The Spiritual Path

[bartholomew]

Far too often in our searching we will seek a desired result directly, at the beginning of our quest, prematurely. What makes this a difficult method is that it constitutes using desire to achieve things which are contrary to desire. So often we end up going round in circles getting frustrated and wondering if any of this is real or even an interesting dream...

I'll try to make this short and to the point. What I will say is based on my own experiences and also from many, many years of listening to others. I ask those who may be offended by what I say to pardon me in advance.

Forget about chakras. Forget about kundalini. Don't fret over knowing your guide. The reason I say these things is not because there is nothing to be gained but because of what I claim in my first paragraph above. How much sense does it make to use emotional energies to discover the high realms? This sort of thing has been part of the human spiritual behavioural package for thousands of years. Yet who around us has gained anything? There's a better way.

If the goal is to know your guide. If you want to settle and adjust your chakras and if the final act of raising the dragon (kundalini) is what you strive for then go the the level of spirit wherein positive control is easily possible. This is the purpose and reason for the quiet meditation of the Buddha. It is an exercise in pure mind, not low desire based mind but the high mind of our souls. This is where our guides are.

True meditation allows the student to raise him/her self above the Earth plane and all that is in it. Consider this. Our chakras are ethereal constructs. Their business is to interconnect and provide energy channels to and from the various lower spiritual realms when they are below the solar plexus and to the higher when they are above. When any part of the body is active the corresponding chakra will be too. Others may be quiet and inactive. The idea of a chakra being blocked originates in the fact that as they, as a unit of 7 major and 42 minor each interact with a different point on the body. It is interesting here to note that this is the reason acupuncture works. The therapist directly interacts with the body's energy grid which is only the lower correspondence to the higher. It is the wheels of ethereal energy which provoke the body through electricity. Chakras are not commonly blocked although we may think otherwise. Most often this belief is based on a wrong diagnosis by the worker. What do I mean? Well let's go back to the first paragraph again and be reminded about how desire and it's brother expectations plays a part. It has been my experience that a chakra only is negatively affected when the body is in extreme distress. If this is the case do we manipulate the chakra or do we heal the person and rid her/him of the irritant?

The single best method for the student to advance is by first learning and practicing a true form of meditation; one which does not involve chakras or kundalini or any other such thing. Where do we live? Is there a buddhist monastery nearby? Go there. Sit quietly and find that the entire world no longer troubles you. What is here? Just peace. Nothing else. Finally we find the beginning of a path which will never mislead. The atmosphere of the temple is quiet, generous in it's safety, completely without danger but it is still. It seems to be not moving. Why is this? Because the world and it's worries is outside. Those energies cannot enter and this is no accident. It is a force created by the use of high mind by those who live and work in this holy place.

So often we hear. "I have a blocked chakra". It is possible to use our hands to grab a chakra of another and move it back to where is supposed to be thus removing the perceived blockage (which is really a mislocation) I have done this. But is there wisdom in this? What is learned? How does any of this result in even a small amount of spiritual growth for the person?

Back to high meditation. The single purpose of learning to meditate properly is nothing to do with any below the solar plexus energies but with the mind. The advanced student is so not because she/he spent years meditating on the lower body centers but because he/she went higher in the beginning. This is what a Buddhist monk and nun learn as disciples. Their success is the reason that we find such comfort and solace in a temple. Learn what they know and carry with you wherever you go the strength which answers all questions.

Our souls, our guides are fellow souls who are a bit more advanced than we are, reside on the high mental plane. These are the energies present in a Buddhist temple. We can spend decades fretting over chakras and kundalini and other things or we can learn the high meditation in the beginning. If the goal is to acquire wisdom. Remember that when we leave this Earth we return not to "spirit" but to the mental plane of our souls. Here there are no physical, ethereal or astral fires to pester us. Wouldn't it be smart to live now as though we were already there? We can leave these lower energies behind right now and live as though heaven really is on Earth.

At the beginning of this post I alluded to the student in distress over such things as blocked chakras. For a practitioner to make needed adjustments manually will never be effective for very long because the subject has not changed. There are many who suggest that a certain "process" can heal. They are beguiled. They mean well but they themselves are not advanced enough to understand what they really are doing. The student will find that after they learn the proper high mental techniques of meditation he/she will no longer suffer. Their bodies have become quiet and serene.

The above is meant in all sincerity. If we're going to be spiritual lets be smart and efficient about it. Most of common spiritual practice involves the astral plane. Since we all live on that plane in the first place why waste time going there in spiritual practice? Those who have learned the high art of meditation find that they develop strong connections to their own souls, the mental plane and above, and never are concerned about their guides because they, themselves, have created a permanent channel, a permanent communion, with them.

Last comment. Kundalini will never be raised by the person who desires it. The very act of wanting is counter to what is required. He or she who has achieved is never bothered by maladjusted chakras. When the petals of the crown are opened wide the body is silent. Now the kundalini raises in the natural way. Once this occurs the test is passed. The man/woman is no longer troubled. He/she has learned.

[Sevenofthrees]

A nice post!

[God-Like]

I agree with Sevenofthrees tis a good well thought out post .

What I would say is that some can only manage baby steps and working on chakras and such likes are 'perhaps' the first rung of the ladder for them so to speak .

I would say whatever captures one's interest is mean't to be whether it is chanting Ging Gang Goolie or dancing like a wild child lols .

As always it best to get to the heart of self or the heart of the matter but with baby steps or pigeon steps that is all one may feel comfortable with at first .

Halfway up the ladder one might not require the chakra work or the hand clapping anymore and that is how it should be .

Maybe some don't know that when one goes for the jugular in respect of working / healing / knowing self in ways that is described regarding meditation in the O.P then in doing so one automatically works on all of their energy centres etc ..

But the process wherever one is of it, is exactly right for them at the time .


x daz x

[Gem]

Nice post, Bartholomew. Very articulately expressed!

[knightofalbion]

There is wisdom! A fine post, dear Bartholomew.

The door is there and the key is in your hand ...

[Deepsoul]

Really feeling that post Bartholomew ,I have been through alot of drama and now coming out the other side is great, I have great connection with my base chakra and Mother Earth and her energies and this is very grounding for me, My third eye is functioning highly And has lots of little lights beside it also ,and my crown has several sections to it too,not only the very top but the fontanelle and back of head, Jesus is my one and only guide to my knowledge ,I am just starting to connect and feel my heart chakra, Lovely and the others will come as my situation improves or as I improve my situation, God bless .

I also like chanting ,visulisations,worship and affirmations to empower them.

[Deepsoul]

And accupressure is amazing for moving energy around the body too ,If you put one finger on your third eye and one on your heart chakra and just breath they will connect and calm will ensue......

[yeshee camar]

i felt for you on that.

passing on that spiritual path, first off, a path as progression and there be the getting like social as the true specifics of a spiritual resulted. its a lets get down to digest and observe. i believe we all got shelters to self we're defining on protected and provided is why all the noisy voiilenc'd happened like get ready a we ready for a tin-can hit on the head. according to my mec i-owe-a thought a be worthy of good in others is a as the best all to, i guess its not a hard--ship that we really really seek a rushing real rushing turning point. wish us luck.

thanks for the top.

[Uma]

Well... I have two things to say:

First of all, Kundalini rises of itself naturally when the seeker is ready. That's when the spiritual journey really begins. Meditation is nothing without that.

And the other is - there is a lot of nonsense out there about the chakras. Don't believe everything you read. Learn from a master and personal spiritual experience not the new age "fast food" which is a lot of junk from a ton of false gurus.

[wstein]

The single best method for the student to advance is by first learning and practicing a true form of meditation 'The'??

You talk as if there is only one spiritual path. As people/beings are not all the same, their 'paths' are not all the same.

Don't get me wrong, meditation is an effective tool for spiritual advancement. However, it is not the 'best' tool for everyone especially at every stage of their development.

[knightofalbion]

The baseline is love. Without that 'you' have nothing.
Then Service which ultimately defines 'your' life.
Start here and everything else will come, give it time.

[Uma]

The baseline is love. Without that 'you' have nothing.
Then Service which ultimately defines 'your' life.
Start here and everything else will come, give it time.

good idea, that's a safe way to ascend...keeps ego in check

[seekingtruth]

The baseline is love. Without that 'you' have nothing.
Then Service which ultimately defines 'your' life.
Start here and everything else will come, give it time.

I totally agree with this statement and may add that even though I speak the tongues of people and angels, and even if I have ALL the knowledge and know ALL the secrets there is to know and I do not have CHARITY (Love + Service), I have NOTHING :D

[bartholomew]

I totally agree with this statement and may add that even though I speak the tongues of people and angels, and even if I have ALL the knowledge and know ALL the secrets there is to know and I do not have CHARITY (Love + Service), I have NOTHING :D

I agree. Whether we call if ascension or something else we will never get where we are going until we learn to identify and deny our lower selves.

[Deepsoul]

I dont know if denying our lower selves is the way Id put it ,I find loving all of myselves unconditionally is important so I can shift into higher places of Love...

[Rokon]

I dont know if denying our lower selves is the way Id put it ,I find loving all of myselves unconditionally is important so I can shift into higher places of Love...
With all due respect for the ways of the purple souls, the suggestion to deny any part of the soul will only fragment and disempower the soul. For me it is like suggesting you cut off parts of your body because they offend the mind. Unconditional love? Every soul has a fundamental frequency and resonates with others of the same ilk, in a tribal way, similar to the colors of chakras and the rainbow. Green represents God's Heart, yellow is the Mother's Heart. The lower chakras have served as the trash bin for the higher frequencies as they discard unwanted divine (lower) vibrating essence claiming this is how to ascend. Instead it is likely, "as I see it," the biggest spiritual faux pas in the history of creation.

[Touched]

I dont know if denying our lower selves is the way Id put it ,I find loving all of myselves unconditionally is important so I can shift into higher places of Love...
Agreed.

The answer isn't denying parts of ourselves, it is listening to all of ourselves - that is the very definition of consciousness.

The most direct path isn't through denial, it is through consciousness and integration.

[Deepsoul]

Yes and Yes to Rokons and Touched posts , Finally the groundedness that im feeling is coming from giving myself the love i deserve...

[Thunder Bow]

The baseline is love. Without that 'you' have nothing.
Then Service which ultimately defines 'your' life.
Start here and everything else will come, give it time.

Service to who or what?? :confused:

[lemex]

I agree. Whether we call if ascension or something else we will never get where we are going until we learn to identify and deny our lower selves.

I think you mean the body and it's desires, not some lower form of self or entity. The mask of the body maybe.

[Deepsoul]

deleted..........double post

[Deepsoul]

Yes Lemex and I see now that Bartholomew means not to entertain the side of us that is selfish and judgmental and the many other lower levels of mind that can keep us from being free...

[shiningstars]

Far too often in our searching we will seek a desired result directly, at the beginning of our quest, prematurely. What makes this a difficult method is that it constitutes using desire to achieve things which are contrary to desire. So often we end up going round in circles getting frustrated and wondering if any of this is real or even an interesting dream...

I'll try to make this short and to the point. What I will say is based on my own experiences and also from many, many years of listening to others. I ask those who may be offended by what I say to pardon me in advance.

Forget about chakras. Forget about kundalini. Don't fret over knowing your guide. The reason I say these things is not because there is nothing to be gained but because of what I claim in my first paragraph above. How much sense does it make to use emotional energies to discover the high realms? This sort of thing has been part of the human spiritual behavioural package for thousands of years. Yet who around us has gained anything? There's a better way.

If the goal is to know your guide. If you want to settle and adjust your chakras and if the final act of raising the dragon (kundalini) is what you strive for then go the the level of spirit wherein positive control is easily possible. This is the purpose and reason for the quiet meditation of the Buddha. It is an exercise in pure mind, not low desire based mind but the high mind of our souls. This is where our guides are.
-

Back to high meditation. The single purpose of learning to meditate properly is nothing to do with any below the solar plexus energies but with the mind. The advanced student is so not because she/he spent years meditating on the lower body centers but because he/she went higher in the beginning. This is what a Buddhist monk and nun learn as disciples. Their success is the reason that we find such comfort and solace in a temple. Learn what they know and carry with you wherever you go the strength which answers all questions.


Vote that this is a pinned post :smile:

Thanks.

shiningstars

[Hemera]

I agree Shiningstars, it is a really informative post, full of wisdom.

[bartholomew]

'The'??

You talk as if there is only one spiritual path. As people/beings are not all the same, their 'paths' are not all the same.

Don't get me wrong, meditation is an effective tool for spiritual advancement. However, it is not the 'best' tool for everyone especially at every stage of their development.

No brother. I do not speak of paths but of a good method of meditation. No matter our path when we learn to quiet our minds we are positioned to advance. Then, the details of our path can be implemented.

[bartholomew]

I think you mean the body and it's desires, not some lower form of self or entity. The mask of the body maybe.James: Forgive the late reply. Bartholomew means the lower desires but they are not separated from lower mind. If we can manage to quiet our minds it is our lower mind which is quieted. In this condition our higher, soul, mind is now free to be dominant. Any meditation form which will result in this is worthwhile. If some ancillary method such as acupuncture is used all the better.

[bartholomew]

I think you mean the body and it's desires, not some lower form of self or entity. The mask of the body maybe.
Bartholomew: The lower self and the lower mind are one.

[bartholomew]

Really feeling that post Bartholomew ,I have been through alot of drama and now coming out the other side is great, I have great connection with my base chakra and Mother Earth and her energies and this is very grounding for me, My third eye is functioning highly And has lots of little lights beside it also ,and my crown has several sections to it too,not only the very top but the fontanelle and back of head, Jesus is my one and only guide to my knowledge ,I am just starting to connect and feel my heart chakra, Lovely and the others will come as my situation improves or as I improve my situation, God bless .

I also like chanting ,visulisations,worship and affirmations to empower them.

Jesus, in addition to being the Son of God, is appointed by God to be the World Teacher. This is the everyday business of the Savior of the World. Jesus has never left the Earth. His return will only be to our open cognition. This is a title which is recognized by many spiritualist disciplines, mine included. It is not without reason that Jesus is so often depicted wearing a golden halo and with palms facing the listener. He uses His palm chakras to heal the world. Sort of like a blessing to any who would receive it. It is true that many American protestant denominations do not use these images but, images or no images, Jesus is much more engaged with the spiritual workings of humanity than many realize. There is nothing in mystical Christianity that is incompatible with essential Biblical beliefs.

Good post Brother...

[wstein]

No brother. I do not speak of paths but of a good method of meditation. No matter our path when we learn to quiet our minds we are positioned to advance. Then, the details of our path can be implemented. You are correct, you do not speak of 'paths' rather you speak of a singular set of things one ought to do as per the title of this thread "The Spiritual Path".

To quote a few excerpts in support of this:
Forget about chakras. Forget about kundalini. Don't fret over knowing your guide.
True meditation
The single best method
The single purpose of learning to meditate properly is nothing to do with any below the solar plexus energies but with the mind.

