Wicca? Paganism?

[Lavender]

Can someone explain to me the difference between Wicca and Paganism? I think I fall under one of those categories but I'm not sure which.

[Lilyth Von Gore]

Paganism is an umbrella term for any religion that is not Abrahamic, like Judaism or Christianity. Wicca is an Earth based religion introduced by Gerald Gardner, who followed the teachings of Aleister Crowley. So it falls under Paganism.

[Lavender]

Paganism is an umbrella term for any religion that is not Abrahamic, like Judaism or Christianity. Wicca is an Earth based religion introduced by Gerald Gardner, who followed the teachings of Aleister Crowley. So it falls under Paganism.

Yikes isn't Aleister Crowley notorious for being a bad guy?

[Badger1777]

Yikes isn't Aleister Crowley notorious for being a bad guy?

He was notorious yes. But what you have to consider is why he was notorious, and who decided he was a bad guy.

He was a 'bad guy' because the stuff he very publicly believed did not conform with what mainstream society said he should believe.

It wasn't just hundreds of years ago when anyone whose view didn't conform to the church would be considered evil. That view still prevails today, and in Crowley's time, witchcraft was still very much illegal in England.

[BriarRose]

I think the last trial for witchcraft in Britain was held during Word War II - to my mind, modern times! I think any school of spiritual thought can be turned to evil. It depends on the souls of it's disciples.

[Badger1777]

I think the last trial for witchcraft in Britain was held during Word War II - to my mind, modern times! I think any school of spiritual thought can be turned to evil. It depends on the souls of it's disciples.

And this is part of the basis for Crowley's evil reputation. He is famously quoted as saying something like 'Do as you will', meaning do whatever you want. The context was deliberately omitted when mainstream media quoted him. The wider context being that through cultivation of the mind, your 'will' will usually be for positive things to happen. 'Do as you will' is only an evil thing to say if the person's will is fundamentally evil.

[Lilyth Von Gore]

Yikes isn't Aleister Crowley notorious for being a bad guy?

He liked to shock people, to challenge their deep rooted beliefs.
He believed women were equal to men.
Crowley brought forward Thelema. He taught it.
He was not a bad person. Gardner was one of his students.

[Jenny Crow]

He liked to shock people, to challenge their deep rooted beliefs.
He believed women were equal to men.
Crowley brought forward Thelema. He taught it.
He was not a bad person. Gardner was one of his students.

I don't think that Gardner was ever a 'student' of Crowley's, they knew each other and possibly were friends at one time, though. They collaborated together on certain rituals and rites of Wicca as they were both interested in a world Nature religion. It was actually Crowley who authored the Wiccan "Charge" although it was rewritten by Doreen Valiente to go into the Gardnerian Book of Shadows. Crowley and Gardner were both initiated into sister covens of the Nine Covens of Old George Pickingill, and that's where some of the "Old Craft" ideas came from and found their way into Wicca.

[Jenny Crow]

.................. He is famously quoted as saying something like 'Do as you will', meaning do whatever you want. The context was deliberately omitted when mainstream media quoted him.

Crowley: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will"

[norseman]

As has been said, Pagan is a blanket word covering a whole raft of beliefs and life-styles INCLUDING Wicca.
Gardner was a dilettante plagiarist who took ideas from many sources to "manufacture" wicca. He was also an ordained priest of the Celtic Church. He was a main collaborator of Ross Nichols, founder of the Order of Bards and Druids. Together they formalised the Festival Calender, based on the old Agricultural Calender.
At the core of Wicca is British Witchcraft - many wiccans prefer to ignore that !

[BriarRose]

All of the things posted above whet my appetite to learn more. I guess it's up to me to acquire the knowledge - it's not in the standard "New Age" books on Wicca I've been pulling from bookstores.

Lavender, knowledge is power. No subject should be tabu, or too frightening to explore. You are young - I am young at heart. We both need to learn, and "own our power". :smile: