Spiritual discussion making people uncomfortable

[Verunia]

Last night I was hanging out with some friends. I wasn't really aware that 3 of them were very devoted to believing in God. I think they are Christians. Anyway, myself and one other person are not and at some point we began discussing things about life, personal growth, the nature of right and wrong, and all of that fun stuff.

The person I was talking to had a lot of questions- I really liked it! I found the discussion challenging, but enlightening. I could also see he was suffering in his life pretty heavily and clearly had not been able to talk about certain things. I had the opportunity to share what I've learned so far, through a spiritual lens I suppose, not really gravitating towards whether my way was right or not- just that it could help him to see how someone else has been working through their problems.

This discussion seemed to really make certain people uncomfortable. I mean, one of my friends was pretending not to hear a thing but I could clearly undoubtedly feel he was getting really angry. I could tell they all didn't like to have their beliefs prodded and poked at. But honestly, I find that so frustrating. We were openly challenging and sharing view points. It's not hard. If having your beliefs challenged makes you so uncomfortable, then I would see it as an opportunity to be more open and accepting. But no... they just really wanted us to stop talking. I thought we were making great progress where they just saw it as pointless banter, when it wasn't banter at all. At least I don't think it was.

And now I think there were negative repercussions from the whole thing. I'm shocked and rather amused to be honest. :D ...

[Molearner]

This discussion seemed to really make certain people uncomfortable. I mean, one of my friends was pretending not to hear a thing but I could clearly undoubtedly feel he was getting really angry. I could tell they all didn't like to have their beliefs prodded and poked at. But honestly, I find that so frustrating. We were openly challenging and sharing view points. It's not hard. If having your beliefs challenged makes you so uncomfortable, then I would see it as an opportunity to be more open and accepting. But no... they just really wanted us to stop talking. I thought we were making great progress where they just saw it as pointless banter, when it wasn't banter at all. At least I don't think it was.

And now I think there were negative repercussions from the whole thing. I'm shocked and rather amused to be honest. :D ...

Verunia,

Christians and non-Christians alike share identical problems. They are locked in their respective comfort zones. Their egos make them believe that they have everything figured out and their growth stops at that point. In the case of Christians they simply do not understand the depth and richness of the philosophy that they claim to ascribe to. Scripture tells us..."Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your minds". While you might perceive and experience short-term repercussions from this sharing......ultimately the long-term effects can only be beneficial. Christians specifically are called to 'repent'. The Greek word most commonly used for 'repent' is 'metanoia'. Metanoia literally means changing the mind. RIP........you have done a good thing.....:)

[desert rat]

A lot of people are locked in to there belief system . They dont care to hear any thing out side there belief system . We all have the God given right to believe as we wish . I dont know if my beliefs are any more right than any one elses .

[Moonglow]

Last night I was hanging out with some friends. I wasn't really aware that 3 of them were very devoted to believing in God. I think they are Christians. Anyway, myself and one other person are not and at some point we began discussing things about life, personal growth, the nature of right and wrong, and all of that fun stuff.

The person I was talking to had a lot of questions- I really liked it! I found the discussion challenging, but enlightening. I could also see he was suffering in his life pretty heavily and clearly had not been able to talk about certain things. I had the opportunity to share what I've learned so far, through a spiritual lens I suppose, not really gravitating towards whether my way was right or not- just that it could help him to see how someone else has been working through their problems.

This discussion seemed to really make certain people uncomfortable. I mean, one of my friends was pretending not to hear a thing but I could clearly undoubtedly feel he was getting really angry. I could tell they all didn't like to have their beliefs prodded and poked at. But honestly, I find that so frustrating. We were openly challenging and sharing view points. It's not hard. If having your beliefs challenged makes you so uncomfortable, then I would see it as an opportunity to be more open and accepting. But no... they just really wanted us to stop talking. I thought we were making great progress where they just saw it as pointless banter, when it wasn't banter at all. At least I don't think it was.

And now I think there were negative repercussions from the whole thing. I'm shocked and rather amused to be honest. :D ...
Hello Verunia,

I feel many have his/her trigger points and areas in which one may feel uncomfortable in being open. Just look at some of the forums and social sights out there.:smile:

So, I see that what you describe as not being that unusual. I myself have had discussions which made others feel a bit uncomfortable, suppose. But, is it just a defense mechanism one may have? Can't one speak up and say that the discussion is making him/her uncomfortable? Suppose some can and some can not.

