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clovelly
16-01-2011, 11:09 AM
I have noticed that every person I know is going through a major shift in their lives and are forced to re-valuate all aspects of how they live their lives: home, relationships, finances, etc.

Those only focusing on their physically aspects seem to be facing large barriers which seem to be getting denser and denser, and frustrations are building because they cannot break past these barriers with the methods that have worked in the past.

Those looking to connect to the soul and searching within themselves are enjoying the experience of change and growth, and going with the flow.

There has been so much communication about these shifts taking place on the planet. It’s an amazing time we are living in.

Has anyone else noticed the extreme changes in the lives of people they know?

shepherd
16-01-2011, 11:47 AM
Interesting post Clovelly.

Is there a need to look within? It does seem plenty of people are very happy without any need to to look anywhere.

I sometimes wonder if all this soul searching just makes some people too serious and too self aware.

Falling Star
16-01-2011, 11:58 AM
I do not believe that we choose to soul search to extreme Shepherd. It seems to be a natural process of our awakening consciousness. Heehee.

glenos
16-01-2011, 12:01 PM
I've been on it for 40yrs plus. Good on anyone who has the scales of ignorance falling from their eyes. That's only the begining of it all...


G

shepherd
16-01-2011, 12:05 PM
I do not believe that we choose to soul search to extreme Shepherd. It seems to be a natural process of our awakening consciousness. Heehee.

Whilst that might be true for some, I am not sure it is for others.

clovelly
16-01-2011, 12:07 PM
I think I am more with your thoughts Falling Star and that’s what I’m finding interesting. Watching everyone, I have noticed that they all are being forced to look within, especially those that haven't consciously done any soul searching.

Those that have only looked at life on a physical level are now being forced to change their thinking, because the way they have built their lives seems to be falling from under their feet, so to say.

Also noticed that friends that are more into their spirituality are also changing, but not as drastically. They are having fun and enjoying the process, just taking each day as it comes.

Gem
16-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Interesting post Clovelly.

Is there a need to look within? It does seem plenty of people are very happy without any need to to look anywhere.

I sometimes wonder if all this soul searching just makes some people too serious and too self aware.

Surely taking a deep inner look is a prudent thing to do.

Falling Star
16-01-2011, 12:16 PM
I think I am more with your thoughts Falling Star and that’s what I’m finding interesting. Watching everyone, I have noticed that they all are being forced to look within, especially those that haven't consciously done any soul searching.

Those that have only looked at life on a physical level are now being forced to change their thinking, because the way they have built their lives seems to be falling from under their feet, so to say.

Also noticed that friends that are more into their spirituality are also changing, but not as drastically. They are having fun and enjoying the process, just taking each day as it comes.

I feel that we are evolving en-masse Clovelly. And that can really only be a good thing.
We are realising the illusion..........awakening!

shepherd
16-01-2011, 12:17 PM
Surely taking a deep inner look is a prudent thing to do.

I could agree but that maybe my spiritual conditioning talking. What does someone achieve from taking a deeper look? Is it possible that someone else may already be experiencing that which others are seeking?

Is looking within a metaphorical process which just creates more spiritual metaphors to hopefully live a different life by? Not that's wrong but if someone were say perfectly happy, should someone be preaching to them that they should look within and at what exactly?

Falling Star
16-01-2011, 12:23 PM
I believe that we are all at varying levels of growth, and the inner journey to ultimate truth isn't triggered until it is supposed too. If people are happy as they are, then they won't or won't need to be affected by inner growth.

At the end of the journey is bliss and total healing.

clovelly
16-01-2011, 12:45 PM
Shepherd, not long ago I could analyze with the same thoughts as you. But just watching around I still agree with Falling Star, that we are at all different levels of growth and are all being pushed on masse to awaken because it is too coincidental to happen to so many people.

What does someone achieve from taking a deeper look?
They won’t have many places to look at the reason for their problems, except from within.

Is it possible that someone else may already be experiencing that which others are seeking?
They have so much built up anger, frustration and confusion, so I don’t think that they are already experiencing what others are seeking.

Is looking within a metaphorical process which just creates more spiritual metaphors to hopefully live a different life by?
It can be if you want to run your head around words and not get in touch with your soul.

Not that's wrong but if someone were say perfectly happy, should someone be preaching to them that they should look within and at what exactly?
That’s the point, nobody that has only looked at their physical aspects is happy and their world is falling apart. The only people I know that are having an easy life are focused on the spiritual aspects of life. And I wouldn’t even bring up the subject to my friends, it would be too sensitive to mention, so definitely no preaching.

Falling Star
16-01-2011, 12:53 PM
Shepherd, not long ago I could analyze with the same thoughts as you. But just watching around I still agree with Falling Star, that we are at all different levels of growth and are all being pushed on masse to awaken because it is too coincidental to happen to so many people.

What does someone achieve from taking a deeper look?
They won’t have many places to look at the reason for their problems, except from within.

Is it possible that someone else may already be experiencing that which others are seeking?
They have so much built up anger, frustration and confusion, so I don’t think that they are already experiencing what others are seeking.

Is looking within a metaphorical process which just creates more spiritual metaphors to hopefully live a different life by?
It can be if you want to run your head around words and not get in touch with your soul.

Not that's wrong but if someone were say perfectly happy, should someone be preaching to them that they should look within and at what exactly?
That’s the point, nobody that has only looked at their physical aspects is happy and their world is falling apart. The only people I know that are having an easy life are focused on the spiritual aspects of life. And I wouldn’t even bring up the subject to my friends, it would be too sensitive to mention, so definitely no preaching.

That's it Clovelly it's the souls journey and sooner or later we are going to wake up to our eternal truth as souls.

I relate to this...........*We are not human beings on a spiritual journey, We are spiritual beings on a human journey.

Soul awakening is not something we can put off or avoid..........it is a natural process of our evolving

Gem
16-01-2011, 12:54 PM
I could agree but that maybe my spiritual conditioning talking. What does someone achieve from taking a deeper look? Is it possible that someone else may already be experiencing that which others are seeking?

