Tell me what you think!

[MelanieJay]

What are the pros and cons of being a Vegan?
What are the benefits of it?
Is it difficult to be consistent?
How will that effect your body in the beginning?
Will you lose too much muscle from lack of meat?

I do not have a problem with it I just would like to hear everyone's opinion so I can have a better understanding of it. :smile:

[Shrek]

Many benefit of it, bodily as well as mentally.
One problem is if you do it forcefully. I mean not happily, that will affect your mood in the long run.

[kkfern]

i think it is a waste of time and energy.

kk

[kris]

https://www.vegansociety.com/try-vegan/why-go-vegan

BTW, being vegan does not require anymore time or energy than not being one.

[nummi]

What are the pros and cons of being a Vegan?
Can be useful for some purposes short-term. Long-term very damaging to health in general, especially the brain and thus mind.
Only few people can mange well on it long-term.

What are the benefits of it?
None really... Everything total "animal product avoidance" might be able to do, can be done much better when including eggs and fish. Except people who can't eat egg whites (there are some).

Is it difficult to be consistent?
Not really, taking into consideration those who've been stuck with it long-term. Though it's not the positive kind of "being stuck with it". It is a very very very negative kind.
First you acquire the dogma of "veganism". Then you begin practicing it. Then you notice short-term positive effects. Then based on those short-term positive effects you make up your mind. Then you keep practicing. Then kick in severe vit B12, animal fat, animal protein deficiencies, all of which are essential for the proper functioning of the brain. Since brain cannot function right anymore, because those nutrients are essential for making new vital discoveries and learning new important lessons, you thus are unable to see yourself and the health and mind problems brought onto yourself.
In this also plays role body's self-defense mechanism. If there are severe deficiencies of something, but body also sees the need to learn new lessons, but when using those deficient nutrients would cause total failure, then the body won't initiate those learning processes, in order to protect itself from far worse. This is where, when trying to discuss the importance of meat with meat-avoiders, results the meat-avoiders ignoring and avoiding very relevant points you introduce into the discussion (because their body is protecting itself from far worse that would occur if they tried to consider the points; if they considered the points they would see reason, and then collapse or other bad symptoms from the learning); also resulting the meat-avoiders to become very angry and irritated (which is a reflection of their bodily nutritional stress put into words and expression, a kind of release of heavily suppressed negative energy they contain so much in them due to their practices).
This applies most and best to those who had not previous to the practicing developed the ability to see oneself as one truly is at any moment, or shortly after any moment. And when already practicing avoidance, cannot anymore acquire the ability easily, for the necessary quantities of the nutrients are missing and body will rather protect itself, than cause much worse harm than not learning.
There's more to it, obviously, but roughly so.

Once in it, then very probably stuck with it for a very long time.

How will that effect your body in the beginning?
If before trying was on a diet of a lot of garbage and toxins, then in the beginning it will effect well. But here on the answer to the previous question.

If first got rid of all the garbage and toxins and had practiced it for a while, kept eating like an omnivorous creature should, got ones body clean and well. And then removing animals from diet, this would result in a gradually worsening health.

Will you lose too much muscle from lack of meat?
If you are one who had been doing heavier and active physical exercises, then oh yes. You absolutely will.
If you intend to keep doing those exercises while avoiding meat... you simply can't. Or push yourself and collapse badly.

If you had never done much any physical exercise then muscle mass wise won't notice much change.

[Tobi]

nummi -check this out:
Committed vegan Scott Jurek broke the record for a thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail. completing the hike in 46 days, 8 hours and 7 minutes.

http://www.mfablog.org/wow-vegan-ultramarathoner-breaks-appalachian

You have to be pretty fit to do that trail at all, never mind complete it in 46 days! A pretty good indicator that a vegan diet IS healthy if done properly!

By the way, there is NO need for a vegan to become deficient in vitamin B12 as supplements are available which are suitable for vegans. I take one myself daily. It's necessary though to know about the nutrients we do need, and make sure we get them.

