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Valus
19-12-2010, 05:57 AM
Jesus embraced the Holy Spirit and became Jesus Christ. In the same way, -- or, rather, in his own way, -- Siddhartha embraced it, and became Siddhartha Christ; the Buddha. Christ is The Higher Self, and when you grow into your higher self, no matter what your first name may be, your last name (and the last name by which you will ever be known) will always be Christ; the Anointed.

Jesus may be your teacher, but Christ is within you. Regardless of who your teacher may be, or what spiritual tradition you may follow, the peak at which all souls arrive, and from which they regard the whole of Creation, is the same. Though our teachers may be men, and our paths may be man-made, the wisdom is from God, and it is God within us who comprehends it.

Honza
19-12-2010, 01:17 PM
That is a good post. Thankyou.

pre-dawn
19-12-2010, 03:50 PM
Let's not be so arrogant as to claim the Christ is the absolute highest one could aspire to.

Valus
19-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Honza,

Thank you.


pre-dawn,

You misunderstood.

pre-dawn
20-12-2010, 04:20 AM
pre-dawn,

You misunderstood. OK, and I still disagree.
Why is our 'last name' Christ and not Bodhisattva, Zeus, Allah, Thetan or just plain Source?
In an interfaith forum I would expect that one would look for a term which is universally acceptable and does not imply that one particular faith is favored.

Also, imo, to aim only grow into the Higher Self looks to me like a very limited goal.

Valus
20-12-2010, 06:58 AM
OK, and I still disagree.
Why is our 'last name' Christ and not Bodhisattva, Zeus, Allah, Thetan or just plain Source?
In an interfaith forum I would expect that one would look for a term which is universally acceptable and does not imply that one particular faith is favored.

Also, imo, to aim only grow into the Higher Self looks to me like a very limited goal.
Okay, I see what you're saying.

But this is how I think of it:

If I were to post this in the Christianity forum, someone would object that it belongs in the Interfaith forum. You can't make everybody happy. For me, everyone's last name would be "Christ", because I am rooted in the Christian tradition -- it is my first language, so to speak. And it's the spiritual language of the majority of my countrymen, who I would like to help learn to speak and interpret it better. I do this by tweaking the traditional interpretations of Christian terms. I give those terms a more universal application. If that offends you just as much as it would offend a fundamentalist Christian, well, I'm afraid it can't be helped.

Although I endeavor to meet people of all faiths on a neutral ground, I do not desire to renounce the land of my origins. And even if I did, I'd still see and interpret things from my own vantage point. If you ask a Spaniard what that round thing is perched on top of his neck, which houses his eyes, ears, mouth and nose, he will tell you it is his cabeza. If you ask him what an American has on top of his neck, he will still say cabeza. Does it offend you, that a Spaniard thinks everyone, regardless of the language they speak, has a cabeza? Would you insist that he use another word? Would you suggest that he use the French word tête, when referring to a Frenchman's head? Or maybe the German word kopf, when referring to a German man's head? Or perhaps some other, more "universal" word? What word would that be, I wonder?

If using the term "Christ" is a show of favoritism, why would using any of the other terms you suggest be any less so? Can you give me an example of a term which would be "universally acceptable"?

My sense was that an "Interfaith" forum would be a suitable place to try to illuminate the universals between various faiths. If I were to speak only of "Source", or whatever seems like a sufficiently neutral term, then the thread would not address the theme of the forum, as I see it. I may as well post in "General Spirituality" or something like that.

As for the Higher Self being a limited goal...

I suppose when any of us gets that far,
then we can talk about going further.

But maybe it's enough to say "you can't please everyone", and leave it at that. If you disagree with my method, or my style, then perhaps this is just not for you. If your path, or destiny, lies in another direction entirely, then nothing I say, no matter how reasonable, will carry weight for you. And that is precisely as it should be. Does it mean that I'm being "arrogant"? Not at all. It just means you need to find what resonates for you. "My grind ain't your grind, dawg." (~Mos Def) Then again, maybe you're just a fault finder, who refuses to see the good?

I hope that clarifies my position somewhat.

If not, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

God Bless,
Namaste,
Whatever,
:angel12:

mahakali
20-12-2010, 07:43 AM
whats in a word, its the meaning behind it that counts. I agree

Valus
20-12-2010, 08:24 AM
:hug3:

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament;
not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
~ 2 Corinthians 3:6

Perry J
20-12-2010, 06:31 PM
Very true.
Christ is not a person but a Consciousness, this is very important, because every religion in their mystic teachings (even Islam: read Rumi's work!) addresses a consciousness that can only be found within. The Christ Consciousness and Tao, and Nirvana, is exactly the same thing.

Jesus is not the only son of God. We are all sons of God (or daughters).
What IS the only son of God is the Christ Consciousness. This consciousness is universal an can be reached by everyone regardless of religion.

Jesus was a common person (born by a woman), who attained the Christ Consciousness and showed others how to do the same. The Catholic Church, however, has twisted the teachings and put Jesus on a pedestal, it's considered blasphemy to follow his example, and there is nothing to find within, but we instead have to follow dogmas and priests. This is the greatest scandal of all time. And it has brainwashed us all so deeply.

Power elites (The church is of course one of them) who want to control people always try to raise people against each other and maintain conflict.

Valus
20-12-2010, 08:26 PM
Very well said, Perry.

If anyone thinks a Buddhist can't be a Christian,
they haven't understood the teaching of Christ.

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another." ~ John 13:35

Amen to THAT! :D

Enya
20-12-2010, 10:04 PM
Totally agree. xxx

pre-dawn
21-12-2010, 02:57 AM
whats in a word, its the meaning behind it that counts. I agree
Yes and no. Words not only have meaning but also associations.

IMO, interfaith would do much better if it would develop its own language. Taking words one is used to and impute a different meaning, even if this meaning is an accepted one in some circles, just makes it difficult for all the others.

Universal alternatives for Christ consciousness are a challenge as many terms are already used in other faiths. Still one can search for a few which have relatively little baggage. Some possibilities would be:
clear, although Scientology uses it
untainted, too Buddhist?
unblemished
pristine
pure
spotless
perfect
flawless
translucent
cloudless
lucid
empty

mahakali
21-12-2010, 06:40 AM
sometimes associations help us to better fathom a meaning but keep an open mind that things are never 1 way, to me Christ consciousness does not make me think of the religious dogmas behind Christianity.

Amilius777
21-12-2010, 09:04 PM
Perry J-

Jesus was a common person (born by a woman), who attained the Christ Consciousness and showed others how to do the same. The Catholic Church, however, has twisted the teachings and put Jesus on a pedestal, it's considered blasphemy to follow his example, and there is nothing to find within, but we instead have to follow dogmas and priests. This is the greatest scandal of all time. And it has brainwashed us all so deeply.

-------------

I agree and disagree. Jesus was a human being, a soul created by God so are well all. We are all sons/daughters of God. But the pedestal that the Catholic Church is obsessed with needs more research then just plain- "The catholic church has made the greatest evils, blah blah" If anything the Catholic Church out of all the Christian denominations believe in inner-communion with a "formless" Christ as told by St. Theresa of Avila. They believe in "divine" grace which is similar to Buddhism, that others either dis incarnate (Saints) or incarnate or God Himself can bestow grace on an individual to help in their "salvation" or what others call "awakening". Roman Catholicism also believes that The Trinity is meant to indwell within the human person which is very similar to the new age belief of the Christ mind, body, and spirit dwelling within us to make us Christ.

And the Roman Catholic Belief is- "The Son of God became Man so that Man would become God".- St. Thomas Aquinas.

Now. I am not here to defend Catholicism. I have had my problems with it. But the core of their teachings are not in dire need of change. If anything Roman Catholicism needs to borrow is reincarnation and the idea of eternal Hell needs to be dumped away.

The reason why Christianity has a hold on Jesus as special. Is because unlike past prophets such as Moses, Buddha, and such he didn't have to become anything. He was already Christ when he came into his mother's womb. He already had the Christ consciousness. He was the first time since the "archetypal" Adam/Eve, that Christ was manifested as a human. Completely. Buddha lived most of his life looking for the Higher Self, Moses drifted into materialization until he became self-realized in the desert, and many other prophets follow the same pattern.

Jesus is the only one who knew the higher self all long. In Edgar Cayce's readings he says that Jesus was the first soul to be the Christ, the first to die and literally resurrect. He started "The Way". Does not mean others will not do the same, but Cayce explained the Akashic Records that Jesus was special because he was the first soul to be bestowed with the "Christ" title and completely one with God in the flesh.

That is why he is special. Not because he is the only son of God. We all are. But because he is the Elder Brother of the Human Race.

Perry J
21-12-2010, 09:34 PM
Amilius: thank you.

I agree with you. There are many people within the Catholic Church who are honest and have a heart-felt connection to Christ. What I'm addressing is the highest leadership of it (The Roman Catholic Church), and the Jesuits. The people under it are not the top.
Have you seen this video (Walter Veith: Secret Societies)?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5505313512583412097#

It would be interesting to hear what you think about it, but I do not expect anything.

pre-dawn
22-12-2010, 03:42 AM
Jesus was a common person (born by a woman), who attained the Christ Consciousness and showed others how to do the same. The Catholic Church, however, has twisted the teachings and put Jesus on a pedestal, it's considered blasphemy to follow his example, and there is nothing to find within, but we instead have to follow dogmas and priests. This is the greatest scandal of all time. And it has brainwashed us all so deeply.
This sound very New Age to me.

Is the aim of interfaith to have faiths infiltrated with New Age, pantheistic or panentheistic, ideas?
Or is it a talk shop where we behave in a civilzed manner, agree to disagree about things we have agreed to disagree before?
Or is it coming together taking part in ceremonies and rituals of other faiths knowing that it makes us feel good and tolerant while understanding little about the meaning of the activity?

Maybe it could be about truly understanding another, but the quoted post already has pointers to the contrary.

Valus
22-12-2010, 06:52 AM
Everyone teaches in their own way.

Some erode rigid systems from the outside.

I prefer to infiltrate the dominant mythology
and subversively reinterpret the "old tablets".

I believe this is what Jesus himself did.

And I know this method has merit,
as I've seen peoples eyes, and hearts, light up.

Sometimes we need to confront the archetypes
at the root of our collective unconscious,
and learn to work with them.

According to Jung, these are psychic organs,
and we damage them, and ourselves, when we reject them.

I believe Jung was right.

Amilius777
22-12-2010, 06:59 AM
Well. There are aspects of pantheism in the ancient Jewish tradition.

Around the time of Abraham to Moses their society of believing in God was for more Buddhistic/Hindu. If someone saved their butt or brought salvation to their cities or helped them out in some way they would address the individual as "anointed one" or The Lord. This can go to King Cyrus (spell check?) who saved them during Babylonian times. King David was called "anointed one". God told Moses- "Be as God to Aaron, and Aaron will be prophet to you." So this sense of "Christhood" or God dwelling in all this as this Omnipresent Energy was very present during early Judaic times. Their "One God" was also a "ONENESS". A oneness of all things. One God, One Nation, One Religion. All things were meant to be one- "Know Israel, the Lord thy God is ONE". NOT, that "Know Israel, there is only one God!" But that the Lord God is ONE. Nothing should be separate from the One Reality, including us!

