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iorek65
15-12-2015, 08:51 PM
There seems to be a tendency to want to become an "ascended being" that "transcends all this" among many who get into spirituality. I know I've felt and dealt with those feelings before.

I just wanted to share a perspective on it.

Natural human nature is to want to avoid pain and not deal with it (for many) rather than confronting it and accepting it. Pain becomes an excuse for many things and patterns that manifest -- hatred, indifference, etc.

But it can also become a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all. So a path of "higher ascension" where one becomes above all the people around them and is "on the way out" becomes a trick of the ego/self to avoid dealing with existence here on earth.

I think the real "ascension" is the rise to understanding of the importance of accepting our presence here--and accepting that no matter how wise we may perceive ourselves to be, we have tons to learn and may be here quite a while longer. The more deeply we can uncover the pockets of our tendencies to try to escape, resist, or run from the depth of being human, and instead forge toward deep acceptance and love of it/aim to become the best we can be, the more "ascended" we become.

The suffering encourages us to burn out the impurities in our character and love more purely.

Just some thoughts.

TheGlow
15-12-2015, 08:58 PM
There seems to be a tendency to want to become an "ascended being" that "transcends all this" among many who get into spirituality. I know I've felt and dealt with those feelings before.

I just wanted to share a perspective on it.

Natural human nature is to want to avoid pain and not deal with it (for many) rather than confronting it and accepting it. Pain becomes an excuse for many things and patterns that manifest -- hatred, indifference, etc.

But it can also become a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all. So a path of "higher ascension" where one becomes above all the people around them and is "on the way out" becomes a trick of the ego/self to avoid dealing with existence here on earth.

I think the real "ascension" is the rise to understanding of the importance of accepting our presence here--and accepting that no matter how wise we may perceive ourselves to be, we have tons to learn and may be here quite a while longer. The more deeply we can uncover the pockets of our tendencies to try to escape, resist, or run from the depth of being human, and instead forge toward deep acceptance and love of it/aim to become the best we can be, the more "ascended" we become.

The suffering encourages us to burn out the impurities in our character and love more purely.

Just some thoughts.
Agreed, besides if you escape you've left everyone behind to suffer. If you can use the pain to transform and become more loving and compassionate you can actually ease the suffering of others.
Which of the two option is actually more evolved?

Rokon
15-12-2015, 09:25 PM
There seems to be a tendency to want to become an "ascended being" that "transcends all this" among many who get into spirituality. I know I've felt and dealt with those feelings before.

I just wanted to share a perspective on it.

Natural human nature is to want to avoid pain and not deal with it (for many) rather than confronting it and accepting it. Pain becomes an excuse for many things and patterns that manifest -- hatred, indifference, etc.

But it can also become a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all. So a path of "higher ascension" where one becomes above all the people around them and is "on the way out" becomes a trick of the ego/self to avoid dealing with existence here on earth.

I think the real "ascension" is the rise to understanding of the importance of accepting our presence here--and accepting that no matter how wise we may perceive ourselves to be, we have tons to learn and may be here quite a while longer. The more deeply we can uncover the pockets of our tendencies to try to escape, resist, or run from the depth of being human, and instead forge toward deep acceptance and love of it/aim to become the best we can be, the more "ascended" we become.

The suffering encourages us to burn out the impurities in our character and love more purely.


There's two sides to this. Yea there are many who choose to deny reality and that is as much a "soul choice" as it is a human choice. But I personally would not propose that everyone go homeless, suffer deep depression, experience cancer or physical ailments or get murdered so they can ascend.

TheGlow
15-12-2015, 09:38 PM
There's two sides to this. Yea there are many who choose to deny reality and that is as much a "soul choice" as it is a human choice. But I personally would not propose that everyone go homeless, suffer deep depression, experience cancer or physical ailments or get murdered so they can ascend.
That's not why I got from the original post. They didn't mean to choose suffering but some choose through meditation to disassociate so much from the 3d experience that they are no longer effected by anything.

