Walls

[blackraven]

Something I’ve noticed is despite my own perceptions, how I define myself as to who/what I think I am, others outside of me paint a different picture. Expectations are cast around me in life and deep down I know I’m not what appear to be on the surface. This isn’t low self-esteem, just an awareness of the large difference of perceived and pre-conceived definement of character. I’m just as likely to have expectations of others on ill-perceived ideals.

I think a person can often build walls up around him or herself in order to protect beliefs, thoughts, and perceptions. Pain is avoided by not stepping outside of ones comfort zones. In reference to pain, I’m talking about taking the chance that tender spots might be touched. Along with that comes fear that if we let others inside our walls exposure of self truth or true self will be revealed. That’s where self-dignity comes into play and the right to maintain a certain sense of privacy. It’s kind of like the invisible fence that shocks the pet if he goes too far near the edge. He’ll alter his path within time.

Walls or facades may exist in order to live a life in a safe, predictable manner or could be a means of protection from exposure to other’s expectations and not meeting them. I don’t know if this awareness that people are sometimes not what others portray is more about reality or a means of protection. I’m not speaking about ID, ego and superego vs. personal-self and social-self concepts.

I just wonder how often people live within the confines of walls and how expansiveness, letting go, true being, spirituality and all that come into play when these walls are up.

Your thoughts on this…

Blackraven

[Baile]

My experience has been that as one grows older, concern for ideas (ideals really) such as avoiding pain by not stepping outside of ones comfort zones, becomes irrelevant. The relevancy of existence is in the simple act of joyfully living life and responding with conscious equanimity to whatever the benevolent universe has in store. The walls I've set up in my life are created out of my need and desire to create a space in which I may fully realize that joyful, conscious aspect of myself.

I do that by avoiding that which I've come to see as a waste of my energy. I don't have a television for example. I don't have a telephone. I never listen to the radio or read the news. I barely ever listen to music anymore. I haven't eaten a restaurant in years because casual unconscious social energy is a drain.

There are many levels of pain, from emotional to spiritual. There is great wisdom in retreating from the world, and there is a reason why monks, nuns and spiritual hermits live apart from the world: to remove themselves from the banality of certain aspects of human emotional life. They're not setting up walls to avoid life; they're locking themselves into a self-examination soul crucible, one that most of the rest of the world isn't interested in and/or ready to explore. The rest of the world would be a distraction at that point. The walls aren't there to lock the the world out; the walls are there because the world isn't ready to enter.

[LadyMay]

I just wonder how often people live within the confines of walls and how expansiveness, letting go, true being, spirituality and all that come into play when these walls are up.

Your thoughts on this…

Blackraven

I have very high walls. It's something innate due to a need I had to protect myself most my life from a strong negative external force. I don't technically need them anymore, but they're so used to being there that it's hard to show my true colours.. as you said there is a huge distance between how others perceive me and how I actually am. Personally, I don't think that walls are necessary when you are solid in your perception of self, and so that is something I am working on.. gradually dissolving mine and letting the outside match the inside more. I don't think you can fully let go and be true and expand with these walls still in the way.

[FallingLeaves]

I just wonder how often people live within the confines of walls and how expansiveness, letting go, true being, spirituality and all that come into play when these walls are up.

Your thoughts on this…



I identified that I had walls at a very young age - that I was very much afraid of the way I would be hurt if I let them down. So I spent a lot of time trying to expand beyond them, gave people lots of chances to not hurt me... and every time I would take a chance, any time I would push the boundaries, the people around me would just do the emotional equivalent of slapping me around. It was like clockwork, I go to all this effort to get past it, then I get slapped around. I continued like that for a long time, then sometime after having my twin flame around I concluded it hurt too much to continue, if I was going to try to get beyond the walls in good faith but people were going to continue to hurt me every time I did it, well I just had enough of it. I tried to take the walls down, tried to give life a chance to show me some kindness... but all I ever got out of that was pain.

[silent whisper]

Something I’ve noticed is despite my own perceptions, how I define myself as to who/what I think I am, others outside of me paint a different picture. Expectations are cast around me in life and deep down I know I’m not what appear to be on the surface. This isn’t low self-esteem, just an awareness of the large difference of perceived and pre-conceived definement of character. I’m just as likely to have expectations of others on ill-perceived ideals.

