Can I still eat fish and be a vegetarian?

[Heaven]

I want to be a vegetarian or vegan, but I don't want to give up on sea food, I love sea food! Can I still be a vegetarian, I mean I won't be eating meat. Is fish consider meat? Fish is good for you.

[elisi]

i'm not a vegetarian but my friend is and she eats fish but no beef, pork or chicken.

[muileag]

The term is "pescetarian"

[Heaven]

Then that's what I want to be a pescetarian, I don't know why but lately when I smell meat I start gagging. Something with the meat that I just don't want to eat anymore. It disgust me! I want to eliminate cheese and milk too, even thou I love cheese, but I know is not good for your health.

[Gem]

The term is "pescetarian"

Pesky widdew pescewians. :smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

I'm so sorry, but I am bugged by people that call themselves a
vegetarian and still eat something with a face.

What that is is a person that doesn't eat red meat.

When I was a vegetarian for 15 years I didn't eat a brownie if it
was made with an egg.

I don't even understand how someone could kill and eat flesh and say that word
about themselves.

No judgment on what people eat...just the misnomer.

[annabelle239]

I'm so sorry, but I am bugged by people that call themselves a
vegetarian and still eat something with a face.

What that is is a person that doesn't eat red meat.

When I was a vegetarian for 15 years I didn't eat a brownie if it
was made with an egg.

I don't even understand how someone could kill and eat flesh and say that word
about themselves.

No judgment on what people eat...just the misnomer.

i agree,it bothers me too that is most definitely not a vegetarian. however, eating a brownie with an egg is vegan. i was vegetarian for 14 years,and am now vegan. cheese now grosses me out as much as meat.

[Rah nam]

You choose your diet the way you feel it is most appropriate, and if you like to give it a name, by all means give it a name.
Make one up if you like.
I personally design my diet to my needs, and I do not eat many things a vegan would eat, but I eat one or two particular yogurts and butter milk which are OK for me as well as certain honeys.
I would not eat any grains, cane sugar or anything that is processed, and only drink water and green tea. But this is my diet, and it has no name.

[mogenblue]

You choose your diet the way you feel it is most appropriate, and if you like to give it a name, by all means give it a name.
Make one up if you like.
I personally design my diet to my needs, and I do not eat many things a vegan would eat, but I eat one or two particular yogurts and butter milk which are OK for me as well as certain honeys.
I would not eat any grains, cane sugar or anything that is processed, and only drink water and green tea. But this is my diet, and it has no name.

AAHH!! So that's the no-name diet!! :D :D

Well, I agree with you. Choose the diet that best fits with you. Don't worry too much about the names.

If I would choose a name for my diet I would call it the Cheap & Healthy Diet.

[Heaven]

If that's the case I can't never be a vegetarian. I was just wondering what category I be in. Cause I'm almost there on eliminating meat from my diet, but I'm not giving up sea food, or eggs either. If I have to choose a name for my diet would be sea food lover, lol :D I do agree with you Rah nam!!

[Gem]

If that's the case I can't never be a vegetarian. I was just wondering what category I be in.

Post #3 .

Cause I'm almost there on eliminating meat from my diet, but I'm not giving up sea food, or eggs either. If I have to choose a name for my diet would be sea food lover, lol :D I do agree with you Rah nam!!
That like, I sea food, then I eat it.

[Heaven]

Maybe we should be seagetarian! lol

[mogenblue]

How about oceanarian?
In your case more specific an atlanticarian.
People on the west side would be pacificarians. :)

[Heaven]

How about oceanarian?
In your case more specific an atlanticarian.
People on the west side would be pacificarians. :)

hahaha.......lol, :D Atlanticarian then!! :tongue:

[Ludo Eden]

I want to be a vegetarian or vegan, but I don't want to give up on sea food, I love sea food! Can I still be a vegetarian, I mean I won't be eating meat. Is fish consider meat? Fish is good for you.
There are so many levels of vegetarianism, maybe only two or three for vegans, same for fruitarians, but yes you can call yourself a type of vegetarian, but I would advise to check what that is before advocating (just in case) check up on Pescetarianism first then go from there,
I'm Ultra strict , but its sometimes good to have labels on a lifestyle to break the ice a little, <^x^>

[Heaven]

There are so many levels of vegetarianism, maybe only two or three for vegans, same for fruitarians, but yes you can call yourself a type of vegetarian, but I would advise to check what that is before advocating (just in case) check up on Pescetarianism first then go from there,
I'm Ultra strict , but its sometimes good to have labels on a lifestyle to break the ice a little, <^x^>

Thanks for your comment!!! To be honest it really doesn't matter to me the label or name, I just want to be more healthy and be able to stick to a good healthy diet that's going to help my body and mind be stronger. I will definitely check on Pescetarianism!

By the way welcome to SF forum!!!! :hug3:

[Heaven]

Ok, I have decided to be a pescetarian!! :fish: so wish me luck, last night I saw a food commercial for chicken and I got hungry for chicken, but I wont do it!! I hope this eating journey wont be difficult. :tongue:

[mogenblue]

Ok, I have decided to be a pescetarian!! :fish: so wish me luck, last night I saw a food commercial for chicken and I got hungry for chicken, but I wont do it!! I hope this eating journey wont be difficult. :tongue:

Good luck man. May the blessings of Neptune be with you. :fish:
Don't eat chicken. Those chicks are so packed up in megafarms, that can never be good. Fish can swim free in the sea. Well, if you buy fish that did swim free in the sea or ocean.

Concentrate on fibers and other things that give a saturated feeling. Fat does not necesarily have to be bad. It depends on the type of fat.
If you move away from read meat and dairy you take a significant step towards a more healthy diet.

Take a look at the Healthy Eating Pyramid at Harvard School of Public Health (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramid-full-story/).
I found that very interesting.

-Mogy

[Heaven]

Don't eat chicken. Those chicks are so packed up in megafarms, that can never be good.

Have you heard of the mutant chickens of KFC its pretty disgusting, I used to love KFC till I read about it. I don't know if is true! Anyone in this forum heard or read about it? Do you think is true or something made up? Poor chickens! :(

[mogenblue]

Here in Holland we hear that the beaks of chickens are cut off and live stock is injected with a cocktail of anti-biotics to prevent them from getting ill. But those anti-biotic cocktails make virusses immune in the long run so hospitals have an increasing problem of providing patients with effective anti-biotics. Stuff like that.

Documentary makers are also not allowed in all places where they keep pigs. Farmers won't allow that.... Makes you wonder what they have to hide.

And when some contagious disease breaks out complete farms are wiped out for miles around. All the live stock is destroyed to prevent the disease from spreading.

That's the kind of stuff we are used to overhere.

[Heaven]

That's sad mogenblue!! That's why I don't want to eat meat, I don't want to support the killings of animals anymore for our own consumption. People can survive without eating meat. I mean it does taste good and that's why its so hard to stop eating it, :D that's going to be a temptation for me specially since the rest of my family eat meat. But I know its going to benefit my body.

