Frustrating Encounters with an Ego-Driven Society

[AstralJosh]

Hi All,

This is less of a complaint and more of a discussion on encounters you and i have had and
how they may be resolved for easier, less artificial communication from person to person.

Gradually through meditation and Zen i feel i am getting in touch with the true me, the me
with no flaws, nothing to prove/do/achieve etc.. Like the natural self.

As i deepen this practise it seems like i can see clearly 'through' people, if that makes sense.
All attempts by their ego to shroud their true feelings or true compulsions seem artificial
and forced. Even in regular, day-to-day conversation, look at someone, i mean really look at them,
try to see the light in their eyes and you will see their gaze shift, a part of them knows you
are trying to see the real them and it will avert your gaze. This is not meant as a judgement
upon them, that they should change, or that they are not acting in a way that seems
natural to them in that moment, it's simply an observation from someone on a different wavelength
than them.

One great philosopher once said 'Oh come off it shiva, i know its you, why are you hiding?!'
in a fun jokey manner.

This sums it up quite well, obviously for there to be those who are awakened, you need
those who are unawakened, but this paradigm shift is proving difficult for me to integrate
into 'usual' conversation and connection patterns.

For example, how is it possible for me to date a women who is embarrassed/unaware
about her body/mental and bodily functions/true feelings/desires/'Real Self'?
It is not really feasible. Now i wish to keep the can of worms closed so i will say this is simply an example
of when someone allows society to program their belief/role, not to do with objectification
or previous trauma or mental state stemming from childhood/abuse. This discussion is
purely about your average person with a 'regular' upbringing and how communicating
deeply with them is extremely difficult, they cannot even communicate with themselves.

Where do you start? Can you simply ask someone 'No, i'd like to speak to the REAL you now'
Very difficult, especially in relationships.

I am only 22 and i already predict i am going to have great difficulties for the next 5 years or
so in terms of meeting someone in my vibration. But then again, nothing is certain.

So what are your experiences with the topics i have mentioned and how do you see a new form
of communication bridging the gap between our vibration levels?

[Adrienne]

Where do you start? Can you simply ask someone 'No, i'd like to speak to the REAL you now'
Very difficult, especially in relationships.

I am only 22 and i already predict i am going to have great difficulties for the next 5 years or
so in terms of meeting someone in my vibration. But then again, nothing is certain.

Hello Astral Josh,

And what is your rush, you are only 22 as you say ? What is wrong with starting out with basic conversation, versus jumping immediately into deep communication ? Perhaps not everyone is comfortable jumping into deep conversations when first meeting someone ? Sometimes it takes a little time to get to know a person, with a few basics before moving the conversation into deeper waters.

I know there are probably some that are comfortable with the deep conversations as soon as they meet someone, and these probably call themselves the enlightened ones or awakened ones , hmmmmm .......perhaps there is the feeling of themselves being a bit superior to those regular souls one comes in contact with ?

sometimes it seems to me the blaming of the ego for everything is perhaps overrated, or at least, placed on the wrong foot ?

[Mr Interesting]

I'm back doing markets where I get all my old artworks out into the public and then sit around for 6 - 8 hrs and be the seller of those artworks and basically watch all the people. I've only done one day so far but towards the end of that day my offsider, who I share the stall with, and the woman accross the way ended up doing all sorts of physical exercises, a kind of childish show and tell, which kept us amused for quite a while. This woman though said one very interesting thing which I remember.

It's that when you have exercised in the past and reached a level of fitness and then lose it then it's easier to regain the fitness than it is for those who had never reached those kinds of levels.

And then is there no reason why this might not apply to spirituality?

That while we sit in our cave on the hillside miles from civilisation raising our awareness and contemplate going back into mainstream society would we attempt to raise the levels of others to us or might we joyessly lower ourselves down into the mire?

After my one day, and after feeling sore after all the exercise, I look forward to going back and balancing somehow between my ability to sit within my own peace of mind but also to go out and engage all the people in whatever way springs to mind.

But it has long been a bone of contention as I've always been one to sprint ahead in abandon and find myself miles away from those I started with and wonder why I always find myself right next to people but somehow miles away at the same time... and I don't even try.

I ended up at one stage doing nothing for a few years, well off on another track anyways, then when I came back to what normally drives me it felt like enough time had passed that I was somehow behind the game and that if I timed things right I would end up at a place where the timing of society met my own and there would be a meeting of sorts... and it worked, but only for a short time then I was suddenly miles ahead again.

I would say then that it's not about having anyone catchup or become suddenly available to our supposed plight but to just keep being yourself in a way that suits you.

