say if I didn't believe in reincarnation and I never discovered my past life, how would that hinder my current life? From what I can see, people who believe in reincarnation/have discovered their past life still have to deal with the same things, in life, that people who do not believe in reincarnation have to deal with. So, what's the purpose?

Thanks! :D

[Miss Hepburn]

Why?


To rid one's self of phobias or illnesses would be one reason to access a past life - if only for one hypnosis session - phobias pretty much vanish once the origin is simply woken up for a second.
Another-for me - is when I saw how even in a past life - I was being taught, solemnly, a powerful moral lesson (about gossip) that I see I have yet to learn - and each time I falter I see that scene again - in my mind.
So - I'm shown how dumb I am.
That's another reason! Humility, LOL.
I don't know if that helps with another perspective or not.
:D

[ArtisticAthlete]

Why?


To rid one's self of phobias or illnesses would be one reason to access a past life - if only for one hypnosis session - phobias pretty much vanish once the origin is simply woken up for a second.
Another-for me - is when I saw how even in a past life - I was being taught, solemnly, a powerful moral lesson (about gossip) that I see I have yet to learn - and each time I falter I see that scene again - in my mind.
So - I'm shown how dumb I am.
That's another reason! Humility, LOL.
I don't know if that helps with another perspective or not.
:D

Hello, Miss H! :wink:

Yes, that helps. I always enjoy conversations with those of a different perspective; that's the only way to grow, learn, evolve, etc. :D

Anyway, you say you saw yourself being taught a lesson about gossiping. Say if you never saw that lesson, were you not already aware you struggled with gossiping? For example: I'm aware of a couple of things I need to work on. Do I always do what I'm supposed to do? No. But, who does? No one is perfect. With that said, I feel like I'm aware...for the most part (I guess? :tongue: )
Before your regression, could you have listed "gossiping" on your list of faults? Or, did you only realize you struggled with gossiping after your past life vision?

[Shabda]

BUMP

What's the purpose in discovering your past life? I'm not saying I believe in reincarnation or not b/c I've never researched it; in the past, it's never been an interest of mine. But since signing up for SF a couple of months ago, I've seen numerous posts talking about past lives. Now-a-days, I tend to only do things if there's a specific, beneficial purpose. How would discovering my past life benefit me in 2011? Let's say I discover that I was ___ in 1712. Ok...now what?

I'm kind of interested in reincarnation because yesterday, our school was giving standardized/state tests to all of our students. I like working with Special Education students so I was helping our SpEd Coordinator. I ended up having to work with two 5th graders and one little boy seemed as if he was a 30yr old man trapped inside the body of an 11yr old. He was definitely wise beyond his years (and I kept wondering why he was in SpEd? :confused: As far as I can see, there was nothing wrong with him; perhaps people just didn't get him? On Monday, I'm going to make my way into the SpEd files and figure out why someone tested him and put him in SpEd. Weird. Anyway...) and I found myself holding normal conversations with him. And then I'd think, uh...wait...he's only 11yrs old. Lol!

Anyway, when I got home, I started wondering if maybe, in his past life, he was a High IQ adult who has reincarnated and is now a child? Then, I started wondering if gifted children were High IQ adults in their past lives? Just a thought...

Back to the point of this post--What's the point in discovering your past life and how can that discovery benefit your current life? And, say if I didn't believe in reincarnation and I never discovered my past life, how would that hinder my current life? From what I can see, people who believe in reincarnation/have discovered their past life still have to deal with the same things, in life, that people who do not believe in reincarnation have to deal with. So, what's the purpose?

Thanks! :D
its always about karmic lessons,actions, thoughts or words from a past life can cause karma, karma that isnt necessarily burned off yet, and so is still being dealt with (one's self being taught by) and many times an individual is obviously not aware of these past life causes, until they actually see them and become aware of their reasons for existing, and as Miss H said, often this is the exact moment when they disappear, because the lesson has been learned....some folks have certain fears or dreads that they cant explain due to any event in their current life, and upon discovering their actions in a past life that was the cause of this, they are freed from it as it is no longer needed, has no further purpose to serve...an individual can look at the things they like or dislike, and eras of history they have an affinity for, or a dread of, all for no particular reason due to any circumstances in this life, as clues to past lives, even though this alone usually doesnt allow one to become conscious of the actual event...one can use past life regression to become aware, or simply contemplate upon it...i was able to view my entire history without any regression, so it is possible, but of course depends on the individual's determination to find out...

[ArtisticAthlete]

its always about karmic lessons,actions, thoughts or words from a past life can cause karma, karma that isnt necessarily burned off yet, and so is still being dealt with (one's self being taught by) and many times an individual is obviously not aware of these past life causes, until they actually see them and become aware of their reasons for existing, and as Miss H said, often this is the exact moment when they disappear, because the lesson has been learned....some folks have certain fears or dreads that they cant explain due to any event in their current life, and upon discovering their actions in a past life that was the cause of this, they are freed from it as it is no longer needed, has no further purpose to serve...an individual can look at the things they like or dislike, and eras of history they have an affinity for, or a dread of, all for no particular reason due to any circumstances in this life, as clues to past lives, even though this alone usually doesnt allow one to become conscious of the actual event...one can use past life regression to become aware, or simply contemplate upon it...i was able to view my entire history without any regression, so it is possible, but of course depends on the individual's determination to find out...

Oh, ok. So, if I wanted to try it I would just do something like this: http://www.wikihow.com/Remember-Your-Past-Lives (<--I just googled "How to discover your past life")

Concerning #5 and #6, how do you know you're not just making something up? For example: I love soccer. Why does soccer have to be related to a past life? Why can't it just be a current interest of mine?

Do you think all current interests are related to a past life?

I find this interesting. I guess I'll be getting my google on ...

Thanks for the info!

[Shabda]

Oh, ok. So, if I wanted to try it I would just do something like this: http://www.wikihow.com/Remember-Your-Past-Lives (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikihow.com%2FReme mber-Your-Past-Lives) (<--I just googled "How to discover your past life")

Concerning #5 and #6, how do you know you're not just making something up? For example: I love soccer. Why does soccer have to be related to a past life? Why can't it just be a current interest of mine?

Do you think all current interests are related to a past life?

I find this interesting. I guess I'll be getting my google on ...

Thanks for the info!
why cant your love of soccer be BOTH? lol...i dont think that all interests are necessarily from past lives (we do evolve to some extent dont we? that would, i assume, include gaining new interests) but i was speaking more of the type that one cant attribute to any particular event in their current life...ive met a great many people that have found they have these, and also found them to be completely inexplicable,and yet after discovering some degree of knowledge about their past lives, find the "missing links" as to where their interests or fears came from, and in many cases found a cure for those fears....but the interests dont get cured, they simply expand with a greater understanding....i have 2 myself, one is music, which came from a past life, and another is art, which to my knowledge, came from/during this one, and i developed both to quite a good degree, but at this point i favor playing music to drawing or painting (which i did start literally as soon as i could hold a crayon)...the drawing and painting i had to learn a bit about doing, but i had a natural "feeling" for it...as for music, i was struck by a sudden urge to learn it, and as i taught myself, i found it to be more like remembering than learning, and this was before i became aware of the past life in which i was a musician, playing the same type of music then, as i find to be my most favorite now...nothing earth shattering, but definitely interesting to me...