[Gem]

Here in Holland we hear that the beaks of chickens are cut

The point of the beak is clipped when a chicken is less than a day old to prevent the birds from harming each other. They don't cut off the beak; that's not conducive to feeding.

off and live stock is injected with a cocktail of anti-biotics to prevent them from getting ill. But those anti-biotic cocktails make virusses immune in the long run so hospitals have an increasing problem of providing patients with effective anti-biotics. Stuff like that.

Documentary makers are also not allowed in all places where they keep pigs. Farmers won't allow that.... Makes you wonder what they have to hide.

And when some contagious disease breaks out complete farms are wiped out for miles around. All the live stock is destroyed to prevent the disease from spreading.

That's the kind of stuff we are used to overhere.

That's industry practice, and I'm pretty sure a place like Holland would be regarded to have 'high' industry standards. People want cheap, so the farmer has to be 'efficient'.

[Arcturus]

don't eat lots of fish though, Letterman - Jeremy Piven's Fish Story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tI2OI0fK_A

[mogenblue]

That's industry practice, and I'm pretty sure a place like Holland would be regarded to have 'high' industry standards. People want cheap, so the farmer has to be 'efficient'.

Yes, we do have high standards, but we don't live up to them. The Netherlands is the most polluted country of Europe. This is caused by the bio industry. A report on climate, environment and nature was published by the Natuur en Milieu organization in October 2011. Holland was compared with other European member states and it showed that in spite of being among the richest countries in Europe we protect our habitat much less then other countries. The Economist published an article about it: Dirty dikes (http://www.economist.com/node/21546053) .

Our minister of Health, Welfare and Sport, Edith Schippers, requested special attention for fighting antimicrobial resistance (http://www.immunovalley.nl/news-and-events/news/2013/09/18/international-collaboration-fighting-antimicrobial/) because drug-resistant bacteria are spreading in Europe (http://article.wn.com/view/2013/11/16/Drugresistant_bacteria_spreading_in_Europe/).
There is more to be found when you search for drug-resistant bacteria.

We have rules for everything and anything but we don't enforce them. This is caused by budget cuts in the past. Years ago our government decided to leave it up to the industry to regulate itself because we were forced to cut on budgets. It was believed that the industry would hold up to our standards but obviously that was an illusion.

A few months ago a report was published that showed dramatic situations in the meat processing industry. Disqualified meat that was transported over vague routes to be relabeled as proper meat. Meat infected with poop bacteria that ended up in our food chain. And lots of more things that I have forgotten about. Things like that are very common overhere but people just continue to eat meat. Appareantly they don't want hear or know about it because whatever happens, economy goes first and we will have our piece of meat on our plate every evening no matter what the cost may be...

[mogenblue]

That's sad mogenblue!! That's why I don't want to eat meat, I don't want to support the killings of animals anymore for our own consumption. People can survive without eating meat. I mean it does taste good and that's why its so hard to stop eating it, :D that's going to be a temptation for me specially since the rest of my family eat meat. But I know its going to benefit my body.

I agree it does taste good. I distinctly remember years ago eating a delicious greasy saucage with fried onions on a streetmarket. It doesn't have to be expensive to taste good. When I broke up with meat I did have some difficult months like when I passed a butchery and saw all that delicious meat displayed, waiting to find it's way to my watering mouth............ :D
I didn't give in. I knew it was better for my health and I was determined to get away from that annoying feel of hunger that constantly was inside me. Now I am glad I persisted. I really feel much better now. My body is at peace. Losing weight is much easier, life is even cheaper without meat. Much cheaper.

They can do all sorts of delicious things with meat. Things that really make your mouth water when you see it. But if people would shift their focus, shift their attention to meat alternatives they will find that just as delicious things can be done with plant based alternatives.
I am not going back down that road anymore. My health is too important for me. That is a very selfish but nevertheless very sound reason. My health improved a lot since I skipped meat and dairy.
And the situation with livestock is just spiralling out of control if you ask me.

To be honest: gaining weight is still as easy as ever. Rum and whisky are also vegan products you know... And there are about 1200 different whiskies on the planet. That is a long long way to go for me..... :)))))
But then again, we are part of an expanding universe. So basically it's a cosmic attitude.
So my vegan diet is therefore even more important for me.

[Heaven]

don't eat lots of fish though, Letterman - Jeremy Piven's Fish Story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tI2OI0fK_A

I do know that eating a lot of fish is not healthy either cause of the mercury. But what's healthy to eat?, I mean vegetables and fruits are contaminated with pesticides and I can go on and on with every food that's contaminated. There's always something, I'm just trying to at least eat what's a bit better. I guess!

[mogenblue]

There's always something

Too many nuts and oils make you fat as well.
Chocolate, cookies, applie pie, muffins. Enough temptations for a convinced vegan to go astray.

[Heaven]

Hey Mogenblue!! I know what you mean, I have already seen some improvements in my body after not eating meat and dairy for 2 weeks already! There are a lot of type of foods that I like and have no meat. My favorite dishes have fish in it! :) I'm a cookie junkie too, I love cookies! and other sweets!! Even thou they are very fattening cause of the sugar content, but I don't care, I couldn't stop eating them. I work out so a little bit of sugar wont harm me. I do know that Rum and whisky well alcohol overall can make you gain weight and are very bad for your liver too if you drink a lot! lol I don't think a little bit won't harm you thou! Cheers! :occasion14:

[mogenblue]

Cheers buddy :occasion14:

You don't have to change everything overnight. It doesn't even work that way. Everything goes step by step. Alcohol in moderation is great. I keep tight track of my weight and I exercise too. So when things get too much the cap goes on the bottle until my weight is under control again.

There is so much to enjoy. Just walk through the isles of your local supermarket and you are bombarded with all kinds of sweets, cakes and what not.
Overhere in Amsterdam there is a fastfood restaurant or food store at least every 50 yards. And the smell that comes out of those places...
I'm just human you know. I think I am doing great. Last month I lost 5,5 kg in one month. Last year it took me more then three months for that. So things do improve overtime. It just takes time.

My body keeps surprising me all the time.

[Heaven]

That's awesome that your losing weight mogenblue!! That's what's good about not eating meat and dairy. I have seen that I have lost some weight already. The only thing is that I been feeling a little weak and I don't know if that's normal?

[mogenblue]

Sometimes I feel I little weak too. But I consider that a good sign. Because that comes from a shortage of energy in your body. So if your body has too little energy it needs to get it from the fat layers.
It's a kind of tricky situation, because when you feel weak you are tempted to eat something to get it away. But that is just the thing you should not do, cause otherwise you don't lose weight. You have to go through it. It usually lasts no longer then 5 or 10 minutes or so and then you are ok again. Cause then your body got it from the fat.

It also helps to drink some water when you feel weak. Because your body needs water to transport everything through your vains. That usually helps me out.
You lose a lot of water through breathing and sweating. It's natural. So it's important to drink enough.
You can also use luke warm water and store it in a thermos bottle. Luke warm is much more comfortable to drink for your stomach then plain cold water. So if you think you are going to drink a lot luke warm would make it much easier.