[nummi]

What I said, "If you are one who had been doing heavier and active physical exercises, then oh yes. You absolutely will."
What I meant with it was that by lifting weights and doing such type of active exercises, you will lose muscle mass and not gain any.
I did not mean with it doing "passive" exercises like running long distances.
Because both these exercise types, strength-stamina and endurance, require different working of the muscles.

Those who run ultramarathons and longer distances. They train for. Over long periods of training one and the same way the body becomes so adapted to those movements it barely needs to use much energy for it, when compared to those who haven't trained long the same way.
Muscles adapt to keep up better and better and with muscle mass and lower energy-nutrient need. Muscles-cells also become stronger against the micro damage that is caused by muscles working. Running also doesn't require anywhere near as much muscle mass as compared to lifting heavy weights. The longer you're at it, the more efficient muscles become, they keep the potency of work or increase it, while lowering the need for size and energy and nutrients.

Losing muscle mass from increase in efficiency, and losing muscle mass due to deficiencies are two different things.

**************
Is a supplement eating "vegan" really a "vegan"? The dogma goes: eating meat is bad and meat is bad, eating plants is the right way. But supplements are not plants. So those "vegans" who eat supplements aren't really "vegans"...?

From what are those vitamins produced? Some can be produced from plants, some from animals, and then some are synthetic-artificial. Producing B12 from plants would be very expensive. So are "vegans" also about eating synthetic-artificial products when they seem to be, as they claim, about closeness to nature and wholeness? Producing synthetic vitamins means industrial waste as a byproduct - pollution - thus harming nature.
Since they claim eating meat is bad and harmful to nature... But the same does not apply to synthetic-artificial vitamins that with their line of production harm nature badly?

Personally, I don't label myself... I just give my body what it needs, preferably through whole foods. Some things I do eat that aren't in some sense "whole foods", but they could be labeled more as rocks as their structure in solid form is crystalline; different mineral salts, especially magnesium.

[knightofalbion]

World record holing vegan strongman Patrik Baboumian
http://www.greatveganathletes.com/vegan_athlete_patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman

[knightofalbion]

What are the pros and cons of being a Vegan?
What are the benefits of it?
Is it difficult to be consistent?
How will that effect your body in the beginning?
Will you lose too much muscle from lack of meat?

I do not have a problem with it I just would like to hear everyone's opinion so I can have a better understanding of it. :smile:

There are various reasons people go vegan - moral, spiritual or health.
An increasing number of people are embracing the diet - ex- US President Bill Clinton, boxer Mike Tyson and Chaka Khan being, probably, the most well known.

Mostly I would say vegans are animal lovers who are prepared to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk ...

[Tobi]

**************
Is a supplement eating "vegan" really a "vegan"? The dogma goes: eating meat is bad and meat is bad, eating plants is the right way. But supplements are not plants. So those "vegans" who eat supplements aren't really "vegans"...?

From what are those vitamins produced? Some can be produced from plants, some from animals, and then some are synthetic-artificial. Producing B12 from plants would be very expensive. So are "vegans" also about eating synthetic-artificial products when they seem to be, as they claim, about closeness to nature and wholeness? Producing synthetic vitamins means industrial waste as a byproduct - pollution - thus harming nature.
Since they claim eating meat is bad and harmful to nature... But the same does not apply to synthetic-artificial vitamins that with their line of production harm nature badly?

Personally, I don't label myself... I just give my body what it needs, preferably through whole foods. Some things I do eat that aren't in some sense "whole foods", but they could be labeled more as rocks as their structure in solid form is crystalline; different mineral salts, especially magnesium.

Vegan vitamin B12 supplements are made from bacteria cultures. They are not 'unnatural' or containing any synthetic products or unnecessary chemicals:

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources

Vegans usually don't live on pills. They eat lovely and very tasty food! But it's wise to make sure things like Vitamin B12 and Omega 3 is taken in sufficient quantity, so a supplement is sensible as well as the tasty food! Most vegans will make sure their supplements are good ones, and not some artificial chemical gunk.
And the cost of those supplements isn't a problem. An Omega-3 supplement, when the expense is broken down into weekly cost, works out at the same price as three cans of Mackerel or Salmon per week!

Yes Magnesium is very important. There are many foods which contain Magnesium, and many of them are suitable for vegans.

