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Sindy
21-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Hi
I have followed the wiccan path for a while but am starting to have doubts here about what I am playing with. I did a spell to attract love. I wrote down all the attributes of a man I wanted and I dated him this man for a while. At first he seemed really charming, really nice but he soon turned controlling, nasty and abusive. I have been reading around about love spells and some people suggest that they are not particularly "ethical". I know if you specifically want someone in particular and do a spell you are changing their free will and can get negative karma come back on you times 3 but if you just did a spell to attract love and not a particular person why would you get negative karma come back at you?
Some say you shouldn't do spells for selfish reasons. However loads of people do love spells don't they? Can someone shed some light on this please?

Lostgirl
21-11-2010, 06:26 PM
Love spells arent ethical if you change someones will....attracting love shouldnt be a problem as long as you arent affecting anyones actions or free will.

I think the fact you say you are 'having doubts about what you are playing with" is a little worrying. You shouldnt be "playing" with it - i dont want to critisise at all im just saying that your outlook on what you are doing might affect it. Im sure some people do love spells but its something that you cant take lightly becuase in my eyes somewhere along the line you will be changing someones will.....if that makes sense....

Im not sure what eles to say and i hope i havent offended. I think just take a look at your reasons for doing the spell, as well as your reasons for doing spell and dealing with magick in general to make sure your intentions are true, you might realise something you previously missed. :)

Sindy
21-11-2010, 06:57 PM
My intentions are true. "Playing" with is probably the wrong word to use. I don't just use it for love spells. I use it for other positive things and I do take it very seriously.

stormdancer
21-11-2010, 08:13 PM
NEVER CHANGE ANYONES FREE WILL

Most witches will tell you that spells work intermittently and they treasure and share the tales of those spells that were successful. A spell that works is proof that magick is real, that we can affect the outcome of events, not just at the mysterious level of subatomic particles, but at the level of daily life.

So what do you do when a spell does't work? With the old model, you just went out and bought another book, tried a different spell, used a different ingredient. And lots of people get discouraged and stop casting spells, convinced that magick isn't real and spells are just superstitious nonsense. Well mechanical magick isn't real, and machanistic spellcasting borders on superstition. It certainly keeps the power outside yourself, which is what superstitions are based on - powerlessness.

All your ingredients, including your timing, your energy, and your connection to deity, could be right as they could be and your spell still may not manifest. Why not?

Its the magick of destiny working.

We often refer to Witchcraft as the Craft ot the Wise. Wisdom is not just earned at school - it comes from living life, particularly living through life's trials and challenges. These tests are where the greatest wisdom comes from. And the failure of a dream to come true is one of life's greatest tests. Wisdom however, has a unique way of transforming the bitter into the bittersweet, and ultimately, into the sweetness of life. And so, when a spell does not manifest, you should not ask, 'What went wrong?' but, 'Why not?' In understanding 'why not', you become wise.

So when a spell doesn't work, use divination or meditation, and ask why not. I've never once had an Oracle say to me: ' Didn't I tell you not to use vervain? Next time use rue!' Oracles show us the real reason: the deep, unseen and spiritual currents moving through a magickal life. Remember, magick often works in unexpected ways, and its timing is also not on the same schedule as yours, so be patient. I've been working on and waiting for and acting in accord with a very special spell for over a year now.

Most of all, when events don't play out as our spell intended, remember that the Universe is a complex and living process. Chaos plays a far greater role in reality than we had thought when we viewed the world through the simple mechanics of Newton's Laws. But chaos theory has also shown us something else quite amazing: at the furthest fringes of randomness, a pattern emerges. It is the pattern of spirals - the shape of D.N.A, the building block of life.

You live within an organic reality, your life is one of the spirals of beauty emerging from the infinite chaos of the quantum reality. That pattern is your destiny. Some spells advance the pattern, some do not. Those that do often manifest quickly and powerfully. Those that don't simply fizzel, or manifest in unexpected ways that are most appropriate to the pattern of your destiny.

Your destiny is not a fixed or unchangable reality. Instead, it is a probability that requires your participation to come to fruition. A spell, some have suggested, helps change possibilities into probabilities. Wisdom, self-knowledge, love and action advance you destiny. So does being connected to your inner divinity, and to the sacred in the world. The failure of a spell may be filled with as much magick as its fulfilment. When you find the meaning behind a non-manifestation, you will find its gift, its magick, and its empowerment, for you and the spell the Universe has cast.