Sometimes I can even feel my body 'picking' from the fat. That's weird and funny :icon_eek:

[Heaven]

I like water, but I can't drink luke water, I have tried it and I almost puke, lol. I like my water ice cold! I don't have a lot of fat, so what happens when you run out of fat, where does the body takes it from? I just don't want to pass out! I do hope its just a phase that goes away.

[mogenblue]

If you don't have a lot of fat you don't have a weight problem, bro. So then just grab something to eat, whatever you like best.
But if you have no problem with cold water then just drink it cold. My experience is probably personal that my stomach does better with luke warm water. Whatever it takes to keep you going.

If your body needs energy and cannot take it from the fat it will break down mucle tissue and use that for energy. I read somewhere that your body actually in first instance breaks down muscle tissue and only after that addresses the fat. Because it wants to save the fat for later when food is scarce. I'm not really sure if that is true.
Either way, you're not gonna die that easy. Takes a lot more for that...

How long does it last when you feel so weak? How do you get over it?

[Heaven]

If you don't have a lot of fat you don't have a weight problem, bro. So then just grab something to eat, whatever you like best.
But if you have no problem with cold water then just drink it cold. My experience is probably personal that my stomach does better with luke warm water. Whatever it takes to keep you going.

If your body needs energy and cannot take it from the fat it will break down mucle tissue and use that for energy. I read somewhere that your body actually in first instance breaks down muscle tissue and only after that addresses the fat. Because it wants to save the fat for later when food is scarce. I'm not really sure if that is true.
Either way, you're not gonna die that easy. Takes a lot more for that...

How long does it last when you feel so weak? How do you get over it?

I don't want to lose muscle tissue, I do want to get more tone and leaner. When I get weak it doesn't last long and I really don't do anything to get rid of it either. I don't get much rest during the day so probably that's why. I be going to the gym in the evening so I will see if I'm better or weaker. Its just 2 weeks of me not eating meat so I guess I need a little bit more time to see if it goes away.

[mogenblue]

Yes, two weeks is really short. When I stopped with dairy I started losing weight too without doing anything for it.
If you change your diet, make a significant change like no more dairy, you need time to adjust to the new situation. Your body needs time to adjust to the new situation and you yourself need to understand how your body reacts to the change in your diet.
Like, if you don't feel a crave to eat anymore you might be surprised about your body that it doesn't do that anymore.

In my situation, with a reduced weight I am in a luxuruous position to decide which way to go. Should I fill up myself with cakes and chocolate that are so cheap and readily available at the supermarket? Should I go for the more expensive and tastier cakes from a delicatessary? Or should I hold on and lose more weight to increase my sensitivity? I do want to increase my sensitivity, but when I do that I am confronted in the first place with the old condition programs from my body and mind that got me heavier in the first place. You understand? So if I seriously want to get leaner like you too, I have to go through old feel and think condition programs that I built up in the past myself.
Really, it's far more easy to grab a cookie and some chocolate..............
And I have such delicious rum in my cabinet............. ..... ....
but then again, I am no way in a hurry or so.
:smile:

[Badger1777]

People should just eat what they want, within reason. If people want to be vegan, vegetarian, omnivore (the default), carnivore, whatever, it is up to them.

I recognise that there are sometimes moral/ethical reasons behind someone's decision to follow a particular diet, sometimes there are health reasons, sometimes a bit of both. All fair enough.

But, in the interests of balance, I must throw a thought out there, mainly for those that choose to be vegetarians for ethical reasons. Lots of things that are ok for a vegetarian involve the slaughter of animals. Leather for shoes and bags and belts and such for example. A few people I've spoken to think that leather is a by-product of the meat industry, except that's not always the case. Some animals are reared for their hide, some for their meat, few these days for both.

We might also consider that by eating meat, we are ensuring the survival of the species of animal we eat, even though we eat individual animals within that species. If there was no demand, they would not be farmed, and the land they occupied would be put to another use. Personally I don't see that as a bad thing, but some might.

There are many good arguments in favour of being a vegetarian, both health related and ethical. My favourite good reason is about the environment. Our great demand for meat means a great demand for animals, = great demand for animal feed, = large chunks of diverse rainforest stripped bare and turned to soya bean plantations for animal feed. Then there's the small matter of bovine farts and burps. They are full of methane, a gas estimated to be 30x more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2, and between the bovine expulsions and the chemicals used on the land, the fuel used by the lorries shipping livestock and meat around, aggriculture is now, I think, ranked second in the list of industry types that have the biggest negative impact on the environment. I can't remember the figure, but its some crazy factor, a cow will use something like 50 times as many calories to reach maturity, as can be taken from its meat as food. So in other words, if we were all ate nothing but beef, we'd need something like 50 times as much land to raise food as would be the case if we all ate only beans.

Just some food for thought (I'd I'd double check the figures I quoted, they are from memory and could be a bit out).

I should point out that I'm not preaching or judging by the way. I personally eat whatever I like, but mostly fruit and veg, then fish, and lastly a small amount of meat.

[mogenblue]

I agree with you Badger. Your reason about the environment is very sound and sensible. My favorite reason is the individual health of people.

I think the importance of meat for a healthy body is very overstated and overestimated. But a daily piece of meat on the plate has become such a part of culture in the rich countries that it is very hard to change that habit. People hate it if something seems to be taken away from them what they enjoy so much. I read it often enough in the comments in related topics in online newspapers here in Holland or on other social media.

[Heaven]

Badger1777 - Thanks for bringing that up!! Its a pretty interesting point. I learn something new that I didn't know, that makes me feel better to not eat meat.

mogenblue - I worked out yesterday afternoon and I felt good I didn't feel weak at all, I been taking my protein intake thru other foods and plenty carbs for energy. Its all good! :) Plus I talked to one of the trainers and he told me that there are body builders that don't eat meat and still manager to work out. We really don't need meat, I think people just eat meat for satisfaction just cause it taste so good!! :D

[mogenblue]

I read that eggs and (cow)milk have the highest protein quality. For plant based protein soy scores best and wheat lowest. Soy scores nearly as good as meat from cows. Nearly as good.

I think you should also take into account that plant based protein is much easier to digest then animal based protein. Plant based protein finds it's way into your body much faster. I find that a strong argument in favor of plant based proteins.

[Badger1777]

I read that eggs and (cow)milk have the highest protein quality. For plant based protein soy scores best and wheat lowest. Soy scores nearly as good as meat from cows. Nearly as good.

Egg whites are almost 100% protein.

There is protein in milk, but you'd have to drink a lot of it to get what you need.