I think a person can often build walls up around him or herself in order to protect beliefs, thoughts, and perceptions. Pain is avoided by not stepping outside of ones comfort zones. In reference to pain, I’m talking about taking the chance that tender spots might be touched. Along with that comes fear that if we let others inside our walls exposure of self truth or true self will be revealed. That’s where self-dignity comes into play and the right to maintain a certain sense of privacy. It’s kind of like the invisible fence that shocks the pet if he goes too far near the edge. He’ll alter his path within time.

Walls or facades may exist in order to live a life in a safe, predictable manner or could be a means of protection from exposure to other’s expectations and not meeting them. I don’t know if this awareness that people are sometimes not what others portray is more about reality or a means of protection. I’m not speaking about ID, ego and superego vs. personal-self and social-self concepts.

I just wonder how often people live within the confines of walls and how expansiveness, letting go, true being, spirituality and all that come into play when these walls are up.

Your thoughts on this…

Blackraven

Hello Blackraven.

People will live within the confines of their own space in the many ways they do until they are ready or something awakens to bring about a space of letting go. I suppose those that have awareness of themselves in this way can make a conscious effort to let go and expand. But those unaware of their protection/walls whatever you might call it, usually have their own experiences or situations that let those walls down in their own time. Regardless of walls people are still moving forward even when it might appear they are not. Just that some take longer and slower in the steps it may take to let go and let in..

Many people struggle with feeling care and love. I know many who fight to let their guard down, be open and vulnerable to allow in and let down those walls. I think those that are more open and willing to be vulnerable bridge that gap in some ways..

Their are many ways in which walls break down within self, but always in their own time and alignment..it happens in so many ways and experiences.

[blackraven]

My experience has been that as one grows older, concern for ideas (ideals really) such as avoiding pain by not stepping outside of ones comfort zones, becomes irrelevant. The relevancy of existence is in the simple act of joyfully living life and responding with conscious equanimity to whatever the benevolent universe has in store. The walls I've set up in my life are created out of my need and desire to create a space in which I may fully realize that joyful, conscious aspect of myself.

Are you saying while you've somewhat eliminated concern for ideals, you still have walls in order to create a private space in which you are able to realize the kind of joy you aspire for in life?

I do that by avoiding that which I've come to see as a waste of my energy. I don't have a television for example. I don't have a telephone. I never listen to the radio or read the news. I barely ever listen to music anymore. I haven't eaten a restaurant in years because casual unconscious social energy is a drain.

Sounds like you have eliminated a lot of unnecessary outside stimulation and I can see how peaceful that must be. Is there any conscious avoidance of these stimuli because they are indeed a drain on you?

There are many levels of pain, from emotional to spiritual. There is great wisdom in retreating from the world, and there is a reason why monks, nuns and spiritual hermits live apart from the world: to remove themselves from the banality of certain aspects of human emotional life. They're not setting up walls to avoid life; they're locking themselves into a self-examination soul crucible, one that most of the rest of the world isn't interested in and/or ready to explore. The rest of the world would be a distraction at that point. The walls aren't there to lock the the world out; the walls are there because the world isn't ready to enter.

There is great wisdom from retreating from the world and also great wisdom from co-existing in the world. Monks have the kind of walls I'm referring to and if it's an effort to keep the world out because it's not ready to enter, it just may be to avoid pain or living out of ones comfort zone. I think everyone has walls to a certain degree. Thanks for you input Baile.

Blackraven

[blackraven]

I have very high walls. It's something innate due to a need I had to protect myself most my life from a strong negative external force. I don't technically need them anymore, but they're so used to being there that it's hard to show my true colours.. as you said there is a huge distance between how others perceive me and how I actually am. Personally, I don't think that walls are necessary when you are solid in your perception of self, and so that is something I am working on.. gradually dissolving mine and letting the outside match the inside more. I don't think you can fully let go and be true and expand with these walls still in the way.

ScarlettHayden - It takes pure honesty to talk openly about having personal walls. I have to agree with you that one let go, can't be true and expand with walls in the way. But the effort alone to slowly break down the walls, trust, let others in, etc. is a type of awareness awakening of self. Thanks for your input ScarlettHayden.

