Judaism and homosexuality

[Fairfre]

I am quite ignorant of Judaism ,so please excuse me if this sounds a daft question.
I noticed in another thread there was some mention of scripture concerning homosexuality. "man shall not lie with man" one.
It intrigued me that the scripture may not have the meaning I always thought it did.
Is homosexuality a sin in Judaism?
Is it perhaps more discouraged than a sin?

[Sister Rags]

I was raised in the conservative Jewish tradition and taught that homosexuality is acceptable.

[elisi]

in the cherokee culture, a lot of our homosexuals were in the priesthood. they were considered perfectly balanced and very well respected.

here's my humble take on the meaning behind the bible verses that condemn homosexuality; 'in the beginning' the earth was sparsely populated. and god wanted them to go forth and 'multiply'. he also condemned masturbation-don't spill your seed on the ground.

it makes sense to me that lying with your own sex and masturbating does not produce offspring. and god was all about 'begating'. :)

and i also suspect that a lot of things in the bible got twisted and different meanings were deduced.

[Sister Rags]

Yes, elisi, I agree.

[Adept]

My famy is accepting of homosexuality, grandparents included. They see the scriptures as works of man and therefore they have have the flaws of man.

[Fairfre]

Thanks Sister Rags ,elisi and Adept.
I had no idea there was any sort acceptance of homosexuality in Judaism. Some very good points made here and i agree God was all about the "begating".:smile:

[Sister Rags]

Judaism is quite liberal. For example, while abortion is not encouraged, it is accepted if the pregnant woman's life is in danger. But "in danger" has a broad meaning: obviously, there is physical danger (health reasons). But if the pregnant woman feels unable mentally to take on the job of becoming a mother, abortion is permissible.

Of course, conservative and reform Jews are more liberal than orthodox Jews are (although even they are generally much more liberal than not).

[Fairfre]

I think I want to be Jewish. :smile:

[Morpheus]

There is the form of Judaism, referred to as "Messianic Judaism". And, there are variants in everything, aren't there?
One might percieve that the Laws about Homosexuality were about the formation and bringing up a community and society of a people, of God. That they prosper and they multiply in the world into a great nation.

If one feels that certain others will be judged, then let God judge, Who judges righteously, and not ourselves. What are we called to do?
We are called to love one another as God loves us, to love our neighbor also, as we love ourselves. This also is about not harming ourselves, regarding our souls, by incurring injury or harm to others by our behavior toward them.

[Jameyson72]

According to Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, while men may indeed be attracted to other men and women to other women, this is not an irreversible physical condition. He also held the view that despite this attraction, individuals so inclined may still find sexual fulfillment in a heterosexual marriage.

In Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox communities, homosexuality is condemned and Jewish bachelors are encouraged to marry.

In 2006, Conservative Judaism amended it's laws regarding homosexuality leaving it up to the congregation how it deals with homosexuality. Thus some Conservative congregations allow it while others forbid it.

Reform Judaism believes homosexuality today was not understood when the Bible was written. Thus, the Biblical prohibition of homosexual acts can and should be adapted to fit today's world.

[RabbiO]

According to Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, while men may indeed be attracted to other men and women to other women, this is not an irreversible physical condition. He also held the view that despite this attraction, individuals so inclined may still find sexual fulfillment in a heterosexual marriage.

In Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox communities, homosexuality is condemned and Jewish bachelors are encouraged to marry.

In 2006, Conservative Judaism amended it's laws regarding homosexuality leaving it up to the congregation how it deals with homosexuality. Thus some Conservative congregations allow it while others forbid it.

Reform Judaism believes homosexuality today was not understood when the Bible was written. Thus, the Biblical prohibition of homosexual acts can and should be adapted to fit today's world.

With due respect to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, he called this one wrong.

You misrepresent the Conservative position regarding homosexuality.

In any event, a case can be made that Leviticus does not contain a blanket condemnation of homosexual activity.

L'shalom,

Peter

[Jameyson72]

With due respect to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, he called this one wrong.

You misrepresent the Conservative position regarding homosexuality.

In any event, a case can be made that Leviticus does not contain a blanket condemnation of homosexual activity.

L'shalom,

Peter
This shows how out of touch I am with modern Judaism. I just came across an article dated July 4. 2012 that says "The landmark vote by the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards of the Conservative movement’s Rabbinical Assembly follows a 2006 ruling by the committee “favor[ing] the establishment of committed and loving relationships for gay and lesbian Jews.”

[Morpheus]

So, curious, what changed with respect to the label of "abomination" in the text of the Old Testament?

