christian upbringing...but am I really still christian?

[victoriaplum]

Hey everyone,

Just wondered if there was anyone else out there who feels the same way I do, or maybe has some advice. I was raised Christian (C of E), and to all intents and purposes I still consider myself part of that faith, although I no longer attend church regularly. I feel as though I'm neglecting the spiritual side of my life, but I don't really feel as though I can go back to church. As an adult, I feel that God is loving and all-embracing, and I can't believe that He would exclude people for being of a different religion to my own. I also take issue with some of the church's stances on homosexuality... I have lots of gay friends, and was scarred for life by some of the judgemental attitudes of the Christian Union at uni! Is there anyone else out there who feels the same? The only time I have truly felt as though I am helping my spirit recently has been in Yoga classes, which I love.

Thanks!

victoriaplum

[kundalini]

Hi victoriaplum. My own theory on matters such as this, is that religion and spirituality are separate. Another words, you do not have to be religious to be spiritual.

You're right in saying that the attitudes of the Church against homosexuality is judgmental really. IMO, truly spiritual people strive to be non-judgmental.

Also, religions I feel are but different paths on the course of the spirituality. Many people take what they can use from each religion and apply it to their own lives. This means that in every religion there is always something that can be adapted to your own existence.

I imagine many people feel the same way as you do about these topics. I believe that if humans themselves realise that the powers-that-be are non-judgmental, then surely God professed in religions is also non-judgmental.

I hope what I have said here helps you in some way. Thanks for reading, kundalini.

[victoriaplum]

Thank you, kundalini. Your words are wise and helpful... and you echo what I think. Can you help me further? The one thing I miss at the moment is a spiritual education and community that I found as a Christian. Are there any places I can worship with others without the tyrannies of religion?

[kundalini]

Thank you, kundalini. Your words are wise and helpful... and you echo what I think. Can you help me further? The one thing I miss at the moment is a spiritual education and community that I found as a Christian. Are there any places I can worship with others without the tyrannies of religion?

Well, if you are looking for that kind of education and community, then depending where you live exactly, I am sure there will be a spiritualist church or group operating in your area. These kind of groups will possibly host 'mediumship nights' and if psychic phenomena appeals to you then they will probably provide 'psychic training' classes.

Try looking in your local paper and if you are from the UK, you could even try Thomson's Directory or the Yellow Pages. I'm sure details of groups such as these could be found in their pages. Of course, there is also the internet which may come up with details of groups in your area if you were to limit your search by say, entering the name of your town and city along with the words 'spiritual group' or 'spiritualist church'.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

[Red Sky]

Hi victoriaplum,

I was raised Catholic but I do not attend church. I agree with what you said about the judgmental attitudes and have seen much of it firsthand. I have found that many organized religions do not practice what they preach. As kundalini had mentioned, I too believe that you don't have to be religious to be spiritual. I have studied and continue to study many different types of religions and do not adhere to any particular church. True spirituality is within and it is something that we strive to attain and re-connect with throughout our physical existence. That's just my thoughts, anyway.

[victoriaplum]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm not sure that a spiritualist church is really the place for me, as it still constitutes the kind of organised religious meeting that I'm not currently too keen on! I think I'm going to try and find a Yoga place that inspires me, and look more closely into the spiritual and meditative aspects of Yoga. Red Sky, I'm glad you feel as I do... I just think that many of the Christians I have met over recent years just don't seem to adhere to Jesus' principles of love and peace, which are fundamental to my own faith and understanding. Do you still see yourself as a follower of Jesus, or are you unsure? Sorry to pry.

[kundalini]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm not sure that a spiritualist church is really the place for me, as it still constitutes the kind of organised religious meeting that I'm not currently too keen on! I think I'm going to try and find a Yoga place that inspires me, and look more closely into the spiritual and meditative aspects of Yoga. Red Sky, I'm glad you feel as I do... I just think that many of the Christians I have met over recent years just don't seem to adhere to Jesus' principles of love and peace, which are fundamental to my own faith and understanding. Do you still see yourself as a follower of Jesus, or are you unsure? Sorry to pry.

Hi victoriaplum, could I offer an explanation to you about Jesus without sounding rude?

Christianity pretty much seems to me to stem ( excluding 'The Old Testament' ) from Jesus, the Son of God. Now, there is no doubt that Jesus existed. Jesus was a man who lived over 2000 years ago. Jesus was a very powerful and good man. Here's the thing...Jesus didn't actually try to start a religion, did he? Another words, Jesus was not of religion.

Jesus was of spirituality. Jesus was a man far ahead of his time and a very special man. Jesus had a very, very close relationship with the Creator and through this relationship, he gained the power to heal ( a very powerful healing ability ), raise the dead and create miracles.

Another words, Jesus lived the spiritual path, not the life of an official religion.

Well, those are my thoughts. What do you think about that?