Is looking within a metaphorical process which just creates more spiritual metaphors to hopefully live a different life by? Not that's wrong but if someone were say perfectly happy, should someone be preaching to them that they should look within and at what exactly?

Notice life issues wish and to resolve these things, and there is the layers of the phsyce to unfurl in that resolution. Emotions tied into memories, deeper subconcious reactionary behaviours and beliefs of self worth.

People reach inside to unravel these things because they are not out there running around like deer.

I guess the seeker is looking for God or enlightenment... phew, good luck!

Ivy
16-01-2011, 12:58 PM
Shepherd...if someone were perfectly happy, being preached to about looking within would not touch them with anything more than further happiness. Its quite unlikely they would even see it as being 'preached' to...perhaps they would see a person happy and seeking and wanting to share that with the world.

Clovelly, in a similar way to shepherds 'happy person'...when you are experiencing change, it is usual to notice change all around you. But there are always shiftiing energies...its an ongoing journey right back to the big bang and possibly before then......

shepherd
16-01-2011, 01:03 PM
The only people I know that are having an easy life are focused on the spiritual aspects of life. And I wouldn’t even bring up the subject to my friends, it would be too sensitive to mention, so definitely no preaching.
The thing is, I am seeing the opposite. The happiest people I know are not remotely interested in anything spiritual at all. They are getting on with their lives and just living life. No soul searching, no debating the meaning of life, no getting caught up in belief systems, no wandering around in circles asking questions which have no answers.

Most of the clients I help are spiritual and in lots of ways their spiritual nature isnt helping them. I dont think its spirituality thats the problem but the conditioned spirituality which is the current accepted form. It can really stress people out and there are many reasons why.

My point is that whilst some want to go soul searching, find who they are, be their true selves, enlightened and so on, there are many who are just living their lives and for many I know just loving their lives. No deep meaning needed. I am sure some would say they are are a sleep or unenlightened etc but that could be a false judgement based on spiritual conditioning.

I think there is a danger that spiritual soul searching can make someone take life far to seriously as they have to manage more beliefs than the average Joe.

clovelly
16-01-2011, 01:07 PM
That's it Clovelly it's the souls journey and sooner or later we are going to wake up to our eternal truth as souls.

I relate to this...........*We are not human beings on a spiritual journey, We are spiritual beings on a human journey.

Soul awakening is not something we can put off or avoid..........it is a natural process of our evolving

It is a beautiful time to be dwelling on this planet, witnessing so much growth :angel12:

Sira
16-01-2011, 01:11 PM
From my personal experience we have an inbuilt timer that goes off at a certain point. My best estimate at the moment is that we have then experienced and learnt what we were meant to, on the outside, and after that starts the inner quest: who am I, where am I, why am I. :hug3:

clovelly
16-01-2011, 01:11 PM
The thing is, I am seeing the opposite. The happiest people I know are not remotely interested in anything spiritual at all. They are getting on with their lives and just living life. No soul searching, no debating the meaning of life, no getting caught up in belief systems, no wandering around in circles asking questions which have no answers.

Most of the clients I help are spiritual and in lots of ways their spiritual nature isnt helping them. I dont think its spirituality thats the problem but the conditioned spirituality which is the current accepted form. It can really stress people out and there are many reasons why.

My point is that whilst some want to go soul searching, find who they are, be their true selves, enlightened and so on, there are many who are just living their lives and for many I know just loving their lives. No deep meaning needed. I am sure some would say they are are a sleep or unenlightened etc but that could be a false judgement based on spiritual conditioning.

I think there is a danger that spiritual soul searching can make someone take life far to seriously as they have to manage more beliefs than the average Joe.

What you are saying is what I saw for so long. Maybe it's just my friends and family that are all going through major changes. :confused:

God-Like
17-01-2011, 08:20 AM
Those looking to connect to the soul and searching within themselves are enjoying the experience of change and growth, and going with the flow.


Hi Clovelly.

The deeper you go within will allow you to extend what Is realized by that same measure outwardly.

x daz x

Ivy
17-01-2011, 09:48 AM
The thing is, I am seeing the opposite. The happiest people I know are not remotely interested in anything spiritual at all. They are getting on with their lives and just living life. No soul searching, no debating the meaning of life, no getting caught up in belief systems, no wandering around in circles asking questions which have no answers.

Most of the clients I help are spiritual and in lots of ways their spiritual nature isnt helping them. I dont think its spirituality thats the problem but the conditioned spirituality which is the current accepted form. It can really stress people out and there are many reasons why.

My point is that whilst some want to go soul searching, find who they are, be their true selves, enlightened and so on, there are many who are just living their lives and for many I know just loving their lives. No deep meaning needed. I am sure some would say they are are a sleep or unenlightened etc but that could be a false judgement based on spiritual conditioning.

I think there is a danger that spiritual soul searching can make someone take life far to seriously as they have to manage more beliefs than the average Joe.
Shepherd...this is doing exactly what you observe others doing.

LOOK

Looking within and soul searching will bring you true happiness...those who dont look inside are living their lives in un-happiness, wondering round in sleepy circles....come follow me people for I am enlightened.

THEN LOOK again...

The happiest people are those not soul searching and looking within....those who look inside are far too serious and wondering around in circles....come follow me people for I can help you.

In reality there are people who are happy looking within....and there are people who are happy not looking within.....there are those with everything who are happy and those with nothing who are happy.

But here, happiness is being used as a sweety to get people to follow....did you ever think that it is the following itself that leads people down a path that isnt right for them??? Using the same method to get them to follow you instead of someone else doesnt release them from this pattern...it just gives them new clothes to wear....but leaves them as vulnerable as ever to following.

shepherd
17-01-2011, 11:44 AM
In reality there are people who are happy looking within....and there are people who are happy not looking within.....there are those with everything who are happy and those with nothing who are happy.
That's what I was pointing out hence asking if looking within was necessary. Different things work for different people, hence why I mentioned if someone was perfectly happy why would anyone preach to them that they should search within?

