After Enlightenment

[Shabby]

Before enlightenment - chop wood, after enlightenment - chop wood.

I thought that after realizing my real Self, I would ascend or dissolve back into the nothingness where I came from, but instead, I found myself still being in the world.

I had dedicated a small eternity of my life to the quest of seeking realization and wa a stay at home Mom and was now faced with the question: What now? What do people do after enlightenment?

When you realize your true self...you come to see and understand that no one "needs" you and that their is no purpose other then the one you give yourself.
There is a certain detachment to what is happening in your life and nothing really matters any more. Not, because you no longer care, but because you see things from a larger perspective. It's like looking through God's eyes to children make believing and playing different roles. Looking from this bigger picture everything is in perfect order and as it should be.

Everyone is enlightened even if they have not realized it for themselves yet.

A friend asked, so what now Vivian? If nothing matters, what are we to do?
I told her to have fun.

Life after enlightenment is now fun. If I read a book, it's no longer because I am seeking, I can do it or leave it. It's the same.

I can create what ever I would like to experience or simply be the witness to that which has already been created.

I have become more compassionate, not just with a victim but also with the victimizer. It still saddens me to see violence or harm done, but my heart goes out to all that are involved.

After enlightenment and being at home for a long time, I actually went back to work. I wanted to experience a regular paycheck coming in.

The nice thing is that now there is no judgement on anything I would like to experience. I feel free to do what ever my heart desires.

Talking with a co worker a few days ago, he was telling me that he is preparing himself for the after life and I recall thinking like that too before enlightenment, but now...I don't care what happens after this life.If I stand in front of God on judgement day, it will be without any regrets.

I am living life to it's fullest. I feel blessed and share my blessings from a full cup....simply because I can : )

[Ivy]

Seeking is 'being human having a spiritual experience'

Realising is 'being spirit having a human experience'

The second phrase is common amongst seekers, but at the same time I am often told by seekers to let go of all the humaneness I speak about. There is a beautiful irony to the journey :)

[KevinO]

Before enlightenment - chop wood, after enlightenment - chop wood.

I thought that after realizing my real Self, I would ascend or dissolve back into the nothingness where I came from, but instead, I found myself still being in the world.

I had dedicated a small eternity of my life to the quest of seeking realization and wa a stay at home Mom and was now faced with the question: What now? What do people do after enlightenment?

When you realize your true self...you come to see and understand that no one "needs" you and that their is no purpose other then the one you give yourself.
There is a certain detachment to what is happening in your life and nothing really matters any more. Not, because you no longer care, but because you see things from a larger perspective. It's like looking through God's eyes to children make believing and playing different roles. Looking from this bigger picture everything is in perfect order and as it should be.

Everyone is enlightened even if they have not realized it for themselves yet.

A friend asked, so what now Vivian? If nothing matters, what are we to do?
I told her to have fun.

Life after enlightenment is now fun. If I read a book, it's no longer because I am seeking, I can do it or leave it. It's the same.

I can create what ever I would like to experience or simply be the witness to that which has already been created.

I have become more compassionate, not just with a victim but also with the victimizer. It still saddens me to see violence or harm done, but my heart goes out to all that are involved.

After enlightenment and being at home for a long time, I actually went back to work. I wanted to experience a regular paycheck coming in.

The nice thing is that now there is no judgement on anything I would like to experience. I feel free to do what ever my heart desires.

Talking with a co worker a few days ago, he was telling me that he is preparing himself for the after life and I recall thinking like that too before enlightenment, but now...I don't care what happens after this life.If I stand in front of God on judgement day, it will be without any regrets.

I am living life to it's fullest. I feel blessed and share my blessings from a full cup....simply because I can : )

A wonderful statement of the genre.

We are all living life to it's fullest We may not always realize it.

Have fun!

[silent whisper]

Before enlightenment - chop wood, after enlightenment - chop wood.

I thought that after realizing my real Self, I would ascend or dissolve back into the nothingness where I came from, but instead, I found myself still being in the world.

I had dedicated a small eternity of my life to the quest of seeking realization and wa a stay at home Mom and was now faced with the question: What now? What do people do after enlightenment?

