View Full Version : Boundless Self and conditioned mind
Timeless
23-10-2015, 03:49 AM
Let me start this off by saying, so many of us get attached to an identity that is of nothing more than struggle. Alan Watts said it best when he said "When you’re ready to wake up, you’re going to wake up, and if you’re not ready you’re going to stay pretending that you’re just a ‘poor little me.’"
The self is boundless, timeless, universal. When you discover the root of yourself, you can begin to eliminate things that are unoriginal to you. You can become one.
naturesflow
23-10-2015, 04:55 AM
In the boundless, timeless, universal nature of all things, the ready to wake up is only self knowing itself as itself not really about others...Not remembering/not ready is part of the process, unique to each person, not always just about pretending just *poor little me*...much comes into life waking up and not waking up and just dealing with what you are and have to deal with..
I don't forget that this world is made up of much more than just waking up.
dryad
23-10-2015, 10:43 AM
It's not all or nothing. There is still a process. The soul creates the mind/body self because it is not able to operate in physical reality. And the mind is not able to fully perceive the larger reality of the soul so it's a series of glimpses where each experiences a little more of the others reality and the differences between them get smaller and smaller. It doesn't matter whether you go out there or you bring your soul down here. Each time will be different as more is able to be merged. And I think it's a lot easier if you get your mind to work for you rather than against you.
Somehow, under the impression this needs to be somehow different, an imaginary 'enlightened you' is compared to an imaginary 'current you'. How can this be? Can there be a process that leads to here?
Lorelyen
23-10-2015, 11:48 AM
The self is boundless, timeless, universal. When you discover the root of yourself, you can begin to eliminate things that are unoriginal to you. You can become one.
Getting to your deepest Mysteries is difficult for most people. There are the gifted but for most it's hard work and determined honesty. Unfortunately "to become one" by which I understand you mean to become the whole (pronoun) you have to deal with your shadow side which too often doesn't want you to drag it out into the light and will put up a fight.
...
Lorelyen
23-10-2015, 12:03 PM
I don't forget that this world is made up of much more than just waking up.
Quite - brewing a cuppa for a start....utterly vital to spiritual enlightenment.
:smile:
Jyotir
23-10-2015, 01:26 PM
Hi naturesflow,
... this world is made up of much more than just waking up.
Or...from another p.o.v., it could be said that 'this world' is doing nothing but waking up.
~ J
dryad
23-10-2015, 02:20 PM
All growth is a process. If it happens within time it's a process. Perhaps you mistake non physical for imaginary and imaginary for nonexistent. Just because the mind is a small part of the whole it doesn't mean it's not real. Getting past the mind is just shifting perspectives so that a different part becomes dominant. Instead of fighting the mind use it to push off in the direction you need to go.
dryad
23-10-2015, 02:29 PM
Getting to your deepest Mysteries is difficult for most people. There are the gifted but for most it's hard work and determined honesty. Unfortunately "to become one" by which I understand you mean to become the whole (pronoun) you have to deal with your shadow side which too often doesn't want you to drag it out into the light and will put up a fight.
...
Shadow sides don't belong in the light. If you want to understand it try making friends with it in the dark. Then instead of fighting you it will help you.
CrystalSong
23-10-2015, 03:20 PM
Shadow sides don't belong in the light. If you want to understand it try making friends with it in the dark. Then instead of fighting you it will help you.
Yep, this is what I got also. We had to 'strike a friendly deal' to co-exist in the same body and in appreciation of each others aspects.
Everyone gets a seat at the table. ;)
Our shadow sides anchor us uniquely in the concept and experience of being a human. That has a lot of value in terms of getting to play in this particular playground.
lemex
23-10-2015, 04:07 PM
Yep, this is what I got also. We had to 'strike a friendly deal' to co-exist in the same body and in appreciation of each others aspects.
Everyone gets a seat at the table. ;)
Our shadow sides anchor us uniquely in the concept and experience of being a human. That has a lot of value in terms of getting to play in this particular playground.
Then do you find, the shadow side can be calm and at peace to.
Timeless
23-10-2015, 07:26 PM
Somehow, under the impression this needs to be somehow different, an imaginary 'enlightened you' is compared to an imaginary 'current you'. How can this be? Can there be a process that leads to here?
The conditioned you, or the one that you are constantly imagining is different from what you can be if you stop imagining.
naturesflow
23-10-2015, 10:14 PM
[QUOTE=Jyotir][COLOR="Navy"]Hi naturesflow,
Or...from another p.o.v., it could be said that 'this world' is doing [I]nothing but waking up.
Possibilities of what the world is being and doing is endless really..
From another p.o.v., it could be said that *this world* is doing something but not waking up, but still doing something, nothing and everything or anything really? We apply our own understanding as we know it to be to the world as we think the world is being and doing of itself.
For those, who believe the world is waking up, perhaps those who hold this belief, are actually the ones waking up to understand that life can be about "just being" in the world and not needing to make it be anything other than life being life as it is in the fullness of its nature and the many experiences it presents of itself, that unfolds naturally of itself?
