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Archaic77
20-03-2014, 05:57 PM
Hi, I am new to this forum. Nice to meet you.

I have written a fairly short and concise piece that i hope will help those people who still might have doubt that they themselves and the Universe are Divine. Hopefully it makes sense to you because i believe it is quite compelling (if i do say so myself)

Here we go:
----------------------

Cosmic Consciousness

How to "prove" the "divine quality" of the universe and *You* to yourself:

(this is not religious)

The universe is sentient and alive, as are you. The relationship between you and the universe is symbiotic, In fact without you existing it would not exist.. literally. You will be able to see this (if not already) through a few thoughts exercises.

The universe is all about consciousness..

1: Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

Q: Does it exist?

A: No, because there is nothing for it to exist to.

In other words a universe without a single drop of awareness is the same case as having no universe at all.

2: "In fact without you it would not exist, literally" ??

This is paradoxical.

For this one all you have to do is imagine that you do not exist..

Q: If i did not exist would the universe exist?

A: No, because for you in your hypothetical non-existing (ironic) state there is no universe -as your experience also does not exist.

But we "know" that there *is* a universe..

The term "you are the universe" holds a great deal of truth here.

3 : This leads to question whether it is even possible for you to "not exist"

a) Q: Is it possible for one who "does exist" to "not exist".

A: This one takes a little mix of faith (in conscious nature only) and logic:

If the universe is sentient and gave birth to our consciousness then it is more than likely that it had a purpose to have done so, this is simply an optimistic, but actually justified, observation.
Mass is dense energy and energy can only ever be transformed, never destroyed. For the colossal amount of time, from the big bang to the time of your birth, the energy that now is you, and the potential of you always "existed". After birth you became conscious and now "know" that "you exist". No matter what happens to your body from this point forward the energy that now comprises you will *always* "exist" (either in mass or energy), it can only ever transform. Consciousness itself is also a form of energy.


-----------------------------------------------------

In summary we have demonstrated that the universe and the quality of consciousness are interwoven and it is highly likely that it is itself sentient. We know that in a very meaningful way we have "existed" within this universe since its its conception. and that it is *impossible* to destroy the energy that we are, although it may transform


Many people believe that after we "die" we will "not exist".

I am extremely optimistic that this is not the case and i hope you can see why.

xRivelinox
20-03-2014, 06:08 PM
That's done my nut in lol, nice post.

keep the love

GoldenLioness
20-03-2014, 06:40 PM
Interesting thoughts! This reminds me of years ago when I would often contemplate non-existence, or what would "be" if I did not exist, and it was always impossible.

charly233
20-03-2014, 07:04 PM
Very interesting. I have been thinking along similar lines. You have got things down on paper in a very clear and concise manner.

There is a law of conservation of Energy. So why not a law of conservation of Consciousness?

Archaic77
20-03-2014, 07:12 PM
Thnks guys!

@GoldenLioness Yep if it exists it will exist forever only in different states. There is no non-existence for that that exists in reality.

Arcturus
20-03-2014, 07:55 PM
the universe would not exist if i didn't cos my consciousnesss is not actually mine, its part of that whole. any perception of seperation is self projected and so if i completely end, then it must too, because i'm tapping it, right now (sort of). thats my take on that bit, is there a part of us that never ends? it can't be anything about us that our thought has put together as thats in time and this isn't. i like your idea that consciousness is a form of energy and so must transform rather than end. sounds right.

i do not know that i have existed in the universe since its very conception. i feel i might have but i don't know for sure and don't see the need to know or feel i have been.

Eudaimonist
22-03-2014, 10:29 AM
1: Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

Why would I imagine this? I personally think that awareness is emergent. It doesn't exist everywhere, but it doesn't exist nowhere either. It exists for those entities that are aware, such as living beings.

Q: Does it exist?

A: No, because there is nothing for it to exist to.

That doesn't make any sense. Existence does not require being perceived. It only requires having characteristics. A tree that falls in a forest when no one else is there to perceive it is still an existing tree. The tree has location, mass, form, etc.

I'll just stop here, since I'll just be kicking a dead horse.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Archaic77
22-03-2014, 09:30 PM
"That doesn't make any sense. Existence does not require being perceived. It only requires having characteristics. A tree that falls in a forest when no one else is there to perceive it is still an existing tree. The tree has location, mass, form, etc."