What separates us from God? We separate ourselves in guilt and unworthiness. The feeling of unworthiness "Belial" makes us separate. That is the only devil we have to deal with in life. Self-created fear, hate, temptation, etc. And others who have willfully accepted the dredging consciousness of "Belial" which is separation, those who basically worship self or fall to it's influence. But even those who we consider "evil" or demonic, God works through because God is never separate from us in spirit. We are all spirits with a body, mind, and soul. Just as God is Spirit with Father, Son, Holy Ghost. God works through the evil in order to rejuvenate our faith in Him and to redeem them from their hate.

The "New Age" is a scam. There is nothing new about reincarnation or karma or levels of consciousness. For 100,000s of years human beings have believed this and will continue to believe it. They are in the Bible, they are in the Bhagvad Gita, the words of Buddha, Plato, Socrates, European philosophers, EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!! But anyone from Sylvia Browne to Eckart Tolle can write thousands of books of their "view". Doesn't mean anything. They are not special. They just make money off of stuff that is already there. Open the Bible with a "world view" and you will see the Literal, Historical, and Metaphysical Meaning. There are 3, just as God is 3, just as Man operates in a 3 dimensional world. But they are all One.

But yes, many "christs" came before Jesus the Christ. Lower case "c", they were filled with that divinity. Guatma Buddha, Moses, King David, Abraham, were all christs before the Christ Jesus. And after we have Babaji, Sai Baba of Shirdi, St. Theresa, St. Francis, St. Anthony, Therese Nuemann, and such who belong to different religions but the one eternal truth that God is ONE and to self-realize your soul divinity.

Now I make the distinction between "christs" and Christ because Jesus' unique mission. It is not because he is better or more divine than these, but because the purpose of his incarnation was to finally bridge the complete oneness of Man and God in the Earth plane and to show Man's oneness of will with God even to the Cross where he took on the sins of his Apostles (who symbolized the twelve zodiac forces in this Solar System) the Roman Empire (the fallen humanity/prodigal son) and the Jewish Leaders (the self-righteous son).

God chose the Jewish People and the promise land where Israel lies because it bridges both East and West. The place where the seven covenants that symbolize the seven chakras were ignited and enlightened. The Jews were a soul group of millions who traveled through many lifetimes as the ones who would bring God's messiah in the world, the seventh chakra birthed, the Christ in flesh. This all was fulfilled in the Man Jesus. He was the chosen one to swing human involution from the long darkness since the archetypal Adam back upward into God.

pre-dawn
22-12-2010, 08:28 AM
Some erode rigid systems from the outside.

I prefer to infiltrate the dominant mythology
and subversively reinterpret the "old tablets".

I believe this is what Jesus himself did.
Does this mean that interfaith is not about a deeper understanding of your own and other people's faith but about changing the one one has the major gripe with?

Valus
22-12-2010, 04:30 PM
"I, for one, do not wish to make the mistake
of blaming Christianity for what men have done to it."
~ C.G. Jung

For me, it's about restoring the original meanings, as well as discovering new meanings. Keeping it alive. Christianity is a system of symbols, including wise sayings and parables, which is far too valuable not to salvage. It's not the one I have the biggest gripe with, but it is the one I love most and most hate to see corrupted. Augustine wrote: "The church is a wh*re, and she's my mother." I think that sums it up pretty nicely.

The Christian religion, the figure of Christ, and so on, isn't going away. These archetypes, sayings, stories, and this two-thousand-year-old movement comprising one-third of the population of our planet, isn't going away. I think the mature thing to do -- for me, at least -- is try to heal it, and not say, "It's sick, so we have to just write-off two billion people, and let possibly the most potent symbol system in the Western World be perverted or atrophied."

I think it's partly because I've devoted time to appreciating the various religious traditions around the world, that I'm able to reinterpret Christianity with fresh eyes, and to see how what Huxley called "the perennial philosophy" may be more clearly understood with reference to the tradition, and vice versa; how the tradition may be understood with reference to Huxley's esoteric universals.

I don't think anyone would challenge that calling, unless they misunderstood it. I've expressed a willingness to honor the paths and methods of others, and I ask only for the same respect. Of course, I'm not going to lose sleep, if anyone fails to see the significance of what I'm doing.

Perry J
22-12-2010, 07:23 PM
This sound very New Age to me.

Is the aim of interfaith to have faiths infiltrated with New Age, pantheistic or panentheistic, ideas?
Or is it a talk shop where we behave in a civilzed manner, agree to disagree about things we have agreed to disagree before?
Or is it coming together taking part in ceremonies and rituals of other faiths knowing that it makes us feel good and tolerant while understanding little about the meaning of the activity?

Maybe it could be about truly understanding another, but the quoted post already has pointers to the contrary.

Yes, of course it's New Age. Everything that is NOT mainstream Catholic Christianity is New Age. That shows how powerful the Catholic Church is.
But dare to question it. You too will be labelled as New Age, but the Truth has that price.

The Catholic Church was started by the Roman Empire, after a failed attempt to wipe out all Christians from the surface of Earth. The first popes were Roman Emperors. The Catholic Church (their leadership) is an extension of the Roman Empire and it's all about power. We all know this, intuitively. Why is there a pope? - Because he is meant to be the portal to God. (The Emperors WERE God. Not only a portal to a real God.)
But God is within us. People who want to be Gods put themselves between you and your God, that's the perfect power mechanism and exactly what Jesus pointed out.

Chrysaetos
22-12-2010, 07:35 PM
This sound very New Age to me.
Is the aim of interfaith to have faiths infiltrated with New Age, pantheistic or panentheistic, ideas?
Maybe it could be about truly understanding another, but the quoted post already has pointers to the contrary. New religions are created as we speak.

We often like to think we have grown out of religion here, but all these New Age ideas are teaming up and soon there will be established dogma. One could say it is already there. Examples: Atlantis, Lemuria, crystal healing, enlightened/ascended masters, chakras, karma, astrology, earth=school.

All religions are taken out of their context. New Age is basically a mix of Christian mysticism, bits of paganism, and last but not least, Hinduism.
In many ways I would even consider it Hinduism, but more a modern version and a softer one.
For 100,000s of years human beings have believed this and will continue to believe it. Care to provide evidence for that?

Amilius777
22-12-2010, 11:45 PM
Okay maybe not exactly 100,000 years but for a longer period of time than most beliefs.

Besides, why do you always need historical "material" proof of such existence? Matter has no source but from Mind. Matter does not come from Matter. That is why scientist will never find where the ball started because they only look at one dimension of the universe.

The 100,000 years refers to the intuitive beliefs of Atlantis, Lemuria and such.

Perry J
23-12-2010, 07:39 AM
Okay maybe not exactly 100,000 years but for a longer period of time than most beliefs.

Besides, why do you always need historical "material" proof of such existence? Matter has no source but from Mind. Matter does not come from Matter. That is why scientist will never find where the ball started because they only look at one dimension of the universe.

The 100,000 years refers to the intuitive beliefs of Atlantis, Lemuria and such.

Yes, that's valid for scientific materialism. That part of science where it's discovered and proven that mind has influence over matter, has been suppressed for 80 years.
I have had many "prove that"- discussions with scientific materialists and learned that the problem is not the proofs but what they are ready to accept. And the basic problem behind is that materialistic science rely on a primary assumption, which is NEVER questioned. One such assumption is that there is an Objective Reality, that is isolated from ourselves.
Whenever a basic assumption is challenged, hostility is triggered.

Chrysaetos
23-12-2010, 09:03 AM
Besides, why do you always need historical "material" proof of such existence? I certainly don't always need that, but I do if you say humanity has believed in stuff for 100.000's of years.
But if those places you mentioned existed on earth there would be evidence.

Chrysaetos
23-12-2010, 09:06 AM
Yes, that's valid for scientific materialism. That part of science where it's discovered and proven that mind has influence over matter, has been suppressed for 80 years.Show me how its been suppressed?
I don't think anyone would deny that the ''mind'' influences our actions and choices, thus eventually influences ''matter'', and we all know placebos.
I have had many "prove that"- discussions with scientific materialists and learned that the problem is not the proofs but what they are ready to accept. Being sceptical about certain claims does not make one a ''scientific materialist''. ;)

Perry J
25-12-2010, 12:48 PM
Show me how its been suppressed?
I don't think anyone would deny that the ''mind'' influences our actions and choices, thus eventually influences ''matter'', and we all know placebos.Being sceptical about certain claims does not make one a ''scientific materialist''. ;)

I can show you how it's being suppressed, and part of that answer is what I said before, that about materialistic science's modus operandi: Make a primary assumption, that's then built upon. And the more built the more precious the assumption becomes. So precious indeed, that is MUST NOT BE WRONG.

Albert Einstein's discoveries pointed out a new way to go for science. By then, there was a state where physics had decided they had already discovered everything there is to know. That was Newtons physics, where matter is separated from the mind. Unfortunately, powerholders had already invested a lot in this. ( Science is sometimes not that undisturbed instrument of clearness and objectivity it's meant to be, especially when it's financiers want to create there own sphere.)

Physics - and science - has been split in two camps, much like the ages-old conflict between science and religion. It IS the same conflict.

Quantium physics has been buried under a massive propaganda from the more powerful Newtonian fringe. Look at Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Lee Smolin and many others, on the net and youtube. Se videos about Quantum mechanics, and Dawkins "Enemies of Reason". Dawkins and others do indeed point out much bogus, but what is dangerous is that they want to use it as an alibi to make an absolute statement of what reality is, and create a system.

It's a serious problem, because physics faces a new perspective where traditional proof-making does no longer work. In order for science to evolve, the consciousness level of the scientist must rise (meaning the objective reality idea must be abandoned). But to some scientific materialists there is no such thing as consciousness. Consciousness is subjective and not part of the objective reality, they say.
To the power elite, all talk about raising consciousness is scary.

Kim Michaels gives a very good overview on the problem here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS_x6WJ-z0A

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 01:21 PM
I can show you how it's being suppressed, and part of that answer is what I said before, that about materialistic science's modus operandi: Make a primary assumption, that's then built upon. And the more built the more precious the assumption becomes. So precious indeed, that is MUST NOT BE WRONG.It must be hard when spiritual beliefs can't be validated scientifically, but you just got to accept it's subjective and guess work.Quantium physics has been buried under a massive propaganda from the more powerful Newtonian fringe. Look at Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Lee Smolin and many others, on the net and youtube. Se videos about Quantum mechanics, and Dawkins "Enemies of Reason". Dawkins and others do indeed point out much bogus, but what is dangerous is that they want to use it as an alibi to make an absolute statement of what reality is, and create a system. I have seen that documentary and he doesn't make those claims.It's a serious problem, because physics faces a new perspective where traditional proof-making does no longer work. In order for science to evolve, the consciousness level of the scientist must rise (meaning the objective reality idea must be abandoned). What consciousness level? Please explain.
No striving for objectivity? Then everyone is right and all beliefs are correct. Sounds like a New Age fairytale..But to some scientific materialists there is no such thing as consciousness. Consciousness is subjective and not part of the objective reality, they say. To the power elite, all talk about raising consciousness is scary.But what is consciousness? And what is ''raising consciousness''?