Blackraven

[blackraven]

I identified that I had walls at a very young age - that I was very much afraid of the way I would be hurt if I let them down. So I spent a lot of time trying to expand beyond them, gave people lots of chances to not hurt me... and every time I would take a chance, any time I would push the boundaries, the people around me would just do the emotional equivalent of slapping me around. It was like clockwork, I go to all this effort to get past it, then I get slapped around. I continued like that for a long time, then sometime after having my twin flame around I concluded it hurt too much to continue, if I was going to try to get beyond the walls in good faith but people were going to continue to hurt me every time I did it, well I just had enough of it. I tried to take the walls down, tried to give life a chance to show me some kindness... but all I ever got out of that was pain.

FallingLeaves - It's the habitual pain when guards are let down that I feel makes some of us build even bigger walls to stay inside so that the next time it will be harder for others to cause pain and discomfort. It's that repeated attempt that hardens some and for others they just get tired of building walls. I recently have found that the walls I built weren't as necessary as I had thought for years in some instances. In other instances the walls went back up. It's a give and take, back and forth, testing of the waters. I guess it's just life for some of us. Thank you Falling Leaves.

Blackraven

[blackraven]

Hello Blackraven.

People will live within the confines of their own space in the many ways they do until they are ready or something awakens to bring about a space of letting go. I suppose those that have awareness of themselves in this way can make a conscious effort to let go and expand. But those unaware of their protection/walls whatever you might call it, usually have their own experiences or situations that let those walls down in their own time. Regardless of walls people are still moving forward even when it might appear they are not. Just that some take longer and slower in the steps it may take to let go and let in..

Many people struggle with feeling care and love. I know many who fight to let their guard down, be open and vulnerable to allow in and let down those walls. I think those that are more open and willing to be vulnerable bridge that gap in some ways..

Their are many ways in which walls break down within self, but always in their own time and alignment..it happens in so many ways and experiences.

Hi SW! I think you're spot on when you say that some people have more conscious awareness that they have built walls of protection whereas others don't really ever give it much thought despite perhaps having walls as well. I don't know who is better off, but as you said, all in due time everyone is faced with moving past discomfort and pain and surviving nonetheless. Growth can be snail slow or rabbit fast depending on our willingness to be vulnerable and exposed. I think each time there is disappointment either the walls go back up, maybe even taller or we learn from that disappointment and grow tougher skin. But even tough skin is a wall itself. Thanks for your input SW.

Blackraven

[Baile]

There is great wisdom from retreating from the world and also great wisdom from co-existing in the world. Monks have the kind of walls I'm referring to and if it's an effort to keep the world out because it's not ready to enter, it just may be to avoid pain or living out of ones comfort zone.I'm going to come right out and say it! :smile: There is great wisdom in the ideals of our youth (co-existing being another, yes). I went through two seriously awful personal relationships because I believed that love was pain. Of course love is also love, but it's understood that love is also pain, and that it's a sacrifice, and that you get your heart ripped out, etc.

And so I lived that love/pain for 25 years or so. And now I don't have to anymore! Because life is love, it's not pain! And I retreat (have ceased to co-exist) from the world because I have outgrown the world that believes that love is pain. I don't need it anymore, I'm on to other things now.

[blackraven]

I'm going to come right out and say it! :smile: There is great wisdom in the ideals of our youth (co-existing being another, yes). I went through two seriously awful personal relationships because I believed that love was pain. Of course love is also love, but it's understood that love is also pain, and that it's a sacrifice, and that you get your heart ripped out, etc.

And so I lived that love/pain for 25 years or so. And now I don't have to anymore! Because life is love, it's not pain! And I retreat (have ceased to co-exist) from the world because I have outgrown the world that believes that love is pain. I don't need it anymore, I'm on to other things now.

Baile - You put it out there and I appreciate it! I too have retreated from much involvement with most people as I for some reason have developed this person (me) or persona anyway that doesn't enjoy the company of many outside a very small circle. After being in group settings it takes me a few days to get myself settled back down. Love isn't always love; it comes with pain and for some it's more pain than love, that's for sure. Being hurt when the heart has been laid open and vulnerable is one of the hardest pains and one that builds walls fast, I think.

I have had friends in my life come and go, mostly go, because I proved to not meet their ideals they set for me. Even if I made every attempt to accept them fully for the person they were, they eventually found a reason to walk. So I'm guarded now and don't make a lot of attempt to make friends. I completely understand where you're coming from. Rejection is a biggie for me and I make every attempt to avoid it unless my back is against the wall and the wall crumbles down. Thanks again for your input, Baile.