Is the tree "conscious" ? : yes

conisider how much of the earth is conscious taking this into account, because plants absolutely are aware.

the universe "thrives" on consciousness. in order of magnitude/value it is pinnacle. Because without it the universe would have no awareness of itself. And key to a universe is "experience". For why else is it there?

If there were no "experience" there would be void only.



Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

This is an extremely dim prospect for this universe for nothing aware will ever, throughout its whole existence, experience it, including itself.. hence has no way to "exist" with any meaning at all.

Archaic77
22-03-2014, 09:36 PM
Also even electrons.. that exist within every single bit of matter behave like they are conscious.

As you observe them they are "aware" that you are observing and form a particle.

As you are not observing they are "aware" that you are *not* observing and switch to wave form

Akkadian
22-03-2014, 09:52 PM
Very interest post. Thank you for sharing.

-Akkadian

BurningBush
24-03-2014, 03:07 AM
The universe is all about consciousness..

1: Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

Q: Does it exist?

A: No, because there is nothing for it to exist to.

Is this even possible? The universe that I am imagining is an amalgamation of pictures of space and stars and galaxies that I've seen. It has nothing to do with consciousness except that I must be conscious to imagine it. By definition, no one has ever observed such a universe so, assuming that our ability to imagine is based on past experience, any attempt to imagine such a universe is inherently in error.

In other words a universe without a single drop of awareness is the same case as having no universe at all.

2: "In fact without you it would not exist, literally" ??

This is paradoxical.

For this one all you have to do is imagine that you do not exist..

Q: If i did not exist would the universe exist?

A: No, because for you in your hypothetical non-existing (ironic) state there is no universe -as your experience also does not exist.

But we "know" that there *is* a universe..

The term "you are the universe" holds a great deal of truth here.

The universe as a mental object would cease to exist if I ceased to exist, but part of the full nature of that mental object is that it is representative of an external reality. Do you not experience the universe as external to you? Do you really believe that the universe is only in your mind?

3 : This leads to question whether it is even possible for you to "not exist"

a) Q: Is it possible for one who "does exist" to "not exist".

A: This one takes a little mix of faith (in conscious nature only) and logic:

If the universe is sentient and gave birth to our consciousness then it is more than likely that it had a purpose to have done so, this is simply an optimistic, but actually justified, observation.
Mass is dense energy and energy can only ever be transformed, never destroyed. For the colossal amount of time, from the big bang to the time of your birth, the energy that now is you, and the potential of you always "existed". After birth you became conscious and now "know" that "you exist". No matter what happens to your body from this point forward the energy that now comprises you will *always* "exist" (either in mass or energy), it can only ever transform. Consciousness itself is also a form of energy.

How did we get from the universe not existing without us being conscious of it to the universe itself being conscious? If we try to look at this from a "scientific" perspective, the universe did give birth to our consciousness, but it didn't have to be conscious to do that. As someone mentioned, consciousness could be emergent.

I don't know that "I" exist because I can't possibly define any of the terms of that sentence in a non-circular or non-assumptive way. I experience but when I start to ask questions like whether I exist, I've left that experience, which is supposed to be the evidence that I exist. The question and the real proof are mutually exclusive.

Archaic77
24-03-2014, 05:23 AM
"s this even possible? The universe that I am imagining is an amalgamation of pictures of space and stars and galaxies that I've seen. It has nothing to do with consciousness except that I must be conscious to imagine it. By definition, no one has ever observed such a universe so, assuming that our ability to imagine is based on past experience, any attempt to imagine such a universe is inherently in error."

It is logical..

It *adores* it.

Every single thing that at least contains electrons.. has at least fundamental awareness..

As you are observing matter the electrons within it are "aware" that you are observing and are a particle.

As you are not observing matter the electrons are "aware" that you are not observing and are a wave

I can *imagine* the *hypothetical universe* and it is complete no go

The universe tends towards consciousness it just has to :)

"The universe as a mental object would cease to exist if I ceased to exist, but part of the full nature of that mental object is that it is representative of an external reality. Do you not experience the universe as external to you? Do you really believe that the universe is only in your mind?"

No the universe is not only in my mind. However where does your experience take place ? externally? :)

This was to show that non-existence is entirely impossible...
Energy is never destroyed.. You are essentially the Universe experiencing itself, although you have *identity*.

How did we get from the universe not existing without us being conscious of it to the universe itself being conscious? If we try to look at this from a "scientific" perspective, the universe did give birth to our consciousness, but it didn't have to be conscious to do that. As someone mentioned, consciousness could be emergent.