Myself, I've been waiting to get into this particular context for ages and now after only one day it seems I'm welcomed for my eccentricity alone, that though I make no money and survive regardless, I am needed in some way no one, even myself, can voice yet, but regardless there seems to be a role I can play... a playful role that appeals to my playfulness.

I may get into trouble... I may not but it's all about fun so fun I will have.

[Yaoughta]

The first thing I recommend, is STOP thinking that you'll have great difficulties for the next five years or so in terms of meeting someone. Instead, trust, know and believe that the perfect person for you is out there. You seem rather advanced in your thinking given your age and I can understand that it may seem like a challenge to meet someone who knows where you're coming from, but believe me, they're out there.

As far as how to get someone to be real or asking them to be real, you certainly can, but probably with varying degrees of success. It is sort of like the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". The horse has got to want to be REAL and it also has to be READY to be real.

One of the first things that many people on a spiritual journey of SELF discovery seek to do is to try and help everyone and share their new found wisdom and understanding with everyone. However, one of things that also must be learned, is that it isn't your job to save everyone, or help them or get them to see the light. There is only so much you can do. Again, the horse has to WANT to be helped and many don't.

A good rule of thumb to follow is that when you want better for someone than they want for themselves, the best thing to do is bless them and let them be. When they are ready, they will seek and they will drink. Until then, accept them, love them and judge not.

The house of SELF is a rather large house and there is much cleaning to be done. Right when you think you've gotten your own house to a point where its pretty clean, something comes along to show you otherwise. Everyone keeps a different house. The more you have your house in order it does become easier to see the dirt in others or the EGO or phoniness, but it is not your job to get them to clean it. Like the horse, they will clean it when they're ready. Until then, bless them.

[revolver]

When one has awaken they still go along playing life, or still playing the actor just as everyone else is doing. I don't see why its hard, especially if you are truly awake, in fact life should be a great comedy for you as it is for me. Don't take it too seriously, you know they are already where you are, they cannot be anywhere else.

[livingkarma]

Hello Astral Josh,

And what is your rush, you are only 22 as you say ? What is wrong with starting out with basic conversation, versus jumping immediately into deep communication ? Perhaps not everyone is comfortable jumping into deep conversations when first meeting someone ? Sometimes it takes a little time to get to know a person, with a few basics before moving the conversation into deeper waters.

I know there are probably some that are comfortable with the deep conversations as soon as they meet someone, and these probably call themselves the enlightened ones or awakened ones , hmmmmm .......perhaps there is the feeling of themselves being a bit superior to those regular souls one comes in contact with ?

sometimes it seems to me the blaming of the ego for everything is perhaps overrated, or at least, placed on the wrong foot ?


I agree ...
No one should be made to feel they have to share anything/everthing about themself if they choose not to ...
Its a matter of trust as well as privacy ...
One must also be awake to people; their comfort level ...
Sadly, the age of technology has created a great many people who are socially inept as well as those who want everything NOW ...

It is also quite easy for a person to become egotistical about newfound abilities as well as use them to gain superiority over another or to judge or try to change others by thinking they are enlightening them or know better ...
It all may seem harmless,, but its not - its rude & uncalled for to force one's will/desires upon another person ...
I never encourage people to do things I find to be inappropriate ...

I immediately stopped listening & conversing w/the last person who tried that on me; it was far too easy to see what he was up to ...
There was no point in trying to get him to shut up or stand down ...
Eventually I had to move to another table due to the discomfort this supposed celestial being created, his several lame attempts to apologize & ridiculous reasons for wanting to get to know me on a spiritual level ...
Personally, I just wanted to punch him in the mouth ...

A date or social encounter should never be more than an exchange of pleasant conversation & sharing a nice time together w/out expectations ...
As more time is spent together one has the opportunity to learn about the person to gauge what is acceptable to ask as well as find out their history, likes & dislikes ...
Its best to date the old fashioned way by using patience, investing time in getting to know the person & creating trust to feel comfortable w/you ...
Rushing anything is never a good idea or ticking people off a list b/c they don't meet one's unreasonable criteria ...
Take a step back, re-think what it is you desire & if you truly want it give it an honest effort to acquire it ...
Good luck ...
************************************************** ********
Nothing, but the truth - no icing or sugar coating ...

[wstein]

As i deepen this practise it seems like i can see clearly 'through' people, if that makes sense. All attempts by their ego to shroud their true feelings or true compulsions seem artificial and forced. Yes, those dominated by ego are easy to spot and it’s easy to see through ego’s posturing. Be careful about being judgmental about their choice of how to live. It’s all an illusion anyway, who is to say that your illusion is any better than their illusion.

obviously for there to be those who are awakened, you need those who are unawakened, Looking to others as a reference or to define self is not the way of those awakened.