I wouldn't touch soya with a barge pole. Most of it is grown in places where regulations haven't quite been even heard of yet. You also need to be a little careful with soya even if it hasn't been sprayed to within an inch of its life with nasty chemicals. Soya beans, along with many other pulses (beans and peas), are quite high in phytoestrogen. That's basically a chemical that has a similar effect on humans to oestrogen. We all have oestrogen (males and females alike - though less of it in males), but we don't want to push the levels up too much. The amount you'd get from it if it was part of a balanced diet would be nothing to worry about, but strange things might happen if one was to suddenly develop a passion for nothing but soya and other phytoestrogen rich foods.

[Heaven]

For protein intake I been eating eggs, protein shakes, I drink almond milk but that doesn't have much protein. I completely forgot about the egg whites, for sure I be getting that too.

[Arcturus]

I do know that eating a lot of fish is not healthy either cause of the mercury. But what's healthy to eat?, I mean vegetables and fruits are contaminated with pesticides and I can go on and on with every food that's contaminated. There's always something, I'm just trying to at least eat what's a bit better. I guess!

always something i agree. i suppose then its about minimising exposure. some fish, bottom feeders i believe, carry alot more mercury. even then youd have to eat a fair bit. of course all vegetariains should eat eat organically due to conventional agriculture devistating affects on animals, and plants; fauna, flora etc. i think organic, with meat eating, is probably more helpfull to animals than non-organic vegetarian.

[Heaven]

I eat more tilapia, tuna, cod and salmon once in a while. I still don't know which one carries more mercury. I been eating fish at least 4 times a week, I don't know if that's too much or too little!?

[muileag]

I eat more tilapia, tuna, cod and salmon once in a while. I still don't know which one carries more mercury. I been eating fish at least 4 times a week, I don't know if that's too much or too little!?

Also, make sure you're eating "wild caught" fish and not "farm raised."

[Heaven]

I know what you mean muileag! I learned that a couple of months ago!!! Big mistake I was doing!!

[Squatchit]

Also, make sure you're eating "wild caught" fish and not "farm raised."
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that, despite being religious about buying eggs from free range chickens.

Having recently become a vegetarian and shifted to a pescatarian, it's a minefield out there. Meat-flavoured crisps are vegetarian and cheese-flavoured crisps aren't. Eh? Certain cheeses I particularly love are now no longer an option.

How vegans get on must be a full-time job.

[muileag]

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that, despite being religious about buying eggs from free range chickens.

Having recently become a vegetarian and shifted to a pescatarian, it's a minefield out there. Meat-flavoured crisps are vegetarian and cheese-flavoured crisps aren't. Eh? Certain cheeses I particularly love are now no longer an option.

How vegans get on must be a full-time job. I got quite an education while I was shopping/cooking for my vegan son while he was in high school. It was tough to keep it vegan AND clean. He went back to vegetarianism after a few years (this was during the time I was eating vegetarian) but he's now an omnivore.

No matter what foods you're including in your diet...it's getting tough out there to find nutritious and chemical-free foods, especially if you're feeding a family on a strict budget.

[innerlight]

Having recently become a vegetarian and shifted to a pescatarian, it's a minefield out there. Meat-flavoured crisps are vegetarian and cheese-flavoured crisps aren't. Eh? Certain cheeses I particularly love are now no longer an option.

How vegans get on must be a full-time job.


I thought dairy was a vegetarian accepted food? I'd see it not being allowed for Vegan.

One of the hardest things about having a vegetarian or vegan food style is finding things to eat when out places.

[Tobi]

Vegan 'eating-out' can be a bit tricky, unless there's a vegetarian/vegan restaurant around. And some places have some brilliant ones!
But I've found even my local fish and chip shop do a vegan bean burger and chips so that's handy! If you don't eat out often even baked beans and chips with a side salad or some veg. will do as a one-off now and again. It might not be on the menu, but many places will make that up for you if you ask.

[mogenblue]

Many restaurants here in Amsterdam now also have some vegetarian dishes, although I don't know if they also have vegan dishes. It does get more popular here.
There is also a vegetarian/vegan fastfood chain called Maoz. I've been there once and liked what they served.

Personally I am not so very strict on my diet. If my neighbours would offer me something that includes meat, like recently during the worldcup, I just accept it and enjoy the offering. :hug3:

[mogenblue]

No matter what foods you're including in your diet...it's getting tough out there to find nutritious and chemical-free foods, especially if you're feeding a family on a strict budget.

I found dried beans really a solution to cut down on my budget. And making my own milk from beans and nuts also saves a lot of money and keeps it chemical-free. But I don't have to feed a whole family. I don't have to deal with the needs of others.

Something like Nutella may not be considered chemical-free too. That does make it tough when you have a whole family.

[Squatchit]

I thought dairy was a vegetarian accepted food? I'd see it not being allowed for Vegan.

Hiya inner

Some cheeses have 'rennet' added during the process, which is an animal product.

https://www.vegsoc.org/cheese

[innerlight]

Hiya inner

Some cheeses have 'rennet' added during the process, which is an animal product.

https://www.vegsoc.org/cheese (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vegsoc.org%2Fchee se)

That is interesting.. I wonder if it's stuff like this that makes certain cheeses harder to digest for me.. Guess I never really thought about what went into making cheese, cheese.

[Heaven]

Cheese is very fattening too, so if you are trying to lose weight, cheese is the worst!

[mogenblue]

Cheese is very fattening too, so if you are trying to lose weight, cheese is the worst!

I fully agree with that.

[Heaven]

And making my own milk from beans and nuts also saves a lot of money and keeps it chemical-free.

That's awesome that you make your own milk from beans and nuts!! I wonder what it taste like! :smile:

[mogenblue]

Oh, It's a completely different experience from what you buy in the shops.

Usually you separate the milk from the nuts or beans to get a clear white milk. But I find that such a waste of the pulp. So I keep the pulp in the milk and also add some more stuff to it like sesame and flax seeds, cocoa nibs, oats which acts as a binder, sugar and also some vanilla essence for extra flavor.

It results in a rich smoothie like drink. It's delicious. I always warm it up in the micro wave because I like my milk warm. It's just great stuff. And it saves me between 60 cents and 2 euro per liter compared to what you buy in the shops; for straight milk alone, without the extra ingredients.

... And you don't have to carry all those containers with milk around anymore. Only the nuts and beans. Preserving the environment you know. :tongue:

[Heaven]

That's great and it sounds delicious mogenblue!!! plus best part no preservatives!!

[mogenblue]

Right, you control what goes in to it. You can store it for two days in the fridge or so. No problem. The oats will make it a little thicker when it settles in.

But I have to admit, almond milk does not have that much taste from itself. Adding the extra stuff and mix it together really adds more taste to it. I mean, you don't taste that much almond.
I'm thinking of adding some sesame oil next time. That has a very pungeant nut taste. Just give it a try. :smile:

[Heaven]

Hope the sesame oil works!! :D

[mogenblue]

Nut smoothie update

Well, I tried the sesame oil this morning in my hazelnut milk.

First I had a glass of just hazelnut milk, which is hazelnut, sesame and flax seeds, cocoa nibs and oats, and a pinch of salt. Low calorie sweetener.
That had more then enough taste by itself. It was still warm from the machine. All the pulp was scooped back in the milk.
It's like being saved by heaven.