Storm x
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Lostgirl
21-11-2010, 08:33 PM
My intentions are true. "Playing" with is probably the wrong word to use. I don't just use it for love spells. I use it for other positive things and I do take it very seriously.

Im glad your intensions are ture. Im sorry if i caused any offence it was not my intentions :):hug:

I think the love spells area is a grey one and somethine i personally wouldnt mess with. However it is each to their own and i think the fact it may have back fired ion you shows that its not worht it.

SunSister
21-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Spells can backfire at any given time, to be honest. :smile: Their phrasing is so important. The way in which you present it to the universe in energy, also, is important. Give the universe the slightest leeway with it and you'll end up with something vastly different from what you asked for. Spells are tricky little blighters in many respects.

A spell to attract love.. how do you know that the love you receive will be genuine? :smile: No spell in the world can mimic the real deal. Sooner or later, something's going to go awry because it's not the love that was meant for you. The love that was meant for you will come when it needs to. Not when it's called to. :wink:

LightFilledHeart
21-11-2010, 08:59 PM
Love spells work, but they are an infringment on free will choice. And there is this, too... do you really want someone who has not given themselves to you freely and without coersion? I would not!

Sindy
22-11-2010, 01:20 AM
Thank you for your insight. I know things can affect how the spell is cast. I though I was pretty positive at the time when I cast it but maybe looking back I wasn't ready for what I was asking for. I know sometimes spells don't work as they should and it is all part of the learning curve of the wiccan path.
I know I am on this path for a reason. I do feel a wisdom a "coming home" which is why I chose this path and I am still learning. I feel it is a lifelong path not something you can pick up and leave when you want. It s not always an easy path though and as I have cast many spells you learn something new each time. I have learnt some hard lessons. Things have come back on me and some things have been extremely unpleasant. However I still continue on because I am learning. I have leant you have to be very careful with how you can trust on this path as some people do not take react to it we..
I have done many spells and every time you learn something new.

norseman
22-11-2010, 08:28 AM
I never cast "spells" on people or for people. My work is entirely Earth Magic aimed at flora and fauna, and Land preservation. I have worked hard over many decades to become part of the Land by gaining knowledge. I am not wiccan but an older form which has it's roots in the Neolithic with tribal shaman.
It seems to me that wicca is putting out the wrong image at the moment, probably because of TV programmes - it seems to going more for show and less for substance.
"Magic", the Craft, is not a trivial thing to be used for trivial purposes such as "Love Spells" and the like.

Sindy
22-11-2010, 12:42 PM
I have strong connection to neolithic artifacts. Wicca does seem to be the "trendy" in thing at the moment and it does portray the wrong image. It is marketed in such a way now. I feel confused in my life. I don't want to do things for selfish reasons anymore. I need guidance.

Sindy
22-11-2010, 12:48 PM
I think I have been on a dark path for a while. Things happened that were out of my control which made me want to seek more control. Am I a satanist? Are people who do selfish spells really worshiping Satan?
Is trying to attract love black magic?

norseman
22-11-2010, 12:48 PM
I dont know where you are Sindy but I live in an area of England which is rich in ancient remains, including Neolithic. Being in such places is like a bolt of lightning passing thro you. Last Beltain, I attended a festival at a place called Thornborough Henge [ as old as Stonehenge and older than the Pyramids ]. The ancestors are very strong there.

norseman
22-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Sindy, Magic is neither Black or White, it just is. It is your Intent and Will that makes it Black. My path is pretty much Grey.

Lostgirl
22-11-2010, 12:56 PM
I agree with Norseman, magic is neither black or white and it is all to do with intent. I think although your intentions were good, granted maybe a little selfish although not meaning to be you are no way a satanist.

Wicca hasnt got a "dark side" only bad intentions. If people are true to Wicca and its beliefs then they wouldnt use magic with bad intentions as it doesnt follow the Rede or the comes back to you in 3 rule.

Dont worry, it was a mistake and you are aware of the fact that you havent been in a great way recently so dont panic :D A lesson learnt i say :)

LightFilledHeart
22-11-2010, 03:19 PM
I never cast "spells" on people or for people. My work is entirely Earth Magic aimed at flora and fauna, and Land preservation. I have worked hard over many decades to become part of the Land by gaining knowledge. I am not wiccan but an older form which has it's roots in the Neolithic with tribal shaman.
It seems to me that wicca is putting out the wrong image at the moment, probably because of TV programmes - it seems to going more for show and less for substance.
"Magic", the Craft, is not a trivial thing to be used for trivial purposes such as "Love Spells" and the like.