As I said before, I am in general support of using meditation for spiritual pursuits. However, I am far from convinced that it is the best tool. Also I am not at all convinced that there is one best way to approach meditation. Further, there are many purposes and benefits to meditation not just the one you describe as the "single purpose".

I get your sincerity. Perhaps what you say is even accurate for you. However, I do not see how it can represent the truth for everyone. Spiritually speaking, humans are just not all the alike enough.

[bartholomew]

You are correct, you do not speak of 'paths' rather you speak of a singular set of things one ought to do as per the title of this thread "The Spiritual Path".

To quote a few excerpts in support of this:





As I said before, I am in general support of using meditation for spiritual pursuits. However, I am far from convinced that it is the best tool. Also I am not at all convinced that there is one best way to approach meditation. Further, there are many purposes and benefits to meditation not just the one you describe as the "single purpose".

I get your sincerity. Perhaps what you say is even accurate for you. However, I do not see how it can represent the truth for everyone. Spiritually speaking, humans are just not all the alike enough.


You make some very good points. Thank you for your kind response.

[bartholomew]

In order to better understand matters of spirituality it is good to consider this. In our familiar world there are both exoteric and esoteric faces to questions. If I mention "the path" (of spiritual development) I do not mean any particular method used by some oneon Earth. Rather I refer to the "path" (of return) in a very broad sense. No matter the discipline used by any of us we are all at some time or other stepping onto the path of return to the source.

When I speak of meditation there is also a consideration. There are many forms. Scientists, business people, inventors, clergy working on a sermon and everyone else too at times, meditate while engaged in their efforts. No matter what the purpose of the activity when we send our minds to places with the object of retrieving information we are meditating. It does not matter that a person may not agree with any need for meditation. When any of us use our intuitive forces we are meditating because our minds go to the same high places that a monk or nun in the lotus position sends his or hers to.

Example: A business person may be busy developing a plan when viewed from the exoteric stance but when the same person doing the same thing is seen from the esoteric something more is seen. The person now is active on high planes as well as low. This is the reason such activity can now be called "meditation".

Can we see the obvious interaction between the lower and higher? This is the everyday practice of spirituality that is so very important in aboriginal societies. Our modern western cultures so often deny spirit but no matter. We are the same kind of human beings as those who do and we use the very same connections, every day. It could be said that a Shaman in rough clothing is the same in many ways as a CEO in an expensive Italian made suit. They both use their spiritual powers to advantage.

[shiningstars]

Thank you, Bartholomew, for all your wisdom and compassion on these Boards and in reality too.

shiningstars

[MicroMacro]

...we will never get where we are going until we learn to identify and deny our lower selves.

Why can't the lower selves evolve and rise? Why do they have to be left behind?

What happens to them when we elevate?

I've been thinking on these - meditation, higher mind, higher self, higher vibration.

I'm studying The Kybalion while I wait for the book you suggested. And I woke up sad this morning. I didn't realize I was sad when I woke up, but then it opened.

My dreams last night seemed to show me just how dysfunctional I am. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm completely spiritually inept, but the voices that hover around rung one on the ladder to bliss are really obnoxious and loud and aggressive. My dreams were full of dishonesty, attempts to deceive, some weird sexual stuff with someone from my past that I wouldn't - in a quadrillion years - consider having sex with, interfering with medical help I need in favor of considering old addict behavior, and some other sneaky, strange stuff.

There was a white guy, dark hair - 30 maybe - sitting with me and several others. We were listening to someone speak and I think we may have been in a limo. This guy in white was there to make sure that the person speaking - said what he had to say, but didn't try any sneaky stuff. He was totally interested in what the person was saying, but he kept having to tell him to keep his hands at his side. Sort of like a cop would - except that this guy was wearing a tight white T-shirt and white jeans. While I wasn't the one talking - I was. I was me and him. I couldn't see him, but I was watching the guy in white jeans watch him.

Where I'm going with this is - I'm not the sharpest tool in the kit. I'm the kind of person who can't find her sunglasses - not because they're on my head - but because I'm wearing them. So when I learn things - I learn through my head, but I also become aware internally. They're not the same.

I just put information in there and tell myself to do what it will with it. So, this morning - I got sad because I wondered if by learning and training myself to elevate - I'll be leaving a part of myself behind. I don't want to leave any bits of me behind - I want to integrate my parts and elevate as a whole.

So - where am I off here?

Edit - It feels appropriate to note that as I was just walking into the house 30 seconds ago, I noticed a caterpillar crawling along one of the steps to the porch.

I get it. Metamorphosis.

I appreciate the message.

I'm still sad, but I get it.

[bartholomew]

MicroMacro]Why can't the lower selves evolve and rise? They do. What really happens is that the best parts of the lower now become the higher. The other parts remain as memories. See? But it's easier just to say the lower is replaced by the higher. Why do they have to be left behind?It is only a convenience of speaking that we say the lower selves are left behind. What really happens is that our points of reference change as we mature. When we were spiritually immature we tended to be emotional. As we mature we raise our awareness from the solar plexus to the heart and mind. Now we have matured. The lower self (the emotional self that we used to be) still exists as a memory. It's kind of like how we, as adults, might remember ourselves as small children.

My own soul is at a certain age. I have had memories of a lifetime as a man on the grassy steps of (today) western Mongolia. I remember the aroma of the sweet grasses, the heat of the summer sun, the taste of the clear water in streams, the smell of horses.... That was a long time ago. I value the memories and when those times ended the "me" of then became part of "me" who is now. That's how it is.

What happens to them when we elevate?As we siad "elevation" is only the act of bringing our focus as a person from the solar plexus to the heart and mind. What happens to the solar plexus then? It remains but it is "elevated" as well. As we raise our consciousnesses in this way the lower centers are cleansed. They remain viable but now they are "mellowed" out so to speak. The colors in our auras become pastels.

I've been thinking on these - meditation, higher mind, higher self, higher vibration.As you do never mind the words. Visualize spiritual growth as an elevator ride up a very tall building. Along the way there are many changes in outlook (view) but as we progress we remember everything. The knowledge and experience of each floor matures into a vast library of wisdom at the top. This is the goal. Even then we remember the very beginning. Nothing is really lost. But at this it is no longer personal. We now are solidly bound to our fellow travelers.

I'm studying The Kybalion while I wait for the book you suggested. And I woke up sad this morning. I didn't realize I was sad when I woke up, but then it opened.Don't be in a hurry. I'm re reading the book myself, and others.

My dreams last night seemed to show me just how dysfunctional I am. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm completely spiritually inept, but the voices that hover around rung one on the ladder to bliss are really obnoxious and loud and aggressive. My dreams were full of dishonesty, attempts to deceive, some weird sexual stuff with someone from my past that I wouldn't - in a quadrillion years - consider having sex with, interfering with medical help I need in favor of considering old addict behavior, and some other sneaky, strange stuff.

There was a white guy, dark hair - 30 maybe - sitting with me and several others. We were listening to someone speak and I think we may have been in a limo. This guy in white was there to make sure that the person speaking - said what he had to say, but didn't try any sneaky stuff. He was totally interested in what the person was saying, but he kept having to tell him to keep his hands at his side. Sort of like a cop would - except that this guy was wearing a tight white T-shirt and white jeans. While I wasn't the one talking - I was. I was me and him. I couldn't see him, but I was watching the guy in white jeans watch him.

Where I'm going with this is - I'm not the sharpest tool in the kit. I'm the kind of person who can't find her sunglasses - not because they're on my head - but because I'm wearing them. So when I learn things - I learn through my head, but I also become aware internally. They're not the same.

I just put information in there and tell myself to do what it will with it. So, this morning - I got sad because I wondered if by learning and training myself to elevate - I'll be leaving a part of myself behind. I don't want to leave any bits of me behind - I want to integrate my parts and elevate as a whole.

So - where am I off here?You are the same as I in many ways. Set a pace for learning and then stay below it. Go slowly. Forget the dreams. They are only Astral plane ramblings of zero importance. Like me you are a sensitive. You easily see what others are dreaming. Ignore.

Read the book when you have time. Take notes. Do easy meditations. Learn the art of being reflective and personally contemplative. You don't need to go to India to do this. All you need is a mirror and to be relaxed.

And, when I say "deny your lower self" I mean recognize it for what it is.... keep raising the bar of who you are.

You have your own history. Why not try to remember it on paper? It is an exercise which helps greatly to know exactly who you are. I did that. It was good that I did. I learned quite a lot.

[MicroMacro]

Bartholomew: My own soul is at a certain age. I have had memories of a lifetime as a man on the grassy steps of (today) western Mongolia. I remember the aroma of the sweet grasses, the heat of the summer sun, the taste of the clear water in streams, the smell of horses.... That was a long time ago.

You have your own history. Why not try to remember it on paper?

Remember my history - as in remember my past lives history?

Set a pace for learning and then stay below it.

I read bits and pieces of things and then put them down - mid-chapter sometimes so that what I read can sink in. Is this what you mean?

Thank you. I'm glad you got back to me when you did. A bird flew into my house as I started to read you post and it's been a bit of an emotional/strange day. What you wrote about being a sensitive - I've heard that before. It's been a long time and I'm not really sure what it means.

[iamthat]

Why can't the lower selves evolve and rise? Why do they have to be left behind?

The esoteric books of Alice Bailey describe the spiritual journey as follows.

As incarnate human beings we consist of Being (Spirit), Consciousness (Soul or the higher Self) and Personality (the lower self, or the sum total of our mental and emotional patterns expressing through a physical body).

For countless incarnations we identify solely with personality, the lower self, and our experiences in the physical world.

Eventually we turn within and make contact with the Soul, or consciousness, the higher Self.

Then we go through a stage where identification fluctuates between the higher and lower selves. For most of us this can be a very difficult time as we aspire to the Higher Self while still not being free of the lower self.

Then the higher and lower selves begin to blend, and we become Soul-infused personalities. The lower self becomes a vehicle of expression for consciousness. Esoterically this is considered the path of Discipleship.

At a later stage the process is repeated as Being or Spirit blends with the Soul-infused personality. Esoterically this is considered as the path of Initiation.

The end result is that we are Being expressing itself through physical form. Nothing has been lost except our identification with that which is small and limited.

Peace.

[iamthat]

Somehow entered this twice and cannot find a way to delete the second sending.

[naturesflow]

Why can't the lower selves evolve and rise? Why do they have to be left behind?

The esoteric books of Alice Bailey describe the spiritual journey as follows.

As incarnate human beings we consist of Being (Spirit), Consciousness (Soul or the higher Self) and Personality (the lower self, or the sum total of our mental and emotional patterns expressing through a physical body).

For countless incarnations we identify solely with personality, the lower self, and our experiences in the physical world.

Eventually we turn within and make contact with the Soul, or consciousness, the higher Self.

Then we go through a stage where identification fluctuates between the higher and lower selves. For most of us this can be a very difficult time as we aspire to the Higher Self while still not being free of the lower self.

Then the higher and lower selves begin to blend, and we become Soul-infused personalities. The lower self becomes a vehicle of expression for consciousness. Esoterically this is considered the path of Discipleship.

At a later stage the process is repeated as Being or Spirit blends with the Soul-infused personality. Esoterically this is considered as the path of Initiation.

The end result is that we are Being expressing itself through physical form. Nothing has been lost except our identification with that which is small and limited.

Peace.


That makes much sense to me. The process becomes an integrative connection of all of you, nothing is left out, because everything matters until it no longer has too..

[bartholomew]

Bartholomew: My own soul is at a certain age. I have had memories of a lifetime as a man on the grassy steps of (today) western Mongolia. I remember the aroma of the sweet grasses, the heat of the summer sun, the taste of the clear water in streams, the smell of horses.... That was a long time ago.

You have your own history. Why not try to remember it on paper?

Remember my history - as in remember my past lives history?

Set a pace for learning and then stay below it.

I read bits and pieces of things and then put them down - mid-chapter sometimes so that what I read can sink in. Is this what you mean?

Thank you. I'm glad you got back to me when you did. A bird flew into my house as I started to read you post and it's been a bit of an emotional/strange day. What you wrote about being a sensitive - I've heard that before. It's been a long time and I'm not really sure what it means.


Yes. Imagination is the most powerful force that we know of. Think about the story of your life (this life). Then add to it by including new things. Create a fictional character to more fully engage your mind. I have done this many times and discovered new worlds of adventure and I know that many of them are based on my soul's past lives. None of this has to perfect in logic. It only has to be engaging. The idea is to send the lower mind far away to see what it might bring back.

Yes we are alike in many ways. I am currently re reading four books that I first read many decades ago. Just because they are familiar territory to me. I like it. That's all the reason I need.

James

[bartholomew]

Bartholomew: My own soul is at a certain age. I have had memories of a lifetime as a man on the grassy steps of (today) western Mongolia. I remember the aroma of the sweet grasses, the heat of the summer sun, the taste of the clear water in streams, the smell of horses.... That was a long time ago.

You have your own history. Why not try to remember it on paper?

Remember my history - as in remember my past lives history?

Set a pace for learning and then stay below it.

I read bits and pieces of things and then put them down - mid-chapter sometimes so that what I read can sink in. Is this what you mean?

Thank you. I'm glad you got back to me when you did. A bird flew into my house as I started to read you post and it's been a bit of an emotional/strange day. What you wrote about being a sensitive - I've heard that before. It's been a long time and I'm not really sure what it means.


Yes. Imagination is the most powerful force that I know of. Think about the story of your life (this life). Then add to it by including new things. Create a fictional character to more fully engage your mind. I have done this many times and discovered new worlds of adventure and I know that many of them are based on my soul's past lives. None of this has to perfect in logic. It only has to be engaging. The idea is to send the lower mind far away to see what it might bring back.

Yes we are alike in many ways. I am currently re reading four books all at once, a little from one, then another that I first read many decades ago. Just because they are familiar territory to me. I like it. That's all the reason I need.


James

[bartholomew]

Why can't the lower selves evolve and rise? Why do they have to be left behind?

The esoteric books of Alice Bailey describe the spiritual journey as follows.

As incarnate human beings we consist of Being (Spirit), Consciousness (Soul or the higher Self) and Personality (the lower self, or the sum total of our mental and emotional patterns expressing through a physical body).

For countless incarnations we identify solely with personality, the lower self, and our experiences in the physical world.

Eventually we turn within and make contact with the Soul, or consciousness, the higher Self.

Then we go through a stage where identification fluctuates between the higher and lower selves. For most of us this can be a very difficult time as we aspire to the Higher Self while still not being free of the lower self.

Then the higher and lower selves begin to blend, and we become Soul-infused personalities. The lower self becomes a vehicle of expression for consciousness. Esoterically this is considered the path of Discipleship.

At a later stage the process is repeated as Being or Spirit blends with the Soul-infused personality. Esoterically this is considered as the path of Initiation.

The end result is that we are Being expressing itself through physical form. Nothing has been lost except our identification with that which is small and limited.

Peace.




Spiritual growth, in it's entirety, is nothing more than a long series of realizations the greatest of which (in my view) is the personality's threshold of soul awareness. From the beginning, when the soul was created, until this point could be called the "outward path". From the point of this great recognition onwards the journey could be likened to the "path of return". At this point the soul strengthens it's connection to the body which eventually becomes "soul infused". The next great step, still far distant, is the point of mastery. Now the personality, still bound to the Earth but now with expanded purpose, becomes knowingly adept. At this point the end of the cycle, and the beginning of another, is near.