I don't know that "I" exist because I can't possibly define any of the terms of that sentence in a non-circular or non-assumptive way. I experience but when I start to ask questions like whether I exist, I've left that experience, which is supposed to be the evidence that I exist. The question and the real proof are mutually exclusive.

It is as good as experiencing anything at all to "know that you exist".. dont make it more complicated than it has to be for yourself.. :P

Yes consciousness *is* emergent

However the fundamentals of "consciousness" were present at the "original singularity" this is self evident.. And it is entirely its purpose..

The universe flourishes with it.. and is as good as its own child.

My theory.. (still a theory, not quite "Realized" enough to confirm it to myself):

At the "original singularity" the "primordial" "energy" was sent out into existence.. Cosmic evolution began.. "Enriched" energy transformed in to conscious beings on this planet. we know this from Neil Tyson :P

Where i go off to theorize is that in "potential" anything is possible, but it is in a state of cosmic evolution and can still be termed as "primordial" (life is not perfect) in this current space time.

Now every conscious being exists as a singularity..

Q:Murderer kills 200 people in his life one at a time- how many victims *experienced* being murdered by him
A: One

Each one only ever experiences their own murder..

Also basically only "One" has ever *lived/experienced* although *many have*

I have an inkling.. but is hard for me to accept to be honest. that the purpose of the past 13 billion years of evolution (and beyond) was for it to develop enough consciousness/potential to "complete the singularity" *create* higher dimensions/bliss and essentially *conquer* its own nature.

My mind instantly visualizes the Ouruboros (snake swallowing its own tail) when i come here..

The tail is the "Original singularity" the body stretches through "Time" and we are the "head"

In potential, even in this "physical" universe - fundamentally anything is possible... so maybe - just maybe our interaction with Energy/matter is doing this...

Archaic77
24-03-2014, 05:42 AM
why do i say "conquer"?

Because when you think about your brain .. It is entirely comprised of energy/mass. But it requires "physicality" to function.. you obviously have electrons within your entire body .. which we know are a dual state - wave particle - the illusion of solidity.

Realization is you "conquering" your own physical nature.. as the universe has to in order to create higher states .. evolution..

Archaic77
24-03-2014, 09:14 AM
Imagine if any single thought in our heads could manifest in existence.. (Which it does within you for certain, as a hologram) I am pretty optimistic that the universe wants this to be the case.. Since it will fulfill our dreams as soon as it is possible for it too.. There's no reason why it could not simultaneously have *begun* and then *always existed* (after it reaches the potential).. ( i used to be "schizophrenic" and have crazy imagination ..used to create all sorts of "dimensional thoughts)

Eudaimonist
24-03-2014, 10:39 PM
"That doesn't make any sense. Existence does not require being perceived. It only requires having characteristics. A tree that falls in a forest when no one else is there to perceive it is still an existing tree. The tree has location, mass, form, etc."

Is the tree "conscious" ? : yes

That trees are conscious is a doubtful view. But we can replace trees with rocks in this example.

If there were no "experience" there would be void only.

If I were unconscious - perhaps in a coma - and my home were to burn down, my body would be burnt regardless if I were conscious or not. There is no void in existence simply because I shut my eyes or fall into a coma.

Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

Yes, and that universe that I imagine would be an existing universe. It simply wouldn't be a perceived universe.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 09:05 AM
"That trees are conscious is a doubtful view. But we can replace trees with rocks in this example."

You must try to think beyond your perception of the qualities of your own consciousness.

Take this in:

In every atom there are electrons. They exhibit at least rudimentary "awareness".

As you are observing the electrons they are are "aware" you are observing and are a particle

As you are not observing they are "aware" you are not observing and are a wave

Are plants "alive"?


"If I were unconscious - perhaps in a coma - and my home were to burn down, my body would be burnt regardless if I were conscious or not. There is no void in existence simply because I shut my eyes or fall into a coma."


You must consider that if a fundamental subatomic particle exhibits awareness... what does it imply?

You have entirely missed the point

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 09:42 AM
"Yes, and that universe that I imagine would be an existing universe. It simply wouldn't be a perceived universe."

Same as above...

In the *hypothetical universe* we have stripped even the electrons of that *rudimentary awareness* also .. throughout its whole existence (Time) there will *never* be anything at all that is even as *fundamentally aware" as an electron

So Can it be at all?

Do you have an experience?

-- there is "Divinity" --

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 09:44 AM
Also, we humans tend to have rather fixed definitions of what we experience due to our constant relying on "language".


