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Burntfruit
26-10-2015, 10:19 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

knightofalbion
26-10-2015, 10:44 AM
I'll give you an analogy. You're in town, you're coming out of a shop, you see a woman coming, so you hold the door open for her and smile. You're a gentleman.

If she smiles back and says 'thank you', she's a lady!
If she just brushes past without a word and ignores you ... She's no lady - but you are still a gentleman, and that's what matters.

Either way you aren't doing it for smiles or thanks. You're doing it because it's right, because that's 'you'.


Kindness is much the same really.

knightofalbion
26-10-2015, 10:54 AM
On the spiritual level, kindness is the practical expression of love.

So strive always to be kind, in deed, word and thought, as much as you are able.

RaysOfScarletDreams
26-10-2015, 10:54 AM
It's okay to say no to people, just because you turned someone away doesn't make you any less spiritual than the next guy.

sky
26-10-2015, 11:06 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?


You also have to be kind to yourself, being kind to others does not give them the right to take advantage of you.

Finding the middle path is a good way to start, you can ' love the tiger from a distance '

Jyotir
26-10-2015, 01:32 PM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

Hi Burntfruit,

No problem, just don't exclude yourself from the general premise!

Of course that may become difficult to assess, due to a lack of objectivity regarding self. In that case, what the spiritual orientation provides, is for the conscious surrender to the Divine, Who then becomes more available, and more responsive to these needs, no matter who or what they are represented by - including yourself.

~ J

Tanemon
26-10-2015, 03:18 PM
Burntfruit, I completely agree with what knightofalbion has said about showing kindness in the little things of everyday life. Not only in the sort of example he provided - I feel that kindness in general is the key to the positivity and health of a community or society. And it keeps the individual from sinking into bitterness.

On the other hand, yes, what you asked about is an important point. It's been taken up in various threads we've had on SF. Here's one of those threads:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48586

knightofalbion gave an example of kindness expressed in courtesy in a casual situation. I think where things get sticky is in situations like loaning money, giving someone a spare room in your home for a while, loaning your car - situations involving more personal investment, if we can call it that. Kind thoughts toward people and casual courtesies aren't where real issues tend to arise.

I'm not making a statement in favour of cynicism or living life in fear, just trying to move the conversation into the sphere that your OP might have related to.

Lorelyen
26-10-2015, 03:52 PM
No. It's perfectly possible to be kind as long as you don't let yourself be taken for granted. It's a way of being.
There may be times when you have to lay down rules or simply say no - when a kindness is expected or demanded of you when it would
inconvenience you or you can't rely on the person. That doesn't mean you aren't basically kind.

...

O
26-10-2015, 03:53 PM
No. It's perfectly possible to be kind as long as you don't let yourself be taken for granted. It becomes an attitude in the end.

Very true.

Astro
26-10-2015, 04:04 PM
I don't think that kindness is weakness: that to be kind means that one would be, for example, gullible as a result of being kind. It depends how wise you are I suppose.

lemex
26-10-2015, 04:12 PM
It's okay to say no to people, just because you turned someone away doesn't make you any less spiritual than the next guy.

I agree and a lesson for me, it's ok to say no, but hard to do. No doesn't mean you (someone) turn away imo. I don't say no in that way. I tend to go with what I feel within but it is always open.

Molearner
26-10-2015, 04:30 PM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

Burntfruit,

To be spiritually good we must be loving.....that is not quite the same as being kind. There is more of an implication of discernment in love. It helps enable us to discern what a person really needs as opposed to what they want. Needs and wants are 2 different things. To be brief, for example, sometimes the sympathy that we show others prevents them from learning valuable lessons. Certain trials in life are teaching and learning processes. Rather than saying..."I wish this had never happened to you" we should be thinking "I pray that you discover the lesson from this experience". Now how we express that thought can be a matter of kindness. That is not always easy.......so that is a learning process for us also. In effect, the trials of others are also trials(and opportunities) for us as well.

froebellian
26-10-2015, 05:25 PM
It also depends on what you consider is kind; is it kind to tell the truth to someone who needs to hear it, or is it kinder not to tell them so they won't be upset.