[nummi]

Vegan vitamin B12 supplements are made from bacteria cultures. They are not 'unnatural' or containing any synthetic products or unnecessary chemicals:

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources

Vegans usually don't live on pills. They eat lovely and very tasty food! But it's wise to make sure things like Vitamin B12 and Omega 3 is taken in sufficient quantity, so a supplement is sensible as well as the tasty food! Most vegans will make sure their supplements are good ones, and not some artificial chemical gunk.
And the cost of those supplements isn't a problem. An Omega-3 supplement, when the expense is broken down into weekly cost, works out at the same price as three cans of Mackerel or Salmon per week!

Yes Magnesium is very important. There are many foods which contain Magnesium, and many of them are suitable for vegans.
At least most meat-avoiders, who don't eat pills to supplement the vital nutrients-vitamins, will suffer badly health wise both bodily and mentally. There are so many examples that come very obvious when conversing with some of them. They are hurting themselves.
But what I wonder is does "vegan" dogma consider eating pills, of any kind, okay? Personally, if I had to eat some pills that don't contain anything harmful to give my body something it cannot get any other way in required quantities, I'd be okay with that. I'd be okay with it because I don't label myself and I don't follow any dogma. But those who consider themselves "vegans" do follow a dogma; does eating pills contradict that dogma?

Another thing I'm wondering now. Vegans consider animals (mammals, birds, fish) as superior than plants and thus exempt from being used as food. Also superior than bacteria? But what about insects? I know many vegans, by eating plants, unknowingly also consume tiny insects. But insects are also animals. There are insects that can barely be seen with the eyes... is it okay for a vegan to eat them? And how could one remove all those insects from the plant without harming them? Can't wash them off for that would drown them...
Also, some vegans definitely drink sea water... But the thing is sea water contains plankton... among whom are also tiny sea animals, just like tiny insects are on plants... Is it okay for a vegan to eat (drink) plankton?
And when running, can happen that an insect, flies right down a vegans mouth... Is that okay too? Or will "karma" (the way some understand karma, but not as I know it) make the vegan suffer the same fate in a next life? Down a running vegan mouth? And the same with the tiny insects on plants and plankton?
Or are the tiny insects and plankton inferior than other animals and thus exempt from the rules "don't eat animals; don't kill animals"?
These questions... are kind of funny... (Which I didn't intend them to be, they just turned out so...) But definitely valid.

I eat lovely and very tasty food also! Same things "meat-avoiders" eat. Only difference is my variety of food is bigger, as my diet includes meats as well.
And because I eat meats too I don't need to supplement B12 or O3, because I get them from meats, and I get from meats many other vital things also and in the quantities my body requires them.
I wouldn't stop eating meats even if I wanted to, as by avoiding meat I would destroy my health and body (primarily due to having to eat far too much sugar-starches to get my daily energy, and thus far too much fiber; and I couldn't keep doing many physical exercises-training I like also, due to the resulting severe protein deficiency). If I eat a little bit too much plants (thus too much sugar and fiber), I get stomach and gut issues quickly. I eat too much plants for a few days, and it takes 1-2 weeks to heal from the damage done.

Many who start avoiding meat never consider this: "Is my body built to sustain avoiding meat without suffering too much health wise?"

[kris]

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2015/06/22/warning-you-may-never-eat-turkey-again-after-watching-this.cnnmoney/index.html?iid=obnetwork

Thankfully, there is a better way to relate to birds.

[Tobi]

You seem to dislike 'meat-avoiders' nummi....
I used to like meat very much. I used to eat it raw. I liked the salty bloody taste of it. After a while I ate it cooked. But I still liked bacon very much! I first stopped eating meat because it wouldn't keep without a really cool storage space (I lived in a barn on a mountain)
Much much later I stopped eating meat altogether because I didn't like the way animals were treated in the 'meat industry'. And because if I couldn't eat my dog, how could I eat a sheep or a pig? That was my only reason. Not any 'holier-than-thou' reason.

And with careful management, I am no less fit now in my sixties, relatively-speaking than I was when I ate meat in my twenties (taken into account that I am getting older of course! Can't run as long and as far as I used to, but I think that's more to do with being over 60 than it is to do with not eating meat.)