I respect and honor your words, for they are true, but the fact remains that many use magic for the trivial reasons you indicate, and it is not a good practice. I also feel the ancient discipline of utilizing magic and the purposes for doing so have been diluted and watered down by the false media representation of wicca being force fed to an unsuspecting and uninformed public :icon_frown:

Lostgirl
22-11-2010, 03:37 PM
And it is exactly those people who find their spells back fire when they have no idea about Wicca.

One of the many reasons why people shouldnt pay so much attention to the media.

Sindy
22-11-2010, 07:35 PM
I don't only use it for trivial reasons. Can you tell me what you use it for?

stormdancer
22-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Firstly I hate love spells and when many people come to me and ask me to perform a love spell for them I point blank refuse...never never try to change someones free will!!!!! harm ye none...I would say maybe look within and ask yourself why you need this person to love you and why would you want someone to if underneath it, they only liked you because you put a spell on them..I know what my choice would be.

There's an old saying...."Play with fire and you will get burned"...I truly believe in that. So for those who are new to this way of life, please be extremely careful in your magical workings and I would strongly advise not to commence with Spell Works until you know more about the Craft and your knowledge is stronger and deeper.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous tool.....

In the Craft so many people are looking for guidance but you are going to keep being disconnected if you are unbalanced to yourself. You have to know exactly what you are looking for and what you want to accomplish in order to achieve it....Otherwise you are going to be told the wrong direction ..If you ask too many you will end up spinning in circles not knowing what way you are going at all. Make sure you know exactly what you are looking for when you are wanting to learn about your spirituality.

The highest form of magick is realising that everything is perfect and to realise and to accept it and to realise that the lower forms of magick such as creating thought form, candle magic etc which are all steps on the path are really unnecessary...The masters will never do things to manipulate the environment or to change the circumstances that are in the universe. Acceptance is the highest form of magick and when you have reached the highest state of magick you realise that magick is not necessary.That is the goal of where you want to go to...and if you are not at that state it's ok because those are steps along the path.

Just to clear things up lol.....

•Witches do not put curses on people.

•We do not shed blood in ritual, nor do we slaughter ANYTHING to offer to our deities, for they do not need blood to be duly worshipped.

•We do not use magick for frivolous, egotistical, or selfish reasons. This cheapens the effects of this gift. Nor is this power used for profit, donations may be accepted, but are never required ~ greed only swallows those who wield into its clutches.

•We do not use magick to influence another's will.

•We do not perform "beauty" spells, which were ever popularised in the ficticious movie "The Craft". The God/esses would never want to change who you are in this life. Even if you are Christian, Jew, or Muslim, or whatever your belief system may be, we are all put here for a purpose, and yes, our looks go along with this. They make us who we are, and define our purposes. We are here to learn and make the best of our lives, a spell isn't going to change the world for any one of us.

•We also do NOT mix drugs into our daily lives or during ritual. Sometimes, however,wine is used as a ritual offering, but by no means is it used to get "plastered", only a small amount is used and a offering to the goddess is left over. Given in a libation bowl, or poured directly into the Earth. Herbs may also be burned as offerings.

•Magick is a gift from the Elders, to be used properly to grow and to heal. If you want machines of war and harm, DO NOT look here. If you want the world to worship at your feet, look somewhere else.

•Magick is a blend of Nature, energies, and love and light. It is NOT a tool of destruction. Use the Power wisely, for greed and corruption quickly control the holder of this power if used incorrectly. That is NOT the purpose of Magick.


Peace and Love

Storm xx

norseman
22-11-2010, 10:23 PM
I don't only use it for trivial reasons. Can you tell me what you use it for?
I was rude there Sindy and I apologise.

My work is long-term and I will not see the results. It is concerned with the protection of some endangered species, both flora and fauna, so it does not have a definite end, it is continuous. My favourite work, is planting acorns where there used to be oak trees long ago. I invoke Gaia's blessing on every one I plant - couple of centuries should see a result. The final area that I like to work in concerns the ancestors - making contact and such to ask for advice. I do get results in that final area. All in all, results are not as important as the effort. This is my Land and I do my best to protect it.
This may seem like an odd thing to do but it is modelled on the Cunning Man of long ago and I find it deeply satisfying.

