World Kin Collective. (A Big Story!)

[Mr Interesting]

An idea came to me to create an umbrella of sorts in what might be termed the good fight against ignorance.

An open discussion that could go out into the world which links back to all those neato new ideas like collective commons licences, chaos theory, networking as biodynamics etc.

A few years ago I kinda gave up on the typical art practise I'd been working on for years as while the artworks might discuss ideas I was interested in the delivery system of galleries and general selling of artworks as packages just didn't seem to fit the bill I was looking for. So after a few years doing the least possible just to survive I've ended up selling of odds and ends, not artworks so much as tools of art, in the vein offered by Ebay type sites and even then feeling a little dis enfranchised by the needs of buyers to just get a deal.

Add to this a friend of mine who often reminds me of the charities he gives to every month which not so much left me with a sour taste so much as the question of why something must be deemed a charity before we can simply give to a cause.

And if I think back the real trigger was a thread on where masculine and feminine came from which, with a back injury to one side of my body, which is almost healed thankyou very much, got me pondering the difference between giving and receiving is to the extent there isn't really a difference at all. I suppose what that means is that giving and receiving suffers only by defining the difference which doesn't really exist because energy is always in motion but when we stop it with concepts of ownership and self it seems to beg a difference that isn't really there.

It's like if I write all this down and nobody replies or even reads it it doesn't deplete at all the fact it's been done, the energetic component is freed and existent and having to come back and rate myself by how it's taken cannot or would never diminish or change it's existence as an energetic output.

But if it is commented on and replies ensue then the energy grows and becomes and hopefully others grab and realise there own connective space and it all gets bigger even whilst this specific growth, as it were, isn't really any different energetically... just different materially within a perception of what giving and receiving is.

So as it stands now this 'World Kin Collective' has an Apple computer battery I found on a rubbish pile and without a whole big learning experience centred on me I can't determine whether it's brand new and usable or conked out and basically useless. It came in a box of original packaging with even the receipt for the company that sold it and it all looks pristine.

Did then some obsessive compulsive nerd take out his old battery and replace it with the new one then put the old buggered battery back in the new packaging and stored it away, which is possible, or did someone with more money than sense buy a new battery when he/she freaked out and thought he/she needed one then realised they didn't after some simple error of supposed ignorance?

Before me then I have a mystery and mysteries I've always found are very close to the ideas of what luck is, in the sense that we might have something before us we know nothing about but our intuition tells us it is worth investigating this mystery and after doing so we find that chance we've taken has added some small abundance to our lives and we call the whole thing being lucky.

Within then this simple battery found at the side of the road as a mysterious thing and my replies on the 'Ignorance is' thread I came to something that will be called the 'World Kin Collective' which hopefully becomes a sort of organising principle to connect all kinds of things together in the great battle of diminishing ignorance.

So on the Ebay selling page of this single battery I discuss the mystery and highlight the waste of personal profit as contained in me alone having to find out, and along the way devolve the mystery, whether this object has value and open up the responsibility of each who might find the selling page to how they could 'pay it forward' in realising we all have or may have a part to play in saving and utilising this one small fragment of human endeavour.

And the selling page links then to the story of what the 'World Kin Collective' might be in the form of web pages and links and ideas.

What we have here then is not a single object seen as a profit or a loss, a risk by an individual against the waves of individuality trying to assert itself only as singular entities but a qualification of a willingness to see a bigger an more complete connectivity.

And for me, 'cause that's what counts too, I get to make what isn't seen as art into art, that the object just as an object falls away and becomes indicative of a way of being, and I'm able to take that art away from the hallowed halls and make it mundane and thoroughly public, take it to the mainstream and play in the mud of regular commerce.

Another playful aspect is that for every sale I make I could give out stickers which link back to the web presence and are colour coded to discuss levels of ignorance and also offer the whole thing under a creative commons license whereby anyone else was free to open and own the discussion in their own way. Blue stickers would then be kinda selfish and cold and could be put on a high fence around a secure property and red stckers attached to an open property that offers a beautiful garden as welcome to all.

Work in progress... free to add whatever you think might be valid, if you'ven been able to get through such a hugely long post!

Would've been much more suited to the blog section really but that's kinda the point to. Not putting stuff where it's supposed to be but where it might work the best.

[naturesflow]

First of all.

I was like.

Oh no not BIG story!! Its going to be long, can I manage this BIG read?

Then I thought well I could or rather I should, but then I shifted to this.

I WANT to read it, because I VALUE the person who created it, in a way where I know he connects the dots to things that make little things FEEL profound in me. Which of course opened me to PUSH through my normal unwillingness to take in too much information or read long drawn out posts.

Ok now in saying all this I am going back to re read the last part to let that soak in a little more before responding.

[Greenslade]

Ummm yes, well. Okaaaayyyy.

To be honest I don't know where to go with this, whether to buy you a beer or kick your tail up and down the Universe for freaking me out. That's a tongue-in-cheek kicking, of course. And unless you live in the neighbourhood the beer's the beer's metaphorical. There's luck for you.

I see some strange parallels behind what this is all about, some I've already tried or am in the process of doing, not so much by way of art because art is a long way from my forte unless colouring books and crayons count as art. Maybe not. Mine was more about stories but the creativity and connections were there. I built a website where someone could start a story and the others could contribute by writing from their own character's perspective. It started off as a bit of fun but it got very seriously Spiritual very quickly as people connected not just to each other but also to Past Lives and Spirit. It went pretty close to the vein you're talking about and the energy system that was built up would have been akin to the energy system I can imagine would be built up with your idea. Perhaps there's a similar energy system building up in this discussion.