Then I tried a second glass with some sesame oil drops. The bottle has a cap in the mouth with a very tiny opening so you just add it drop by drop.
I am still not so sure wether it made it better or not. It made it more oily and there was indeed some particular sesame/nut taste present. But I don't know if it combines so well with the overall sweet taste of the milk-smoothie.

Actually I bought the oil for home made peanut butter. I think I will stick to that and it's probably great for salads too. I think it will be empty soon enough anyway. :wink:

[Heaven]

I'm glad you enjoyed it mogenblue! I was wondering how good mixing oil with milk would had tasted.

[mogenblue]

Thank you deyheaven.

Oil mixes fine with nutmilk. Nuts already contain oil from their own. Same goes for soymilk. When it settles overnight it usually separates, so you have to stir it up to mix it again.

[Heaven]

I had no idea how hard this was going to be till today I was at a BBQ party this afternoon and everything they served was meat! Ohh.. and it smelled so good! My mouth was getting watery. But I did manage to eat other stuff that had no meat. I'm very proud of myself for not giving into temptation in a situation like that. I survived my first BBQ without eating meat! :D

[mogenblue]

I had no idea how hard this was going to be till today I was at a BBQ party this afternoon and everything they served was meat! Ohh.. and it smelled so good! My mouth was getting watery. But I did manage to eat other stuff that had no meat. I'm very proud of myself for not giving into temptation in a situation like that. I survived my first BBQ without eating meat! :D

Congratulations, girl. :D
When I passed a butchery in the beginning it was difficult for me too. I saw all that nice meat displayed and thought, boy, it's been such a long time, it must be really tasty to have some right now. Extra tasty since it had been so long already.
I didn't give in either.

But when it's happening right under your nose like with a BBC it's even more difficult. The smell.
Great job!

[Heaven]

Thanks mogenblue!! I like having control of myself! :)

[Natasharabbit]

My brother was a big meat eater, though after finding out about inhumane factory farms where the majority of animals are kept and the cruel treatment of gentle bobby calves in the dairy industry, he knew he couldn't support those practices anymore.
He now has changed his diet. Though he loves seafood. He stills eats fish.

[annabelle239]

My brother was a big meat eater, though after finding out about inhumane factory farms where the majority of animals are kept and the cruel treatment of gentle bobby calves in the dairy industry, he knew he couldn't support those practices anymore.
He now has changed his diet. Though he loves seafood. He stills eats fish.

I find most people are very ignorant about what is really going on. My brother is very offended and saying animals are supposed to be eaten blah blah blah but then claims the animals aren't tortured then says not all farms are like that...except you know.99% of them are. People just really don't know and have been deeply conditioned. So many societal conditions people have and and this is one of many.

[mogenblue]

People just really don't know and have been deeply conditioned. So many societal conditions people have and and this is one of many.

I agree with that. I think it's very difficult to change that.

[jenriggs]

I think it may be called a flexitarian. I eat fish and eat cage free eggs where the hens have enough space to make nests.

[annabelle239]

I agree with that. I think it's very difficult to change that.
I kind of think things happen in the right time,too. I believe i became vegan right in the perfect time that was for me,when i was ready. Because,when i did,despite how unexpected it was..it was soo easy and natural transition. I think had i tried another time,i wonder if it would've been more difficult.

[Morpheus]

I'm so sorry, but I am bugged by people that call themselves a
vegetarian and still eat something with a face.

What that is is a person that doesn't eat red meat.

When I was a vegetarian for 15 years I didn't eat a brownie if it
was made with an egg.

I don't even understand how someone could kill and eat flesh and say that word
about themselves.

No judgment on what people eat...just the misnomer.

It's a free world of course, and people ought to live acording to the dictates of their conscience, but, it is a misnomer about the lack of sentience and awareness in life forms "without a face", regarding plants.

It is about the nature of this material construct and world in which we find ourselves. The underlying foundation also of everything in the world, being Consciousness, and Light.

From, The Washington Post:

"Plants can’t talk, you say?
Well, according to the documentary “What Plants Talk About,” (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fvideo.pbs.org%2525252Fv ideo%2525252F2338524462) flowers, trees and seedlings may not have brains or mouths, but they have other ways of communicating — to cooperate, to compete and ultimately to survive."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6/2013/03/25/351f7886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.washingtonpost.com% 2525252Fnational%2525252Fhealth-science%2525252Fwhat-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6%2525252F2013%2525252F03%2525252F25%2525252F351f7 886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html)

[annabelle239]

It's a free world of course, and people ought to live acording to the dictates of their conscience, but, it is a misnomer about the lack of sentience and awareness in life forms "without a face", regarding plants.

It is about the nature of this material construct and world in which we find ourselves. The underlying foundation also of everything in the world, being Consciousness, and Light.

From, The Washington Post:

"Plants can’t talk, you say?
Well, according to the documentary “What Plants Talk About,” (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fvideo.pbs.org%2525252Fv ideo%2525252F2338524462) flowers, trees and seedlings may not have brains or mouths, but they have other ways of communicating — to cooperate, to compete and ultimately to survive."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6/2013/03/25/351f7886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.washingtonpost.com% 2525252Fnational%2525252Fhealth-science%2525252Fwhat-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6%2525252F2013%2525252F03%2525252F25%2525252F351f7 886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html)

plants don't have souls. animals do. do you ever hear stories of plants in the afterlife or reincarnating? All things respond to love. Google Dr.Emoto rice experiment. People who compare plants to animals are ignorant, I hope one day all the people who compare animals to plants wake up and feel really stupid because comparing animals to plants has got to be one of the most ignorant stupidest things i've ever heard. Funny,it's pretty much only people who can't admit to the wrongness of consuming another soul that like to bring this up and the occasional vegan/vegetarian who has fallen prey to the manipulation that will question it. Stop being manipulated people. There's a news study for anything. Go on and follow your news studies to feel educated. It's not like news studies haven't manipulated the masses much already. Seriously,i got an email from a beauty media today claiming most everyone has halitosis! So,people will want to buy their vegan mouthwashes. For years people have been manipulated into thinking drinking cows puss is normal and healthy. Lol. Man,humans are a funny bunch for sure.

[annabelle239]

Again,if you eat fish you are a pescatarian. Your choice. But,own it. Personally,i am more concerned with farm animals then fish. That's my bias. I am not a pescatarian but it's the farm animals products i am most concerned by. Even a good friend who is now a halfway vegetarian on the way to becoming full vegetarian soon scoffed when i said what if they become a pescatarian then vegetarian to ease into the transition saying what's the difference between fish and animals. Good point,i just personally associate farm animals as more sentient then fish and don't hear as much about the disgusting twisted things with how fish are killed. I think pescatarian could be great because it could bring you closer to being vegetarian and unfortunately some people for some reason are so addicted to their animal products that they have to do things in steps. i'm not happy about it,but a start is a start.
Killing pigs and cows and chickens will probably always make me more sad then fish.