[kris]

http://www.howdoigovegan.com/

[nummi]

You seem to dislike 'meat-avoiders' nummi....
I used to like meat very much. I used to eat it raw. I liked the salty bloody taste of it. After a while I ate it cooked. But I still liked bacon very much! I first stopped eating meat because it wouldn't keep without a really cool storage space (I lived in a barn on a mountain)
Much much later I stopped eating meat altogether because I didn't like the way animals were treated in the 'meat industry'. And because if I couldn't eat my dog, how could I eat a sheep or a pig? That was my only reason. Not any 'holier-than-thou' reason.

And with careful management, I am no less fit now in my sixties, relatively-speaking than I was when I ate meat in my twenties (taken into account that I am getting older of course! Can't run as long and as far as I used to, but I think that's more to do with being over 60 than it is to do with not eating meat.)
What I dislike is that almost all meat-avoiders I've encounter lie. They say something untrue to be true, and they say that untruth applies to all, when it is so obvious it does not apply to all. If they kept what they say within the bounds where it applies, then there would be no wrongs to bring out. They force their beliefs onto those on whom those beliefs do not apply. They are lying and being disrespectful to others and themselves.
So in response to that I am firm in pointing out what is not true, and how much of it approximately is true.

Meat stays good and edible for long periods, 1-3 months at least.
That the meat, when in moist conditions, can get slimy and smell, is no problem. You scrape the slime off and the meat is edible and still tastes good.
There are people who specifically put meat into jars and let it sit for weeks or months before eating it. Because certain bacteria "predigest" it and create many beneficial substances, and feed gut bacteria when that meat is eaten by people. It is a form of fermentation, except not with plants, but with meats. The same is done with fish, though fish don't keep as long.
If meat is left outside, to hang or other ways where air can get around it, it will dry on the surface. It might get moldy. But it is still good and edible, and this way the taste becomes quite wonderful.
What I have noticed is that when the meat is fresh, then after about a week it becomes "unpalatable" in the sense that instinctively don't want to eat it, but then after another week something changes and it becomes very palatable.
And then there's dry-aging the meat. It can last for years like this in the right conditions without going "bad".

That animals are treated bad in the meat industry does not mean animals are treated bad absolutely everywhere. There are farms and places where animals are treated well, very well. You don't need to eat "meat-industry" meat just because such abomination exists. Find farmers and places that respect and keep animals well, and eat that meat.
I don't eat meat-industry meat either, because it's toxic garbage. And I never would eat that garbage. But that doesn't mean I have to stop eating meat, especially if there are farmers who respect and make sure their animals live a good life.

You could eat your dog if you wanted to. That's your decision, not someone else's. The "authority" might regard eating a dog as wrong, but do they decide how you live your life? Do you allow others to decide how you live your life and how you may think or not? Some people also keep pigs and sheep as pets, and other people eat the same animals.
Just because someone has an animal as a pet does not mean that animal may not be eaten. Depends why you are keeping the animal around yourself. You don't need to eat every animal you encounter...

Not being able to run as long and as far has extremely little to do with the number of years lived. It has almost everything to do with health and under which conditions the body has developed over the years lived. The more I encounter the "aging" issue, the more I realize that "age" is the bodily breaking and failure to keep going with strong health due to less than optimal conditions. Conditions like toxins and poisons, mineral-vitamin-nutrient deficiencies, bad-wrong thinking and emotions, etc.
How long one has lived and "age" are essentially two completely different things that have nearly no relation between each other. After all, there are people who have lived well over 100 years, and maintained good and strong health in all regards throughout their lives.
Health getting worse the longer you live, the conventional understanding of "aging", is a symptom of poor living conditions and poor diet and thinking. It is an illness.
Health should be strong and well no matter how long you've lived.

[kris]

http://vegankit.com/why

[Eudaimonia]

Pros: eating lower organized consciousness, less dense energy, not as many steps between sun energy and yourself. Also the biggest one is prevention of suffering

Cons: Hard to stick with, requires much discipline and focus, not always possible due to economic, environmental, psychological factors. If not done correctly can be harmful.