At the moment I'm working on a website for this hick town. There is one already but it's very elitist and while it hails itself as a community website it's about the community and not by the community. My idea is to empower and include, and hopefully connect people in a more meaningful way. While the town has been given some pretty bad press there are so many amazing things going on behind the scenes that never reaches the light of day, something that's been bugging me for a while. I've been looking for a way to redress the balance.

Maybe your 'World Kin Collective' is a collective of collectives.

[7luminaries]

And if I think back the real trigger was a thread on where masculine and feminine came from which, with a back injury to one side of my body, which is almost healed thankyou very much, got me pondering the difference between giving and receiving is to the extent there isn't really a difference at all. I suppose what that means is that giving and receiving suffers only by defining the difference which doesn't really exist because energy is always in motion but when we stop it with concepts of ownership and self it seems to beg a difference that isn't really there.
Ahh...now you're really tapping into the full world kin collective ;)
And yes, I read that other thread. I look for more discussions on all this.
Really, it comes down to getting beyond "me" and seeking to connect and appreciate others for who they are, WHILST they do the same for you.

If it's only ever one-way connection, there's no forward growth as a species. And then there's no forward growth between the most fundamental units of the species, male and female. Men and women.

It all comes back to this, and it's pointing us toward either evolution or devolution. Only history and hindsight can say for certain, but I'd say honouring one another and coming to love one another first as individuals and friends is the way forward. All our other problems can be sorted from this place, as we'll have grasped the living, breathing way of authentic love.

Conversely, the mainstream "modern" perspective -- one that is utilitarian, exploitative, and primarily base (commercial or sexual) is IMO completely and transparently unsustainable. That is, the current or modern perspective or approach (whether applied to relationship with one another or with Gaia) cannot be used to successfully move forward or to sort any of our social or global problems.

The fun and the real work -- both -- comes in as more and more individuals discuss not only buying green and supporting green causes and so forth, and getting on board with other major paradigm shifts -- but in actually living green, say.

And most universally, the real fun and the real work of this lifetime lies in living "clean"...in exploring how we do that, and the obstacles we confront within and without. Living clean, in the sense of treating ourselves and all others we touch with dignity and honour. Seeking their good equally to our own. That is a mind-blowing paradigm shift...and one never before possible in our history. No more oppression, exploitation, or deceit in not only public exchanges but especially personal exchanges. No more blatant road-testing and crass sexual or commercial exchanges passed off as "status quo" or "normative" or cynically labelled as "serious relationships", but rather simple, honest ownership of wherever we are.

Real and authentic means real and authentic at every level. If we're living in the mud and dung, we need to own it for what it is. Mud is mud, and if that's where we're at, then that's where we need to start. We won't "get clean", and we certainly can't live clean, by acting as if dung were roses and smelled just as sweet, eh? If we've been looking at our exchanges with others for how much we can take and how little we must give, then we start by acknowledging there's loads of mud and dung we need to clear off. And only then can we see that real authenticity in our exchanges is based equally on what we bring, on what we can and will give...and on how deeply we seek the good of the other alongside our own. And on the other party doing likewise.

For certain, living in authenticity is a terrifying place for many, but all paradigm changes are a bit scary at first...and just think of all the wonderful freedom and honesty. And just think about how just those simple but fundamentally groundbreaking shifts will change everything in new and mysterious ways.

I think you're onto something Mr I., and I like it :)

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Mr Interesting]

I read your stuff people and I'm not going to pick it apart and comment specifically on certain bits except to say it's all good and we'll take for granted that what arrived so far is acknowledged and adding intuitively to the mix.

Maybe that's part of it too, that we don't have to keep stepping backwards or standing still even to glorify personal inputs but accept that in going forward we are already acknowledging what has already arrived.

I went to a friends and gave him the lowdown and he especially liked the stickers idea where it's similar to facebook likes with the added bonus of don't like... clever man, and I somewhat enjoyed how such an obvious connection based in popularisation actually felt quite wise in the sense of bringing an internet phenomenon viewed as somehow depersonalising could be brought back into the concrete world to see how it might fare.

As is suggested the crux of it will entirely depend on being able to comment on selfishness but in such a way as it isn't judgemental and patronising, even though it is of course, but in such a way that such commentary doesn't close doors but leaves them open for the judged to investigate the possibilities of looking at things differently. In that respect then judgement and patronising is the mud of which new structures can be made... maybe.

One thing I found about my own art practise, once I basically gave it up mostly, is that it really ended up having far less to do with the artifact termed art, and far more about the interactivity of spirit and people in general. I n that regard all interactivity can be art and that's where I'd like to go and seems to be about seeing what we might now regard as art, the artifact, as merely a preliminary set of gestures that alike other practises, are only there for the skills of being in connection with spirit simply because raw matter is easier to learn from than more complicated humans.

Ways to go forward are jostling for position at the moment though the obvious is an artwork to start it off and just behind this is some form of advertising to at least get a foothold in the place I live in. This, in a sense, feels somewhat tricky as I'd like it to make a significant enough impact but at the same time have enough grounding behind it that the weight of others curiousity to make the jump and have a look at a web presence has then enough background to hold peoples enthusiasm to see if it builds while also, and one can see then the challenge, realising that the watchers efforts are actually required in the building thereof.