As humans, we naturally like to create ideas around the nature of life in the way we perceive it is moving. Yet isn't life just being itself as it is? So any number of views of what life is doing is valid of course as one whole host living this life I would imagine. Waking up is just one idea and one path that we as humans create as being what this life is meant to be doing or not doing .
The conditioned you, or the one that you are constantly imagining is different from what you can be if you stop imagining.
Basically. The process by which the imaginary is perpetuated is the main question.
Lorelyen
24-10-2015, 07:30 AM
Shadow sides don't belong in the light. If you want to understand it try making friends with it in the dark. Then instead of fighting you it will help you.
It's just a question of definition and how to try to explain the inexplicable to people here.
In this particular context I meant that you discover the root to a problem, something that doesn't sit well with your development toward Selfhood, so you find some way to investigate, then objectify it, rationalise it and hopefully eliminate its radical nature. In doing so you have exerted control over whatever it was. Depending on how you explore that, how it manifests on the "inner world" whatever shade between white and black it is, the exploration, its manifestation and treatment can be discomforting for some. But when you have it under your control, to me you have brought it into the light. It is no longer an unknown.
I hoped there wouldn't be the need for a litigation-quality brief on it here, so may I leave it at that?
Ta.
dryad
24-10-2015, 08:44 AM
It's just a question of definition and how to try to explain the inexplicable to people here.
In this particular context I meant that you discover the root to a problem, something that doesn't sit well with your development toward Selfhood, so you find some way to investigate, then objectify it, rationalise it and hopefully eliminate its radical nature. In doing so you have exerted control over whatever it was. Depending on how you explore that, how it manifests on the "inner world" whatever shade between white and black it is, the exploration, its manifestation and treatment can be discomforting for some. But when you have it under your control, to me you have brought it into the light. It is no longer an unknown.
I hoped there wouldn't be the need for a litigation-quality brief on it here, so may I leave it at that?
Ta.
Ok I see what you mean. I know several shadow selves as specific entities so I don't use the term as a general concept like that and i have been exploring dark places so they don't equate to unknown to me anymore. Sorry for the mix up. Terminology is always troublesome around here.
Mr Interesting
24-10-2015, 07:34 PM
Let me start this off by saying, so many of us get attached to an identity that is of nothing more than struggle. Alan Watts said it best when he said "When you’re ready to wake up, you’re going to wake up, and if you’re not ready you’re going to stay pretending that you’re just a ‘poor little me.’"
The self is boundless, timeless, universal. When you discover the root of yourself, you can begin to eliminate things that are unoriginal to you. You can become one.
I'm sorry Timeless but I get a little bit bored when I see your posts and do that kind of sigh thing which can even tend towards drooping. They are like modern signposts which tell us in no uncertain terms that which is already blatantly obvious.
Like 'Keep off the Grass' in big bold letters right where there's brand new soil with little tiny shoots of new grass coming forth... whereas the sign might actually have, in some nice creative script ' I wonder why this is here... this sign?'
Because adults already know that new grass is growing and children don't bother so why the sign?
Then what happens is lotsa other signs go up and then the new grass can't even feel the sun... it all becomes somewhat contradictory to the original intent.
Like I said... sorry.
Timeless
25-10-2015, 01:17 AM
I'm sorry Timeless but I get a little bit bored when I see your posts and do that kind of sigh thing which can even tend towards drooping. They are like modern signposts which tell us in no uncertain terms that which is already blatantly obvious.
Like 'Keep off the Grass' in big bold letters right where there's brand new soil with little tiny shoots of new grass coming forth... whereas the sign might actually have, in some nice creative script ' I wonder why this is here... this sign?'
Because adults already know that new grass is growing and children don't bother so why the sign?
Then what happens is lotsa other signs go up and then the new grass can't even feel the sun... it all becomes somewhat contradictory to the original intent.
Like I said... sorry.
I know what you mean, man. Everything I write, however, is of my personal inquiry. The way I say some stuff on here may be interpreted in a different way by many. I want to start using a different approach to describing things of this sort. Like I said, its just my personal inquiry and then how I explain it based on what I see.
I can see why you're bored with the words I choose to use. But that doesn't mean that I'm not authentic. You have to find creative ways to convey some things to people. That's how things sell. So, to sum things up, my authenticity was there...I just need to work on creativity.
And most things I talk about on here don't really matter or have any significance. I've come to realize that "nothing needs to be explained." It's just a part of me that has the urge to sound smart and what not ;) Honestly, I look back on most of the things I write and think to myself, "Why did I say that?"
naturesflow
25-10-2015, 01:36 AM
I know what you mean, man. Everything I write, however, is of my personal inquiry. The way I say some stuff on here may be interpreted in a different way by many. I want to start using a different approach to describing things of this sort. Like I said, its just my personal inquiry and then how I explain it based on what I see.
I can see why you're bored with the words I choose to use. But that doesn't mean that I'm not authentic. You have to find creative ways to convey some things to people. That's how things sell. So, to sum things up, my authenticity was there...I just need to work on creativity.