It is most beneficial to examine the thought that gave rise to the word..

charly233
25-03-2014, 11:28 AM
Also, we humans tend to have rather fixed definitions of what we experience due to our constant relying on "language".


It is most beneficial to examine the thought that gave rise to the word..

How do you separate "thought" and "language"?

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 11:38 AM
It is the *word* , which are definitions of thoughts, we are considering.

Yes thought is "language".. which is my point.. but you do not need to use words to "think"

Most us of are used to being externalized so rely on word even within themselves.

When you look beyond to the "primary" meaning of the word.. the definition expands..

This is why i do not like religion....

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 11:56 AM
This ( it did for me *i believe*) can lead you to essentially communicating with the "Divine" .. which is essentially in absolutely everything currently surrounding you and beyond..

Through meditation this will be developed.

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 12:08 PM
A really beautiful thing also..

Air..

Electrons are within every single atom that are constituting the air that we are currently breathing, And is occupying the vacuum that would be here without the earths presence.

Air is literally magical..

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 12:27 PM
I witness this when i am practicing my version of Qigong..

Clouds of *Particles* will seem to literally *pop* in to my field of vision and dance in front of me..

Due to my extreme excitement and, emotional disbelief at seeing this the experience comes and goes.

Several times however I have seemed to be able to "link the movement of my hand" to their position in space.

It is not a hallucination..

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 12:38 PM
@Eudaimonist

And where does the *essential to life* component of air come from?


Plants...

So come on - they gave you life - can you at least consider that they may have "spirit" ...

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 01:13 PM
Another thing..

At the original singularity everything that is currently the universe was "touching" then expanded into what we are currently experiencing.

Because of this everything is fundamentally *Entangled*

look up "Entanglement"

When 2 particles align with one another they link.

You can then send one particle 1 billion light years in one direction and the other 1 billion light years the opposite direction.. (Name the distance by the way)

Any reaction to stimuli that occurs to one entangled particle *Instantaneously* with absolute ZERO "time" delay

The other will respond as if it had occurred to it.

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 01:17 PM
There is no reason to doubt :)

Archaic77
25-03-2014, 02:23 PM
I find that my vision is drawn very strongly to the "material" which is probably the case for everyone..

it was hard at first to examine air itself.. i simply was not used to it.. i found i had to think "dimensionally".

In my practice i found it difficult to pin point a location in the space of my room whilst "projecting the "force" of my hand". It was like motoring myself.. if that makes any sense..

Every time i have attempted it it has been rewarded with at least some noticeable activity

Also i get an overwhelming inner sense that something that is not me is encouraging me and growing excited..

I recommend it..

silent whisper
25-03-2014, 07:35 PM
A really beautiful thing also..

Air..

Electrons are within every single atom that are constituting the air that we are currently breathing, And is occupying the vacuum that would be here without the earths presence.

Air is literally magical..

Yes it is magical
When you merge as *one* with your own air element within you, you can open to the nature of how you think, how present your are with the magic of air......are you open free flowing like the air? how do you breath and move through all life? How much air do you allow yourself to take in? Is every cell in your being, dancing with your breath as it draws on each inhalation of air.....and so on and so on, it flows..:)

silent whisper
25-03-2014, 07:39 PM
Another thing..

At the original singularity everything that is currently the universe was "touching" then expanded into what we are currently experiencing.

Because of this everything is fundamentally *Entangled*

look up "Entanglement"

When 2 particles align with one another they link.

You can then send one particle 1 billion light years in one direction and the other 1 billion light years the opposite direction.. (Name the distance by the way)

Any reaction to stimuli that occurs to one entangled particle *Instantaneously* with absolute ZERO "time" delay

The other will respond as if it had occurred to it.


I like this, it reveals the dance of life and the whole connection as one. Time and space become irrelvent to the nature of the whole connection linked in that dance..it also opens the space of the universe being a divine and orderly arrangement of chaos...each connected link as we are within the oneness creating waves through all connections.

Once you can see yourself through this space of being, their often opens a big shift of awareness in relation to the whole you ripple and affect in your space as the one...one with the original one.

running
25-03-2014, 08:10 PM
I am my reference point. I am my center of the universe. Without me is nothing.

MGazonda
25-03-2014, 09:22 PM
I'm going to... poke some holes in your arguments. Not because I don't agree with the premise, but rather it's about the points themselves.


The universe is sentient and alive, as are you. The relationship between you and the universe is symbiotic, In fact without you existing it would not exist.. literally. You will be able to see this (if not already) through a few thoughts exercises.