Perry J
25-12-2010, 01:58 PM
Well, consciousness is what experiences objective reality, we could say. A higher state of consciousness would be a state where you realize more of the reality than you do right now. It is possible to raise the consciousness, but first you must ask yourself if you want this. It's always possible to lower the consciousness level. Why would it not be possible to heighten it? We all kind of choose the experience we want. See that video I link to.

supernova
25-12-2010, 02:11 PM
Well, consciousness is what experiences objective reality, we could say. A higher state of consciousness would be a state where you realize more of the reality than you do right now. It is possible to raise the consciousness, but first you must ask yourself if you want this. It's always possible to lower the consciousness level. Why would it not be possible to heighten it? We all kind of choose the experience we want. See that video I link to.

I too believe we can enhance our consciousness level to any heights. With our limited consciousness we know a little about the universe we are in and with a higher amount of it we will come to know some deeper and subtler realities about the universe we are in. The stars, the constellations and the galaxies that hold them and something bigger than the galaxies and all else will be within our consciousness.

mahakali
25-12-2010, 06:57 PM
i am not Hindu or Buddhist or pagan or new-ager or whatever, and i understand about dogmas, its when people who never had the revelations of the prophets try to understand them by making it make sense according to a ego stroking point of view.

wheres the proof you say? its in my mind. its every time i get painful cramps and my friend heals them or every time i see and communicate with spirits or when i see the future or attract something to me that is granted within seconds. its the places i go when im not in my body and me finding answers through these philosophy's and knowing because the spirits are telling me and guiding me through this time of confusion. the thoughts are whats real the material is only an illusion. the beautiful collars are vibrations and the matter is made of atoms that are made of energy that vibrates, its all so clear to me. i know that without so many of these experiences that ive had i would not believe at all. no way. but at this point i either have to believe or id be insane. denying what is right in front of you is crazy so to be sane i believe. i hope that everyone can have these amazing revelations, but you have to open up first, see the possibility and you will see proof, it will be granted to you i promise.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 07:57 PM
Well, consciousness is what experiences objective reality, we could say. But that could apply to the senses as well. So what is ''consciousness''?We all kind of choose the experience we want.Are you sure? Do we want to be born with disease? Do we want to be tortured, raped, or murdered?i am not Hindu or Buddhist or pagan or new-ager or whatever, and i understand about dogmas, its when people who never had the revelations of the prophets try to understand them by making it make sense according to a ego stroking point of view. You, me or someone else might not be a Hindu, Buddhist, or Christian, but our views can be very similar (sometimes identical) to those who are a Hindu, Buddhist or Christian. We are formed by the things we get in contact with (religions, culture, ideologies etc.) The label is just that, a label. What's behind the label is what matters.

How would you know your experiences are the same as the revelations of the prophets? We cannot know such a thing, all we are doing is interpreting their experiences through our own experiences, culture, and beliefs.

Who are these people?
And what is ego?

Sira
25-12-2010, 08:23 PM
Chrysaetos wrote: "Are you sure? Do we want to be born with disease? Do we want to be tortured, raped, or murdered?"

From what I know, yes. We are fragmented eternal beings, on our way back to oneness. Our closest higher aspects are higher self and soul, experiencing in worlds, as us humans on Earth.
Now, you may choose to agree or disagree. I am only offering my view based on my path.
Earth is not the densest place that we have experienced, there are denser ones. We are now on our journey back to where we came from. Many people call this process ascension.
When we ascend, we free ourselves from all the pain, fear, or whatever we left behind that is magnetically attached to polarity, density. To free ourselves, we need to demagnetize these experiences/emotions. One of the most powerful tools is love, another is forgiveness. On our way back we basically face everything we left behind, on the so-called ascension spiral.
Not everyone is on the ascension path. Some are only now starting to experience density worlds to continue their journey somewhere else after Earth experience.
Why do we choose for example violent experiences? Because we can. Because at a higher level we are not emotionally attached, it is part of the human experience. It teaches us to choose wisely. It teaches us values. It teaches us to live according to our values.
Outside polarity it is all experience, not good not bad. This experience amounts to knowledge that crystallizes into wisdom. When we become conscious creators after our 3D human experience, what could be more valuable than wisdom of how to create the best world for human-based beings to experience?
:icon_flower:

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:08 PM
But that could apply to the senses as well. So what is ''consciousness''? consciousness is the part of you who interprets what the senses are sensing, its the one WHO's sensing not the fact of sensing.
Are you sure? Do we want to be born with disease? Do we want to be tortured, raped, or murdered?actually the only way to know something is to experience, and we came to learn or know what the material reality is all about so we must experience (your mom can tell you how it is but you do not know until you experience for yourself) everything through our incarnations. experience is the best teacher. the knowledge evolves your spirit. in the spirit realm there is no such thing as attachment to one life so sacrificing it to learn something is no big deal. even pain is interpreted as something different, there is no evil or good pleasure or pain there is only the duality, the opposite ends of the spectrum that is experiencing a separate material reality.

You, me or someone else might not be a Hindu, Buddhist, or Christian, but our views can be very similar (sometimes identical) to those who are a Hindu, Buddhist or Christian. We are formed by the things we get in contact with (religions, culture, ideologies etc.) The label is just that, a label. What's behind the label is what matters.

How would you know your experiences are the same as the revelations of the prophets? We cannot know such a thing, all we are doing is interpreting their experiences through our own experiences, culture, and beliefs.
by reading about them and resonating with the statements made going"wow i understand exactly what he meant" wile others will guess and downplay the meaning to what they think it must have meant.
Who are these people? you mean people like Jesus and Buddha and the millions more like them? they had great revelations and inspired many, when the teachings became popular many would read them and hearing from the others that those teachings were the way to salvation they would try there hardest to understand them but would just make an interpretation with there ego.

And what is ego? well this answer will not cover the full implications of the ego because there are many layers of depth to the incredible revelation behind it.

ego is the fact that we are separate from the universe, its what allows us to create in this objective way. the soul is encasing the spirit. it is the body. it is the sense of self. it is what makes us human. everyone has to have one to exist in the 3rd dimensional reality or whatever you want to call it. now having an ego bound or ego stroking point of view (seeing reality without oneness, totally separate) is the part that makes men think there better than another, and couldn't/wouldn't totally accept the teachings of equality of men and woman for example, misinterpreting or more like recreating scriptures to reflect that. its in Buddhism and Christianity probably all big religions.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:15 PM
From what I know, yes. We are fragmented eternal beings, on our way back to oneness. Our closest higher aspects are higher self and soul, experiencing in worlds, as us humans on Earth.Going back implies we were there before, which means a perfect divine place allowed imperfection, temporariness and suffering to happen. Contradiction in terminis. Earth is not the densest place that we have experienced, there are denser ones. Where are the denser places? What do they look like? What lives there?
Not everyone is on the ascension path. Some are only now starting to experience density worlds to continue their journey somewhere else after Earth experience.
If others are not on the ''ascension path'', I wonder what they are doing here.
Who's on the ''ascension path'' and who is not? What are the characteristics of one who is, and one who is not?

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:18 PM
Chrysaetos wrote: "Are you sure? Do we want to be born with disease? Do we want to be tortured, raped, or murdered?"

From what I know, yes. We are fragmented eternal beings, on our way back to oneness. Our closest higher aspects are higher self and soul, experiencing in worlds, as us humans on Earth.
Now, you may choose to agree or disagree. I am only offering my view based on my path.
Earth is not the densest place that we have experienced, there are denser ones. We are now on our journey back to where we came from. Many people call this process ascension.
When we ascend, we free ourselves from all the pain, fear, or whatever we left behind that is magnetically attached to polarity, density. To free ourselves, we need to demagnetize these experiences/emotions. One of the most powerful tools is love, another is forgiveness. On our way back we basically face everything we left behind, on the so-called ascension spiral.
Not everyone is on the ascension path. Some are only now starting to experience density worlds to continue their journey somewhere else after Earth experience.
Why do we choose for example violent experiences? Because we can. Because at a higher level we are not emotionally attached, it is part of the human experience. It teaches us to choose wisely. It teaches us values. It teaches us to live according to our values.
Outside polarity it is all experience, not good not bad. This experience amounts to knowledge that crystallizes into wisdom. When we become conscious creators after our 3D human experience, what could be more valuable than wisdom of how to create the best world for human-based beings to experience?
:icon_flower:ah Sira, newbie, your words are like butter!

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:24 PM
consciousness is the part of you who interprets what the senses are sensing, its the one WHO's sensing not the fact of sensing.So mind = consciousness?actually the only way to know something is to experience, and we came to learn or know what the material reality is all about so we must experience (your mom can tell you how it is but you do not know until you experience for yourself) everything through our incarnations. experience is the best teacher.the knowledge evolves your spirit. Everything? Do you have to be a murderer, torturer, rapist as well, and do you have to be all the persons and creatures that exist and have existed? All in the name of ''spirit evolution'', but yet this ''spirit'' has no need for that according to spiritual evolutionists...ego is the fact that we are separate from the universe, its what allows us to create in this objective way. the soul is encasing the spirit. it is the body. it is the sense of self. it is what makes us human. We cannot be separate from the universe, existing means we are a part of it. everyone has to have one to exist in the 3rd dimensional reality or whatever you want to call it. Can you have one outside the ''3th dimensional reality''?

''Having one'' also sounds like separation.
''Who'' is it that has a soul?

Sira
25-12-2010, 09:25 PM
Chrysaetos wrote: "Going back implies we were there before, which means a perfect divine place allowed imperfection, temporariness and suffering to happen. Contradiction in terminis."
Yes, perfection is not the same as experiencing polarity. We are all perfect, we have always been, we will always be. What we are talking about here is experience in the density of polarity. It is at this 3D level that we label things because we live in an illusion. When we realize who we are, when we let go of our ego-driven life and embrace the eternal aspects of ourselves, we become free from the ideas of imperfection, temporariness and suffering. We become perfect while still experiencing 3D. Also karma ceases to exist in our lives. We are free to leave the Earth experience, to never reincarnate as humans any more. <3

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:26 PM
Going back implies we were there before, which means a perfect divine place allowed imperfection, temporariness and suffering to happen. Contradiction in terminis.

this existence/experience is for a reason, it is different from the other, it is a world for experiencing something new, without Pryor knowledge of it. the laughter of a baby the smell of a rose, the feeling of finding a soul mate, this is something different from the other side the "perfect divine place" this place may very well be perfect and is absolutely divine, just in a different way. i think the naive charm of this world is what sets it apart, the duality makes for some great unique creation, the energy is immense and just as powerful as this other realm of spirits. we are gods. we have just chosen to forget that to experience this different type of beauty.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:30 PM
When we realize who we are, when we let go of our ego-driven life and embrace the eternal aspects of ourselves, we become free from the ideas of imperfection, temporariness and suffering. We become perfect while still experiencing 3D. Also karma ceases to exist in our lives. We are free to leave the Earth experience, to never reincarnate as humans any more. <3Unless you are omniscient you cannot know such things. We become this, we become that.. but have you become?