A friend of mine years ago said my problem was I was addicted to building shops 'cause he'd seen that when I ran out of work building shops for other people I went out and built my own then got bored as I was never really interested in making them work as things that sold stuff. When he originally said it it was quite out of the blue and so obviously true and has even continued to be relevant and even in this instance has a truth I'm loathe to be aware of. Well not loathe so much as offering a reality I need to be aware of which is I do have to realise I should milk this for all I can before it takes off and becomes other peoples business to milk in a way they can too.

Actually this brings to mind I had about the stickers and colouration, even whilst I might be getting ahead of myself, which was a commentary of modern branding which seems to be wholeheartedly trying to look green.

This was an idea that such could be red over blue which would mean that something was trying to look like it was integrative but underneath was just the old paradigm being clever. The opposite then would be blue over red which would suggest that while on the surface something looked selfish and greedy that underneath the underlying motive was authentic and of an integrity whereby once investment reached a tipping point then the positives would spread out. Purples then could be a commentary that whatever was commented on could go either way.

This could all be silly but I'm kinda trying to find a new way to have money looked at that makes it fun and we almost definitely need to see money as fun whereby throwing it at things that have higher risk is definitely more fun.

Now I'm meandering...

worldkincollective.org $135.00nz (or otherwise) anyone willing?

[7luminaries]

As is suggested the crux of it will entirely depend on being able to comment on selfishness but in such a way as it isn't judgemental and patronising, even though it is of course, but in such a way that such commentary doesn't close doors but leaves them open for the judged to investigate the possibilities of looking at things differently. In that respect then judgement and patronising is the mud of which new structures can be made... maybe
What's up, Mr. I? Are you saying those who comment on human nature as it manifests today are judgmental and patronising? As that could be a bit judgmental and patronising in itself, eh? :tongue: LOL...Just to clarify, my own perspective is at a very macro level. Meaning, societal and global. So it's certainly not directed at any particular individual here, none of whom I really know.

However it's true that women have voices too and simply because we may often have a different perspective on many things doesn't mean it's bad or that labels such as "judgmental" or "patronising" need to be pulled out of the hat :wink: And as women become more courageous and fearless, they'll not be silenced as in times past no matter what labels are pulled out of the hat. If what we seek is authenticity and acceptance, then there needs to be room for everyone's voices at the table...including voices that really haven't been heard or valued much till now.

Let's say I'm a man and I'm not a wife-beater or a philanderer, for example, but even if our society condoned it - and there are many societies that still think it's acceptable -- nonetheless, I'd still have no problem saying it's not right, full stop, IMO. I'm sure I'd take quite a bit of flak from those for whom it's positively shocking to consider the idea that just because our society tolerated or even encouraged wife-beating, that perhaps it wasn't authentically loving and considering the higher good of the other. They'd likely say I was being judgmental and patronising heheh :wink: And yet it's the voices of men confronting other men, both gently and forcefully, that will really help create change and real opportunities for self-reflection. Until then, it may be on the women to continue to bring their own perspectives to the forefront, until and unless upstanding gents join them and add their voices in true agape love and fellowship, just as fellow human beings.

When bro code is meaningless, and when all other social codes of violence, exploitation, denial, and justification are tossed aside, then real progress and real exchange can truly take place between humanity at the most fundamental level...for the first time ever. It's a brave new world, and I look fwd to breaking the mold and creating it anew.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[naturesflow]

And if I think back the real trigger was a thread on where masculine and feminine came from which, with a back injury to one side of my body, which is almost healed thankyou very much, got me pondering the difference between giving and receiving is to the extent there isn't really a difference at all. I suppose what that means is that giving and receiving suffers only by defining the difference which doesn't really exist because energy is always in motion but when we stop it with concepts of ownership and self it seems to beg a difference that isn't really there.

If you look at the *whole nature of you* within this idea, then it is the balance of you that flows outwardly through both. Meaning you are the infinite symbol of flowing out and in or in and out (which ever way you prefer to see it) naturally. As you are as you be. The flow then is a natural response to being you as you are in that space within. Nothing more unless you say so.

It's like if I write all this down and nobody replies or even reads it it doesn't deplete at all the fact it's been done, the energetic component is freed and existent and having to come back and rate myself by how it's taken cannot or would never diminish or change it's existence as an energetic output.

Yes the freedom of shared expression is *not one fits all* and you are the *not one fits all* within first and foremost. The energy you extend in the state of your sharing will often determine the nature of what you receive in that process. So the more *connected* it is to that natural inward giving and receiving space in you, the more sharing becomes a free spirited creation. Where it goes and what it creates is the ripple of itself. Naturally, if you don't hold ideas about what it needs to be doing. In the moment it is what it is.

But if it is commented on and replies ensue then the energy grows and becomes and hopefully others grab and realise there own connective space and it all gets bigger even whilst this specific growth, as it were, isn't really any different energetically... just different materially within a perception of what giving and receiving is.

Yes others will take what they need if they need and that ripple continues to expand in that *whole* of connections when others are affected. So you could ask yourself where am I in the affects within myself? Because you are it all in that awareness in the sharing/creation.