[Heaven]

Again,if you eat fish you are a pescatarian. Your choice. But,own it. Personally,i am more concerned with farm animals then fish. That's my bias. I am not a pescatarian but it's the farm animals products i am most concerned by. Even a good friend who is now a halfway vegetarian on the way to becoming full vegetarian soon scoffed when i said what if they become a pescatarian then vegetarian to ease into the transition saying what's the difference between fish and animals. Good point,i just personally associate farm animals as more sentient then fish and don't hear as much about the disgusting twisted things with how fish are killed. I think pescatarian could be great because it could bring you closer to being vegetarian and unfortunately some people for some reason are so addicted to their animal products that they have to do things in steps. i'm not happy about it,but a start is a start.
Killing pigs and cows and chickens will probably always make me more sad then fish.

I couldn't ever be a vegetarian, I just love seafood too much! I just prefer to eat shrimp, clams, fish instead of chicken, pigs or cow. I think they suffer less in the killing process. Its just sad how these farms do to these animals for human consumption. I don't want to be part of it. I'm doing my best not to consume dairy products either.

[annabelle239]

I couldn't ever be a vegetarian, I just love seafood too much! I just prefer to eat shrimp, clams, fish instead of chicken, pigs or cow. I think they suffer less in the killing process. Its just sad how these farms do to these animals for human consumption. I don't want to be part of it. I'm doing my best not to consume dairy products either.


I actually never liked the taste of seafood. as a child when fishsticks were for dinner i was always not wanting to eat it. hardest thing for me to give up was cheese. but cheese has drugs in it so that's why it's so addictive.i still get occasional cheese cravings. I've found cheeseless pizza made with vegan dough is one way to help with cheese cravings which sounds weird but somehow for me it helps. lol.i say just became a pescatarian. follow your heart and see what it's guiding you to do. maybe you are just meant to become pescatarian right now. i never in my life thought i'd become vegan btw. life is full of surprises.i thought i'd just always be vegetarian and that was one of the easiest things for me to do.i never liked meat much.

[Morpheus]

plants don't have souls. animals do. do you ever hear stories of plants in the afterlife or reincarnating? All things respond to love. Google Dr.Emoto rice experiment. People who compare plants to animals are ignorant, I hope one day all the people who compare animals to plants wake up and feel really stupid because comparing animals to plants has got to be one of the most ignorant stupidest things i've ever heard. Funny,it's pretty much only people who can't admit to the wrongness of consuming another soul that like to bring this up and the occasional vegan/vegetarian who has fallen prey to the manipulation that will question it. Stop being manipulated people. There's a news study for anything. Go on and follow your news studies to feel educated. It's not like news studies haven't manipulated the masses much already. Seriously,i got an email from a beauty media today claiming most everyone has halitosis! So,people will want to buy their vegan mouthwashes. For years people have been manipulated into thinking drinking cows puss is normal and healthy. Lol. Man,humans are a funny bunch for sure.

Wow. Objective post, "ana". No subjectivity there.

Anna, your perspectives are a feel good perception and mindset, but it doesn't reflect the various research, the findings we've come to now, in the 21st century, and involving the data from various direction.
Not just the research involving horticulture and plants.

The underlying and fundamental situation of the physical world, and all life therein, is Consciousness, and, "Light".

Is it more true that we have a soul? Or, that we abide in a Soul? Which is the greater Truth?

(What is real?)

Meanwhile, not wanting to contribute to suffering in the world, though, is not a bad way to live.

http://www.starstuffs.com/physcon/science.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.starstuffs.com%2525 252Fphyscon%2525252Fscience.html)

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - Einstein

Concluded nearly a century ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6/2013/03/25/351f7886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.washingtonpost.c om%25252Fnational%25252Fhealth-science%25252Fwhat-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6%25252F2013%25252F03%25252F25%25252F351f7886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html)

[Hawk]

I want to be a vegetarian or vegan, but I don't want to give up on sea food, I love sea food! Can I still be a vegetarian, I mean I won't be eating meat. Is fish consider meat? Fish is good for you.

A fish is an animal, so you cannot call yourself a vegetarian and eat fish unless you don't mind being constantly corrected. By definition vegetarians do not eat the flesh of any animal, but do eat things like dairy and eggs if they choose to.

You want to search up the term pescatarian. That definition is reserved for individuals who eat a vegetarian diet but add in sea food. You will get a lot less flack from vegetarians if you simply refer to yourself as pescatarian.

If you're stuck on the term vegetarian/vegan, I'd look more at why that identity is an important one for you over how much you can bend the rules and get away with it (there is nothing wrong with that btw - it's not a criticism I'm just a straight talker).

[Morpheus]

Or... "those pesky - tarians"

Meanwhile... do Clams have a face? Or Oysters, or Scallops? So, it can get down to splitting hairs, seems.

Nevertheless...

[annabelle239]

Wow. Objective post, "ana". No subjectivity there.

Anna, your perspectives are a feel good perception and mindset, but it doesn't reflect the various research, the findings we've come to now, in the 21st century, and involving the data from various direction.
Not just the research involving horticulture and plants.

The underlying and fundamental situation of the physical world, and all life therein, is Consciousness, and, "Light".

Is it more true that we have a soul? Or, that we abide in a Soul? Which is the greater Truth?

(What is real?)

Meanwhile, not wanting to contribute to suffering in the world, though, is not a bad way to live.

http://www.starstuffs.com/physcon/science.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.starstuffs.com%2525 252Fphyscon%2525252Fscience.html)

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - Einstein

Concluded nearly a century ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6/2013/03/25/351f7886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.washingtonpost.c om%25252Fnational%25252Fhealth-science%25252Fwhat-plants-talk-about-on-pbs-geology-tours-at-virginia-winery-on-april-6%25252F2013%25252F03%25252F25%25252F351f7886-8be2-11e2-9838-d62f083ba93f_story.html)


in my subjective reality dream world i live in,comparing to animals to plants is psycho. Not to mention ,you have completely missed where i said i could care less what science and research says......Yes,i think plants are energy and if you for example rip plants to destroy them that is sort of bad energy but plants want to be eaten. All of energy respond to positive vibrations. it's actually quite amazing..when you raise your vibration,all of reality seems to be singing to you..

[annabelle239]

Or... "those pesky - tarians"

Meanwhile... do Clams have a face? Or Oysters, or Scallops? So, it can get down to splitting hairs, seems.

Nevertheless...
i have no idea what scallops are. my passion is farm animals. comparing farm animals to plants is outrageous. nevertheless you should follow what you feel is right. and,i don't think any healthy person could visit a factory farm and be ok with eating meat ever again. now,beyond factory farming,if you kill a fish yourself and feel ok eating,that is you.i couldn't but that is me. it's about waking up and seeing what is and not making excuses.

[Morpheus]

Scallops, Clams, and Mussels too, anna. All shellfish.