Sindy
23-11-2010, 02:29 PM
There are loads of "magical workers" out there who charge for their spells and do not rely on donations. Cassandra Eason for example.

stormdancer
24-11-2010, 10:57 PM
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There are loads of "magical workers" out there who charge for their spells and do not rely on donations. Cassandra Eason for example.


I'm going to continue on this post by relating to you a story that has a higher message:

There was a man who had inherited a large parcel of land, and he didn't know he already owned this parcel of land that he had inherited because he lived far away. As he matured and grew up he returned to where he had been born and his place of inheritance and found the parcel of land that was his. Now he didn't realize that the deed had been slightly altered by the neighbour who lived next to the parcel of land. This neighbour had gone and taken about 20ft of the parcel and had changed the deed so that it didn't reflect that chunk of his inheritance that was already his, so that the neighbour could use it. So what the neighbour did, because this man did not realize he owned this land, he approached him and offered to sell him his parcel of land. Now the truth is that this gentleman had no idea he already owned it, and his neighbour was going to sell him something he already owned.

http://j.imagehost.org/0788/2367.gif (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fj.imagehost.org%2525252 Fview%2525252F0788%2525252F2367)

I would like you all too please be wary of anyone who tries to sell you something you already own inside. Every bit of knowledge, every bit of intelligence, every experience that is experienced throughout the entire Universe, by every part of the Universe is imprinted in the fabric of the energy, the force that makes everything up. That force is part of what makes you up, and you own it, because it makes everything up, there is nothing outside of it! Now you might not be consciously aware of all of that bit of knowledge and wisdom that is within you, and through your meditation practices, and through practicing conscious creation, ( intent ), you are going to be able to bring back to the surface of your own mind and from your subconscious self, and draw upon every bit of knowledge and every bit of information, and every true belief of who you are, and your going to bring this to the surface of your remembrance....... That's the Mystical Path.

http://j.imagehost.org/0788/2367.gif (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fj.imagehost.org%2525252 Fview%2525252F0788%2525252F2367)

I can't sell you that. I can't sell you the knowledge that comes from within me, and the wisdom that has come to my surface of my consciousness, because in actuality that is the same wisdom and knowledge and intelligence that floats through you. I don't own it! How can I sell you something I don't own? I want you to be wary of anybody who tries to sell you knowledge or wisdom that you already own. You may have forgotten it’s yours. Maybe I may help you to point out to you what you already own, and as a simple teacher here I hope that I can do this and help you on your magical path, but to sell you something you already own is in my opinion not something a master would do. Buddha never charged a penny for the wisdom he offered people, because he knew that was within them, In fact when they would call him the Buddha, he often said ' Find the Buddha within yourself', because It's the same Buddha. Christ told his followers ' you will become one with me', and when they have reached that state of ' Oneness', they will realize that the wisdom that he was trying to offer was already inside of them, they just had not recognized their own divinity. This is something true Masters will do; they will not charge you for what is already yours. I want you to remember this because it's very important.

Peace and Love


Storm xxxx

arive nan
25-11-2010, 02:07 AM
At first he seemed really charming, really nice but he soon turned controlling, nasty and abusive.

This often happens when there are no spells involved at all. Guys who tend to be abusive and controlling will behave well only in the beginning of a relationship. It is a common pattern for them. This is not your fault.

mahakali
25-11-2010, 02:53 AM
just a thought, what if the person really does love you they are just scared of committing or really scared of there own feelings they can not handle and what if you could use your intentions, not actually a spell, to help them see the truth and wake up, causing them great enlightenment in the process. would this be bad? would this be bad to do to your soul mate if they are in fact the other half of your soul and you are helping yourself really?

Lostgirl
25-11-2010, 07:06 AM
In my mind if they are your soul mate then they will be ready when they are ready. It will happen if and when it is ready to happen and using intentions or magic wont affect that. If they arent ready to commit then i wouldnt want to use anything to force them into something. What will be will be and all that :D

mahakali
25-11-2010, 02:48 PM
well that's cool i was jut bringing up a point to the matter heres another one, if a spell makes it happen then its not interfering with destiny, so maybe the spell and the relationship was a part of destiny, even if it doesn't last maybe the point was to teach you something. not in all cases of course but one thing I've come to believe in my life is that anything is possible, nothing is only 1 way.