Op if I missunderstood you please let me know. :)

Rah nam
15-12-2015, 09:49 PM
The "Ascension" is simply the brake through from one density to the next or you might even jump one density. This is possible as well.
Everything else is simply a working toward this transition.

Rokon
15-12-2015, 09:57 PM
That's not why I got from the original post. They didn't mean to choose suffering but some choose through meditation to disassociate so much from the 3d experience that they are no longer effected by anything.

Op if I missunderstood you please let me know. :)
You're right, Glow. I was just adding my own perspective to it. :wink:

CrystalSong
15-12-2015, 10:31 PM
Ascending is to me simply evolving my consciousness...
Wherever we go there we are - so if we haven't come into alignment with ourselves that's our dominant reality wherever we are.

It's highly likely we went through a lot of effort to get to be here in a body and experience this level of density with the senses that come with a human body.
Its a bit late after jumping into the pool to decide we don't want to be wet - it's better to just enjoy the water experience for all it has to offer and Have Fun!

Everything can be used as a launching board into greater expereince and consciousness or a form of escapism from what one thinks must be escaped from.
Free Will Zone
We get to choose

Delve into
or
escape from?

jonesboy
15-12-2015, 11:38 PM
The path isn't about escaping.

The path is realizing it is all thoughts that you can seperate yourself from them.

This is very freeing and only a stage on the road to enlightenment.

The path is one of learning to let go not escape like with drugs or sex or food or sitting around escaping in the astral.

TheGlow
16-12-2015, 12:12 AM
The path isn't about escaping.

The path is realizing it is all thoughts that you can seperate yourself from them.

This is very freeing and only a stage on the road to enlightenment.

The path is one of learning to let go not escape like with drugs or sex or food or sitting around escaping in the astral.
Ok but if you get all detached and dispassionate about the state of our persieved separation are we not at that point accepting what is happening out there every day? How does that illicit change?

If we become comfortable in the new reality and leave them in the old how the heck do they ever find their way out. Most people will never over come the control the media has on them. I just find that if I start to not be bothered I won't reach out. I know I've done good for people in my path because they can tell I really care.

If their pain no longer effects me how would I be compelled me to reach out to them? what help am I to the 99% of society that is stuck in the fear of ABC news?

I'm not saying detatchment is bad for all people but it isn't the right path for everyone.

jonesboy
16-12-2015, 01:08 AM
Who says one is detached from things? Where does dispassion come from? Are you talking about the phase known as dispassion as an aspect of The Witness in Yoga?

The residing or passing through is the upsets. The "things " you think you need to be happy. The ability to let an upset go and not dwell on the want or the past.

The traditions teach you it is all energy. Learning it is all energy as it passes through takes things to a whole different level. To experience an upset as ecstatic energy passing through you is freeing.

With an open heart chakra a radiant joy is experienced on a regular basis.

Like anything this is just a level. A stage and within any level the tide comes and goes. Another way of saying that one can go from residing to caught up in thoughts. It is a gradually process for many.

If nothing else people don't build temples to celebrate dispassion.

All the best

Tom

TheGlow
16-12-2015, 02:03 AM
If nothing else people don't build temples to celebrate dispassion.

All the best

Tom
you only had to say that! lol

Ps I wasn't really talking about your path, you come here and share. That takes empathy and passion. Some arent like you though.

Not even talking buddist or a specific path but some spiritual people seem to make an aim to just be above the happenings. A perminent state of being detached from even emotion, maybe that means they got stuck in another form of escape. I don't know i might be sensative to this because I've known someone who has been stuck there a long time. Seems like they are missing the joy by escaping the less joyful stuff. :)

jonesboy
16-12-2015, 05:35 AM
It is a real stage. One does feel emotionless but it is still a choice to not care. The way through dispassion is to be of service to others.