But here, happiness is being used as a sweety to get people to follow....did you ever think that it is the following itself that leads people down a path that isnt right for them??? Using the same method to get them to follow you instead of someone else doesnt release them from this pattern...it just gives them new clothes to wear....but leaves them as vulnerable as ever to following.
Heather, LOOK at your perception...is it the truth?

We live in world where our behaviours, emotions and thoughts are affected by so many factors leading to a life which may or may not work so well. Whether our perception is true or not about seeking to be happier. I know that my life has changed from reading a sentence or listening to some advice which altered my perception of the world for the better. When I followed I got lost when there was no following but simply exploring, curiousity, play and intention I found what worked. What I offer through my work is not following, its choice, exploration, curiousity and for people to work out what is right for them. Simple really and no vulnerability left in the mix.

Gem
17-01-2011, 12:11 PM
That's what I was pointing out hence asking if looking within was necessary. Different things work for different people, hence why I mentioned if someone was perfectly happy why would anyone preach to them that they should search within?

it's just that when people want to resolve their emotional issues, in themself is where it's at, so everyone does look within.


Heather, LOOK at your perception...is it the truth?

We live in world where our behaviours, emotions and thoughts are affected by so many factors leading to a life which may or may not work so well. Whether our perception is true or not about seeking to be happier. I know that my life has changed from reading a sentence or listening to some advice which altered my perception of the world for the better. When I followed I got lost when there was no following but simply exploring, curiousity, play and intention I found what worked. What I offer through my work is not following, its choice, exploration, curiousity and for people to work out what is right for them. Simple really and no vulnerability left in the mix.

Sometimes I reckon things are so overthought that actual observation becomes secondary to the conjecture, but there is a time to look within and everyone does it.

BlueSky
17-01-2011, 12:17 PM
I have noticed that every person I know is going through a major shift in their lives and are forced to re-valuate all aspects of how they live their lives: home, relationships, finances, etc.

Those only focusing on their physically aspects seem to be facing large barriers which seem to be getting denser and denser, and frustrations are building because they cannot break past these barriers with the methods that have worked in the past.

Those looking to connect to the soul and searching within themselves are enjoying the experience of change and growth, and going with the flow.

There has been so much communication about these shifts taking place on the planet. It’s an amazing time we are living in.

Has anyone else noticed the extreme changes in the lives of people they know?

There could be a shift going on but personally the idea doesn't sit right with me if by "shift", one means some pre-destined evolutionary process.
I believe that the "shift" being noticed of people changing in a positive way could very well be because the state of the world and the economy has kind of slapped many in the face who never considered anything deeper about themselves than where are they going to take their next vacation.
I also think we cause these cyclic changes in the world as a whole and with them, comes changes within us, which are the cause for the next cyclic change. Better or worse.
IMO.....it may be up to us to decide.
James

shepherd
17-01-2011, 12:42 PM
it's just that when people want to resolve their emotional issues, in themself is where it's at, so everyone does look within.

Of course, if you have an issue the first place to look is within, I would disagree with the any generalised approach that says everyone has issues and everyone needs to look within. Some people don't have issues and some people never need to look within.

Ivy
17-01-2011, 12:46 PM
Shepherd, Im pointing out the methods that you are using to put across your argument. And they are the very same methods that are often used to put across the opposite argument....and that you are suggesting shouldn't be used by the opposition.

You are preaching that preachers shouldnt preach.

I may not disagree with some of your views and opinions, but I disagree with the methods you use to put them across.

God-Like
17-01-2011, 12:47 PM
Of course, if you have an issue the first place to look is within, I would disagree with the any generalised approach that says everyone has issues and everyone needs to look within. Some people don't have issues and some people never need to look within.
Hi Shepherd

Would you agree that there are many that are unaware that they have deep rooted and undiscovered Issues?

What levels of happiness does one need to be In experience of where looking within would not be regarded as advantageous on some level?

I suppose many could see It as rocking the boat lol.

I don't suppose an Individual knows how happy they truly are until there Is a moment when they feel happier

x daz x

Gem
17-01-2011, 12:55 PM
Of course, if you have an issue the first place to look is within, I would disagree with the any generalised approach that says everyone has issues and everyone needs to look within. Some people don't have issues and some people never need to look within.

Seems to me people have inner lives which consist of ever increasing subtlty of feeling, and they have outer lives which a is a chain of events and activity, and I think that's so starkly evident it goes without saying.

Everyone observes their inner feelings and their outer events, and harmony is in the balance.

shepherd
17-01-2011, 01:00 PM
Hi Shepherd

Would you agree that there are many that are unaware that they have deep rooted and undiscovered Issues?

You could see it that way, especially if their lives are being influenced by them.

But would you agree that there are people living their lives with no issues at all, deep rooted or unconsciously hidden?

I only work with people who have issues which effect their lives in some way and need help to change that. Usually anxiety management is all that is needed, sometimes its more.

What levels of happiness does one need to be In experience of where looking within would not be regarded as advantageous on some level?

No idea as how can you measure happiness? What would the agenda be of someone telling someone who says they are perfectly happy what they should measure it and try and find more?

BlueSky
17-01-2011, 01:09 PM
would you agree that there are people living their lives with no issues at all, deep rooted or unconsciously hidden? Shephard


If I may jump in and contribute to this topic above................
I guess we cannot really know what goes on inside someone else but from my life experience, I would say from what I notice is, seemingly these people exist and I have become one of them thru an exhausting journey of “needing” to grow spiritually.

James

shepherd
17-01-2011, 01:10 PM
Shepherd, Im pointing out the methods that you are using to put across your argument. And they are the very same methods that are often used to put across the opposite argument....and that you are suggesting shouldn't be used by the opposition.

You are preaching that preachers shouldnt preach.

I may not disagree with some of your views and opinions, but I disagree with the methods you use to put them across.
Actually Heather I am not preaching anything, I simply am exploring this out of interest with some personal observations and some different perspectives whilst thinking out loud just like everyone else. Nowhere have I said I am right or wrong in this thread. It would be lovely if you could just let go of your perceptions of me and just read the posts for what they are just like the other members are doing. I am genuinly interested exploring this subject but your personal judgements tend to taint that interest.


