Is Atheism just an excuse to be selfish?

[Lightspirit]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.
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After 181 replies we sorted it out peacefully

This question originally was nothing more than a passing thought,it was more a passing question one day I didn't expect it to go on for ages like it did. Fresh in my mind from talking to an atheist taxi driver that day He didn't impress me with his concern for others and was not as much as some other people, he seemed a bit dismissive of his responsibility to other people. I wondered if there was a connection to his beliefs and his attitude. Then I got the idea to look up charities to see if there was any. Thats why that question was worded like that. So I asked the atheists and they showed me places where they do do charity and that they have good hearts many of them. I know lots of atheists that are nice people anyway that live near me. they dont mind my beliefs either.

Dont stress over this thread it's all been said before in it. I finally put this in so no one else worries about it.

[debbie.b]

i do not believe in the almighty god that created us. i do believe we are our own gods in a sense. it is not an excuse for me to be selfish as i work with vulnerable people & do everything i can to make their lives better. just because i have different beliefs about our creation doesn't make me or anyone else with similar beliefs, bad or wrong people. smilimg at someone as you pass them in the street is helping, saying please & thank you or holding a door open for someone is helping. you don't need a charity for good human spirit. :-)

[pre-dawn]

Search for 'humanist charity'
337,000 results.

[pre-dawn]

I don't think that one could classify the International Red Cross, MSF (Medicine Sans Frontier), or United Nation's relief efforts as Christian charities.

[Silver]

Does that mean that the term humanist means they do not believe in a god or higher power? Or those other ones mentioned (red cross, etc.)? Wouldn't they be considered more agnostic or something? don't know that a charity can have a belief system, but know what you mean sort of.

[Lightspirit]

I know a lot o religious organizations set it as a combined aim to raise money and help people because it is part of the religions philosophy is about giving of money and personal service for the good of others. whatever the religion. I know there are many charitable organizations that don't belong to any religion, but do you think just because they don't they could claim to be atheist? Sorry for the controversial thread it was just a passing thought.

[Silver]

I know a lot o religious organizations set it as a combined aim to raise money and help people because it is part of the religions philosophy is about giving of money and personal service for the good of others. whatever the religion. I know there are many charitable organizations that don't belong to any religion, but do you think just because they don't they could claim to be atheist? Sorry for the controversial thread it was just a passing thought.

I think that many that don't make any religious claims are just humanitarian, no belief or belief system even enters the picture about them. Well, if they COULD claim to be atheist, obviously none have stepped forward to do so. It's not a controversy, at least not around here. That's what I like about this forum, is there are appropriate places for controversial threads and people by and large, are allowed to speak their minds about any subject they want, as long as it's kept respectful in the process.

[debbie.b]

but what you are asking is, are athiests selfish. you don't have to be a religious person to be a good person. if you are a good, kind, unselfish human being it is in your nature to be that way not because you believe in god.

[Lightspirit]

but what you are asking is, are athiests selfish. you don't have to be a religious person to be a good person. if you are a good, kind, unselfish human being it is in your nature to be that way not because you believe in god. No not at al I am just questioning the philosophy of it and if it encompases something in it ie something written as a giude or something to motivate you towards serving other people. I know buddists Christianity and others have this sort of thing written as a guide.


If any of you guys are atheists I'm not picking on you so please don't be offended, especially if you do charity work yourself they are just questions about this belief that's all.

[novaspirit]

But what if it is not that Atheist are not charitable, they just don't feel the need to say they are in belief that they are. Where as Religious charities may have a need to trumpet their good doings?

[Volt]

I just help people because I want to. It's nice knowing that you helped someone out, improved their day, even if it's just a little bit :)

[psychoslice]

I think that the ones who don't go to church or believe in spirituality are probably the ones who do the most, but also are the quiet achievers, as Novaspirit pointed out..

[pre-dawn]

Declaring a charity as atheist would achieve nothing except to exclude some people. That would be contrary to their humanistic aims. An atheist charity, would be incongruent, thus you won't find any.