For example, how is it possible for me to date a women who is embarrassed/unaware about her body/mental and bodily functions/true feelings/desires/'Real Self'? It is not really feasible. No matter what one’s way to live is, successful relationships require compatibility. For the most part that needs to be based on similarity (but not identical copies).

Where do you start? Can you simply ask someone 'No, i'd like to speak to the REAL you now' Very difficult, especially in relationships. You need to find those that match who you are. You can’t change anyone else and it harmful to both of you to try. The best way is to show your nature and hope to be recognized. Though rare in my experience, awakened individuals are not hard to spot.

I am only 22 and i already predict i am going to have great difficulties for the next 5 years or so in terms of meeting someone in my vibration. As will all minorities, meeting others like yourself is difficult.

[wstein]

What is wrong with starting out with basic conversation, versus jumping immediately into deep communication ? Perhaps not everyone is comfortable jumping into deep conversations when first meeting someone ? Sometimes it takes a little time to get to know a person, with a few basics before moving the conversation into deeper waters. Answering for myself here:

One can jabber with a whole lot of ego driven people and be no closer to finding what one wants, they extremely rarely have anything else in the sense desired. That suggestion is like telling someone to chat up a bunch of lesbians in hope that one actually likes men and is too shy to show it. It's not impossible, just unrealistic.

While not everyone is willing to show their 'deeper' side immediately, some hint of it needs to be showing. Most of the time, the pattern of a relation ship is set early on. What you start with tends to form the basis for future interaction. As per the issue here, that means not engaging in ego based behavior (or whatever else yo don't want). So while jumping into the deep end right off might not be the best idea, one needs to start in a place of interest (to you).

[A human Being]

Drop your expectations of how other people should behave - it's not fair to impose your standards of behaviour on others, and it'll only cause frustration, because an awful lot of the time they're going to act in ways of which you disapprove.

Get your own house in order, and don't worry about others. Give, and you shall receive.

[Morpheus]

Jesus said, "What is that to you? Follow me..."

What they don't tell you is that Ego is a result of our animal/mammal origins, carnal aspect, and related with the, "Reptilian Brain".

http://www.buffalostate.edu/orgs/bcp/brainbasics/triune.html (http://www.buffalostate.edu/orgs/bcp/brainbasics/triune.html)


However, regarding the actual and real situation, we are more and other than merely our evolutionary, animal/mammal situation.
Apart from the contruct of time and space.

[Astro]

try to see the light in their eyes and you will see their gaze shift, a part of them knows you
are trying to see the real them and it will avert your gaze. This is not meant as a judgement

Gazing or staring someone in the eye can also be seen as aggression.

You are at the beginning of your adult life, just be patient with yourself and others.

[Black Sheep]

Where do you start? Can you simply ask someone 'No, i'd like to speak to the REAL you now'
Very difficult, especially in relationships.I can really relate. But I'll answer with another question, how can they speak from the real them when they can't or don't recognize it themselves? I will say that what you encountered isn't limit to young folks, it really seems like quite a bit of the populace are like how you've mentioned.

I've had similar problems, in a more general interaction kinda way. It's tough, there's a lot of superficial talk, posturing, repetition, etc. that goes on. Sometimes, I'll sit and wait for them to open that door and cross it(most of which just get stuck in their scripts) or ready to dive into the heart of the matter, I'm happy for those that do, but when they don't(which is typical) I try to work on deep listening, and my own stuff that may rise as a result.

I'd suggest though to not waste your time on those who aren't real or whatnot; and move on. Try and keep a chin up. And use those moments where the frustrations, expectations, and judgements arise as a way to understand yourself more. :D

[tainamom]

Using my experience, I will explain a bit.

I started my spiritual quest about 10 years ago, but it took off 5 years ago.

Husband and I are on some very serious different wavelengths. He refused to join me. We were coming to crossroads so many times in the last five years. He just kept commanding me to stop what I was doing. I refused and stated that if he wants, he can divorce me. It never came to pass.

After 4 years of this, he decided to give it a try and he stopped. He felt it wasn't for him. At that point I finally gave up on pushing him.

I've continued on my spiritual path and learned that he had his own. I learned that I'm not going to stop on account of his fears or mine. I must respect what I have with him and he must respect me. On this fifth year, I'm happier now with our relationship: how it developed over the years. I've never been happier. Yes, I still desire that he tags along, but I've also learned that he grows spiritually too when I grow spiritually (I love to call that "infiltration") So grateful for the gifts of Love received for myself and my family.