(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26amp%3Bp%3D 117673)

God-Like
17-01-2011, 01:10 PM
But would you agree that there are people living their lives with no issues at all, deep rooted or unconsciously hidden?

I would say that one persons Issue Is not an Issue for another. Self enquiry brings what matters to the individual to the surface. Most I would say will find something worth looking at If they looked within.



No idea as how can you measure happiness?
I would say that If you feel happier today than you did yesterday that would be a good start hehe he

x daz x

Ivy
17-01-2011, 01:18 PM
Actually Heather I am not preaching anything, I simply am exploring this out of interest with some personal observations and some different perspectives whilst thinking out loud just like everyone else. Nowhere have I said I am right or wrong in this thread. It would be lovely if you could just let go of your perceptions of me and just read the posts for what they are just like the other members are doing. I am genuinly interested exploring this subject but your personal judgements tend to taint that interest.


(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fnewreply.php%253Fd o%253Dnewreply%2526amp%253Bp%253D117673)

No, there wasnt a personal judgement - I provides an example from the language that you used. You are able to comment on those examples without the spin.

shepherd
17-01-2011, 01:43 PM
No, there wasnt a personal judgement - I provides an example from the language that you used. You are able to comment on those examples without the spin.

Maybe someone can suggest a looking within process for you to see what is really going on maybe its a coincidence that you seem to get personal with my posts?



I would say that If you feel happier today than you did yesterday that would be a good start hehe he

Very true Daz and today despite the UK media labelling this the most depressing day in the year, I hope that people are happier today then yesterday.

God-Like
17-01-2011, 01:47 PM
Very true Daz and today despite the UK media labelling this the most depressing day in the year, I hope that people are happier today then yesterday.
I second that.

Perhaps we could have "A looking within day" too lol.

I am sure that If It was made a public holiday people would become happier hehe he

It could become the most happiest day of the year.. :smile:

x daz x

Falling Star
17-01-2011, 01:48 PM
I am HAPPEEEEEEE! I have gone within and found myself via the promptings of my soul! Heehee!

Ivy
17-01-2011, 01:58 PM
I terms of whether or not people should or shouldn't look within...or whether it comes to all. I dont believe there is an answer.

I have experienced people who follow the same psychological patterns over and over, and may benefit from deconstructing those conditioned ways by looking within.

Ive known people coerced/manipulated into looking way more deeply than they are emotionally ready to do. Thats something Ive fought against.

And part of that manipulation is selling people the belief that they will/are becoming masters, endlessly loving and happy, here to save the world (or whatever their ego desires) I dont believe they make it much further within than conning themselves into believing theyve got there already. But certainly if there is an underlying need for that goal to be verified by others, then there is a huge risk of psychological damage being done in the dissapointment.

I believe if a person has no issues, then nothing will be sparked or touched if someone tells them to look within...likewise, I dont believe they would end up messed up by looking within if they were perfectly happy before.

So, much I agree with and I recognise the dangers. But I recognise that the damage is not necessarily spirituality or any strain of it. It is the way its sold to people. Its nothing personal to you shepherd. Its what I believe on the subject. But I am an experiencer, not a theorist.

BlueSky
17-01-2011, 02:13 PM
I am HAPPEEEEEEE! I have gone within and found myself via the promptings of my soul! Heehee!

I can sense that............awesome! :smile:

shepherd
17-01-2011, 03:07 PM
So, much I agree with and I recognise the dangers. But I recognise that the damage is not necessarily spirituality or any strain of it. It is the way its sold to people. Its nothing personal to you shepherd. Its what I believe on the subject. But I am an experiencer, not a theorist.

As I can't see this really having anything to do with me then It would be weird to take it personally. As spirituality IMO is all theory regardless of our experiences or beliefs then I am a theorist and experiencer as theories inspire my curiousity which is energising and mind opening, the experiences that come with that are enjoyed and explored.

Ivy
17-01-2011, 04:58 PM
As I can't see this really having anything to do with me then It would be weird to take it personally. As spirituality IMO is all theory regardless of our experiences or beliefs then I am a theorist and experiencer as theories inspire my curiousity which is energising and mind opening, the experiences that come with that are enjoyed and explored.

Yes. Like Ive said, it wasnt personal. The point was simply that if one person says - most of the people I know are looking within and are happy. And the other person says, most of the people I know are happy and are not remotely interested in anything spiritual....etc. Then you are both using the association of 'happiness' to make a case for your own point of view. You went on to point out that most of your clients in therapy are spiritual and this is not helping them at all. They are both personally biased views.

As piggy in the middle, perhaps there are more intricate understandings to be found.

Silver
17-01-2011, 05:07 PM
I could agree but that maybe my spiritual conditioning talking. What does someone achieve from taking a deeper look? Is it possible that someone else may already be experiencing that which others are seeking?

Is looking within a metaphorical process which just creates more spiritual metaphors to hopefully live a different life by? Not that's wrong but if someone were say perfectly happy, should someone be preaching to them that they should look within and at what exactly?

Undoubtedly, when one looks within themselves, examines, takes stock, they discover something they didn't really 'know' yet was there pretty much all along. It can be an eye opener. It gives a person a chance to change it. Also, if you see things inside yourself that've gone unexamined for a long time or forever, you realize this character trait or aspect exists in others, too. A surprising attitude, things you didn't expect, sometimes we avert our glance and forgetaboutit, or we feel the need to change it, get rid of it or strengthen it. Got Awareness?

shepherd
17-01-2011, 05:31 PM
Yes. Like Ive said, it wasnt personal. The point was simply that if one person says - most of the people I know are looking within and are happy. And the other person says, most of the people I know are happy and are not remotely interested in anything spiritual....etc. Then you are both using the association of 'happiness' to make a case for your own point of view. You went on to point out that most of your clients in therapy are spiritual and this is not helping them at all. They are both personally biased views.

To be honest, this is what every member does when posting. We all talk from personal experience to validate or put forward points of view. The difference here is that I have no right or wrong to promote, I simply offered some perspectives based on experiences and members can then discuss them. If I was argueing that I was right and someone was wrong then yes I can see why someone may pull me up on it, which I didn't.