Anna, you're a sensitive and caring person, but the situation is about our perception of what "Life" is. Compared to the Truth.

In the wild, savagery takes place every day and all the time. My own Cat left the legs and fur of an an animal in the garage recently. Squirrel or Bunny? Couldn't tell.
What else occurred that night? That day?

I've lost a poodle from our yard, I believe to one of the many Coyotes which roam here.
Meanwhile again, what is the true nature of Life?
Is it merely the material manifestation in the physical world? This is about Truth, and objectivity. Apart from ego and the survival instinct.

What is the nature of this "Construct" in which we find ourselves?

This is relevant... Time and space and gravity are all interrelated.
The below about time, also, is something we see repeated in the many NDE accounts, available for reading, by those who've died and returned to share

"We review the idea, due to Einstein, Eddington, Hoyle and Ballard, that time is a subjective label, whose primary purpose is to order events, perhaps in a higher-dimensional universe. In this approach, all moments in time exist simultaneously, but they are ordered to create the illusion of an unfolding experience by some physical mechanism. This, in the language of relativity, may be connected to a hypersurface in a world that extends beyond spacetime.
Death in such a scenario may be merely a phase change."

Paul S. Wesson, Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
Subjects: General Physics (physics.gen-ph); General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc)
Cite as: arXiv:0905.0119v1 [physics.gen-ph]

Einstein had stated that in this new understanding of Physics there is no room for both the "Field" and matter. That, "the Field is the only reality."

Parhamensa Yogananda ~ Author of, "Autobiography of a Yogi"...
"Death is only an experience in which you are meant to learn a great lesson. You cannot die."

You can ignore the recent research conclusions on Plant Life, if you choose, but it nevertheless exists. It is thorough, and valid.
The underlying situation of everything in the material world is Consciousness, and Light.
This includes Plants also.

[annabelle239]

Scallops, Clams, and Mussels too, anna. All shellfish.


Anna, you're a sensitive and caring person, but the situation is about our perception of what "Life" is. Compared to the Truth.

In the wild, savagery takes place every day and all the time. My own Cat left the legs and fur of an an animal in the garage recently. Squirrel or Bunny? Couldn't tell.
What else occurred that night? That day?

I've lost a poodle from our yard, I believe to one of the many Coyotes which roam here.
Meanwhile again, what is the true nature of Life?
Is it merely the material manifestation in the physical world? This is about Truth, and objectivity. Apart from ego and the survival instinct.

What is the nature of this "Construct" in which we find ourselves?

This is relevant... Time and space and gravity are all interrelated.
The below about time, also, is something we see repeated in the many NDE accounts, available for reading, by those who've died and returned to share

"We review the idea, due to Einstein, Eddington, Hoyle and Ballard, that time is a subjective label, whose primary purpose is to order events, perhaps in a higher-dimensional universe. In this approach, all moments in time exist simultaneously, but they are ordered to create the illusion of an unfolding experience by some physical mechanism. This, in the language of relativity, may be connected to a hypersurface in a world that extends beyond spacetime.
Death in such a scenario may be merely a phase change."

Paul S. Wesson, Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
Subjects: General Physics (physics.gen-ph); General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc)
Cite as: arXiv:0905.0119v1 [physics.gen-ph]

Einstein had stated that in this new understanding of Physics there is no room for both the "Field" and matter. That, "the Field is the only reality."

Parhamensa Yogananda ~ Author of, "Autobiography of a Yogi"...
"Death is only an experience in which you are meant to learn a great lesson. You cannot die."

You can ignore the recent research conclusions on Plant Life, if you choose, but it nevertheless exists. It is thorough, and valid.
The underlying situation of everything in the material world is Consciousness, and Light.
This includes Plants also.

cats don't know any better. humans do. also,i still think factory farming is far,far crueler then a cat playing with a mouse and killing it. cats are certaintly vicious creatures,yet also spiritual. we can learn a lot from cats. nevertheless,a cat would never invent a factory farm. or work on one methodically. cats have their lessons they need to learn and their soul path. humans have ours.i really do believe all the cruelty to animals exists as the ultimate walking back to home(love.). We are meant to coexist with nature and other beings yet we don't just dominate it,we completely disrespect it. This isn't just the occasional mistake we make either. We are here to learn after all. I think someday this planet will be vegan and we will have to live with we have done. Just like sexism and racism,etc,etc. Except animals,who are often much more purer then us,seem to be the last thing,which is a shame. We disrespect animals so entirely much. It's one thing to not understand animals and to make mistakes. It's another to know better,yet keep being cruel. No one,and i mean no one needs to eat animals to be healthy. So,everytime you do,you are choosing an animals sadistic suffering for your appetite. One day,we will look back on eating animals as barbaric and crazy. Until then,i believe there is a special,special place for animals for this intense lesson they are giving us humans on the walk back to love. I grew up with a meat eating family,but somewhere along the line as a pre-teen girl something struck me as why do we have to eat meat and how cruel it was. i never did like meat much and thought about becoming vegetarian and then i did. maybe i'm more special then i think. i became vegetarian really young with parents who told me i couldn't at first,but i did it anyways. I didn't wait until college or even high school. I'd just make my sandwiches with just cheese and mayannoise and was quite content with it. I don't intend to ever have kids but if i ever did,i'd without a doubt raise them vegetarian at the least. At this point,if i were to adopt a cat,i don't think i'd make them a vegetarian cat. lol. i don't think they'd be too happy about that. however,i would maybe look into different meat options. if everyone gave up meat,and all the cats in the world still ate it,i mean come on,factory farming wouldn't need to exist just to produce cat food.

[Natasharabbit]

This is how the majority of sensitive, gentle farm animals around the world are treated. They are severely confined in metal cages in factory prisons. They experience a life of immense suffering.
If you would like to make a difference and be their voice, please go to the 'Make it Possible' campaign, watch the short animation and share it! United together for a good cause we can make a kinder earth possible :)
http://www.makeitpossible.com/

[Morpheus]

cats don't know any better. humans do. also,i still think factory farming is far,far crueler then a cat playing with a mouse and killing it. cats are certaintly vicious creatures,yet also spiritual. we can learn a lot from cats. nevertheless,a cat would never invent a factory farm. or work on one methodically. cats have their lessons they need to learn and their soul path. humans have ours.i really do believe all the cruelty to animals exists as the ultimate walking back to home(love.). We are meant to coexist with nature and other beings yet we don't just dominate it,we completely disrespect it. This isn't just the occasional mistake we make either. We are here to learn after all. I think someday this planet will be vegan and we will have to live with we have done. Just like sexism and racism,etc,etc. Except animals,who are often much more purer then us,seem to be the last thing,which is a shame. We disrespect animals so entirely much. It's one thing to not understand animals and to make mistakes. It's another to know better,yet keep being cruel. No one,and i mean no one needs to eat animals to be healthy. So,everytime you do,you are choosing an animals sadistic suffering for your appetite. One day,we will look back on eating animals as barbaric and crazy. Until then,i believe there is a special,special place for animals for this intense lesson they are giving us humans on the walk back to love. I grew up with a meat eating family,but somewhere along the line as a pre-teen girl something struck me as why do we have to eat meat and how cruel it was. i never did like meat much and thought about becoming vegetarian and then i did. maybe i'm more special then i think. i became vegetarian really young with parents who told me i couldn't at first,but i did it anyways. I didn't wait until college or even high school. I'd just make my sandwiches with just cheese and mayannoise and was quite content with it. I don't intend to ever have kids but if i ever did,i'd without a doubt raise them vegetarian at the least. At this point,if i were to adopt a cat,i don't think i'd make them a vegetarian cat. lol. i don't think they'd be too happy about that. however,i would maybe look into different meat options. if everyone gave up meat,and all the cats in the world still ate it,i mean come on,factory farming wouldn't need to exist just to produce cat food.