To me, may be a defense of some kind. Then looking at this, from my perspective, if feeling defensive and offended, then how much may this be saying as to what one may hold as being true?

Suppose it may depend as to where one is at in life and with oneself. I have learned there are some I can have an open, free flowing discussion with, while there are others that I simply don't discuss certain matters with.

It may be a "spiritual" and it may be a "social" thing or combination there of.

Find discourse may occur in any discussion whether it be spiritual, political, social, sexual, ect. Sometimes may not always know how the other feels until it happens.

Would say give them some space and if they hold it against you, well IMO then it is on them.

Interesting topic, thank you.

[lenvdb64]

Blocks created by ego and conditioning I guess?

[dryad]

If they just thought you were wrong they would not have been threatened by it. If they wanted to convince you of their point of view they would have joined the discussion. The only reason to be scared of the discussion is if they were worried you might change their minds in which case they need to learn more about their own religion so that their faith would not so easily be shaken. If they really thought sin could be caught from a discussion they would not talk about the devil and going to hell so much for fear they might taint themselves.

[Verunia]

So, I see that what you describe as not being that unusual. I myself have had discussions which made others feel a bit uncomfortable, suppose. But, is it just a defense mechanism one may have? Can't one speak up and say that the discussion is making him/her uncomfortable? Suppose some can and some can not.


Indeed, it is hardly unusual! But since I've been on this website, in my experience, discussions have not usually taken to such an awkward and heavy atmosphere. There are definitely disagreements and definitely some frustration when people talk about topics on here but my experience with the people last night felt different. I'm not used to it ending up like that.

You would think people would speak up. It would have been nice if someone had stood up and said, "Hey, this discussion is making me feel uncomfortable." I know I would have stopped it right there as I respect what other people believe. I was hardly out to make anyone feel like that! I went on feeling like it wasn't a problem and that they just didn't have anything to contribute. Well, now I know why they didn't.

I'm just not used to it. I love feeling uncomfortable and being challenged. I don't want to be stuck to any beliefs. I understand that's not for everyone. :dontknow: But honestly, I really don't understand them.

One of the few contributions made to our discussion from one of them was, "Everyone falls of the path. And everyone will get back on. It's just a matter of time." after we had both made it obvious we're not God fearing. Which I didn't even bother getting into because obviously, you're not open to questioning that. And that's what bothers me about faith most of the time- it's so strict, worded in such a way that can be so one sided. Of course you're going to believe it is the right way... it wasn't presented as being anything other than right. That, to me, is highly delusional.

The only reason to be scared of the discussion is if they were worried you might change their minds in which case they need to learn more about their own religion so that their faith would not so easily be shaken.

This is how I feel but I am conflicted because I try not to make the assumption that this is the case. Who am I to tell someone how they feel? I myself respect them because this is what they chose and because they chose it, it's who they are. There are things I will always disagree with when speaking with a Christian but it's not like I want to persuade you to stop following your faith. I feel like your assessment is the right one because open discussion, honesty, and acceptance are signs of someone who is comfortable with their connection to the world...

[lenvdb64]

Its amazing that.

I used to be a Born Again Charismatic Christian.
I had friends who are pastoring their own churches.
Since my own Soul Awakening and change of my Spiritual Path, I have had numerous discussions with many of these lovely people.

What I find with many of them, is that they are so rooted and dug in on their church, their beliefs etc, that for them to even dare having a Soul Awakening, and having to face their congregations, and tell them that they have been misleading them for so long, would have disastrous consequences.
Giving up on your church, your income, having people who depend on you for their spiritual guidance because that are incapable of forming a connection to the Divine Within, is just a no go zone for them.

This is very sad, as it rings true in the words of Jesus about having to give up everything you hold dear if you want to enter the Kingdom of God (Become Soul Aware).

So they keep people out of the Kingdom in order to keep people dependent on their spiritual guidance and church membership.

They avoid any form of discussion on matter Spiritual with me now.

[BlueSky]

Last night I was hanging out with some friends. I wasn't really aware that 3 of them were very devoted to believing in God. I think they are Christians. Anyway, myself and one other person are not and at some point we began discussing things about life, personal growth, the nature of right and wrong, and all of that fun stuff.

The person I was talking to had a lot of questions- I really liked it! I found the discussion challenging, but enlightening. I could also see he was suffering in his life pretty heavily and clearly had not been able to talk about certain things. I had the opportunity to share what I've learned so far, through a spiritual lens I suppose, not really gravitating towards whether my way was right or not- just that it could help him to see how someone else has been working through their problems.