What do you mean by "you", and "exist"?


The universe is all about consciousness..

1: Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

Q: Does it exist?

A: No, because there is nothing for it to exist to.

In other words a universe without a single drop of awareness is the same case as having no universe at all.


"Dead" is a relative term. For this energy to be "dead" it must also be alive.


2: "In fact without you it would not exist, literally" ??

This is paradoxical.

For this one all you have to do is imagine that you do not exist..

Q: If i did not exist would the universe exist?

A: No, because for you in your hypothetical non-existing (ironic) state there is no universe -as your experience also does not exist.

But we "know" that there *is* a universe..

The term "you are the universe" holds a great deal of truth here.

It's really important to share your position on what you mean by "you" not existing, since the way you are using these ideas is different from the commonly held belief about those ideas.

I can take the definition I expect most people to have when you say this, imagine that not existing, and see there still being a universe. And well, that also depends on the definition of "exist"... and I'm considering the way I expect this would be commonly heard.


3 : This leads to question whether it is even possible for you to "not exist"

a) Q: Is it possible for one who "does exist" to "not exist".

A: This one takes a little mix of faith (in conscious nature only) and logic:

If the universe is sentient and gave birth to our consciousness then it is more than likely that it had a purpose to have done so, this is simply an optimistic, but actually justified, observation.
Mass is dense energy and energy can only ever be transformed, never destroyed. For the colossal amount of time, from the big bang to the time of your birth, the energy that now is you, and the potential of you always "existed". After birth you became conscious and now "know" that "you exist". No matter what happens to your body from this point forward the energy that now comprises you will *always* "exist" (either in mass or energy), it can only ever transform. Consciousness itself is also a form of energy.

I would say that much can be done without purpose.

How could I become conscious from not being conscious?

In summary we have demonstrated that the universe and the quality of consciousness are interwoven and it is highly likely that it is itself sentient. We know that in a very meaningful way we have "existed" within this universe since its its conception. and that it is *impossible* to destroy the energy that we are, although it may transform


All energy is merely waves, and similar to waves there is the potential for agitating and calming. Although I think destroy would be the wrong word, I don't agree that energy can't be destroyed.


Many people believe that after we "die" we will "not exist".

I am extremely optimistic that this is not the case and i hope you can see why.

I think there's more choice in this than it might seem. But then again, that gets back to what I asked about before. Who is it that is dying and going to a state of non-existence?

loopylucid
25-03-2014, 10:00 PM
:happy1: For very educational reasons im looking forward to this hehehe:hug3:

Loopy

silent whisper
25-03-2014, 10:04 PM
Hi, I am new to this forum. Nice to meet you.

I have written a fairly short and concise piece that i hope will help those people who still might have doubt that they themselves and the Universe are Divine. Hopefully it makes sense to you because i believe it is quite compelling (if i do say so myself)

Here we go:
----------------------

Cosmic Consciousness

How to "prove" the "divine quality" of the universe and *You* to yourself:

(this is not religious)

The universe is sentient and alive, as are you. The relationship between you and the universe is symbiotic, In fact without you existing it would not exist.. literally. You will be able to see this (if not already) through a few thoughts exercises.

The universe is all about consciousness..

1: Imagine an entire universe - all that is - consisting of only "dead" space, "dead" energy and "dead" mass. In this universe nothing at all is aware or sentient and will never be.

Q: Does it exist?

A: No, because there is nothing for it to exist to.

In other words a universe without a single drop of awareness is the same case as having no universe at all.

2: "In fact without you it would not exist, literally" ??

This is paradoxical.

For this one all you have to do is imagine that you do not exist..

Q: If i did not exist would the universe exist?

A: No, because for you in your hypothetical non-existing (ironic) state there is no universe -as your experience also does not exist.

But we "know" that there *is* a universe..

The term "you are the universe" holds a great deal of truth here.

3 : This leads to question whether it is even possible for you to "not exist"

a) Q: Is it possible for one who "does exist" to "not exist".

A: This one takes a little mix of faith (in conscious nature only) and logic:

If the universe is sentient and gave birth to our consciousness then it is more than likely that it had a purpose to have done so, this is simply an optimistic, but actually justified, observation.
Mass is dense energy and energy can only ever be transformed, never destroyed. For the colossal amount of time, from the big bang to the time of your birth, the energy that now is you, and the potential of you always "existed". After birth you became conscious and now "know" that "you exist". No matter what happens to your body from this point forward the energy that now comprises you will *always* "exist" (either in mass or energy), it can only ever transform. Consciousness itself is also a form of energy.