So as it stands now this 'World Kin Collective' has an Apple computer battery I found on a rubbish pile and without a whole big learning experience centred on me I can't determine whether it's brand new and usable or conked out and basically useless. It came in a box of original packaging with even the receipt for the company that sold it and it all looks pristine.

Did then some obsessive compulsive nerd take out his old battery and replace it with the new one then put the old buggered battery back in the new packaging and stored it away, which is possible, or did someone with more money than sense buy a new battery when he/she freaked out and thought he/she needed one then realised they didn't after some simple error of supposed ignorance?

Before me then I have a mystery and mysteries I've always found are very close to the ideas of what luck is, in the sense that we might have something before us we know nothing about but our intuition tells us it is worth investigating this mystery and after doing so we find that chance we've taken has added some small abundance to our lives and we call the whole thing being lucky.


Yes some call it synchronisation, luck, alignment, *having needs met*, *spirits dropping things out of the sky * *being in the right place at the right time* and more I suspect, but in the whole in you, you know exactly how to receive that moment for you as yourself building that whole connection in you and you can know the other even when you don't know exactly the whys and how's just because you are looking at the *world kin* in you in this moment. You come to know the other from a place in you that *knows and feels the world Kin Connection*in yourself...Where you reside within is where you reside in you and come to know this through you own awareness in yourself that is open in this way.


Within then this simple battery found at the side of the road as a mysterious thing and my replies on the 'Ignorance is' thread I came to something that will be called the 'World Kin Collective' which hopefully becomes a sort of organising principle to connect all kinds of things together in the great battle of diminishing ignorance.

It seems symbolic doesn't it. Something strewn, not needed by another any more. A principle of energy/a road/a mystery. Yet something you can pick up and treasure because of another's creation, discarded, yet very useful to you. To you it becomes a gift. A free one. A point of freedom to find what you need, through the whole unfolding. The principle of *things* and *energy* *roads* and the *unknown* all correlate within the whole self.
And the whole self, we know is inclusive of many aspects of ourselves beyond just the knowing of these things. We have heart awareness, we have ideas to support, we have active participation, we have so many ways of being and doing. We also honour the *one* that made it possible or many *ones*, because without that, we would not have received that moment in the giving, no matter how it was given or shared.

So on the Ebay selling page of this single battery I discuss the mystery and highlight the waste of personal profit as contained in me alone having to find out, and along the way devolve the mystery, whether this object has value and open up the responsibility of each who might find the selling page to how they could 'pay it forward' in realising we all have or may have a part to play in saving and utilising this one small fragment of human endeavour.

And the selling page links then to the story of what the 'World Kin Collective' might be in the form of web pages and links and ideas.

What we have here then is not a single object seen as a profit or a loss, a risk by an individual against the waves of individuality trying to assert itself only as singular entities but a qualification of a willingness to see a bigger an more complete connectivity.

And for me, 'cause that's what counts too, I get to make what isn't seen as art into art, that the object just as an object falls away and becomes indicative of a way of being, and I'm able to take that art away from the hallowed halls and make it mundane and thoroughly public, take it to the mainstream and play in the mud of regular commerce.

Another playful aspect is that for every sale I make I could give out stickers which link back to the web presence and are colour coded to discuss levels of ignorance and also offer the whole thing under a creative commons license whereby anyone else was free to open and own the discussion in their own way. Blue stickers would then be kinda selfish and cold and could be put on a high fence around a secure property and red stckers attached to an open property that offers a beautiful garden as welcome to all.

Work in progress... free to add whatever you think might be valid, if you'ven been able to get through such a hugely long post!

Would've been much more suited to the blog section really but that's kinda the point to. Not putting stuff where it's supposed to be but where it might work the best.


Its amazing the flow of each others sharing, can activate and ripple in so many unknown ways. Sometimes the sharing of that is missed, but not today. And that spark ignites something in the direction of *one world* with so many ways and chances to get things back to that shared kindred state. This can come about when we all work in harmony with each others sharing, without judgement, letting go of ignorance, opening our hearts, building a new awareness of shared foundations. Opening to the whole nature in ourselves really does clear out and build the *world kindred connection* within our own whole process that has the ability to tap into it all in us. Look what transpires in one of many ways able to transpires. Self gains becomes shared gains. :)

Sometimes it pays to just trust what you need to do and where you need to put things. Even when it doesn't make sense or goes against the *norm* It will in its own time do what it needs to do. The *whole* state, is a whole host of outflow and inflow as one. How can it not be? Where you are on that ripple of the whole is a gift to itself.

[Mr Interesting]

Taken in the spirit intended, so thankyou. Sorry I forgot that patronising comes from patron which also comes from patriarchal though part of me agrees new words might be an advantage it's possibly more about how we see the words that counts.

Case in point, and a neato one, I went down to the gas station to get tobacco and money and the guy behind the counter has Aman on his nametag. I've been there a few times, we're getting a thing going on about laughing and kidding... they know I like fun, so I ask him what his name means in Hindi, 'cause he's obviously from that sub- continent (though it could be Farsi or even Urdu) and I'm lucky as usual and it means Peace. Click, as in already beginning, but spirit's there all synchronious like, so I ask him to write it down in Sanskrit on the back of the receipt. (Bumblebee!, just went out for a pee, there's Bumblebee)

Excuse the note it'll mean something soon, and I get back in the car and suddenly see Leonardo's man in the circle and he's wearing prison orange after seeing this other thing where an old friend on facebook linked to an Afropunk (http://www.afropunk.com/profiles/blogs/feature-manifestjustice-art-exhibit-in-los-angeles) thing and I comment (not knowing my faux pas) "Orange is the new black" and then this has the Sanskrit for peace written underneath it and below that, 'cause I'm realising the painting I'll do to sell on Trademe and get some cash to buy the domain name, is the #worldkincollective thing as the WKC in purple...