Blackraven

[Baile]

Another example: My father died recently. I wasn't in pain, I didn't cry, I was happy he was released back to spirit. He had a nice life. I've cried tears of happiness at the astounding miracle of life, and of family soul connection, and how beautiful and special and breathtakingly fragile the whole soul-spirit incarnation process is. But I'm in no pain over any of it.

[Baile]

Love isn't always love; it comes with pain and for some it's more pain than love, that's for sure. Being hurt when the heart has been laid open and vulnerable is one of the hardest pains and one that builds walls fast, I think.

Rejection is a biggie for me and I make every attempt to avoid it unless my back is against the wall and the wall crumbles down. Thanks again for your input, Baile.

BlackravenOkay, love isn't always... hugs and kisses 24/7, that I'll agree with. :smile: But I honestly can't agree that love isn't always love. Not in my world, not now anyway. 25 years ago, love wasn't really love, it was... kinda sorta like the person. But now, love is love, always. And if it isn't, then it's not actually love. No, I do not have many people in my life who I share this understanding of love with. And that's because most people think that love means you get to own part of the person and judge them and criticize them... all because you love them! I don't do that version of love anymore. Am I avoiding those people because I want to limit the pain on my life? No, I'm avoiding them because I have no time for that nonsense.

You do a wonderful job of expressing acceptance with your constant thank yous and many personal touches to your posts. You are the reverse of rejection. Is it more relevant for your soul-spirit growth to focus on your so-called rejection complex, or on your very special and unique gift of acceptance openness? These are personal soul questions, and only the individual soul can answer them. For the individual soul, perspective and choice IS the truth. Much different than generic life and spiritual development conformity beliefs (we need to experience pain, we need to socialize, etc.). Yes we need all that... until the soul no longer requires it.

[blackraven]

Another example: My father died recently. I wasn't in pain, I didn't cry, I was happy he was released back to spirit. He had a nice life. I've cried tears of happiness at the astounding miracle of life, and of family soul connection, and how beautiful and special and breathtakingly fragile the whole soul-spirit incarnation process is. But I'm in no pain over any of it.

Baile - I'm very sorry for your recent loss of your father. I've lost 4 grandparents, but neither parent yet, although they are getting up there in age and my mom has had cancer. I find your outlook on death "release back to spirit" refreshing. I hope I can have the same outlook in the future.

Blackraven

[blackraven]

Okay, love isn't always... hugs and kisses 24/7, that I'll agree with. :smile: But I honestly can't agree that love isn't always love. Not in my world, not now anyway. 25 years ago, love wasn't really love, it was... kinda sorta like the person. But now, love is love, always. And if it isn't, then it's not actually love. No, I do not have many people in my life who I share this understanding of love with. And that's because most people think that love means you get to own part of the person and judge them and criticize them... all because you love them! I don't do that version of love anymore. Am I avoiding those people because I want to limit the pain on my life? No, I'm avoiding them because I have no time for that nonsense.

I feel my ability to love without expectations of the other fulfilling my personal needs has been transformed over my lifetime. When I was just starting out in the arena of love, I was jealous, untrusting and even somewhat controlling for fear that I would lose the love. Many years later I'm still with the same person and our relationship is nothing like it was in the beginning. In fact we look back and laugh at our beginning immaturity.

You do a wonderful job of expressing acceptance with your constant thank yous and many personal touches to your posts. You are the reverse of rejection. Is it more relevant for your soul-spirit growth to focus on your so-called rejection complex, or on your very special and unique gift of acceptance openness? These are personal soul questions, and only the individual soul can answer them. For the individual soul, perspective and choice IS the truth. Much different than generic life and spiritual development conformity beliefs (we need to experience pain, we need to socialize, etc.). Yes we need all that... until the soul no longer requires it.

Thank you for these very kind words. It's interesting to me that your insight about expressing acceptance is at the core of my being and yet I spend more time acknowledging rejection than having acceptance of my own self. Your post has given me thought for a new revelation. It's the acceptance of others that I desire to focus my soul path on, not what lies in the past. Thank you, Baile as it meant a lot to me.

Blackraven

[Baile]

:icon_bounce: :icon_rr: :grommit: Bouncy frizzy grommits, blackraven, you are so welcome!