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:31 PM
So mind = consciousness?Everything? Do you have to be a murderer, torturer, rapist as well, and do you have to be all the persons and creatures that exist and have existed? All in the name of ''spirit evolution'', but yet this ''spirit'' has no need for that according to spiritual evolutionists...We cannot be separate from the universe, existing means we are a part of it. Can you have one outside the ''3th dimensional reality''?

''Having one'' also sounds like separation.
''Who'' is it that has a soul?you already know, and yes we all have been murderers in a past life this is how the Buddha can say that having compassion for everyone is easier when he sees himself in all beings saying yes i too have been there.

Sira
25-12-2010, 09:31 PM
Chrysaetos wrote: "Where are the denser places?"
I wrote an answer but then deleted it. The more I answer the more you question. Meditate, and you will find your own answers.

Sira
25-12-2010, 09:31 PM
Unless you are omniscient you cannot know such things. We become this, we become that.. but have you become?
This is for me to know and for you to find out, for yourself.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:32 PM
you already know, and yes we all have been murderers in a past life this is how the Buddha can say that having compassion for everyone is easier when he sees himself in all beings saying yes i too have been there.If that is true, then where's the proof for you, me or someone else being a murderer in a past life? It is guess work and speculation based on religious books.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:33 PM
Chrysaetos wrote: "Where are the denser places?"
I wrote an answer but then deleted it. The more I answer the more you question. Meditate, and you will find your own answers. ''Your own answers''

Precisely! People experience what they want and desire, based on their upbringing, culture, religion, desires, ideologies and so forth.
Personal experience is not always trustworthy!

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:34 PM
Unless you are omniscient you cannot know such things. We become this, we become that.. but have you become?sometimes one can tapp into divine knowledge or "have revelations" i think sometimes it is a guide or spirit or god that turns us on to these miracles. hope you dont mind Sira for me to add my 2 cents :wink:

Sira
25-12-2010, 09:36 PM
sometimes one can tapp into divine knowledge or "have revelations" i think sometimes it is a guide or spirit or god that turns us on to these miracles. hope you dont mind Sira for me to add my 2 cents :wink:
No, I appreciate it! :hug2:

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:37 PM
''Your own answers''

Precisely! People experience what they want and desire, based on their upbringing, culture, religion, desires, ideologies and so forth.
Personal experience is not always trustworthy!i was brought up atheist and in the bible belt of good ol southern GA. my mom is disgusted by my interest in Buddhist and Vedic philosophy.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:40 PM
sometimes one can tapp into divine knowledge or "have revelations" i think sometimes it is a guide or spirit or god that turns us on to these miracles. hope you dont mind Sira for me to add my 2 cents :wink: Guides, spirits, gods.. all dependable on the culture we live in, the beliefs we have, the desires we have. The mind has amazing powers. A Christian will ''experience'' a Jesus and a Hindu will ''experience'' a Krishna. It is obvious.i was brought up atheist and in the bible belt of good ol southern GA. my mom is disgusted by my interest in Buddhist and Vedic philosophy. In our age of globalisation and technology, we easily gain new information from other cultures. We might not fully accept the culture we were born in, but through modern media (and also books) can we become influenced by other cultures.

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:43 PM
If that is true, then where's the proof for you, me or someone else being a murderer in a past life? It is guess work and speculation based on religious books.maybe i was not a murderer or maybe i was in this life, many have murdered for there freedom or to protect. maybe i was a concurer in a past life and was responsible for the death of thousands. in the past there were so many wars, so many killings in the name of whatever. chances are, i was a part of it.

if so would you forgive me? would you love me as a Buddha? your spirit certainly would. compassion has no end, no opinion, no conditions. the love is so universal and every feeling good or bad steams from it.

mahakali
25-12-2010, 09:50 PM
Guides, spirits, gods.. all dependable on the culture we live in, the beliefs we have, the desires we have. The mind has amazing powers. A Christian will ''experience'' a Jesus and a Hindu will ''experience'' a Krishna. It is obvious. In our age of globalisation and technology, we easily gain new information from other cultures. We might not fully accept the culture we were born in, but through modern media (and also books) can we become influenced by other cultures.yes we become influenced or rather inspired by those who have done some footwork, but i do not believe everything i hear, trust me. that is my motto, nothing is only one way there are exceptions to every rule. you have seen my signature, really im no robot, being a skeptic is what lead me to quantum theory and to different philosophy's trust me babe, ill be damned if im a blindfolded evangelist teaching something ive not had very DIRECT experiences by.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 09:53 PM
if so would you forgive me? would you love me as a Buddha? your spirit certainly would. compassion has no end, no opinion, no conditions. the love is so universal and every feeling good or bad steams from it. I can't tell, what matters is your life now. ill be damned if im a blindfolded evangelist teaching something ive not had very DIRECT experiences by.And these direct experiences are directly or indirectly influenced by outer stimuli. Cultural elements, beliefs, desires, thoughts are stored up in our unconscious mind. The outer stimuli provide us with the raw material out of which we fashion our experiences.

mahakali
25-12-2010, 10:24 PM
are you arguing that there is no spirit/spirits. or there are no entities without a body that exist by different means?

mahakali
25-12-2010, 10:50 PM
well ill say this, in the beginning of my journey i was not into the metaphysical, i had no belief in spiritual things, i was turned onto quantum physics and started to explore with my mind, opening up all kinds of possibilities that inspired a kundalini awakening. now there was knowledge coming to me from an unknown source, i knew nothing of the term kundalini i knew nothing of religious philosophy. i started seeing spirits and communicating with them, miracle after miracle was happening to me so i decided to start learning more about spirituality. i had a knowledge inside that we are all gods, i had amazing realizations that came way before i discovered that others talked of it as well. after all my searching and even living in a monastery, i have come to the conclusion that the truth is within and no doctrine can tell you, it may inspire you, but you learn through your own realizations of it and through your own divine connection with the universe, its very personal. im not a vegetarian because a Buddhist precept says not to eat meat, i do it because it is obvious that an animal has a soul. i can see that and feel that looking into there divine eyes, i know that they are a god just like me. no one had to tell me that, i was a veg before i ever picked up a philosophy book and before i ever even knew that Buddhists were veg, before i even heard of quantum theory. when i was a little girl i cried over humans treating animals badly. i used to love my cats like i was one of them. we were connected. i knew we were all connected. heres the thing, someone can tell you something or instill in you something but unless it resonates with you on a spiritual level you will not realize it, it has to come from a source that is infinite, like love, is love directly or indirectly influenced by outer stimuli? does a mother cat need to know that love exists to love her kitten and feed it? my mom loves me because it was a part of her spirit to love.

Chrysaetos
25-12-2010, 10:56 PM
are you arguing that there is no spirit/spirits. or there are no entities without a body that exist by different means?Neither.

@other post: We might not hear about certain concepts, but later on when we read about it, it's how we are interpreting our odd and ecstatic experiences. We need some sense of culture to place these experiences in whatever way we find them most useful. We get familiar with a specific culture, or a set of beliefs, and then we integrate ourselves in it. It is a fascinating process, but also a tricky one.

mahakali
25-12-2010, 11:13 PM
ok seems fair enough that your arguing this point and yes we are in total agreement, that is why after living in a monastery i decided that the truth has no set of cultural beliefs and that is is a big dogmatic problem to follow or even relate at all to other cultures beliefs, that is many peoples problem. as for spiritual development some cultures are a little more in touch. but still even trying to follow one will lead you away from true development and closer to confusion. my point is that everyone is not a robot following specific programing, if you ask yourself, truly ask, you will see that this is not so.

Racer X
26-12-2010, 03:00 PM
Jesus embraced the Holy Spirit and became Jesus Christ. In the same way, -- or, rather, in his own way, -- Siddhartha embraced it, and became Siddhartha Christ; the Buddha. Christ is The Higher Self, and when you grow into your higher self, no matter what your first name may be, your last name (and the last name by which you will ever be known) will always be Christ; the Anointed.

Jesus may be your teacher, but Christ is within you. Regardless of who your teacher may be, or what spiritual tradition you may follow, the peak at which all souls arrive, and from which they regard the whole of Creation, is the same. Though our teachers may be men, and our paths may be man-made, the wisdom is from God, and it is God within us who comprehends it.

It is.....
As it has always been....

The time to AWAKEN.....is here.......NOW.

Pray for those who do not understand this....
Never answer anger with anger....
"An eye for an eye.....
leads to a blind world" -Mahatma Gandhi

Close your eyes and feel the Peace within.

If you cannot .....
Find a "PRACTICE" and DO IT until Peace is achieved.

or

Suffer the pain of believing you are separate.

Until you have a change of mind brought on by a change of heart.

Valus
28-12-2010, 10:16 PM
I've enjoyed reading Amilius', Chrysaetos', and Perry's posts. On the topic of scientific materialism and primary assumptions... This video of Terence McKenna discussing the absurdity of the Big Bang Theory gives me a kick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGp4GNH9Hnk (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatc h%3Fv%3DJGp4GNH9Hnk)

Perry J
28-12-2010, 11:54 PM
Nice video, Valus.
Have you heard about the Flat Earth Society?
Well educated, intelligent people are absolutely convinced the Earth is flat, and they claim scientific evidence for it. It is impossible to prove them wrong, because they refuse to question their basic assumptions.
There are no proofs for anything, but there are only "rules" that work within a defined sphere (assumption). It becomes dangerous when people do not realize that, but insist they have ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE of WHAT IS.

mahakali
29-12-2010, 04:26 AM
here ill ask again, is love directly or indirectly influenced by outer stimuli?

Chrysaetos
29-12-2010, 10:23 AM
There are no proofs for anything, but there are only "rules" that work within a defined sphere (assumption). It becomes dangerous when people do not realize that, but insist they have ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE of WHAT IS. There are certain established facts that are true, an example is the earth is round. Just because people have beliefs think differently, doesn't mean that there are no facts.
Some people might believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make it flat. It only is in the minds of the deluded.
What is even more dangerous is that post-modern relativism, which leads the door wide open to charlatans, pseudo-sciences, and quacks.

psychoslice
29-12-2010, 10:34 AM
Yes to not Know yourself as the Christ is actually being the anti-Christ, this is the mistake that most Christians get them selves into, they shove Jesus up on a pedestal where no one is allow to reach.

Valus
29-12-2010, 01:48 PM
The earth is round (or spherical, rather) when we look at it from space, and flat when we stand on its surface. You've heard it said, "Man is the measure of all things." We measure things according to how they appear to us from a specific vantage point, and with the senses and/or instruments at our disposal. Who is to say that, with other senses and/or instruments, and from unsuspected vantage points, one might not conclude that the earth is shaped like a cone, or a merkaba? And who is to say that these other senses and vantage points might not be higher and closer to the truth -- just as we now conclude that the earth regarded from space gives a more accurate picture than the earth when viewed from its surface?

