To worship or NOT to worship

[lenvdb64]

Over the last few weeks this concept has come up a lot in my contemplation.

I used to be a Worship leader at church for many many years. I used to take charge of the worship team in their training and development.

When I had my soul awakening a few years ago I had to unlearn so much of the conditioning, including the concept of worship.
I asked (my inner self) why do we worship? And Who?

The answer that came to me is:

Gods that demand worship are drawing/sapping/draining energy from its followers.
The Universe / All that is does not demand our worship, nor requires it.
Any religion that requires us to worship one or other deity is a false religion.

We are Divine Sparks of God, so why would God (we) worship ourselves?
Why would God worship himself?

However:

A Psalm of David gives us a very interesting clue: "The secrets of the Lord are for those who fear Him."

Here the word fear is incorrect as it really implies respect. The secrets imply the Mysteries (Mystery Traditions).
Paraphrased: If you respect the Divine you are partial to the Mystery teachings.

I stopped pouring energy into deities/Gods out there as required by religious belief systems.
I now use my energy to develop my Soul skills and manifesting my reality.
During meditation I connect to my Inner Source/Light and offer a prayer - showing respect, not worship, as worship is not required.

[kkfern]

joy joy joy doing the dance of joy. so glad you have grown.

kk

[Molearner]

[QUOTE=lenvdb64]
The answer that came to me is:

Gods that demand worship are drawing/sapping/draining energy from its followers.
The Universe / All that is does not demand our worship, nor requires it.
Any religion that requires us to worship one or other deity is a false religion.

We are Divine Sparks of God, so why would God (we) worship ourselves?
Why would God worship himself?


lenvdb64,

Contemplation can bring different answers. I see energy much differently. It is not static and limited in supply......the actual sapping or draining of energy is actually a result of not using energy as opposed to using it. Think of a car battery........unused it will drain itself.....but if it used the energy it creates will create the energy to replenish itself. The human body is the same way. People that are tired and lethargic find that by exercising they actually develop new energy. In short, I am suggesting that we give to God so that we may receive from God. If we never empty the cup it can never be refilled. As a matter of fact, the valuable asset of any container is its quality of emptiness. A full cup serves no purpose. I guess there are different ways of looking at things.

[Molearner]

Some additional thoughts to contemplate:

There is the possibility that our original source of energy was our discovery of God. There is a danger that this source can change from God to our ego. Our self image becomes important to us and we enjoy the admiration and praise of others. We continue to seek this self inflation not realizing that our source of energy has shifted from God to being sourced in our egos.

Eventually we can perceive the falseness in ourselves and become disillusioned. It is good that we recognize this falseness. But unfortunately we attribute this to disillusionment with God not understanding that actually that the ego is the cause of these new perceptions and feelings.

Personally I think this happens to many people......their disenchantment is actually a growth but they attribute it to the wrong source. Not sure if this will make sense......perhaps it might resonate with others.

[Miss Hepburn]

I have never known anyone, guru, yogi, teacher
or Divine Being (Holy Spirit, my Father) that demanded worship.

When you are (I am) visited by the Divine...personally...
you are (I am, sorry) in such a state of breathless awe that worship or reverence...just kinda happens!!
Like ya can't help it. :smile:

[BlueSky]

I have never known anyone, guru, yogi, teacher
or Divine Being (Holy Spirit, my Father) that demanded worship.

When you are (I am) visited by the Divine...personally...
you are (I am, sorry) in such a state of breathless awe that worship or reverence...just kinda happens!!
Like ya can't help it. :smile:
Yes regardless how one views divinity, this reverence happens. I would add that it adds to our well being as well because the body views this in the same way it would eating a healthy meal. Letting those emotions of worship flow, if they are there, is a beautiful thing.
I just did this yesterday. I ask a question, I got an answer and I was so blessed by it that just had to now my head in thanks. I am still in a state of blessed gratitude.

[Everly]

What kind of puny "god" needs to be worshipped? It's such a sad and silly construct, designed to keep people quiet and subservient.

[Mr Interesting]

I suppose there's rapture and the love and beauty in us has found an outlet and our ears tear and it wells up and if people watched and didn't quite understand they might call that worship.

I said rapture as that's what came to me as an ideal within Christianity but maybe it's too far ahead, too outside regular grasp, but that doesn't mean people can't work at it and it won't bring them to grace... maybe that's what worship is, a state of grace, being just full of love for everything.