Then just now when I see this Bumblebee wander out of the woodpile and cruise across some wood right in front of me that that goes in there too, on the painting, a big orangey Bumblebee in the top left hand corner.

As for Girlpower, I'm all for it but I'm not a female so it's for you girls (woh- man!) to take care of that, matronising? What would that mean and how would it work? And even as it isn't yet, or maybe it is, I wanna see it, I wanna see it married to patronising... 'til death do us part.

Judgement... trickier.

Manipulation... there's another baddy, digitploitation?

All about sharing the potential we have! Step one. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=889433954)

[naturesflow]

Taken in the spirit intended, so thankyou. Sorry I forgot that patronising comes from patron which also comes from patriarchal though part of me agrees new words might be an advantage it's possibly more about how we see the words that counts.

Case in point, and a neato one, I went down to the gas station to get tobacco and money and the guy behind the counter has Aman on his nametag. I've been there a few times, we're getting a thing going on about laughing and kidding... they know I like fun, so I ask him what his name means in Hindi, 'cause he's obviously from that sub- continent (though it could be Farsi or even Urdu) and I'm lucky as usual and it means Peace. Click, as in already beginning, but spirit's there all synchronious like, so I ask him to write it down in Sanskrit on the back of the receipt. (Bumblebee!, just went out for a pee, there's Bumblebee)

Excuse the note it'll mean something soon, and I get back in the car and suddenly see Leonardo's man in the circle and he's wearing prison orange after seeing this other thing where an old friend on facebook linked to an Afropunk (http://www.afropunk.com/profiles/blogs/feature-manifestjustice-art-exhibit-in-los-angeles) thing and I comment (not knowing my faux pas) "Orange is the new black" and then this has the Sanskrit for peace written underneath it and below that, 'cause I'm realising the painting I'll do to sell on Trademe and get some cash to buy the domain name, is the #worldkincollective thing as the WKC in purple...

Then just now when I see this Bumblebee wander out of the woodpile and cruise across some wood right in front of me that that goes in there too, on the painting, a big orangey Bumblebee in the top left hand corner.

As for Girlpower, I'm all for it but I'm not a female so it's for you girls (woh- man!) to take care of that, matronising? What would that mean and how would it work? And even as it isn't yet, or maybe it is, I wanna see it, I wanna see it married to patronising... 'til death do us part.

Judgement... trickier.

Manipulation... there's another baddy, digitploitation?

All about sharing the potential we have! Step one. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=889433954)

who are you speaking too?

OH! I see now, I had to go back over it to see what you meant in the whole context of each piece...:D

[Mr Interesting]

Yup sorry there naturesflow, you posted as I was answering 7luminaries, and it's been a fairly rushed day with ideas going all over the place and I've just gotten out of meditation, without much actual rest, so I'm going to go back in and give it another go. I'll certainly be back though to address your thoughts.

[7luminaries]

Taken in the spirit intended, so thankyou. Sorry I forgot that patronising comes from patron which also comes from patriarchal though part of me agrees new words might be an advantage it's possibly more about how we see the words that counts.

Case in point, and a neato one, I went down to the gas station to get tobacco and money and the guy behind the counter has Aman on his nametag. I've been there a few times, we're getting a thing going on about laughing and kidding... they know I like fun, so I ask him what his name means in Hindi, 'cause he's obviously from that sub- continent (though it could be Farsi or even Urdu) and I'm lucky as usual and it means Peace. Click, as in already beginning, but spirit's there all synchronious like, so I ask him to write it down in Sanskrit on the back of the receipt. (Bumblebee!, just went out for a pee, there's Bumblebee)

Excuse the note it'll mean something soon, and I get back in the car and suddenly see Leonardo's man in the circle and he's wearing prison orange after seeing this other thing where an old friend on facebook linked to an Afropunk (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.afropunk.com%252 52Fprofiles%25252Fblogs%25252Ffeature-manifestjustice-art-exhibit-in-los-angeles) thing and I comment (not knowing my faux pas) "Orange is the new black" and then this has the Sanskrit for peace written underneath it and below that, 'cause I'm realising the painting I'll do to sell on Trademe and get some cash to buy the domain name, is the #worldkincollective thing as the WKC in purple...

Then just now when I see this Bumblebee wander out of the woodpile and cruise across some wood right in front of me that that goes in there too, on the painting, a big orangey Bumblebee in the top left hand corner.

As for Girlpower, I'm all for it but I'm not a female so it's for you girls (woh- man!) to take care of that, matronising? What would that mean and how would it work? And even as it isn't yet, or maybe it is, I wanna see it, I wanna see it married to patronising... 'til death do us part.

Judgement... trickier.

Manipulation... there's another baddy, digitploitation?