Or perhaps no vantage point is more "true" than another. Each is equally accurate, and equally misleading, with respect to the conditions of its appearance. Even a hallucination is real, and accurate, within the context of its appearance. It is a true representation of what one sees when one is deranged, or whatever. Of course, we assume there's a "normal" state, from which one may become deranged. And with respect to this so-called normal state, we decide what is real and what is hallucination, or distortion. But, really, no two states of consciousness are identical, and sanity -- true sanity -- may ultimately be very far from what most, if not all, human beings experience.

In fact, there may be no sanity, and no ultimately sane view of things. Perspective, by its nature, may be subjective and fragmentary. Any experience of the whole, as such, may be untranslatable into human perception; it may be something which, even when grasped in the highest mystical state, must be let go of, if we are to take our places and our parts as human beings in the great drama and mystery of unfolding life. ("Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.") Perhaps there really is no solution or answer, and if there was, we would not exist. Perhaps we are the ambassadors of God, carving out new paths at the frontiers of Creation, and asking the questions which even God wants answered?

Perry J
30-12-2010, 08:00 PM
Valus: Well spoken.
There are levels of consciousness. And there is identity. We identify with what we experience as reality, and that experience is governed by our current level of consciusness.

And all identity - even a false identity - has a survival instinct.

Take for example a drug addict. He has identified himself with a role, that the drugs can give him, and he experiences reality through that role, that filter. The addiction is not the drugs, but rather the strength of the survival instinct of the false identity. Try to convince him of the existence of a "higher state of consciousness", and he will most likely attack you. He will listen to you only when he is fed up with his current life. Jesus was attacked also, because he talked about a "higher state", a kingdom within. Some fishermen leaved their nets and followed him, some did not, they were still addicted to their nets.

And today, we are all addicts, not on drugs maybe, but on some false identity.

At every level of consciousness, what we experience as ABSOLUTE TRUTH exists. Because that is what builds our sense of identity.
That also implies that at every level we think we see the REAL reality - this is especially true for lower levels. The less we know, the more certain we are that we know. Have you seen that?

"No vantage point is more "true" than another".
Well, I would see it like this: We have free will. The universe gives us the experience we want. Or more exactly: The experience we create - out from our state of consciousness. There is no "sin", and punishment for it, but there are consequences. We are responsible for the consequences of what we choose.

We have to look at ourselves. Not at what is outside ourselves.

Valus
30-12-2010, 08:11 PM
Good thoughts.

The less we know, the more certain we are that we know. Have you seen that?

Indeed.

We have free will.

Don't get me started on free will, lol.

Okay, too late.

I have to ask you to consider
what place ignorance has in our "free" choices.

Can those who "know not what they do"
really make free choices?

If I drive over the speed-limit,
the consequence is that I may be ticketed...

If I am ignorant of the speed-limit,
I will still suffer the consequence.

But was my choice (to speed) free,
if I didn't know I was speeding?

What do we really mean by "free will"?

Chrysaetos
30-12-2010, 08:46 PM
And there is identity. We identify with what we experience as reality, and that experience is governed by our current level of consciusness."No vantage point is more "true" than another".
All nice and sparkling but I'm not buying it.

If someone believed that the moon is made out of cheese, is that person correct? No.
If someone believed that humans evolved out of teapots, is that person correct? No.

Sure, they can believe in it and think it's the truth, but that doesn't make it so. Our beliefs about reality do not make it what it is.

Sira
30-12-2010, 08:50 PM
Chrysaetos...
I wish your guidance will gently start lifting you to 5D energies, if it is according to your Divine timing... with your zeal the ascension would be imminent. :D

Perry J
30-12-2010, 08:50 PM
Valus,
We really do have free will. So free, indeed, that it also implies that we have free will NOT to have free will. That's the point. We want leaders, this way or that way.

Ignorance stems from our unwillingness to take full responsibility for our lives. There is always some OTHER to blame, always some authority to trust, who makes the decisions and makes life simpler for us. Within such a hierarchy, "free will" becomes something that appears to be freedom, but is not. It's an illusory free will. There is something outside ourselves, more powerful than we are, that we give power to - by chosing not to take full responsibility over our lives - in other words to be ignorant.

As a child, a very cold winter day, I peed in my pants to warm myself. It felt very comfortable in the beginning, but then things soon became catastrophic. I could not, however, see myself as responsible for the situation but blamed my mother for not giving me warm clothes, and God for giving us this coldness.
An outher authority more powerful than me, was responsible.

I have often thought about this incident. The decision to pee in my pants did not feel right on an intuitive level, but it was easy. I did not take any responibility. The decision to be ignorant is like that. The consequence is restricted freedom.

Valus
31-12-2010, 07:50 AM
Perry,

"Freewill and freedom
are opposite sides of a magnet –
opposite poles.

In fact, they are poles apart.”

~ Dr. George King

Valus
31-12-2010, 07:55 AM
Chrysaetos,

I realize that sentence can be misleading, when taken out of context; but, if you read it with respect to the sentences which immediately follow it in that paragraph, you should have no difficulty grasping my meaning. The point I was making was all about context, ironically enough.

Perry J
31-12-2010, 10:04 AM
Perry,

"Freewill and freedom
are opposite sides of a magnet –
opposite poles.

In fact, they are poles apart.”

~ Dr. George King

Fantastic! :hug3:

I looked at your blog, and I like it. I have 2 blogs, one in Swedish, because I'm Swedish, but I started an English one too: http://cosmicdiviner.wordpress.com/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fcosmicdiviner.wordpress.com%252525252 52F)

King's quote points to a truth. But, it makes me think of another quote, from the book The Christ is Born in You, by Kim Michaels:

God knows how the carnal mind can turn a true statement into a relative doctrine.

If you do not turn Dr King's statement into a doctrine, it reveals a stunning truth about ourselves, we are able to see our own ego and how it works.
But if you DO turn it into a doctrine, you interpret it WITH the ego. Then it becomes "Free will IS NOT freedom. Then we can take free will away from people. Free will is evil."

jalini
17-02-2011, 11:55 PM
Greetings Valus, glad to see you back in the saddle!

AnelaKini
24-02-2011, 03:03 PM
Hi Valus. :)

astroboy
28-05-2011, 05:19 PM
Don't be confused with semantics. Let me even out the rough patches by showing you that all religions sprang out from a single focus which is the higher self, Soul.

Here are the similarities:-

Prajapatir vai idam-agre asit
Tasya vak dvitiya asit
Vak vai Paramam Brahma
--Vedas
Translation
In the beginning was Prajapati (the Creator),
With Him was the Vak (the Word),
And the Vak (the Word) was verily the
Supreme Brahma.

The Naam or Word is the Power of God that has created the Universe,
The same Power is sustaining all by its immanence in every form.
GURU RAM DAS

Upholding all things by the Word of His Power. Hebrews 1:3
And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. Colossians 1:17

By the Word of the Lord were the heavens made,
And all the host of them . . . for He spake, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast. Psalm 33:6, 9

Amilius777
11-10-2011, 07:32 PM
First off-
Nice thread from the original poster.

If I may add, there seems to be a lot of complaints about Christ/Buddha and "naming the name".

First off, yes "The Buddha" is the higher self that Siddhartha was talking about. He said everyone can be a Buddha. Everyone can become awakened. I wholeheartedly believe this. Many before and after Siddhartha did this.

A lot of problems with Jesus and the Christ is that both sides of the coin are highly uniformed and they forget that Christ is the Greek name for "The Messiah". It is not going to be everyone's last name. Christ is not Jesus' last name. Christ is an office that Jesus fulfilled and was prophesied to fulfill for the Jews. So obviously we are not all going to be Christ, 'The Messiah". That wouldn't make sense. But Jesus did tell his Apostles that they too will do what he did and do even greater things.

The Catholic Church is correct when they say Jesus is the only Christ because he was the prophesied savior in that generation and age. But Yogananda who brought the ideas of "Christ is the only begotten Son of God" is not a new idea. In The Catholic Church when a soul is united to the Trinity, God makes the soul divine and becomes a Son of God and is filled with the "divine nature, or divine consciousness of the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son".

See? All Yogananda did was flesh it out in a better way. Not necessarily speak from the highest truth because if you read his work carefully side by side brilliant scholars he confuses certain words. I remember he referred to the "prince of this world" to the Christ Consciousness in a sentence in his Second Coming of Christ Book he wrote. He is plainly wrong. Because in all the gospels the "prince of this world" is actually Satan. Thus Yogananda was not 100% perfect.

Edgar Cayce an American psychic who said the Four Gospels were complete and true to every extent contradicted himself saying that Jesus was the reincarnation of a bunch of flawed individuals in the Bible when Jesus is said by his Apostles to be without "sin" or error. Meaning Jesus had no previous karma or perhaps no previous lifetime. But Jesus in Cayce's eyes became the Christ. And this is true! And the Catholic actually forgets this! Jesus became this office, this title. He was announced at birth to be the Christ, but he had to become it. He even says it himself!.

So you see how both sides of the coin and even its edges are a bit off in many cases.

wheninsilence
12-10-2011, 05:16 AM
Very true.
Christ is not a person but a Consciousness, this is very important, because every religion in their mystic teachings (even Islam: read Rumi's work!) addresses a consciousness that can only be found within. The Christ Consciousness and Tao, and Nirvana, is exactly the same thing.

Jesus is not the only son of God. We are all sons of God (or daughters).
What IS the only son of God is the Christ Consciousness. This consciousness is universal an can be reached by everyone regardless of religion.

Jesus was a common person (born by a woman), who attained the Christ Consciousness and showed others how to do the same. The Catholic Church, however, has twisted the teachings and put Jesus on a pedestal, it's considered blasphemy to follow his example, and there is nothing to find within, but we instead have to follow dogmas and priests. This is the greatest scandal of all time. And it has brainwashed us all so deeply.

Power elites (The church is of course one of them) who want to control people always try to raise people against each other and maintain conflict.

I really agree. It's interesting to see that Jesus speaks of this aswell...atleast that's what I make of it. Peace!


Matthew 6:33 - But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Luke 17:20 - Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”


:wheninsilence:

Amilius777
15-10-2011, 05:27 PM
Perry J-

If you are speculating how Jesus became the Christ, Paramahansa Yogananda gave a great explanation. I don't know if I 100% believe it because Edgar Cayce also gave his lifetimes as Jesus which were very strange and didn't mix well. Some think that Cayce's lives of Christ: Adam, Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph, Joshua, Jeshua, Asaph, Zend, and Jesus were not one soul but the Universal Christ Soul- (Christ consciousness), instead of a specific personality. The only life Cayce personally commented on Jesus past life was as "Joshua". He said for without Moses and Joshua (who was bodily Jesus) there is no Christ. Christ in all ages, Joshua in one, Melchizedek in another, Joseph in another. The only lives of Jesus which would make sense are Yogananda's Elisha and Cayce's Joshua because of their names and how they progressed spiritually.

Jesus is Greek for Joshua or Yeshua. Elisha was the disciple of Elijah who succeeded him with a "double portion of his Spirit". Elijah transformed him physical body into astral energy and ascended to the second heaven which refers to the higher astral planes for 900 years. Elisha carried out his ministry for 500 years and was even worshiped and had a few disciples. Elisha in Greek is "Eliseus" which means "God is salvation" or 'God saves" just as Jesus means "God saves" "God is my savior".

