PDA

View Full Version : The elusive illusion.


Mr Interesting
24-01-2014, 06:05 PM
It struck me the other day, as hard as a feather dropped to define weightlessness, that the illusion isn't real life in the sense that it isn't concrete so much that when we achieve the state of no-mind and formlessness that corporeality as the only way is the illusion. So it isn't that matter isn't real so much as it needs the added reality of non-matter.

silent whisper
24-01-2014, 09:59 PM
As a matter of fact I *think* you got it. :)

Many paths lead to home.

When you merge matters its all ones own,in that merging.

Papa Bear
24-01-2014, 10:27 PM
It struck me the other day, as hard as a feather dropped to define weightlessness, that the illusion isn't real life in the sense that it isn't concrete so much that when we achieve the state of no-mind and formlessness that corporeality as the only way is the illusion. So it isn't that matter isn't real so much as it needs the added reality of non-matter.

This is a reflection of ethereal awareness in human awareness, where sameness makes the difference transparent.

And once again you trigger an old pondering in me. As I discovered what the `Higgs Boson particle` was, I looked further and found that it became a Higgs field of universal proportions. But as it would be a positive field, the maths demanded a perfect reflective opposite field, in equal measure, to confirm its reality.

And as the all-pervading nature of ethereal reflection of that manifest universe, came into my focus, I wondered should I phone someone? Lol.

wstein
24-01-2014, 10:30 PM
It struck me the other day, as hard as a feather dropped to define weightlessness, that the illusion isn't real life in the sense that it isn't concrete so much that when we achieve the state of no-mind and formlessness that corporeality as the only way is the illusion. So it isn't that matter isn't real so much as it needs the added reality of non-matter.
Yes, though there is a lot more illusion than just 'corporeality'.

Mr Interesting
24-01-2014, 11:02 PM
I suppose then that I'd be talking about a point of departure more than the countryside the train might be traveling (see that in the Queen's English we use 2 x l) through.

As far as being here and having a job to do, which may or may not be the case but it is sufficient to put it into terms close enough to resemble what may be of happenstance, it is that as I find myself closer to a graceful state I find I understand without thinking what the seers meant and see the difference those more solid still might believe to be the meaning isn't quite what I feel the seers were getting at so if a duty is to be made then it is to enliven the span of the difference.

In the same vein too I hope in that it's not an answer so much as it might be a more pertinent question.

Papa Bear
24-01-2014, 11:59 PM
When knowing meets a memory of understanding what was not yet known, an empathy with like-kind in awareness, may arrive. As the root of `pertinent` questions, are often found in the answers which produced them. So may I ask, can you expand on this, “so if a duty is to be made then it is to enliven the span of the difference.”

silent whisper
25-01-2014, 12:42 AM
I suppose then that I'd be talking about a point of departure more than the countryside the train might be traveling (see that in the Queen's English we use 2 x l) through.

In this view, it opens my view of the platform/foundation and the stepping into the ride/flow from that point....the view then in your sight seeing ability somehow expands in new light rather than being seen as the illusion itself....:)

As far as being here and having a job to do, which may or may not be the case but it is sufficient to put it into terms close enough to resemble what may be of happenstance, it is that as I find myself closer to a graceful state I find I understand without thinking what the seers meant and see the difference those more solid still might believe to be the meaning isn't quite what I feel the seers were getting at so if a duty is to be made then it is to enliven the span of the difference.

The call of duty often is reflected in whats calling you in both the view and feelings related to the view....in graceful state the dance becomes much lighter and simplified in ourselves....:)

In the same vein too I hope in that it's not an answer so much as it might be a more pertinent question.

:)................

Mr Interesting
25-01-2014, 06:19 AM
So if a duty is to be made then it is to enliven the span of the difference.

Just to discuss what the enlightened were really saying 'cause so much of it has become dogmatic or is used as excuses. "I don't have to save the world as it's all an illusion anyways"

The enlightened are in and with source and it can't be explained so whatever explanations are used must be subject to revitalisation otherwise they become dogma which does the opposite of what might have been the original intention.

Those closer to source can help those further away by re-aligning to the original intention.