When you realize your true self...you come to see and understand that no one "needs" you and that their is no purpose other then the one you give yourself.
There is a certain detachment to what is happening in your life and nothing really matters any more. Not, because you no longer care, but because you see things from a larger perspective. It's like looking through God's eyes to children make believing and playing different roles. Looking from this bigger picture everything is in perfect order and as it should be.

Everyone is enlightened even if they have not realized it for themselves yet.

A friend asked, so what now Vivian? If nothing matters, what are we to do?
I told her to have fun.

Life after enlightenment is now fun. If I read a book, it's no longer because I am seeking, I can do it or leave it. It's the same.

I can create what ever I would like to experience or simply be the witness to that which has already been created.

I have become more compassionate, not just with a victim but also with the victimizer. It still saddens me to see violence or harm done, but my heart goes out to all that are involved.

After enlightenment and being at home for a long time, I actually went back to work. I wanted to experience a regular paycheck coming in.

The nice thing is that now there is no judgement on anything I would like to experience. I feel free to do what ever my heart desires.

Talking with a co worker a few days ago, he was telling me that he is preparing himself for the after life and I recall thinking like that too before enlightenment, but now...I don't care what happens after this life.If I stand in front of God on judgement day, it will be without any regrets.

I am living life to it's fullest. I feel blessed and share my blessings from a full cup....simply because I can : )


Nice post shabby.:angel8:

[A human Being]

I've been kind of assuming that purpose and meaning, and all that, will become clear after you've realised your true nature. Almost like the questions of 'why am I here? What is my purpose? What is the meaning of life?' won't even arise; only the answers will arise. So it's fair to say that isn't true in your experience?

Talking with a co worker a few days ago, he was telling me that he is preparing himself for the after life and I recall thinking like that too before enlightenment, but now...I don't care what happens after this life.If I stand in front of God on judgement day, it will be without any regrets.
Isn't it a fallacy to talk about what comes after this life? Isn't life all there is? Or do you mean after this incarnation?

[luntrusreality]

I've been kind of assuming that purpose and meaning, and all that, will become clear after you've realised your true nature. Almost like the questions of 'why am I here? What is my purpose? What is the meaning of life?' won't even arise; only the answers will arise. So it's fair to say that isn't true in your experience?



The question for meaning and purpose only relates to a sense of separation ('the individual')
When there is only One reality where would be the meaning ?
Somewhere outside or inside of it ?
Purpose implies there is somewhere to go or something to achieve.
But nothing can ever be gained and everything has 'always' (infinitely not in time) been as it is now.

So neither the question nor the answer for the meaning of life really apply.

Luntrus

[silent whisper]

The question for meaning and purpose only relates to a sense of separation ('the individual')
When there is only One reality where would be the meaning ?
Somewhere outside or inside of it ?
Purpose implies there is somewhere to go or something to achieve.
But nothing can ever be gained and everything has 'always' (infinitely not in time) been as it is now.

So neither the question nor the answer for the meaning of life really apply.

Luntrus

It just is- *LIFE*...:fish:

[luntrusreality]

It just is- *LIFE*...:fish:

Sometimes even appearing as a fish :P

[silent whisper]

Sometimes even appearing as a fish :P

Fish are very spiritual you know!!:fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:

[charly233]

It seems to me that after enlightenment there is even more enlightenment. Maybe there are an infinite number of stages of to enlightenment. For me enlightenment is fun, passion and juiciness in living.

[luntrusreality]

It seems to me that after enlightenment there is even more enlightenment. Maybe there are an infinite number of stages of to enlightenment. For me enlightenment is fun, passion and juiciness in living.

If we want to define it one could say there are many different forms of awakenings and realizations that one has on their journey.

But enlightenment how it is usually used as a description is the final dissolution of the Ego/Sense of Self - what is left is just the one awareness/life/"truth"/God.
This can't have different stages - what is real is real without any development of the "grade of reality".

Luntrus

[BlueSky]

If we want to define it one could say there are many different forms of awakenings and realizations that one has on their journey.