You make good points anna.

Human nature is such though, that while it is deemed fine to farm cattle and sheep and the like, we find it, in the more developed countries anyway, appalling to think about dogs, cats, and apes also being caged and farmed.

[Hawk]

i still think factory farming is far,far crueler then a cat playing with a mouse and killing it. cats are certaintly vicious creatures,yet also spiritual.

Hi annabelle239,

I think the really important point you're making here is about how out of balance we are with the natural world. Our farming of animals is not only unnatural, it's also destroying the planet. The Amazon is being destroyed at a very rapid rate to make more and more room for livestock farming. The Amazon is a massive source of clean air and atmospheric cleansing for our planet (not even from a spiritual perspective but from a hard science perspective!), and we're taking that away from ourselves and every other living creature here. Cats and other animals are still (at least more so) in balance than we are. One of the main reasons I choose to limit my meat intake is for this reason of imbalance that we are creating in how we raise and manufacture animals intended for consumption. There is also the reality that I would have an emotionally difficult time killing and preparing an animal for my own consumption. I'm sure if I had to do that I could, but if I absolutely had to for survival I would assume I would be in a situation that would be more in balance with the natural world.

On the other hand, I do agree with an argument I have heard that plants are also living beings that vegetarians/vegans kill for their consumption (for those of you that believe plants have spirits, that point begins to make sense rapidly). My response to this, for now, is that farming and manufacturing a plant-based diet is more cost-effective and less environmentally damaging than meat production.

[Hawk]

I just prefer to eat shrimp, clams, fish instead of chicken, pigs or cow. I think they suffer less in the killing process.

Unless I am a shrimp, clam, or fish I do not know how much they suffer when killed. If I am not a plant, I do not know how much a plant suffers when it is killed.

[mogenblue]

I don't want to cause a fuzz or anything but I have read some things about the emotional and spiritual life of plants and trees. They do have a soul and they too have an evolution to follow.

I have learned that they are meant to be consumed and that they are very well aware of that. They don't feel pain in the way that we do, or experience it in the same way, I'm not sure of that. But they do have emotions. So your behaviour towards them does have an impact on them. They appreciate love just as much as we do.

They know they are supposed to be eaten because the other moving creatures would not be able to evolve without them.
That is how it has been going on for millions and millions of years. Should that be wrong all of a sudden when we reach a certain level of consciousness at this point in time?

[Hawk]

I don't want to cause a fuzz or anything but I have read some things about the emotional and spiritual life of plants and trees. They do have a soul and they too have an evolution to follow.

I have learned that they are meant to be consumed and that they are very well aware of that. They don't feel pain in the way that we do, or experience it in the same way, I'm not sure of that. But they do have emotions. So your behaviour towards them does have an impact on them. They appreciate love just as much as we do.

They know they are supposed to be eaten because the other moving creatures would not be able to evolve without them.
That is how it has been going on for millions and millions of years. Should that be wrong all of a sudden when we reach a certain level of consciousness at this point in time?

What you say makes a lot of sense to me.

[Heaven]

Unless I am a shrimp, clam, or fish I do not know how much they suffer when killed. If I am not a plant, I do not know how much a plant suffers when it is killed.

I have thought about it, I think mammals suffer more in the killing process than any other species on earth. That's why I don't want to eat meat. I don't think a clams or plants have the capacity or intelligence to ponder why am going to eat it, or why someone took it out of their living environment or what's going to happen to the clam after that. If I poke a clam, I'm not going to hear the clam scream (help!!) :D lol I'm joking please don't get offended. In general we really don't know. But I do know Clams are very healthy for your body.

[Heaven]

I don't want to cause a fuzz or anything but I have read some things about the emotional and spiritual life of plants and trees. They do have a soul and they too have an evolution to follow.

I have learned that they are meant to be consumed and that they are very well aware of that. They don't feel pain in the way that we do, or experience it in the same way, I'm not sure of that. But they do have emotions. So your behaviour towards them does have an impact on them. They appreciate love just as much as we do.

They know they are supposed to be eaten because the other moving creatures would not be able to evolve without them.
That is how it has been going on for millions and millions of years. Should that be wrong all of a sudden when we reach a certain level of consciousness at this point in time?

I was going to say if you don't consume plants either cause they have emotions, soul or feelings then you starve! But I like your explanation in regards to plants. I least I don't feel guilty! :smile:

[mogenblue]

Are you sure you don't even feel a little guilty? Poking those poor defenseless little clams..........

[mogenblue]

I was going to say if you don't consume plants either cause they have emotions, soul or feelings then you starve! But I like your explanation in regards to plants. I least I don't feel guilty! :smile:

I think some people really take it over the top with compassion and care for other life.
You should always be aware of the perspective, of where you came from and how many millions of years you are under way already. And just how short ago it probably is that some people made the transition to no more animal food.

We are all part of a very big plan and life needs food for growth and to evolve. It's part of the design. Why would food taste so good if it wasn't meant to be eaten?

[mogenblue]

Except for clams of course.

[Gem]

More giggles on seafood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aL9qqWRm7E

[Morpheus]

Well, saying that plants have a soul ought to make one consider whether physical/organic life has a soul, or that it all resides in Soul. - Spirit.

For people who haven't done so, you ought to look up the research, either on YouTube, or other, "The Secret Life of Plants".

Meanwhile, again, also consider what the visible and organic world is, with regard to a greater Reality. A true nature and situation of Life.

[Heaven]

More giggles on seafood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aL9qqWRm7E


This was pretty funny Gem!!! lol

[Faith33]

This was pretty funny Gem!!! lol

Hehe...I take it this guy isn't into seafood...:D

The worst seafood joke ever: "Hey, you like seafood?" and if you dare say yes, the prankster's mouthful of 'chewed' food opens!

fell for it twice! lol....:cool:

[Heaven]

Hehe...I take it this guy isn't into seafood...:D

The worst seafood joke ever: "Hey, you like seafood?" and if you dare say yes, the prankster's mouthful of 'chewed' food opens!

fell for it twice! lol....:cool:

:D My stepkids do that to me all the time and of course they get me all the time cause I like seafood! :D