Where does one begin?

[Philip Bradley]

from where does one begin? with what quality does one begin their spirtitual search? one gets a brief glimpse of something more, and then says that they must achieve it, that that glimpse must be a constant state. without even understanding the glimpse itself, we begin by building up this enormous concept, or belief system. Why do we build our foundation on the supposed? on what we suppose must be so?

from where does one begin? not from some goal, which is what our first inclination is. we say, "i must achieve enlightenment," or some other supposedly pure and blissful state. we then go on and on, for years searching, hoping, wanting, wanting not to desire ect... yet do we even realize where it was we begun? we started with the want to achieve, and hope to end at the achievement. yet all the time we continue to go with this want, act from this want, and view our whole existence from this want.

so i ask you, with what quality does one begin their spiritual search? how does one go into something so incredibally immense, without seeking a goal? how does one begin to make sense of all this confusion?

[Resonance]

Dear Philip

My change from being a typical secular, agnostic materialist, came through a few personal experiences that made it clear to me that there is much more to our world and experience than what we can explain with science. This understanding came gradually through my studies and friends, and it piqued my curiosity and just opened me up for experiences and happenings that are discarded by the sciences for whatever reason. The personal experiences gave me the last push I needed to start seeking myself.

I totally understand what you mean when you point out the vastness of what the spiritual contains and how one can start to make sense of it. I've never sought a "goal" as such in my learning, but I'm driven, like most people by curiosity and hunger for knowing. I'm not going anywhere in particular, but my spiritual understanding of the world compliments my life and brings greater understanding and insight. I try very hard not to decide my beliefs or choose a specific direction, and rather try to stay open to all explanations and experiences people have. This has made me realise that we all experience the world differently and this is the case for the spiritual dimensions. So I'm not too put off by two contradictory experiences both being "true" (even though i don't like that word), as they're true to those people under their current circumstances. Of course I have my own ideas that I feel explain best both my own and other's experiences, but I've had quite a few experiences that don't fit my framework, which is really interesting and has taught me not to cling to what I decide to believe :icon_cyclops:

I'm truly thankful to those people I've met or who written books that have inspired me. I was lucky enough to be introduced to meditation early on, and that s the most important tool for spiritual growth as it can teach you how to change yourself and transform you mind and, in consequence, your material world. The rest is just information that help us understand, that possibly explains what we experience, and that can motivate us to go further if that's what it takes for that to happen (like with me).

Spirituality to me, is about being present and conscious, and that takes place in the momment. I have no goal and no interest in Nirvana. That is just a theoretical concept for a state we have extremely limited information about and, I presume, is impossible to understand at our current evolutionary level. But who knows, if Nirvana is what it takes to find inspiration for meditation and growth, then it serves its purpose :icon_cyclops:

Did this make any sense to you at all? :)

With much love
Resonance

[Philip Bradley]

Those personal experiences which gave you the last punch you needed, is you. Being an experience it is already of the past, and not a part of the present moment. You cant “know” spirituality in the sense of knowledge, because spirituality is of itself alive, not something which can be defined, because in defining something, in saying that something is [blank], we already make it a dead thing, no longer what is, but what was.
“I’ve never sought a ‘goal’ as such in my learning, but I’m driven, like most people by curiosity and hunger for knowing.” Then knowing is your goal. Wanting, being driven in itself is already causing a division between you, and the fact of what is. If you decide your belief, then it is not belief.
I wonder… if we really were open to other’s experiences, accounts… I wonder if we really would come to the conclusion that everyone sees the world differently. I apologize in advance for how I might seem to come across. I’m awful at seeing the different ways in which people might view what I say.
But if you’re willing, I’d love to go into this together with you, to have a true conversation where we work together, pointing out things which strike us as being ‘odd’, and see what comes of it.

[Xan]

Phillip... I always suggest keeping it simple because that's what works best in Self discovery.

Meditation practice takes us much further than mental / spiritual discussions.


Xan

[Resonance]

Those personal experiences which gave you the last punch you needed, is you. Being an experience it is already of the past, and not a part of the present moment. You cant “know” spirituality in the sense of knowledge, because spirituality is of itself alive, not something which can be defined, because in defining something, in saying that something is [blank], we already make it a dead thing, no longer what is, but what was.
“I’ve never sought a ‘goal’ as such in my learning, but I’m driven, like most people by curiosity and hunger for knowing.” Then knowing is your goal. Wanting, being driven in itself is already causing a division between you, and the fact of what is. If you decide your belief, then it is not belief.
I wonder… if we really were open to other’s experiences, accounts… I wonder if we really would come to the conclusion that everyone sees the world differently. I apologize in advance for how I might seem to come across. I’m awful at seeing the different ways in which people might view what I say.
But if you’re willing, I’d love to go into this together with you, to have a true conversation where we work together, pointing out things which strike us as being ‘odd’, and see what comes of it.

Dear Philip

I guess my reply was a good example of how we interpret other's thoughts and actions in our own way. I thought you were looking for inspiration and thought I'd share my thoughts on my own experience in case you would find something valuable in it. What you're writing is a challenge to my ideas, and even though I see this as a valuable path for learning, it quickly leads to meaningless arguments on this forum. The thing is that I see the same weakness in your arguments that you see in mine, and it's not because we disagree I think. It's just semantics and details and ultimately a result seeing the words through a different lense of experience. But then again, that's just my perspective :icon_cyclops:

With much love
Resonance

[Philip Bradley]

it doesn't have to be meaningless. discussion is an argument when we compare what people say to our own experiences. there is the fact that we're able to look beyond the words and reach the same quality of "what is". I really do appologize if i've offended in you in any way. that was not my intention. I just want to open up a forum for sharing. for understanding.