[Perry J]

BUMP

I'm not saying I believe in reincarnation or not b/c I've never researched it; in the past, it's never been an interest of mine. But since signing up for SF a couple of months ago, I've seen numerous posts talking about past lives. Now-a-days, I tend to only do things if there's a specific, beneficial purpose. How would discovering my past life benefit me in 2011? Let's say I discover that I was ___ in 1712. Ok...now what?

I'm kind of interested in reincarnation because yesterday, our school was giving standardized/state tests to all of our students. I like working with Special Education students so I was helping our SpEd Coordinator. I ended up having to work with two 5th graders and one little boy seemed as if he was a 30yr old man trapped inside the body of an 11yr old. He was definitely wise beyond his years (and I kept wondering why he was in SpEd? :confused: As far as I can see, there was nothing wrong with him; perhaps people just didn't get him? On Monday, I'm going to make my way into the SpEd files and figure out why someone tested him and put him in SpEd. Weird. Anyway...) and I found myself holding normal conversations with him. And then I'd think, uh...wait...he's only 11yrs old. Lol!

Anyway, when I got home, I started wondering if maybe, in his past life, he was a High IQ adult who has reincarnated and is now a child? Then, I started wondering if gifted children were High IQ adults in their past lives? Just a thought...

Back to the point of this post--What's the point in discovering your past life and how can that discovery benefit your current life? And, say if I didn't believe in reincarnation and I never discovered my past life, how would that hinder my current life? From what I can see, people who believe in reincarnation/have discovered their past life still have to deal with the same things, in life, that people who do not believe in reincarnation have to deal with. So, what's the purpose?

Thanks! :D

What's the purpose in discovering your past life?

You have already been given some valuable purposes. I have just another perspective.

Please sit down, take a deep breath and think:
When you ask that question you take for granted that we always have the freedom to look into ourselves and find ealier lifetimes, and choose to ignore it or to use it to enhance our lives.

You do not take into account the strong centralizing forces working in the fields of science, religion and politics, who want to prove that we are just our bodies and our brains, hence completely in the hands of either materialistic science or some religous elite, where nothing you can experience counts as a "proof", since you can never demonstrate it in the objective reality, or it doesn't agree with some dogma.

These forces want to close down this channel, leading to some "inner" truth about ourselves and who we really are.
All this is a threat to these forces.

In China, this is already at work. Peaceful Falun Gong meditators are persecuted and killed, and their organs are sold at the more and more lucrative organ markets.
And we all feel the increasing Chinese influence everywhere.

But it's not about China, it's about centralizing powers overall.
And of course these markets I mention are also boosted by the collective mindset that death is absolute - that we have only one life!

This is the same reasoning the Catholic Church have used over the ages, to make people believe that they are completely in the hands of the religious elite, which was the only instance on Earth that could grant them eternal life. That's why they invented the dogmatic religion, that built on outer rituals and rules of conduct, while for the inner sake it was implanted - forcefully - that we are born in sin and not "worthy".

These were also centralizing powers, of course. And the Catholic Church is still working towards the goal of global control, with the pope as the world leader.
If we choose to ignore the knowledge of past lives and reincarnation, we give them free way. They can do nothing against an increased collective consciousness.

[ArtisticAthlete]

why cant your love of soccer be BOTH? lol...i dont think that all interests are necessarily from past lives (we do evolve to some extent dont we? that would, i assume, include gaining new interests) but i was speaking more of the type that one cant attribute to any particular event in their current life...ive met a great many people that have found they have these, and also found them to be completely inexplicable,and yet after discovering some degree of knowledge about their past lives, find the "missing links" as to where their interests or fears came from, and in many cases found a cure for those fears....but the interests dont get cured, they simply expand with a greater understanding....i have 2 myself, one is music, which came from a past life, and another is art, which to my knowledge, came from/during this one, and i developed both to quite a good degree, but at this point i favor playing music to drawing or painting (which i did start literally as soon as i could hold a crayon)...the drawing and painting i had to learn a bit about doing, but i had a natural "feeling" for it...as for music, i was struck by a sudden urge to learn it, and as i taught myself, i found it to be more like remembering than learning, and this was before i became aware of the past life in which i was a musician, playing the same type of music then, as i find to be my most favorite now...nothing earth shattering, but definitely interesting to me...

Lol. I guess you're right--It could be both. :wink: Concerning "missing links", I guess that could make sense. I've always wondered why I've felt so strongly on certain issues; even at a young age... Eh, you never know.

What's the purpose in discovering your past life?

You have already been given some valuable purposes. I have just another perspective.

Please sit down, take a deep breath and think:
When you ask that question you take for granted that we always have the freedom to look into ourselves and find ealier lifetimes, and choose to ignore it or to use it to enhance our lives.

You do not take into account the strong centralizing forces working in the fields of science, religion and politics, who want to prove that we are just our bodies and our brains, hence completely in the hands of either materialistic science or some religous elite, where nothing you can experience counts as a "proof", since you can never demonstrate it in the objective reality, or it doesn't agree with some dogma....

Maybe I'm not understanding your response (as in it's so called over my head b/c I had to read it twice. Lol.) but that was the point of my question: I was trying to figure out how past life regression can enhance our lives. But, with the responses, I'm starting to see how it can enhance my life...

I agree with what you're saying about church/religion...

[Royalite]

See, I don't believe in reincarnation because I have no desire to come back. :D I find peace in accepting that this one life is IT and then I can go back to my maker when it's all done.

OOPS! I thought I should put something more contributing here too...

If indeed reincarnation does happen and is real then like many have said the aim is to deal with karmic cycles and release karmic burdens. I have met individuals who have struck me with instant recognition and I knew there was much between us. Many of these individuals have now left my path as I have learned what was needed to learn and expressed what needed to be expressed. One is then free to move on in peace and love knowing that they did their part to contribute to all that is good and positive in this God given world. One is also stronger, more aware, and knowledgeable, able to recall on the tools that one is now aware that they possess because of the experience.

[BlueOrchid]

I am Christian and also believe in reincarnation plus many other things too. Being a Christian means you are a follower of Christ which is what I am, it doesn't mean you have to be so indoctrinated by the Church you shouldn't have other ideas/thoughts about life in general.

[Shim]

I found that some do - apparently
americanchristiansociety.com/beliefs/reincarnation

The irony in the article came about when it being asked, "Wouldn’t Gods Mercy be extremely limited if we only had one life with one chance?" I would think that God's Grace and Forgiveness undercut karma.