Karma does come into play, because you can't be kind all the time as we all have thoughts (that pass) about others. It's about intent. If you are kind because you think you ought to be, then you are not really being kind. You do it because you fell obliged to and not because you want to. There is a difference.

MIND POWER
26-10-2015, 07:42 PM
No. It's perfectly possible to be kind as long as you don't let yourself be taken for granted. It's a way of being.
There may be times when you have to lay down rules or simply say no - when a kindness is expected or demanded of you when it would
inconvenience you or you can't rely on the person. That doesn't mean you aren't basically kind.

...

Sometimes sticking up for yourself, and being aggressive towards others is being kind to YOURSELF. Sometimes people think that to be (KIND) you need to be nice to everybody. If you are kind and give far too many people the benefit of the doubt when they disrespect you or do something hurtful towards you..? ultimately you are now being unkind to yourself. And all this does is enforce/empower the suffering situation!

But obviously sometimes sticking up for yourself may be hard for some people, due to fear (Which we all deal with). Or in this twisted world, sometimes i believe that some people are attracted to being the victim sometimes. People who keep finding themselves in the same situation or relationship for example, maybe need to look at themselves first.

So yes! you can be KIND all the time! but you must remember that it goes both ways, sometimes you are being KIND to others! and sometimes you are being KIND to yourself! when you maybe might seem unkind to others.

Burntfruit
28-10-2015, 03:45 AM
Thank-you for your responses. You were all displaying kindness and sincerity by replying and offering informative responses.

I think we all play roles in life, and in community settings.

I think in safe communities, kindness is king.

I am wondering about spiritual development - I am a general newbie in this area.

ocean breeze
28-10-2015, 04:54 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.


Why must you be anything? I'm not kind but i don't go out of my way to be rude either, does this make me a spiritually bad person? Though i have been called rude when i refuse to follow people's idea of mannerism and etiquette. hmmm.....


But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

Simple really. You can be kind yet assertive.

Rah nam
28-10-2015, 05:35 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

I don't agree that you need to be kind, or nice.
Even so most who start out on a spiritual journey will think so and act it out.
To me, those who try to be nice and kind all the time, want to be liked, and are afraid of rejections.
It is difficult to tell if someone helps for selfless reasons or try to get attention in return. But then, it is just part of the journey.

Priscilla
28-10-2015, 06:25 AM
Sometimes the kindest thing you can do for a person is to tell them no or to not give them what they think they need. We all have lessons to learn in this life. Just make sure you are doing it from your heart.

Gem
28-10-2015, 06:48 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

Yea, we usually have a sense of kindness and an inherent wish for everyone's happiness. Many people take advantage as their primary interest is in what they can get for themselves, so acts of kindness can be wasteful, but the sense of kindness still resides and no ill-will is ever wished. It is both simple an complicated, because the sense of kindness is inherent and simply is, but navigating the relationships within which kindness is expressed or enacted is pretty complicated.

God-Like
28-10-2015, 09:43 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

What I have found is that kindness is mistaken for weakness but it is a strength .

Those that take advantage can be seen as being the strong one, but it is their weakness .

x daz x

Greenslade
28-10-2015, 10:02 AM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?
Perhaps if we are to be a "Spiritually good person" we need to look beyond the 'must be'. What is being kind to a person, letting them walk all over you and perhaps the next person they meet? Is that Spiritually good for you, them or the next someone they take advantage of? There's no reason why you can't be kind and yet not allow them to take advantage, even if that means being assertive but not aggressive. Perhaps that's where the kindness lies, not in the allowing them to take advantage but in a little bit of enlightenment.

blackraven
28-10-2015, 12:11 PM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

Burnfruit - I think it's all in the way one delivers his or her message to others as to whether or not one is being "good" or "kind". Being a doormat doesn't have to enter the equation of one gently speaks their mind with conviction while not hurting or putting down another.