All about sharing the potential we have! Step one. (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.trademe.co.nz%25 252FBrowse%25252FListing.aspx%25253Fid%25253D88943 3954)

Mr. I...Interesting about "aman" and its meaning. Here's some more on "aman" roots and their related meaning across several languages. Latin is a language derived from Sanskrit. And English vocab is heavily infused with words of Latin origin. But the parallels between Sanskrit and the Semitic languages is also clear. The root appears in both of these language families (Indo-European and Semitic) and may predate both. My name is Amanda, btw, and I am familiar with this info as well ;).

hebrew - to confirm or support (like "amen"), confirmation, support
arabic - peace of mind, sureness, trust
sanskrit - peace and tranquility (also like anan(d) - "bliss, tranquility")
latin - lovable, worthy of love ("will be loved")
english - see latin

As to the rest, why say "sorry about patronising" (thanks for that :smile:) but then continue to bring it up later, LOL? Really a mixed message there for me. I enjoy discussion and I like getting into the hard topics and really putting our thoughts out there on trends and factors, but with courtesy and of course avoiding the labelling of any specific individuals.

Everyone has their voice and their POV, and if some say with great sincerity that we don't feel X Y and Z behaviours are in right alignment with spirit, with dignity, with respect, and with the higher good of the other, then that's their right. If we have integrity in our perspective, then we don't condone these behaviours no matter who performs them. So what good does it do to disregard those people and their voices, or to denigrate them with labels like "judgmental", "matronising", or "patronising"? They are fellow humans, different to you in this manifest existence through biology and culture, and yet equal to you in every way in spirit, intellect, and depth of character. What good is served by shutting down their perspectives and their voices?

This is the most fundamental aspect of humanity...male and female. Wherever humanity exists then so too do these most basic units of male and female, regardless of every other overlay of culture, time, and place. IMO the world especially needs clear, firm, compassionate, and thoughtful perspectives -- and especially those that are not mainstream, that are not currently valued or heard clearly. Why? Distance from centre brings a vast untapped perspective that the world collective dearly needs and from which it can greatly benefit.

Perhaps a first step toward putting together a global collective is to acknowledge that everyone in the collective matters equally, and that means truly acting and living that out day-to-day. In so doing, we can open up discussions of what it means to truly value one another as people...completely aside from purely commercial and sexual wants, demands, and so forth...but simply as people and as friends. This in turn could then open up a space to discuss how we begin to get there from where we are. Of how the things we do and the way we live our lives now might need to change...might have to change. In order to allow us to both live sustainably with Gaia and one another. In order to truly see and value one another an individuals, as friends, and as brothers & sisters in spirit.

Most women have a treasure trove of simple wisdom and piercing social commentary to contribute simply from their own perspectives, simply from the lives they have lived. And we need that wisdom as a society, in addition to bringing the voices of men to the table as well...particularly the ones they hide from an often harsh society regarding their deepest needs and emotions, and how they might start to go about meeting these valid, human needs in healthy, sustainable ways that consider the highest good of the other equally to their own.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Mr Interesting]

Instead of what I'm working with being something I'd be in charge of, or even something I'd put together in a robust way before unleashing, I'm more of the opinion that I work out, in the public eye, what it is that suits me and that at any particular point people might take what I've been offering and do exactly what suits them specifically.

This then is more specifically about showing the often messy and disjointed, scrambling for effect, nature of what creativity seems more to be about and in this regard hopefully greater acceptance of that less locked way of doing things which can be more open to it's own possibilities. People might prefer a less chaotic assemblage to know exactly what they might be doing something for but at the same time this risks them doing too much of what might have already been done so having less of the well laid out and bullet pointed and more of the what might this be for you approach might allow people to find what it is concerns them most.

And there already seem to be lots of these collective approaches formed under certain monikers and so this needs consideration too and not that they, these others conform, but that enough similarity exists that they combine naturally from within without needing the chosen label they might be under to win out... it's what something stands for and works for then that is more important than what it says it stands for, proof in the pudding as it were.

And as for labelling and connotative laden words which may have meant one thing but have taken on new meaning aligned with a general subconscious fear in society, it's not for us to chuck the baby out with the bath water, as in deny those words their place imho simply because they have become lost to us but to re-own them, I think, with a conscious underpinning that allows them breadth of interpretation beyond the skin that has held them until now.

Stick and stones and all that breaking of bones, as it were, came to most of us very early, the idea that name calling was a nothing not to cower under but watch out for sticks and stones!

I was brought up in a profoundly multi cultural setting almost decades before society at large faced such possibilities and name calling, used outside derogatorily, was for us a creative pursuit that bound us in many deep and abiding ways. It gave us outer societies unsubtle and skin deep branding of us and then bounced about and thrown about like toys made us search deeper for the us that was strong and unique in our being.

So in a sense I am somewhat mistrustful of societies aversion to this type of thing almost as if it is the same original name calling whereby from outside they deny us our ways of defining ourselves, which isn't the paramount idea at all, so much as a fence to climb to create strengths, a way for us to dig deeper in non-acceptance of such shallow definitions while at the same time being able to realise that something is driving these people to need to see those differences. Personally then I prefer this honesty than the politically correctness that hides under a mantel of preferred terms and possibly pushes deeper the willingness to bring to the surface things which can then be found as useless once, in a battle of difference, we actually find similarity.

But really I have no idea what this is. I have a few things that concern me and I'd like a way to address these things and even whilst I have a way to do this the deliver system itself almost denies they'll have any impact of note, stifle the discussion even simply by the way we've learned to admit the discussion is relevant only by it's delivery.