But enlightenment how it is usually used as a description is the final dissolution of the Ego/Sense of Self - what is left is just the one awareness/life/"truth"/God.
This can't have different stages - what is real is real without any development.

Luntrus
I would not say that there is a dissolution of such. I would say it's more like the ego/sense of self takes it's rightful place or seat.

[luntrusreality]

I would not say that there is a dissolution of such. I would say it's more like the ego/sense of self takes it's rightful place or seat.


But the Ego IS the believe to be a separate person. There is not a real person that HAS an Ego that can dissolve.
It is one and the same.
So if this is seen to be an illusion there is no more ego and never was.
You are right that there is no "dissolution" because there is nothing there to be dissolved, but it is the best description of this timeless moment of recognition.

[Miss Hepburn]

WELL! Another fascinating thread...thank you, Shabby!!!

Now...may I share ...maybe even, it is the next step?
It is for me!
(Had this book for 4 years! Before opening it 'now'.)....

Some fascinating things about further understandings...
now that you and I are ready, sounds like :thumbsup:..
"The Disappearance of the Universe", by Gary Renard.

It reveals what exactly one must 'get'...to progress to, say,
where the Ascended Masters are...to what Jesus knew.

You and I are perfectly happy now...ok...next step...!! Haha!

Personally, I was taking it easy now that I understood how
things worked 'here'...easy street for me, now...ok...now
I'm ready to move even further into Knowledge.


And , Luntrus, do not think for a minute your new avatar was not noticed...:thumbsup:

[luntrusreality]

And , Luntrus, do not think for a minute your new avatar was not noticed...:thumbsup:

Hahaha, awesome ! :wink:

[BlueSky]

But the Ego IS the believe to be a separate person. There is not a real person that HAS an Ego that can dissolve.
It is one and the same.
So if this is seen to be an illusion there is no more ego and never was.
You are right that there is no "dissolution" because there is nothing there to be dissolved, but it is the best description of this timeless moment of recognition.
There is a seperation between you and I. Equally so there is a connection. Oneness requires one to be one with so it in itself is misunderstood. The sense of self claiming to be independent from the whole is the one claiming oneness. The whole self recognizes all aspects.

[Shabby]

What I have noticed "after enlightenment" That I still had habits and old beliefs lingering which are dissolving as I become aware of them. So, if some refer that as "levels' ....so it be. To me there are no degrees. You either have or you have not. It's either black or white. You are either in or out : )

[KevinO]

There is a seperation between you and I. Equally so there is a connection. Oneness requires one to be one with so it in itself is misunderstood. The sense of self claiming to be independent from the whole is the one claiming oneness. The whole self recognizes all aspects.

And with that, the mystery grinds to a halt.

[luntrusreality]

There is a seperation between you and I. Equally so there is a connection. Oneness requires one to be one with so it in itself is misunderstood. The sense of self claiming to be independent from the whole is the one claiming oneness. The whole self recognizes all aspects.

The "connection" between us is that the awareness with which "your" and "my" experience is known is the same and only awareness there is.
Only because "my mind" and "your mind" are not one and the same mind with exactly the same experiences, memories, sense perception etc. doesn't mean that the awareness which knows the mind is separate.

One Awareness - multiple minds (which temselves have no reality outside the One Awareness which is therefore all there TRULY is)

So when you say there is a separation AND a connection between us, I would not agree.
The separation is illusionary and only between minds.
The connection is also illusionary because it would imply there are two things that are connected.

[luntrusreality]

What I have noticed "after enlightenment" That I still had habits and old beliefs lingering which are dissolving as I become aware of them. So, if some refer that as "levels' ....so it be. To me there are no degrees. You either have or you have not. It's either black or white. You are either in or out : )

This is true.

The "old habits" dissolve more and more, this is a process that is ongoing but it has no importance anymore and happens on its own.
"Before enlightenment" one is always realizing new stages and steps of deepening awareness etc.
When it is realized that awareness is neither deep nor not deep and ever present no matter what all these things like "living in the now" or "dissolving old habits" completely lose their weight so to speak.

"You either have or you have not."