I had a friend that lived on the other side of town from me and she volunteered me to one of her neighbors to canvas my neighborhood and go door to door handing out flyers about protecting wetlands. I loved the cause, but being a very unsocial and private person, I wasn't interested in canvasing my neighborhood. I was taken back that my friend would volunteer me without consulting me first.

I called her up and said, "Do you respect me?" When she answered "yes" I then asked that if she respected me, why would she volunteer me to do something without my consent. I wasn't trying to get an apology, although an apology followed, but just wanted to stand my ground.

Sometimes doing it with the people closest to us is the hardest, but people closest to one would have a better understanding than a stranger. Speaking your mind doesn't mean a person isn't being kind, a good person or even spiritual in my opinion. If one isn't real with him or herself first, one can't be real with others. Authenticity IMO runs parallel with being spiritual.

lemex
28-10-2015, 02:32 PM
Yea, we usually have a sense of kindness and an inherent wish for everyone's happiness. Many people take advantage as their primary interest is in what they can get for themselves, so acts of kindness can be wasteful, but the sense of kindness still resides and no ill-will is ever wished. It is both simple an complicated, because the sense of kindness is inherent and simply is, but navigating the relationships within which kindness is expressed or enacted is pretty complicated.

I find I don't agree saying an act can be wasteful, they may serve as lesson we don't see, others may. Cause and effect may play out. Yes it is complicated to us, then to do we stop acts of kindness. What if an act of kindness leads to growth of kindness later. Kindness to me in many instances are like a seed as many spiritual things are and may require patience. Many other considerations as to why things happen. Just don't over do it is what I'm hearing said :smile: I think of kindness in my own life and I imagine many lives are not empty of it either.

Added: We may be thinking in terms of the stranger. What if a loved one was given kindness would you then hold the same thought about it. This would be like saying sometimes it's ok.

lemex
28-10-2015, 04:49 PM
Perhaps if we are to be a "Spiritually good person" we need to look beyond the 'must be'. What is being kind to a person, letting them walk all over you and perhaps the next person they meet? Is that Spiritually good for you, them or the next someone they take advantage of? There's no reason why you can't be kind and yet not allow them to take advantage, even if that means being assertive but not aggressive. Perhaps that's where the kindness lies, not in the allowing them to take advantage but in a little bit of enlightenment.

:smile: Very helpful to me. Thanks

knightofalbion
28-10-2015, 04:54 PM
No kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted
- Aesop

Serrao
28-10-2015, 05:04 PM
The harsh people own half of the world.
The kindest people live in heavenly realms.

sky
28-10-2015, 05:06 PM
Kindness begets kindness evermore.

Rokon
28-10-2015, 05:16 PM
So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?

It would be great if everyone could be kind all the time. But I'd like to suggest that by "acting kind" when you don't feel kind creates a gap in truth. It is analogous with "fake heart" and is actually dishonoring feelings and creating an energetic distortion.

Marie
30-10-2015, 07:06 AM
You must wisely judge each action, thought, words and deeds that are against the laws of balance. But not judge falsely. Love others like you would like. Not allowing any evil in your space which goes hand in hand with standing up for yourself. So, kind and love within boundaries. Shortly said balance.

Gem
30-10-2015, 07:31 AM
I find I don't agree saying an act can be wasteful, they may serve as lesson we don't see, others may. Cause and effect may play out. Yes it is complicated to us, then to do we stop acts of kindness. What if an act of kindness leads to growth of kindness later. Kindness to me in many instances are like a seed as many spiritual things are and may require patience. Many other considerations as to why things happen. Just don't over do it is what I'm hearing said :smile: I think of kindness in my own life and I imagine many lives are not empty of it either.