It is a true statement that most people who come to see me with anxiety and are of a spiritual nature are usually not being helped by their spirituality. Wether it is a Catholic, Christian or new age spiritualist, the reason they come to see me is usually affected by the way they see their world and spirituality can play a huge part in that. There are millions unaffected by their spirituality and millions unaffected by having no spirituality. Its all different for everyone. I can only mention who comes to see me as with issues as thats what people come to see me for LOL.

it is also ok to have a biased view, if there is anyone here who hasnt got biased views based on their personal experiences and way they see the world, please create a thread on it and share how you do it ;0)

BlueSky
17-01-2011, 05:39 PM
the reason they come to see me is usually affected by the way they see their world and spirituality can play a huge part in that. There are millions unaffected by their spirituality and millions unaffected by having no spirituality. Shepherd

This says so much to me and is also what I have noticed. If one believes this and has seen it for themselves then there is alot between the lines of what you wrote above.
Nice post....James

Ivy
17-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Lol, and if I talk about your therapy...I would be being personal.

I think if you are picking up clients in spiritual circles then ofcours. But there are many therapists who work in different areas, such as drugs, bereavement, abuse and I doubt very much that most of their clients are in need of therapy because of spirituality. But ofcourse people with an interest in spirituality may also have issues that require therapy.

But as I pointed out, there is a great deal more depth to those cases. But when you look beyond the personal bias, these discussions have the capability to go beyond generalisations and start looking at what is triggering these difficulties in people.

I have given examples of this on the previous page.

shepherd
17-01-2011, 06:18 PM
But as I pointed out, there is a great deal more depth to those cases. But when you look beyond the personal bias, these discussions have the capability to go beyond generalisations and start looking at what is triggering these difficulties in people.
Thats great for a client but not really appropriate for a forum. We all talk in degrees of generalisation on here or posts would be pages long and I cant list every difficulty triggering issues. It might be a bit unrealistic to expect the bigger picture in every post especially when mentioning something in part. I do see where you are coming from Heather but like myself and everyone else here, there will be some generalisation. I am ok with that. Maybe we could make a deal to have no expectations of our posts?

shepherd
17-01-2011, 06:19 PM
the reason they come to see me is usually affected by the way they see their world and spirituality can play a huge part in that. There are millions unaffected by their spirituality and millions unaffected by having no spirituality. Shepherd

This says so much to me and is also what I have noticed. If one believes this and has seen it for themselves then there is alot between the lines of what you wrote above.
Nice post....James
Thanks James.

Also to be clear I am not 100% sure we need to explore within, whilst I am nearly there and agree with nearly all the points raised about the benefits, I can also see areas where it doesnt help but this may be just where inner exploration is out of balance.

de.spin
17-01-2011, 07:07 PM
I have noticed that every person I know is going through a major shift in their lives and are forced to re-valuate all aspects of how they live their lives: home, relationships, finances, etc.

Those only focusing on their physically aspects seem to be facing large barriers which seem to be getting denser and denser, and frustrations are building because they cannot break past these barriers with the methods that have worked in the past.

Those looking to connect to the soul and searching within themselves are enjoying the experience of change and growth, and going with the flow.

There has been so much communication about these shifts taking place on the planet. It’s an amazing time we are living in.

Has anyone else noticed the extreme changes in the lives of people they know?

I do not believe in spiritual growth. I believe there is no "spirituality".

I do not believe there is any soul, or spirit, either.

I do not search anything. Yet my life is very interesting. I tend to be contented with anything that happens. And there is a sort of capacity, a tendency to accept...even when "****"! happens...

In my experience, I've met many people "on the spiritual path", and I have come to the conclusion that the worst kind of ego is the spiritual one.

My "capacity" to accept and enjoy the happening of life is nothing special, nothing that I can brag about, nothing that I have in any way deserved or attained. It just happens. I couldn't teach any technique about it.

I see many people unhappy. Some "on the spiritual path", others "common people". People trapped in themselves, as to say. People so much identified with their own thoughts, acts, feelings.

I don't know much about happiness. What is happiness, just en emotion passing by. But I know people just contented, enjoying life. No higher goal to reach. No big purpose. Nothing higher to attain.

Higher than what, then. Isn't this enough?

shepherd
18-01-2011, 07:50 AM
Very interesting post de.spin, I was wondering if anyone would reply but so far it's gone dead.

Did you have a spiritual path at some point or seek within to get you where you are now?

BlueSky
18-01-2011, 12:28 PM
Very interesting post de.spin, I was wondering if anyone would reply but so far it's gone dead.

Did you have a spiritual path at some point or seek within to get you where you are now?
It is a tough thing to respond to Shepherd. I mean what does it mean when someone says that they don't believe in spirituality?
IMO, it is one thing to just not know and another to not believe.
IMO, believing and not believing are the same thing.
I don't know de.spin but these are things that come to my mind when I read his post.
Care to elaborate some more on your post de.spin.............I just am curious as to exactly what you mean.
Thanks..James

shepherd
18-01-2011, 01:02 PM
It is a tough thing to respond to Shepherd. I mean what does it mean when someone says that they don't believe in spirituality?

Well in a way maybe de.spin has a good point, spirituality is a label for aspects of life. Anyone could debate that spirituality is just life itself and the label is trying to seperate an aspect of life and call it spirituality which then creates its rules and regs on what is part of it.

For me spirit just means life, every aspect of life is energy which also is the spirit part.

Maybe another thread labelled do we need the term spirituality would be interesting?

Gem
18-01-2011, 01:17 PM
People look inside because that's where aspects of them are and they look outside too, and as they find, there are deep aspects of a person and very deep reaches of outer space, it can't be helped, it just happens to be that way, and this musing isn't making it go away now is it?

bbr
18-01-2011, 01:27 PM
I do not believe in spiritual growth. I believe there is no "spirituality".

I do not believe there is any soul, or spirit, either.

I do not search anything. Yet my life is very interesting. I tend to be contented with anything that happens. And there is a sort of capacity, a tendency to accept...even when "****"! happens...

In my experience, I've met many people "on the spiritual path", and I have come to the conclusion that the worst kind of ego is the spiritual one.