I would say everybody not only HAS it but IS it.
Just what can happen is that there are minds that seem to express this knowledge and others create a sense of a separate individual.
So no separate person can ever HAVE this experience, because it is the end of the separate person.

[Shabby]

The connection between us is that the awareness which with "your" and "my" experience is known is the same and only awareness there is.
Only because "my mind" and "your mind" are not one and the same mind with exactly the same experience doesn't mean that the awareness which knows the mind is separate.

Yes, very true. The belief in a separation creates the appearance of "others". In my awareness there is no God, or you, or me. We are one and the same.

[charly233]

If we want to define it one could say there are many different forms of awakenings and realizations that one has on their journey.

But enlightenment how it is usually used as a description is the final dissolution of the Ego/Sense of Self - what is left is just the one awareness/life/"truth"/God.
This can't have different stages - what is real is real without any development of the "grade of reality".

Luntrus

Yes what you say is perfectly true too!

[Ivy]

So sorry - I just wrote a whole new thread here instead of in a new thread.

[Shabby]

No worries...it is all in divine order : )

[Ivy]

The thread is in it's own place now :redface: thank gawd for copy and paste lol.

[KevinO]

duplicate.................

[Ivy]

Sorry kevin, I wrote as a new thread and didn't realise I was on this thread, so I have moved it as was originally intended. But your words add so much to the discussion, so perhaps it would be best to move them to the freedom to speak thread.

[BlueSky]

The "connection" between us is that the awareness with which "your" and "my" experience is known is the same and only awareness there is.
Only because "my mind" and "your mind" are not one and the same mind with exactly the same experiences, memories, sense perception etc. doesn't mean that the awareness which knows the mind is separate.

One Awareness - multiple minds (which temselves have no reality outside the One Awareness which is therefore all there TRULY is)

So when you say there is a separation AND a connection between us, I would not agree.
The separation is illusionary and only between minds.
The connection is also illusionary because it would imply there are two things that are connected.
Is the mind an illusion? We are seperate and interdependent just like the Yin Yang symbol. Awareness is of the relationship between opposing energies. Since we are interdependent, then yes seperate doesn't quite fit but neither does oneness all by itself. It's about wholeness

[luntrusreality]

Is the mind an illusion? We are seperate and interdependent just like the Yin Yang symbol. Awareness is of the relationship between opposing energies. Since we are interdependent, then yes seperate doesn't quite fit but neither does oneness all by itself. It's about wholeness

The mind is thoughts - they are not an illusion - they are what they are appearing in awareness.
But when a thought implies something other than awarenss - like independence from the whole - then it becomes an illusion.
This is why there is no separation, only the illusion of separation.

[BlueSky]

Yes, very true. The belief in a separation creates the appearance of "others". In my awareness there is no God, or you, or me. We are one and the same.
You cannot claim to be seperate and that is what the ego gone amuck is doing, but equally so, you cannot claim to be one, as this is the same ego. Who is this one and what is he one with?
You can claim to be whole.

[luntrusreality]

You cannot claim to be seperate and that us what the ego gone amuck is doing, but equally so, you cannot claim to be one as this is the same ego.
You can claim to be whole.

But there is only one life which is equally one and whole.
There is no indepence inside this life, nothing which has a reality outside of the one life. (which we are)

[BlueSky]

The mind is thoughts - they are not an illusion - they are what they are appearing in awareness.
But when a thought implies something other than awarenss - like independence from the whole - then it becomes an illusion.
This is why there is no separation, only the illusion of separation.
But it's not claiming independence, it's claiming interdependence.

[BlueSky]

But there is only one life which is equally one and whole.
There is no indepence inside this life, nothing which has a reality outside of the one life. (which we are)
Agree and yet within this one life there is interdependence between energies. Is the wave an illusion? Does it not have it's own qualities even though it comes from the same ocean as the next wave?
We are each unique and our uniqueness comes from the other wave.

[luntrusreality]

Agree and yet within this one life there is interdependence between energies. Is the wave an illusion? Does it not have it's own qualities even though it comes from the same ocean as the next wave?
We are each unique and our uniqueness comes from the other wave.

