Absolute Nothingness

[pre-dawn]

Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?

What is left then?

Maybe just an encounter, human being to human being.

[CuriousSnowflake]

I think that might be a bit too much to ask. All that is really needed for dialogue is the acceptance of the chance that we may not have all the answers. And in all honesty, what's wrong with disagreeing? Disagreement is merely a statement of self-definition; I am this, not that. It is impossible for us to agree upon absolutely everything, since that can only happen if we cease to be individual. In this way, you are right, Absolute Nothingness is the only way to come to perfect agreement. Yet Absolute Nothingness would also mean there would be no other with which to have a dialogue. This may well be the true nature of All That IS, but such a state kinda negates the purpose of being human, which is to perceive separateness and use it to self-define.

So therefore I say, bring on the disagreements. Just keep 'em civil.

CS

[whiteride]

When we becomes I and the answer is yes for every I, so the question need not be asked, but the answer simply done, then we are prepared.

What is left then? Everyone who answers yes in the doing.
What is done then? What will be done.

[Mathew James]

I like the idea of starting over with a blank slate. In some ways maybe that is what this forum does. It gives everyone an equal voice.

[aladdin]

if they abandoned "all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas" then they would not be members of their religions. so that doesnt make any sense. nice try though...

[Shabda]

if they abandoned "all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas" then they would not be members of their religions. so that doesnt make any sense. nice try though...
judging again?? lol...nice try though...

[aladdin]

judging again?? lol...nice try though...

yes absolutely. my religion requires me to judge. its an essential element. thanks...

[psychoslice]

yes absolutely. my religion requires me to judge. its an essential element. thanks...
What on earth is your Religion ?.

[tragblack]

Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.

Sounds good.

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?

Sure. :smile:

What is left then?

*Would respond, but has no concept of language.*

[aladdin]

What on earth is your Religion ?.

wow if you havent noticed yet... every religion judges between true and false beliefs. wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Shabda]

yes absolutely. my religion requires me to judge. its an essential element. thanks...
is it??? lol...i suppose you can have it then...i may disagree, but i wont deprive you of your crutch...

[psychoslice]

wow if you havent noticed yet... every religion judges between true and false beliefs. wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Oh well your nothing to wast time over then, carry on.

[aladdin]

lollllllllllllll

[Shabda]

lollllllllllllll
i guess lols work when you have no answer...

[ROM]

Everything old must come down before the new can be built up.

[Kismet]

Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?

What is left then?

Maybe just an encounter, human being to human being.

There is no such thing as a perfect blank. That is a post-Enlightenment fable.

[Member]

Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.
Yes!

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?
Yes Yes!!

What is left then?
Maybe just an encounter, human being to human being.
And you lost me. =/

[athribiristan]

Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.

I can agree with that.

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?

Truly, nothing would please me more.

What is left then?

Maybe just an encounter, human being to human being.

Let us discuss Absolute Nothingness then....

I propose that this must indeed be the beginning of everything. Which explains all the rest very nicely by means of this tidbit of rather Alice in Wonderlandian logic:

If nothing exists, then everything is possibility. Within Possibility all things have their beginning.

[Iku-Turso]

CS: I think that might be a bit too much to ask. All that is really needed for dialogue is the acceptance of the chance that we may not have all the answers. And in all honesty, what's wrong with disagreeing? Disagreement is merely a statement of self-definition; I am this, not that. It is impossible for us to agree upon absolutely everything, since that can only happen if we cease to be individual. In this way, you are right, Absolute Nothingness is the only way to come to perfect agreement. Yet Absolute Nothingness would also mean there would be no other with which to have a dialogue. This may well be the true nature of All That IS, but such a state kinda negates the purpose of being human, which is to perceive separateness and use it to self-define.


This is exactly how I feel.

[gentledove]

CS: I think that might be a bit too much to ask. All that is really needed for dialogue is the acceptance of the chance that we may not have all the answers. And in all honesty, what's wrong with disagreeing? Disagreement is merely a statement of self-definition; I am this, not that. It is impossible for us to agree upon absolutely everything, since that can only happen if we cease to be individual. In this way, you are right, Absolute Nothingness is the only way to come to perfect agreement. Yet Absolute Nothingness would also mean there would be no other with which to have a dialogue. This may well be the true nature of All That IS, but such a state kinda negates the purpose of being human, which is to perceive separateness and use it to self-define.

This seems most sensible to me.

God isn't void, God is Light and Light as far as I experienced it is consciousness and love (which is a powerful energy which arouses feeling).