And most things I talk about on here don't really matter or have any significance. I've come to realize that "nothing needs to be explained." It's just a part of me that has the urge to sound smart and what not ;) Honestly, I look back on most of the things I write and think to myself, "Why did I say that?"
Well why don't you speak like you are speaking here, as you post these intial posts?
Timeless
25-10-2015, 01:45 AM
Well why don't you speak like you are speaking here, as you post these intial posts?
I don't know. It doesn't really matter much, anyways. Don't listen to what I say.
Questions are readily available at your disposal so have at it:)
I'm not trying to influence, just connect.
naturesflow
25-10-2015, 02:01 AM
I don't know. It doesn't really matter much, anyways. Don't listen to what I say.
Questions are readily available at your disposal so have at it:)
I'm not trying to influence, just connect.
I listen.
I don't see your influencing intentionally..I see you are making connections.. I just read in your last post you felt maybe you needed to get more creative.
I just thought when I read your last post, that I see you more clearly as a person you are plus your intial OP as one source. I guess I was saying merge them both and you have a more expanded creation going on to share.
What your sharing is valid. I can see that.
Mr Interesting
25-10-2015, 07:33 PM
Let me start this off by saying, so many of us get attached to an identity that is of nothing more than struggle. Alan Watts said it best when he said "When you’re ready to wake up, you’re going to wake up, and if you’re not ready you’re going to stay pretending that you’re just a ‘poor little me.’"
The self is boundless, timeless, universal. When you discover the root of yourself, you can begin to eliminate things that are unoriginal to you. You can become one.
It's kinda similar to the old Christianity thing where the total focus is on God and the Christ which can't help but set up a paradigm where that which is attainable, Godhead, is put so far ahead of what people are and the life that they find themselves within that it stands to reason that a form of worship, as better than, must result.
"ready to wake up", "discover the root of yourself" etc, is essentially the same thing whereby attainment is beyond what is actually available.
So just before I was here I went out to pee down the back and one of the cats with whom I share this space was across the other side and she/he (I'm not sure actually and care little anyways) deftly jumped from where he was, then walked precariously along a length of big chunky wood, bounded over another chunk of actual log... then meandered over the plastic cover from the side of a truck (keeping more wood dry) then sat, looked at me and gave one of her plaintive meows. And I said 'Indeed Puss, for I saw the moves you made and this exclamation at the end will not have me defining you by what I see as speech, this end product that isn't an end product"
So like the cat Alan Watts and enlightenment has an end, a place to get to, even whilst we might spend years arguing that once you are there you realise you always were... and round and round it goes.
But like my very intelligent and eternally wise cat while we might focus on the end it seems a far more graceful pursuit to have seen the agilities that got us there.
What I myself am interested in is not how close I might be to the big fire, all that lovely and sparkling warmth, but how did the original spark come to be? What inclination preceded the collection of dried mosses and twigs and possibly the feelings incurred as others said 'but the sun is shining and we are warm, why are you expending effort on making a fire?'
Oh, and while the whole servant/master thing is a bit silly the angle taken in the Police song is quite an interesting take on the role of humility... with' of course, built defying itself of being seen as relevant.
no1wakesup
26-10-2015, 01:46 AM
The self which is boundless has no self and the mind which is conditioned assumes a self in everything.
Awareness is the bridge between both. Within a conditioned mind, awareness has been filled with content. In the boundless state, content is nowhere to be found.
Yet we tend to approach a boundless state by means exclusive and proprietary of a conditioned mind. So, it is limitation trying to find that which is unlimited, conceptuality trying to find the non conceptual, duality trying to find non duality, a separate self trying to find no self and time trying to find the timeless.
When the mind does this, it interprets a minimalist idea or concept which can then only threaten that which is fundamentally anchored in its own continuance.
Within a boundless state, awareness is there not as a position or identity but simply to carry out the the perpetual unfolding of pure consciousness (the groundless ground of beingness)
After a baby is born, it is fully awake (conscious form), at some point this consciousness contracts and becomes awareness (within a frame work of me and other as it unfolds within a child). This awareness (subjective awareness) begins to fill with conditioning and unconsciousness (content awareness) is there...the dream begins.
Even in momentary awareness or the gap, awareness is still looking for a target. A relational tangibility, anything which confirms the primordial state (formed earlier on before linear thinking and identity formed) which will complete a relationship between observer and observed, perceiver and perceived,..etc.
It is at the precipice of that deeper relationship, that fundamental duality (within awareness), which dismantles once that same awareness recognizes itself as the authentic expression, void of conditioning.
Many love to believe (and quite comfortably I might add) that liberation is gradual and a requires great effort and commitment. It is never gradual because it never has to do with time or the you which thinks it is becoming something more spiritual or greater. It is sudden and abrupt. You can be on the "spiritual path" for 50 yrs, have one insight and fully realized, recognize that the path was part of the story the whole time. Or you can be a murderer, know nothing of spiritually, oneness and so on, and be liberated in a flash of tightening.
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