A human Being
25-01-2014, 10:26 AM
It struck me the other day, as hard as a feather dropped to define weightlessness, that the illusion isn't real life in the sense that it isn't concrete so much that when we achieve the state of no-mind and formlessness that corporeality as the only way is the illusion. So it isn't that matter isn't real so much as it needs the added reality of non-matter.
Once again with these philosophical discussions on the nature of reality, I'm quite lost (which attests to my intellectual deficiencies more than anything else), but that bit did strike a chord with me because I've been wrestling with the question of what's real quite a lot recently.

I'd got to thinking that what I could physically see wasn't real, but I'm starting to think that's a too simplistic way of looking at the world. I like the way you put it, that resonates with me - as you say, it isn't that physical matter doesn't have any reality, the more important point is to recognise the formless Source that gives it reality. And practices like meditation are a good way of recognising it.

silent whisper
25-01-2014, 10:49 AM
If you see it all as relevant to the whole, the illusion as such is no longer an illusion but a mix of the whole as one. That view in you, is then reflected to reality with a greater awareness and a focus on what is most important in that view.

People can get stuck in the no mind place, and not integrate the emptiness with the fullness of being, that then creates a reflection of the illusion as everything being nothing, where as nothing is everything in the nature of it all in us and outside of us.

Gem
25-01-2014, 11:14 AM
To me, 'reality' is like an adjective, and ironically, that makes it a very subjective term, but 'illusion' is a similar descriptor, though more aptly subjective.

A human Being
25-01-2014, 12:06 PM
If you see it all as relevant to the whole, the illusion as such is no longer an illusion but a mix of the whole as one. That view in you, is then reflected to reality with a greater awareness and a focus on what is most important in that view.

People can get stuck in the no mind place, and not integrate the emptiness with the fullness of being, that then creates a reflection of the illusion as everything being nothing, where as nothing is everything in the nature of it all in us and outside of us.
Mm - would you say it's more accurate to say that the illusion is created by faulty perception, not by reality itself?

Although actually, isn't perception a product of reality? No wait, it's a product of consciousness, which is a product of Source?

You see, I'm easily flummoxed by this sort of discussion!

Mr Interesting
25-01-2014, 05:54 PM
I'm not versed enough in psychological concepts but I'm of the opinion that we need to reach a point of suspension; that we have to suspend the ideas without visible support.

I saw a log splitter the other day on a youtube video and it absolutely did it for me in a way I couldn't predict when I saw it but when I went into meditation and suddenly found a way to increase my healing ability and used it then later realised it was linked back to this youtube video of a log splitter.

http://www.wimp.com/choppingfirewood/

So I suppose we get to a point where we try to fit everything into an intellectual construct but no matter how hard we try the ideas will just not conform to the box so eventually, in frustration or whatever, we just give up and then, hopefully, along comes something or other that provides an illustration and we don't usually even know the significance but, in the case with the logsplitter for me, it puts together concepts in way that finds us able to accept things in the way they actually need to be accepted.

Mr Interesting
25-01-2014, 08:08 PM
I think this has completely turned around for me, well not completely, but some interesting stuff is starting to happen.

"People can get stuck in the no mind place, and not integrate the emptiness with the fullness of being, that then creates a reflection of the illusion as everything being nothing, where as nothing is everything in the nature of it all in us and outside of us." ( from Silent Whisperer)

and from P. Bear came a requirement to explain... "so if a duty is to be made then it is to enliven the span of the difference.”

So I'm finding myself within my own question somehow. Or that my original statement was actually a question to myself I am now finding the ghosts of answers. Excuse me but the obtuseness seems to be a part of the process.

I have given the no-mind thing a whole bunch of time and effort, as meditative practise using up hours each day, and then things started happening in the world that made sense but didn't connect until now... somehow.

I lost my wallet which wasn't a biggy except for my drivers license which is ID. My bank account had been closed and my library card had big fines so I couldn't use that anymore... so my withdrawing from the world was following me physically. I didn't mind all that but in renewing my license I had to prove my identity and this created a kind of bureaucratic maze I was required to get through and it was luck in a sense that made it all happen.

Then I was out for a walk and the Police stopped me to inquire whether everything was alright and asking why they said I looked lost and bewildered which made me laugh but also had me questioning my distance from regular life.

Then last night the power went to just our house and the guy came round and fixed the pole fuse... so it wasn't in the house as such but what was happening in the house bypassed the regular fuses and went to the outside. That was weird and again got me wondering.