It depends whether one believes oneself to be this energetic wave or the whole of all.
So I agree that appearances in this one life are separate. obviously there are more than one human being on the planet etc.
But this is just a modulation of the ONE awareness.
Life if I build something out of clay - it is always clay. If I choose to build something else the objects before disappear into the clay.
There is always only clay that appears as separate energies.
It can happen that some parts of the modulated clay start to believe in an individual and separate existence from the clay itself.

Luntrus

[TheImmortal]

Before enlightenment - chop wood, after enlightenment - chop wood.

I thought that after realizing my real Self, I would ascend or dissolve back into the nothingness where I came from, but instead, I found myself still being in the world.

I had dedicated a small eternity of my life to the quest of seeking realization and wa a stay at home Mom and was now faced with the question: What now? What do people do after enlightenment?

When you realize your true self...you come to see and understand that no one "needs" you and that their is no purpose other then the one you give yourself.
There is a certain detachment to what is happening in your life and nothing really matters any more. Not, because you no longer care, but because you see things from a larger perspective. It's like looking through God's eyes to children make believing and playing different roles. Looking from this bigger picture everything is in perfect order and as it should be.

Everyone is enlightened even if they have not realized it for themselves yet.

A friend asked, so what now Vivian? If nothing matters, what are we to do?
I told her to have fun.

Life after enlightenment is now fun. If I read a book, it's no longer because I am seeking, I can do it or leave it. It's the same.

I can create what ever I would like to experience or simply be the witness to that which has already been created.

I have become more compassionate, not just with a victim but also with the victimizer. It still saddens me to see violence or harm done, but my heart goes out to all that are involved.

After enlightenment and being at home for a long time, I actually went back to work. I wanted to experience a regular paycheck coming in.

The nice thing is that now there is no judgement on anything I would like to experience. I feel free to do what ever my heart desires.

Talking with a co worker a few days ago, he was telling me that he is preparing himself for the after life and I recall thinking like that too before enlightenment, but now...I don't care what happens after this life.If I stand in front of God on judgement day, it will be without any regrets.

I am living life to it's fullest. I feel blessed and share my blessings from a full cup....simply because I can : )

This is an excellent post and well worth repeating in its entirety.

There is a classic Zen story in which the question is raised as to what one does after so-called enlightenment. It is said that, at that point (not an end-point), one develops the last two of the Zen Wisdoms:

- The Marvelous Observing Wisdom
- The Perfecting of Action Wisdom

Moved by pure love of the Self, compassion, and loving kindness, one thus acts purely in the best interests of the Totality with no expectation of a return.

Swami Vivekinanda indicated that the so-called enlightened one can treat the whole worldly appearance as a giant playground and participate freely in whatever way one chooses in the Greatest Show IMAGINABLE. This view seems to be more in keeping with the direction of this particular thread.

Another Zen master is reported to have said that he had a number of enlightening experiences in his lifetime.

I just wanted to introduce related views to this thread.

[BlueSky]

It depends whether one believes oneself to be this energetic wave or the whole of all.
So I agree that appearances in this one life are separate. obviously there are more than one human being on the planet etc.
But this is just a modulation of the ONE awareness.
Life if I build something out of clay - it is always clay. If I choose to build something else the objects before disappear into the clay.
There is always only clay that appears as separate energies.
It can happen that some parts of the modulated clay start to believe in an individual and separate existence from the clay itself.

Luntrus
Why say that it is "just" a modulation...?
It is the only awareness we know. It is a modulation of something that all we can claim to is that it is so. It's only coming into being is this. Is us. We should celebrate it and speak of it highly.

[KevinO]

This is an excellent post and well worth repeating in its entirety.

There is a classic Zen story in which the question is raised as to what one does after so-called enlightenment. It is said that, at that point (not an end-point), one develops the last two of the Zen Wisdoms:

- The Marvelous Observing Wisdom
- The Perfecting of Action Wisdom

Moved by pure love of the Self, compassion, and loving kindness, one thus acts purely in the best interests of the Totality with no expectation of a return.