[Miss Hepburn]

Hello, Miss H! :wink:

Yes, that helps. I always enjoy conversations with those of a different perspective; that's the only way to grow, learn, evolve, etc. :D

Anyway, you say you saw yourself being taught a lesson about gossiping. Say if you never saw that lesson, were you not already aware you struggled with gossiping? For example: I'm aware of a couple of things I need to work on. Do I always do what I'm supposed to do? No. But, who does? No one is perfect. With that said, I feel like I'm aware...for the most part (I guess? :tongue: )
Before your regression, could you have listed "gossiping" on your list of faults? Or, did you only realize you struggled with gossiping after your past life vision?
Gee, sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
I don't know what the ans is to your question - really, I just deal with what is now
- and 'now' I did see myself making a mistake of gossip, really putting someone down for something, and I still do it...occasionally.
I guess, I see it as more serious maybe than I would have.
Sure, I'm not murdering someone - but spiritually it is an immature, ego-based judgment - lacking forgiveness and love.

:) Miss Hepburn

[Baldr44]

I am Christian and also believe in reincarnation plus many other things too. Being a Christian means you are a follower of Christ which is what I am, it doesn't mean you have to be so indoctrinated by the Church you shouldn't have other ideas/thoughts about life in general.
Good for you. The church wants you to believe in just one physical existence. In what other way would they keep you tied to the pews? If enough people understood reincarnation, not many would be there for sunday or wednesday services. I understand that the idea is to keep you in a state of fear. The church is a fear based organization. You only have three choices. hell, heaven or purgatory. There are actually more choices.

[Baldr44]

Oh, ok. So, if I wanted to try it I would just do something like this: http://www.wikihow.com/Remember-Your-Past-Lives (<--I just googled "How to discover your past life")

Concerning #5 and #6, how do you know you're not just making something up? For example: I love soccer. Why does soccer have to be related to a past life? Why can't it just be a current interest of mine?

Do you think all current interests are related to a past life?

I find this interesting. I guess I'll be getting my google on ...

Thanks for the info!
Many of the things that you have experienced in previous life experiences stay in your subconscious mind. These follow you throughout all of your subsequent life experiences. Certainly not all past interests are related to your current experience. It really depends on how much thought you give to them. I was a teacher in my last incarnation, I have been a teacher in this experience, I plan on using those skills in my next incarnation as well.

[BlueOrchid]

Good for you. The church wants you to believe in just one physical existence. In what other way would they keep you tied to the pews? If enough people understood reincarnation, not many would be there for sunday or wednesday services. I understand that the idea is to keep you in a state of fear. The church is a fear based organization. You only have three choices. hell, heaven or purgatory. There are actually more choices.

Thank you for your kind message Baldr44, my PP would probably lynch me if he knew half of what I believed in lol. I agree to some extent about the Church being a fear based organization but I'm not easily scared, nor will I be told what to believe in. Although I do believe in Christ 100% being RC, I believe in the paranormal side of things as well, and actually I can't quite see why the Church is against this considering the number of visions etc, stigmata, demons, exorcisms and such forth. But maybe this is for another topic somewhere?

[Baldr44]

Thank you for your kind message Baldr44, my PP would probably lynch me if he knew half of what I believed in lol. I agree to some extent about the Church being a fear based organization but I'm not easily scared, nor will I be told what to believe in. Although I do believe in Christ 100% being RC, I believe in the paranormal side of things as well, and actually I can't quite see why the Church is against this considering the number of visions etc, stigmata, demons, exorcisms and such forth. But maybe this is for another topic somewhere?

You're welcome, the major issue as I see it is that there is sufficient reason to believe that the Church, and by that I mean the vast majority of them, have refused to believe in reincarnation simply because it is not in their best interest to do so. If we are to pay for the consequences of our sins (Karma) ourselves in future lives and attain salvation through our own efforts, the sacrifice of Christ would become meaningless.

It is my belief that Jesus was a great prophet and metaphysician. I also believe that he did not die on the cross. It doesn't fit the character of Jesus to become a martyr. While I understand that christians must accept that in order to be saved, my question has been saved from what? Since there is really nothing to be saved from. There is no hell, regardless of the scare tactics invoked by the church. The only hell is that brought upon yourself by deceptive perceptions.

[Amilius777]

Of course many CHristians believe in reincarnation.

I know it as a fact. It goes beyond beliefs. I don't recall precise previous life times but is it any amazement that a Seer once told me I died very young in previous life and I would have dreams of receiving a certain cancer at a young age? Without the Seer knowing my dreams?

Jesus had his previous lives. All must go through the states of existence to reclaim their heritage as a son of God.

Because we separate ourselves from our beloved Source we must undergo incarnations to learn, experience, grow, and earn Christhood.

Elijah and his pupil Elisha became John the Baptist and Jesus the Christ. These are the two souls who guided Judaism and became the founders of Christianity. Master and Apprentice. But Elisha succeeded Elijah when Elijah ascended to the astral level waiting to reincarnate as John the Baptist. While Elisha reunited fully with God the Father beyond all manifestation. And returned as Jesus, the Christ to fulfill the Scriptures.

Spiritual Evolution is 25 percent self-effort, 25 percent apprenticeship, and 50 percent the grace of God.

Paramhansa Yogananda is probably the last fully developed prophet of the past 100 years.

St. Francis, Anthony, Peter, Paul, and many others all had previous lifetimes with Christ even before his life as Jesus.

[BlueOrchid]

You're welcome, the major issue as I see it is that there is sufficient reason to believe that the Church, and by that I mean the vast majority of them, have refused to believe in reincarnation simply because it is not in their best interest to do so. If we are to pay for the consequences of our sins (Karma) ourselves in future lives and attain salvation through our own efforts, the sacrifice of Christ would become meaningless.

It is my belief that Jesus was a great prophet and metaphysician. I also believe that he did not die on the cross. It doesn't fit the character of Jesus to become a martyr. While I understand that christians must accept that in order to be saved, my question has been saved from what? Since there is really nothing to be saved from. There is no hell, regardless of the scare tactics invoked by the church. The only hell is that brought upon yourself by deceptive perceptions.

Interesting thoughts and ideas there. Obviously not qualified enough to say whether or not Jesus did or didn't die on the cross I don't think any of us will really understand unless we were there at the time lol, but having said that he was certainly raised to the living again even if only for a short while, but the interesting thing is that the disciples didn't recognise him for awhile, whether or not he came back as a different person ie reincarnation is something else. I have often wondered why the disciples didn't recognize him for and this could be the answer.

I also agree with you that Jesus did indeed create many miracles that no ordinary person could do including curing the sake and raising people from the dead.