Christian, Islamic, or Buddhist charity, etc. is just an organziational label about who set it up. It should not indicate who can contribute, who can work for it, and whom it serves.
Humanistic is probably the broadest label one can use.

[Lightspirit]

I'm norti starting this thread hope everyone don't argue over it I felt bad later thinking its not a very peace promoting topic soreeeee

[arive nan]

Well, we're getting along so far :).

[PrincessKLS]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.

No, there's plenty of religious people, including Christians who try to justify selfish behavior. Probably moreso than the average Aethist. Aethist are basically glorified scientist/humanist. They see things from a more scientific sense to human life. Rather that's biological, psychological, etc.

[debbie.b]

all this is still beside the point. being athiest or being religious still doesn't matter as to whether you are a charitable or kind, helpful person.
i'll give you an example of how unkind a christian person can be. my ex boss is a church pastor, i had to take 2 months off work to care for my mum who was dying of cancer. i was entitled to pay while i was off the 2 months due to government law but he chose to pay me nothing. not a penny. i asked & asked but still he gave me nothing. when my mum died i had no money at all, not even to buy her flowers for the funeral so i sent a txt message to my boss begging him for what i was owed & explained why i needed it. still, nothing...........is that very christian???!!!! so it doesnt matter what your beliefs, there are good & not so good people in all walks of life.

[Chrysaetos]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god Atheists don't believe in deities.

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count. You probably live in a Christian country, which is why you see it that way. I know many people who care about the lives of poor people, who care about animal rights, and rights for women and homosexuals. They aren't all Christians. I live in Europe, and Europeans give a lot of charity. However, there's also a rise of scepticism towards charity, because it doesn't always come in the right hands.This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow? Are you saying you need to believe in a deity to help others?

[Lightspirit]

Atheists don't believe in deities.

You probably live in a Christian country, which is why you see it that way. I know many people who care about the lives of poor people, who care about animal rights, and rights for women and homosexuals. They aren't all Christians. I live in Europe, and Europeans give a lot of charity. However, there's also a rise of scepticism towards charity, because it doesn't always come in the right hands. Are you saying you need to believe in a deity to help others?
not really, I was wondering why atheists don't have nominated charities that can be found in Google search.

things like this


http://www.compassion.com.au/

http://buddhism.about.com/b/2009/08/13/buddhist-charities-aid-typhoon-victims.htm

http://www.muslimhands.org/en/gb/

http://www.washingtonbanglaradio.com/content/91125310-hindu-charities-america-donates-school-supplies-disadvantaged-children

http://www.taoist.org.au/content/standard.asp?name=20070719_QLDNews_TwbaDonationToY oungWomensPlace_so30

I found those effortlessly they were ones among lots in each category

It is a fair question, at face value it seems everybody else seems to have some outreach happening, how come atheism as an organization or belief doesn't do it with their name to some organized charities.

Ie Atheist outreach to flood victims in Pakistan etc

OR Atheists as a group continually support a needy thing on an ongoing basis?

Or Atheists raise a million dollars for homeless children etc

You know what I mean.

[Chrysaetos]

You know what I mean. Atheism isn't a belief or a organisation.

If atheists want to help poor people, animals, homosexuals, children, minority groups, etc,
they don't feel the need to tell everyone they are helping ''in the name of atheism''. They just help.

[Lightspirit]

Atheism isn't a belief or a organisation.

If atheists want to help poor people, animals, homosexuals, children, minority groups, etc,
they don't feel the need to tell everyone they are helping ''in the name of atheism''. They just help. Ahh I thought it might have been organized and had meetings

[pre-dawn]

Ahh I thought it might have been organized and had meetings
What do you think they would discuss?

[supernova]

Theism and atheism has little to do with charity and I think whether one is a theist or atheist and if he is charitable he is great and spiritual.
Even if one is really charitable and takes care of others I think he is really great.