Swami Vivekinanda indicated that the so-called enlightened one can treat the whole worldly appearance as a giant playground and participate freely in whatever way one chooses in the Greatest Show IMAGINABLE. This view seems to be more in keeping with the direction of this particular thread.

Another Zen master is reported to have said that he had a number of enlightening experiences in his lifetime.

I just wanted to introduce related views to this thread.

Imagine a place where you have the freedom to go anywhere in time and space by simply being there, where you can take any viewpoint, be any person, place or thing, experience anything, create anything, and participate in the creations of a trillion trillion who are also experiencing and creating and making whoopee, non-stop, on any imaginable level.

You're there.

[luntrusreality]

Why say that it is "just" a modulation...?
It is the only awareness we know. It is a modulation of something that all we can claim to is that it is so. It's only coming into being is this. Is us. We should celebrate it and speak of it highly.


The only awareness we know is also the only awareness there is.
What I mean by "just a modulation" of this awareness is for example:

If we see a table - we don't really see a table but just an appearance in awareness. Not even IN awareness but made out of awareness.
So what the mind sees as a table is just a modulation of this one awareness.
We can of course celebrate the table as a separate object (which is an illusion), but I would rather celebrate awareness by being it.

I don't see the need to speak "highly" of a table ;) I say it is "just a table" instead of it is the "almighty table" (as an object ! ) ; )

The thought/feeling to be a separate person is exactly the same as seeing the table as separate in this analogy.

Luntrus

[BlueSky]

The only awareness we know is also the only awareness there is.
What I mean by "just a modulation" of this awareness is for example:

If we see a table - we don't really see a table but just an appearance in awareness. Not even IN awareness but made out of awareness.
So what the mind sees as a table is just a modulation of this one awareness.
We can of course celebrate the table as a separate object (which is an illusion), but I would rather celebrate awareness by being it.

I don't see the need to speak "highly" of a table ;) I say it is "just a table" instead of it is the "almighty table" (as an object ! ) ; )

The thought/feeling to be a separate person is exactly the same as seeing the table as separate in this analogy.

Luntrus
To that I would say awareness of the table is because there is a you and a table.
The you and the table rise from emptiness as if it breathes it in and out. We come from emptiness not awareness. Awareness comes from emptiness. You seem to feel that we are awareness, and I can relate to that, I just don't think it so.
It's all good but it changes how we see the world, these views we hold onto. I know that I am aware but I also know that this awareness is in relation to something else. The in breath to the out breath is how I see it. Even emptiness operates on this principle, as the saying goes, emptiness is form and form is emptiness.
What we are is a two sided coin. To not speak highly if one side if the coin or the other makes no sense to me

[luntrusreality]

know that I am aware but I also know that this awareness is in relation to something else. The in breath to the out breath is how I see it.

But this knowing of being aware - is awareness without an object.
You are not aware of awareness as separate from the awareness with which awareness is aware of awareness (...) : P

You are aware OF the table.
Of a thought, of an emotion, of a body.
But you are aware of being aware just because you are this self-knowing awareness.

Table <- Awareness (awareness seems to know a separate object which is not really separate)
But:
Awareness <-> Awareness (the knowing that we are aware)
Here language can not go any further because by talking about this self-knowing awareness it always sounds like there is an "I" that is aware. These 2 things: I and aware are one.

What you call emptiness IS what we are.
Emptiness not in the sense of nothingness (nothing could ever rise out of nothingness or it would be somethingness) but in the sense of the aware space = consciousness = awareness.

[TheImmortal]

Imagine a place where you have the freedom to go anywhere in time and space by simply being there, where you can take any viewpoint, be any person, place or thing, experience anything, create anything, and participate in the creations of a trillion trillion who are also experiencing and creating and making whoopee, non-stop, on any imaginable level.

You're there.

Are you there NOW ? :smile:

[KevinO]

But this knowing of being aware - is awareness without an object.
You are not aware of awareness as separate from the awareness with which awareness is aware of awareness (...) : P

You are aware OF the table.
Of a thought, of an emotion, of a body.
But you are aware of being aware just because you are this self-knowing awareness.