-----------------------------------------------------

In summary we have demonstrated that the universe and the quality of consciousness are interwoven and it is highly likely that it is itself sentient. We know that in a very meaningful way we have "existed" within this universe since its its conception. and that it is *impossible* to destroy the energy that we are, although it may transform


Many people believe that after we "die" we will "not exist".

I am extremely optimistic that this is not the case and i hope you can see why.


I love your thoughts, very cool..:)

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 02:38 AM
Heres my theory


"13 billion" years ago we existed as primordial ether within the "beginning" state of a an expanding singularity no time no place no mass no space... something happend

IN this state we were "touching" and "align"

It expanded and throw the divine ether into dimensional space

Cosmic evolution occured.

IT expanded to seek to higher and higher states - to create the fourth dmiension


Because i believe the universe is all about it realizing its OWN potential - and everything :)


The Ouruborous (snake eating its own taill ) always comes to mind

I believe the magnitude of of entanglement should be conisderd.

Im stoned dont care what you think :)

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 02:50 AM
I do not rely on word as much.. i rely on wordless thought..many concepts..

MGazonda
26-03-2014, 03:03 AM
Heres my theory


"13 billion" years ago we existed as primordial ether within the "beginning" state of a an expanding singularity no time no place no mass no space... something happend

IN this state we were "touching" and "align"

It expanded and throw the divine ether into dimensional space

Cosmic evolution occured.

IT expanded to seek to higher and higher states - to create the fourth dmiension


Because i believe the universe is all about it realizing its OWN potential - and everything :)


The Ouruborous (snake eating its own taill ) always comes to mind

I believe the magnitude of of entanglement should be conisderd.

Im stoned dont care what you think :)

Yes, there's a lot to the ouroboros thing. So now, apply that to the history of the universe. What happens to 13 billion years ago?

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 03:07 AM
What i do is this..

If i ask myself when i visulize the water within me literally becoming a gateway to the ocean and all its creatures. emotionally healing me

What should i believe about whether it is real or "benefical to me"


Fundamental Divine Virtue

cant seem to say no to it... having problems :)

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 03:10 AM
IT solves itself from above which is beyond and before.. thats all i can see..


I dont care what you think mate :)

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 03:13 AM
ANd yes i have actually seen and experience the sea world ..

Orcas came to me

Dolphins

amazing :)

there is much spirit :)

MGazonda
26-03-2014, 03:23 AM
IT solves itself from above which is beyond and before.. thats all i can see..


I dont care what you think mate :)

My intent is to share what I see with you. It's your choice whether you want to look or not.

I'm sorry if my words haven't come across well.

MGazonda
26-03-2014, 03:25 AM
I guess I'm reading what you're saying, seeing what you're seeing, and hoping to nudge you a little bit farther...

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 03:27 AM
I apologise..

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 03:39 AM
IM not claiming certainty to you

im not even sure..

Ive spoken to particles and ****.. even tied to do a 2billion light year entanglement test all in my mind

ii just feel primordial energy in me and asking the *Virtue TEST* of the question
?
What if belief triggers evolution and is a positive for myself continuing to go through the current feeling of "Void" is valid?

See what i am saying?

..

only you can see for you only i can see for me

This is what i believe

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 03:55 AM
I am having ascension pain basically .. for the past week i have been trying to "link' particles in my room that form in a cloud .. the electrons in the air around me are communicating with me..

It hurts

... then a feeling comforts me and it becomes self evident that if i were to stop believing in it i would never develop it.. a great light..shows me a direcititons shows me the way ahead and i follow.. i have been experimenting with dimentional thinking for a while now.. cant put it into words.. fragile

Archaic77
26-03-2014, 04:00 AM
actually its not

MGazonda
26-03-2014, 04:07 AM
That sounds really neat :smile: I hope you can put more of it into words.

I've been experiencing a bunch that I can't put into words yet either. And when I've tried, it often goes horribly wrong. So yeah, I get that. It's all good though.

I think many of us are getting different parts of a big puzzle to put together. It's hard enough for us to understand our own parts, let alone others' parts. But we will soon enough.

Lunarvilly
26-03-2014, 03:16 PM
The Physical Mind was not created to understand what 'this' is, the Physical Mind itself is limited. Consciousness is not limited. The mind is simply a tool we have to navigate this particular dimension. Your personality construct (belief systems) create the way in which you experience *this*. 'This' being, whatever you want to define reality as. Much like when you get a new computer and you choose what software to install, what theme to install, etc. Your brain is just a complex, organic computer.