[Baile]

I've lost 4 grandparents, but neither parent yet, although they are getting up there in age and my mom has had cancer. I find your outlook on death "release back to spirit" refreshing.My older sister died of cancer a year ago. It's ludicrous that a person with a terminal illness is forced to live out the final few months of their life. It's just such a spiritually ignorant view and understanding of the human soul-spirit being. I had a revelation in my early 30s regarding reincarnation and karma. It completely changed my relationship to life. I now see life and existence as a miracle, and the universe as a benevolent loving playground for the soul to incarnate and learn and grow. After which, happily back we go to spirit.

[Ivy]

The trick with walls is knowing where the doors are.

I am the person who constructed my walls and I hold the understanding as to why - that understanding is the key - and when others show it, they let themselves in as freely and easily as I am able to let myself out.

Walls only become a prison when you don't know the way out. And I ignore those who stand banging on the outside that I should let the walls down and let them in, because they don't know the way.

[blackraven]

The trick with walls is knowing where the doors are.

I am the person who constructed my walls and I hold the understanding as to why - that understanding is the key - and when others show it, they let themselves in as freely and easily as I am able to let myself out.

Walls only become a prison when you don't know the way out. And I ignore those who stand banging on the outside that I should let the walls down and let them in, because they don't know the way.

Ivy - All so beautifully put into words. I agree with you that a person does construct his or her own walls and it is that person that can open the doors if he/she wishes to let people in, keep people out, or step outside of the walls oneself. Wonderful. Thanks for your input, Ivy.

Blackraven

[Ivy]

Thanks, you're welcome :)

[OftheSun]

This poem by Robert Frost comes to mind

Mending Wall

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows?
But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

[blackraven]

This poem by Robert Frost comes to mind

Mending Wall

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows?
But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

OftheSun - This is a lovely poem. I've never seen it before. I so love poetry. "Good fences make good neighbors" reminds me of all the last two homes I lived in we put up fences. Fences can give one a false sense of security and privacy. I had a neighbor at my last house that made the fence seem invisible. Not worth going into detail as I'll keep this positive. I live on a bigger property now and enjoy the wildlife that saunter into the yard. I wouldn't dream of putting up anymore fences. Of course as far as that's concerned, I've changed and don't feel a need for physical walls. It's the emotional and mental walls that I still put up sometimes. Thanks for sharing the poem, OftheSun. Very nice!

Blackraven

[Moonglow]

Hello,

This thread gives some reflections.

I have walls up, but some are flexible. Meaning, that at first meeting someone there is a bit of self protection if I sense it is needed. Some people can meet and feel a trust right away, while others not so sure what his/her angle may be.

Accept it is the way I operate at times.

There are also things I keep to myself. Feel it is not the others business to know and if he/she is interested, then it is up to them to express that interest. I'm not inclined to hang it all out there.

Some of it admit, is self protecting against potential criticism or assumption about me based on someones own strict view point or unwillingness to listen. So, just keep a lid on it.

I think walls can also be a form of boundaries one may set up. His/her comfort zone and these should be respected. If it comes to where one is completely shutting out the world or even oneself, then believe this is where understanding and support should be used. But feel it is not for another to force one to come or be at a place he/she is not ready to be.

At times need my own space, but I live in this world and one way or another it will enter my space. So, try and find the balance with it.
To not let so much in that it overtakes me and to not totally disconnect from it all.

It seems there is always someone who comes along to help pull me out of myself, when needed and a space to be with myself. Sometimes just need to give myself time and space and to see the wall as just a temporary thing. It is for me to be open to these and allow myself to take these opportunities when felt needed.

[blackraven]

There are also things I keep to myself. Feel it is not the others business to know and if he/she is interested, then it is up to them to express that interest. I'm not inclined to hang it all out there.

Some of it admit, is self protecting against potential criticism or assumption about me based on someones own strict view point or unwillingness to listen. So, just keep a lid on it.

Moonglow - Privacy is very important to me both for myself and others. I believe one is entitled to keep whatever their own private business is to him or herself. I had a personal experience just in the last week where I felt saying less was more and my personal integrity was something I had a right to protect. Criticism stems from personally judging others without concernment for understanding and stepping into their shoes. Respect is a biggie for me as well because I feel I'm entitled to my privacy and private thoughts/feelings without others prying in order to then judge. I "just keep a lid on it" a lot. It keeps things less complicated and stressful. Thank you for you post, Moonglow.

Blackraven