One of the greatest of all realizations is that along the way no souls are lost. All eventually rejoin the source in perfection.... then continue. All of us, even the very worst human being that ever lived, will eventually be cleansed and rejoin the creator in full harmony.


Bartholomew

[Baile]

Spiritual growth, in it's entirety, is nothing more than a long series of realizations the greatest of which (in my view) is the personality's threshold of soul awareness. From the beginning, when the soul was created, until this point could be called the "outward path". From the point of this great recognition onwards the journey could be likened to the "path of return". At this point the soul strengthens it's connection to the body which eventually becomes "soul infused". The next great step, still far distant, is the point of mastery. Now the personality, still bound to the Earth but now with expanded purpose, becomes knowingly adept. At this point the end of the cycle, and the beginning of another, is near.

One of the greatest of all realizations is that along the way no souls are lost. All eventually rejoin the source in perfection.... then continue. All of us, even the very worst human being that ever lived, will eventually be cleansed and rejoin the creator in full harmony.This aligns exactly with my own experiences in this lifetime, and with what I have been coming to on my own as a result of self-reflective investigation. I'm copying and pasting this in a Notepad file, I don't want to forget it. (Recognizing and remembering... two different things!)

[shoni7510]

Dear Batholomew,

I find your post to be interesting and informative for someone who is starting to wonder about meditation. It give pointers on where to begin and what to focus on. For aome people meditation comes later after the chakras or it never does, there many many ways to kill this cat.

[bartholomew]

Dear Batholomew,

I find your post to be interesting and informative for someone who is starting to wonder about meditation. It give pointers on where to begin and what to focus on. For aome people meditation comes later after the chakras or it never does, there many many ways to kill this cat.


The most profound meditations are simple and easy.

[Lorelyen]

The opening post brings forth wisdoms so I say thank you, bartholomew. It does seem a preparation for almost anything that may follow and would certainly reduce the chance of delusion to which many fall when considering themselves spiritual or want to "be" spiritual.

♥

[bartholomew]

This aligns exactly with my own experiences in this lifetime, and with what I have been coming to on my own as a result of self-reflective investigation. I'm copying and pasting this in a Notepad file, I don't want to forget it. (Recognizing and remembering... two different things!)


Pre human. Human. Post human. Forever and ever....

[MicroMacro]

Spiritual growth, in it's entirety, is nothing more than a long series of realizations ...

Plain and simple.
To the point.
Nothing needs to be narrowed down.

Much appreciated.

~

I was thinking last night about souls and why there are so many more on earth today than there were 10,000 years ago. Where were they back then?

[FallingLeaves]

oh well. yet ANOTHER club I won't be allowed to join. I guess it never ends...

[bartholomew]

Plain and simple.
To the point.
Nothing needs to be narrowed down.

Much appreciated.

~

I was thinking last night about souls and why there are so many more on earth today than there were 10,000 years ago. Where were they back then?


Good question.

1. There are always more souls available and looking for bodies then there are bodies to accommodate them (on typical planets).

2. New souls are being created at all times while senior souls are leaving planets all the time. But it does sometimes seem the ratios are not constant.

3. New souls incarnate seldom at first then more and more often as they acclimate to a planet while senior souls come back more often with shorter rests between.

4. Lastly as you say there are lots of people on Earth now. One great reason for this is that it is the changing of an astrological age. We are on the cusp of a new age as everyone knows. Souls in the Earth system know this too and try extra hard to have a body at these times in order to take advantage of the unique attunements which are available. Those who follow "esoteric" astrology will be quick to understand and agree with this.

Study world history and correlate, factor in those human events which seem to involve masses of people. Look for periods of peak activity when ages are changing. If you do this never mind the numbers. Watch for large changes relative to the times they occur.

When trying to make further sense of all of this it is good to remember that if all a soul had to do was to learn things the soul could easily stay where it is (on the Earth system's soul plane) and attend classes. This could literally be true. But the requirement is for wisdom and knowledge is only the necessary intermediary step towards that. And.... wisdom is the child of hard experience, not classroom work.

Special Note: There is another more esoteric reason also which has to do with an added responsibility of souls to participate in the raising up of very coarse spiritual matter to higher levels. This is very much to do with the destiny of souls. It is a seldom spoken of secondary purpose for us being here on physical worlds; for the whole effort. It is a topic unto itself. If anyone really wants to know a bit about it I will be happy to provide a brief introduction.

Another Special Note: Souls seldom change planets especially from another to the Earth. The Earth is a most difficult assignment. others are much easier, less intense. On Earth though the opportunities for fast advancement exist. Sometimes we read about a person who seems incapable in so many ways, one who cannot function normally, one who seems barely human. This is typically the way an off worlder would be. This is not conjecture but truth.

Lastly we will add just a note regarding those near ancient times that you ask about, 10,000 years ago. There are two things to consider. First is that the Earth lives cyclically in many senses of the word. We before mentioned astrology and how ages come and go. Most of us know about astrology as it concerns a man. We know his birth date and time and construct of chart. Most of us are aware of the fact that we have chakras each of which connects one of our subtle bodies to their correspondences in "spirit". Few of us are aware of other aspects though. If we use the law of correspondences and consider the higher we find that the Earth also has chakras. We may even find that the solar system does too. Would it surprise us then to know that everything is interconnected? Our heart chakras are linked to the heart center of the Earth and also (through other means) to that of the solar system. We have regenerative centers in our bodies. So does the Earth and so does the solar system. Now as astrology may inform us of our inclinations in life it may also do likewise with the Earth and the solar system. And it does. This study is a part of esoteric astrology. It is quite different from that which is normally used here on Earth. One thing that they both have in common tough is the structured interconnectedness provided by those great assemblages of stars in our galaxy. Behind this hint is another very profound set of truths which cannot be embarked upon here.

what the above simply means is that we humans as a race upon a globe are very much connected with those forces which come to our region of the universe from far away. But they don't just happen to be there. They are the efforts of those who guide. So.... As "life" ebbs and flows in the Macro it does also in the Micro. Cycles are trans universal. They are the heartbeats of all that is. (interesting username you have selected) Where this thought leads is far beyond the scope of this post....

Back to your question. 10,000 yeas ago the Earth was at a cyclic low point. An astrological chart of the Earth would reveal this. Again I must say that we are on the verge of another very long story...

Bartholomew

This is james... now... sometimes channeling brings on sickness, flu like symptoms. I am getting those now and am stopping. It's just an unbalance.

I hope that all your questions were answered or at least hinted at. I am not going to proof this so forgive any typos..

James

[Bohdiyana]

I was thinking last night about souls and why there are so many more on earth today than there were 10,000 years ago. Where were they back then?

So many question so few answers. The one that gets me is, is the universe infinite without an end or does it end somewhere? Both answers are mind boggling from a human perspective. Infinite means no end ever anywhere. Forever. If it ends, what is on the other side where it ends? But then if you believe in the flat earth theory, we are basically in a snow globe somebody made. Some scientists today say there is evidence we are a 3d projection of a 2d hologram. If this is true, everything we are and everything we experience is basically a computer program.

As far as all the new souls, I read souls are created. So yea the "astral population" is increasing as fast as earths is. But then there is room if the space of the astral world is infinite. Spread out!

[bartholomew]

oh well. yet ANOTHER club I won't be allowed to join. I guess it never ends...


We'd like to hear what you have to say...

[bartholomew]

So many question so few answers. The one that gets me is, is the universe infinite without an end or does it end somewhere? Both answers are mind boggling from a human perspective. Infinite means no end ever anywhere. Forever. If it ends, what is on the other side where it ends? But then if you believe in the flat earth theory, we are basically in a snow globe somebody made. Some scientists today say there is evidence we are a 3d projection of a 2d hologram. If this is true, everything we are and everything we experience is basically a computer program.

As far as all the new souls, I read souls are created. So yea the "astral population" is increasing as fast as earths is. But then there is room if the space of the astral world is infinite. Spread out!

Our three dimensional universe is not infinite. It only seems that way because we do not have higher dimension vision.

The astral plane associated with the Earth is also not infinite although it can expand to suit need. It is an area of relatively dense spiritual matter beginning just out of the atmosphere and extending as a concentric circle about 300,000 miles out as measured in physical terms.

There are other races who have mastered the sciences of trans dimensional movement. These are the visitors that the Earth has hosted for so long. They are perfectly aware of greater realities. They know the limits of the universe. We follow behind.... We humans have the unique ability to pose questions which are beyond our ability to understand. Mr. Spock would say, "interesting".

James

[FallingLeaves]

We'd like to hear what you have to say...

since you asked... my comment was based on this:


The man/woman is no longer troubled. He/she has learned.


which you said at the end of the opening post.

basically noone is ever going to consider me as being no longer troubled thus I will never have learned, thus no club membership for me!

But in my saner moments I see what you said as kind of like an ending. Like happily ever after? But then what are you supposed to do next? Really, what comes after that? Noone ever says that part any more than fairytales ever elaborate on exactly what 'happily ever after' actually means!

So I guess I just always assumed the ending was it, there was nothing more that is really interesting to come? But somehow it is desirable anyway?

Well if there is nothing after the ending why do we want to go there? Isn't that kind of like striving for death?

I see people living their lives like this, they work hard all their lives to achieve a 'goal' then when they've achieved it they take a vacation then they just die.

Isn't this exactly what 'happily ever after' is saying? And what is meant by suddenly coming to a place where you can avoid thinking of trouble?

So what exactly is the point? Do I really want to just go on doing whatever in pursuit of my goals until I am ready to be satisfied and have my vacation, all so I can die in peace? What exactly is the point?

Well that is all I want to say!

[MicroMacro]

Good question.

1. There are always more souls available and looking for bodies then there are bodies to accommodate them (on typical planets).

We are on the cusp of a new age …

Special Note: There is another more esoteric reason also which has to do with an added responsibility of souls to participate in the raising up of very coarse spiritual matter to higher levels. This is very much to do with the destiny of souls. It is a seldom spoken of secondary purpose for us being here on physical worlds; for the whole effort. It is a topic unto itself. If anyone really wants to know a bit about it I will be happy to provide a brief introduction.

Another Special Note: Souls seldom change planets especially from another to the Earth. The Earth is a most difficult assignment. others are much easier, less intense. On Earth, though the opportunities for fast advancement exist. Sometimes we read about a person who seems incapable in so many ways, one who cannot function normally, one who seems barely human. This is typically the way an off worlder would be. This is not conjecture but truth.

If we use the law of correspondences and consider the higher we find that the Earth also has chakras. We may even find that the solar system does too. Our heart chakras are linked to the heart center of the Earth and also (through other means) to that of the solar system. We have regenerative centers in our bodies. So does the Earth and so does the solar system.

Now as astrology may inform us of our inclinations in life it may also do likewise with the Earth and the solar system. And it does. This study is a part of esoteric astrology. One thing that they both have in common tough is the structured interconnectedness provided by those great assemblages of stars in our galaxy. Behind this hint is another very profound set of truths which cannot be embarked upon here.

what the above simply means is that we humans as a race upon a globe are very much connected with those forces which come to our region of the universe from far away. But they don't just happen to be there. They are the efforts of those who guide. So.... As "life" ebbs and flows in the Macro it does also in the Micro. Cycles are trans universal. They are the heartbeats of all that is. (interesting username you have selected) Where this thought leads is far beyond the scope of this post....

This is james... now... sometimes channeling brings on sickness, flu like symptoms. I am getting those now and am stopping. It's just an unbalance.

I hope that all your questions were answered or at least hinted at. I am not going to proof this so forgive any typos..

James

Thank you – both!

From the top: Where are these souls coming from and where are they now?

In another post of yours, you wrote that Bartholomew is your soul. Question: If Bartholomew is your soul, who is Bartholomew's soul? Why isn't your soul's name James? Aren't our souls inside us? Can you see where I'm going with this...?

The Age of Aquarius?

Density of the souls … As in weight? Mass? When one soul is denser than another – does that mean it's heavier and closer to the physical plane? Is my soul the heaviest kind?

From another post to a member you wrote, "The most profound meditations are simple and easy." Meditations plural - what are two profound, simple, and easy meditations that you recommend?

“Behind this hint is another very profound set of truths which cannot be embarked upon here. “
Why is that?

Is an Age – like the Age of Aquarius – like a stage in the life of a person? Puberty or middle age maybe?

It just showed up..

I have so many questions it's hard to filter them all. I deleted about ten.

I hope you feel balanced and better soon.

[MicroMacro]

So many question so few answers. The one that gets me is, is the universe infinite without an end or does it end somewhere? Both answers are mind boggling from a human perspective. If it ends, what is on the other side where it ends?

Some scientists today say there is evidence we are a 3d projection of a 2d hologram. If this is true, everything we are and everything we experience is basically a computer program.

As far as all the new souls, I read souls are created. So yea the "astral population" is increasing as fast as earths is. But then there is room if the space of the astral world is infinite. Spread out!

The idea that the Universe might be infinite doesn't resonate. Neither does the idea that we're a 3D projection. That would be sad. :/

Spread out! Right!? Move it, mister!
:)

[Baile]

So what exactly is the point? Do I really want to just go on doing whatever in pursuit of my goals until I am ready to be satisfied and have my vacation, all so I can die in peace? What exactly is the point?Soul evolution. The human collective's individual and collective soul evolution. We accomplish this over many lifetimes and over eons of time.

I struggled with these same questions many years ago; had no understanding of any of this and couldn't fathom the purpose my unhappy life. But it is an understanding that comes eventually, and will come to everyone. Soul evolution is our birth right. Hang in there.

[bartholomew]

since you asked... my comment was based on this:



which you said at the end of the opening post.

basically noone is ever going to consider me as being no longer troubled thus I will never have learned, thus no club membership for me!

But in my saner moments I see what you said as kind of like an ending. Like happily ever after? But then what are you supposed to do next? Really, what comes after that? Noone ever says that part any more than fairytales ever elaborate on exactly what 'happily ever after' actually means!

So I guess I just always assumed the ending was it, there was nothing more that is really interesting to come? But somehow it is desirable anyway?

Well if there is nothing after the ending why do we want to go there? Isn't that kind of like striving for death?

I see people living their lives like this, they work hard all their lives to achieve a 'goal' then when they've achieved it they take a vacation then they just die.

Isn't this exactly what 'happily ever after' is saying? And what is meant by suddenly coming to a place where you can avoid thinking of trouble?

So what exactly is the point? Do I really want to just go on doing whatever in pursuit of my goals until I am ready to be satisfied and have my vacation, all so I can die in peace? What exactly is the point?

Well that is all I want to say!


There is plenty after "the end" but we can't see it because it is beyond the ability of our minds to understand. Well this is not always strictly true.

A fairy tale ending implies timeless rewards. In these stories what is really happening is that the limits of our familiar dimensional living have been reached so instead of confronting that reality the authors simply say "for ever more" or something like that.