[Baldr44]

From my reading of the Seth material, specifically "Seth Speaks" Session591 August 11, 1971 he has cleared up the business of Jesus and the cross thing. Now I understand that this was channeled from Seth through Jane Roberts and there are many skeptics about. However Seth has stated that there was a conspiracy with Judas playing a role, an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ. However Jesus had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixation was a necessity. Jesus did not take part in it. The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross. He was told that he was the Christ, he believed that he was (as we see also in modern times) he was one of those deluded, he believed that he was the one to fulfill the prophecies. The tomb was empty as the same group carried the body away. When Peter denied the Christ in the garden, it was due to the fact that Peter did not recognize the stand in. The stand in Christ asked "Why hast thou forsaken me" Peter being aware of the conspiracy was in fear that the real Christ would be captured. Consequently he handed the stand in over to the authorities a man known to be a self-styled messiah-to save, not destroy, the life of the historical Christ.

From that point it was easy for Jesus to appear as the risen Christ. He ate food and appeared to be in the flesh, because he was. After the appointed time he departed the area as it would have been an embarrassment to be around.

[BlueOrchid]

Hi Baldr44, that is really interesting, never really thought about it like that. Food for thought to say the least. Can I ask a silly question though, who is Seth? Sorry to appear a bit dumb on this. With best wishes.

[Baldr44]

Hi Baldr44, that is really interesting, never really thought about it like that. Food for thought to say the least. Can I ask a silly question though, who is Seth? Sorry to appear a bit dumb on this. With best wishes.

Good Morning, Well, Seth is as he states is an "Energy personality essence" a channeled consciousness entity from the nonphysical realms. He began his work with Jane Roberts in 1963. He came through Jane (who he called Ruburt, her name from the nonphysical realms) in an unexpected flury of written work. It was a short time later that Seth came through her by channeling. Seth's goal is to make people aware of the actual experiences of both life here and in the nonphysical. He points out the knowledge and the power that we have in our consciousness.

In order that his words and thoughts were not in any way mistranslated, he put Jane into a trance while dictating his books. Some of his book titles are; Seth Speaks, the Eternal Validity of the Soul; The Nature of Personal Reality; The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events; The Nature of the Psyche; The "Unkown Reality" Vol's 1 and 2; Dreams, "Evolution" and Value Fulfillment vol's 1 and 2 and the book that started the whole thing was "The Seth Material".

Seth has had more than 48 life experiences (as he stated, give or take) and
wants to share his endless understanding of how things really work in our infinite consciousness. "Seth Speaks" is the book that relates the conspiracy of the crucifixion. This from an entity who lived during those times and has an infinite amount of knowledge.

I might add that my wife has channeled Seth as well as many others. Her spirit guide is also very old in our time/space linear reference. As there is no time in universal matters. He is one of the few great masters, along with Hermes and the great prophets.

Any other questions which may be of a personal nature, please feel free to send me a private message.

In Love an Light
Jake

[BlueOrchid]

Hi Jake,

Thank you so much for the explanation, sorry didn't realize who asking Seth was was personal I was just curious to find out a bit more, it was just that you were talking about him and I hadn't a clue, so do appologise for that. But in future will send a PM, with my pleasure. I am finding this all interesting. I have watched people go under trance on many occasions and it has been known that people have gone back to Biblical times but that the information has been a little hazy which is only to be expected really. I wonder if people have been taken back further then Biblical times. With best wishes and thanks again Jake in Love and Light too.

[Miss Hepburn]

Well, I'm glad someone knows who Christ was - bec I sure don't.
I couldn't make it all the way through the Seth Books - but they are
truly amazing!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Baldr44]

Hi Jake,

Thank you so much for the explanation, sorry didn't realize who asking Seth was was personal I was just curious to find out a bit more, it was just that you were talking about him and I hadn't a clue, so do appologise for that. But in future will send a PM, with my pleasure. I am finding this all interesting. I have watched people go under trance on many occasions and it has been known that people have gone back to Biblical times but that the information has been a little hazy which is only to be expected really. I wonder if people have been taken back further then Biblical times. With best wishes and thanks again Jake in Love and Light too.

I didn't mean to imply that anything was personal. Just ment that if you felt like a question might make you feel out of the ordaniry, you might want it to be in a private msg.

There have been many who have remembered and gone back to primative times before the bible era. Many have found Seth's work to be less than acceptable. Having been in the presence of Seth makes me understand why his books are so important.

[tragblack]

Why would Jesus have allowed a drugged and stumbling, insane man die for him on the cross?

[Perry J]

Well, I'm glad someone knows who Christ was - bec I sure don't.
I couldn't make it all the way through the Seth Books - but they are
truly amazing!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

YOU are the Christ within! Just BE IT.
(Gangaji says so...)

[Baldr44]

Well, I'm glad someone knows who Christ was - bec I sure don't.
I couldn't make it all the way through the Seth Books - but they are
truly amazing!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

I've made it through many of them but haven't finished them all. The real treat is to channel him directly, which anyone could do but most of us have lost the ability. He is a hoot to talk with and very funny. I believe he comes by to check up on me. His first visit was to question me about a couple of bad habits I had. He always says "How's my ol' buddy Jake doing?" He is a very powerful entity.

It's my wife who channels him and she usually ends up with a headache and dehydrated after his visit.

[Miss Hepburn]

From 'Man's Eternal Quest' - Paramahansa Yogananda

REINCARNATION: THE SOUL'S JOURNEY TO PERFECTION p. 227
can instantly recognize people you knew before. Suppose you see a six-month-old baby, and then do not see it again until many years have gone by and the baby has become a man. You probably do not recognize that baby in the man. Yet certain features are the same, you would discover, if you had known that baby long enough to fix those features firmly in your mind. So, certain features of our past life remain with us. The eyes especially will be like they were before. Eyes hardly change because they are the windows of the soul. Those whose eyes reflect anger or fear or wickedness should try to change, to remove unlovely qualities that hide and hinder the expression of the beauty of the soul. Owing to the change of environment and company, your mind and body change somewhat. But the eyes change little. You are reborn with the same expression in them.
You can also tell by your inclinations if you were a man or a woman in your past existence. Many women are mannish, and many men want to be like women.
Both man and woman are equal in importance. Reason and feeling are present in both men and women. But in man reason predominates, and in woman feeling predominates. It is easier to influence a man by appealing to his reason than to his feeling; a woman responds more readily to an appeal to her emotions.
By God-communion you bring about the harmony or bal&shy;ance of these two qualities within yourself. I never acknowl&shy;edge myself to be either man or woman. I feel for others with the love of a mother, but no one can dissuade me by an appeal to my emotions if my reason, or fatherly nature, does not con&shy;cur. To achieve a divine balance of reason and feeling should be the purpose of both man and woman. Man usually has to cultivate more feeling, and woman has to cultivate more logic.
We Must Perfect Love in at Least One Relationship
There is a deep reason why God does not usually allow us to recall our previous lives. It is because we would be very clannish with those we knew before, instead of expanding our love to encompass others. God wants us to give friendship and love to all, but we must perfect it in at least one relationship.