Table <- Awareness (awareness seems to know a separate object which is not really separate)
But:
Awareness <-> Awareness (the knowing that we are aware)
Here language can not go any further because by talking about this self-knowing awareness it always sounds like there is an "I" that is aware. These 2 things: I and aware are one.

What you call emptiness IS what we are.
Emptiness not in the sense of nothingness (nothing could ever rise out of nothingness or it would be somethingness) but in the sense of the aware space = consciousness = awareness.

I"m afraid as structure what you posit is not possible, at least not to me. What is, is. That is primary. Secondary is perception and third is consciousness, from which springs awareness.
God is aware of everything in this place, constantly, instantly, but God is not awareness. God is a personage, like thee and me.
My opinion.

[BlueSky]

But this knowing of being aware - is awareness without an object.
You are not aware of awareness as separate from the awareness with which awareness is aware of awareness (...) : P

You are aware OF the table.
Of a thought, of an emotion, of a body.
But you are aware of being aware just because you are this self-knowing awareness.

Table <- Awareness (awareness seems to know a separate object which is not really separate)
But:
Awareness <-> Awareness (the knowing that we are aware)
Here language can not go any further because by talking about this self-knowing awareness it always sounds like there is an "I" that is aware. These 2 things: I and aware are one.

What you call emptiness IS what we are.
Emptiness not in the sense of nothingness (nothing could ever rise out of nothingness or it would be somethingness) but in the sense of the aware space = consciousness = awareness.
Emptiness is form
Form is emptiness

[KevinO]

Are you there NOW ? :smile:

What do you think?

[luntrusreality]

Emptiness is form
Form is emptiness

Emptiness is not dependent on form but form is dependent on emptiness.
Pure awareness (emptiness) is always prior to all manifestation. It is the only constant.
Therefore awareness is awareness even without a universe.

[Shabby]

You cannot claim to be seperate and that is what the ego gone amuck is doing, but equally so, you cannot claim to be one, as this is the same ego. Who is this one and what is he one with?
You can claim to be whole.

I can actually claim to be anything I want to, but for the sake of your peace.... I am whole : )

[BlueSky]

Emptiness is not dependent on form but form is dependent on emptiness.
Pure awareness (emptiness) is always prior to all manifestation. It is the only constant.
Therefore awareness is awareness even without a universe.
This belief creates a God out of emptiness. Aware, creating and prior to.
IMO it's a nice thought but it seems more like another identity and we love identities.
You say emptiness is aware. I had also at one time. What makes you say that?

[BlueSky]

I can actually claim to be anything I want to, but for the sake of your peace.... I am whole : )
Lol poor choice of words on my part.

[luntrusreality]

This belief creates a God out of emptiness. Aware, creating and prior to.
IMO it's a nice thought but it seems more like another identity and we love identities.
You say emptiness is aware. I had also at one time. What makes you say that?

Yes, God is this awareness.

It is not an identity. There is no person that can have awareness as an "identity".

This emptiness is not only aware , it IS this awareness. Not 2 but 1.

What makes me say that?
I don't know , nothing makes me say that.
There is no "me" who is doing anything as a separate entity.
But to give an answer you could say: consciousness/awareness/god makes "me" say that. The mind and body formulating and typing these words are just happening "in" awareness.
Not OWNING this awareness as a person.

[BlueSky]

Yes, God is this awareness.

It is not an identity. There is no person that can have awareness as an "identity".

This emptiness is not only aware , it IS this awareness. Not 2 but 1.

What makes me say that?
I don't know , nothing makes me say that.
There is no "me" who is doing anything as a separate entity.
But to give an answer you could say: consciousness/awareness/god makes "me" say that. The mind and body formulating and typing these words are just happening "in" awareness.
Not OWNING this awareness as a person.
I appreciate the dialog. The nature of it restored my faith in forums a little more.
Peace to you

[luntrusreality]

I appreciate the dialog. The nature of it restored my faith in forums a little more.
Peace to you

Yes I enjoyed it, too ; ) Have a good evening (or in whichever timezone you are )