Added: We may be thinking in terms of the stranger. What if a loved one was given kindness would you then hold the same thought about it. This would be like saying sometimes it's ok.

I think you have to careful about what people want. The simple things like respect and consideration for others are the most important. In the context of the 'door-mat' you can waste kindness because people don't want it - they want what they can get for themselves, they want the advantage and they want the dominant position. In terms of what they want, the only kindness is to be submissive and they will take all they can get, so we needn't be pretentious about stopping acts of kindness.

People will then say stopping kindness, saying no, is then the act of kindness, but that has nothing to do with what the other person wants at all, and everything to do with self preservation.

Tullyquinn11
30-10-2015, 07:43 AM
,,,,,.......

Greenslade
30-10-2015, 12:40 PM
:smile: Very helpful to me. ThanksYou're very welcome. Sometimes it comes down to plain old common sense - pretty much most of the time. Often it helps to leave what the Spirituality should be behind in order to see what the Spirituality is, and we're here for the lessons of others as much as for our own.

Sarian
30-10-2015, 01:19 PM
Don't confuse simple kindness with people purposely taking advantage of you. Ex. I was behind an elderly woman who realized she had no money to pay for what she had. Baking supplies. She was terribly embarrassed and I told the cashier that I would pay for her groceries. She looked at me like I was crazy (the cashier) I've done these types of things before. On the other hand, I once thought it was something I had to do when I used to attend a church to help out the pastor with things...they wanted more and more from me. I never felt it was the right thing to do to help them, more like coerced or guilted...I put a stop to it and was chastised for it and I knew moreso I was RIGHT to stop and they were simply trying to take advantage of people. Another member would frequently ask for me and others to pay her bills. She felt it was owed to her because of her life woes. I would not help. Does that make me awful? People like that are users and expect the world owes them.

Miss Hepburn
30-10-2015, 01:21 PM
So many wise posts! So rather than repeat...let's look at it differently.

Where does kindness come from?
Knowledge. Wisdom. Connection with the Truth.
Kindness is then simply a result or natural after effect of being
in your center or heart or in peace.

When we are in our 'center' or connection with our 'Source', God,
Higher Self, so many names, ha, we are never confused as to
how to act...in an interview, a political debate, with our partner,
a pesky neighbor, our teenager, any stranger.

Clarity is then our friend and part of us.
Boundaries are then an easy part of life.

So it isn't so much 'we must be kind'....really, it is we must be connected to the heart, period.
Then, there is always freedom from confusion. :hug3:

Ah, the freedom!

Haha, look, Sarian, we were typing at the same time, was just thinking of you and
what your weather must be like.

Sarian
30-10-2015, 01:33 PM
Hi Miss Hepburn, the weather's been crazy and a HUGE branch from one of my biggest maple trees came crashing down. Firewood for next year!

I like your post.

I would love to be a philanthropist and just give anonymously. It just feels right when you do kind things, whether it be just opening a door, or helping another in need, or a smile. Honestly, often a smile is the simplest of act of kindness that one can do and have a profound impact on another.

knightofalbion
30-10-2015, 01:50 PM
So many wise posts! So rather than repeat...let's look at it differently.

Where does kindness come from?
Knowledge. Wisdom. Connection with the Truth.
Kindness is then simply a result or natural after effect of being
in your center or heart or in peace.

When we are in our 'center' or connection with our 'Source', God,
Higher Self, so many names, ha, we are never confused as to
how to act...in an interview, a political debate, with our partner,
a pesky neighbor, our teenager, any stranger.

Clarity is then our friend and part of us.
Boundaries are then an easy part of life.

So it isn't so much 'we must be kind'....really, it is we must be connected to the heart, period.
Then, there is always freedom from confusion. :hug3:

Ah, the freedom!

Haha, look, Sarian, we were typing at the same time, was just thinking of you and
what your weather must be like.