Of note to me was something Banksy said, that english counter terrorist artist, and I say counter terrorist because he counters the terrorism of capitalism and property.
http://www.adweek.com/files/imagecache/node-blog/blogs/banksy-on-advertising.jpg
This then is somewhat combatant and a little over indulgent but it's anger is at least honest and therefore penetrating.

And best of all it raises the question of what is the public space and offers a way to re-own that public space. A permission of sorts to take up that call to re-own and even redefine what is the public space.

What's important for me then is not that we allow our perceptions of what the public space is to be given to the supposed servants, governance, to decide where and when such pronouncements are deemed unworthy of our public space which has only served to allow the advertising industry to get more subtle and deeper into our psyches by making the interface politically correct... but to take the initiative ourselves and make the public space our space without permissions except our own honesty and willingness to make it what we think might work.

Less anger though.... and more fun!

[Mr Interesting]

And there goes another complete silliness.

Seems to be like this now where I kinda grab at something which'll give me a foothold in the world and push it forward with what interest in such things is still occurring but then within much smaller time spaces becoming further and further apart I just drop it without much regard for the initial passion and ability to respond meaningfully that it seemed to initially contain.

And no regrets either, I picked it up and ran with it and it was kinda fun, but then, as is usual, where I am and what needs doing right here and right now just came in with a precedence it's harder and harder to ignore.

Not that it didn't offer up some quite good ideas though which may come in useful even if it's just for that added perspective element and then again who am I to discount that it might not be gaining momentum in the sidelines, whatever they are, and that it won't actually leap out again at some new juncture calling 'Ride me, ride me Gallant knight of your own worthiness, come herald the new unobstructed silliness of existence and laugh, yes laugh so deep you explode into relevance only the clouds will rain upon to cool such divine passions!'

[naturesflow]

A system within a system.

We are.

:)

[Mr Interesting]

:)

... within even more systems. Doppler as it goes past and recedes!

[naturesflow]

What comes to mind in my statement is the nature of the dual flush toilet system.

A really inventive piece of work that not only serves to save water but also serves to allow you to choose from not *ONE* button but two buttons to press as one whole system..

We have a choice created.

Woo hoo.

(now things get really exciting creatively) Woo hoo again..lol

[naturesflow]

:)

... within even more systems. Doppler as it goes past and recedes!

Only if you perceive them as more and more, more becomes less, becomes simple..


One big world, where are you experiencing yourself fully in life within that one big world?

[Mr Interesting]

Funnily enough I opened this thread again just as pussy No2 came and sat on my lap then spent about 4-5 minutes doing what I've come to understand as the Orgasm dance. It's seems that maybe the regular just coming and sitting on my lap in the mornings doesn't work as I get up after five minutes to go do something or shift myself in some way where pussy then has to go wait in the sidelines before she can do it all again so, possibly, instead of accepting that this particular possy only works in five to ten minute cycles she brought her own references to what life is and decided the old magic of the Orgasm dance would suitably put me under a pussycat spell and make me stay still for longer and she, as she is a she, could get into pussycat dream world for a more robust and purring filled definitive stay... who knows, but now I've completely lost track of why I'm here and what I might have written down.

Actually I thought you'd put two words in the wrong place but looking again it looks as if, indeed, they are placed as intended.

"Only if you perceive them as more and more, more becomes less, becomes simple..


One big world, where are you experiencing yourself fully in life within that one big world?"

where 'you are' experiencing... was how I felt it but it is actually ' where 'are you' experiencing... and it was the question mark at the end that solved that particular conundrum.

Good question... I don't know. It could be right here at home where all the work of landscaping and garden building has me right there pulling weeds and moving things about which raises the reality of just being in sync with the natural world as it plays out it's own version of what matters and what is and will be but then again it's also me going out into the world for little adventures being a part, required or not who's to say, of that great pleading for relevance which is human society. (Herein I'd left again this place and pussy was displaced and then after I arrived again she has just finished her dance and is again settled and these two pussycats, on this rainy morning (and all other times), help me immensely with what might be this thing of fully as they beckon within their own quietness and playfulness, and even audacious killing, that many other things are afoot)

Ah, but what even is me? There is seemingly less of a me and more of a fully is likely the definitive answer.

[naturesflow]

Funnily enough I opened this thread again just as pussy No2 came and sat on my lap then spent about 4-5 minutes doing what I've come to understand as the Orgasm dance. It's seems that maybe the regular just coming and sitting on my lap in the mornings doesn't work as I get up after five minutes to go do something or shift myself in some way where pussy then has to go wait in the sidelines before she can do it all again so, possibly, instead of accepting that this particular possy only works in five to ten minute cycles she brought her own references to what life is and decided the old magic of the Orgasm dance would suitably put me under a pussycat spell and make me stay still for longer and she, as she is a she, could get into pussycat dream world for a more robust and purring filled definitive stay... who knows, but now I've completely lost track of why I'm here and what I might have written down.

Actually I thought you'd put two words in the wrong place but looking again it looks as if, indeed, they are placed as intended.

"Only if you perceive them as more and more, more becomes less, becomes simple..


One big world, where are you experiencing yourself fully in life within that one big world?"

where 'you are' experiencing... was how I felt it but it is actually ' where 'are you' experiencing... and it was the question mark at the end that solved that particular conundrum.