[Hand]

There was a great writer named Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, who wrote numerous small books.
His thoughts were and are inspiring.
There is a catalog of his writings available.
Internacional Biogenic Society,
P.O. Box 849,
Nelson, B.C.
Canada V1l 6A5

I hope someone else finds him inspiring.

[TheDivine]

Phillip,

I understand your question, but I am not sure if there is a single answer. There is no formula to enlightenment. If you study history and look at some of the most seemingly enlightened figures, they have very diverse backgrounds and come from many different walks of life.

I would say though that simply having those questions in your heart while having an earnest openness to receive the answers is an excellent starting point. I know that, for myself, I have always had spiritual feelings inside even though I was not able to verbalize what they meant or try to translate them to others. By nurturing those feelings and not trying to dismiss them or shut them down, you remain open to various life experiences that will surely come your way in order to provide insights.

There have been a lot of different things that have happened to me in my life that have taught me some crazy lessons. Sometimes it is very direct... like, someone who is clearly spiritual and wise appears in front of me and starts telling me stuff. On the other hand, the lessons can sometimes be completely non-obvious, or even seemingly counter-intuitive; for most people, these lessons tend to come in the form of pain and suffering, or extreme challenges.

In any case, I would say that from the sum of all of my experiences combined with trying to maintain an open heart, something has begun to precipitate out in the past few years that is indescribable. I can say that I am far more rooted in my spiritual path now than I have ever been, and it's because of the sum of everything I have been through in my life.

Ask the questions, remain open to answers (this is often the hardest part for people, not the questions themselves), and then allow yourself to grow into the answers instead of expecting to receive them all at once. Too often people pray for cataclysmic change or insight, when often change comes very, very gradually until one day we just realize that something is different.

Whenever you ask a question or make a request that comes from the heart, the answer is already on its way in some form. Trust me on this one. The only thing that determines whether or not you see the answer is your openness to receiving it. If you ask the question while simultaneously feeling that it is impossible to know, then you will not see the answer even if it's right in front of your face.

[Miss Hepburn]

from where does one begin? with what quality does one begin their spirtitual search? one gets a brief glimpse of something more, and then says that they or you?must achieve it, that that glimpse must be a constant state. without even understanding the glimpse itself, we? or you begin by building up this enormous concept, or belief system. Why do we? or you build our foundation on the supposed? on what we? or you suppose must be so?

from where does one begin? not from some goal, which is what our first inclination is. we? or you say, "i must achieve enlightenment," or some other supposedly pure and blissful state. we? or you then go on and on, for years searching, hoping, wanting, wanting not to desire ect... yet do we even realize where it was we began? we started with the want to achieve, and hope to end at the achievement. yet all the time we continue to go with this want, act from this want, and view our whole existence from this want.

so i ask you, with what quality does one begin their spiritual search? how does one go into something so incredibally immense, without seeking a goal? how does one begin to make sense of all this confusion?

Ah, the thirst.
The thirst is sweet.
The thirst is necessary.

I want peace.
Iwant love.

Who has that Love.
Who has that Peace.

I begin with humility.
I ask.
I humbly believe there is Something that answers.

I wait.
I still myself so I can be filled.
I have no expectaions and yet I do.
Ah, the sweet paradox.

I thirst until that thirst is quenched.
I am still until I am filled.

I study about this peace.
I learn about this peace.
I sit with others that have this peace.
I research this peace
I think about this peace.

I prepare my mind for this peace
I prepare my heart for this peace.

And I ask, I wait.
I thirst, I long, I suffer.

I thirst until that thirst is quenched.
I am still until I am filled.

Until, when He pleases, He comes.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Thank you, that was good for me.

:')

Oh those typos, ha!

[Samana]

My spiritual search began with a need for something more than the mundane aspects of life. I then began investigating Buddhism, reading books, then going to centres to listen to teachings and get offline instruction from wise teachers -and then meditating and doing my best to practising the teachings. It's brought me a lot of mental peace and happiness.


_/\_

[Resonance]

it doesn't have to be meaningless. discussion is an argument when we compare what people say to our own experiences. there is the fact that we're able to look beyond the words and reach the same quality of "what is". I really do appologize if i've offended in you in any way. that was not my intention. I just want to open up a forum for sharing. for understanding.

Dear Phillip

No offence taken :icon_cyclops: I just misunderstood your post and I see my wording could have been less defensive. Sorry about that.

Reading your post again, I completely agree that the goal often defeats the purpose and lots of people find no "solution" as it becomes a new frustration of not reaching it. At the same time, that frustration used correctly, like all other "mistakes" in life, is a huge possibility of learning from that.

To me, all paths ultimately lead to the same goal, but I suppose a lot of people need to go through that process. After all, be it in spirituality or politics or whatever, some people need a system that explains everything for them as being too "free" turns them away from the opportunity to learn and grow.

So what seems to us like paths that bring suffering, could potentially bring enlightenment :color:

With much love
Resonance