Wondering if God created "void" by separating self into parts/aspects, imo. Void would be the "nothingness" between these differing objects/identities. If God is all that exists, how can that be?

Maybe if there is an illusion it would be that nothing exists between separate objects or individuals. Perhaps it's more our current lack of perceptive abilities than an illusion though.

If everything is consciousness, then perhaps God had a concept of not-God, or unconsciousness? So maybe the void is less/lowered consciousness/light to the point of apparent (to us) darkness? And the various colors and textures are the Light refracted into differing frequencies and all the matter we see is slowed and condensed light? This would easily be possible if the Light (and everything else) is consciousness.

Anyway, I think I understand what the OP is saying, that we should all "throw in" our beliefs and start again, but there's muuuuuch wisdom in ancient teachings so why throw out the baby with the bathwater? However, if someone feels guided to do that for themselves, then that can be a very powerful way to begin again...tabula rasa and all that.:smile:

Also there's tremendous conditioning which creates attachments so powerful they will probably only be cut through by personal realization.

Also there's individuality which we might as well honor because it's obviously so prevalent and therefore might be part of a plan (for those who believe God has a plan). Or it must be part of nature's plan for those who believe that.

For those who believe there's no plan/intent...what can I say?:tongue: If you've made even one shopping list then the universe isn't entirely random/chaotic.

God is love...I've experienced it, so that's not negotiable to me. I realize and accept that my epiphanies may be nothing more than fannies to others.:wink:

I still have many questions and so maybe that's why I'm hangin' out here.:hug3:

[gentledove]

Everything old must come down before the new can be built up.

How can the "new" arise without some foundation?

[gentledove]

If nothing exists, then everything is possibility. Within Possibility all things have their beginning.

If nothing exists, then how can anything have a beginning? A beginning would suggest existence. Am curious...:smile:

[pre-dawn]

If nothing exists, then how can anything have a beginning? A beginning would suggest existence. Am curious...:smile:
You may have fallen into the usual trap of nihilism. Absolute nothingness, and by the same token the Buddhist void, does not negate existence. It negates all thoughts about existence.
Absolute nothingness is a total absence of thought, notions, feelings, beliefs and mental activity. From this point one can see that it is us who make everything up, including all disagreements.

[astroboy]

Originally Posted by pre-dawn
Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?

What is left then?

Maybe just an encounter, human being to human being.

My answer is No. Read the following verse from SGGS Page 290

When this world had not yet appeared in any form,
who then committed sins and performed good deeds?
When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi,
then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?
When there was no color or shape to be seen,
then who experienced joy and sorrow?
When the Supreme Lord Himself was Himself All-in-all,
then where was emotional attachment, and who had doubts?
He Himself has staged His own drama;
O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||

When there was only God the Master,
then who was called bound or liberated?
When there was only the Lord, Unfathomable and Infinite,
then who entered hell, and who entered heaven?
When God was without attributes, in absolute poise,
then where was mind and where was matter?
When He held His Own Light unto Himself,
then who was fearless, and who was afraid?
He Himself is the Performer in His own plays;
O Nanak, the Lord Master is Unfathomable and Infinite. ||2||

[athribiristan]

If nothing exists, then how can anything have a beginning? A beginning would suggest existence. Am curious...:smile:

Within the Void/Possibility, it can be said that nothing exists, thus the Void. But by virtue of that fact, everything is relegated to the realm of possibility; because nothing exists in fact it can ONLY exist as possibility. In the Void, nothing IS, but all things are possible.

Another popular word for Void is Chaos. I see creation following this broad pattern:

In the beginning was the Void. Most all creation myths agree on this and it makes logical sense if you stick with it long enough.

From the void arose other things. Within the realm of Possibility, there is the possibility of consciousness, among other things. There is the possibility that that consciousness will be presented with the choice to exist or not. There is the possibility that it will choose to exist. Once that happens we have moved back into familiar territory with God/Source asking itself 'Who/what am I?'

We, and this universe, are the process of that question resolving itself.

Now I'm not saying its a perfect theory, only that it makes more sense to me than anything else I've read or thought up. I really can't find a more primal concept than possibility. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

[Sentientno1]

pre Dawn..."Absolute nothingness is a total absence of thought, notions, feelings, beliefs and mental activity. From this point one can see that it is us who make everything up, including all disagreements."

Would like to accomodate you but among the realisers of no thing there is nothing to talk about, unless you want to talk about adjustment to freefall.( ?)

sentient no 1

[pre-dawn]

pre Dawn..."Absolute nothingness is a total absence of thought, notions, feelings, beliefs and mental activity. From this point one can see that it is us who make everything up, including all disagreements."