When we finish with the third dimension we move to the fourth and so on. But, from within each we can glimpse ahead just enough to wonder. Those who do this are sometimes known as "visionaries". What is this like?

We live about two to three thousand lifetimes on physical worlds then we have choices about fhe future. Some of us stay with our familiar planets to help out and others move off to ethereal worlds where they will begin again in entirely new settings with new purposes. But all of these are connected. The physical existence is a vital part of the higher. The thing that all of the worlds of dimensions has in common is creative purpose. Yes. There really is a source and if we want to call if God that's OK.

We send our minds to far off places with so many questions. We encounter limits. But are they? No. They are really doors that haven't opened yet. We are bounded by three dimensional minds. But.... we can connect to fourth or fifth dimensional mental planes too. When we do this too often we come back frustrated by some strange inability to comprehend. Here, this very place, is where the most interesting questions come from.

If you like we can go exploring just to see what is out there?

[Greenslade]

So what exactly is the point?
Look in the mirror.

Do I really want to just go on doing whatever in pursuit of my goals until I am ready to be satisfied and have my vacation, all so I can die in peace?Now you're getting the idea. Do you?

You are the answer looking for the question.

[Shivani Devi]

It is difficult to forget and toss aside everything I know...everything I have ever learned to progress spiritually. One feels like 'If I have to start all over from scratch again, why should I bother?'

It is difficult when you let your path define your goals, when even 'letting go' and 'just being yourself' is a goal in itself when one cannot do that already.

What is it that separates me, from 'average Joe' who only lives for his next meal and his next shag?

To give that up means I may as well just be like 'average Joe' but when I try that, I feel like a huge hypocrite somehow.

Of course I have learned over the past two days to forget about Chakras and Kundalini as I have found that even when it comes to that, no two experiences...no two teachings are similar in any way, shape or form and I should just contend myself with the delusion that this massive energy and heat rising up my spine and into my brain is all my 'imagination' somehow because it's not really happening, despite the obvious.

I should try and forget that 'God exists' so whatever I am loving and whatever visions I have is all in my imagination too, because I cannot love or see that which 'doesn't exist' and so, whatever I am seeing or feeling is totally bogus...even though I find myself totally lost within it.

I can even try saying that enlightenment and spirituality is fake and there is no 'realisation' and no 'nirvana', but then I'll just be like 'average Joe' and something stops me from being 'average Joe' because I can see how totally and superficially farcical mere unconscious existence is.

Yeah, I wish I could give all that up...forget the whole thing, but alas, I cannot and yet I have no idea why.

[bartholomew]

It is difficult to forget and toss aside everything I know...everything I have ever learned to progress spiritually. One feels like 'If I have to start all over from scratch again, why should I bother?'

It is difficult when you let your path define your goals, when even 'letting go' and 'just being yourself' is a goal in itself when one cannot do that already.

What is it that separates me, from 'average Joe' who only lives for his next meal and his next shag?

To give that up means I may as well just be like 'average Joe' but when I try that, I feel like a huge hypocrite somehow.

Of course I have learned over the past two days to forget about Chakras and Kundalini as I have found that even when it comes to that, no two experiences...no two teachings are similar in any way, shape or form and I should just contend myself with the delusion that this massive energy and heat rising up my spine and into my brain is all my 'imagination' somehow because it's not really happening, despite the obvious.

I should try and forget that 'God exists' so whatever I am loving and whatever visions I have is all in my imagination too, because I cannot love or see that which 'doesn't exist' and so, whatever I am seeing or feeling is totally bogus...even though I find myself totally lost within it.

I can even try saying that enlightenment and spirituality is fake and there is no 'realisation' and no 'nirvana', but then I'll just be like 'average Joe' and something stops me from being 'average Joe' because I can see how totally and superficially farcical mere unconscious existence is.

Yeah, I wish I could give all that up...forget the whole thing, but alas, I cannot and yet I have no idea why.


If I were to give that a title I'd call it "The Disciple's Lament". Those are the thoughts and impressions of the higher being expressed through the lower. When we find ourselves at a threshold, a doorway and look in we see with "new" eyes but, for a time, continue to express the old way. It will pass... All will be well.

[bartholomew]

Sorry MicroMacro I didn't answer this post earlier. I missed it.

From the top: Where are these souls coming from and where are they now?New souls are being created at all times. And, old souls are leaving at an equal rate. While associated with the Earth souls live in the local soul plane which includes the higher end of the mental and lower end of the next superior plane. There is much more to this story of course. The important thing is the idea of continuity. As Bilbo Baggins said: "the road goes ever on" (or something like that).

In another post of yours, you wrote that Bartholomew is your soul. Question: If Bartholomew is your soul, who is Bartholomew's soul? Why isn't your soul's name James? Aren't our souls inside us? Can you see where I'm going with this...?Bartholome is my soul's name. Bartholomew does not have a soul. Bartholomew is a soul. Don't forget our souls exist on their own plane and are only attached to our bodies while we live here. Our souls are not inside of us. Too many religions teach that the soul is subservient to (an aspect of) the personality. It is not. Bartholomew has a master too. But in his case he is joined with a large of like souls under a single master soul.

The Age of Aquarius? Aquarius is only the current age. Before it was Pieces. The beginning of all ages herald similar events.

Density of the souls … As in weight? Mass? When one soul is denser than another – does that mean it's heavier and closer to the physical plane? Is my soul the heaviest kind?That is something which I possibly should not have written as it describes the subtle differences between souls on their own plane. In general the higher we progress in the spiritual realms the more refined, less "dense" we become. This is closely keyed to the idea of time slowing as we progress. In the highest plane of course there is no time and souls are of no density at all. this topic is way out of this conversation.

From another post to a member you wrote, "The most profound meditations are simple and easy." Meditations plural - what are two profound, simple, and easy meditations that you recommend?If I meditate today then again tomorrow and then the next day, on and on, I could look back and say that my meditations are profound. I meant "plural" meditations, not different kinds of meditations.

“Behind this hint is another very profound set of truths which cannot be embarked upon here. “
Why is that? It is beyond the scope of this topic. I will happily try to speak of it. Perhaps if you remind me sometime. I can try.

Is an Age – like the Age of Aquarius – like a stage in the life of a person? Puberty or middle age maybe?Study a bitr about astrology and you will see that groups of stars, constellations, move across the sky. Really it's the Earth which is moving though. Then there is another progression too. The long cycle. The significance is in the set of stars which is on our eastern horizon as the sun arises. Again there is much more to this both exoteric and esoteric. Please study at bit about astrology and ask again in a separate post.

It just showed up..

I have so many questions it's hard to filter them all. I deleted about ten.

I hope you feel balanced and better soon.I don't mind questions in the slightest but here is how it works. I can't access everything all at once. sometimes my connections are sporadic. Most of the time I have to start thinking about one thing and then a connection opens and I can write stuff. Changing back and forth though is not as easy. Sometimes I think about something and then, ten minutes later, all of a sudden the information starts to flow. I think my guide does that to me on purpose as a joke. Seriously though ask all you want. I will always try to answer.

[keokutah]

I mastered both spirit guide communication and I had a kundalini awakening, and for me meditation was not what helped me in those areas, in fact I strongly believe it can hinder your progress in those areas.

But visualization on the other hand... is the key to accessing spiritual abilities, opening the third eye will open the other chakras. This is exactly why vision quests are predominant in my culture and even new age beliefs that accept clairvoyance.

Meditation is only designed to connect you to the present moment, and as a result it has many other benefits, including physical benefits like improved health, less stress, lower heart rate etc...

But visualization is designed to connect you to the spiritual realms, the past, and the future, with it you can accomplish anything of a spiritual or even psychological nature.

Buddhism isn't even considered a spirituality, it's a way of life that helps us find inner peace and freedom from suffering, but I still believe meditation is important and healthy for both physical, emotional and psychological reasons. It's just not very good for strengthening spiritual abilities is all, because it does the opposite of what you need to achieve for that.

Meditation = focuses the mind on the present moment to free you from suffering
Visualization = explores the imagination and encourages 'going with the flow' in order to clearly see and tap into unimagined realms. You can actively use it to resolve issues that might be causing your suffering, for example past life regression. Instead of focusing on the present moment, you are encouraged to go wherever your mind needs to take you. Forms of visualization are also helpful in hypnotherapy and psychological therapies like part work integration or "inner child work".

I believe that meditation and visualization are both important, but they are most definitely not the same practice and offer different benefits.

[sky]

I mastered both spirit guide communication and I had a kundalini awakening, and for me meditation was not what helped me in those areas, in fact I strongly believe it can hinder your progress in those areas.
I
But visualization on the other hand... is the key to accessing spiritual abilities, opening the third eye will open the other chakras. This is exactly why vision quests are predominant in my culture and even new age beliefs that accept clairvoyance.

Meditation is only designed to connect you to the present moment, and as a result it has many other benefits, including physical benefits like improved health, less stress, lower heart rate etc...

But visualization is designed to connect you to the spiritual realms, the past, and the future, with it you can accomplish anything of a spiritual or even psychological nature.

Buddhism isn't even considered a spirituality, it's a way of life that helps us find inner peace and freedom from suffering, but I still believe meditation is important and healthy for both physical, emotional and psychological reasons. It's just not very good for strengthening spiritual abilities is all, because it does the opposite of what you need to achieve for that.

Meditation = focuses the mind on the present moment to free you from suffering
Visualization = explores the imagination and encourages 'going with the flow' in order to clearly see and tap into unimagined realms. You can actively use it to resolve issues that might be causing your suffering, for example past life regression. Instead of focusing on the present moment, you are encouraged to go wherever your mind needs to take you. Forms of visualization are also helpful in hypnotherapy and psychological therapies like part work integration or "inner child work".

I believe that meditation and visualization are both important, but they are most definitely not the same practice and offer different benefits.




Buddhism is a path of practise and spiritual development, personal spiritual development leading to insight into the true nature of life...

[Baile]

Buddhism isn't even considered a spirituality, it's a way of life that helps us find inner peace and freedom from suffering, but I still believe meditation is important and healthy for both physical, emotional and psychological reasons. It's just not very good for strengthening spiritual abilities is all, because it does the opposite of what you need to achieve for that.Funny, I just posted to someone to investigate the Buddhist eight-fold path if they are interested in taking their spiritual journey to the next level. As in doing it in the world; taking self-responsibility and becoming the spiritual person you want to be. Like that be-the-change adage attributed to Gandhi.

[wstein]

Meditation is only designed to connect you to the present moment Meditation is only designed to connect you with yourself (inner/divine self).

Sustained meditation practice usually results in being present (in the 'now'). This should not be confused with being in the 'present moment'. Being present is about fully witnessing that which is. Since, as a spiritual being, you are not confined by time, it does not imply that you are restricted to a single moment in time. For beginning meditaters who are still strongly associated with their physical form (body), it may be impossible to distinguish 'being present' from being in the 'present moment'.

[MicroMacro]

Sorry MicroMacro I didn't answer this post earlier. I missed it.

In another post of yours, you wrote that Bartholomew is your soul. Question: If Bartholomew is your soul, who is Bartholomew's soul? Why isn't your soul's name James? Aren't our souls inside us? Can you see where I'm going with this...?Bartholome is my soul's name. Bartholomew does not have a soul. Bartholomew is a soul. Don't forget our souls exist on their own plane and are only attached to our bodies while we live here. Our souls are not inside of us. Too many religions teach that the soul is subservient to (an aspect of) the personality. It is not. Bartholomew has a master too. But in his case he is joined with a large of like souls under a single master soul.

I think my guide does that to me on purpose as a joke. Seriously though ask all you want. I will always try to answer.

[/B][/COLOR]

Okay. I did not know that my soul is outside me. So - it's my spirit that's inside me. Yes? Does it have a name? I'm just a wee bit confused.

Is my soul also my guardian angel? Or do I have one of each? Or is there no such thing ... ?

When you write "my guide" - you mean your soul, Bartholomew?

[bartholomew]

Okay. I did not know that my soul is outside me. So - it's my spirit that's inside me. Yes? Does it have a name? I'm just a wee bit confused.

Is my soul also my guardian angel? Or do I have one of each? Or is there no such thing ... ?

When you write "my guide" - you mean your soul, Bartholomew?


the human soul is not dependent upon the physical body for it's existence nor is it a part of or in any way subservient to the personality, which is a product of the body). The soul is made of and resides on the high mental plane (and sometimes higher). It only connects to the physical body on Earth and when the body dies the connection is withdrawn. This is why people sometimes report a sensation of being pulled during a near death experience.

The human body has a spiritual counterpart. It is the ethereal body. This is a mindless construction, a subtle copy of the physical made of ethereal matter which is like the physical only much more refined. The ethereal body is of the body but it has connections to the higher spiritual planes. These connecting points are the chakras that we so often hear about. For instance the solar plexus chakra connects our body to the astral plane. In the average human being the solar plexus is also the connection point to the soul which, as I said, is on it's own planes of existence.

Have you seen a diagram of a body with chakras arranged vertically? The body as depicted and the chakras are all made of ethereal matter. They serve as interfaces, physical to spiritual. This is their purpose and function. After death they dissipate and are gone.

Here is another correspondence which might help. The Earth is a series of concentric globes. First is the physical and liquid, then the gaseous... but there are more. Next is the ethereal, then the astral, then the mental. There are higher planes too. Each of these subtle (spiritual, higher than gaseous) is connected to the others via a chakra in the ethereal plane. In this respect the Earth is very similar to the body of a man.

A human being is made up of physical and various spiritual bodies all connected together via chakras. Visualize a Russian carved wooden doll where there are many one inside another. The Earth is constructed likewise. It, too, has spiritual bodies which are interconnected. Each human being is connected to the Earth. The Earth and all who ride upon her are a "whole".

As a review. Each of us has a soul which is not in our body but only connected to it. Each of us has an ethereal body which is the lowest grade of spiritual matter. It has no intelligence but serves to vitalize the physical. At death it is the ethereal body which leaves the physical. This accounts for the slight difference in weight that science has noted. "Live weight.... dead weight". As I said the ethereal body has no life of it's own, no particular identity and is not eternal. It has no name. After death the ethereal and the astral commonly hang around the Earth for about three days slowly dissipating. This accounts for ghost stories and the like.

Have you heard stories of sensitive people seeing a white mist floating above a newly dead body? Ethereal matter is only slightly less dense than physical and can be seen with our physical eyes under certain conditions. Where does the ethereal mass go? It simply dissipates and joins the Earth's ethereal mass. Meanwhile the human soul has already left and is gone. Do you being to understand?

The easiest way to understand all of this is through visualization but all we have available in this medium is text.

Each of us has a soul. Human beings have human souls. Souls live in groups on their own plane of existence. New souls are being created all the time just as old souls are graduating from, leaving the Earth. So at any moment there is a great mix of experience. And as time goes by a single soul grows and eventually is finished with the Earth. At any moment some souls are more advanced than others. These serve the junior souls as guides. So when we are new souls on Earth we have guides who are our seniors. After a very long time we grow in our capabilities and become guides to others. This is the way it works. So... you have a guide who is more advanced than you are. I also have a guide who is more advanced than I. My soul's name is Bartholomew. Like everyone else I have a guide as well which is a different soul.