228 MAN'S ETERNAL QUEST
When you meet old friends again, you can perfect your love in relationships with them. A disciple means one in whom the guru perfects the state of divine friendship. Those who follow the guru's wishes are his disciples. The wishes of a true guru are guided by divine wisdom, and if you tune in with his wishes you will become free, as he himself is free.*
Above all, you should learn the most you can from this life, and strive to pass to the highest grade of spiritual de&shy;velopment in the school of life. Commune with God. When you can do that, the deficiencies of all lesser grades of living are forgiven. To free yourself from karma that binds you to the lesser duties of life, develop wisdom and God-consciousness.
* "If ye continue in my words, then are ye my disciples indeed, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32). "Men, devotion-filled, who ceaselessly practice My precepts, without faultfinding, become free from (all) karma" (Bhagavad Gita 111:31).

:smile:

[Gauss]

About reincarnation the Christian clergy started deceiving people after AD 325 or so when they removed all passages about reincarnation in the bible. The Gnostics cultivated almost like Buddhists with meditation and asceticism and believed several lifetimes were needed to consummate oneself.

However, there are a few tracks of reincarnation left in the bible:

Matthew:

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus in the bible:

"Truly, truly I say to you: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

"Born again" means reincarnation and that one needs several lifetimes to achieve consummation and get out of the reincarnation loop, it is simply that the modern clergy twists people´s minds so they can understand nothing. Buddhism teaches the same concept.

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

[Baldr44]

About reincarnation the Christian clergy started deceiving people after AD 325 or so when they removed all passages about reincarnation in the bible. The Gnostics cultivated almost like Buddhists with meditation and asceticism and believed several lifetimes were needed to consummate oneself.

However, there are a few tracks of reincarnation left in the bible:

Matthew:

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus in the bible:

"Truly, truly I say to you: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

"Born again" means reincarnation and that one needs several lifetimes to achieve consummation and get out of the reincarnation loop, it is simply that the modern clergy twists people´s minds so they can understand nothing. Buddhism teaches the same concept.

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.
My two cents to, you'll not get the majority of christians to accept any of that scripture as they will tell you that doesn't mean anything. The dogma of the church rules. Common sense will direct us but not so in the majority of churchs. If they accept reincarnation, then that would mean that Christ died for nothing. We can fix everything by having multiple life experiences. In order to keep everything in the church perspective, no one can get another chance. This is it, only one chance for you guys if you don't behave, you'll go to hell. Sorry guys but you'll have to pay the price for sinning.

[Chrysaetos]

15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus in the bible:
"Truly, truly I say to you: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
"Born again" means reincarnation and that one needs several lifetimes to achieve consummation and get out of the reincarnation loop, it is simply that the modern clergy twists people´s minds so they can understand nothing. Buddhism teaches the same concept.
Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.No offence but that's your cultural interpretation of scripture, Gauss.
Who's saying that dogma is not a way to twist people's minds in thinking that one religion or culture has all the answers? In order to keep everything in the church perspective, no one can get another chance. This is it, only one chance for you guys if you don't behave, you'll go to hell. Sorry guys but you'll have to pay the price for sinning.One lifetime, or a million lifetimes.. what's the difference when it comes to ''sins'' and ''karma''? You have the same belief, the difference is quantitative.

[Baldr44]

No offence but that's your cultural interpretation of scripture, Gauss.
Who's saying that dogma is not a way to twist people's minds in thinking that one religion or culture has all the answers? One lifetime, or a million lifetimes.. what's the difference when it comes to ''sins'' and ''karma''? You have the same belief, the difference is quantitative.

No one goes to hell for bad karma. Only an opportunity to fix the negative in a positive manner. I would say that it's more quality than quanity.

[Bluegreen]

Edgar Cayce who has always been described as a very devout Christian believed in reincarnation.

[ivy71983]

I am christian and i believe in reincarnation. I find myself to be more spiritual than geared towards a specific religion. I was raised christian and believe some of it just i believe in different parts of other religions. If you really look they all basically have the same message but everyone likes to apply their own meaning to it which i think takes away from its true meaning.


There's my two cents. Remember its just my opinion :D

[Bluegreen]

This may be of interest:

In December, 1945, early Christian writings containing many secrets of the early Christian religion were found in upper Egypt, a location where many Christians fled during the Roman invasion of Jerusalem. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these manuscripts of Christian mysticism rank in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

These writings affirmed the existence of the doctrine of reincarnation being taught among the early Jews and Christians. These Christian mystics, referred to as Christian Gnostics, were ultimately destroyed by the orthodox Church for being heretics. Their sacred writings were destroyed and hidden with the belief that they would be revealed at an appropriate time in the future. The discovery in 1945 yielded writings that included some long lost gospels, some of which were written earlier than the known gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.


http://www.cinemind.com/a****er/news/news/NDEnews.php?id=7285736694527389583

[lovint7]

I am a chrisitan and I dont believe in reincarnation but I dont understand everything about the spirit world so I try not to judge what is right and wrong

[Zenith]

Hi Sira,

You have The Book of Enoch:
http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

There are many more. The Gospel of Thomas for example...

The Book of Enoch and the Gospel of Thomas don't mention reincarnation.

[Zenith]

Also, reincarnation was one of the tenets of the early Catholic Chruch, until it became politically unpopular as a teaching and was dropped.

Do you have a source for this?

[Fresco]

Interesting theory I heard the other day regarding reincarnation and child abuse. Most people find sexually abusing a child reprehensible (and rightly so), but almost always that child who's being sexually abused was a child abuser him or herself in their previous lifetime.

They have to reincarnate as the victim so they can experience firsthand what its like to be abused. This is part of the personal karma they have to work out.

I dont know if this is true, but it sure sounds interesting. And if it's true you shouldnt feel sorry for them, because its something they have brought on themselves

[Shining Star]

Before the Council of Nicaea in AD 325, reincarnation was part of Christianity :hug3:

[theophilus]

Interesting theory I heard the other day regarding reincarnation and child abuse. Most people find sexually abusing a child reprehensible (and rightly so), but almost always that child who's being sexually abused was a child abuser him or herself in their previous lifetime.

They have to reincarnate as the victim so they can experience firsthand what its like to be abused. This is part of the personal karma they have to work out.

I dont know if this is true, but it sure sounds interesting. And if it's true you shouldnt feel sorry for them, because its something they have brought on themselvesIf this is true then there can never be an end to child abuse. If the abuser must suffer in a future life then someone he knows in that life must abuse him and then be destined to suffer the same thing in his future. The Bible says that in the last days many will depart from the faith and follow the teachings of demons and any teaching that the victim of child abuse deserves what is happening to him is clearly demonic in its origin.