Would like to accomodate you but among the realisers of no thing there is nothing to talk about, unless you want to talk about adjustment to freefall.( ?)
There is nothing to talk about, however it may still require action, there are a few things to do, no matter how realised one is.

The trouble is that the non-realisers of no thing want to talk to me and ask questions. Social etiquette, and we are social beings, may demand a response. The action in this case may be to talk or compose and send a post.

[Sentientno1]

predawn: "
"The trouble is that the non-realisers of no thing want to talk to me and ask questions. Social etiquette, and we are social beings, may demand a response. The action in this case may be to talk or compose and send a post."

First off Dawn, if you feel ANYTHING is required you had best check your realisation. if you believe we are social beings, check your realisation. If you are hurt, angry or depressed over this response, check your realisation. i am not trying to denigate you, am trying to warn you about the most insidiouse thing a person can experience in any quest, self deception. it will stop even the most sincere and focused dead in thier tracks.

If you still want to talk to me you can do it on the forum or by pm. The choice is yours.

[pre-dawn]

predawn: "
"The trouble is that the non-realisers of no thing want to talk to me and ask questions. Social etiquette, and we are social beings, may demand a response. The action in this case may be to talk or compose and send a post."

First off Dawn, if you feel ANYTHING is required you had best check your realisation. if you believe we are social beings, check your realisation. If you are hurt, angry or depressed over this response, check your realisation. i am not trying to denigate you, am trying to warn you about the most insidiouse thing a person can experience in any quest, self deception. it will stop even the most sincere and focused dead in thier tracks.

If you still want to talk to me you can do it on the forum or by pm. The choice is yours. Why would you want to take a discussion into the space of pm's? What do you want to say that cannot be said in the public space?

The requirements after realisation are the requirements of physical existence, iow the body. You still need food and a place to sleep. That probably means work of some sorts, and in order to work one has to get along with other people. Our life is more than just mental and the realisations one may have in that realm. That's all.

I am OK with you thinking I am not realised. One more of your mental ruminations which you say are not required. How come it is there?

[Gem]

It's a good idea pre-dawn... be as nothing and talk from there, because people talk as representitives of something else, to uphold something else, and these fall into conflict where one compromizes the other.

Conflict is like a refusal to compromise.

Trust is the issue too. The biggest issue of all. In the world no-one trusts 'America' but America isn't even a person, it's a front that people feel obliged to lie for (and even die for), something to uphold... but no body is there, it's a facade, someone made it up, so who is there to trust?

[NightSpirit]

hmm...interesting thread and posts.

smiling at interaction between aladdin and psychoslice

:smile:

[NightSpirit]

It's a good idea pre-dawn... be as nothing and talk from there, because people talk as representitives of something else, to uphold something else, and these fall into conflict where one compromizes the other.

Conflict is like a refusal to compromise.

Trust is the issue too. The biggest issue of all. In the world no-one trusts 'America' but America isn't even a person, it's a front that people feel obliged to lie for (and even die for), something to uphold... but no body is there, it's a facade, someone made it up, so who is there to trust?

interesting thoughts Gem.

Can we ever be a nothing? I reckon no matter how hard one tries, the shell that is me will always display some thing?

I like the bit on America...same..same everywhere. So then, one can really only trust in oneself?

[Gem]

interesting thoughts Gem.

Can we ever be a nothing? I reckon no matter how hard one tries, the shell that is me will always display some thing?

I like the bit on America...same..same everywhere. So then, one can really only trust in oneself?

I'm not talking about perfections, only the degrees of things, and when the leaders of nations meet to decide on the lies they will tell the world, to agree to lie like that, there stands a threat as any one who stands true will have all things torn away from him... except a very small iota, the smallest measure of integrity.

[Sentientno1]

predawn: "Why would you want to take a discussion into the space of pm's? What do you want to say that cannot be said in the public space?"

you will notice i said the choice was YOURS. It was offered as a choice in case you might feel discomfort discussing some things publicly.

Predawn: "Our life is more than just mental and the realisations one may have in that realm." if you experienced the void then you'd know that life ( i take it you are talking about phenomenal life ) is not more then that.

Post realisation:Eating, working, thinking, and communicating is by impetus only, it is not a REQUIREMENT, anything other then that is role playing by choice because there is no reason TO do it,and no reason not to do it.

"One more of your mental ruminations which you say are not required. How come it is there?"