I am often torn between theism and atheism. I am often unsure whether God exists or not but I always am sure that charity is a great deed and that really enlightens.

[Miss Hepburn]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god
It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.
This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.
"Atheist Charities" - that made me laugh.

Atheists are great people and very generous - they are just not organized
to create a Charity - that I know of---What a great idea though.

Any atheists here interested in starting a "National Atheist Fund for the Fill in the blank" ? Should be easy with the Internet.
You'd be featured on Good Morning Am...especially if you're 14...more news worthy.

[Miss Hepburn]

...i'll give you an example of how unkind a christian person can be. my ex boss is a church pastor, i had to take 2 months off work to care for my mum who was dying of cancer. i was entitled to pay while i was off the 2 months due to government law but he chose to pay me nothing. not a penny. i asked & asked but still he gave me nothing. when my mum died i had no money at all, not even to buy her flowers for the funeral so i sent a txt message to my boss begging him for what i was owed & explained why i needed it. still, nothing...........is that very christian???!!!!...
I was told and followed this to a tee in 1989 -never go to anyone with a fish in their ad.
A friend did and was very sorry - I said I told you so.
And I'm a Christian.

I could tell you much worse stories, debbie!!
But, you can rest assured he will burn in hell, that's always a comfort.
(Just kidding to see if you were awake.)
:wink:

[Miss Hepburn]

What do you think they would discuss?
How to overturn Government authorized things like getting, "In God we Trust" off our money, how to get prayer out of
the schools and at the beginning of events, bla bla -you get the picture.

Sorry, you were asking someone else - I just figure this is a forum and we can jump in, right?
I cheat on tests, also.
:wink:

[norseman]

I reckon many christians give to charity to earn brownie points in the afterlife and for a feeling of smug self-satisfaction.

[shepherd]

Well one thing about athiests is that they have not caused and are not causing the religious wars this planet has suffered over the past 2 thousand years etc. Billions suffer at the hands of religious influence and will still do so until the irrational parts of religion are exposed and dealt with. Athiests are given everything they need to show religions darkest sides and what is still does to people today. Its hard to ignore what they say especially when you see children being hurt through religious irrationality.

So are athiests selfish? Nope, they are in my opinion Gods answer to balance out mans made up versions of who they think God is, wants and needs.

[arive nan]

There are some organised atheist groups in America. But their members really don't accurately represent atheists as a whole, even if they might think they do. To be an atheist, the only qualification is simply not believing in god or gods. Most people who simply don't believe in god or gods don't join a club about it.

[shepherd]

There are some organised atheist groups in America. But their members really don't accurately represent atheists as a whole, even if they might think they do. To be an atheist, the only qualification is simply not believing in god or gods. Most people who simply don't believe in god or gods don't join a club about it.

No they dont but there is a growing movement to join as they are fed up of seeing the harmful side to religion.

[debbie.b]

I was told and followed this to a tee in 1989 -never go to anyone with a fish in their ad.
A friend did and was very sorry - I said I told you so.
And I'm a Christian.

I could tell you much worse stories, debbie!!
But, you can rest assured he will burn in hell, that's always a comfort.
(Just kidding to see if you were awake.)
:wink:

oh i was paying attention!!! i do have alot of good friends who attend church & i have taken one of my clients (i work in mental health) to church on several occassions & the happiness she shows whilst in the church service is just so amazing. i respect the pleasure religion gives people but i just choose not to believe that 1 single being can be responsible for our creation. i have read alot of the bible to try & understand but what i get from it is just moralistic stories. one tells you not to judge so why do we find a great number of religions do just that. isn't this post questioning atheists moral standards? thus putting that idea in peoples heads that all atheists are going to be selfish!
miss hepburn i like reading your replies as i can see & feel you are a good person. i get judged all the time for my appearance so i would rather not get judged by my ideals also..... ;-)

[orli_the_owl]

I
It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

.