[Rawnrr]

The concept of worship has likely changed greatly in meaning and act over the generations.
Essentially worship is nothing more than a focused meditation. Meditating on one aspect of the divine or another.

[ReSurrection]

I am a former phycic ( I know I spelled it wrong sorry ) and am Christian now after almost slipping to the dark side and becoming part of a satanic cult ( Yes, my life story is odd, hope I didnt scare anyone ). What actually steered me away from that path was the fact that I had a near death experience so to speak and God showed me where I would go if I continue along that path.

The reason why it is said to fear your Lord God is yes, to have respect as well. Also the reason why you should fear Him is because '' fear not of those who can kill the body but fear the one who can kill both body and soul''.

Once you pass away you either go to Heaven or Hell and if you go to Hell ( and personally I have seen it twice, Christ it is awfull ) you will be in a place of eternal darkness, torment, the stench is horrible, whats worse you wont be able to speak to anyone there even though there are millions of souls there wont be any talking so you will be completelly alone in your suffering, you will be very thirsty without a drop of water to drink,and those creatures will never stop tormenting you. That is why it is said that if you choose Christ you choose life and that is why in the Bibble it says ''the penalty of sin is death''. Christ didnt mean it as you sin in your lifetime and something strikes you from above, he meant after you pass away, you will die ( eternal torment,forever ). That is why he said death. The rewards for the good deeds in your life you get after you pass away and the punishment for the bad deeds in your life you get after you pass away, that is why you see sometimes bad people ''getting away'' with things during their life and good people seemingly not getting rewards,you get everything ater you pass away.

Now, back when I had the near death experience the first thing I felt when God spoke to me was a huuuuuuuge feeling of servitude and a great deal of fear. I felt such fear like I never felt in my life,I couldnt even lift my head to look up at Him I was so ashamed.

and yes you do have to try really hard to get into Heaven. Technically none of us are deserving of it, and yes we are saved by Gods grace, but Christ said to '' make every effort and strain your last nerve '' to get into Heaven, so you really have to try really hard yourself.

For those who say that you dont have to try and that people can just be lazy and not do anything and will be saved just like so, that is false. I can tell you that, not only did I want to be in a satanic cult but I nearly became a Priestess in said cult, and I can tell you that the priests and priestesses working for Satan work their asses off. They try so hard, there are some spells which can get them killed, most of them go insane or die very young or age prematurelly because being exposed to such evil ruins them, yet they are prepared to ( and do ) everything in their might for the devil, no matter what it takes. And then, I look at fellow Christians ,we are lazy, we do nothing for Jesus and God.So how come, evil people do everything for their evil god, yet good people self rghteously think they dont need to do anything for theirs?

I think the reason for this is that as Christians we are spoiled. A lot of priests wrongly just preach about how God is loving and create this image of everything will be fine, everythings is la da di da,when God is a strict and just God and there is now way in the world you can live a negative lifestyle and end up in Heaven, there is no way for that ever happening. God said it very clearly in the Bibble, but I think we are Christians are just too afraid to accept that possibility so we barry our heads in the sand and pretend everything will be alright once we die but that is the thing, once you pass away it is too late. You can beg Christ all you want, cry for mercy it will be too late,all that matters is what you did on Earth, the second you pass away there is nothing you can do.

I think as people we are still living in the sin of Eve ( Eve thought that she could do whatever she wanted and bite the apple and that God would forgive her everything but clearly she was wrong as we were cast out of Eden ) so I think sadly that rebellion continues in Christians, sadly for some reason we just dont want to listen, we just constantly rebel :( Heaven is a beatiful place, where you will live forever, looking your best physical self, forever ( that is a strong word ) and God sacrificed his only Son so we can be there, and all he asks and Jesus as well is that we listen to what they say to us and to follow the guidelines to getting there and to be respectfull of them and obey them,and instead we shun it aside and act like spoiled teenagers it breaks my heart.

If i could only describe the level of obedience satanic priests and followers have towards the devil, when the devil says jump they say how high, if Christians had only half the dedication and dilligence these people have the world would be a better place.

[CrystalSong]

Wow that was a scary read - on so many levels!
From one far side swing of the pendulum to the other.
It is absolutely awe inspiring to me how varied and different human experience can be for all coming from the same Wellspring.
That idea alone makes me feel reverent!