It's there because the body and mind and this appearance of life is a puppet for sensient awareness, didn't you know? if the void had even been touched ths would have been known, and it would have been know immediatly, by you, that you had used an inaccurate phrase in your initial post to me. It may have been overlooked as nothing more then a difficulty of expression for a newly realised, except for your insistance.

If you wish to think you are realised, i will leave you to it.


Gem: "Conflict is like a refusal to compromise." i will not compromise, this is yet another appearance in the drama called life, there is always a sense of awe at the many ways and varieties role playing "I' will manifest. But there is no emotional investment, nothing more needs said in this, so there will be no conflict.

[NightSpirit]

I'm not talking about perfections, only the degrees of things, and when the leaders of nations meet to decide on the lies they will tell the world, to agree to lie like that, there stands a threat as any one who stands true will have all things torn away from him... except a very small iota, the smallest measure of integrity.

I don't understand...how can one be as nothing yet not be perfect in that? Adopting degrees keeps us where we already are.

In a dual world there will always be lies and their equal..truth. If all is stripped away to the point I'm assuming you speak of, then this world will disappear...poooffff! Do I care about that happening? Not really.

[NightSpirit]

What is all this talk about 'realised'? Am not sure what the individual may class as 'realised'. To realise anything means there has to be comparison to something. If we're talking 'nothing', then no comparisons exist.

[athribiristan]

I'm not talking about perfections, only the degrees of things, and when the leaders of nations meet to decide on the lies they will tell the world, to agree to lie like that, there stands a threat as any one who stands true will have all things torn away from him... except a very small iota, the smallest measure of integrity.

That all comes down to how much an individual is willing to give up. They can only take your power if you give it to them.

[athribiristan]

What is all this talk about 'realised'? Am not sure what the individual may class as 'realised'. To realise anything means there has to be comparison to something. If we're talking 'nothing', then no comparisons exist.

In this instance I believe it is being used to denote someone who has experienced the Void, or a state of nothingness.

[athribiristan]

How can the "new" arise without some foundation?

Indeed, that IS the question. How DID this something new that we call existence arise without some foundation?

[NightSpirit]

In this instance I believe it is being used to denote someone who has experienced the Void, or a state of nothingness.

I hear what your saying ath..but in this instance..sorry, I don't believe it. It is those that have experienced it that don't spruke about it.

[NightSpirit]

Indeed, that IS the question. How DID this something new that we call existence arise without some foundation?

Because it doesn't need foundation to arise.

[athribiristan]

I hear what your saying ath..but in this instance..sorry, I don't believe it. It is those that have experienced it that don't spruke about it.

Thus my silence on the matter :wink:

[NightSpirit]

Thus my silence on the matter :wink:

Cheers :wink:

[Bluegreen]

God isn't void, God is Light and Light as far as I experienced it is consciousness and love (which is a powerful energy which arouses feeling).

Wondering if God created "void" by separating self into parts/aspects, imo. Void would be the "nothingness" between these differing objects/identities. If God is all that exists, how can that be?


If by God you mean the God of this universe, then no, He did not create the Void. He emanated from the Void.

I posted on the Void and added links where people told of experiencing the Void. "...and darkness was upon the face of the deep" in the Christianity forum.

The following quote is similar to astroboy's #24 post.

1. The eternal parent wrapped in her ever invisible robes had slumbered once again for seven eternities.

2. Time was not, for it lay asleep in the infinite bosom of duration.

3. Universal mind was not, for there were no Ah-hi [celestial beings] to contain it.

4. The seven ways to bliss were not. The great causes of misery were not, for there was no one to produce and get ensnared by them.

5. Darkness alone filled the boundless all, for father, mother and son were once more one, and the son had not awakened yet for the new wheel, and his pilgrimage thereon.

6. The seven sublime lords and the seven truths had ceased to be, and the Universe, the son of Necessity, was immersed in Paranishpanna [absolute perfection] , to be outbreathed by that which is and yet is not. Naught was.

7. The causes of existence had been done away with; the visible that was, and the invisible that is, rested in eternal non-being — the one being.

8. Alone the one form of existence stretched boundless, infinite, causeless, in dreamless sleep; and life pulsated unconscious in universal space, throughout that all-presence which is sensed by the opened eye of the Dangma [purified soul].

9. But where was the Dangma when the Alaya [universal soul] of the universe was in Paramartha [absolute being] and the great wheel was Anupadaka [one with eternal space]?

Mellen-Thomas Benedict: "I can tell you this now: the Void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The Void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is Absolute Consciousness; much more than even Universal Intelligence."

[A. Consumer]

The Prophet of Life says: "If you wish to walk a spiritual pah, leave your ego at the beginning of your journey."