Last about guardian angels. These are not really angels. Throughout history people have been aware of their soul guides and a tradition of a watcher or guardian or guardian angel arose. "The voice of conscience" is really the voice of our guide advising us. And again this guide is just another soul who we know well who is like us only more advanced.

Last note about angles: There really are angles. They are a race of beings apart from humanity. They have tremendously long lifetimes and serve, in a direct sense, those greater beings who "cause". Throughout history people have reported these beings because, on occasion, one will appear to a person with a "message" or set of instructions (for humanity). It was these rare occasions which resulted in the tradition of "watcher angels". People, being as they are, like to "personalize" spiritual greatness and so the idea of a personal guardian angel was born and persists to this day. Remember that is the inclination of human beings to see universal realities through the lenses of "personality". The guardian "angels" though are really our spirit (friends) guides (other human souls).



I hope this helps...

[MicroMacro]

I hope this helps...

:)

That was a lot.

Hm.

I think it would be best if I don't over think it. I may be a bit stuck on the part about my soul not being in my body. I thought we were a package deal. You write about the soul like I've heard people speak about spirit guides. It seems like we have lots of helpers (is that a fair word?) then - guides - while we have just one soul.

So how do you know the difference between your soul and what it says to you and your guides and what they're saying? Practice? Lots of practice listening over time? Like getting to know the sounds of the voices of a new family or something?

I'm going to sleep on this: "The guardian "angels" though are really our spirit (friends) guides (other human souls)."

Thank you for trying to help me understand. I appreciate it.

[bartholomew]

:)

That was a lot.

Hm.

I think it would be best if I don't over think it. I may be a bit stuck on the part about my soul not being in my body. I thought we were a package deal. You write about the soul like I've heard people speak about spirit guides. It seems like we have lots of helpers (is that a fair word?) then - guides - while we have just one soul.

So how do you know the difference between your soul and what it says to you and your guides and what they're saying? Practice? Lots of practice listening over time? Like getting to know the sounds of the voices of a new family or something?

I'm going to sleep on this: "The guardian "angels" though are really our spirit (friends) guides (other human souls)."

Thank you for trying to help me understand. I appreciate it.


! On a forum such as this one you will read many different and sometimes opposing ideas. Select the truth which seems best to you and keep it close until something better comes alone.

2. Far too many people make the assumption that our soul is a part of us, stuck inside the body somewhere and that at death it leaves. This is a harmless but very incorrect idea. Our souls are vital and active on their own plane all the time whether or not they have a body on Earth.

Another common idea especially among some Christians is that the soul can be forever lost or condemned because of something the personality did. This is false. Nothing the personality does can have any such effect on the soul. If a man engages in a lifetime of sin the result from the soul's point of view is that now it will take longer to clean up the mess. Here is a fact for you. Even the worst human being that ever lived will eventually make sufficient amends and reunite with the Father (creator) in harmony. No soul is ever lost.

3. I want to repeat regarding the fluidity of "truth". Truth changes as we grow in consciousness and wisdom. Consider what a child believes compared to what an intelligent adult believes? A world of difference sometimes but each thinks what they believe is "truth".

Don't get too wound up with all this. Spiritual growth is no more than a long series of realizations, some little, some big, that continue until we are finished with the Earth and leave. You know? Have you ever had an "ah ha" moment where you suddenly understand? This is precisely what I mean and spiritual growth works the same way.

Most of the time when I post I do so as my soul name, Bartholomew. My guide is far too busy with other things to take time out to interact with me. We have that understanding.

James

[SaturninePluto]

the human soul is not dependent upon the physical body for it's existence nor is it a part of or in any way subservient to the personality, which is a product of the body). The soul is made of and resides on the high mental plane (and sometimes higher). It only connects to the physical body on Earth and when the body dies the connection is withdrawn. This is why people sometimes report a sensation of being pulled during a near death experience.

The human body has a spiritual counterpart. It is the ethereal body. This is a mindless construction, a subtle copy of the physical made of ethereal matter which is like the physical only much more refined. The ethereal body is of the body but it has connections to the higher spiritual planes. These connecting points are the chakras that we so often hear about. For instance the solar plexus chakra connects our body to the astral plane. In the average human being the solar plexus is also the connection point to the soul which, as I said, is on it's own planes of existence.

Have you seen a diagram of a body with chakras arranged vertically? The body as depicted and the chakras are all made of ethereal matter. They serve as interfaces, physical to spiritual. This is their purpose and function. After death they dissipate and are gone.

Here is another correspondence which might help. The Earth is a series of concentric globes. First is the physical and liquid, then the gaseous... but there are more. Next is the ethereal, then the astral, then the mental. There are higher planes too. Each of these subtle (spiritual, higher than gaseous) is connected to the others via a chakra in the ethereal plane. In this respect the Earth is very similar to the body of a man.

A human being is made up of physical and various spiritual bodies all connected together via chakras. Visualize a Russian carved wooden doll where there are many one inside another. The Earth is constructed likewise. It, too, has spiritual bodies which are interconnected. Each human being is connected to the Earth. The Earth and all who ride upon her are a "whole".

As a review. Each of us has a soul which is not in our body but only connected to it. Each of us has an ethereal body which is the lowest grade of spiritual matter. It has no intelligence but serves to vitalize the physical. At death it is the ethereal body which leaves the physical. This accounts for the slight difference in weight that science has noted. "Live weight.... dead weight". As I said the ethereal body has no life of it's own, no particular identity and is not eternal. It has no name. After death the ethereal and the astral commonly hang around the Earth for about three days slowly dissipating. This accounts for ghost stories and the like.

Have you heard stories of sensitive people seeing a white mist floating above a newly dead body? Ethereal matter is only slightly less dense than physical and can be seen with our physical eyes under certain conditions. Where does the ethereal mass go? It simply dissipates and joins the Earth's ethereal mass. Meanwhile the human soul has already left and is gone. Do you being to understand?

The easiest way to understand all of this is through visualization but all we have available in this medium is text.

Each of us has a soul. Human beings have human souls. Souls live in groups on their own plane of existence. New souls are being created all the time just as old souls are graduating from, leaving the Earth. So at any moment there is a great mix of experience. And as time goes by a single soul grows and eventually is finished with the Earth. At any moment some souls are more advanced than others. These serve the junior souls as guides. So when we are new souls on Earth we have guides who are our seniors. After a very long time we grow in our capabilities and become guides to others. This is the way it works. So... you have a guide who is more advanced than you are. I also have a guide who is more advanced than I. My soul's name is Bartholomew. Like everyone else I have a guide as well which is a different soul.

Last about guardian angels. These are not really angels. Throughout history people have been aware of their soul guides and a tradition of a watcher or guardian or guardian angel arose. "The voice of conscience" is really the voice of our guide advising us. And again this guide is just another soul who we know well who is like us only more advanced.

Last note about angles: There really are angles. They are a race of beings apart from humanity. They have tremendously long lifetimes and serve, in a direct sense, those greater beings who "cause". Throughout history people have reported these beings because, on occasion, one will appear to a person with a "message" or set of instructions (for humanity). It was these rare occasions which resulted in the tradition of "watcher angels". People, being as they are, like to "personalize" spiritual greatness and so the idea of a personal guardian angel was born and persists to this day. Remember that is the inclination of human beings to see universal realities through the lenses of "personality". The guardian "angels" though are really our spirit (friends) guides (other human souls).



I hope this helps...

Hi.

Wanted to thank you for posting these thoughts on the soul. I must say I do not understand all of it, but irregardless I do believe it very possible it contains truth.

Reminds me of a time where upon waking one morning there was a voice of an older man, perhaps the one who has visited in my dream environment. The man was speaking to me in a way about souls, and what happens at the end of life, I was told not to worry too much about such things. When I was aware after waking enough to realize that I had been spoken to, I also realized I had been crying while I awoke as well. A very strange experience and most unexpected. I am not entirely sure what to make of it, but will not forget it for quite a time.

Thank you for posting your thoughts on the subject. It helps to make sense of things.

Take care.

[bartholomew]

Hi.

Wanted to thank you for posting these thoughts on the soul. I must say I do not understand all of it, but irregardless I do believe it very possible it contains truth.

Reminds me of a time where upon waking one morning there was a voice of an older man, perhaps the one who has visited in my dream environment. The man was speaking to me in a way about souls, and what happens at the end of life, I was told not to worry too much about such things. When I was aware after waking enough to realize that I had been spoken to, I also realized I had been crying while I awoke as well. A very strange experience and most unexpected. I am not entirely sure what to make of it, but will not forget it for quite a time.

Thank you for posting your thoughts on the subject. It helps to make sense of things.

Take care.


After she passed my late wife came to visit me twice. These visits, and a couple of others not unlike the one you relate, have added to my store of beliefs. I'm 75 now and believe me the only reason I avoid thoughts of death is that I am working to better secure a financial future for my kids. When a couple more goals are realized I'll be ready to scoot out of here.

Thanks for the response.

James

[MicroMacro]

! On a forum such as this one you will read many different and sometimes opposing ideas. Select the truth which seems best to you and keep it close until something better comes alone.

2. Far too many people make the assumption that our soul is a part of us, stuck inside the body somewhere and that at death it leaves. This is a harmless but very incorrect idea. Our souls are vital and active on their own plane all the time whether or not they have a body on Earth.

3. I want to repeat regarding the fluidity of "truth". Truth changes as we grow in consciousness and wisdom. Consider what a child believes compared to what an intelligent adult believes? A world of difference sometimes but each thinks what they believe is "truth".

Don't get too wound up with all this. Spiritual growth is no more than a long series of realizations, some little, some big, that continue until we are finished with the Earth and leave. You know? Have you ever had an "ah ha" moment where you suddenly understand? This is precisely what I mean and spiritual growth works the same way.

Most of the time when I post I do so as my soul name, Bartholomew. My guide is far too busy with other things to take time out to interact with me. We have that understanding.

James

So - here's the deal-E-O. Years back, I was learning something else - very heavy stuff and I was very into it. And it may or may not correlate to the things you know on a level I don't know about. But I woke up this morning and had to concede that - I don't think I'm very happy with my progress and I'm not sure where that's coming from.

I wish for a big in-my-face moment, and it's not happening in the way I want it to. And in the meantime, I'm taking things people say - yes, things that resonate - but still - second-hand info - and running with them. I don't know how smart that is because I'm not learning directly. This means I can't take responsibility for any of it - and that seems like an important element here.

"Select the truth which seems best to you and keep it close until something better comes alone." That seems like a terribly painful thing to do. To think something is true and then to discover that - no. It wasn't. I only wanted it to be. That's where I am now and it doesn't feel very good. It's confusing.

"3. I want to repeat regarding the fluidity of "truth". Truth changes as we grow in consciousness and wisdom. Consider what a child believes compared to what an intelligent adult believes? A world of difference sometimes but each thinks what they believe is "truth"."

This makes me feel bad - like I should know better. And I feel hesitant to claim that I know anything (though I do know some stuff) but I want to KNOW more and don't.

I used to have a nightmare when I was little - I had it all the time. In the dream, I could see a straight silver cord in front of me pulled to my left and right. My being was in the center of this cord, though the cord was all I could see. And then it began to tie itself into a knot around me. Over and over getting bigger and tighter. And I couldn't get out. The dream woke me up each time. As I got older - late teens/early 20s, I would even feel the sensation of that dream while awake.

Today, I wonder if the knot succeeded in burying me inside it and now I can't see which way is up. I hadn't thought about this dream for years before yesterday. I think I'm a little wound up, James.

A question about souls then since they're outside us. What do they want with people?

[bartholomew]

So - here's the deal-E-O. Years back, I was learning something else - very heavy stuff and I was very into it. And it may or may not correlate to the things you know on a level I don't know about. But I woke up this morning and had to concede that - I don't think I'm very happy with my progress and I'm not sure where that's coming from.

I wish for a big in-my-face moment, and it's not happening in the way I want it to. And in the meantime, I'm taking things people say - yes, things that resonate - but still - second-hand info - and running with them. I don't know how smart that is because I'm not learning directly. This means I can't take responsibility for any of it - and that seems like an important element here.

"Select the truth which seems best to you and keep it close until something better comes alone." That seems like a terribly painful thing to do. To think something is true and then to discover that - no. It wasn't. I only wanted it to be. That's where I am now and it doesn't feel very good. It's confusing.

"3. I want to repeat regarding the fluidity of "truth". Truth changes as we grow in consciousness and wisdom. Consider what a child believes compared to what an intelligent adult believes? A world of difference sometimes but each thinks what they believe is "truth"."

This makes me feel bad - like I should know better. And I feel hesitant to claim that I know anything (though I do know some stuff) but I want to KNOW more and don't.

I used to have a nightmare when I was little - I had it all the time. In the dream, I could see a straight silver cord in front of me pulled to my left and right. My being was in the center of this cord, though the cord was all I could see. And then it began to tie itself into a knot around me. Over and over getting bigger and tighter. And I couldn't get out. The dream woke me up each time. As I got older - late teens/early 20s, I would even feel the sensation of that dream while awake.

Today, I wonder if the knot succeeded in burying me inside it and now I can't see which way is up. I hadn't thought about this dream for years before yesterday. I think I'm a little wound up, James.

A question about souls then since they're outside us. What do they want with people?


The entire phenomenal universe and human souls too are all created as a part of God's expressiveness. The reason, the purpose, is to expand. Yes. God expands. God expresses. It is what God does. In the same way and for the same reasons that an immense cloud of light elements far out in deep interstellar space can condense through gravity, heat up through friction and finally ignite and become a star In order for God (term used for literary convenience) to expand new spiritual creations must be simple and uncomplicated. God does not simply create stars with planets. God creates the beginnings of these and they have to develop. God expresses in the same way. He/She does not simply create more God. The beginnings come first. So creation begins. At a certain point human souls are created. They are created in pure innocence (not in perfection as religions claim) and they begin to grow. Their journey is exceedingly long. It is not enough to simply know things. If it were then souls could simply sit in a classroom like we do at school. They need wisdom, whole and complete, all encompassing and that means projecting themselves to the lowest possible level and starting then doing it the hard way. So human souls come to Earth via there physical forms and then the souls watch and guide the progress. They do this thousands of times until finally the soul has gained enough wisdom that it no longer needs to come to a planet and use a physical form (human being). After that the soul "graduates" from the human stage and goes on to other challenges.

God expresses. What will eventually become "more God" begins as subatomic particles which then join to become the lightest of elements. Here the ethereal plane is used. Long after stars are born. Again this is ethereal plane work. Then planets are formed (sometimes at the same time as the stars but not in our case. Our planets were formed later) Then "life" is begun on a world. Now the ethereal plus the lower part of the astral planes is used. Much later sentient life is born. Now the ethereal plane and the astral plane and parts of the mental planes are used. The process continues. As humans become more complex the higher spirit entities arrive at the planet to help. Now we find the divine plane, the Buddhic plane and the Atmic planes of expression. The human stage of spiritual evolution is only a small part of a very great whole at the end of which is God finding completion through expression. Simple and complex at the same time. Is this the sort of thing we teach children? No. That is why religions concentrate on easy to understand concepts like "be good and have a reward". Do you follow?