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Tom

Here is a good article on it.

http://www.aypsite.org/327.html

Melahin
16-12-2015, 06:09 AM
Sometimes dispassion and detachment is a way of working through stuff. It is not about not caring but taking the time to get into the depth of things. Keep in mind that sometimes showing great care for others can be a way of not dealing with yourself. Just saying... it is not the cover but the words inside the book that is worth exploring :smile:

Amilius777
16-12-2015, 06:38 AM
I totally agree with the OP!

The soul is forever evolving and changing. It can never stay static or the same forever.

Where would the fun be in that? And what an egotistical thing for so many people to believe in. It's just as bad as when Christians and Muslims hope to leave this world behind and become rewarded in the next life.

That's not the purpose of living on Earth. Earth is a school, yes but Earth is also a place to bring forth spiritual consciousness and to have fun and experience new things.

I actually feel intuitively that the many "ascended masters" that people look up to such as many Saints and mystics and Masters of religion sometimes "come back" to help awaken others. Christ and Buddha were of such. Christ incarnated from the highest levels of Consciousness, from the Light Itself within Bethlehem to be a savior to his people; but he was before that a highly evolved soul who ascended. Souls like Jesus evolved to their lofty and exalted status not by sheer willforce nor by desire or to become some "spiritual deity", they were pure of heart, overcame their egos and by the Divine Grace were lifted to such heights. The Spirit does things to us and within us DESPITE ourselves. That is why you can't just decide "Im gonna achieve enlightenment in this life!"

Achievement is such a western and dual-minded idea. It's all about success and cutting corners to get away from pain and suffering. But if suffering teaches us anything or loss is that it deepens our Love for others and expands our human love into Divine Love; the Christ Consciousness.

Spiritual achievement is more difficult for us to understand because it is not all us doing it, the other 50% as what one Teacher once said is being done by the Higher Power Him/Her/Itself.

wstein
16-12-2015, 06:41 AM
Agreed, besides if you escape you've left everyone behind to suffer. That is their stuff, not your responsibility. You haven't 'done' anything to them. They get to suffer if they want to. You only get to choose if you suffer (if you want to).

wstein
16-12-2015, 06:51 AM
Ok but if you get all detached and dispassionate about the state of our persieved separation are we not at that point accepting what is happening out there every day? How does that illicit change?
...
If their pain no longer effects me how would I be compelled me to reach out to them? what help am I to the 99% of society that is stuck in the fear of ABC news? One of the benefits of detachment is that you aren't 'compelled' to do anything. You are no longer a puppet being dragged around by what is happening around you. Then you get to act in full expression of who you are. You can help or not help the 99% as is your nature to do so or not do so. Help only when it is in alignment with who you are.

Why would you try to 'illicit' change upon others? Love them by allowing them to be who they are as they are. They have the right to sit in fear watching ABC. Should they take any note, perhaps let them know that you don't watch ABC. Let them deal with this 'new option' as is their nature.

naturesflow
16-12-2015, 06:58 AM
There seems to be a tendency to want to become an "ascended being" that "transcends all this" among many who get into spirituality. I know I've felt and dealt with those feelings before.


Its symbolic on a few levels, ascend what is/transcend all this, in reflection relates to a desire/want/ experience that we create in some form to overcome/move past what is within and transcend what we know is not us. Its a way out of what we know we are not and what we know we are, somewhere within in knowing, but not fully aware of..This natural urge to seek and find out who you really are, takes people down many paths and many ways of creation to learn this and grow through this to end the painbody of life's creation in them from the nature of reality as it is.. We are creative beings creating lives through the many pathways. Seeking ascension and transcending is not necessarily avoiding, more choosing he way in which the being wants to grow and find themselves. Even as you choose a pathway, you wont avoid yourself in that choice. Your simply choosing to embrace your existence in the way your called to embrace it.

I just wanted to share a perspective on it.

Natural human nature is to want to avoid pain and not deal with it (for many) rather than confronting it and accepting it. Pain becomes an excuse for many things and patterns that manifest -- hatred, indifference, etc.