Meanwhile I kinda got that I've got to come back into the world and my brother has recently created some work for me, which I was hesitant about, but while out driving yesterday to go for a swim, a vision of an artwork came to me and it seemed to be a direct result of the work I could do for my brother.

So all of this is really weird but it's also really together with everything else, as if I've spent all this time away and the purpose has been to not necessarily change what I do but to re-orientate myself from the bottom up and I can kinda see that now. That my resistance to doing, by non-doing, has brought me back to realising that doing doesn't have to be what it was.

My own illusion has been ellusive... still obtuse I know but I think I'm in breakthrough territory. Now I'm going to go build a fire... I gotta burn up some stuff and also make a pathway to get all the weeds down the back!

Papa Bear
25-01-2014, 09:01 PM
Hi Mr Interesting,
Just to discuss what the enlightened were really saying 'cause so much of it has become dogmatic or is used as excuses. "I don't have to save the world as it's all an illusion anyways"

The enlightened are in and with source and it can't be explained so whatever explanations are used must be subject to revitalisation otherwise they become dogma which does the opposite of what might have been the original intention.

Those closer to source can help those further away by re-aligning to the original intention.
If the source of a human being, is the Spirit they are, in unperceived formlessness. Then who can be closer to it, more than another?
If the source of universal material nature, is a Spiritual nature which expressed it into being. Then what human being is closer to understanding that, more than another?

If there was/is two elements of one being, Spirit and human. And if they co-exist in two varying but interconnected natures. What would their original intention be?

Maybe to remember, `what reason Spirit and its nature had, to express the universe and its life into reality`? To evolve, live, experience, harmonize, and love, in a nature of limiting but beautiful formation. To evolve in human understanding and awareness, by experiencing the nature of its life. So that harmonizing with that nature may be beautified by shared love. Always remembering the source that expressed it all into being, remains at its core, within its nature and being.

Well that’s what I remember. The sameness all difference evolved from, is permanent, while the evolving differences are impermanent. To be content and secure in the first, so as to enjoy the ecstasy and splendour of all difference, as it evolves.

Two beings, one an expression of the other. Two natures, one an expression of the other. Perceived in difference, while sharing sameness at source. What’s to never forget?

silent whisper
25-01-2014, 09:27 PM
Mm - would you say it's more accurate to say that the illusion is created by faulty perception, not by reality itself?

It is not faulty just where your perception is coming from at that space of where one is at on their path and journey. If you suspend all perception and see from that space of everything and nothing in you, then it just is. The labels or conditioned ideas are human constructs. To be completely empty and connected to the flow of it all as one, you see and feel that everything is whole and complete as it is..regardless of how another perceives through separation. To be open minded, open to feel, your open to flow fully as your true self, and to understand beyond mind the connections that are in that flow as one is the space where reality shifts but deepens. When fully immersed into a place beyond the human constructs the greater view and flow is boundless...

Although actually, isn't perception a product of reality? No wait, it's a product of consciousness, which is a product of Source?

Perception is required until you no longer need to perceive you just know. To "just know" you have to experience "the feeling" of knowing to open deeper to that knowing

You see, I'm easily flummoxed by this sort of discussion!

Yes it can send you round and round in circles if you ride the circle of your own creation, yet in flow its an infinitely larger circle and when you stop at a point on that circle its not just about your own mind entangling itself..:wink: this feels less restrictive and more open and free and you don't get dizzy on that one, you just flow with it
all...:wink:

wstein
26-01-2014, 01:08 AM
What is illusion after all?

Is it something that appears to you different than it really is? By that definition everything you perceive or experience is illusion.

Perhaps illusion is anything that is not universally 'true'? By this definition all your stories, misconceptions, imaginings are the illusion.

Both of these definitions leave room for an actual (non-illusion) reality even if all the beings in it are only aware of their illusions about it.

Mr Interesting
26-01-2014, 08:54 PM
We humans are incredibly clever aren't we?

I finally went to wikipedia for the actual meaning of illusion.

Now I'm not going to think about it though it feels somewhat desirable to do so. To wrap my cognitive skills about this definition I've found and span the difference between what I might have thought it meant and what the understood meaning of it is.

Part of me remembers the intimacy and intricacy of speaking with fingers on steel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgUDJDbSwg0)

I was always rather surprised when they let me play solos...