Roselove
26-11-2010, 06:29 PM
i think the best way to attract love is by law of attraction and being happy and peaceful healing your issues within

wishescometrue
26-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Hear Hear Rosewater... I agree wholeheartedly!

stormdancer
26-11-2010, 10:49 PM
If there’s one thing that Witches are famous for, some reason…it’s our ability to cast spells. For those whose knowledge of magick began at Hogwarts, it may come as a surprise that casting a spell doesn’t mean throwing arcane and somewhat disgusting, items into a bubbling cauldron. Nor does it require the use of a special wand and sparkly, flashing lights.

Spellcraft is actually quite simple and, if you follow the rules, often quite effective. There’s that “R” word again. Yes, as with all things magickal there are rules to follow unless it doesn’t bother you that Karma might come calling, wearing a pair of steel-capped boots!

The one rule:
An it harm none, do as you will.

How easy is that?

In a nutshell this rule, part of the Wiccan Rede (http://www.witchcraft.com.au/index.html#wiccan), means that you can go ahead and do whatever your heart desires magickally, so long as neither you or anyone else gets hurt or suffers a loss in the process. Do yourself a favour now. Throw out all the notions you may have about Curses, Hexes, or using magick in other ways to “get even”...... Even the simplest of Love Spells can be dangerous. If what you’re trying to do would make the other person act in any way other than normal, then you’d best stop right now. Free will is a powerful thing and should never be played with.


Peace

Storm x

mahakali
27-11-2010, 03:53 AM
your absolutely right. is it a bad thing to wish for someone else to have clarity, for them to wake up? for that may make him do something different in a way changing his decisions, changing his will.

LightFilledHeart
27-11-2010, 02:53 PM
your absolutely right. is it a bad thing to wish for someone else to have clarity, for them to wake up? for that may make him do something different in a way changing his decisions, changing his will.

I don't think it's wrong to ask for clarity for someone. That's akin to asking for his or her highest good.

Cassandra
13-01-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm with you there, LightFilledHeart....

...any work that's intended for somebody's Highest Good, surely, can't be bad? Clarity, peace, comfort, healing - they all come under that umbrella, I'd say.

norseman
13-01-2011, 03:26 PM
"Highest good" - in who's opinion ? Slippery slope, that one.

LightFilledHeart
14-01-2011, 07:45 PM
"Highest good" - in who's opinion ? Slippery slope, that one.

I disagree. A person's highest good is defined by spirit or Source, and is not influenced or swayed by human opinion.
(IMO! :wink:)

norseman
14-01-2011, 10:39 PM
:D What about if the person concerned does not wish for clarity ? Personally, I NEVER cast for people.

Gem
14-01-2011, 11:02 PM
"Highest good" - in who's opinion ? Slippery slope, that one.

Big mountain too.

shaya48
14-01-2011, 11:03 PM
Hi
I have followed the wiccan path for a while but am starting to have doubts here about what I am playing with. I did a spell to attract love. I wrote down all the attributes of a man I wanted and I dated him this man for a while. At first he seemed really charming, really nice but he soon turned controlling, nasty and abusive. I have been reading around about love spells and some people suggest that they are not particularly "ethical". I know if you specifically want someone in particular and do a spell you are changing their free will and can get negative karma come back on you times 3 but if you just did a spell to attract love and not a particular person why would you get negative karma come back at you?
Some say you shouldn't do spells for selfish reasons. However loads of people do love spells don't they? Can someone shed some light on this please?


Hi Sindy:smile:

Just trust that the Universe places us at the right time in the right place to meet whoever we are meant to meet whether that is a karmic learning lesson r/ship such as the one you had with the above you mention, or to meet your soul mate on a soul level, when you have graduated from your learning lesson r/ships (if you choose to learn from them) then the Universe knows you are ready to recieve the right one into your life for your future happiness.

Love and light Shaya.:hug3:

AngelHeart
15-01-2011, 07:10 PM
would a love spell used to help grow someones feelings for you without Manipulative words..work?

LightFilledHeart
15-01-2011, 07:41 PM
:D What about if the person concerned does not wish for clarity ? Personally, I NEVER cast for people.

Highest good, as I said, is not determined/defined by me or you, or even the person's conscious self, but by Source/Spirit. As for your not asking for anything for another, if you feel it's wrong to do so, then by all means refrain. I, on the other hand, feel quite comfortable doing so. To each his or her own!