[Fresco]

If this is true then there can never be an end to child abuse. If the abuser must suffer in a future life then someone he knows in that life must abuse him and then be destined to suffer the same thing in his future But thats kinda whats happening right now in the world, actually. The cycle of sin is never-ending.
It will only end until JC makes his return and puts a stop to all this nonsense

The Bible says that in the last days many will depart from the faith and follow the teachings of demons and any teaching that the victim of child abuse deserves what is happening to him is clearly demonic in its origin
I havent departed from anything, and I certainly dont need a seal of approval from you

[MissieM]

I have been conflicted about the idea of reincarnation but this is the general idea of the theory that keeps coming to me...I believe God is a loving a compassionate God, and that he isn't merciless and doesn't send people to hell who have made bad decisions. I think that God put us on this earth to fufill a purpose, and that everything happens for a reason. That when we die, if we still haven't fufilled our purpose or learned the lessons that we need to learn we reincarnate into whatever form will best help us to achieve our purpose and learn whatever lessons we need to learn. Once we have and our souls are wise and kind enough we then are able to leave our bodies behind and go on to heaven. I suppose that would be where the idea of karma would tie in. Anyways, just thought I'd add my two cents sorry for rambling. Just some ideas that have been knocking around in my head.

Peace and love,

Missie

[FindingMyself]

I'm generally agnostic on my view of the afterlife. Personally, though, reincarnation makes more sense to me than Hellfire and brimstone. And for the record, I go to a Christian church ( a very liberal one), and have met several others within my congregation who believe in reincarnation, and indeed have had conversations about things such as past-life regressions.

[Fresco]

Meet Nick Cage's doppelganger. I have to say the resemblance is uncanny :D

http://thedaleygator.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/is-nicolas-cage-immortal-actors-amazing-civil-war-doppelganger-posted-on-ebay/


http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/319261_126019207499920_100002755257866_103463_1756 562205_n.jpg

[Colbster425]

As a Christian-Buddhist I am very open to any views on the afterlife. I think reincarnation is entirely possible, but at the same time I am perplexed as to how exactly it would work.

[theophilus]

I have been conflicted about the idea of reincarnation but this is the general idea of the theory that keeps coming to me...I believe God is a loving a compassionate God, and that he isn't merciless and doesn't send people to hell who have made bad decisions. I think that God put us on this earth to fufill a purpose, and that everything happens for a reason. That when we die, if we still haven't fufilled our purpose or learned the lessons that we need to learn we reincarnate into whatever form will best help us to achieve our purpose and learn whatever lessons we need to learn. Once we have and our souls are wise and kind enough we then are able to leave our bodies behind and go on to heaven. I suppose that would be where the idea of karma would tie in. Anyways, just thought I'd add my two cents sorry for rambling. Just some ideas that have been knocking around in my head.

Peace and love,

MissieYour ideas are interesting but what is the source of your beliefs? Do you have any evidence that they are correct?

[TeeHee]

The idea of being trapped within a vicious circle of life and death separated throughout eternity is reminiscent of hell.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Thankfully, those who consciously choose Jesus as their Lord will experience a brief time before the resurrection. That time in death will pass in the blink of an eye.

[MissieM]

Your ideas are interesting but what is the source of your beliefs? Do you have any evidence that they are correct?

Oh like I said just some ideas that have been kicking around in my head, didn't mean to indicate that they were fact just my opinion, I thought I'd throw my two cents in. Just a theory that won't leave me alone for some reason and feels quite right to me. Does that happen to anyone else lol? My apologies if that wasn't clear :redface:

Peace and love :hug2:

Missie

[theophilus]

Oh like I said just some ideas that have been kicking around in my head, didn't mean to indicate that they were fact just my opinion, I thought I'd throw my two cents in. Just a theory that won't leave me alone for some reason and feels quite right to me. Does that happen to anyone else lol? My apologies if that wasn't clear :redface:

Peace and love :hug2:

MissieI often experience ideas like this. Most of them have turned out to be merely the product of my imagination and have no basis in fact.

[Fresco]

Now they've found a previous lifetime pic of John Travolta from 1860. Assuming its not photoshopped, it does look a lot like him:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043257/Nicolas-Cage-John-Travoltas-1860-doppelganger-photo-eBay.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/29/article-0-005CDE2D00000258-78_306x423.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/29/article-0-0E24B6C400000578-326_306x423.jpg

[Bluegreen]

You must forgive me for not reading all the posts in this thread.

What happens when we die? Do we change and become perfect souls worthy of being near God to worship Him?
We are not able to achieve that degree of perfection in one life.

Neither does it seem logical to me because if that is what happens, we might as well question why we were not created perfect souls in the first place. Instead we experience pain, emotional hurt, poverty, and all the sad things that happen on this earth.

If when we die we do not become perfect souls then Heaven would become a second earth.

Do we have to undergo all the pain, emotional as well as physical, in order to earn a place near God after we die?
If so, it is a cruel condition demanded by an all powerful God.

Reincarnation, which is the evolution of the soul in my view, offers all Life the opportunity to grow towards God, to perfect the soul.

I am sure that most of the people here know that all life is vibration in differing degrees. God is vibration. We are vibration. But our vibration must be raised lest we burn in the presence of God. The more perfect we become, the higher our vibration.
We cannot achieve it in one lifetime.

[theophilus]

What happens when we die? Do we change and become perfect souls worthy of being near God to worship Him?

We are not able to achieve that degree of perfection in one life.We can never achieve that degree of perfection by out own efforts no matter how many lives we live. We are born into this life with a nature that can never achieve perfection. That is why Jesus said we must be born again if we hope to enter the kingdom of heaven.The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:9-13 ESV)

When someone repents of his sins and puts his faith in Christ for salvation God gives him a new nature which is capable of serving and worshipping God. He still has the old sinful nature so as long as he is in this life he is still capable of sinning. When his body dies the old nature is removed and he can is no longer capable of sin.

[Bluegreen]

As you must have expected, Theophilus, I disagree.

I admit that what I have said cannot be proved but neither can what you have said be proved. Proof on matters of this kind must always be personal and can never be found in books, no matter whether they're sacred or not.

You say that God gives man a new nature. If God is able to do so--I am not saying that he is not--why not create man with such a nature from the beginning? It would be a compassionate thing to do, don't you think?

You have come up with the argument that all the Christians I have met come up with: God gives man a new nature, a perfect soul etc.
It is not logical. It is cruel and since I do not believe in a cruel God, I reject the explanation.

[theophilus]

You say that God gives man a new nature. If God is able to do so--I am not saying that he is not--why not create man with such a nature from the beginning? It would be a compassionate thing to do, don't you think?He did create man with a perfect nature. The problem is that the first man sinned and as result his nature ceased to be perfect and he passed this imperfection down to all of his descendants. You can read all about it in the third chapter of Genesis.

[Bluegreen]

He did create man with a perfect nature. The problem is that the first man sinned and as result his nature ceased to be perfect and he passed this imperfection down to all of his descendants. You can read all about it in the third chapter of Genesis.

Theophilus, don't you see the contradiction in what you wrote? A man with a perfect nature would not sin in the first place or his nature would not be perfect.

When he dies and God (again) gives him a perfect nature as you said in an earlier post, and if what you say is true, history could repeat itself, don't you think?