This discussion seemed to really make certain people uncomfortable. I mean, one of my friends was pretending not to hear a thing but I could clearly undoubtedly feel he was getting really angry. I could tell they all didn't like to have their beliefs prodded and poked at. But honestly, I find that so frustrating. We were openly challenging and sharing view points. It's not hard. If having your beliefs challenged makes you so uncomfortable, then I would see it as an opportunity to be more open and accepting. But no... they just really wanted us to stop talking. I thought we were making great progress where they just saw it as pointless banter, when it wasn't banter at all. At least I don't think it was.

And now I think there were negative repercussions from the whole thing. I'm shocked and rather amused to be honest. :D ...

And still... It's all good. Everybody walked away different and seeds where planted even if those seeds were simply to look at oneself when another's subject if choice makes you feel uncomfortable.
It sounded like a true heart based conversation where no one was trying to one up or degrade another. A divine conversation if you will.

[Verunia]

Its amazing that.

I used to be a Born Again Charismatic Christian.
I had friends who are pastoring their own churches.
Since my own Soul Awakening and change of my Spiritual Path, I have had numerous discussions with many of these lovely people.

What I find with many of them, is that they are so rooted and dug in on their church, their beliefs etc, that for them to even dare having a Soul Awakening, and having to face their congregations, and tell them that they have been misleading them for so long, would have disastrous consequences.
Giving up on your church, your income, having people who depend on you for their spiritual guidance because that are incapable of forming a connection to the Divine Within, is just a no go zone for them.

This is very sad, as it rings true in the words of Jesus about having to give up everything you hold dear if you want to enter the Kingdom of God (Become Soul Aware).

So they keep people out of the Kingdom in order to keep people dependent on their spiritual guidance and church membership.

They avoid any form of discussion on matter Spiritual with me now.

This is truly sad, in a sense that they are being taken advantage of. I hate it. I hate how religion can be used as a tool to screw with people.

Don't even get me started on the TV evangelists... they are the biggest crooks going.

[Molearner]

[QUOTE=lenvdb64Since my own Soul Awakening and change of my Spiritual Path, I have had numerous discussions with many of these lovely people.


This is very sad, as it rings true in the words of Jesus about having to give up everything you hold dear if you want to enter the Kingdom of God (Become Soul Aware).

So they keep people out of the Kingdom in order to keep people dependent on their spiritual guidance and church membership.

They avoid any form of discussion on matter Spiritual with me now.[/QUOTE]

lenvdb64,

I used to have similar criticisms of the clergy but not so much anymore. I really believe in the saying of.........."When the student is ready, the teacher will appear". A large number of people are simply incapable of receiving a higher teaching. Oftentimes, this is only possible with maturity and the loosening of the holds of the ego. Review your own Soul Awakening......it is out of the ordinary if it comes at a young age. Furthermore, in many cases, it does not come at the hands of the clergy. Many that pursue the spiritual path become disenchanted with religion and remove themselves from the sphere of influence of the clergy. I would suspect that a surprising number of the clergy could be helpful when the student has shown himself to be ready. They(the students) just did not stay the course. It is simply difficult to preach of advanced courses when the basic and intermediate courses have not been mastered. So I would suspect the rationale is to 'benefit' the many as opposed to 'enlightening' the few. It represents a trade-off of sorts.....whether right or wrong.

[baro-san]

This is truly sad, in a sense that they are being taken advantage of. I hate it. I hate how religion can be used as a tool to screw with people.

Don't even get me started on the TV evangelists... they are the biggest crooks going.
It's simple:
- you think they're wrong
- they think you're wrong
- neither you nor them think that can be wrong
Solution: everybody do whatever they believe is right, and gauge it with the Universe/God 's feedback, over time.

[athribiristan]

I thought we were making great progress where they just saw it as pointless banter, when it wasn't banter at all. At least I don't think it was.

And now I think there were negative repercussions from the whole thing. I'm shocked and rather amused to be honest. :D ...


Funny how two people can share the same experience and come away with completely different conclusions. My strategy has been to learn the language of the person I am talking to. I go to weekly bible study so that I can effectively speak to Christians without insulting their faith. Its funny how calling something meditation elicits a completely different reaction than calling the same thing prayer.

[Moonglow]

Indeed, it is hardly unusual! But since I've been on this website, in my experience, discussions have not usually taken to such an awkward and heavy atmosphere. There are definitely disagreements and definitely some frustration when people talk about topics on here but my experience with the people last night felt different. I'm not used to it ending up like that.