We are concerned with the human stage of growth for a soul. Why is a soul interested in physical humans? Easy. It uses them as vehicles of manifestation so that the soul can learn and achieve wisdom through the efforts of the man on Earth. That's in in a nutshell.

I am of the opinion based on everything that you've said that it is time for you to develop your own source, your own conscious contact in the spirit world. When you do this your need for others will greatly diminish. After you do this then read and listen to others. Books and on forums like this one. You will find that you are able to make judgements for yourself because what you read will pass through the filter of your own soul. And you will be answered in the form of continual streams of understanding. Will you consider this?

There are meditative practices which you can begin right away that will help you to open the appropriate doors. As I said before, based on what I read I think it's time for to begin to move it up a notch and start doing things for yourself.

Give it some thought. Or.... you can forget about all things spiritual. If they cause discontent they are not worth having around. Either way you will advance. That I promise you.

The above is not too complex for you. But finding answers through other people is not easy. Much easier for you to wing and open your own channel to the spirit world. Don't answer quickly. Let it all soak in. Write your thoughts on paper. This is a very effective way to begin.

I did not proof the above. There might be typos.

[MicroMacro]

We are concerned with the human stage of growth for a soul. Why is a soul interested in physical humans? Easy. It uses them as vehicles of manifestation so that the soul can learn and achieve wisdom through the efforts of the man on Earth.

I am of the opinion based on everything that you've said that it is time for you to develop your own source, your own conscious contact in the spirit world. ... Will you consider this?

There are meditative practices which you can begin right away that will help you to open the appropriate doors.

Give it some thought. Or.... you can forget about all things spiritual. If they cause discontent they are not worth having around. Either way you will advance. That I promise you.



I think I need to get busy doing. Not busy work - just moving meditation maybe. I can hardly forget about all things spiritual - swells are happening.
:)

[Greenslade]

So - here's the deal-E-O. Years back, I was learning something else - very heavy stuff and I was very into it. And it may or may not correlate to the things you know on a level I don't know about. But I woke up this morning and had to concede that - I don't think I'm very happy with my progress and I'm not sure where that's coming from.Most people don't ask themselves the hard questions like "What the hell am I doing?" Spiritual development good, cram head full of knowledge, rise to high-vibrational being, contemplate navel all day. What is Spirituality to you, personally? Not someone else's definition, yours. What do you want to get out of it, what are you getting out of it?

I wish for a big in-my-face moment, and it's not happening in the way I want it to. And in the meantime, I'm taking things people say - yes, things that resonate - but still - second-hand info - and running with them. I don't know how smart that is because I'm not learning directly. This means I can't take responsibility for any of it - and that seems like an important element here. Everything you read in Spirituality is someone ele's knowledge/beliefs.

"Select the truth which seems best to you and keep it close until something better comes alone." The truth is relative to one's own agenda.

"3. I want to repeat regarding the fluidity of "truth". Truth changes as we grow in consciousness and wisdom. Consider what a child believes compared to what an intelligent adult believes? A world of difference sometimes but each thinks what they believe is "truth".The truth expressed becomes a lie.

I used to have a nightmare when I was little - I had it all the time. In the dream, I could see a straight silver cord in front of me pulled to my left and right. My being was in the center of this cord, though the cord was all I could see. And then it began to tie itself into a knot around me. Over and over getting bigger and tighter. And I couldn't get out. The dream woke me up each time. As I got older - late teens/early 20s, I would even feel the sensation of that dream while awake.

Today, I wonder if the knot succeeded in burying me inside it and now I can't see which way is up. I hadn't thought about this dream for years before yesterday. I think I'm a little wound up, James.Perhaps not wound up, torn between this and that. Dreams are often our subconscious minds working things through in its own abstract ways. You're being pulled two different ways and you are at the centre.

Just in case you missed it, you are at the centre.

[janielee]

Far too often in our searching we will seek a desired result directly, at the beginning of our quest, prematurely. What makes this a difficult method is that it constitutes using desire to achieve things which are contrary to desire. So often we end up going round in circles getting frustrated and wondering if any of this is real or even an interesting dream...

I'll try to make this short and to the point. What I will say is based on my own experiences and also from many, many years of listening to others. I ask those who may be offended by what I say to pardon me in advance.

Forget about chakras. Forget about kundalini. Don't fret over knowing your guide. The reason I say these things is not because there is nothing to be gained but because of what I claim in my first paragraph above. How much sense does it make to use emotional energies to discover the high realms? This sort of thing has been part of the human spiritual behavioural package for thousands of years. Yet who around us has gained anything? There's a better way.

If the goal is to know your guide. If you want to settle and adjust your chakras and if the final act of raising the dragon (kundalini) is what you strive for then go the the level of spirit wherein positive control is easily possible. This is the purpose and reason for the quiet meditation of the Buddha. It is an exercise in pure mind, not low desire based mind but the high mind of our souls. This is where our guides are.

True meditation allows the student to raise him/her self above the Earth plane and all that is in it. Consider this. Our chakras are ethereal constructs. Their business is to interconnect and provide energy channels to and from the various lower spiritual realms when they are below the solar plexus and to the higher when they are above. When any part of the body is active the corresponding chakra will be too. Others may be quiet and inactive. The idea of a chakra being blocked originates in the fact that as they, as a unit of 7 major and 42 minor each interact with a different point on the body. It is interesting here to note that this is the reason acupuncture works. The therapist directly interacts with the body's energy grid which is only the lower correspondence to the higher. It is the wheels of ethereal energy which provoke the body through electricity. Chakras are not commonly blocked although we may think otherwise. Most often this belief is based on a wrong diagnosis by the worker. What do I mean? Well let's go back to the first paragraph again and be reminded about how desire and it's brother expectations plays a part. It has been my experience that a chakra only is negatively affected when the body is in extreme distress. If this is the case do we manipulate the chakra or do we heal the person and rid her/him of the irritant?

The single best method for the student to advance is by first learning and practicing a true form of meditation; one which does not involve chakras or kundalini or any other such thing. Where do we live? Is there a buddhist monastery nearby? Go there. Sit quietly and find that the entire world no longer troubles you. What is here? Just peace. Nothing else. Finally we find the beginning of a path which will never mislead. The atmosphere of the temple is quiet, generous in it's safety, completely without danger but it is still. It seems to be not moving. Why is this? Because the world and it's worries is outside. Those energies cannot enter and this is no accident. It is a force created by the use of high mind by those who live and work in this holy place.

So often we hear. "I have a blocked chakra". It is possible to use our hands to grab a chakra of another and move it back to where is supposed to be thus removing the perceived blockage (which is really a mislocation) I have done this. But is there wisdom in this? What is learned? How does any of this result in even a small amount of spiritual growth for the person?

Back to high meditation. The single purpose of learning to meditate properly is nothing to do with any below the solar plexus energies but with the mind. The advanced student is so not because she/he spent years meditating on the lower body centers but because he/she went higher in the beginning. This is what a Buddhist monk and nun learn as disciples. Their success is the reason that we find such comfort and solace in a temple. Learn what they know and carry with you wherever you go the strength which answers all questions.

Our souls, our guides are fellow souls who are a bit more advanced than we are, reside on the high mental plane. These are the energies present in a Buddhist temple. We can spend decades fretting over chakras and kundalini and other things or we can learn the high meditation in the beginning. If the goal is to acquire wisdom. Remember that when we leave this Earth we return not to "spirit" but to the mental plane of our souls. Here there are no physical, ethereal or astral fires to pester us. Wouldn't it be smart to live now as though we were already there? We can leave these lower energies behind right now and live as though heaven really is on Earth.

At the beginning of this post I alluded to the student in distress over such things as blocked chakras. For a practitioner to make needed adjustments manually will never be effective for very long because the subject has not changed. There are many who suggest that a certain "process" can heal. They are beguiled. They mean well but they themselves are not advanced enough to understand what they really are doing. The student will find that after they learn the proper high mental techniques of meditation he/she will no longer suffer. Their bodies have become quiet and serene.

The above is meant in all sincerity. If we're going to be spiritual lets be smart and efficient about it. Most of common spiritual practice involves the astral plane. Since we all live on that plane in the first place why waste time going there in spiritual practice? Those who have learned the high art of meditation find that they develop strong connections to their own souls, the mental plane and above, and never are concerned about their guides because they, themselves, have created a permanent channel, a permanent communion, with them.

Last comment. Kundalini will never be raised by the person who desires it. The very act of wanting is counter to what is required. He or she who has achieved is never bothered by maladjusted chakras. When the petals of the crown are opened wide the body is silent. Now the kundalini raises in the natural way. Once this occurs the test is passed. The man/woman is no longer troubled. He/she has learned.

Wow! Thank you bartholomew - I really needed that, have been so depressed lately. This is wonderful. Thank you again.

[janielee]

James: Forgive the late reply. Bartholomew means the lower desires but they are not separated from lower mind. If we can manage to quiet our minds it is our lower mind which is quieted. In this condition our higher, soul, mind is now free to be dominant. Any meditation form which will result in this is worthwhile. If some ancillary method such as acupuncture is used all the better.

If the lower mind is quiet(ER) but not quietened, does this allow the higher mind to now work?

Does the higher mind still employ thought to think and plan?

I'm feeling a little lost as you may know. Thanks for any guidance.

PS About Buddhist temples, yes there is much peace - is this something felt by many people? :smile:

[bartholomew]

If the lower mind is quiet(ER) but not quietened, does this allow the higher mind to now work?

Does the higher mind still employ thought to think and plan?

I'm feeling a little lost as you may know. Thanks for any guidance.

PS About Buddhist temples, yes there is much peace - is this something felt by many people? :smile:


There are two words which will help here. Rational and Intuit. The lower mind is the rational one. The higher mind is where we find intuition. The rational mind is the vital asset for matters of the Earth. Intuition leads us away, finally to the stars. A closer look at what happens reveals something curious. When we reach higher in meditation we do not abandon lower mind. No. We put it in second place just for awhile. When we call out and join with higher realms through the mechanism of intuition we merely tell the lower mind that it is to tend to daily matters in a quiet and deliberate way. Here are a couple of examples:

Albert Einstein was known to be forgetful. He didn't get haircuts or wear socks because those requirements interfered with what he really wanted to do in life. He resented having to leave the intuitional paths for even short times. His lower rational mind was pretty much in second place. The higher, intuition, dominated.

An engineer dreaming of something new is really an engineer using intuition. She or he uses intuition to discover ideas which might be new to accepted practice. In this quest there may be impatience or resentfulness directed at those who interrupt work. In this case high mind is active but the emotional body is not as quiet as it might be.

An artist can likewise be unsettled. Some of these go up and down, lower mind to higher, in sometimes an erratic way. Very often, in frustration, attempts will be made to artifically bump the focus out of the lower and up into the higher so that results can be realized. Very often these can be very emotional types. They want to live only in the creative and perhaps resent the mundane. Some of these people so strongly resent the external world that they avoid it all all costs.

A business person is a good example of one who has learned better how to use the disciplined approach. She or he will use intuition to go far away where ideas which will then be used to develop a business plan. In so doing the ability to intuit market trends of the future and perhaps how they can be influenced by creative thinking will be discovered. These types sometimes seem cold and detached. Sometimes they are criticized as being out of touch with ordinary people. The quest for the rewards of creative thinking can be addictive. Sometimes this is what happens.

In all the above examples we find ordinary human beings using low and high mind in various ratios, day in and day out sometimes in a disciplined way but sometimes in an erratic way too. These are the experiences that souls come to Earth to learn about. In the spiritual realms these sorts of things cannot be experienced because it is not possible to meet conflict for long enough to develop the winding path which leads to the desired end. Here on Earth we are free to mix it up kind of like trying on clothes in a shop until we find something that suits. Here is another thought.

Read again all the examples given above. Now consider another thing. Often just be fore the end of a life the person may have decided that the things in life that had real value were right in front of them all the while. Some rich folk have been known to give it all away before passing. Some have walked away seeking the solitary life. Others rush to illusive ends so fast that finally they realize that although they have much they lack more. They wonder why. No matter what the ending might be there are little rewards of wisdom gained that wait like little presents behind a tree bole or beneath a rock waiting to be discovered. Then, like a child hunting Easter eggs at a spring party the excitement of discovery captivates. And we remember what we've found!

We all engage in all these things before we learn. This is the business of multiple lifetimes. We just don't remember. But we do also learn that no matter what we leave it all behind when we pass. Well that's not quite right. We take with us our store of wisdom which is the very stuff of spiritual growth. This goes directly to our souls and colours them in fresh designs.

I'm a little off topic again. Bartholomew likes to get carried away. I have to stop him sometimes. Let's go back to rational and intuition. In our monastery garden we find peace and quiet. What does it feel like? We are captivated by the knowledge of the the turmoils of the outside being prohibited. All is quiet. We are in out intuitive minds if only for a while. Supposing our bodies tell us it's time to go to the toilet? We use lower rational thinking for this. This is a cute way to say that as we going along we use both high and low minds depending on what the matter at hand is. Because of our animal natures using lower rational mind comes easier than the higher. We don't have to meditate for this. But if we want to go high no matter the reason, art, business, science, engineering, a preacher preparing a sermon or anything else. We find better success is realized. Very often these can be very emotional types. They want to live only in the lower. We learn to shift upwards to where intuition is. This is the everyday reason for high meditation. We do not leave the Earth until it is our time but we do well to learn the skills which allows us to manage the various paths while here.

She or he who has learned the disciplined approach to life has acquired the ability to succeed no matter what. This is what meditation is all about.

Now go back to the examples given above of personality types and how they exist in both the high and lower minds. We can note that, in general terms, to be creative is to experience conflict which then has to be overcome. Is this always true? Yes. Until we learn. This is also the business of incarnation. Go back to the Buddhist monastery and watch the monks or nuns in their daily routines. How lucky they are to be beyond such agitations as the artist or engineer or businessperson. Or are they? Perhaps not. The single greatest difference between they and us is that they have learned the art of the disciplined approach to living. And this is precisely what properly meditation is all about. Learn this and everything else in life will fall into place.

There is a universal law which embodies the process that we are talking about here. It is Harmony Through Conflict. Through the conflicts of Earth living we eventually find the Harmony of wisdom. We then take this as we leave naked as when we arrived, out of the world for a well earned rest. Note: This is not really a law. It is a ray of attribute which comes to the Earth from the Great Ones who maintain our galaxy through, focused by, constellations of stars. The study of esoteric astrology will reveal more to he or she who is interested in how these things work.

People will react in different ways to the serenity of a temple monastery. Some will be attuned and smile in recognition. Others will find the emptiness of apparent lack of purpose. Others may find only confusion because their vibrations are too low. A very few will be reminded of the more permanent home between lifetimes.

Janilee I hope you find something of value in this answer. I'm so mixed up now that I am no longer sure if I even answered your question. ha ha.... James.

