The Other Aspect of Pain

[Cmt12]

I'm hoping with this post I can shed some light on why the advice to turn inward when dealing with pain is valid.

We know that pain is there to ensure our health and safety. It tells us not to put our hand on the hot stove. We think of the purpose of pain as being there to tell us what to avoid, but there is another important aspect that we neglect.

When our hand touches the hot stove, we have a natural reflex to quickly pull it away, but what if that reflex didn't occur? If we imagine this, then we should be able to see this other purpose that pain serves - to command our attention.

Generally as a society, the way we react to pain is to strive to make it go away ASAP. This is often done through pharmacy, self-medication, or denial. However, if we understand that pain is trying to command our attention to its location, then we are rejecting what our mind/body wants, right?

What happens if we don't bring our attention to the pain of our hand on the hot stove? It may lead to serious damage and dysfunction. What happens if we don't bring our attention inward and follow the pain of our depression, shame, anxiety, anger, jealousy, etc? Does that lead to dysfunction and destruction?

[Maguru]

I'm hoping with this post I can shed some light on why the advice to turn inward when dealing with pain is valid.

We know that pain is there to ensure our health and safety. It tells us not to put our hand on the hot stove. We think of the purpose of pain as being there to tell us what to avoid, but there is another important aspect that we neglect.

When our hand touches the hot stove, we have a natural reflex to quickly pull it away, but what if that reflex didn't occur? If we imagine this, then we should be able to see this other purpose that pain serves - to command our attention.

Generally as a society, the way we react to pain is to strive to make it go away ASAP. This is often done through pharmacy, self-medication, or denial. However, if we understand that pain is trying to command our attention to its location, then we are rejecting what our mind/body wants, right? I think the pain is directing to what our mind/body wants and needs.

What happens if we don't bring our attention to the pain of our hand on the hot stove? It may lead to serious damage and dysfunction. What happens if we don't bring our attention inward and follow the pain of our depression, shame, anxiety, anger, jealousy, etc? Does that lead to dysfunction and destruction?
Yes, it has for me. I tried to fix my pain on the outside. It didn't work. I perceive any pain now as the evolutionary pulse. :smile:

[Ivy]

Yes, part of spiritual development (for me) has been to follow those psychological pathways, to let go what can be let go of, and to be aware of what will stay as a useful tool for survival.

In the short term, it can feel dysfunctional to delve into the darkness, so to speak. But I feel it is just uncovering or becoming aware of what was already there inside of us. In the long run to delve into those depths within us is hugely beneficial - and freeing.

I want to add though, that while some people seem to say, yep, I'm aware and cleared out of everything now, and shut the door again. The way I live is to keep the door open, and to practise looking inward and noticing what is there, and how I am responding inwardly to life.

[TommyHG]

Well, An understanding of the impact of culture on the pain experience is important in assuring effective and culturally-sensitive patient care. Great source!

[SpiritCarrier]

I thought these two videos demonstrated a unique aspect of pain. By agreeing to pain it makes it more acceptable. So in my opinion by facing pain and agreeing to use it in our lives we are affected differently. For instance, if someone you do not know comes up and slaps you, out of the blue, your reaction to that slap would be, most likely, anger and resentment. However, by consenting to the slap notice the reactions of the people in the video, they bond in some strange way. Their concern for one another is almost intimate.

So what I learned from this is that by facing our pain, agreeing to allow it into our lives, we take the control away from the negative and can create something positive from it.

Here are the links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ninOz5ValUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9sObr3dwdeE

Just my opinion.

Peace and Light,
SC

[running]

I have two methods on my spiritual journey in the most general sense.

One is to search within for pains to release. When I do it makes room for the bliss energy.

The other is to increase my bliss energy by various means and sit in it over and over. Soaking in it like the sun to make myself into it.

Both methods work very well. For me both seem equally needed for my progress.

[BurningBush]

Hey Cmt, check this out:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=71241&page=5

I didn't really mention pain until the fifth page, which is why I linked to that page, but part of what I was getting at in that thread was that sometimes it's worth doing things that cause pain in an effort to go deeper.

You mentioned the idea of me trying to achieve a permanent state of flow in another thread and I think you were spot on and I appreciate it because I hadn't thought of that term before that point. I think of addiction as like a step before that state of flow in that it is one degree of moving without fear (of the consequences of ones addiction); it just lacks the greater degree of fear of not needing addiction as a means of avoidance.

Back to your original point, following internal pain is all I've been doing for the last three years and I do it because I'm following something that is more important than that temporary pain. Ultimately, I'm following pleasure of that knowledge more than I'm following pain.

[TesseLated]

I've reflected on the source of my personal pains as well...and I do believe they push us to grow..I relate to this quote:

There is no coming to consciousness without pain. ~C. Jung

[Gem]

I'm hoping with this post I can shed some light on why the advice to turn inward when dealing with pain is valid.

We know that pain is there to ensure our health and safety. It tells us not to put our hand on the hot stove. We think of the purpose of pain as being there to tell us what to avoid, but there is another important aspect that we neglect.

When our hand touches the hot stove, we have a natural reflex to quickly pull it away, but what if that reflex didn't occur? If we imagine this, then we should be able to see this other purpose that pain serves - to command our attention.

Generally as a society, the way we react to pain is to strive to make it go away ASAP. This is often done through pharmacy, self-medication, or denial. However, if we understand that pain is trying to command our attention to its location, then we are rejecting what our mind/body wants, right?

What happens if we don't bring our attention to the pain of our hand on the hot stove? It may lead to serious damage and dysfunction. What happens if we don't bring our attention inward and follow the pain of our depression, shame, anxiety, anger, jealousy, etc? Does that lead to dysfunction and destruction?
I think it's worth noting that the reflex response (as in the hand on stove) is different to the personal reaction to pain.