You would think people would speak up. It would have been nice if someone had stood up and said, "Hey, this discussion is making me feel uncomfortable." I know I would have stopped it right there as I respect what other people believe. I was hardly out to make anyone feel like that! I went on feeling like it wasn't a problem and that they just didn't have anything to contribute. Well, now I know why they didn't.

I'm just not used to it. I love feeling uncomfortable and being challenged. I don't want to be stuck to any beliefs. I understand that's not for everyone. :dontknow: But honestly, I really don't understand them.

One of the few contributions made to our discussion from one of them was, "Everyone falls of the path. And everyone will get back on. It's just a matter of time." after we had both made it obvious we're not God fearing. Which I didn't even bother getting into because obviously, you're not open to questioning that. And that's what bothers me about faith most of the time- it's so strict, worded in such a way that can be so one sided. Of course you're going to believe it is the right way... it wasn't presented as being anything other than right. That, to me, is highly delusional.



This is how I feel but I am conflicted because I try not to make the assumption that this is the case. Who am I to tell someone how they feel? I myself respect them because this is what they chose and because they chose it, it's who they are. There are things I will always disagree with when speaking with a Christian but it's not like I want to persuade you to stop following your faith. I feel like your assessment is the right one because open discussion, honesty, and acceptance are signs of someone who is comfortable with their connection to the world...
Hi Verunia,

Faith is very personal for many and although a discussion may be occurring in which each one is just stating how he/she may feel. believe, and/or see things, there are times in which those invisible lines gets crossed. Atleast this is what I have experienced.

Yes, at times it can dumb found me as well. Why are they being so defensive? Now defense can take on many disguises and the one in which one becomes silent, yet it can be felt something is bothering them can be a bit frustrating. Especially when it is felt no foul was given.

So, at times I take it a lesson learned. Now I know where I can go with them and where to draw the line and respectfully hold back.

It is difficult, especially, when such feelings arise with someone I thought I knew fairly well or he/she seemed interested in the discussion then suddenly turn a bit cold.

I don't know how another fully feels unless he/she communicates with me.
It sounds to me you have a respectful attitude towards another belief/faith and perhaps this will help to see you through what is going on once the dust settles.

Some, suppose, just need a security blanket of some kind and are just the way they are. Can say it's fear, but may be also that is just their comfort zone and they just don't know how to react when challenged. Perhaps they didn't want to offend you as well and felt it was best to just remain silent. Just throwing out a thought here.

It does make me wonder as well at times why some may react the way they do. Most of the time just let each go their own way and respect that (if neither are pushing one to be like the other).

[Verunia]

I go to weekly bible study so that I can effectively speak to Christians without insulting their faith.

That's really commendable. However, if people are going to become upset and offended over a conversation that wasn't even about their faith but merely talked about other possibilities for our existence in the universe, I can't say that would have even helped me avoid my problem entirely.

Perhaps they didn't want to offend you as well and felt it was best to just remain silent. Just throwing out a thought here.

True. I didn't even think of this.

[Molearner]

Yes, at times it can dumb found me as well. Why are they being so defensive? Now defense can take on many disguises and the one in which one becomes silent, yet it can be felt something is bothering them can be a bit frustrating. Especially when it is felt no foul was given.

It sounds to me you have a respectful attitude towards another belief/faith and perhaps this will help to see you through what is going on once the dust settles.

Some, suppose, just need a security blanket of some kind and are just the way they are. Can say it's fear, but may be also that is just their comfort zone and they just don't know how to react when challenged. Perhaps they didn't want to offend you as well and felt it was best to just remain silent. Just throwing out a thought here.

It does make me wonder as well at times why some may react the way they do. Most of the time just let each go their own way and respect that (if neither are pushing one to be like the other).

Moonglow,

It is Super Bowl Sunday. Let's talk offense and defense. People become defensive when they perceive the offense is winning. Conversely, people become offensive when they perceive the defense is weak. Look at the problem of having dialogue with Islamic ideologists. When it is difficult to defend the indefensible then silence will be the result. Yes, fear is a large component of unfathomable reaction. This fear is a product of the ego.....fear that one's image is under challenge. Aggression is also a program of the ego......the thought that we can prove ourselves right. The very concept of right and wrong is a characteristic of the world of dualism. Dualism should not be a part of the spiritual world.