There are hundreds if not thousands of charities, and no doubt some of them are founded by athiests, and a great deal more have no founding link to religion at all, mearly a person wanting to help somone else.

Maybe you found so many christian charities in your search because the people who set them up felt the need to shout about what they were doing, as a way of waving their hands and jumping up and down going ''look, look god/allah/higher being of some kind (edit as appropriate) im being a good person'' and is that not in actual fact being selfish? These people are not acting out of the goodness of their hearts but as a human but using the deed as a way to gain a reward. An athiest on the other hand expects no higher reward than the sense of self satesfaction which is surely more alturistic?

I have a lot more to say on the matter should you wish to discuss further but I think you are harsh in saying athiests do nothing to help people. In fact i beleive you will find many scientists, medics and health professionals are athiests, who work tirelessly to help both individuals and humanity as a whole, and i think you will also find they do it because they want to, not because they feel they have to in order to gain their place in whichever afterplace you wish to name.

[Miss Hepburn]

miss hepburn i like reading your replies as i can see & feel you are a good person. i get judged all the time for my appearance so i would rather not get judged by my ideals also..... ;-)
That cracked me up - tired of being judged, eh?
When you get judged for your appearance -just say
what my grandma always said.
"Blank, 'em."

:cool:


Edited by SF Staff

[Miss Hepburn]

... but I think you are harsh in saying athiests do nothing to help people.

Whoa, right there, LightworkerAU has never been harsh
on this forum -and has never been harsh on this thread in any way what-so-ever.

She has bent over backwards not to offend people.

[arive nan]

All the compassionate atheists out there kind of put a hole in that argument.

[debbie.b]

I think that atheists are very bitter people, and it's very likely they are simply selfish or downright depraved. Atheism doesn't provide a moral code to live by, but it does encourage "Might makes right" and "survival of the fittest"... sounds selfish to me. I would take it a little further and say that the most bitter atheists might even have defective, demonic DNA. :o

oh my oh my......how rude & ignorant but hey, coming from a non believer......i forgive you & send you lots of love. :-)

[Chrysaetos]

I think that atheists are very bitter people, and it's very likely they are simply selfish or downright depraved. Atheism doesn't provide a moral code to live by, but it does encourage "Might makes right" and "survival of the fittest"... sounds selfish to me. I would take it a little further and say that the most bitter atheists might even have defective, demonic DNA. :o Do you believe in Quetzalcoatl and Horus? If not, you're an atheist as well.

I thought you wanted to do something with science in the future?
If so, you have a long way to go, if you're going to talk about demonic DNA and misusing survival of the fittest.

Cheers.

[debbie.b]

oh & i'd like to know what the heck demonic DNA is!!! if it exists surely god must have put it there........because didn't he create us?! apologies for the sarcasm :-s

[Shim]

Deleted....

[elliestar11]

Do you believe in Quetzalcoatl and Horus? If not, you're an atheist as well.

I thought you wanted to do something with science in the future?
If so, you have a long way to go, if you're going to talk about demonic DNA and misusing survival of the fittest.

Cheers.

But the difference is that Horus and Quetzalcoatl are false gods and idols. Idols are not of the Holy Spirit, and they lead you into sin. And atheists deny ALL gods.

I want to be a Christian New Age scientist because I think the scientific paradigm today is all wrong. They're not considering all the personal experiences that we have with the metaphysical. Instead THEY ALONE get to decide what is "true" and what is "false" while paying no attention to the FACTS!:icon_frown:

[Lostgirl]

I always believed that it was a belief that there wasnt a god so how can you believe that you are your own god if you dont believe in one?! I dont think its selfish its just a different way of looking at life.

[elliestar11]

oh & i'd like to know what the heck demonic DNA is!!! if it exists surely god must have put it there........because didn't he create us?! apologies for the sarcasm :-s

No, I mean that in this world there are demons that have sex with humans. You know incubi and succubi? They sleep with men and women to infect them with their DNA, but the victims are to ashamed to tell anyone that they were attacked by demons!