The magic words "We are never confused as to how to act" (Shades of "The man of wisdom is never in two minds") An expression of truth, in our hearts, or heart of hearts, we know what is the right thing to do. And purity of heart encourages us to do that right thing.

Kindness springs forth from the heart and is a physical expression of Love.

A very insightful post, dear Miss H.

Miss Hepburn
30-10-2015, 02:06 PM
A very insightful post, dear Miss H.
Well, I was forced to go deeper since everyone already said
what I probably would have!!!! :biggrin:

:wink:

yeshee camar
08-11-2015, 02:22 PM
your kind(ness) is like a young,
like fruit of spiritual,
like a grip,
like a i know what i'm doing and a that my cause is so in to the wow of the days.

kind(ness) also pierce within, it also eliminates wishy washy'd. yet, be mindful of you and percieve thurouw a combination of an kind(ness) that will let you free and what will let you free be the sum of quality 'pushing on' for that joy and that merry and that plus sign power of kindness even with upset persons, to knock down the roller blast of illys and above our environment. all we got to do be have the rely'd guts to open up and project 'like strongs.'

what's sure, keep your sure, keep your kind(ness).

knightofalbion
08-11-2015, 02:53 PM
your kind(ness) is like a young,
like fruit of spiritual,
like a grip,
like a i know what i'm doing and a that my cause is so in to the wow of the days.

kind(ness) also pierce within, it also eliminates wishy washy'd. yet, be mindful of you and percieve thurouw a combination of an kind(ness) that will let you free and what will let you free be the sum of quality 'pushing on' for that joy and that merry and that plus sign power of kindness even with upset persons, to knock down the roller coaster of illys and above our environment. all we got to do be have the rely'd guts to open up and project 'like strongs.'

what's sure, keep your sure, keep your kind(ness).

Bless you!

Yes, keep on being kind!

yeshee camar
08-11-2015, 03:00 PM
you keep sure, knight of alb,
a odore sure,
its the prisy can handle
'a yes you can a yes you are.'

MIND POWER
08-11-2015, 03:41 PM
Don't confuse simple kindness with people purposely taking advantage of you. Ex. I was behind an elderly woman who realized she had no money to pay for what she had. Baking supplies. She was terribly embarrassed and I told the cashier that I would pay for her groceries. She looked at me like I was crazy (the cashier) I've done these types of things before. On the other hand, I once thought it was something I had to do when I used to attend a church to help out the pastor with things...they wanted more and more from me. I never felt it was the right thing to do to help them, more like coerced or guilted...I put a stop to it and was chastised for it and I knew moreso I was RIGHT to stop and they were simply trying to take advantage of people. Another member would frequently ask for me and others to pay her bills. She felt it was owed to her because of her life woes. I would not help. Does that make me awful? People like that are users and expect the world owes them.

Not this does not make you awful.

Some people whether it be kinetically or emotionally just take and leech! 24/7. And that's how they get by in society and their life. Some people beg for attention, and drag everybody into their life's issues! to the untrained eye they look helpless, and they do get loads of attention. But sometimes its all planed and calculated, and its takes your intuition and emotionally intelligence to detect these characters.

(Sometimes its the quietest of people and the most secretive of people that really need our help! and our attentiveness! Not the drama queens! those people that only ask for help with their eye's or silent emotions!).

keokutah
08-11-2015, 06:43 PM
Okay.

So to be a spiritually good person, we must be kind.

But in reality it is harder because people would just take advantage of you all the time.

It is more complicated than that isn't it?


Choosing to be a good person, choosing to have good morals and values, following Good Samaritan principles and doing random acts of kindness and being loving and compassionate to others does not make you a doormat.

Being submissive and allowing people to harm you is what makes you a doormat. You don't have to be submissive to be kind.
You don't have to be a jerk while standing up for yourself either.

It all comes down to how you choose to react to mean people.