Imagine you are driving a car. It is the job of the mind and of the personality construct to watch the road ahead. It is the job of the higher self to guide the mind to it's final destination. As if your higher self is stood on the mountain top and you are down in the valley. It has a much broader, complete perspective and understanding of the journey as a whole.

The more you try to break down and figure out 'this' with your physical mind, the more confused you will become because it was not designed to understand what 'this' is. There are an endless number of metaphors we can use to describe and compare synchronicity and likeness within the universe. Ultimately it is all just one thing, moving at infinite speed, giving the illusion that it is many things. That 'one thing' being Spirit, or consciousness.

The reality you are experiencing is a projection of your consciousness. Everything is conscious, the rocks, your table, your walls... Because you are everything.

There is no time. Everything is happening right now. It is just a matter of altering your vibration, belief systems, and shifting to that particular reality in which you can experience what it is you desire. By moving into the flow, into the moment, the 'oneness'.. The more power you have to mold and shape your reality into what you wish it to be.

Higher self conceives, physical mind receives and the personality construct perceives. Your higher self being a version of you that exists just outside of physical reality. This is not an exact interpretation, it is simply an idea that the mind can comprehend.

Archaic77
27-03-2014, 03:01 PM
This is an ironic thing, really cool :)

People like us on what scientists would call the "evolutionary ladder"

are the "giraffes who grew the further necks"

So when an entirely illogical atheist uses evolution/science to try to disprove your beliefs you know what to do lol :)

it is divine comedy lol

Archaic77
27-03-2014, 03:04 PM
its like.. you play a game of "chess" with them and they *innately* lose.. rofl (i have seen what happens to the chess pieces.. it is better than any comedy have i have ever seen: )

(and yeah from what i have just experienced it just takes that "link of trust" within you to make the "perfect case" for it and leave him in a infinite regression of illogic.. which is because he basically has to destroy the universe to be proved right or something like that - ( these words come from *wordless thought* and mine has expanded a fair way - so sorry if i have not defined it to you well enough :) ..)

have not been able to stop laughing since last night when this happened on you tube comments lol

Archaic77
27-03-2014, 03:18 PM
and that is so beautiful :) for so many sweet spiritual people :) ..indescribable love there in fact :)

Archaic77
27-03-2014, 09:31 PM
We have a great deal to be "proud" about :)

but also i have found it is a humble sort of pride because.. we are all equal at the same time.. that is the nature i am heading towards anyway since i feel it is the best thing :)

Heard this ages and ages ago, after i started practicing Falun Gong (cos the master of it claimed superiority = i "stole" the practice from him since he said you would stop receiving energy if you did not see him as the master (something like that) and follow his morals code(which held a lot of what i perceived as his personal prejudices))"************ :

"The True Master Promotes the Master in the Other"

Rings very true to me


***********At the same time there *is* a lot of stuff i found to be genuine wisdom within his books

Archaic77
28-03-2014, 08:04 AM
:happy1: For very educational reasons im looking forward to this hehehe:hug3:


Loopy


hehe..

You are right.. the OP is not an absolutely perfect case for the "existence of meaning" or "innate divine nature of the universe" but...

To me it is as good as this milkshake I am drinking, i am no longer struggling with doubt.

To be honest looking through this i think the thread accomplished what i hoped it would :)

So friendly of you also :)


Edit: the thing is right.. only one can teach themselves really :) .. and well.. "testing" someone else's ability to draw from source knowledge is.... problematic and unfair.. i am sure you can see my point :P

so.. sorry... but please excuse me while i have a little chuckle(laugh) at that :)

loopylucid
28-03-2014, 11:31 AM
I think the thread has been very educational, great food for thought and comprehensive, and as far as testing someone elses ability to draw from source knowledge goes, i couldnt agree more, but i do think its nice to chat it out with other view points, which can create greater scopes and open up more in terms of our own expansions and understanding, through it.
All relevant in the end lol

Regardless enjoying the sharings here. And im glad you accomplished what you hoped for :)

Loopy

Eudaimonist
29-03-2014, 07:27 AM
In every atom there are electrons. They exhibit at least rudimentary "awareness".

I have no reason to think that electrons exhibit any form of awareness. As I see it, awareness is an emergent property of brain-like systems, not something that would exist in something as simple as an electron.