[Chrysaetos]

But the difference is that Horus and Quetzalcoatl are false gods and idols. Idols are not of the Holy Spirit, and they lead you into sin. And atheists deny ALL gods. And? Your deity is just a desert god from a small Middle Eastern country.
I want to be a Christian New Age scientist because I think the scientific paradigm today is all wrong. They're not considering all the personal experiences that we have with the metaphysical. Instead THEY ALONE get to decide what is "true" and what is "false" while paying no attention to the FACTS!:icon_frown: Not at all. If I told you purple bears exists, do you believe me, or do you want to investigate it? Religious people think science is wrong, because they are stuck in their own belief systems.

Personal subjective experience isn't always trustworthy, and besides it can't be proven. Thus, it's pointless in a discussion to even say it's ''truth''.

This video is specifically good for you to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.youtube.com%2525252525252Fwatch%252525252525 3Fv%2525252525253DsNDZb0KtJDk)

The problems with anecdotes: http://www.youtube.com/user/QualiaSoup#p/u/15/NPqerbz8KDc (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.youtube.com%2525252525252Fuser%2525252525252 FQualiaSoup%25252525252523p%2525252525252Fu%252525 2525252F15%2525252525252FNPqerbz8KDc)

[debbie.b]

No, I mean that in this world there are demons that have sex with humans. You know incubi and succubi? They sleep with men and women to infect them with their DNA, but the victims are to ashamed to tell anyone that they were attacked by demons!

oh please!!!! there is no such thing as demons/devils etc. there are good people, not so good people/mislead people/people who believe in this/people who believe in that.
i may not believe in god as a man that created us all but i do have some beliefs. oh gosh, i am so stuck for words........

[Shim]

Deleted....

[Chrysaetos]

Do you think the truth of God that has existed for two thousand years will be revealed in a youtube video? Well, you respond to me but you couldn't have watched it that fast.. (4 minutes)

Let me tell you something that was said in the video:

''When you want to move people away from their default lack of belief to your belief, it's you, not they, who has to provide justification. The burden of proof is on you, not those who are simply sceptical of your claim. ''

[Miss Hepburn]

I think that atheists are very bitter people, and it's very likely they are simply selfish or downright depraved. Atheism doesn't provide a moral code to live by, but it does encourage "Might makes right" and "survival of the fittest"... sounds selfish to me. I would take it a little further and say that the most bitter atheists might even have defective, demonic DNA. :o
Gulp...Would you like to tell us why you think that?

I'm not going to show that to any of my wonderful atheist friends --well, one isn't all so wonderful - but he's not bitter - just angry.
None are depraved either.
Bitter people in general make themselves and others pretty
unhappy -but demonic DNA? ---why blame an innocent DNA pattern -it didn't do anything?
You could blame their liking their own bitterness and not wanting to forgive because then they'd have to give up all that self-righteousness and victimhood and actually be happy!

I'm surprsed at 15 you have such stong feelings - you must know a bitter atheist?
Thanks

[Miss Hepburn]

i may not believe in god as a man that created us all but i do have some beliefs.

debbie, you've said this before...Anybody here think that a "man created us"?


How could we, we are the Star Trek Generation - "a man in the sky"? Come on.
There are blobs of mist we were raised with; we are way more imaginative.

[shepherd]

I think that atheists are very bitter people, and it's very likely they are simply selfish or downright depraved. Atheism doesn't provide a moral code to live by, but it does encourage "Might makes right" and "survival of the fittest"... sounds selfish to me. I would take it a little further and say that the most bitter atheists might even have defective, demonic DNA. :o

oh the irony.

Athiests are selfish and depraved how exactly?