I had come to the perspective though, that these instructions and Laws involved the bringing up of a people of God, early on, so that they would multiply and prosper in the world, and with His favor.

[Amilius777]

I am so glad Jesus never mentioned a word about homosexuality. :D

[Astral Jane]

So, curious, what changed with respect to the label of "abomination" in the text of the Old Testament?

I had come to the perspective though, that these instructions and Laws involved the bringing up of a people of God, early on, so that they would multiply and prosper in the world, and with His favor.

Moses' teachings (not written by him, but passed on, and written by others) comprise much of the Old Testament. Moses essentially claimed he was channelling God or the Lord, it's all "And the Lord said to me..." & "God told me to tell you this.." -that is the position of most of the "teachings" and values in the Old Testament. (Yet Psalms don't sound like Moses, and has been argued parts of Psalms contradict other OT.)

Anyway... Moses said things like, a man who curses his parents (that's right, doesn't even have to assault them) should surely be put to death.
And if a man beats up a pregnant woman, but her baby is only, say, born blind because of it, then the man should be blinded, if at least temporarily. But if he kills the baby by beating the pregnant woman so badly, then it is up to her husband what his punishment is. So if it is his own wife/child, he gets off scott-free.

That's Moses for ya. I'm not saying none of it had truth or value, just that the channel/medium always adds their own twisted perspective; they are never perfect translators. After all Moses was exposed to a lot of violence.

So no wonder Jesus avoided homosexuality. Paul kinda said no, should not, though. But that was Paul. The disciples had some hard decisions - should only Jews worship Christ? Or is Jesus for everyone & anyone? I think they made the right decision, but still, they had no way to please everyone. There were people who watched Jesus miracles before their eyes, and still didn't believe it, thought it was staged. Those who heard 2nd hand, some believed it some didn't - that's just to illustrate how impossible their task was - to make it agreeable to everyone.

IMO Jesus (and perhaps other Jews before) knew about androgyny and what role it would play in human-spiritual-evolution, but they also knew that people just couldn't/wouldn't get it, and that homosexuality as it was often practiced then was, well, kinda part of orgies and promiscuity etc - so it was better to give a simple message of marry your partner, be faithful and honor your body, don't be promiscuous or take sex lightly. If some turned that into, stone a woman to death if she dishonors her husband, castrate the man who leaves his wife, etc, I'm not sure that was intended by religious leaders at the time, but they had to start somewhere.

[samsara4]

in the cherokee culture, a lot of our homosexuals were in the priesthood. they were considered perfectly balanced and very well respected.

here's my humble take on the meaning behind the bible verses that condemn homosexuality; 'in the beginning' the earth was sparsely populated. and god wanted them to go forth and 'multiply'. he also condemned masturbation-don't spill your seed on the ground.

it makes sense to me that lying with your own sex and masturbating does not produce offspring. and god was all about 'begating'. :)

and i also suspect that a lot of things in the bible got twisted and different meanings were deduced.

My views on this subject are quite consistent with yours. Thanks for sharing.

[samsara4]

This shows how out of touch I am with modern Judaism. I just came across an article dated July 4. 2012 that says "The landmark vote by the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards of the Conservative movement’s Rabbinical Assembly follows a 2006 ruling by the committee “favor[ing] the establishment of committed and loving relationships for gay and lesbian Jews.”

I'm new here, but I'm very impressed with the quality and informed positions of the posters here. Your post is indeed illuminating and I am in full agreement with the "landmark vote" that you cited above.

[Morpheus]

Moses' teachings (not written by him, but passed on, and written by others) comprise much of the Old Testament. Moses essentially claimed he was channelling God or the Lord, it's all "And the Lord said to me..." & .

...That's Moses for ya. I'm not saying none of it had truth or value, just that the channel/medium always adds their own twisted perspective; they are never perfect translators. After all Moses was exposed to a lot of violence.

Hey "Jane"? As usual thus far... your assertions, personal opinion, are made without any authoritive reference.
Wholly subjective of you.

Thanks.

[samsara4]

I am so glad Jesus never mentioned a word about homosexuality. :D

I too am glad that Jesus never mentioned a word about homosexuality.

:D

[Caitlyn Laufey]

Now if we can just convince the rest of the world this is true, things will go oh so much smoother.

[Morpheus]

My perception and perspective, as I've posted about, is that with respect to prophecy, there is a program running, of sorts.

Things are going along just fine, with respect to that, Caitlyn. All is a known apart from time and space.
Has been communicated to the world, within time and space, from long ago.

[Caitlyn Laufey]

Perhaps you are right. Some of us are just a little more impatient than others.