[Cmt12]

Hey Cmt, check this out:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=71241&page=5

I didn't really mention pain until the fifth page, which is why I linked to that page, but part of what I was getting at in that thread was that sometimes it's worth doing things that cause pain in an effort to go deeper.

You mentioned the idea of me trying to achieve a permanent state of flow in another thread and I think you were spot on and I appreciate it because I hadn't thought of that term before that point. I think of addiction as like a step before that state of flow in that it is one degree of moving without fear (of the consequences of ones addiction); it just lacks the greater degree of fear of not needing addiction as a means of avoidance.

Back to your original point, following internal pain is all I've been doing for the last three years and I do it because I'm following something that is more important than that temporary pain. Ultimately, I'm following pleasure of that knowledge more than I'm following pain.
Right, as you explore and examine your inner pain in it various forms, you become more aware of the value in this practice over time; you grow stronger. There are a lot of people reluctant to even start this or give it a meaningful try and so they never gain these insights. I can remember when I first started, I didn't fully understand why you would want to bring your attention to your pain, so I was hoping in the OP to show that your mind/body wants you to do this despite what we've been conditioned to believe. The pain is saying, "Hey look over here. You need to deal with this."

[Cmt12]

So what I learned from this is that by facing our pain, agreeing to allow it into our lives, we take the control away from the negative and can create something positive from it.


That's true isn't it. I find when I have an unconscious expectation of life being pain free, I am operating from a lower, egocentric perspective, but when there is a certain acceptance of inevitable pain, I seem to be operating from a higher place that can easily transcend whatever has to be dealt with in a more stable, non reactive manner. This mindset isn't easy to maintain and takes constant reminder.

[BurningBush]

Cmt, if you're being completely honest, what are you trying to get from this?

[Cmt12]

Cmt, if you're being completely honest, what are you trying to get from this?
From spiritual development? I believe everything I wrote in those first few posts I made on this forum. I'm just waiting to finish..

[BurningBush]

From spiritual development? I believe everything I wrote in those first few posts I made on this forum. I'm just waiting to finish..
I went back and read the first post. I didn't realize you had stated it so explicitly.

I sense a lot of similarities between the two of us and I know it's a difficult road. If I'm reading your general themes correctly, it seems that, like me, you're willing to experience pain to go further. However, that doesn't seem to align with the quality of life goal.

[Cmt12]

I went back and read the first post. I didn't realize you had stated it so explicitly.

I sense a lot of similarities between the two of us and I know it's a difficult road. If I'm reading your general themes correctly, it seems that, like me, you're willing to experience pain to go further. However, that doesn't seem to align with the quality of life goal.
Yep, I've held so many different perspectives and ideas along the way that I feel like I could've written the majority of the posts in this forum at one point or another. I'm sure most of us who have done this for awhile feel that way.

I get the sense that I see you as being much farther along than you realize that you are. I think I've used the analogy of spiritual development being like swimming down deeper and deeper in a body of water toward a treasure chest at the ground floor. As you go deeper, you may not notice any progress because when you look around it looks similar to the beginning except maybe it's a little darker (more painful). Until you get to the ground floor and become aware of the treasure, you're going to be questioning the point to all of this.

Just to complete the analogy, as you are diving deeper there is someone (the ego) actively trying to impede you and once you get to the bottom, then there is a long battle before you can claim the treasure.

Why don't you see spiritual development aligning with the quality of life goal? You are sacrificing quality of life in the short term for a huge long term payoff. Of course, you only get the payoff if you finish. You have to go all the way. That's how I see it anyway.

[BurningBush]

Yep, I've held so many different perspectives and ideas along the way that I feel like I could've written the majority of the posts in this forum at one point or another. I'm sure most of us who have done this for awhile feel that way.
Interesting, that's an area where we differ. While my understanding had changed, my approach has not, at least not significantly.

I get the sense that I see you as being much farther along than you realize that you are. I think I've used the analogy of spiritual development being like swimming down deeper and deeper in a body of water toward a treasure chest at the ground floor. As you go deeper, you may not notice any progress because when you look around it looks similar to the beginning except maybe it's a little darker (more painful). Until you get to the ground floor and become aware of the treasure, you're going to be questioning the point to all of this.
I agree with the analogy and although I'm not positive, mostly because I've thought this before, I also think I'm close. Well, I'm close to achieving a minimum, which is to no longer feel like **** anymore.

Just to complete the analogy, as you are diving deeper there is someone (the ego) actively trying to impede you and once you get to the bottom, then there is a long battle before you can claim the treasure.

Why don't you see spiritual development aligning with the quality of life goal? You are sacrificing quality of life in the short term for a huge long term payoff. Of course, you only get the payoff if you finish. You have to go all the way. That's how I see it anyway.
To be clear, quality of life could be defined in many different ways but I'm talking about specific goals versus general ones, such as "quality of life." I see quality of life as a benefit but I have specific goals and this is a tool in the process.

[TesseLated]

Love this thought in relation to your thread...If we didn't have times of trial and pain, it would be far less likely that we would seek-

Each time the losses and deceptions of life teach us about impermanence, they bring us closer to the truth. When you fall from a great height, there is only one possible place to land: on the ground—the ground of truth. And if you have the understanding that comes from spiritual practice, then falling is in no way a disaster, but the discovery of an inner refuge. ~S. Rinpoche

[A human Being]

Brilliant analogy, Cmt! I feel like I've dived quite a way down, and at times it's like I've lost sight of the surface in my efforts to get to the bottom, and then I start to doubt that there even is a bottom. And then I'm caught in limbo, and I don't even know which way is up any more, because it all looks the same.