My "capacity" to accept and enjoy the happening of life is nothing special, nothing that I can brag about, nothing that I have in any way deserved or attained. It just happens. I couldn't teach any technique about it.

I see many people unhappy. Some "on the spiritual path", others "common people". People trapped in themselves, as to say. People so much identified with their own thoughts, acts, feelings.

I don't know much about happiness. What is happiness, just en emotion passing by. But I know people just contented, enjoying life. No higher goal to reach. No big purpose. Nothing higher to attain.

Higher than what, then. Isn't this enough?Great. And that's called being an athesist, or an agnostic. Or maybe even a nihilist. But it has nothing to do with spirituality. I could write a similar post regarding my view of religion. But what would that reveal, other than I'm not a religious person?

shepherd
18-01-2011, 01:31 PM
People look inside because that's where aspects of them are and they look outside too, and as they find, there are deep aspects of a person and very deep reaches of outer space, it can't be helped, it just happens to be that way, and this musing isn't making it go away now is it?

Gem that's an assumption based on what you think is true, whilst I could agree with you, it's worth discussing as despite what you think, others have another opinion based on their experiences.

Greenslade
18-01-2011, 01:36 PM
Well in a way maybe de.spin has a good point, spirituality is a label for aspects of life. Anyone could debate that spirituality is just life itself and the label is trying to seperate an aspect of life and call it spirituality which then creates its rules and regs on what is part of it.

For me spirit just means life, every aspect of life is energy which also is the spirit part.

Maybe another thread labelled do we need the term spirituality would be interesting?

I personally believe de.spin's made some good points. Perhaps - just my perspective on the post - de.spin feels as if there isn't much point in going much further than simply being de.spin. If that works, good enough. I also get the feeling that de.spin's disillusioned with the 'Look at me, I'm a Spiritualist' bit.

Do we cloud the issue with Spiritual techno-babble and the like, claiming we are awake and can see past the illusion? Who is really awake after all? If we are Spirit on a human Journey, is Spiritualism looking out of the window while the teacher is talking?

Gem
18-01-2011, 01:45 PM
Gem that's an assumption based on what you think is true, whilst I could agree with you, it's worth discussing as despite what you think, others have another opinion based on their experiences.

I'm left no doubt that all people have deeper inner aspects, that's an observation. I could make assumptions about that observation, but regardless of what assumptions I might make, the observation itself remains unchanged.

harley's mum
18-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Hello Clovelly and all...

well golly gosh what a heated thread and I would like to jump in and hello to Shepard been an admirer...

I subscribe to the university of life theory in as much as for myself known to say I am on the accelerated learning path whereas there are some as Shepard says quite contented beings that see no need to nor desire to "look within" they just live and you could say that are very happy to stay in kindergarden and there are those that move on a bit to the highschool of life and get caught up in hormonal issues does he love me will he commit how will my life be what should I do with my life and they actually think they have some control...lol...:rolleyes:

I have often told people that none of us knows what or who the fickle finger of fate has in store for us but like a scout or girl guide in the just be prepared for whatever happens happens it just is what it is...
there are some wonderful sayings such as "ignorance is bliss" how true and another good one and quite apt in the case of many "spiritual seekers" that is "a LITTLE knowledge can be a dangerous thing" there was an interesting article I once read saying how confused people can get when they start shopping around for a "spiritual path" and dip in and out of different philosophies...
in physics there is the "as in the one so in the whole" which relates to the original comments from Clovelly also I would like to add and again this is IMO having travelled the world that indeed we share a thing called "the human condition" and that no thought is unique or owned for example many many times around the world scientists working in secret have both reached the same conclusion at the same time and for example somewhere in Iceland for example can be somebody having this exact same thought or conversation as I am having with you all right now... I like to think of it as the universal mind... when you are trying to remember something well the universal mind knows the answer so forget the desire and ta da the information you were seeking pops into your mind like magic...

I like to think the path is "self realization" and you and me we all just have to figure things out for ourselves and even the Buddha said believe nothing even what I tell you until you realize it for yourself...

now I know that there will be many on the SF that will jump on words that I have used today but this is just my thoughts it just is what it is what it is....

Ivy
18-01-2011, 02:15 PM
There seems to me, to be a time when we get over what somethings called and all the techno-babble. It ceases to matter. And when we stop clasping onto our own language, it can be seen that many people, apparently having very different beliefs, essentially have the same outlook on life - they just use different metaphors to describe it.

Personally, looking within is psychological, it has nothing to do with sprit. And spirit is energy...it is 'a spirited horse'...the 'spirit of the highlands'...the 'spirit of a friend (dead or alive)'. Heaven is a description of mood and sensual pleasure...hell is a description of mood and difficult circumstance.

To me seeking is curiosity/showing an interest in life, outside, inside, otherside lol...just whatever occurs.

And sometimes when I read I wonder at all the defining and placing one box in opposition with another and battling it all out...and then I sit back and realise that this part of peoples journeys...those battles...that trying to corrupt the view from the other side and validate the view from where you stand...but to know a mountain you have to see every view in every light and through every season.

Whether you are a person looking up, a person looking within, a person looking out....we are all stood on the same mountain

Lisa
18-01-2011, 02:27 PM
I do not believe in spiritual growth. I believe there is no "spirituality".

I do not believe there is any soul, or spirit, either.

I do not search anything. Yet my life is very interesting. I tend to be contented with anything that happens. And there is a sort of capacity, a tendency to accept...even when "****"! happens...

In my experience, I've met many people "on the spiritual path", and I have come to the conclusion that the worst kind of ego is the spiritual one.

My "capacity" to accept and enjoy the happening of life is nothing special, nothing that I can brag about, nothing that I have in any way deserved or attained. It just happens. I couldn't teach any technique about it.

I see many people unhappy. Some "on the spiritual path", others "common people". People trapped in themselves, as to say. People so much identified with their own thoughts, acts, feelings.

I don't know much about happiness. What is happiness, just en emotion passing by. But I know people just contented, enjoying life. No higher goal to reach. No big purpose. Nothing higher to attain.

