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jonesboy
16-04-2015, 05:04 PM
Self Identity – The Key to Spontaneous Living (http://nonduality.org/2014/02/09/5160-self-identity-the-key-to-spontaneous-living/#more-3363)

by Colin Drake


Below follows a simple method to investigate the nature of reality starting with one’s day-to-day experience. Each step should be considered until one experiences, or ‘sees’, its validity before moving on to the following step. If you reach a step where you do not find this possible, continue on regardless in the same way, and hopefully the flow of the investigation will make this step clear. By all means examine each step critically but with an open mind, for if you only look for ‘holes’ that’s all you will find!

1. Consider the following statement: ‘Life, for each of us, is just a series of moment-to-moment experiences’. These experiences start when we are born and continue until we die, rushing headlong after each other, so that they seem to merge into a whole that we call ‘my life’. However, if we stop to look we can readily see that, for each of us, every moment is just an experience.

2. Any moment of experience has only three elements: thoughts (including all mental images), sensations (everything sensed by the body and its sense organs) and Awareness of these thoughts and sensations. Emotions and feelings are a combination of thought and sensation.

3. Thoughts and sensations are ephemeral, that is they come and go, and are objects, i.e. ‘things’ that are perceived.

4. Awareness is the constant subject, the ‘perceiver’ of thoughts and sensations and that which is always present. Even during sleep there is Awareness of dreams and of the quality of that sleep; and there is also Awareness of sensations; if a sensation becomes strong enough, such as a sound or uncomfortable sensation, one will wake up.

5. All thoughts and sensations appear in Awareness, exist in Awareness, and subside back into Awareness. Before any particular thought or sensation there is effortless Awareness of ‘what is’: the sum of all thoughts and sensations occurring at any given instant. During the thought or sensation in question there is effortless Awareness of it within ‘what is’. Then when it has gone there is still effortless Awareness of ‘what is’.

6. So the body/mind is experienced as a flow of ephemeral objects appearing in this Awareness, the ever present subject. For each of us any external object or thing is experienced as a combination of thought and sensation, i.e. you may see it, touch it, know what it is called, and so on. The point is that for us to be aware of anything, real or imaginary, requires thought about and/or sensation of that thing and it is Awareness of these thoughts and sensations that constitutes our experience.

7. Therefore this Awareness is the constant substratum in which all things appear to arise, exist and subside. In addition, all living things rely on Awareness of their environment to exist and their behaviour is directly affected by this. At the level of living cells and above this is self-evident, but it has been shown that even electrons change their behaviour when (aware of) being observed! Thus this Awareness exists at a deeper level than body/mind (and matter/energy[14]) and we are this Awareness!

8. This does not mean that at a surface level we are not the mind and body, for they arise in, are perceived by and subside back into Awareness, which is the deepest and most fundamental level of our being. However, if we choose to identify with this deepest level – Awareness – (the perceiver) rather than the surface level, mind/body (the perceived), then thoughts and sensations are seen for what they truly are, just ephemeral objects which come and go, leaving Awareness itself totally unaffected

sunsoul
16-04-2015, 06:17 PM
I thought that the awareness focus was okay. Some good descriptions although sometimes a little cloudy or unclear. What is the relationship between thought and emotion? Which arises first upon a sensation?

There is also a lot left out like time, conditioning, suffering, ego and such.

As a pointer some food for awareness!

Free1
16-04-2015, 06:52 PM
Thanks.

We are not even that.

He has not experienced this awareness as it is. He has experienced something, and taken it to have features like being constant, an ever present subject, and a constant substratum.

What he has experienced is one experience, and then another, where this constant ever present substratum is just another experience, even though profound.

We are not even that.

Maybe take another turn at step 8 and do not identify it as you or your own.

But each and everyone has to find out for themselves, what is at 8.

jonesboy
16-04-2015, 08:41 PM
I thought that the awareness focus was okay. Some good descriptions although sometimes a little cloudy or unclear. What is the relationship between thought and emotion? Which arises first upon a sensation?

There is also a lot left out like time, conditioning, suffering, ego and such.

As a pointer some food for awareness!

Hi Sunsoul,

This is a basic pointer not the end all be all. It is for those who think they are already enlightened and nothing to do.

As far as your questions regarding emotion and what comes first.

Emotions start in the heart. When we have an emotion you will notice it also has a physical feeling associated with it.

Pull up your last emotional upset and notice the physical feeling that goes with it.

An obstruction/emotion starts out as a physical feeling. Our brain that likes to find and work on problems. Associates these feelings with mind stories.