Good question... I don't know. It could be right here at home where all the work of landscaping and garden building has me right there pulling weeds and moving things about which raises the reality of just being in sync with the natural world as it plays out it's own version of what matters and what is and will be but then again it's also me going out into the world for little adventures being a part, required or not who's to say, of that great pleading for relevance which is human society. (Herein I'd left again this place and pussy was displaced and then after I arrived again she has just finished her dance and is again settled and these two pussycats, on this rainy morning (and all other times), help me immensely with what might be this thing of fully as they beckon within their own quietness and playfulness, and even audacious killing, that many other things are afoot)

Ah, but what even is me? There is seemingly less of a me and more of a fully is likely the definitive answer.


Cats are great. Just being as they are, reaching out to have their needs met in the way they enjoy and wish to seek comfort. Being close to us as part of that picture in their world. I guess we are a great representation of their early behaviours and needs connected to their main source of the mother cat and all going on one with that picture. (siblings/personality add a little to the mix) She (the cats mother) provided a source that sustained and gave them exactly what they needed for their growth and survival in their early beginnings if that space was allowed and was able to run its course without too much interference. Of course as their owners and caretakers, if we are open to allow them to get close, we become that source, we (those that do) take care of them and love them and allow them to be as they need. Of course it requires us to be present with them to allow that space to open for them naturally. We really do become an important source in every way if that shared space is opened by them and us. Trust is huge I guess. Of course what kind of source various from one to the next. (bit like humans really) That little orgasm dance ritual is shifted slightly, the dance before settling may not feed them the same way, but still it is comforting and settling for them I guess. They seem to still manage to go there in some form, mimicking their earliest behaviours of their first connection to source. OF course the *process* opening up the most important source that was provided for their survival and growth, a source of sustaining flow/food. But the whole space shows a source of connection I guess, just by observing this little orgasm dance that they do on our lap or their favourite blanket or bed. A lovely shared space remembered in that earliest memory. In those re enactments, its so cool to observe how that re enactment feels for us too. That closeness and awareness of them in that space can feel so lovely and comforting. It works both ways I guess. We stroke them, connect and provide that touch they shared with their mother too. All the while a lovely shared space of giving and receiving, remembered all round.

Cat and dreams makes me curious somewhat, so when they finally nod off on your lap if they do, I often wonder what they dream about?

Going back to the mother cat moments. I love how they really go into a full immersion one with the flow of milk. Their little paws pressing in and out, helping that flow along. They know instinctively that it takes two paws to work that little nipple and sustain themselves. They look so relaxed and sleepy at times, yet they just know exactly what to do and how to do it, even with their eyes closed. Its so much fun when you observe a large group of kittens in this space. Each have their own little food supply, working and focused intently on that flow. You do see a few little and bigger adjustments in that shared space, it can get a little cramped when their is a lot of them vying for space to stretch out, find room to be comfortable and connect to their own private food supple, but I guess, ultimately it seems to work extremely well, as long as each one has the *source button* and gets a feed, that seems to be the key. When the focus and flow is feeding and working well, the rest they seem oblivious too. :cool: The experience itself, provides for them a whole host of things to experience I guess (sometimes in all the shoving and moving about, they might cop a kick in the head by the brother or sister, have to twist themselves inside out to stay attached, but as long as that *Attachement* holds they seem pretty satisfied ) allows for them to receive exactly what they need to grow up into (hopefully) healthy adult cats, who are sustained and survive with full bellies and early memories of pushing, shoving, feeding, sleepy, relaxing comforting moments, where in the end the don't care how they land afterwards in that sleepy dreamy state. They just land wherever that space allows. Sometimes on their brothers or sisters head, upside down, twisted and curled, bunched together in one big pussy cat pile up. Or on our lap if we are lucky to share that space with their mother and siblings. What a life! :wink:

It amazes me how cats (all our animals) teach us stuff that correlates in ways we as humans just don't fully understand sometimes. I love these moments where I get to look more closely at the whole space of another little but very significant member of our world. :cool:

I love cats.

[Mr Interesting]

Indeed, and dogs too.

Yesterday I was out all day with Sarah going through the inorganic piles and she had her dog along and he's one of those neat puppies which is like a very old person being alive in a childs body so all skippy larky but with a quiet watching grace that excuses us all our gross cloth covered humanity and then at the end of the day we're back at Doug's place, where my car is, and I, before asking, beckon the puppy into the house to met Doug's old old cat sitting on the end of the bed as close to the lit fire as it's possible to be. I know the dog doesn't chase cats but I don't know Kali's response but the dog comes in and the old cat does nothing except stare him out until, it feels like, he understands the rules of her house and human.

Since watching part of a video that stated cats and dogs are very much alive in fifth dimensional realities, as well as ours, I have added a watching and feeling edge to when I'm near them and I had fun telling my two friends this, as we all sat around the fire, enjoying the breadth of weirdness I'm allowed and which they don't particularly share at least out on such edges simply because I feel a part of them wonders at my creative pursuits and possibly feel that it is owing to such eccentricities which would otherwise be easily ignored without a proof as artists understand proofs.

And today comes in sunny whilst yesterday we were rained on and out we'll go again alike scruffy anthropologists, all three of us and the pooch, and this is my Disneyland by a different Walt... the wit man hitman.