[TruthSatnaam]

Hi All,

This is less of a complaint and more of a discussion on encounters you and i have had and
how they may be resolved for easier, less artificial communication from person to person.

Gradually through meditation and Zen i feel i am getting in touch with the true me, the me
with no flaws, nothing to prove/do/achieve etc.. Like the natural self.

As i deepen this practise it seems like i can see clearly 'through' people, if that makes sense.
All attempts by their ego to shroud their true feelings or true compulsions seem artificial
and forced. Even in regular, day-to-day conversation, look at someone, i mean really look at them,
try to see the light in their eyes and you will see their gaze shift, a part of them knows you
are trying to see the real them and it will avert your gaze. This is not meant as a judgement
upon them, that they should change, or that they are not acting in a way that seems
natural to them in that moment, it's simply an observation from someone on a different wavelength
than them.

One great philosopher once said 'Oh come off it shiva, i know its you, why are you hiding?!'
in a fun jokey manner.

This sums it up quite well, obviously for there to be those who are awakened, you need
those who are unawakened, but this paradigm shift is proving difficult for me to integrate
into 'usual' conversation and connection patterns.

For example, how is it possible for me to date a women who is embarrassed/unaware
about her body/mental and bodily functions/true feelings/desires/'Real Self'?
It is not really feasible. Now i wish to keep the can of worms closed so i will say this is simply an example
of when someone allows society to program their belief/role, not to do with objectification
or previous trauma or mental state stemming from childhood/abuse. This discussion is
purely about your average person with a 'regular' upbringing and how communicating
deeply with them is extremely difficult, they cannot even communicate with themselves.

Where do you start? Can you simply ask someone 'No, i'd like to speak to the REAL you now'
Very difficult, especially in relationships.

I am only 22 and i already predict i am going to have great difficulties for the next 5 years or
so in terms of meeting someone in my vibration. But then again, nothing is certain.

So what are your experiences with the topics i have mentioned and how do you see a new form
of communication bridging the gap between our vibration levels?


Lol I get what youre saying completely. Ego is fear, the majority of people around u live in fear and cant comprehend freedom of choice, they only know the gimmick of society.

To know and be yourself is breaking through the fear and societies expectations of us- its freedom and many find someone living free very intimidating. Many may even slander u as a fear mechanism. I **** loads of people off, many feel uncomfortable when I look at them, they cant understand my energy- its controversial.

But sometimes u get that lovely person who smiles in reaction to it- there are a few out there who have good souls and will feel the love n light your spreading and living in service of. Stay real- dont sell yourself out to the game.

Everythings karma, if u truly know yourself, you'll realise that u are the centre of the universe, that there is no image, ur alone in Truth so never get too attached to a karma (relationship) but learn the lessons it teaches if u get into one.

Gods making u see the truth behind the psychology of others(the falsity) to help u detach and go deeper into truth. God Bless you

[Seawolf]

So what are your experiences with the topics i have mentioned and how do you see a new form
of communication bridging the gap between our vibration levels? [/COLOR]
Realize you're not any different than 'them'. 'They' are you. There is no great gap, we just imagine it. If people don't seem right to you, that's a good indication you share the same faults you see in them. Work on it yourself and you will begin to see others differently.

There's a certain amount of high-mindedness in spirituality which is just delusion.. very characteristic of human beings. It's easy for us to do, that's why so many of us do it. Most of what humans think is delusion, so I try not to put much faith in my own conclusions about how spiritually advanced I am.

Much of religion and spirituality is about letting go of the parts of us that cause pain and trouble, and having faith in whatever higher power/ teachings / practice to assist in letting go. But it's not easy to let go, it's so hard that even when we think we've let go, we probably haven't at all.

Or in modern terms, when we think we're not in 'ego', we probably are. Especially when we see everyone else that way except ourselves, that's a pretty good sign something is wrong.

[Better known as Jo]

Drop your expectations of how other people should behave - it's not fair to impose your standards of behaviour on others, and it'll only cause frustration, because an awful lot of the time they're going to act in ways of which you disapprove.

Get your own house in order, and don't worry about others. Give, and you shall receive.

Perfect.

The first sentence should be a bumper sticker.

[Better known as Jo]

Drop your expectations of how other people should behave - it's not fair to impose your standards of behaviour on others, and it'll only cause frustration, because an awful lot of the time they're going to act in ways of which you disapprove.

Get your own house in order, and don't worry about others. Give, and you shall receive.

Perfect.

The first sentence should be a bumper sticker.