Yogananda went into deep meditation to discover that in a previous lifetime Jesus was Elisues and Elijah was John.

What happened was that Elijah was the greatest prophet of the Hebrew People. He surpassed Moses and all those before Him. Elijah could have been the prophetic Christ but it was Elisha (Eliseus) chosen by God in his soul destiny from the beginning. Elisha asked for a double portion of Elijah's spiritual consciousness (the only begotten Son) and Elijah having given up his mantle could only ascend to the higher astral planes. Elisha later did all the miracles of Elijah but doubled and even did things Elijah couldn't do. Elisha died and the bones of his corpse in a tomb were able to revive people back to Life!

The irony is that Elijah waited in the astral plane for 900 years. Elisha went to the highest realm of divine consciousness- at one with the Father. 900 years later Elijah reincarnates as John the Baptist in a lower position which is why He wasn't able to remember his past life as Elijah and it is why he could only baptize with Water and not the Holy Ghost. The soul of Jesus which was now an individualized Christ Consciousness and no other identity as Elisha or whoever he was before, incarnated as a new soul record as the Son of Mary through immaculate conception like Gautama 500 years earlier who Jesus succeeded.

Jesus told everyone that John was the greatest of the prophets born of woman.But this title is of Elijah in the Old Testament. And Jesus confirmed that John was the Elijah to come. But later at the transfiguration after John was beheaded, he resumed his mantle as Elijah liberated in God the Father with Moses and appeared next to Jesus on Mount Tabor.

Jesus was chosen to be the one to open the door to God the Father's House for the people of Israel and bring the Western Gentiles into that family.

psychoslice
15-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Yes i agree Valus, but don't get caught up in the word Christ, the Buddha, the Krishna are all the same, they all point to our true inner Being, and don't get caught up in the word Being also lol.:smile:

Morpheus
01-01-2012, 04:55 PM
"Christ", is a description, and a title. It means, "Messiah", and, "Savior"

As in, Emmanuel, ("God with us.")

His actual earthly name was Jesus, Son of Joseph. And,
"Jesus of Nazereth".

His appearance had been prophesied through the ages in scripture, from Genesis onward, we read.
In the oldest written book in the Bible, the Book of Job, estimated by the scholars to have been written around Abraham's time, before the Law was given to Moses, it is stated:

"I know that my Redeemer lives, and in the end I shall see Him upon the Earth."


The statement acknowledges both continuance of life after this earthly passing, as well as the prophecied appearance of the Messiah.

Miss Hepburn
01-01-2012, 06:44 PM
Jesus embraced the Holy Spirit and became Jesus Christ. In the same way, -- or, rather, in his own way, -- Siddhartha embraced it, and became Siddhartha Christ; the Buddha. Christ is The Higher Self, and when you grow into your higher self, no matter what your first name may be, your last name (and the last name by which you will ever be known) will always be Christ; the Anointed.

Jesus may be your teacher, but Christ is within you. Regardless of who your teacher may be, or what spiritual tradition you may follow, the peak at which all souls arrive, and from which they regard the whole of Creation, is the same. Though our teachers may be men, and our paths may be man-made, the wisdom is from God, and it is God within us who comprehends it.
Very apt that you would include a lightbulb in your topic title.
Excellent.

:icon_thumleft:

Just saw this was started in 2010! Ha! Crazy.

Morpheus
12-01-2012, 12:01 AM
The Truth just is... no matter from what direction, or in what classification it is evident.
It is not limited to cultural barriers, particular faiths, or sects, or denominations therein.

God is Truth. Can the statement, "Truth is God", also be said?

Examples, of between Judeo/christian and Far Eastern:

"Many people, if they do not carefully read the teachings of Buddha, claim that Buddha did not believe in God.
However, Gautama Buddha speaks of the Supramundane (Lokuttra, Lokottra) or Unconditioned (Asankhata, Asamskrta). He refers to God as being the known, but unknowable, and that even an attempt to label the name God is insufficient to define the Absolute.
Below is Buddha’s description of the Absolute, in the Udana passage of the Kuddaka Nikaya:30

“There is, O monks, an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. Were there not, O monks, this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, created, formed. Since, O monks, there is an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, therefore is there an escape from that born, originated, created, formed. What is dependent, that also moves; what is independent does not move. Where there is no movement, there is rest; where rest is, there is no desire; where there is no desire, there is neither coming nor going; no ceasing-to-be; no further coming-to-be. Where there is no ceasing-to-be, no further coming-to-be, there is neither this shore (this world) nor the other shore (Nibbana31), nor anything between them." 32 Udana 8:3
(Cf. translation in Minor Anthologies, pg. 98.)


Also:

"The mind is everything. What you think you become." ~ The Buddha

"As a man thinketh, so he is"-
Proverbs (The Bible)

Jesus said this:
"According to your Faith, so be it unto you".

Also:

Gal 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one in Christ. Jesus."
The New Testament

"Here there is no man, there is no woman, No self, no person,
and no (egoic) consciousness.
Labeling 'male' or 'female' has no essence,

But deceives the evil-minded world."
~ Buddhist Teaching

Miss Hepburn
12-01-2012, 03:09 AM
I like you're comparing Buddha's and Jesus' words.

Xan
12-01-2012, 03:16 AM
There's a nice little book called, "Jesus and Buddha: parallel sayings"

Here's this from a mini-review:

Jesus and Buddha were separated by five hundred years, three thousand miles, and two drastically different cultures. Yet this trade paper edition of the highly acclaimed hardback juxtaposes passages from the New Testament and ancient Buddhist scriptures to illuminate the striking similarity between their lives, deeds, and teachings.


Xan

Morpheus
20-01-2012, 08:11 PM
Well, if one is prgressing, one may fnd themselves steppring back as it were and asking certain questions.


Such as, did Jesus confirm the Far Eastern teachings of "Maya" concerning the material world being illusory?
One might see that regarding His teachings on faith, the effectiveness of prayer, and the miracles performed, that yes, He did.

In fact, seems His long prophesied appearance was in the paradigm and manner of the Far Eastern, to His fellow Jews in the middle east.

Perry J
20-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Perry J-

If you are speculating how Jesus became the Christ, Paramahansa Yogananda gave a great explanation. I don't know if I 100% believe it because Edgar Cayce also gave his lifetimes as Jesus which were very strange and didn't mix well. Some think that Cayce's lives of Christ: Adam, Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph, Joshua, Jeshua, Asaph, Zend, and Jesus were not one soul but the Universal Christ Soul- (Christ consciousness), instead of a specific personality. The only life Cayce personally commented on Jesus past life was as "Joshua". He said for without Moses and Joshua (who was bodily Jesus) there is no Christ. Christ in all ages, Joshua in one, Melchizedek in another, Joseph in another. The only lives of Jesus which would make sense are Yogananda's Elisha and Cayce's Joshua because of their names and how they progressed spiritually.

Jesus is Greek for Joshua or Yeshua. Elisha was the disciple of Elijah who succeeded him with a "double portion of his Spirit". Elijah transformed him physical body into astral energy and ascended to the second heaven which refers to the higher astral planes for 900 years. Elisha carried out his ministry for 500 years and was even worshiped and had a few disciples. Elisha in Greek is "Eliseus" which means "God is salvation" or 'God saves" just as Jesus means "God saves" "God is my savior".

Yogananda went into deep meditation to discover that in a previous lifetime Jesus was Elisues and Elijah was John.

What happened was that Elijah was the greatest prophet of the Hebrew People. He surpassed Moses and all those before Him. Elijah could have been the prophetic Christ but it was Elisha (Eliseus) chosen by God in his soul destiny from the beginning. Elisha asked for a double portion of Elijah's spiritual consciousness (the only begotten Son) and Elijah having given up his mantle could only ascend to the higher astral planes. Elisha later did all the miracles of Elijah but doubled and even did things Elijah couldn't do. Elisha died and the bones of his corpse in a tomb were able to revive people back to Life!

The irony is that Elijah waited in the astral plane for 900 years. Elisha went to the highest realm of divine consciousness- at one with the Father. 900 years later Elijah reincarnates as John the Baptist in a lower position which is why He wasn't able to remember his past life as Elijah and it is why he could only baptize with Water and not the Holy Ghost. The soul of Jesus which was now an individualized Christ Consciousness and no other identity as Elisha or whoever he was before, incarnated as a new soul record as the Son of Mary through immaculate conception like Gautama 500 years earlier who Jesus succeeded.

Jesus told everyone that John was the greatest of the prophets born of woman.But this title is of Elijah in the Old Testament. And Jesus confirmed that John was the Elijah to come. But later at the transfiguration after John was beheaded, he resumed his mantle as Elijah liberated in God the Father with Moses and appeared next to Jesus on Mount Tabor.

Jesus was chosen to be the one to open the door to God the Father's House for the people of Israel and bring the Western Gentiles into that family.

This is a late answer, sorry for that, hopefully you're still following this...

Edgar Casey is very interesting, and it has come to my knowledge that David Wilcock claims to be the reincarnation of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzsPhgN6FwQ&feature=related

And this is what Jesus says (!) about Paramahansa Yogananda. Well, it's up to you to believe, of course...
http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealjesus/jesusanswers/oldteachers/yogananda.html

Amilius777
21-01-2012, 04:44 PM
Be careful with that site- AskRealJesus.

It was created by a single guy who has videos on youtube and his behavior has always been in question.

Why would there need to be someone holding a Christ office for east and west? I know Yogananda believed Krishna and Jesus to be the Christ of the East and Christ of the West. This is true, but as "icons" or symbols of the Higher Self.

There is no comparison between Krishna and Jesus. In the Gita Krishna associates himself so much with the Christ Consciousness that it seems he never was a human vehicle. Jesus' explanation of oneness with the Christ Consciousness is on a human level who admits that he is imperfect. The Christ is an office foretold by the prophets of old that a Man would come and unite all of Israel back to God in his shedding of blood.

There can not be two Christs. There can be as many Buddhas as there are Saints. But there is only one Christ which was foretold for over 3,000 years in Jewish texts and possibly Egyptian texts. Siddartha Buddha also had a prophecy of the One coming who would bridge the gap for souls to the highest nirvana and have disks in his palms and feet and a wound on his side and piercing on his forehead. Well this is obviously Jesus- nailed in the palms and feet, stab wound on side of chest. and crown of thorns on his head with wounds.

Jesus is the only Christ (Son) not because God created him that way, nor because The Catholic Church says so. Jesus is the only "Example" because of his will to do God's will to the very end even in crucifying his own body to reach that supreme state of Absolute unity with the Father to be the beacon of hope and advocate of Mankind.

In my opinion there are many people who were "vessels" of the Christ Consciousness- Siddhartha Buddha, Elijah, Moses, Bhagavan Krishna and such. But it seems from all "Spiritual" Literature that Jesus was the only vessel that pushed the standard for mankind towards God Himself.

Perry J
22-01-2012, 02:54 PM
Be careful with that site- AskRealJesus.