[JustBe]

There are two words which will help here. Rational and Intuit. The lower mind is the rational one. The higher mind is where we find intuition. The rational mind is the vital asset for matters of the Earth. Intuition leads us away, finally to the stars. A closer look at what happens reveals something curious. When we reach higher in meditation we do not abandon lower mind. No. We put it in second place just for awhile. When we call out and join with higher realms through the mechanism of intuition we merely tell the lower mind that it is to tend to daily matters in a quiet and deliberate way. Here are a couple of examples:

Albert Einstein was known to be forgetful. He didn't get haircuts or wear socks because those requirements interfered with what he really wanted to do in life. He resented having to leave the intuitional paths for even short times. His lower rational mind was pretty much in second place. The higher, intuition, dominated.

An engineer dreaming of something new is really an engineer using intuition. She or he uses intuition to discover ideas which might be new to accepted practice. In this quest there may be impatience or resentfulness directed at those who interrupt work. In this case high mind is active but the emotional body is not as quiet as it might be.

An artist can likewise be unsettled. Some of these go up and down, lower mind to higher, in sometimes an erratic way. Very often, in frustration, attempts will be made to artifically bump the focus out of the lower and up into the higher so that results can be realized. Very often these can be very emotional types. They want to live only in the creative and perhaps resent the mundane. Some of these people so strongly resent the external world that they avoid it all all costs.

A business person is a good example of one who has learned better how to use the disciplined approach. She or he will use intuition to go far away where ideas which will then be used to develop a business plan. In so doing the ability to intuit market trends of the future and perhaps how they can be influenced by creative thinking will be discovered. These types sometimes seem cold and detached. Sometimes they are criticized as being out of touch with ordinary people. The quest for the rewards of creative thinking can be addictive. Sometimes this is what happens.

In all the above examples we find ordinary human beings using low and high mind in various ratios, day in and day out sometimes in a disciplined way but sometimes in an erratic way too. These are the experiences that souls come to Earth to learn about. In the spiritual realms these sorts of things cannot be experienced because it is not possible to meet conflict for long enough to develop the winding path which leads to the desired end. Here on Earth we are free to mix it up kind of like trying on clothes in a shop until we find something that suits. Here is another thought.

Read again all the examples given above. Now consider another thing. Often just be fore the end of a life the person may have decided that the things in life that had real value were right in front of them all the while. Some rich folk have been known to give it all away before passing. Some have walked away seeking the solitary life. Others rush to illusive ends so fast that finally they realize that although they have much they lack more. They wonder why. No matter what the ending might be there are little rewards of wisdom gained that wait like little presents behind a tree bole or beneath a rock waiting to be discovered. Then, like a child hunting Easter eggs at a spring party the excitement of discovery captivates.

We all engage in all these things before we learn. This is the business of multiple lifetimes. We just don't remember. But we do also learn that no matter what we leave it all behind when we pass. Well that's not quite right. We take with us our store of wisdom which is the very stuff of spiritual growth. This goes directly to our souls and colours them in fresh designs.

I'm a little off topic again. Bartholomew likes to get carried away. I have to stop him sometimes. Let's go back to rational and intuition. In our monastery garden we find peace and quiet. What does it feel like? We are captivated by the knowledge of the the turmoils of the outside being prohibited. All is quiet. We are in out intuitive minds if only for a while. Supposing our bodies tell us it's time to go to the toilet? We use lower rational thinking for this. This is a cute way to say that as we going along we use both high and low minds depending on what the matter at hand is. Because of our animal natures using lower rational mind comes easier than the higher. We don't have to meditate for this. But if we want to go high no matter the reason, art, business, science, engineering, a preacher preparing a sermon or anything else. We find better success is realized. Very often these can be very emotional types. They want to live only in the ter we learn to shift upwards to where intuition is. This is the everyday reason for high meditation. We do not leave the Earth until it is our time but we do well to learn the skills which allows us to manage the various paths while here.

She or he who has learned the disciplined approach to life has acquired the ability to succeed no matter what. This is what meditation is all about.

Now go back to the examples given above of personality types and how they exist in both the high and lower minds. We can note that, in general terms, to be creative is to experience conflict which then has to be overcome. Is this always true? Yes. Until we learn. This is also the business of incarnation. Go back to the Buddhist monastery and watch the monks or nuns in their daily routines. How lucky they are to be beyond such agitations as the artist or engineer or businessperson. Or are they? Perhaps not. The single greatest difference between they and us is that they have learned the art of the disciplined approach to living. And this is precisely what properly meditation is all about. Learn this and everything else in life will fall into place.

There is a universal law which embodies the process that we are talking about here. It is Harmony Through Conflict. Through the conflicts of Earth living we eventually find the Harmony of wisdom. We then take this as we leave naked as when we arrived, out of the world for a well earned rest. Note: This is not really a law. It is a ray of attribute which comes to the Earth from the Great Ones who maintain our galaxy through, focused by, constellations of stars. The study of esoteric astrology will reveal more to he or she who is interested in how these things work.

People will react in different ways to the serenity of a temple monastery. Some will be attuned and smile in recognition. Others will find the emptiness of apparent lack of purpose. Others may find only confusion because their vibrations are too low. A very few will be reminded of the more permanent home between lifetimes.

Janilee I hope you find something of value in this answer. I'm so mixed up now that I am no longer sure if I even answered your question. ha ha.... James.



Makes for great reading and perfect sense as one.

Thankyou.

[janielee]

Janilee I hope you find something of value in this answer. I'm so mixed up now that I am no longer sure if I even answered your question. ha ha.... James.



bartholomew :smile:

James :smile:

Not only helpful, but extraordinarily helpful -- thanks very much for taking the time and energy to share that.

I was reflecting a little on this recently, and thought this is where "as above, so below" or maybe why "inside" and outside is correlated.

I mean in terms of higher and lower mind (using this terminology in the context of this conversation - because I have also heard it said "one mind")

The "lower" mind - isn't it an echo or manifestation or shadow light figures of the upper?

Bless!

[janielee]

do you think it's possible to stay primarily in the "higher"? What about volume of thoughts, does this matter? Only if so inclined. More curious than anything significant. Thanks :smile:

[bartholomew]

An easy way to visualize the difference 'tween the two general areas of mind is this:

Consider the evolutionary forces of the planet. Remember first that consciousness is not a result of anything but a principle in itself. A grain of sand has a degree of consciousness. A plant has a greater amount. Insects have a bit more but lack self consciousness. So too with most reptiles. Birds are much more aware than most of us give them credit for. Mammals are the smartest of all animals. Both birds and mammals have a limited ability for rational thought. When on top of their form they are able to visualize what they want.... sometimes. But in this the built in instincts play a part.

What is all this anyway? Is it "mind"? Now look at the subtle planes of the Earth. Hard physical, liquid, gaseous, ethereal, astral (emotional), mind both high and low and so on up through the planes and sub planes. (each plane has seven sub planes).

As physical evolution on the Earth proceeds the ability to function in a new form is in part dependent on the ability to connect to a slightly higher sub plane in the world's spiritual sheaths. The plane of mind for instance has lower and higher areas. When an animal is thinking it is only because it's physical apparatus has evolved to the point that it is capable of functionally being in sync with the lower mental plane. This is what rational thought is. I want this or that. Tomorrow we will.... etc etc. This is rational thinking.

Now go a little higher. Certain of advanced animals on Earth are better at thinking than others. On top of the heap are humans who truly excel in this area. We can plan and visualize what we want and then develop a plan which will hopefully bring success. This is what it means to be a human. Somewhere along the way though another aspect shows itself to be real. At some point in thinking we find that we can stop and be quiet for a moment resulting in ideas coming to us. Ideas and thoughts that we did not consider before because they did not result from something everyday that we were aware of. So... we find that we are able to transcend rational thinking and dream. Here I mean the day dreaming of imagination. Not the ordinary dreaming during sleep that all mammals are capable of. This is an introduction to the higher mind. We humans have become adept at it. We have developed the ability to bring ourselves into sync with a higher level of mind. Now go one step further and consider the woman or the man who deliberately "wills" him or herself to "go" to where imagination comes from. We do this using our brains each of which has a small area which allows such connections. This lower brain mind now is blended, coupled by will, with the higher abstract mind. Now the human has succeeded in becoming functional on the higher end of the mental plane which surrounds the Earth. Go a step beyond and find for company those humans who history knows as prophets. They connect to yet higher planes. Try this yourself and find that as you dream on high the lower mind will try to add things to what is dreamed about. This is how distortions of high truths come to Earth. We have to learn to discriminate to avoid these.

Do see in this anything that makes sense to you? It's all very straightforward and almost literal. There is no magic in play with higher mind. It exists by leave of those great souls who watch over the Earth. All we have to do is to learn to connect with and use it. Hopefully for good.

I have to force myself to stop here. What do you think?

Last note: Those great ones are, in turn, connected to yet higher realms. They do not originate consciousness. They are participants just like the rest of us. The ultimate source? The greatest of all? We humans are not given to know this. We have to settle for metaphors. But each time we advance we sweep aside a little more fog and gain a higher level of...... contact.

James/Bartholomew




bartholomew :smile:

James :smile:

Not only helpful, but extraordinarily helpful -- thanks very much for taking the time and energy to share that.

I was reflecting a little on this recently, and thought this is where "as above, so below" or maybe why "inside" and outside is correlated.

I mean in terms of higher and lower mind (using this terminology in the context of this conversation - because I have also heard it said "one mind")

The "lower" mind - isn't it an echo or manifestation or shadow light figures of the upper?

Bless!

[janielee]

Do see in this anything that makes sense to you? It's all very straightforward and almost literal. There is no magic in play with higher mind. It exists by leave of those great souls who watch over the Earth. All we have to do is to learn to connect with and use it. Hopefully for good.

I have to force myself to stop here. What do you think?


"oh don't stop!" :biggrin:

I think this makes sense, at least I am "sensing" as I read the areas of mind you speak about.

You say hopefully the connection will be used "for good". Can it be otherwise at this level?

Isn't connection at "higher realms" commensurate with natural benevolence - if it were not so, I don't imagine that connection would actually be possible.

Thoughts, bartholomew? :smile:

JL

[bartholomew]

do you think it's possible to stay primarily in the "higher"? What about volume of thoughts, does this matter? Only if so inclined. More curious than anything significant. Thanks :smile:


To stay in higher mind? No. The Earth would pull us back. The body has to remain with the Earth. There are safeguards. The dreamers of history, the artists or scientists for instance, would often resent the small periods of "death" that were know as sleeping. They did not want to be interrupted by these. So longs as are in these bodies we have to nourish them. Plenty of time when we arrive back in the spirit worlds for pure abstract thinking. After I pass I will rest a bit but then I fully intend to go off and have some adventures of discovery in our galaxy. I want to see what's out there. Better yet I want to understand what I find. But I can wait. A couple more years.

[janielee]

To stay in higher mind? No. The Earth would pull us back. The body has to remain with the Earth. There are safeguards. The dreamers of history, the artists or scientists for instance, would often resent the small periods of "death" that were know as sleeping. They did not want to be interrupted by these. So longs as are in these bodies we have to nourish them. Plenty of time when we arrive back in the spirit worlds for pure abstract thinking. After I pass I will rest a bit but then I fully intend to go off and have some adventures of discovery in our galaxy. I want to see what's out there. Better yet I want to understand what I find. But I can wait. A couple more years.

Interesting. Thank you bartholomew.

[bartholomew]

'The'??

You talk as if there is only one spiritual path. As people/beings are not all the same, their 'paths' are not all the same.

Don't get me wrong, meditation is an effective tool for spiritual advancement. However, it is not the 'best' tool for everyone especially at every stage of their development.



Each of us has our own path which is suited to ourselves. There are many modifiers here but astrological considerations play a great part.

[janielee]

How does higher mind (if if "conceives" of a sense of things) get things done? Wouldn't it HAVE to be via "lower mind"? Doesn't higher mind NEED lower mind/direct lower mind? Is lower mind very useful in some ways? Thoughts...ideas :(

[bartholomew]

I visualize the general concept of "mind" thusly:

First of all everything that exists on Earth is a lower manifestation of what already is in spirit. That is to say the various planes which surround the Earth provide "livingness" to the planet. Without these our world would a cold, dead rock.

One of these planes is the mental plane. It is just above the emotional (astral). It, like all the others, has seven subplanes. The lower parts of the mental plane are concerned with rational, everyday thinking. The higher end provides the ability for abstract thought.

Many animals and humans too use the lower subplanes. We are more capable than our less evolved brothers but this ability is none the less only just a bit removed from, for instance, a great ape. There are no animals that are capable of abstract thought. They cannot imagine high spiritual concepts. They are not yet evolved enough. But what is this "evolution" anyway?

Our brains are made up of lots of different areas as any medical student knows. Much of the brain is almost identical to that of an ape. But we have something that is different. There is a part of our brain which is concerned with "higher thinking".

When we think in rational terms we are using a certain part of our brain to connect to the corresponding lower part of the mental plane. The physical brain "learns". When we think in abstract terms the brain is also involved. Through a specific area we are able to connect to the higher subplanes of the mental plane, cognate and bring back what we have discovered in the form of "imagination". In any kind of thinking different parts of the brain are involved. We, unlike our animal friends, have the brain capacity to connect to the high mental plane so we are able to "dream and wonder and plan etc etc...". Animals do not have this ability to connect because their brains are not as complex... so they think in a different way.

Now you may say "what if we die"? How does this affect thinking? After we leave these physical bodies we are no longer troubled with having to transcend the physical by using the ability of the brain. We are now freer and above such limitations. We now can more easily send our consciousnesses to many more places with ease.

Every human being is put together in this way. Some are more capable than others. There are relatively ignorant folks who have the ability to "channel" higher places and bring back things that amaze. This is because the part of the brain that enables this is not concerned with any temporal knowledge. All the schooling in the world will not make a person psychic if they are not born to it. See?

Try visualizing the mental plane in seven levels, each a bit different than the others, then find rational thinking near the bottom and abstract thinking near the top. Then ask... which are we capable of contacting and using?

Now think about some people who are special. Occasionally we find a woman or man who is borderline functional in everyday ways but a near genius in others. Idiot savants. How does this happen? The brain is in some way limited in rational thinking but the other parts which enable high abstract connection are very well developed. This is what is happening with these people. Using their ability to go to where almost anything on the Earth is easily reduced to (often visual) elements (building blocks) of logic, information is brought back often in the form of probabilities. This is the reason they can achieve what they do. There really is nothing mysterious about it except to those who do not believe in the spiritual planes which "support" and give "vitality" to the Earth. If psychologists knew about the spiritual worlds they would be able to reduce phenomena like these to simple terms. But they don't. They think only in terms of the brain so they end up typically saying "we don't know". Someday this will change.... Someday.

Does this help?



bartholomew :smile:

James :smile:

Not only helpful, but extraordinarily helpful -- thanks very much for taking the time and energy to share that.

I was reflecting a little on this recently, and thought this is where "as above, so below" or maybe why "inside" and outside is correlated.