Higher than what, then. Isn't this enough?

Dude! Look at this big smile! :smile: :smile: :smile:

de.spin
18-01-2011, 03:28 PM
Very interesting post de.spin, I was wondering if anyone would reply but so far it's gone dead.

Did you have a spiritual path at some point or seek within to get you where you are now?

Hi Shepherd

yes, at some point I was an Osho sannyasin.

Did that get me where I am now? Just like anything else.

There is no need to follow any spiritual path. There is nothing to get. Everything is already the case.

A spiritual path just nurtures the mind's ideas and desires that there might be something to get.

clovelly
18-01-2011, 03:32 PM
Wow, I didn’t realise a simple questions would create such a debate that drifted from the question.....lol Shepherd think we do need a new thread ‘Do we need the term spirituality?’ :wink:


I think Falling Star and Harley’s Mum and perhaps James were the only one’s that noticed the changes, but more on a universal point of view, not so directly. So I guess the shift of happy searchers and unhappy non-searchers is only happening around my immediate circle of people.
Perhaps I’m experiencing as God_Like suggests: “The deeper you go within will allow you to extend what Is realized by that same measure outwardly”


De.Spin Your perspective of **** happens and acceptance, is probably the best advice that can be given at times, otherwise the mind runs around in never-ending circles. But myself believing in cause and effect, Karma, it can be a good idea occasionally to question, otherwise peoples morals would go out the window?
But I’m quite confused about your beliefs. If you do not believe in anything or have any questions, or have been touched by something, how did you ever stumble, register and then partake in SF? :confused:
When you ask “Higher than what, then. Isn't this enough?” Definitely not enough, not when a person loves the non-physical process of discovery & experience and the more they practice the deeper and stronger it feels (That is the higher). They would feel like a caged animal.


Harley’s Mum, I have always loved the concept of ‘the human condition’. I remember hearing a story once that the angels bring these thoughts to us at once because the universe is ready for them to materialize. Thus goes go back to my original question........... and how I perceive the people around me.

Thank you everyone for your incites.

Love and light
clovelly :hug3:

BlueSky
18-01-2011, 03:33 PM
Hi Shepherd

yes, at some point I was an Osho sannyasin.

Did that get me where I am now? Just like anything else.

There is no need to follow any spiritual path. There is nothing to get. Everything is already the case.

A spiritual path just nurtures the mind's ideas and desires that there might be something to get.

With all due respect....somehow you GOT that there is nothing to get. :smile:
Call it a path or life or a spiritual path........but somehow you got from "A" to "B" and your life is better because of it.

Agree?

shepherd
18-01-2011, 03:36 PM
There is no need to follow any spiritual path. There is nothing to get. Everything is already the case.

A spiritual path just nurtures the mind's ideas and desires that there might be something to get.

I know what you mean about the spiritual path following as its been a process to let go of following anything. The temptation from the mind to give meaning and structure to experiences through beliefs is a challenge but it has been worth while exploring and letting go of believing anything to be true. Your post was a nice reminder long with another from Dins that spirituality is a concept, a bunch of ideas which we often try to make more solid and therefore true. It seems clear at times it's just a lot of metaphors which we can subscribe to or not, i have found power in metaphoric change work with myself and clients. Thanks for a great post.

Kapitan_Prien
18-01-2011, 03:40 PM
Clovelly: Has anyone else noticed the extreme changes in the lives of people they know?

Nope...same e. coli different day here.

clovelly
18-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Nope...same e. coli different day here.
:wink: Thanks Kaptain


Did that get me where I am now? Just like anything else.

There is no need to follow any spiritual path. There is nothing to get. Everything is already the case.

A spiritual path just nurtures the mind's ideas and desires that there might be something to get.
:rolleyes: I see this as a spiritual path.

de.spin
18-01-2011, 03:48 PM
It is a tough thing to respond to Shepherd. I mean what does it mean when someone says that they don't believe in spirituality?
IMO, it is one thing to just not know and another to not believe.
IMO, believing and not believing are the same thing.
I don't know de.spin but these are things that come to my mind when I read his post.
Care to elaborate some more on your post de.spin.............I just am curious as to exactly what you mean.
Thanks..James


Hi James

to be honest, I use the verb to believe just to be polite.

I say that I do not believe in spiritual growth, because I don't want to say that I see that there is nothing like spiritual growth. Who am I to declare that? Can I prove it? Of course not. This is only my experience.

Who can claim to know about spirituality? A therapist, a master, a prophet? I have worked many years in psychiatry, and I have lived many years in "spiritual" communes; don't ask me the difference!:D

BlueSky
18-01-2011, 03:52 PM
Hi James

to be honest, I use the verb to believe just to be polite.

I say that I do not believe in spiritual growth, because I don't want to say that I see that there is nothing like spiritual growth. Who am I to declare that? Can I prove it? Of course not. This is only my experience.

Who can claim to know about spirituality? A therapist, a master, a prophet? I have worked many years in psychiatry, and I have lived many years in "spiritual" communes; don't ask me the difference!:D

Fair enough....thanks for elaborating. :smile:

de.spin
18-01-2011, 03:54 PM
:wink: Thanks Kaptain


:rolleyes: I see this as a spiritual path.

ok. let's say that life itself is a spiritual path, for those who like these words, and there is no need to do anything but enjoying the show.
:redface: there is no choice anyway

shepherd
18-01-2011, 03:56 PM
I see this as a spiritual path.

maybe it's just life and the label your prefer is spiritual?

de.spin
18-01-2011, 03:58 PM
Great. And that's called being an athesist, or an agnostic. Or maybe even a nihilist. But it has nothing to do with spirituality. I could write a similar post regarding my view of religion. But what would that reveal, other than I'm not a religious person?

No I am not a religious person.

I would add I am not an atheist, nor an agnostic, nor even a nihilist.

If we were two friends drinking a glass (or two) of wine, I would confess you that I am not even a person.