It was created by a single guy who has videos on youtube and his behavior has always been in question.

Why would there need to be someone holding a Christ office for east and west? I know Yogananda believed Krishna and Jesus to be the Christ of the East and Christ of the West. This is true, but as "icons" or symbols of the Higher Self.

There is no comparison between Krishna and Jesus. In the Gita Krishna associates himself so much with the Christ Consciousness that it seems he never was a human vehicle. Jesus' explanation of oneness with the Christ Consciousness is on a human level who admits that he is imperfect. The Christ is an office foretold by the prophets of old that a Man would come and unite all of Israel back to God in his shedding of blood.

There can not be two Christs. There can be as many Buddhas as there are Saints. But there is only one Christ which was foretold for over 3,000 years in Jewish texts and possibly Egyptian texts. Siddartha Buddha also had a prophecy of the One coming who would bridge the gap for souls to the highest nirvana and have disks in his palms and feet and a wound on his side and piercing on his forehead. Well this is obviously Jesus- nailed in the palms and feet, stab wound on side of chest. and crown of thorns on his head with wounds.

Jesus is the only Christ (Son) not because God created him that way, nor because The Catholic Church says so. Jesus is the only "Example" because of his will to do God's will to the very end even in crucifying his own body to reach that supreme state of Absolute unity with the Father to be the beacon of hope and advocate of Mankind.

In my opinion there are many people who were "vessels" of the Christ Consciousness- Siddhartha Buddha, Elijah, Moses, Bhagavan Krishna and such. But it seems from all "Spiritual" Literature that Jesus was the only vessel that pushed the standard for mankind towards God Himself.

I agree on your opinion: There are many vessels of the Christ Consciousness, and Jesus is also one of them. Jesus was a human being, who achieved Christ Consciousness. There can be only one Christ, if we with Christ mean the Christ Consiousness. Christ IS a consciousness! But this conscousness is also Nirvana, Tao, and the corresponding from the other religions.

It is the state of consciousness where you can access God within you.

The Catholic Church elevated Jesus on a pedestal, without reach for common people - if not through the (power-hungry) priests. The church tries to manifest the picture of an outer God, and not at all the God within, as Jesus was talkig about.
This is essentially the message from the AskRealJesus site...

Schurchy
25-01-2012, 12:28 AM
Let's not be so arrogant as to claim the Christ is the absolute highest one could aspire to.


Predawn, for u are seeing it all wrong!

We are not showing favoritism to christianity! Not in the slightest!

For you see, when we mean christ. We mean "Christ Consciousness"
Christ was a word that was used before the birth of Jesus, to show spiritual enlightenment, on the 3rd level of Consciousness.

In other words, Jesus, and Buddha, became "Christ", i.e. higher consciousness.

Also quicknote, when the bible says Christ will come again, it means Christ consiousness. On dec. 21/ 2012, most of us willl become spiritually enlightened like we did 13k years ago, and have a better understanding of the soul.

*EDIT-lol didnt see the other 2 pages my bad hahaha

psychoslice
25-01-2012, 12:59 AM
Predawn, for u are seeing it all wrong!

We are not showing favoritism to christianity! Not in the slightest!

For you see, when we mean christ. We mean "Christ Consciousness"
Christ was a word that was used before the birth of Jesus, to show spiritual enlightenment, on the 3rd level of Consciousness.

In other words, Jesus, and Buddha, became "Christ", i.e. higher consciousness.

Also quicknote, when the bible says Christ will come again, it means Christ consiousness. On dec. 21/ 2012, most of us willl become spiritually enlightened like we did 13k years ago, and have a better understanding of the soul.

*EDIT-lol didnt see the other 2 pages my bad hahaha
Wonderfully said Schurchy, except for the 2012 thingy,:smile:

Morpheus
20-02-2012, 01:01 AM
Very true.
Christ is not a person but a Consciousness, this is very important, because every religion in their mystic teachings (even Islam: read Rumi's work!) addresses a consciousness that can only be found within. The Christ Consciousness and Tao, and Nirvana, is exactly the same thing.

Jesus is not the only son of God. We are all sons of God (or daughters).
What IS the only son of God is the Christ Consciousness. This consciousness is universal an can be reached by everyone regardless of religion.

Jesus was a common person (born by a woman), who attained the Christ Consciousness and showed others how to do the same. The Catholic Church, however, has twisted the teachings and put Jesus on a pedestal, it's considered blasphemy to follow his example, and there is nothing to find within, but we instead have to follow dogmas and priests. This is the greatest scandal of all time. And it has brainwashed us all so deeply.

Power elites (The church is of course one of them) who want to control people always try to raise people against each other and maintain conflict.

I disagree., concerning Personage. Jesus fulfilled the many prophecies written though the millenia. Including the statements in Isaiah as to being born of the Virgin.
Miracles happen, and, I believe in them.

Christ is both a Person, and Consciousness, via the Holy Spirit.

n Revelation, His statement to us through John is ,
"I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

To be noted, He also states too, "26 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fbib le.cc%252Frevelation%252F2-26.htm) And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fbib le.cc%252Frevelation%252F2-27.htm) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fbib le.cc%252Frevelation%252F2-28.htm) And I will give him the morning star."
http://kjv.us/revelation/2.htm
True, ego in humanity, (to be equated with the devil), seeks to control.
This is part of human nature, which is evident everywhere, not just in, "Religion".

There are many aspects to Christianity, as there are also in Buddhism, and Hinduism, Islam, etc.
True? Not all are extremist, or fundamentalist.

National Geographic has done a nice piece on Christianity and the Apostles, this month. Not as comprehensive online as in the magazine though.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/03/apostles/todhunter-text (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fngm.national geographic.com%252525252F2012%252525252F03%2525252 52Fapostles%252525252Ftodhunter-text)

The article in the magazine depicts Christians in India, and other countries who are deposed of their homes, injured, killed and assaulted because of their Christian faith by Hindu's. As well as Islamists.

www.persecution.com (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.persecut ion.com) is a support site involving this, also.

However, Jesus did Himself speak about Unity in God, He equated people with angels, and stated from Psalm 82, "you are gods".
Ultimately, there is unity of all in God. Duality being part of the illusion. Many are not aware of the fact that the Bible as a whole uses stars to symbolize both angels, and people, alike.

Morpheus
20-02-2012, 01:14 AM
psycho:
Also quicknote, when the bible says Christ will come again, it means Christ consiousness. On dec. 21/ 2012, most of us willl become spiritually enlightened like we did 13k years ago, and have a better understanding of the soul.


Whats to understand? We are more and other than physical, material, in this "Construct", of space/time.

Perhaps, the, "Rapture" should be in a separate thread.

Amilius777
09-03-2013, 05:47 AM
I don't believe in "global" conversion to some abstract "Hippie Consciousness".

It is an invasion of free will and it takes the Higher Forces a long time to influence and evolve mankind through his free will.

I am so glad 12/21/12 is over. We don't have to hear that stuff anymore.

I wonder how many authors gave up after 12/22/12?

Poor devils. What will they write next?

jalini
14-10-2013, 11:16 PM
I am so glad 12/21/12 is over. We don't have to hear that stuff anymore.

I wonder how many authors gave up after 12/22/12?

Poor devils. What will they write next?

Hallelujah my Friend!

Amilius777
15-10-2013, 01:17 AM
Humanity was not enlightened 13,000 years ago.

Humanity may have had just as much knowledge as we do now discovering nails and sandal prints over 100,000 years old!

But human consciousness has not changed.

The only thing that has had it's ups and downs is technology.

Human beings nowadays and human beings 2,000 years ago during the Christian Era are in fact scientifically and mentally proven to be the same.

Human nature doesn't change.

Have there been enlightened individuals? Surely. Buddha, Confucius, anyone preaching the Golden Rule. These are men of Wisdom.

But has the world at large been enlightened? No.

Morpheus
17-10-2013, 04:36 PM
I don't believe in "global" conversion to some abstract "Hippie Consciousness".

It is an invasion of free will and it takes the Higher Forces a long time to influence and evolve mankind through his free will.

I am so glad 12/21/12 is over. We don't have to hear that stuff anymore.

I wonder how many authors gave up after 12/22/12?

Poor devils. What will they write next?

Short sighted of you.

"More proof of the matrix universe, we are living in a computer simulation and could be inside another computer simulation and another.
I found this article, "Physicists May Have Evidence Universe Is A Computer Simulation"

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html)

The Mayan calendar was also mathematically accurate, and signaled a change, and a new paradigm which we are now in.

The above link also is about Biblical prophecy.

Morpheus
18-01-2014, 06:28 PM
There is a program running, or, a "Script".

Amilius777
19-04-2014, 05:56 PM
Physicists are closer to discovering that we live in a "Multiverse" vs. a program.

String Theory is becoming closer to the truth than anything else. This solves a lot of problems and unifies all laws in the universe into one law called "string theory".

There are or were universes before our universe. Depending on how many "dimensions" these other universes possess isn't known yet.

I can imagine these universes existing in 4 dimensions and higher. I think the material universe is the only universe that has a 3rd-dimension which is technically the lowest dimension to comprehend.

This means that there could be life in these other dimensions/universes. It wouldn't be physical life.

The Eastern term "astral" is the closest assumption of what these bodies of life would inhabit. Pure-energy bodies or what a religion calls "spirit-body".

Michio Kaku isn't to be regarded as the smartest physicist but he is a good poster child for the String Theory. He has a lot of books on this even though I find his "Future-esque books" to be kinda far fetched.

There is a script but the script is something set into motion from the Big Bang. Every since the first burst of light everything has been designed.

But now scientists think that despite this pre-design and script which exploded from the Bang there is room for change and free will, or free will on the level of lifeforms.

I actually feel that majority of us are new souls in comparison to other dimensions and worlds. New souls in general to the age of this universe. Angels and archangels are spirits of a greatly ancient period before this Universe was even a thought. That is why they are so set in their ways of good, neutral, evil, and extremely evil or demonic.

I always felt that God purposely begat the Physical universe yet infused with his Christ-Self (Logos) to give a new playground to new souls, or his 2nd Children (physical-incarnate beings).

I know...too much info for a small conversation. Just had to put that out there.

Miss Hepburn
19-04-2014, 10:08 PM
Ammy, I do wish you lived in my city and we could go out each week
for a bite and talk like this.
:hug3:

Amilius777
30-04-2014, 07:32 PM
Same here Miss Hepburn. Same here :smile:

Seawolf
01-05-2014, 12:41 PM
Jesus embraced the Holy Spirit and became Jesus Christ. In the same way, -- or, rather, in his own way, -- Siddhartha embraced it, and became Siddhartha Christ; the Buddha. Christ is The Higher Self, and when you grow into your higher self, no matter what your first name may be, your last name (and the last name by which you will ever be known) will always be Christ; the Anointed.

Jesus may be your teacher, but Christ is within you. Regardless of who your teacher may be, or what spiritual tradition you may follow, the peak at which all souls arrive, and from which they regard the whole of Creation, is the same. Though our teachers may be men, and our paths may be man-made, the wisdom is from God, and it is God within us who comprehends it.
Some people don't believe in God at all. They have nothing to do with this.

