to spank or not to spank

[elisi]

i anticipate a lively debate but i am curious as to the opinions in relation to the age of the poster to their opinion.

i had kids that i could discipline by other means that worked. but i also think there are exceptions; ie when my daughter was 2 and ran out into the road, i gave her a big swat on the butt. a 2 year old has no conception of danger or death. just telling her would not keep her from the road. so, yeah, a little physical connection did.

personally, growing up i was spanked and it didn't cause me 'trauma' or psychological damage. i turned out pretty healthy mentally and i loved my parents.

*i am not talking about 'beating' a kid. let's be clear on that.

i'm in my late 60's and i was suspecting the older folks wouldn't have a problem with spanking but the younger ones would. you don't have to state your age-just imply young or old.

[Gem]

The standard lines like 'it teaches them violence', but I'm not so sure about that, because there's a big difference between a smack and abuse.

Parents disipline their children and these days we have parenting strategies designed by people with doctorates of psychology specialising in behavioural science. People go and read up on techniques, strategies and methods and incorporate very civil disiplines like 'time out' or 'reward and privileges systems, which are good too; there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

The problem is, if a parent smacks their kid as you described, it's frowned upon, and some countries have outlawed smacking entirely, but one could use these modern strategies to extremes, and not be seen as 'abusive', and there's no legislation against giving the kid a dozen 'time outs' per day, for example.

You know, a moderate smack is not as harmful as an extreme 'time out strategy'... this is where I don't have a 'no smacking' attitude, because it isn't so simple or black or white, but I can say, extreme implementation of any method of disipline is no good.

[linen53]

I'm in my 60's and I was smacked around pretty good when I was growing up. It was a natural transition into my own motherhood. Never questioned it at the time.

I think back, and would say I wish I would have been less physical in reprimanding and more into discussing.

I think it is a mixture of the two that makes the lessons I needed to teach my children effective.

[WhiteWarrior]

This is uncomplicated in my country. Physically disciplining children in any way is illegal, and could leave to the child dept take your children away and have them placed with a foster family until they are 18. Plus eventual prison for the parent. And believe me, this is heavily enforced by every official service that has contact with children; teachers, medical services etc. A blue mark will not be ignored by anyone.

[elisi]

thank you for your thoughtful comments.

one thing that has come from society's rules on punishment is when the kid threatens the parent. 'touch me (any form, even grabbing the arm) and i'll call cps!' even if the parent hasn't really done anything the kid uses that phrase to get away with murder. time out and taking away privileges doesn't work on all.

once when my kids were about 10 and 12 they were fighting and i gave them the speech about 'you're sister and brother, you shouldn't fight, blah blah blah' i told them to go to one of their rooms and don't come out til you've made up.

well, it got really quiet in there so i opened the door and they had pinned a photo of me on the wall and were throwing darts at it. i thought, hey, at least they're working together. lol

[elisi]

This is uncomplicated in my country. Physically disciplining children in any way is illegal, and could leave to the child dept take your children away and have them placed with a foster family until they are 18. Plus eventual prison for the parent. And believe me, this is heavily enforced by every official service that has contact with children; teachers, medical services etc. A blue mark will not be ignored by anyone.

what country is that?

[LadyMay]

I think for situations which a child gets into and doesn't realize the consequences for and doesn't experience them for themselves there needs to be some sort of 'ouch' reaction that they receive in response. Saying that I'm against smacking, and think a firm no would probably do the trick. No young child likes to feel rejected by their parents. A 'no' is probably enough.

[elisi]

I think for situations which a child gets into and doesn't realize the consequences for and doesn't experience them for themselves there needs to be some sort of 'ouch' reaction that they receive in response. Saying that I'm against smacking, and think a firm no would probably do the trick. No young child likes to feel rejected by their parents. A 'no' is probably enough.

i'm going to guess that you don't have kids?

saying no to a 2 year old just...doesn't...work.

[Lilyth Von Gore]

I was spanked as a child by my Grandmother. She would always give me a chance to stop misbehaving, and if I continued, she'd swat me on the bottom. Never left any marks, but I remembered it.
I'm not a violent person, nor am I psychologically damaged.
Frankly, if it wasn't illegal in Sweden, I'm fairly certain mh Dad would discipline my wee sister, because she can be a brat at the best of times and she's only two.