They are not the ones peddling demonic stories of fear
They are not the ones exorcising children who are apparently witches or demons
They are not the ones waging war with other nations
They are not the ones demeaning women or gay people
They are not the ones adding to the spread of HIV across Africa and the population explosions and poverty in parts of Asia

Athiests are pointing out the damage being caused to Earth due to mans made up versions of their God. Depraved and selfish for doing that? I admire them for a lot of what they say. I am not an athiest but the religious / spiritual world is causing so much damage and I am glad there are movements out there pointing it out and asking questions.




(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=67430)

[debbie.b]

we are all HUMAN BEINGS.....love, love, love....not label, label, label

[debbie.b]

debbie, you've said this before...Anybody here think that a "man created us"?


How could we, we are the Star Trek Generation - "a man in the sky"? Come on.
There are blobs of mist we were raised with; we are way more imaginative.

thank you miss hepburn i'm glad you have more imagination than that. i don't mean the phrase literally. but when i have asked people who is god, they refer to god as he & look up to the sky at 'heaven'......man in the sky!

[Lightspirit]

What do you think they would discuss?

LOL i dont know it would be funny. They could run workshops for those who slip up and accidentally believe in god that week. A weekly sermon how nothing exists. JK

"Todays sermon will be on chapter 1 verse 7 of the God Delusion"

[psychoslice]

the God Delusion, good book you should read it.

[inspirit]

I definitely think that atheists are a bit selfish. To me there is a big difference between agnostic and atheist though since an atheist doesn't believe in God whereas an agnostic person just claims to not know. Of course a lot of supposedly religious people are selfish too but they probably don't believe in a loving God.

[Shim]

Deleted....

[Lynn]

Hello

Here are some thoughts I have.....too they are thoughts . I am all for if the shoe fits wear it. Thus if one feels Agnotic is for them so be their path.


What does it mean to be Agnostic ?

Is this a true religion ? I would have to say honestly since it is a path I started down at the age of 13 when I first started to rebel from the family Anglican Church that it is . it’s a faith based on the existence and or knowledge of any God. The term “Agnostic” means no knowledge.


What I recall from me path there that went on for many year’s is that I had is that there was NO such thing as God and for that God did not have knowledge based in being known at all. Simply did not exist at all in any form or teachings.

I have over the year’s met one’s that feel God is known but they do not walk that path of God. That would be me. I though so do not go to be called Agnostic now I do not feel that the tern “NO Knowledge” would fit to me. I do not walk with God but I do not say he not be real I can prove or disprove in his existence is all.
We could say that anytime one that is of God falls from their faith in times of crisis ext that they have become Agnostic and that I do not feel would be the case one has simply lost one’s footing on the path of life for a time is all.


I quote here from The Profit by Kahlil Gibran


“ And an old Priest said, ‘Speak to us of Religion.’


And he said :

Have I spoken this day of aught else ? Is not religion all des and all reflection, and that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?
Who can separate his faith from his actions, or belief from his occupations?
Who can spread his hours before him, saying ‘ This for God and this for myself; this for my soul, and this other for my body?’

All your hours are wings that eat through space from self to self. He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked. The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin. And he who defines his conductor by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.

The feast of song comes not through the bars and wires. And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Whenever you enter into it take with you your all. Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute, the things you have fashioned in necessity of for delight. For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.

And take with you all men:

For in adoration you can not fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair. And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles. Rather than look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children. And look into space, you shall see Him walking in the cloud , outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain. You shall see him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving his hands in trees.”



Lynn
　
Now even if on does not hold God in one’s heart one can take from the words here the feeling of peace in knowing we can all stumble at times on that path of life and loose in us our faiths and beliefs for a time but I so feel we are all connected to each other as Man and to the Universe and beyond by the LIGHT that is around each and everyone of us. To some we are all God’s children to me we are all children of the LIGHT.
We are not Religious or Agnostic maybe we just are US.
　
Lynn

[Lightspirit]

you guys are great!, It is so encouraging seeing people politely chatting over a controversial topic, without heated discusion. :) Thank you! I so needed that not to happen or I would have felt bad :)

[Chrysaetos]

Ever wonder if the concept of God is merely invented by humankind to make us all feel all warm and fuzzy, then why would people fabricate God as being Holy? Because holiness too, is just a word, and an evolved idea.
I definitely think that atheists are a bit selfish.
Of course a lot of supposedly religious people are selfish too but they probably don't believe in a loving God. Note the difference. In your opinion atheists are selfish, and only 'fake' (supposedly) religious people are selfish.
You make excuses for religion, but are eager to generalize atheists. That's what we call coloured glasses.