So the physical sensation comes first and then the mind stories. That is why I keep talking about working with the emotional body to lessen the energy of the physical sensation and at the same time bringing us to the present moment thereby stopping the mind stories :hug3:

jonesboy
16-04-2015, 08:45 PM
Thanks.

We are not even that.

He has not experienced this awareness as it is. He has experienced something, and taken it to have features like being constant, an ever present subject, and a constant substratum.

What he has experienced is one experience, and then another, where this constant ever present substratum is just another experience, even though profound.

We are not even that.

Maybe take another turn at step 8 and do not identify it as you or your own.

But each and everyone has to find out for themselves, what is at 8.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Colin Drake does experience oneness/awareness.

These ideas are taken straight from textbook vipassana, three characteristics: impermance, unsatisfactoriness, and no-self.

If you could show some reference to something beyond awareness to help with what you are talking about I would love to read it.

Take care.

sunsoul
16-04-2015, 08:56 PM
In the original post it says:

'Emotions and feelings are a combination of thought and sensation.'

You can have a feeling without thought? That above sentence doesn't make it sound like that it is so..

jonesboy
16-04-2015, 09:08 PM
Yes, you can ... try it.

Putting our awareness on our emotional body stops the mind from being in the future or the past. In the present just like with meditation on a rock or the breath, we are meditating in a different way. We are focusing on the physical sensation.

The goal in all this isn't to stop the mental stories. You can't. The goal is to not be attached to them.

In all honesty sunsoul, I am residing more and more in the Natural State during the day. The silence is deep almost like a drug but there are still thoughts.. I just let them float on by.

When I do have emotional upsets I use to feel the sensation in my heart. Now I let them go into emptiness but I am still with the emotional feeling in my body.

Free1
17-04-2015, 04:25 AM
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Colin Drake does experience oneness/awareness.

These ideas are taken straight from textbook vipassana, three characteristics: impermance, unsatisfactoriness, and no-self.

If you could show some reference to something beyond awareness to help with what you are talking about I would love to read it.

Take care.
What he is talking about is impermanent, but he takes it to be a constant ever present substratum, and he identifies with it, even though it is no-self. He does not see that.

Knowledge is only a heavy burden if we carry textbooks or references to texts.

revolver
17-04-2015, 05:00 AM
Going by your title of this thread, I would have to say that, in reality there is no path, any path will only take us away from where we already are, we cannot be anywhere else, except where we are, and where we are is who we are. But saying this, yes many seem to need to follow a path until they wake up and realize that they were always where they were trying to be, that is in Consciousness, Enlightenment is here and Now.

Gem
17-04-2015, 06:29 AM
Going by your title of this thread, I would have to say that, in reality there is no path, any path will only take us away from where we already are, we cannot be anywhere else, except where we are, and where we are is who we are. But saying this, yes many seem to need to follow a path until they wake up and realize that they were always where they were trying to be, that is in Consciousness, Enlightenment is here and Now.

I usually say a similar thing like there is no path to where you are.

I think the 'direct path' usually refers to the self inquiry. Here's Spira's version of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9kvq1qeAw

luntrusreality
17-04-2015, 11:40 AM
I usually say a similar thing like there is no path to where you are.

I think the 'direct path' usually refers to the self inquiry. Here's Spira's version of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9kvq1qeAw

Yes, instead of following a guideline of different stages, praciteces, etc. etc.
the "Direct Path" always just points back to the "Meditation" of being aware that you are aware. And exploring this fact in different ways maybe like investigating on perception etc.

But the direct path as a teaching method ususally always goes right for the one single thing we can know for certain.
It is not supposed to be a shortcut though, it just resonates better for many people

jonesboy
17-04-2015, 02:50 PM
Thank you Luntrusreality,

Yes the Direct Path is a method usally associated with a few teachers such as Ramana Maharshi, Krishna Menon, Greg Good, Rupert Spira and Jean Klein to name a few.

Here is another example from Greg Goode:

https://youtu.be/ZYjI6gh9RxE?list=PLmtH85vTKzfnbrQg6Ob_g1nSffPqRZfs T

revolver
18-04-2015, 02:32 AM
I usually say a similar thing like there is no path to where you are.

I think the 'direct path' usually refers to the self inquiry. Here's Spira's version of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9kvq1qeAw
Yea not bad, I like seeing how other people present Awareness, and talking about their own experience's.

ajay00
19-04-2015, 11:05 AM
What he is talking about is impermanent, but he takes it to be a constant ever present substratum, and he identifies with it, even though it is no-self. He does not see that.



The no-self, as taught in Buddhism, is depicting the illusory existence of the ego, which does not really exist.

Where there is awareness, there is no ego. And viceversa.

You have jumbled up both.

Free1
19-04-2015, 11:26 AM
I'm not sure.