[OnAPath]

I'm in my thirties, and I have a Behavioral Psychology degree. I have a 2 year old. Do a search for behavioral pairing on the internet. I change my tone of voice when I grab her, then the "you will hurt yourself!" or something. Immediately afterward, I get down on her level, change my tone back to normal, and tell her that she did something very dangerous, needs to be careful, you scared me, whatever the scenario.

In this way, I have paired the voice with a reprimand, and all I have to do is say her name a certain way for her to know she has done wrong. I'm not raising my voice, not shouting, but using a command tone. I pronounce her name differently, like how some kids knew they were in trouble if their middle name was used. I immediately go back to normal tone and get down on her level. I talk to her and explain what happened, and why it was very important for me to stop her right at that very moment. I then tell her how much I love her, and we trade hugs and kisses.

I am a very calm and patient person, so when I bring out that voice, everyone in the house knows it's serious. It also helps that I go right back to normal tone, so she knows that I am not angry.

I'm not against a swat to get the point across, but she's an empath and does not need it. I am, however against time outs. Leaving a child to their own devices when they are mad at you for taking them away from the situation is just inviting trouble. If you need to take the child away from the situation, then do it, if they are kicking and screaming, then deal with it. Hug them, walk down the street, read a book, but don't sit them alone and walk away. In our house, we talk things out.

[LadyMay]

i'm going to guess that you don't have kids?

saying no to a 2 year old just...doesn't...work.

Yeah you caught me. I don't believe in punishment though. I had too much of that. Made me a mess.

[elisi]

I'm in my thirties, and I have a Behavioral Psychology degree. I have a 2 year old. Do a search for behavioral pairing on the internet. I change my tone of voice when I grab her, then the "you will hurt yourself!" or something. Immediately afterward, I get down on her level, change my tone back to normal, and tell her that she did something very dangerous, needs to be careful, you scared me, whatever the scenario.

In this way, I have paired the voice with a reprimand, and all I have to do is say her name a certain way for her to know she has done wrong. I'm not raising my voice, not shouting, but using a command tone. I pronounce her name differently, like how some kids knew they were in trouble if their middle name was used. I immediately go back to normal tone and get down on her level. I talk to her and explain what happened, and why it was very important for me to stop her right at that very moment. I then tell her how much I love her, and we trade hugs and kisses.

I am a very calm and patient person, so when I bring out that voice, everyone in the house knows it's serious. It also helps that I go right back to normal tone, so she knows that I am not angry.

I'm not against a swat to get the point across, but she's an empath and does not need it. I am, however against time outs. Leaving a child to their own devices when they are mad at you for taking them away from the situation is just inviting trouble. If you need to take the child away from the situation, then do it, if they are kicking and screaming, then deal with it. Hug them, walk down the street, read a book, but don't sit them alone and walk away. In our house, we talk things out.

you're very fortunate that that tactic worked with your daughter......it did not with mine.

[linen53]

A blue mark will not be ignored by anyone.

Why do some associate spanking with physical abuse?:dontknow: They are 2 different things.

[OnAPath]

you're very fortunate that that tactic worked with your daughter......it did not with mine.

I agree! I have been lucky with her. However, if I have another child, I will have to learn what works for him/her. I know it's been mentioned on here already, but discipline is definitely not a one size fits all.

[elisi]

although i occasionally got spanked as a kid, the worst for me was being grounded. i lived to surf-would skip school to go. telling me i couldn't go to the beach was torture.

yep-gotta find each kids' buttons.

[sound]

to spank or not to spank

I vote not to .... hands are not for hitting is best taught ... not much teaching in hitting, other than to teach children to be fearful of being hit ...

[Leonine]

Not to. Ever.

Physically assaulting a child to gain "compliance" is not helpful. There are many that grew up being assaulted by their parents and who nowadays claim "it never did me any harm" and that might be so.

But YOU are not the child awaiting assault in question. On some level or another it just might do them some lasting harm - all so a parent can get their temporary way.

If someone really MUST hit a small or young personality to "gain a faster control" ..... go and buy a puppy and hit that. (And I bet that idea would cause FURY, even in the hearts of those who would hit their child! :wink: ).