But it can also become a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all. So a path of "higher ascension" where one becomes above all the people around them and is "on the way out" becomes a trick of the ego/self to avoid dealing with existence here on earth.

I think the real "ascension" is the rise to understanding of the importance of accepting our presence here--and accepting that no matter how wise we may perceive ourselves to be, we have tons to learn and may be here quite a while longer. The more deeply we can uncover the pockets of our tendencies to try to escape, resist, or run from the depth of being human, and instead forge toward deep acceptance and love of it/aim to become the best we can be, the more "ascended" we become.

The suffering encourages us to burn out the impurities in our character and love more purely.

Just some thoughts.[/QUOTE]

loopylucid
16-12-2015, 10:13 AM
There seems to be a tendency to want to become an "ascended being" that "transcends all this" among many who get into spirituality. I know I've felt and dealt with those feelings before.

I just wanted to share a perspective on it.

Natural human nature is to want to avoid pain and not deal with it (for many) rather than confronting it and accepting it. Pain becomes an excuse for many things and patterns that manifest -- hatred, indifference, etc.

But it can also become a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all. So a path of "higher ascension" where one becomes above all the people around them and is "on the way out" becomes a trick of the ego/self to avoid dealing with existence here on earth.

I think the real "ascension" is the rise to understanding of the importance of accepting our presence here--and accepting that no matter how wise we may perceive ourselves to be, we have tons to learn and may be here quite a while longer. The more deeply we can uncover the pockets of our tendencies to try to escape, resist, or run from the depth of being human, and instead forge toward deep acceptance and love of it/aim to become the best we can be, the more "ascended" we become.

The suffering encourages us to burn out the impurities in our character and love more purely.

Just some thoughts.

Indeed, that pedestal is sure to make bum's sore muhahaha!

Loopy

skygazer
16-12-2015, 10:42 AM
There seems to be a tendency to want to become an "ascended being" that "transcends all this" among many who get into spirituality. I know I've felt and dealt with those feelings before.

I just wanted to share a perspective on it.

Natural human nature is to want to avoid pain and not deal with it (for many) rather than confronting it and accepting it. Pain becomes an excuse for many things and patterns that manifest -- hatred, indifference, etc.

But it can also become a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all. So a path of "higher ascension" where one becomes above all the people around them and is "on the way out" becomes a trick of the ego/self to avoid dealing with existence here on earth.

I think the real "ascension" is the rise to understanding of the importance of accepting our presence here--and accepting that no matter how wise we may perceive ourselves to be, we have tons to learn and may be here quite a while longer. The more deeply we can uncover the pockets of our tendencies to try to escape, resist, or run from the depth of being human, and instead forge toward deep acceptance and love of it/aim to become the best we can be, the more "ascended" we become.

The suffering encourages us to burn out the impurities in our character and love more purely.

Just some thoughts.

nicely put:smile:

Shinsoo
16-12-2015, 12:50 PM
Also to note, Ascension is not for the faint of heart--as a first timer soul wanting to ascend from 3D to 4d it has been brutal. Just saying--the way to get there isn't often the most comfortable--it can get really really ugly before you see any HINT of improvement.

jonesboy
16-12-2015, 02:54 PM
So what is Ascension and 4d?

Has this improved the quality of your daily life?

What struggles are you having?

Shinsoo
16-12-2015, 04:10 PM
4D is basically the astral plane.

Ascension is basically, rising from a previous dimension of awareness and compassion to the next dimensional level.

Right now my life is rough, but it is getting better. On my particular path, I must let go of all attachment to 3D distractions, which means for me, letting go of food by sticking to a raw organic diet as well as any types of media, hobbies, even music is not to be listened to on my path--it actually lowers my vibration! I must also meditate daily.

It also means cleaning up my act. All the bad habits and attitudes I've picked up in this life as well as others--it has been very slow progress. However, there is some positivity--my mind has been clearer than it has in years. It's not silent by any means, but so much less clutter!