Interfaith is about learning about different religions and respecting their differences. It isn't about putting all religions under the umbrella of your own belief system.

Baile
11-05-2014, 05:44 PM
Some people don't believe in God at all. They have nothing to do with this.

Interfaith is about learning about different religions and respecting their differences. It isn't about putting all religions under the umbrella of your own belief system.Valus posted that over four years ago. Isn't there a statute of limitations on your "That's not appropriate" message? Several people gave the post a thumbs up, including me. Isn't it good enough that someone shared an inspired thought, one that inspired others?

Seawolf
11-05-2014, 10:21 PM
Valus posted that over four years ago. Isn't there a statute of limitations on your "That's not appropriate" message? Several people gave the post a thumbs up, including me. Isn't it good enough that someone shared an inspired thought, one that inspired others?
I'm sorry that you don't like my posts, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I hope the best for you though. :hug3:

Touched
22-05-2014, 03:18 AM
Interfaith is about learning about different religions and respecting their differences. It isn't about putting all religions under the umbrella of your own belief system.
WOW. :icon_eek: I really have a hard time that YOU of all people, the King of 'all spirituality is RELIGION' would write THAT!

Touched
22-05-2014, 03:18 AM
I'm sorry that you don't like my posts, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I hope the best for you though. :hug3:
You know SW, you really seem to be writing that a lot. Maybe, just maybe, it's not about the people you are replying too...

Morpheus
22-05-2014, 07:15 AM
Thanks for your lucidity, Sea.

Seawolf
22-05-2014, 10:28 PM
Thanks for your lucidity, Sea.
Thanks I appreciate it. I think I'm starting to understand how Christians feel now, the hatred out there for your religion is kind of ridiculous. I'm sorry that you have to go through all that. :icon_frown:

Morpheus
25-05-2014, 06:29 PM
Thanks I appreciate it. I think I'm starting to understand how Christians feel now, the hatred out there for your religion is kind of ridiculous. I'm sorry that you have to go through all that. :icon_frown:

Sea, so what else is new, though? Technology and innovation has progressed and changed, the human heart and nature, hasn't.

Meanwhile, it is all a known apart from time, and space.

Seawolf
28-05-2014, 05:00 PM
Sea, so what else is new, though? Technology and innovation has progressed and changed, the human heart and nature, hasn't.

Meanwhile, it is all a known apart from time, and space.
Religious intolerance leads to violence in the end. Standing up and saying something benefits people of all religions who are discriminated against.

Morpheus
18-06-2014, 04:23 AM
Yes, but Sea. What is "Religious Intolerance" really about?
Human Nature, about which the Bible attends to well.

However, perhaps that falls short also. Reallly it is about this evolved animal/mammal situation. Humans after all aren't the organic manifestation to fight and kill. It is evident in all the organic realm. This alone is evidence of a "Fall".
Our origins, and our actual situation being apart from this material and organic.

Though it seems, there are few people who realize this.

ajay00
04-11-2014, 12:00 PM
Jesus embraced the Holy Spirit and became Jesus Christ. In the same way, -- or, rather, in his own way, -- Siddhartha embraced it, and became Siddhartha Christ; the Buddha. Christ is The Higher Self, and when you grow into your higher self, no matter what your first name may be, your last name (and the last name by which you will ever be known) will always be Christ; the Anointed.

Jesus may be your teacher, but Christ is within you. Regardless of who your teacher may be, or what spiritual tradition you may follow, the peak at which all souls arrive, and from which they regard the whole of Creation, is the same. Though our teachers may be men, and our paths may be man-made, the wisdom is from God, and it is God within us who comprehends it.

This is very well put. :smile:

eileen rose
23-11-2014, 06:53 AM
Very well said, Perry.

If anyone thinks a Buddhist can't be a Christian,
they haven't understood the teaching of Christ.

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another." ~ John 13:35

Amen to THAT! :D


Buddhists where I live teach that Christ was just another mystic.
They are quickly turning people into Satan's followers with their ideas/religious teachings, because it is a teaching that opens doorways into the dimensional reality where spirits (aka demons and the like) inhabit.

Yes, I realize ascended masters live in that realm as well. But they only ascend so far (from my viewpoint) and then get stuck. There is only one way out of this holographic projection we call reality, and it is a path laid out by the blood of the lamb. You really have to understand why we live in a matrix, to begin to relate to what I am saying. I know this.

On the other hand,
You can follow any course with Jesus as your guide post (foundation).

But it doesn't work the other way around (do anything you want and get away with it.....like take teachings that can turn you into a black mage), without corruption occurring.

People attempt to gain power/control over their environment, because it feels like one way, to get something, other's don't have. It is the egoic self at work.

It is not any way to be, and expect anything to work out for yourself (in this dimensional reality). Satan has got it all locked up (I've looked). Every path eventually ends up in his hands, except Jesus's way.

ajay00
23-11-2014, 11:35 AM
My sense was that an "Interfaith" forum would be a suitable place to try to illuminate the universals between various faiths. If I were to speak only of "Source", or whatever seems like a sufficiently neutral term, then the thread would not address the theme of the forum, as I see it.



I appreciate your intention, and wish you success. In these turbulent times, when some intolerant fanatics are unwisely ready to die for their faiths instead of living them, it is important that the common denominator of all the religions is emphasized and an atmosphere of peace,cooperation and empathy is created.

eileen rose
23-11-2014, 12:22 PM
re: "Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle" posted above.

My own research concludes that evil originated with the fall (descent) of man from the garden of Eden, due to consuming of the apple (satan's line/tree). It therefore would be that Satan is the originator of all evil Earth side, and not a typical human attribute.

ajay00
25-11-2014, 11:08 AM
re: "Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle" posted above.

My own research concludes that evil originated with the fall (descent) of man from the garden of Eden, due to consuming of the apple (satan's line/tree). It therefore would be that Satan is the originator of all evil Earth side, and not a typical human attribute.

I respect your research. :smile:

But why blame Satan for all evils and ills and attributing responsibility to him solely. That could amount to a lack of self-responsibility on our part, which is a satanic trait itself.

I would say that progress comes if we accept our shortcomings and deficiencies honestly and work on them, without putting the blame on others or other entities.

As the saying goes, " Excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure."

eileen rose
25-11-2014, 01:08 PM
Ajay just referring to Eckhart's quote, which was all encompassing (I mean it said all evil was originating from human unconsciousness). I say it isn't originating from man (current day) alone.

Morpheus
26-11-2014, 10:06 AM
Ego...

Evil

The, "Reptilian Brain".

http://img181.imagevenue.com/loc462/th_996383418_aBatter_122_462lo.jpg (http://img181.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=996383418_aBatter_122_462lo.jpg)

ajay00
26-11-2014, 12:29 PM
Ajay just referring to Eckhart's quote, which was all encompassing (I mean it said all evil was originating from human unconsciousness). I say it isn't originating from man (current day) alone.

And as I said, I respect your views.:smile:

Whether evil originates from Satan or from human beings, evil is evil, and the best antidote to it is mindfulness and love.

eileen rose
27-11-2014, 12:38 PM
And as I said, I respect your views.:smile:

Whether evil originates from Satan or from human beings, evil is evil, and the best antidote to it is mindfulness and love.


Hi Ajay,
This is a difficult topic to discuss, as I am pretty much alone in my views about evil/satan.

If I hadn't had a personal experience that verified the existence of both, I wouldn't bother to ever bring it up (it is upsetting, disquieting and so forth).

Plus in our modern world we are led to not believe in such things.

Mindfulness itself, seems to be an idea of buddhism (right? correct me if I am off here). Buddhist believe Jesus is a mystic (teacher etc.). That is no secret. In fact, until last year, when Jesus began communicating directly to me (and god as well), I just didn't really think about it.

It just seem alien, to my way of thinking (having gone down the road of enlightening myself).

Even when what I thought were aliens remote viewed me and scared the willies out of me, several years ago, I again, just thought of them as negative aliens....rather than realizing I had a direct communication from a fallen angel.

Just the way it goes sometimes.

What we are led to believe, by peers, TV viewing and so forth got it all wrong (backwards in fact).

We arn't living in a dual matrix (which is what is taught in spiritual circles....though it does appear that way, at first, in my view). Instead, there is an actual god of light (lucifer) and an architect's unseen hand (god/jesus/holy ghost trinity).

One is emitting a source of evil, and one of holiness/grace/good.

But you have to be an advanced master of enlightenment, to see this for yourself. Nothing I expect anyone anywhere to master (as buddhists are busy setting up their own version of nirvana...which won't get far, in my opinion....it will just be swept away...in the final hours of the (fallen ones) /gods/lucifers reign here).

Nothing I expect the luciferians here to agree with (though they seem to have extra priviledges on this forum....so this may be my last post. I get tired of being energically attacked by them). I guess this is one of their 'bases' of operation. Talking christians and spiritual minded folks to participate on a forum that openingly addresses witchcraft (which just begs satan to get involved...truly).

Amilius777
29-01-2015, 07:42 AM
I think your being a little too harsh on Buddhism

Everyone of all religions are looking for the same thing : bliss and happiness even if the person is doing it in the wrong ways


Do you know what those words bliss and happiness Pertain to ? The word is Blessedness. A lot of people don't know that.

And our Original Blessedness which comes from God even before we ventured into this world is that innate divine happiness and bliss we once had. Original sin on the other hand is trying finding happiness in the wrong places (Adam and eve had it all within but chose to go without) becoming attached to those things that only bring temporary happiness- whether it is addictive thinking, addictive substances, addictive pleasure, addictive behavior etc. That is what it means to be a sinner,- an addict, attachment. And the Buddhist and Catholics teach non attachment. That is why all those blessings in church and blessing by priests and blessings of prayer are mindful reminders of your own soul-joy within, and that ever new true happiness inside is what brings us closer to divine communion.

The Buddhists can be more Christian than actual Christians sometimes are

Morpheus
03-03-2016, 04:13 PM
I think your being a little too harsh on Buddhism

Everyone of all religions are looking for the same thing : bliss and happiness even if the person is doing it in the wrong ways


Do you know what those words bliss and happiness Pertain to ? The word is Blessedness. A lot of people don't know that.

And our Original Blessedness which comes from God even before we ventured into this world is that innate divine happiness and bliss we once had. Original sin on the other hand is trying finding happiness in the wrong places (Adam and eve had it all within but chose to go without) becoming attached to those things that only bring temporary happiness- whether it is addictive thinking, addictive substances, addictive pleasure, addictive behavior etc. That is what it means to be a sinner,- an addict, attachment. And the Buddhist and Catholics teach non attachment. That is why all those blessings in church and blessing by priests and blessings of prayer are mindful reminders of your own soul-joy within, and that ever new true happiness inside is what brings us closer to divine communion.

The Buddhists can be more Christian than actual Christians sometimes are

With thought, meditation, and study it becomes apparent that we are more and other than this evolved organic aspect, in ( illusory) time and space.

That, we are among the third of the rebellient angelic that is spoken of in the Bible, which is why "redemption" is necessary, and for Whom Jesus came, concerning the, "lost".