[elisi]

Not to. Ever.

Physically assaulting a child to gain "compliance" is not helpful. There are many that grew up being assaulted by their parents and who nowadays claim "it never did me any harm" and that might be so.

But YOU are not the child awaiting assault in question. On some level or another it just might do them some lasting harm - all so a parent can get their temporary way.

If someone really MUST hit a small or young personality to "gain a faster control" ..... go and buy a puppy and hit that. (And I bet that idea would cause FURY, even in the hearts of those who would hit their child! :wink: ).

so, you think a swat on the padded bottom is assault?

[Leonine]

It is! And if I did it to you - or someone in the workplace did it to you - it might end in legal charges being brought or dismissal from a job.

(Actually, legally it is called "battery"; the threatening of it is the "assault").

:smile:

[LadyMay]

It is! And if I did it to you - or someone in the workplace did it to you - it might end in legal charges being brought or dismissal from a job.

(Actually, legally it is called "battery"; the threatening of it is the "assault").

:smile:

This.

(just writing this random sentence here because apparently I can't post things which contain under ten characters :D )

[LadyMay]

I have said here before that I'm not a parent so I don't have any experience but I have a good knowledge of psychology and I think knowing how to respond to children psychologically in the correct way is enough. Force should never have to be used (in any manner)

[elisi]

It is! And if I did it to you - or someone in the workplace did it to you - it might end in legal charges being brought or dismissal from a job.

(Actually, legally it is called "battery"; the threatening of it is the "assault").

:smile:

i'm not making any judgements-i just wanted clarification. i tried to make clear in the beginning we were not talking about beatings.

i appreciate all the replies.

i also had a hunch that the ones who more or less didn't find anything wrong with swats or spankings would be the older crowd and i thought the younger ones would be the ones who were against it no matter what.

[onetruebeliever]

I think for situations which a child gets into and doesn't realize the consequences for and doesn't experience them for themselves there needs to be some sort of 'ouch' reaction that they receive in response. Saying that I'm against smacking, and think a firm no would probably do the trick. No young child likes to feel rejected by their parents. A 'no' is probably enough.

I'm late to the party, but I am old. I hate saying that. LOL!

As a mom to two boys I can tell you unequivocally that "no" hardly ever works if your child has a mind to do something. I was spanked and slapped as a child - I grew up well adjusted and mentally healthy. That being said, I didn't spank like I was spanked, but both of my kids got a swat on the behind for certain things, like stepping away from me in the parking lot, telling me no, they would not do something, stuff like that. We did time outs - both of my boys had to sit in a chair with their hands in their lap and feet on the floor. One or two minutes did the trick - they were where I could see them. They were removed from the situation, we had talks. When they got older - grounding from going or doing was the punishment. They have both grown up just fine and are very nice young men. You have to know your kids to learn what is effective.

[LadyMay]

I'm late to the party, but I am old. I hate saying that. LOL!

As a mom to two boys I can tell you unequivocally that "no" hardly ever works if your child has a mind to do something. I was spanked and slapped as a child - I grew up well adjusted and mentally healthy. That being said, I didn't spank like I was spanked, but both of my kids got a swat on the behind for certain things, like stepping away from me in the parking lot, telling me no, they would not do something, stuff like that. We did time outs - both of my boys had to sit in a chair with their hands in their lap and feet on the floor. One or two minutes did the trick - they were where I could see them. They were removed from the situation, we had talks. When they got older - grounding from going or doing was the punishment. They have both grown up just fine and are very nice young men. You have to know your kids to learn what is effective.

Yeah each one to their own :)

I just remembered actually before my mother remarried (which is when the excessive 'punishments' started- not from her) I think she told me something like I did something bad and she said a firm no and I never did it again.. I don't know, I'll have to ask her again. Up until then I was okay without any smacks- and I was an unruly child! I guess it depends on the parent and child in question, as you said. I remember when I made friends with a toddler and whenever she did anything dangerous I would explain to her why she couldn't do it- why it was dangerous. Her mum used to tell her 'no' but it never worked. Yet when I explained to her the consequences she seemed to understand and stopped doing whatever it was she was doing. So.. yeah.