I'm afraid that our very different metaphysical views are going to make your arguments unconvincing to me.

Are plants "alive"?

Alive, yes. But I don't associate life with being aware. Awareness is something that may depend on life, but exists in addition to life.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Eudaimonist
29-03-2014, 07:34 AM
@Eudaimonist

And where does the *essential to life* component of air come from?

Air is "star stuff" -- the product of the nuclear fusion of stars. It is essential to life because our biologies depend on oxygen to perform certain needed chemical reactions.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen

Plants...

So come on - they gave you life - can you at least consider that they may have "spirit" ...

I may consider it, but I don't get any kind of sensible argument out of that.

Plants may give me life in the sense that they are both a source of food and of oxygen. I can play with words, and say that if spirit has been taken to mean "air", then plants are a source of (breathable) air, and therefore of spirit. However, I'm pretty sure that when people talk about "spirit", they typically mean far, far more than air.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 07:34 AM
Well..


From what i am experiencing of the electron "field" within my existence .. my own body + solid matter+ air lol.. it is shifting between wave/particle and even (because i am imagining it) becoming both states at once :P (i can see it)

LOL (sorry)

You have to *believe* to be the unseen basically :P

I really do not care how you choose to see it, for that affects only you.. but..in my experience of them it is true :P

im trying not to be nasty mate soz if you take offense.. but you aint seeing what im seeing hehehe :P

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 07:37 AM
Which is why between you and me I am growing my neck further (giraffe metaphor) :)

no offense mate..

total equality

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 07:44 AM
Air is "star stuff" -- the product of the nuclear fusion of stars. It is essential to life because our biologies depend on oxygen to perform certain needed chemical reactions.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen



I may consider it, but I don't get any kind of sensible argument out of that.

Plants may give me life in the sense that they are both a source of food and of oxygen. I can play with words, and say that if spirit has been taken to mean "air", then plants are a source of (breathable) air, and therefore of spirit. However, I'm pretty sure that when people talk about "spirit", they typically mean far, far more than air.


eudaimonia,

Mark


Edit: i read that wrong, apologies.

Well.. i have experienced them "talking" (it is another language, cant describe it) to me.. i love them so i give them spirit :)

and... i am not really using words to define things at the moment because im in "wordless thought"

what is a word?

At the origin point of the current universe the essential energy was probably definable by the word spirit.. not sure.. but if you take it back that far it seems to be .. at least in my mind.

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 07:45 AM
You are negative too :(

it is bad for you while you are developing i have found

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 08:01 AM
Just start looking for them (electrons) i would suggest... it can hurt.. but .. they literally shatter the "illusion" for you :)

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 08:16 AM
electron:

Dual state: solid/particle .. wave/immaterial (like light)
within the shells of the atoms they are everywhere at once..


i mean seriously .. you have not taken in the implications of that?

And the fact that they switch with your awareness... :P

again i apologize.. but LOL

Archaic77
29-03-2014, 08:25 AM
the problem with it is... It can really hurt :(

but i have been getting used to it more and more and it seems to offer me unlimited freedom..

Archaic77
30-03-2014, 02:20 PM
Which is why between you and me I am growing my neck further (giraffe metaphor) :)

no offense mate..

total equality


I feel bad about that now mate... :)

anyone can do it.. we all have "innate aspects".

And all ("everything" - after karma - transformation - rebirth) are like a shining singularity when it comes to the equality of the totals "virtue"

does that make sense?

you are your own master..

Everything is cleansed.

Archaic77
30-03-2014, 02:22 PM
the problem with it is... It can really hurt :(

but i have been getting used to it more and more and it seems to offer me unlimited freedom..


also.. the wings of a butterfly can have the strangest affect... :)

Archaic77
16-07-2014, 01:17 PM
i am just returning here too make an amendment about my comments on Falun Gong.... (the master claiming superiority statement i made)

i have found that i had confused a mixture of his teachings with a little bit of deceptive propaganda

the master recommends only One way... i had a hard time accepting that.. and when i came across articles that indicated deceptive information to me this idea became convoluted..

Everything sort of becomes the Way after a while ;) or the Tao

The master Li Hongzhi is indeed a wonderful, dear hearted and kind individual and is actually humble.


I will always love , admire and respect him for the information and method he provided me and so many others

within China.. to this day they are persecuting , organ harvesting and targetting my dear brothers and sisters of this practice (it is not a religion)

They will always have my heart!

and i am proud to say i can call them my family.. as are all... really :)