I haven't mastered the raw organic diet yet as my food addiction is strong, but I've given away a lot of books, movies, stuff etc that I no longer use and it definitely feels freeing when I do.

Hope this helps--paths can vary from person person but the goal will most likely always be there--achieving detachment from the 3D world, and achieving universal love.

jonesboy
16-12-2015, 04:59 PM
Shinsoo,

Thank you so much for that. I really enjoyed it.

If you don't mind me asking you another question.

What does lower your vibration mean to you?

Thank you,

Tom

7luminaries
16-12-2015, 05:20 PM
Just want to say....
A very enjoyable thread...really nice reading.
I find myself in agreement with nearly all posts :hug3:

Peace & blessings all!
7L

Shinsoo
16-12-2015, 09:16 PM
Shinsoo,

Thank you so much for that. I really enjoyed it.

If you don't mind me asking you another question.

What does lower your vibration mean to you?

Thank you,

Tom

To me, it simply means you're lowering your "frequency" the lower the frequency, the less you feel connected and have access to, divine love.

You always have access to divine love, but it may not resonate strongly if your vibration is low.

Emm
16-12-2015, 10:20 PM
In my lifetime Ive had one or two what I'd call out if the norm moments. One of them was instigated through a night of absolute terror (it was based on a belief not physical danger) and praying for some peace. Well, waking up the next day after eventually sleeping through sheer exhaustion I got more than I bargained for...I was peace, and love, and it felt sooooo good. The beauty of it was you see everything in a different light. It lasted for about a week before I was back to my normal self but as it disappeared so did my fear.

What I gleaned from this at the time was that we take life far too seriously. The news was on the tv ...the news presenter looking all too serious regaling the latest events about some war that was going on at the time...and something within me laughed. Not at the suffering but at how we so love the drama of it all when we could so easily choose to be different. But there are those who see themselves as heroes or villains and like to play that out. And thats their choice. Even villains can think they are heroes but for a different cause.

Ive read the books and ive listened to some of the theories of what life is all about but speaking from not just that personal incident but others too, I believe we come here in a limited format so that we can discover just how great we really are. We come in forgetfulness of our true nature simply to rediscover it and marvel.

I dont personally believe that Earth is a school, its just a game of fantasy, a playground of make believe, until we want to wake up. No one is better than another, we're all just playing out different dreams in an alternate reality. As for service to others who are suffering...when their suffering becomes too much to bare and we truely desire for something different I believe we will all be shown the light of understanding to remind us that really All is Well and we can simply choose differently.

But that just My personal experience....I could be wrong lol...who really knows for sure

Light Seeker
16-12-2015, 10:50 PM
I got hung up on the soul developing desire a reason the soul starts wanting to escape it all.
My exxperience ( and I have only this one life times recall) is that the Soul is more an entity of perogative as an instrument of creation.

Acension, Well there is a can of worms and no mistake.

Some folk speak of it as a ladder to climb up one step at a time , to improve and refine one small measure by measure. We even managed to impose our human aspirations onto spirituality.

So anyway. Did you put some of your trash in neighbours bin. Have you stolen someone elses parking lot. ? Creation is a multi faceted conglomerate and as the physical manifestation of that process you have to experience your part of the thing and feed back via your soul (think of it as a tentacle or feeler of creation) to source. I digressed sorry.

Your Soul has most likely seen and done it all but you are caught up in this cycle now as a part of that process . No progresion ,No ascension. You have already been a Spirit Guide, A Guardian Spirit and now here you are living again.Or living over again befor ,during or after another living time .( after all time was only ever a man made construct) The cycle continues. And the reason that the whole cycle of creation proceeds is because that there is nothing else for creation to do than create ( creation/source/ God...your choice).

TheGlow
17-12-2015, 04:50 AM
It is a real stage. One does feel emotionless but it is still a choice to not care. The way through dispassion is to be of service to others.