[Moonglow]

Moonglow,

It is Super Bowl Sunday. Let's talk offense and defense. People become defensive when they perceive the offense is winning. Conversely, people become offensive when they perceive the defense is weak. Look at the problem of having dialogue with Islamic ideologists. When it is difficult to defend the indefensible then silence will be the result. Yes, fear is a large component of unfathomable reaction. This fear is a product of the ego.....fear that one's image is under challenge. Aggression is also a program of the ego......the thought that we can prove ourselves right. The very concept of right and wrong is a characteristic of the world of dualism. Dualism should not be a part of the spiritual world.

Hi Molearner,

Can agree some that Dualism should not be a part of the spiritual world, but it is what is experienced in this life and sometimes with in discussions.

I suppose it depends on whether one is willing to listen to another side or is entrenched in defending one side only.

There is a difference between being silent because one does not know what is being talked about and being silent because one may disapprove of what is being said. Then there is also being silent because one is simply not interested in engaging in the discussion.

We can blame "ego" and yes suppose this plays into it. It can swing both ways though. What may be taken as either offensive or defensive depends on how one looks at the issue or subject at hand. Which, to me, can be a bit of an "ego" thing as well. This is where being open minded may help in reducing the friction that may occur, IMO.

But, I normally don't use the word "ego" when trying to figure out someone.
I ask questions or present points of view and see how it plays out. Yes, this too is a bit of "ego" at play. So guess it is how one uses such, IMO.

Fear is an interesting one, comes in many forms. Sometimes can prevent one from speaking ones mind for fear of offending or past experiences may play into this. Can also create "I'll get them before they get me" type of approach. It can also be fearing that what one knows is being challenged or disrespected, which can lead into a defensive or offensive response.

One can have a lively discussion in which both offense and defense are involved and there is a respect for each other. Much like a good football game, in the end each team may respect the other team, but in the heat of the game each are using both tactics.

You brought some good points for me to reflect on and hope I haven't lead this discussion astray in expressing some view points.

[blackraven]

Last night I was hanging out with some friends. I wasn't really aware that 3 of them were very devoted to believing in God. I think they are Christians. Anyway, myself and one other person are not and at some point we began discussing things about life, personal growth, the nature of right and wrong, and all of that fun stuff.

The person I was talking to had a lot of questions- I really liked it! I found the discussion challenging, but enlightening. I could also see he was suffering in his life pretty heavily and clearly had not been able to talk about certain things. I had the opportunity to share what I've learned so far, through a spiritual lens I suppose, not really gravitating towards whether my way was right or not- just that it could help him to see how someone else has been working through their problems.

This discussion seemed to really make certain people uncomfortable. I mean, one of my friends was pretending not to hear a thing but I could clearly undoubtedly feel he was getting really angry. I could tell they all didn't like to have their beliefs prodded and poked at. But honestly, I find that so frustrating. We were openly challenging and sharing view points. It's not hard. If having your beliefs challenged makes you so uncomfortable, then I would see it as an opportunity to be more open and accepting. But no... they just really wanted us to stop talking. I thought we were making great progress where they just saw it as pointless banter, when it wasn't banter at all. At least I don't think it was.

And now I think there were negative repercussions from the whole thing. I'm shocked and rather amused to be honest. :D ...
Verunia - Reminds me of a recent conversation I had with my parents. My mother and I were talking about paranormal activities and my Dad, an avid church-goer said he wouldn't believe a thing we were talking about unless he witnesses it with his own eyes. He picked up an object on the table and said, "When this lifts off the table and floats across the room on its own, then I will believe." I said, "Well you believe that Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead and yet you haven't witnessed that." But he got very defensive and said, "Now you're talking about Christ!" and then he shot me a piercing look. My mom jumped in then and said, "I believe she made her point." LOL

Same with spirituality as my husband several years ago was uncomfortable with me speaking of anything out of the realm of Catholicism and said it made me sound crazy. Well over several years he's softened and now tells me about all his dreams, strange events in the house and his clairvoyant experiences. I gave up and just let him be and eventually he arrived at where he wanted to be.

Perhaps your friends don't want to hear anything 'spiritual' that doesn't jive with traditional dogmatic religion, but let them live life and figure things out in time and maybe some years in the future, you'll all be walking the same walk. Or maybe not.

Blackraven

[n2mec]

Sometimes you've got to just keep your mouth shut and move on. All things happen for a reason. Woops, said to much already.

[Eudaimonist]

There can be other reasons why one might be uncomfortable. Some people may fear that they won't be accepted by others if their true views become known. One's personal philosophy can also be very private, and not something intended to share with just anybody.


eudaimonia,

Mark