[Red Sky]

Hi victoriaplum,

You're not prying at all. That's what we're here for - to try and help each other understand and to learn. Yes, I do still consider myself a follower of Jesus. I do try and follow his principles of love and peace although at times it can be a difficult path to follow especially these days. I do consider myself a follower of Jesus - but not a follower of any church. It really irks me that organized religion tends to tell the people how they should live and what they should believe when frankly I do not think those in the church hierarchy understand themselves what they are preaching and teaching. How can they lead and teach when they also lack understanding and know not where they go? As a child and young teen I used to go to church with my mother and I was always asking questions about passages in the Bible because I had a deep need to know and understand that which confused me. My mother would always answer me with "We're not to question God" or "Some things are not to be known." I finally came to the conclusion that my mother said those things because she didn't know or understand. Finally, I asked a preacher one day and he gave me a similar reply. Talk about the blind leading the blind!

[Indigo Rose]

...I just think that many of the Christians I have met over recent years just don't seem to adhere to Jesus' principles of love and peace, which are fundamental to my own faith and understanding. Do you still see yourself as a follower of Jesus, or are you unsure?

Hi victoriaplum. I appreciate your feelings so much. I am a Christian, and by that I mean a true believer in and follower of Jesus the Christ. However, like you, I am left cold by the cookie cutter fundamentalist churches...the mess of "organized religion". My husband is an ordained minister and we worked together for a church for over 1 and a half; until they fired him for preaching about love and not gossiping amongst each other. They were so far from Christ in word and deed; but had so much judgment for the World at large...truly wrong in my eyes. We said ENOUGH of organized religion and now we worship the Lord at home. Remember, wherever 2 or more are gathered in the name of Christ...there He is also. You don' t have to go to church to worship the Savior. Try finding a friend or two who would like to join you sometime in Worship. You can read some Bible verses, sing some spiritual songs, and take communion to remember Jesus....giving your heart to worship is far more important than following some ridiculous Dogmatic church. IMHO many of the modern churches are nothing more than houses for the modern Pharisees; Jesus is nowhere to be found among them. Just love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul....then love your neighbors as you love yourself; for in doing this you have really done what the Lord has told you to do.

Hope you find peace on the path that comforts you.

[victoriaplum]

You are all so right. What inspires me about the life of Jesus is not his divinity, but his humanity. I would like to thank you all for helping me, and I will continue to try and follow Christ's teachings to the best of my ability, without joining a church. It is possible to find fellowship in those around you, without attending. Also Kundalini, what you say about Jesus merely echoes my own understanding. Indigo Rose, thank you for your kind words, and I am sorry that your husband did not meet with the understanding and love he deserved. Isn't there a passage in the bible about the path not being easy? Thank you for reassuring me,

Blessings on all three of you,

victoriaplum

[Mick in England]

Hey everyone,

Just wondered if there was anyone else out there who feels the same way I do, or maybe has some advice. I was raised Christian (C of E), and to all intents and purposes I still consider myself part of that faith, although I no longer attend church regularly. I feel as though I'm neglecting the spiritual side of my life, but I don't really feel as though I can go back to church. As an adult, I feel that God is loving and all-embracing, and I can't believe that He would exclude people for being of a different religion to my own. I also take issue with some of the church's stances on homosexuality... I have lots of gay friends, and was scarred for life by some of the judgemental attitudes of the Christian Union at uni! Is there anyone else out there who feels the same? The only time I have truly felt as though I am helping my spirit recently has been in Yoga classes, which I love.


You don't have to go church if you don't want, Jesus said its okay to chill alone in your room and talk to him there like a friend. He said "you're my friends if you follow me, I don't call you servants, I call you friends".

As for you wanting God to love all religions, why should he love anybody who's rejected his son Jesus? If they don't want him, why should he want them?

Regarding gays, Jesus never mentioned them at all, not a single word, that's because he knows only God has the right to judge anybody.

Sure, there are a lot of bad christians around, but don't let them put you off Jesus, they can't fool him just like he said - "Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/REL-jesus-thorns.jpg

[victoriaplum]

Hey Mick,

If you've been raised in a different faith and that's all you know, how can you possibly know Jesus? And why would our loving God reject someone for keeping the faith of their ancestors? I'm afraid that's where Christianity and I part ways. They haven't necessarily rejected Jesus, as you put it. Rather, they haven't been properly introduced! Sometimes I think Jesus has been misunderstood. Can't 'No one comes to the Father except by me' mean by following His example of extreme goodness and humanism, rather than by accepting Him as divine? Let's not forget that at the time Jesus said those things the vast majority of people had never even heard of a Jew called Jesus, let alone knowing that He was the Son of God. And He would have known that. As far as I know, He hadn't even mentioned his divinity at this point! Also, I find God in good, kind atheists much more than faux, judgemental Christians who as far as I'm concerned are not part of my faith. Just a few things to think about.

