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pre-dawn
14-11-2010, 04:49 AM
‎The following paragraph is a summary of some lengthy reflections in another forum which included amongst other religions/faiths, a look at Wicca.

"No conflict between science and religion. Both have the identical aim. But each by itself is insufficient and helpless. They have been tried separately with unsatisfactory results."

My reply was the following:

So we are basically stuffed. What will bringing them together add which we have not already?

IMO, the failure is due the the same reason the Wiccan Rede is not a good guideline.
The 'do as you will' is so good at rationalizing, or ignoring the 'harm no one' that the former will almost always trump the latter.

Any comments from Wiccan's about how they keep the 'do as you will' in line?

Lostgirl
14-11-2010, 08:23 AM
I believe its all about the intent of whatever you are doing. Do as you like as long as your intetions are well and good. Im very new to Wiccan and am kinda making my own interpretations of things as i go along however i believe as long as the intentions are pure and good then you can do as you want. If you go about your rituals with impure, bad intetions then that is where the Rede comes into play.

All about the intetions.

norseman
14-11-2010, 08:34 AM
Pre-Dawn. The kick in the tail is the Three-Fold Law i.e. the law of Consequences. Whatever you "will" for good or evil, there will be consequences for yourself.
All just a different way to say Christ's Golden Rule - "Do as you would be done by".

UniverseofLove
15-11-2010, 06:15 PM
I am interested in Wiccan and relate to it rather a lot. I have been reading up on it lately and (for the moment, anyway) and slightly closer to it that I am to Paganism because I am drawn to the magic.

My understanding of today's society is that it is too ego-driven. People focus on what they desire, but it tends to be materialistic with little or no regard to others.
If the Wiccan Rede was the guide for our society or played a part in the ethics of our culture then people may gain a better understanding and put the whole line, "An it harm none, do as ye will" into practice instead of just going by "do what you want".

Rules and guide lines need to be kept in their context, or else they risk losing their meaning.

As for science and spirituality: I believe neither can be without the other. Science is about how our world works, but is with our current knowledge. Spirituality is about trusting our true nature and seeing what cannot yet be proven.
Science is proving more and more of our beliefs. Placebos are explaining the power of the mind, for example.

Hang on to faith and love science for what it is. We will get there!

Blessed Be
Ara xx

Animus27
18-11-2010, 06:23 AM
The Wiccan Rede is very similar to a concept Aleister Crowley came up with for his religion Thelema, "Do what thou Wilt and that shall be the whole of the Law".

Many people would take this as "YAY! I can do whatever I want! Sweet."

But that is a horrendously exoteric interpretation. Crowley, when using the word 'Wilt' didn't mean that you should fulfill every whim without thought, and at any cost. In the religion of Thelema there's the goal of speaking with your Holy Guardian Angel, which is an idea many are more familiar with as the Higher Self. When you communicate and align yourself with your HGA your desires and aspirations are more focused on things that are better for everyone, or more in step with the divine. They aren't beastial, transient desires.

So once you have that knowledge, you can see that the Wiccan Rede is pretty much an imitation of the Thelemic concept, stripped of it's importance, and in need of some further clarification.

Mystery90
18-11-2010, 09:06 PM
I don't class myself as Wiccan but it interests me alot.
I believe that what you do comes back to you even if it's good or bad eventually in your life.
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will""What ye send forth comes back to thee
So ever mind the law of three
Follow this with mind and heart
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part"UniverseofLove (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/member.php?u=2909) I defiantly stand by you when you mention about society, we tend to think about ourselves than others. I live in the UK and with all the money cuts I think this is what drives us to be like this alot of the time. We are more driven to say 'I want that' instead of 'I would like that'. We desire too much. This is just my opinon.

pre-dawn
19-11-2010, 01:01 AM
From the replies I get the sense that it is all so thinking based, as if we would know, or could know a) our real motivations and b) the outcome of our actions, at all times.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions is a well-known saying that illustrates that good intentions alone may not be enough.

Animus27
19-11-2010, 06:15 AM
The road to hell is paved with good intentions is a well-known saying that illustrates that good intentions alone may not be enough.
Yes it is. Which is why good intentions need to be tempered with wisdom and knowledge.

stormdancer
19-11-2010, 10:18 PM
http://j.imagehost.org/0819/wiccadddjjd.gif (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fj.imagehost.org%2Fview %2F0819%2Fwiccadddjjd)

The Witches Creed

Hear now the words of the witches,
The secrets we hid in the night,
When dark was our destiny's pathway,
That now we bring forth into light.
Mysterious water and fire,
The earth and the wide-ranging air,
By hidden quintessence we know them,
And will and keep silent and dare.
The birth and rebirth of all nature,
The passing of winter and spring,
We share with the life universal,
Rejoice in the magical ring.
Four times in the year the Great Sabbat
Returns, and the witches are seen
At Lammas and Candlemas dancing,
On May Eve and old Hallowe'en.
When day-time and night-time are equal,
When sun is at greatest and least,
The four Lesser Sabbats are summoned,
And Witches gather in feast.
Thirteen silver moons in a year are,
Thirteen is the coven's array.
Thirteen times at Esbat make merry,
For each golden year and a day.
The power that was passed down the age,
Each time between woman and man,
Each century unto the other,
Ere time and the ages began.
When drawn is the magical circle,
By sword or athame of power,
Its compass between two worlds lies,
In land of the shades for that hour.
This world has no right then to know it.
And world of beyond will tell naught.
The oldest of Gods are invoked there;
The Great Work of magic is wrought.
For the two are mystical pillars,
That stand at the gate of the shrine,
And two are the powers of nature,
The forms and the forces divine.
The dark and the light in succession,
The opposites each unto each,
Shown forth as a God and a Goddess:
Of this our ancestors teach.
By night he's the wild winds rider,
The Horn'd One, the Lord of the Shades.
By day he's the King of the Woodland,
The dweller in green forest glades.
She is youthful or old as she pleases,
she sails the torn clouds in her barque,
the bright silver lady of midnight,
The crone who weaves spells in the dark.
The master and mistress of magic,
that dwells in the deeps of the mind,
Immortal and ever-renewing,
With power to free or to bind.
So drink the good wine to the Old Gods,
And Dance and make love in their praise,
till Elphame's fair land shall receive us
In peace at the end of our days.
And Do What You Will be the challenge,
so be it Love that harms none,
for this is the only commandment.

By Magic of old, be it done!

Blessings dear friends

Storm x