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Tom

Here is a good article on it.

http://www.aypsite.org/327.html
Thanks for the link. I will look tomorrow when I'm more awake.

vespa68
18-12-2015, 12:05 PM
I dont believe that is ascension is about escaping anything. This is a very good question though and some enlightened people have brought up the same issue. I am going through the process myself. I had no idea what ascension was until a few months ago. Prior to this I had a major spiritual awakening which brought out psychic and healing abilities that I never had before. I started getting messages from my guides about it. I am working with an "ascension guide/twin soul"step by step. I can hear him word for word. Ascension is about deprogramming and facing the truth of who you are and the truth of 3D earth which is an illusion. Its about raising consciousness at an accelerated rate. People dont ascend until they completely understand and accept who they truly are and their dimension. Then they would be completely at peace. They have a divine mission to help others evolve as well.

vespa68
18-12-2015, 12:20 PM
@jonesboy to clarify your thread which was on to something :-).

An enlightened person would be detached because they would have worked on their issues, understood them and accepted them. What people get confused about, just because a person is detached does not mean they would not lack compassion, it is the opposite because since they understand their issues they can better understand others. It also gives them more clarity.Their heart opens up because they know themsleves deeply and have room for more love in their heart.

Mr Interesting
18-12-2015, 07:55 PM
Amongst all the other things happening all the time I found some time to pick up several packing crate, nope, pallets; that's what they are, of exotic rainforest timber and I don't really have any idea what I might use them for but it's very good timber which is well seasoned and it's free so I took the time to stop and stack it all on the roof of my car and then rope it all up.

The thing was though that there quite a bit of it and alot of it is a little broken so this quite precarious and slightly bouncy mound of wood was only there for the time it took me to get it home, which isn't very far, but then I left it on the car when I got home and then the next morning when I'd already forgotten it was there and decided to go somewhere I had the decision to make whether to leave it there or just drive around with it up there... so I went for the second.

Then last night I was at my brothers and my nephew turned up and he was like 'What's going on with your car? I was driving up and suddenly saw that little car and it had this precarious pile of broken wood on it and it was a complete "What's that about?" and what are you going to make from it? Is it really good wood or is it firewood?' It was like he really wanted there to be a system of cause and effect which resulted in irrational becoming rational and reasonable. My answer was, and it just occurred to me, was that it was something which had only been intended to be a short and chancy affair where I'd hoped to merely get home, a short distance, without it falling off and then the simple fact that it hadn't sort of opened up the possibility of this slightly mad attempt to maybe start driving all over the place to just see how long I can get away with such weirdness.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/quickkiwi/IMG_20151219_082033_zpsvb2z3ymy.jpg
So, of course, I've also published the photo on facebook with this explanation.

"Artwork 41 in the series of successfully unsuccessful artworks; The precariousness of shipping our ethics, the foundations of the idea possessed being, on the luggage racks of our transport (definitions of self) across the roads of interactivity (existence). Appointments to view unrequired except possibly your own luck might allow you the chance to stand back and review such as it passes by completely unannounced as anything relevant."

Maybe I could take it a step further and write ' I am a completely responsible human being and the relevance of what you are reading after seeing what you have seen is completely obvious' in like quite big letters around the car and then carry on in smaller letters... ' but it may not strike you as so straight away and so the slot for donations to allow me to carry on being irrelevent may not be as obvious as I might feel is adequate to the herein defined purposes of what this is' and then in even smaller letters ' so as you can see I haven't thought this out with any kind of clarity so if you've even gotten this far I'm not sure I can help you with the proviso that that was never really my intention except to say that this isn't on any required reading list of any significance whatsoever'

And all I've actually done is put a pile of wood on my car and the world is a completely different place than it was yesterday.... I'm kinda thinkin' that it always was, and always is, but it seems embracing so much irrelevance as possible relevant to who even knows what seems to make everyday a glorious and compelling opening to explore my own silliness.