Thank you for the kind words about communing with Jesus. Are you a member of a church yourself?

Blessings,
victoriaplum x

[Mick in England]

...Are you a member of a church yourself?


No, I haven't yet found a church I feel comfortable in. For example there's a nice big church just across the bridge from me but its full of assorted out-of-control tongue-babblers, rapturists, arm-wavers and the like, so I stay away.
No sweat, there's nothing in the Bible ordering us to go to church.

RUCKSACK CHRISTIANS by Mick
In his true book "Baptism of Fire" about his life in the SAS regiment, Frank Collins tells how they were surprised to find a small well-thumbed Bible among the contents of a colleagues rucksack who'd been killed in action, because none of them suspected he was into Jesus.
The moral for all of us is that you DON'T have to go to church or be baptised or any razzmatazz like that to be a Christian.
Just quietly carry Jesus around with you in your mind (rucksack) and you'll be as good a Christian as anybody else.

Incidentally, soldiers can be very spiritual, they've seen the horror of war, and therefore appreciate the gentler side of life all the more, like this Israeli soldier in Lebanon..

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Soldier-cat.jpg

[angelus]

you must learn to separate societies teachings and brainwashing of religion, meaning religion is a man made thing to create segregation between them all, they all aim to the same place, to be righteous is all one needs to concentrate on, a simple guide are the Beatitudes of christ...

[whatsimigig]

i was raised to be a christian and didnt understand it that much growing up but along the way as i grew older i learnt my own christianity path.
i still have the same values and morals but more of an open person.
in my opinion i dont need to go to church to be close to god, he is with you all the time.
i help and support people with much compassion and do voluntary and charity work to help less fortunate, which i concider a big part of being a christian.
but i also, am a spiritualist which brings my mind,body,spirit at peace and i am happy to say and be a christian and a spiritualist.
my advice would be to follow the path you feel comfrotable in no matter what religion you are.x

[revpo]

Interesting, just remember all religions were started by man, and this was on that certain individuals theory and thoughts.
Think is their a GOD or Jesus, again many arguments, and perhaps Jesus was here on earth a messenger bestowing love and fellowship on man.
God on the other hand..where is HE, He certainly doesn't pop down since the beginning..if He does exist.
Religions are here to have a social get together, control man or put fear and control upon him..you will believe or...........

Try to enoy NATURE, it is all around you, it shows God's or someones creation, also with the universe, admire and enjoy it daily this is your worship, the water that flows is your communion to wash and stimulate yourself for that day.

I enjoy PANTHEISM, it shows the beauty of the universe<divine>, and nature which is the growth of the land which is Sacred....we adhere to no one but ourselves, no theory or dogma<controlled by man>, you are independent but enjoy and admire what is around you.

Try it

REVPO...WPM, UPS member...

[tiltjlp]

It's my opinion that all religions, and to me a religion is any organization or web site that pushes its own doctrine, is only interested in judging others by their own narrow concept of life. They control their members through fear of damnation, and charge for the privilege every week. I have not belonged to any religion for 45 years, instead I meditate, and reflect inwardly. Each of us has to determine his or her own personal truths, as well as how they choose to communicate with their personal God. You don't need a building or a group for that, merely focus inward to you heart and soul.

John

[imageimaginer]

This is an excellent discussion. I too was raised in a Catholic environment but I have strayed from the church as I have entered into Adulthood. Sometimes though when I feel lost, I return to mass just to remind myself of who I really am and how I was brought up. It makes me feel good sometimes to return to the family that I had somehow forgotten. But I often choose whether or not I want to go to church. Although our priest wants us to attend regularly. I feel that if you want to go to church then do so but only if you think that it will benefit you greatly. For years I had thought of myself as becoming a heathen only because I never went to Church. But now I know that this is not true, what was part of me will always be a part me, now and forever.

[traveller]

As Jesus was being executed between two thieves, the following conversation took place:

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
- Luke. Chapter 23. Verses 39-43. (KJV)

Did Jesus require the man who asked to be remembered to jump down off his cross and get himself baptized? Or circumcised? Or join a church? Or recite from the Book of Common Prayer? Or take Holy Communion? Or anything else?

No. He simply assured the man that he was going to be in the same place where Jesus himself was going.

* * * * *


By the way, have you heard the one about the old man who was on his deathbed, and asked for his lawyer and his doctor to visit with him before he died?

When the two arrived, the old man said, "Doctor Jones, come over here and stand to my right. And you, Lawyer Smith, come and stand on my left."

The two men complied. After a few minutes, one of them asked, "Why are we doing this?"

[COLOR=black]"Simple," the old man said. "I

[Amanita]

I agree with Tiltjlp.
I was raised a Jehovah Witness. I dont believe in Christianity or in any other form of religion for that matter. Now I