And I walk in gratitude that clarity and calmness abides with me these days.
Worship?
Loving is worship, spreading Light is worship, extending compassion is worship.... Living is worship :)
Treating all consciousness, All That Is as a vessel for the Creators presence is worship.
If there is more outside of ecstatic direct infilling of the Divine, then I do not know it, if more is needed I will be told, that much seems a given these days! lol

[Molearner]

[QUOTE=CrystalSong]Wow that was a scary read - on so many levels!
From one far side swing of the pendulum to the other.
It is absolutely awe inspiring to me how varied and different human experience can be for all coming from the same Wellspring.
That idea alone makes me feel reverent!

CrystalSong,

I assume that you are referring to the posting by ReSurrection. I agree completely. So much of what is posted here is more in the category of Spiritual-Lite or Diet-Spiritual.......this must certainly was not that! It takes courage to share on that level and we honor it because it comes from a genuinely personal and experiential place. Sometimes the truth comes from a deeper place than kind platitudes and meaningless words of understanding. When the judge pronounces your sentence he is not thinking about your feelings....:)

[Molearner]

Matthew 10:34......"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"

[lemex]

Christian now after almost slipping to the dark side and becoming part of a satanic cult. Yes, my life story is odd. What actually steered me away from that path was the fact that I had a near death experience so to speak and God showed me where I would go if I continue along that path.



Yes, "that" path was wrong. That's what you were shown. It's good it was seen. Don't apply it to all paths, was this explained during the experience. Is it ever explained to the person and we forget to mention it. Just wondering.

[Mr Interesting]

It was like fun... 'cause the idea of worship is such a neato thing, but then BOOM, it's a Christian thing... the trumpets blare! Heaven rumbles forth dire portent's... oh my God, how much longer will all this go on?

Resurrection, it's nice that you took your kick in the but and made it useful but maybe it's because the whispers didn't work, then the nudges didn't work, then the signs didn't work... and still more loving energy was trying to make you notice then BOOM, way off swinging at the other end.

And Diet spirit and lite spirit... that's ironic. Die (t), light...

Over it, you guys argue with the big swords of your personal ideals out in the real world of saving and serving souls... I'm going to go inside and reflect for a bit.

[CrystalSong]

*Accidental double post*

[Molearner]

It was like fun... 'cause the idea of worship is such a neato thing, but then BOOM, it's a Christian thing... the trumpets blare! Heaven rumbles forth dire portent's... oh my God, how much longer will all this go on?

Resurrection, it's nice that you took your kick in the but and made it useful but maybe it's because the whispers didn't work, then the nudges didn't work, then the signs didn't work... and still more loving energy was trying to make you notice then BOOM, way off swinging at the other end.

And Diet spirit and lite spirit... that's ironic. Die (t), light...

Over it, you guys argue with the big swords of your personal ideals out in the real world of saving and serving souls... I'm going to go inside and reflect for a bit.

Mr Interesting,

We all worship something whether it is God or money, fame, status, power, ourselves, etc. If we are honest we can only share from personal experiences. Thankfully this is an open forum and all should be welcome to share how and/or what they worship. No one should be surprised or upset or made nervous when hearing that some people worship God.

[Mr Interesting]

I know, it was a bit abrupt of me, my apologies resurrection, it was uncouth of me to try and blame my own troubles on you.

I just wanna make it easy on God really... that the quieter and more open we can become within ourselves, the easier it is for the communication to go on and be a bigger part of our lives... but that's simply my belief and I have to respect that if I'm given the opportunity to speak mine then it is an unreserved right for all others to speak theirs, and for me to listen as deeply as I feel able to.

Peace,
Sean.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

I worship only The Chihuahua Overlords :cool:

[Tanemon]

This thread is bringing something to mind for me. I remember reading, in something by Alan Watts, a discussion of this realization by individuals: that they are essentially functions of the Divine.

Watts pointed out that some individuals will decide that this means they can do whatever they like in life - and that for some people this will mean acting in anti-social or cruel ways, just because it suits their personal whims. Afterall, if there are no higher beings that this "self-realized" human, why should he or she consider anything as more important that his/her whims? Watts regarded it as a confusion of the existential reality with the moral sphere.

You could ask: why would the individual want to hurt anyone... surely s/he is going to want to avoid hurting other persons (who also are divine at their core)? Well, actually some people don't care much about whether they hurt other people.