[TeeHee]

I think Paul said it best,

Romans 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

But I'm certain that some of you will find things to disagree with. Tee hee

[Amilius777]

I believe in reincarnation because I find the Elijah-John the Baptist comment to be literal!

John did not claim to be Elijah (well duh. He could only baptize with water. He didn't have the level of spirituality that Jesus has).

Jesus claims that John is the Elijah to come.

John was beheaded and right after that Elijah appeared at the Transfiguration in his "glorified form as Elijah". He paid his debt and began the ministry with his beheading and resumed his state of Elijah, the greatest prophet born of woman as Jesus said.

[Bluegreen]

Here is another one Amilius777:

When the disciples asked if the man was born blind because of his sins or his parents', Jesus did not rebuke them for believing that a person can be born blind because of having sinned before he was born.

[theophilus]

Theophilus, don't you see the contradiction in what you wrote? A man with a perfect nature would not sin in the first place or his nature would not be perfect.

When he dies and God (again) gives him a perfect nature as you said in an earlier post, and if what you say is true, history could repeat itself, don't you think?How do you know a perfect nature is incapable of sinning? If we want to understand God we must come to him with our minds open to the truth and be prepared to give up our preconceived ideas if they contradict what God has revealed. God made Adam and Eve perfect but he also gave them free wills so they could choose whether or not they would obey him and retain their state of perfection.

When a person repents of his sins and puts his faith in Christ he is given a divine nature which is incapable of sinning. Those who believe in Christ aren't simply restored to the position Adam forfeited but attain a different kind of perfection.

When the disciples asked if the man was born blind because of his sins or his parents', Jesus did not rebuke them for believing that a person can be born blind because of having sinned before he was born.He didn't rebuke them but he did tell them that they were wrong.

[theophilus]

I believe in reincarnation because I find the Elijah-John the Baptist comment to be literal!

John did not claim to be Elijah (well duh. He could only baptize with water. He didn't have the level of spirituality that Jesus has). John the Baptist couldn't have been the reincarnation of Elijah because Elijah never died.

http://www.esvbible.org/search/2+kings+2%3A1-14/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .esvbible.org%252Fsearch%252F2%252Bkings%252B2%252 53A1-14%252F)



Jesus claims that John is the Elijah to come.Jesus was referring to this prophecy.“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.”
(Malachi 4:5-6 ESV)


Here is what Gabriel said when he foretold the birth of John.He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.
(Luke 1:17 ESV)


John fulfilled Malachi's prophecy because he was empowered the same way Elijah was. He clearly said that he wasn't Elijah.

[Bluegreen]

How do you know a perfect nature is incapable of sinning? Then why call it perfect? Is your definition of perfect different from mine? (Perfect, according to Webster: being entirely without fault or defect) You have not convinced me Theophilus. If we want to understand God we must come to him with our minds open to the truth and be prepared to give up our preconceived ideas if they contradict what God has revealed. God made Adam and Eve perfect but he also gave them free wills so they could choose whether or not they would obey him and retain their state of perfection.

When a person repents of his sins and puts his faith in Christ he is given a divine nature which is incapable of sinning. Those who believe in Christ aren't simply restored to the position Adam forfeited but attain a different kind of perfection.

He didn't rebuke them but he did tell them that they were wrong. “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.
Jesus only pointed out that it was for a different reason.
...........

[Fresco]

John the Baptist couldn't have been the reincarnation of Elijah because Elijah never died.

http://www.esvbible.org/search/2+kings+2%3A1-14/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.esvbible.org%252 52Fsearch%25252F2%25252Bkings%25252B2%2525253A1-14%25252F)

And how do you know Elijah didnt choose to reincarnate after he had gone to heaven?

Have you been to heaven yourself, Theo?? Do you know everything that goes on there?? I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you probably dont. So how can you lay down the law and claim to know everything, like you continously appear to do on this forum??

[theophilus]

And how do you know Elijah didnt choose to reincarnate after he had gone to heaven?

Have you been to heaven yourself, Theo?? Do you know everything that goes on there?? I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you probably dont. So how can you lay down the law and claim to know everything, like you continously appear to do on this forum??I don't claim to know everything but I have studied the Bible and have learned what God has revealed to us there. If Elijah wanted to reincarnate after he entered heaven his old body would have to die and the Bible teaches that there is no death in heaven.

This brings up another problem with reincarnation. The Bible clearly teaches that our bodies will be resurrected. If reincarnation is true then each of us will have several bodies at the resurrection. We can't inhabit more than one of them, so what will happen to the extras?

[Amilius777]

That is because you don't understand the "Science" of spirituality. The Bible talks about three heavens. Not one. In Hinduism there are three heavens- the etheric, the astral, and the spiritual. The ether surrounds the Earth where ghosts and spirits who are not damned but must wait surround this sphere. The astral is the heaven most good or great souls go to. It has seven levels and souls resonate with it's levels depending on their spiritual consciousness. And the spiritual heaven is of God Himself where according to the Apostles no one entered until Jesus ascended there.

Elijah went to the highest astral heaven. When it was time for him to die, his body and soul was assumed there. Meaning he did not experience death. When we die there is a period of darkness and reawakening in another realm. Elijah dissolved his body into pure spiritual energy and assumed into the heavens beyond space and time.

So yes, he could reincarnate. But he would have to reincarnate as a lower person with a lower mantle. If he came back as Elijah he would have come back as a spiritual being like a god or an angel to the Hebrews. But God wished to send Elijah born of woman like his Son to become the Baptist. He says it in Malachi that he would send Elijah.

Why would God lie?

[Fresco]

I don't claim to know everything but I have studied the Bible and have learned what God has revealed to us there. If Elijah wanted to reincarnate after he entered heaven his old body would have to die and the Bible teaches that there is no death in heaven.

This brings up another problem with reincarnation. The Bible clearly teaches that our bodies will be resurrected. If reincarnation is true then each of us will have several bodies at the resurrection. We can't inhabit more than one of them, so what will happen to the extras?
I think you probably mean well, but you have been indoctrinated by the evangelical church and have become close-minded and dogmatic in the process. You think almost everything outside the Bible is demonic, and any new idea is right away met with fierce hostility.

If you want to expand your spirituality and grow in God, try something called Astral Projection (basically a deep form of meditation). This will hopefully draw you out of that "church shell" you're in and perhaps make you realize you were wrong on a lot of previously held doctrine.

I believe the modern evangelical church to be the same as the Pharisees and Saduccees of the OT. I really dont see much difference

[Fresco]

He says it in Malachi that he would send Elijah.

Why would God lie?
Excellent point. God said Elijah would reappear at end of times.

There's only one way he could reappear IMO, and thats through reincarnation

[Miss Hepburn]

I think you probably mean well, but you have been indoctrinated by the evangelical church and have become close-minded and dogmatic in the process. You think almost everything outside the Bible is demonic, and any new idea is right away met with fierce hostility.