:smile:

de.spin
18-01-2011, 04:04 PM
With all due respect....somehow you GOT that there is nothing to get. :smile:



Yes, and it was even very painful. But it's like to recognize that the sky is blue (not here in Holland...:smile: )

harley's mum
18-01-2011, 04:08 PM
hello all again... in regard to the many ways and means and thoughts expressed on SF humbly I offer the following thought that it is all to do with our own experiences and perspectives and to illustrate here is a story...
some of you may have read my lifesaving story on the divine intervention thread... well... IMO yes I grew up on the best beaches in the world and having travelled the world found it interesting how everywhere I went people had their own experience and perspective for example Waikiki beach to me was a joke tiny as no real surf just a ripple and the sand is imported BUT if you came from the flat lands of the middle of the u.s.a. and had never experienced the sea or a beach wow you would be blown away isn't it beautiful etc people from around the world come to surfers paradise beach and think wow isn't this fabulous so long and so wow... but for me it is the most treacherous strip of surf and one even an experienced body surfer such as myself would never never consider entering and every year tourists come and think wow and then they die... experience and perspective create each individual's version of reality... in vancouver I went crazy with boredom the long straight roads all in right angles and when we went across to vancouver island my mainland friends all freaked out omg I can't drive on these roads but for my I was in my elemerent I love twisty turny bendy windy reminded me of the northern beaches peninsula...

well that's all i wanted to add and it is what it is...:cool:

BlueSky
18-01-2011, 04:09 PM
Yes, and it was even very painful. But it's like to recognize that the sky is blue (not here in Holland...:smile: )

I agree totally and we are very much alike in our thoughts/understandings here. I kinda see the painful path that I found myself on and labeled spiritual was really some "need" I had to see life different than I did. Why.........I don't really know totally but the need to know why has left me as well as the need to change.
In the end, like you said, the need ended when I could see clear enough to notice the blue sky that was always there.
With that said................too many amazing, wonderful, unexplainable things happened along this path and even now that I am off the path, to not have a heathy respect and wonder and awe for this thing about life and even death that i do not/ cannot understand.
Thanks for sharing :smile:

de.spin
18-01-2011, 04:10 PM
But I’m quite confused about your beliefs. If you do not believe in anything or have any questions, or have been touched by something, how did you ever stumble, register and then partake in SF? :confused:

Clovelly, doesn't this prove that things just happen?:D

BlueSky
18-01-2011, 04:19 PM
Clovelly, doesn't this prove that things just happen?:D

I had a long drawn out emotional encounter that involved me saving the neighbors crying cat that was stuck 60 ft up our largest oak tree last week
I posted this on another thread if you are interested.
I mention it because it was intense and afterwards in the quiet, reflecting on all that happened, it was clear to me that life or whatever you want to call what is all around us..........didn't care or not care what happened to this kitty. This is how it seemed to me based on the particulars over a couple of days.
It did however provide me with the emptiness or bank canvas as I called it, to create the picture i wanted to paint of saving this poor kitty.
I kinda think things don't just happen but rather that there is this space that anything can happen and in that space, anything is possible.
Anyways, just thought I'd share that....:smile:

Kapitan_Prien
18-01-2011, 04:26 PM
You're Welcome Clovelly. :-)

I think if anyone's going through drastic changes...it's me...but other people...nope. At the same time though - I don't get out much nor am I around many people when I do get out...so my 'view' is but one small spot on the big planet. :D

DulcePoetica
18-01-2011, 04:27 PM
What a strange debate. People get so caught up in semantics.

I think everyone is making the exact same argument, but what one person calls spirituality, another calls psychology, and another calls looking within and another calls not looking at all.

I have experimented with all of these approaches. I've contemplated, participated in psycho-therapy, meditated and lolled around myself. All toward the aim of finding or creating balance in my life. I am a highly skilled do nothing-er when that is what the situation calls for.

To answer the original question, it is also my experience that people are becoming more aware of the areas in their life that are out of balance and are intuiting what to do to restore or create balance. But - it has also occurred to me that the reason I find myself surrounded by so many people "looking within" (that is what I call the process of determining which of the aforementioned methods is in order for a given predicament) is because I am doing it.

I have no particular interest in people who live without curiosity.

Ivy
18-01-2011, 04:32 PM
What a strange debate. People get so caught up in semantics.

I think everyone is making the exact same argument, but what one person calls spirituality, another calls psychology, and another calls looking within and another calls not looking at all.

I have experimented with all of these approaches. I've contemplated, participated in psycho-therapy, meditated and lolled around myself. All toward the aim of finding or creating balance in my life. I am a highly skilled do nothing-er when that is what the situation calls for.

To answer the original question, it is also my experience that people are becoming more aware of the areas in their life that are out of balance and are intuiting what to do to restore or create balance. But - it has also occurred to me that the reason I find myself surrounded by so many people "looking within" (that is what I call the process of determining which of the aforementioned methods is in order for a given predicament) is because I am doing it.

I have no particular interest in people who live without curiosity.

oh I like this :smile:

clovelly
18-01-2011, 04:43 PM
Thanks DulcePoetica, you expressed exactly what I was feeling but couldn't articulate.

shepherd
18-01-2011, 07:43 PM
To answer the original question, it is also my experience that people are becoming more aware of the areas in their life that are out of balance and are intuiting what to do to restore or create balance. But - it has also occurred to me that the reason I find myself surrounded by so many people "looking within" (that is what I call the process of determining which of the aforementioned methods is in order for a given predicament) is because I am doing it.

I have no particular interest in people who live without curiosity.

Good for you but it would be easy to be judgmental or try and influence exactly what people should be curious in. With that curiousity they are also pushed to label their journey as well as subscribe to the experiences and beliefs created on that journey from others who claim to have taken it. Yes it might well be arguing semantics to you or to some others its a discussion created by curiousity of this subject.

DulcePoetica
18-01-2011, 08:30 PM
I will say this: I like your sign-off question, Shepherd.

AndyCandy
22-01-2011, 02:41 AM
This was the first thread that I read here, so I shall post something concerning this topic.....
I think de.spin was on the right track, the spiritual journey begins with the looking within, to where we believe the answers are.... but the journey ends with one not even considering a need for enlightenment, realizing there was nothing to search for in the first place....