This is why ancient traditions (e.g., Vedanta, Buddhism, Eckhartian Christian mysticism) which were supportive of this spiritual realization also acknowledged the need for a person to be guided by ethical or moral principles. Otherwise the spiritual realization could sometimes give rise to human 'monsters' (psychopaths).

If the person's realization remains at a very high level, then love will guide. But for many people, the inner realization isn't maintained at the high level.

[lemex]

This thread is bringing something to mind for me. I remember reading, in something by Alan Watts, a discussion of this realization by individuals: that they are essentially functions of the Divine.

Watts pointed out that some individuals will decide that this means they can do whatever they like in life - and that for some people this will mean acting in anti-social or cruel ways, just because it suits their personal whims. Afterall, if there are no higher beings that this "self-realized" human, why should he or she consider anything as more important that his/her whims? Watts regarded it as a confusion of the existential reality with the moral sphere.

You could ask: why would the individual want to hurt anyone... surely s/he is going to want to avoid hurting other persons (who also are divine at their core)? Well, actually some people don't care much about whether they hurt other people.

This is why ancient traditions (e.g., Vedanta, Buddhism, Eckhartian Christian mysticism) which were supportive of this spiritual realization also acknowledged the need for a person to be guided by ethical or moral principles. Otherwise the spiritual realization could sometimes give rise to human 'monsters' (psychopaths).

If the person's realization remains at a very high level, then love will guide. But for many people, the inner realization isn't maintained at the high level.

You are the first to recognize the idea. I hope this isn't off tangent, let me know if it is. But is more of what I would do scenario to. What is the difference between what was seen and vision. Some have had them, some talk about them and even seek them. So the first question is, is that a vision.

A vision put into a way the mind can understand. If it is communication then this is actually a form of love. The mind may even be able to receive and you don't know if it's you or not. Again things we talk about here. Personally I have my own belief but I would love to test them. Also I like to hear form from people who have had vision and is this the same. You have had the same experience.

If I ever experience at this level and it is communication, I think I'm going to try to ask questions "I" and others wanted to know on top of my vision. Can we have lucid visions. What interests me about the vision is our attitude to them. How do we participate in them, being passive or active. I feel they are connected. Personally, I appreciate the detailed sharing of what others see. So a quick question about vision. Would you ask the question. When one is elevated to spiritual levels do you participate and the opportunity available. I guess I'm just way inquisitive. What I do know though is I have had experience you will in all probability never have, that if you did you would see and believe in reality others don't but we talk about here.

[athribiristan]

Over the last few weeks this concept has come up a lot in my contemplation.

I used to be a Worship leader at church for many many years. I used to take charge of the worship team in their training and development.

When I had my soul awakening a few years ago I had to unlearn so much of the conditioning, including the concept of worship.
I asked (my inner self) why do we worship? And Who?

The answer that came to me is:

Gods that demand worship are drawing/sapping/draining energy from its followers.
The Universe / All that is does not demand our worship, nor requires it.
Any religion that requires us to worship one or other deity is a false religion.

This also has implications for Free Will. Is it really Free Will if there are requirements?

We are Divine Sparks of God, so why would God (we) worship ourselves?
Why would God worship himself?

However:

A Psalm of David gives us a very interesting clue: "The secrets of the Lord are for those who fear Him."

Here the word fear is incorrect as it really implies respect. The secrets imply the Mysteries (Mystery Traditions).
Paraphrased: If you respect the Divine you are partial to the Mystery teachings.

I stopped pouring energy into deities/Gods out there as required by religious belief systems.
I now use my energy to develop my Soul skills and manifesting my reality.
During meditation I connect to my Inner Source/Light and offer a prayer - showing respect, not worship, as worship is not required.

I love it.

[Molearner]

[QUOTE=TanemonThis is why ancient traditions (e.g., Vedanta, Buddhism, Eckhartian Christian mysticism) which were supportive of this spiritual realization also acknowledged the need for a person to be guided by ethical or moral principles. Otherwise the spiritual realization could sometimes give rise to human 'monsters' (psychopaths).

Tanemon,

As you probably know this condition is defined by the dictionary as "megalomania". The vision leading to this condition can be completely genuine but the ego seizes this grace that has been given and uses it for its own purposes(the survival of the ego). In short, the vision given as grace can easily be turned into a life-sucking temptation.

[n2mec]

Out of respect, worship can grow. Why either? Your none the less or others around you.