I mean in terms of higher and lower mind (using this terminology in the context of this conversation - because I have also heard it said "one mind")

The "lower" mind - isn't it an echo or manifestation or shadow light figures of the upper?

Bless!

[neil]

I visualize the general concept of "mind" thusly:

First of all everything that exists on Earth is a lower manifestation of what already is in spirit. That is to say the various planes which surround the Earth provide "livingness" to the planet. Without these our world would a cold, dead rock.

One of these planes is the mental plane. It is just above the emotional (astral). It, like all the others, has seven subplanes. The lower parts of the mental plane are concerned with rational, everyday thinking. The higher end provides the ability for abstract thought.

Many animals and humans too use the lower subplanes. We are more capable than our less evolved brothers but this ability is none the less only just a bit removed from, for instance, a great ape. There are no animals that are capable of abstract thought. They cannot imagine high spiritual concepts. They are not yet evolved enough. But what is this "evolution" anyway?

Our brains are made up of lots of different areas as any medical student knows. Much of the brain is almost identical to that of an ape. But we have something that is different. There is a part of our brain which is concerned with "higher thinking".

When we think in rational terms we are using a certain part of our brain to connect to the corresponding lower part of the mental plane. The physical brain "learns". When we think in abstract terms the brain is also involved. Through a specific area we are able to connect to the higher subplanes of the mental plane, cognate and bring back what we have discovered in the form of "imagination". In any kind of thinking different parts of the brain are involved. We, unlike our animal friends, have the brain capacity to connect to the high mental plane so we are able to "dream and wonder and plan etc etc...". Animals do not have this ability to connect because their brains are not as complex... so they think in a different way.

Now you may say "what if we die"? How does this affect thinking? After we leave these physical bodies we are no longer troubled with having to transcend the physical by using the ability of the brain. We are now freer and above such limitations. We now can more easily send our consciousnesses to many more places with ease.

Every human being is put together in this way. Some are more capable than others. There are relatively ignorant folks who have the ability to "channel" higher places and bring back things that amaze. This is because the part of the brain that enables this is not concerned with any temporal knowledge. All the schooling in the world will not make a person psychic if they are not born to it. See?

Try visualizing the mental plane in seven levels, each a bit different than the others, then find rational thinking near the bottom and abstract thinking near the top. Then ask... which are we capable of contacting and using?

Now think about some people who are special. Occasionally we find a woman or man who is borderline functional in everyday ways but a near genius in others. Idiot savants. How does this happen? The brain is in some way limited in rational thinking but the other parts which enable high abstract connection are very well developed. This is what is happening with these people. Using their ability to go to where almost anything on the Earth is easily reduced to (often visual) elements (building blocks) of logic, information is brought back often in the form of probabilities. This is the reason they can achieve what they do. There really is nothing mysterious about it except to those who do not believe in the spiritual planes which "support" and give "vitality" to the Earth. If psychologists knew about the spiritual worlds they would be able to reduce phenomena like these to simple terms. But they don't. They think only in terms of the brain so they end up typically saying "we don't know". Someday this will change.... Someday.

Does this help?

bartholomew...are these thoughts & beliefs about the brain that are spoken of in this post, formed from earthly observations, or given over to you from spiritual beings.

[janielee]

Does this help?

Thanks for the information, I'm just feeling pretty low today. Imagination etc. - it's not easy to "implement"

Recently I was in a job where I actually tried hard - and wanted it - and yet I failed. Never had that happen before. So worried about that and what it means. Life.

:hug3:

[running]

Far too often in our searching we will seek a desired result directly, at the beginning of our quest, prematurely. What makes this a difficult method is that it constitutes using desire to achieve things which are contrary to desire. So often we end up going round in circles getting frustrated and wondering if any of this is real or even an interesting dream...

I'll try to make this short and to the point. What I will say is based on my own experiences and also from many, many years of listening to others. I ask those who may be offended by what I say to pardon me in advance.

Forget about chakras. Forget about kundalini. Don't fret over knowing your guide. The reason I say these things is not because there is nothing to be gained but because of what I claim in my first paragraph above. How much sense does it make to use emotional energies to discover the high realms? This sort of thing has been part of the human spiritual behavioural package for thousands of years. Yet who around us has gained anything? There's a better way.

If the goal is to know your guide. If you want to settle and adjust your chakras and if the final act of raising the dragon (kundalini) is what you strive for then go the the level of spirit wherein positive control is easily possible. This is the purpose and reason for the quiet meditation of the Buddha. It is an exercise in pure mind, not low desire based mind but the high mind of our souls. This is where our guides are.

True meditation allows the student to raise him/her self above the Earth plane and all that is in it. Consider this. Our chakras are ethereal constructs. Their business is to interconnect and provide energy channels to and from the various lower spiritual realms when they are below the solar plexus and to the higher when they are above. When any part of the body is active the corresponding chakra will be too. Others may be quiet and inactive. The idea of a chakra being blocked originates in the fact that as they, as a unit of 7 major and 42 minor each interact with a different point on the body. It is interesting here to note that this is the reason acupuncture works. The therapist directly interacts with the body's energy grid which is only the lower correspondence to the higher. It is the wheels of ethereal energy which provoke the body through electricity. Chakras are not commonly blocked although we may think otherwise. Most often this belief is based on a wrong diagnosis by the worker. What do I mean? Well let's go back to the first paragraph again and be reminded about how desire and it's brother expectations plays a part. It has been my experience that a chakra only is negatively affected when the body is in extreme distress. If this is the case do we manipulate the chakra or do we heal the person and rid her/him of the irritant?

The single best method for the student to advance is by first learning and practicing a true form of meditation; one which does not involve chakras or kundalini or any other such thing. Where do we live? Is there a buddhist monastery nearby? Go there. Sit quietly and find that the entire world no longer troubles you. What is here? Just peace. Nothing else. Finally we find the beginning of a path which will never mislead. The atmosphere of the temple is quiet, generous in it's safety, completely without danger but it is still. It seems to be not moving. Why is this? Because the world and it's worries is outside. Those energies cannot enter and this is no accident. It is a force created by the use of high mind by those who live and work in this holy place.

So often we hear. "I have a blocked chakra". It is possible to use our hands to grab a chakra of another and move it back to where is supposed to be thus removing the perceived blockage (which is really a mislocation) I have done this. But is there wisdom in this? What is learned? How does any of this result in even a small amount of spiritual growth for the person?

Back to high meditation. The single purpose of learning to meditate properly is nothing to do with any below the solar plexus energies but with the mind. The advanced student is so not because she/he spent years meditating on the lower body centers but because he/she went higher in the beginning. This is what a Buddhist monk and nun learn as disciples. Their success is the reason that we find such comfort and solace in a temple. Learn what they know and carry with you wherever you go the strength which answers all questions.

Our souls, our guides are fellow souls who are a bit more advanced than we are, reside on the high mental plane. These are the energies present in a Buddhist temple. We can spend decades fretting over chakras and kundalini and other things or we can learn the high meditation in the beginning. If the goal is to acquire wisdom. Remember that when we leave this Earth we return not to "spirit" but to the mental plane of our souls. Here there are no physical, ethereal or astral fires to pester us. Wouldn't it be smart to live now as though we were already there? We can leave these lower energies behind right now and live as though heaven really is on Earth.

At the beginning of this post I alluded to the student in distress over such things as blocked chakras. For a practitioner to make needed adjustments manually will never be effective for very long because the subject has not changed. There are many who suggest that a certain "process" can heal. They are beguiled. They mean well but they themselves are not advanced enough to understand what they really are doing. The student will find that after they learn the proper high mental techniques of meditation he/she will no longer suffer. Their bodies have become quiet and serene.

The above is meant in all sincerity. If we're going to be spiritual lets be smart and efficient about it. Most of common spiritual practice involves the astral plane. Since we all live on that plane in the first place why waste time going there in spiritual practice? Those who have learned the high art of meditation find that they develop strong connections to their own souls, the mental plane and above, and never are concerned about their guides because they, themselves, have created a permanent channel, a permanent communion, with them.

Last comment. Kundalini will never be raised by the person who desires it. The very act of wanting is counter to what is required. He or she who has achieved is never bothered by maladjusted chakras. When the petals of the crown are opened wide the body is silent. Now the kundalini raises in the natural way. Once this occurs the test is passed. The man/woman is no longer troubled. He/she has learned.

not one to get offended but also speak my mind. my experience much different

through desire the magic can happen. putting everything on the line for it. there are practices such as shaktipat, going into trance, releasing of emotions, pranayama, and yes meditation to. while having a goal in mind never was an issue for me. that has been my experience.

for me i simply used emotions to lift myself to the bliss and silece by releasing what was stuck. done through intuitive feeling. for me was more effective than the practices that people generaly know of. not even comparable. it was more about finding what was stuck and releasing it. in doing so was like going into a trance like state full of bliss and silence. which by design dissolves and removes what was once stuck.

in doing so along with intense exercise, meditation, and so on. over time. from the experince of of bliss and silence. the coming and going of it. to beyond the coming and going of it. beyond is when there is nothing you can do to not be swimming in its joy and silence. once in that. its power is beyond what is going on, thoughts of the mind, and emotions that arrise. everything dissolves into the power of joy and silence.

the wisdom it shares is non dual. it has no dog in the fight. its nature is joy and silence. its power is it makes everything into it. due to its nature. due to it being non dual. one can be oneself in it. therefore its a possibility is for all.

im not suggesting what i did works for everybody. or even most. or even for a few. as nobody could know. i am suggesting the possibilities from point a to b are many. not to take away from any such as the one brought up. but that the ways are many.

continued. it could be helpful to know that there is like a simple science to the process. in that spirit i will call it. has a journey in the process. it works its way through the mind and physical body. it creates an atmosphere of silence in the mind and joy in the body via the nervous system. this is its expression as i see it. the process can take from a couple years to a lifetime or lifetimes i suppose. perhaps shorter for somebody. depending upon the individual.

most first experince the silence. then at some point it works its way into the nervous system. then the joy comes.

[bartholomew]

bartholomew...are these thoughts & beliefs about the brain that are spoken of in this post, formed from earthly observations, or given over to you from spiritual beings.



Neil, Not always but very often when I, James, make a post I'm really channeling. I read the question and then begin to type and a connection is made, the channel opens. More often I real someone's post then feel a strong impulse to answer it. A sense of urgency it's like. I can feel it. In this post I was connected to the human soul Bartholomew. My words are then derived from thoughts that he sends me. This is conscious channeling, not trance. As such the channel has the responsibility to be as accurate as possible. This does not mean I can pass off responsibility for what is given. If it doesn't sound correct to me I reconsider.

Bartholomew is not some high spiritual being from far away. He is a human soul just like us only perhaps a bit older and more experienced. I will say that I know that he is close personal friends with the soul who was Pythagoras 14 or so centuries back. I have felt that other man through him and know, for instance, that Pythagoras had a sharp sense of humor. He loved playing jokes on others. History doesn't tell us this but I know it's factual.

I have been told that the part of the brain that is concerned with linking up with the high end of the spiritual plane is close to or inside of the pituitary. Somewhere in there is a very small bit of a pastel blue liquid in crystalline form or maybe it's within some physical mass. It is this area that is in resonance on a lower harmonic of the higher mental band (of energies)(in association with a certain petal of the crown chakra which serves as the "connector"). This is the window through which we manage to go so high and far away in thinking. I do not know this from personal experience. I believe it because it makes sense to me. I was told this by Bartholomew in the mid nineties sometime. It would be fun to see what a neurology researcher might have to say about it. You'd have to find one that was open minded though.

About myself I will say that I have a higher than average IQ and am the world's worst skeptic. I don't like ** and I test everything I hear, read or see with vigor. When I write something I read it and ask, "is this real or is it fantasy?" It has to make sense to me or I won't post it. The spiritual worlds are not matters of theory to me, or wishful thinking. I know about these from conscious personal experience (memories) going back as far as before I was born into this lifetime.

I'm coming up on 77 now and am a retired communications electrician/technician type.

Thanks for the question.

James

[bartholomew]

If the lower mind is quiet(ER) but not quietened, does this allow the higher mind to now work?

Does the higher mind still employ thought to think and plan?

I'm feeling a little lost as you may know. Thanks for any guidance.

PS About Buddhist temples, yes there is much peace - is this something felt by many people? :smile:



A little more here to make is clearer. I have mentioned discipline. It is this quality that keeps the lower mind from being dominant so that the higher can function. Then, yes, the lower mind translates what comes through into tangible results.

[janielee]

A little more here to make is clearer. I have mentioned discipline. It is this quality that keeps the lower mind from being dominant so that the higher can function. Then, yes, the lower mind translates what comes through into tangible results.

Thank you James/bartholomew :hug2:

[bartholomew]

Thank you James/bartholomew :hug2:



Just a note of interest here. A human being, inspired by a high desire to serve, will often access some higher realm and bring back truths which then are expressed. These must pass through the lower mind before they can be written or spoken of. This can be a problem. Since none of us are perfect can we express truths perfectly? The answer for many people is to say that yes they can because they are inspired by some higher mind. But the very process of translating high to lower includes a possibility of distortion. This is especially true in the case of conscious reception. Those who trance are less likely to suffer this effect. This is the reason that it is good to never accept anything, any bit of wisdom, based on authoritative source. Accept what is given only when it passes the test of your own ability to reason.

I say then to never accept what Bartholomew says or anything that one might find in any holy scripture until one's own reasoning allows it to be accepted. While here on Earth we can never be free of the fact of our imperfection. We can only try and keep on trying.

[janielee]

Thank you :smile:

Namaste.

[janielee]

The forum is pretty quiet so re-reading old threads is best.

[bartholomew]

The forum is pretty quiet so re-reading old threads is best.


I generally wait for someone to post unless I'm starting a new thread which really isn't very often.

I've been distracted by layers of snow the past few days at my house. Fun to look at. Not fun to drive in. Today it warmed up and rained heavily. Now the lawn is green again. Hope all is well with you.

[janielee]

I generally wait for someone to post unless I'm starting a new thread which really isn't very often.

I've been distracted by layers of snow the past few days at my house. Fun to look at. Not fun to drive in. Today it warmed up and rained heavily. Now the lawn is green again. Hope all is well with you.

Yes, very well! Thank you - learning a lot (gosh, how past due - shakes head with a small smile). Happy to hear the lawn is green again and hope all is well too. :hug2:

[janielee]

PS I like quality threads [in my subjective opinion] and ones not so focused on intellectual speculation, so I have found reading older ones piques my interest and appreciation more.

JL

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, I'm glad you revived this older thread on post #76.

Find the name Xan. :wink:

[Pagandell]

: There is another more esoteric reason also which has to do with an added responsibility of souls to participate in the raising up of very coarse spiritual matter to higher levels. This is very much to do with the destiny of souls. It is a seldom spoken of secondary purpose for us being here on physical worlds; for the whole effort. It is a topic unto itself. If anyone really wants to know a bit about it I will be happy to provide a brief introduction.

James

Dear bartholomew, I would love to hear more of this topic :angel7:

[bartholomew]

Dear bartholomew, I would love to hear more of this topic :angel7:



For more please refer to my new post: A Little About Becoming Gods.