If you want to expand your spirituality and grow in God, try something called Astral Projection (basically a deep form of meditation). This will hopefully draw you out of that "church shell" you're in and perhaps make you realize you were wrong on a lot of previously held doctrine.

I believe the modern evangelical church to be the same as the Pharisees and Saduccees of the OT. I really dont see much difference

I think you should get more to the point
and say what you really mean! :icon_lol:

[Lightspirit]

lol theres no way I coming back here. One lot of school and working for a living is enough for me.

I am taking that one way ticket to the pearly gates.

[RabbiO]

I believe the modern evangelical church to be the same as the Pharisees and Saduccees of the OT. I really dont see much difference

There are neither Pharisees or Sadducees in Jewish scripture - what you refer to as the Old Testament. Perhaps you were thinking of how they are characterized in Christian scripture. Be that as it may, I suspect that you really have no clue really regarding the Sadducees and the Pharisees, especially the Pharisees.

B'shalom,

Peter

[Fresco]

My mistake, I meant New Testament not OT

[theophilus]

The Bible talks about three heavens.But have you ever studied the Bible to see what these three heavens are? The Bible uses the word in places where we would use the word "sky".




The first reference to a heaven is found in Genesis 1:6-8:And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.This refers to what we could call the atmosphere.



The second heaven is mentioned in verses 14,15:And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

This is obviously a reference to outer space, where the stars and planets are.


The third heaven is mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:3,4:

And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.


This is what Christians are referring to when we speak of Heaven.

[TeeHee]

There are neither Pharisees or Sadducees in Jewish scripture - what you refer to as the Old Testament. Perhaps you were thinking of how they are characterized in Christian scripture. Be that as it may, I suspect that you really have no clue really regarding the Sadducees and the Pharisees, especially the Pharisees.

B'shalom,

Peter
Well now, we can't have that can we? ;) Let's open the doors to the NT gallery and take a peek inside at this treasured masterpiece.
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” The moral of the story is that we should go with the collector of this fine rendition as an appreciation of the ongoing interest of the artist.

I think that the art of Jesus in portraying the Pharisee(s) were of those that held rigorously to ceremonies and traditions of the law, putting on a public show seen by other men for their religiosity. Jesus brushes aside the person who is self-justifying. Perhaps stating that God doesn't hear his prayer. He does not confess in his prayer nor does he ask for forgiveness. There's no praise of thanksgiving to God from his heart nor does any flow from his lips in this stroke of genius. His prayer is all about him, even unto the thanks which is offered, he exalts himself and places himself above others within the framework of society.


Question: "Who were the Sadducees and the Pharisees?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/Sadducees-Pharisees.html

Edited by SF Staff

[Amilius777]

You just answered my question.

Do you honestly think Moses wrote the first books strictly literal of the physical world? When do Christians know when to take something literal, spiritual, historical, or metaphysical?

What is its all true? Perhaps the second heaven Moses speaks of is of the stars and planets. But what of it's spiritual significance. Moses was of the Oriental system. He wasn't western. What makes Christianity think that Moses didn't have a more Eastern background? It was common knowledge to mystics and saints of all regions that a heaven existed called "astral" or Latin- "astrum" which meant the Metaphysical Star Realm.

If this second heaven is both the physical star/planet outer space and the metaphysical star/planet- "astral plane" then Elijah went there just like I said. And if you believe Elijah got caught up into a literal star or planet then he was abducted by aliens and your entire Orthodox belief system is folly.

[Bluegreen]

"If this is true then there can never be an end to child abuse. If the abuser must suffer in a future life then someone he knows in that life must abuse him and then be destined to suffer the same thing in his future. The Bible says that in the last days many will depart from the faith and follow the teachings of demons and any teaching that the victim of child abuse deserves what is happening to him is clearly demonic in its origin."

I understand that that is not how the law of cause and effect works. We see only the outward signs of what other people do. We do not see why people do what they do. We do not know what they felt before they acted. It is not only the deed itself that is important but what made people do what they did is as important if not more important.

Gina Cerminara made a study of the karmic causes in the readings of Edgar Cayce. She found the following types of karma:
physical karma; karma of mockery, karma in suspension, karma and problems of health; retributive psychological karma; past-life origins of mental abnormalities; the lonely ones, karmic family entanglements etc.

Let's take, for example, the case where mockery set in motion the law of cause and effect. If we use your example, Theophilus, the one who mocked in a past life would be the victim of mockery in this one. However, this is what happened in the Cayce reading:

Of a woman stricken with infantile paralysis: "She had been among the royalty of the time and was closely associated with Nero in his persecution of the Christians. "And the entity laughed at those who were crippled in the arena--"says the reading--"and lo! that self-same thing returns to you.!"

Of a girl lamed by tuberculosis of the hip joint:
"The karmic cause, however, arose in the second life back, in Rome. Here the entity had been one of the aristocrats in Nero's court and had found it amusing to watch the persecution of Christians in the arena. She had laughed in particular at the girl whose side was ripped open by the claws of a lion."

I believe that the "I hit you, you hit me in the next life ad infinitum" will stop when one of the parties finds it in him/herself to forgive. I may be wrong though.

[Bluegreen]

This is a nice webpage that traces the disappearance of reincarnation from the Bible. Perhaps Miss Hepburn added the link already. I forgot to check. Sorry.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen08.html

[Vaughn]

You can't control what people do, feel or think...many have tried and died in attempting to do so.

Whether Christian, Jew, Hindu, Agnostic or Atheist each will find the path, the formula, the mix that resonates, that works best for them. If that be reincarnation, with a mix of this, that and the other...so be it. We certainly like our labels don't we? Unfortunately they can become chains around us limiting our capacity for true understanding and atonement.

[Fresco]

You can't control what people do, feel or think...many have tried and died in attempting to do so.

Whether Christian, Jew, Hindu, Agnostic or Atheist each will find the path, the formula, the mix that resonates, that works best for them. If that be reincarnation, with a mix of this, that and the other...so be it. We certainly like our labels don't we? Unfortunately they can become chains around us limiting our capacity for true understanding and atonement Very, very well said!

All we can do is state our opinion(s) and hope that some of the good knowledge resonates. Other then that, its pretty much in one ear, out the other.

I believe this is what the Bible meant by: "Dont throw pearl before swine, if you do they will trample on it and attack you".

IMO it means if you try to even bother converting an atheist, they will first trample on whatever you told them, and then they will (verbally) attack you and tell you where to go.

Not all atheists will, but plenty

[Elena]

Even when I was part of catholic church I believed in the reincarnation and rebirth of the soul.

[Miss Hepburn]

This is a nice webpage that traces the disappearance of reincarnation from the Bible. Perhaps Miss Hepburn added the link already. I forgot to check. Sorry.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen08.html
I think this thread is getting very informative , great posts- post this link 10 times if that's what it takes to get looked at. :smile:

I just basically wanted to bring this thread back up.