Cheers.

[Greenslade]

Athiests are the bad guys and should burn in Hell, right? Hell was built especially for them, yeah? Well, that's where I'm going because I have no problems in standing up and saying I'm an Athiest. I've been told I'll burn in Hell before now and considered to have been the spawn of the Devil. And taking a little from another thread, does that mean I can't be Spiritual? All Spiritualists believe in God, right? Otherwise they can't be Spiritual.

God made man, man made religion and man made religion into what it is today. If you want to do the Religion vs Spirituality debate Spirituality is going the same way as religion, slowly but surely. It's not religion nor Spirituality that is the problem but what people make of it and how they use it.

I'm an Athiest and I'm heading up a campaign, the details are in the link in my signature. I'll leave you to work out the contradictions between that and beliefs in Athiests being selfish and bad people. My values are more Christian than some people's I know that go to church every Sunday.

[Shim]

Deleted....

[Greenslade]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.

I reckon you're basing your thinking on the wrong thing altogether here. As has already been pointed out on many posts in this thread, perhaps Atheists don't need to display their religious beliefs - or lack thereof. Why do Christian charities declare themselves as such? If it it to gather support or promote themselves in some way to a specific target audience or to attract funding then that is accepted methodology. If they are doing that to take the moral high ground or wave the 'I'm a Christian and I'm better than you' flag then I would question their Christian Spirit. Again as has been pointed out time and again, there are some very charitable Atheists out there.

Don't confuse being Atheist with being a bad person - which seems to be hinted at in the question. There's good and bad in everyone - no matter what race, religion, faith or creed. Does belief in God somehow make you a better Christian that cannot do any wrong? Can Atheists not live their Lives according to Christian ethos? I know Atheists who are better Christians than some church-goers, and church-goers who leave their Christianity behind in the pews, only to pick it up again when it suits them.

[inspirit]

Atheism is totally bogus. Everyone makes mistakes and I don't judge anyone, but I believe that atheism, the belief system, is extremely evil and harmful and tied to so many ugly things in the world so that you would be wise not to associate with it. If you don't know that God exists, then declare yourself agnostic. Having questions about God is not evil. However spreading lies about God, saying that he is not real and that having faith does nothing, that is. Don't call yourself atheist unless you want that bad karma that comes with that. I'm not saying you're going to hell for it because God does not punish. I'm just saying that there is such a thing as cause and effect, action and reaction. What you do has consequences.

[Chrysaetos]

Everyone makes mistakes and I don't judge anyone, but I believe that atheism, the belief system, is extremely evil and harmful and tied to so many ugly things in the world so that you would be wise not to associate with it. Since atheism is not about beliefs and ideologies, it's really strange to make those claims. The one thing all atheists have in common is that they don't believe in the existence of deities. Nobody has killed in the name of atheism, but many have done so in the name of a god. It takes religion to make a good man do evil things.
If you don't know that God exists, then declare yourself agnostic. Having questions about God is not evil. However spreading lies about God, saying that he is not real and that having faith does nothing, that is. As I have mentioned elsewhere:
When you want to move people away from their default lack of belief to your belief, it's you, not they who has to provide justification.
The burden of proof is on you, not those who are simply sceptical of your claim.
Don't call yourself atheist unless you want that bad karma that comes with that. I'm not saying you're going to hell for it because God does not punish. I'm just saying that there is such a thing as cause and effect, action and reaction. What you do has consequences. Argumentum ad consequentiam.

It won't wash.

Cheers.

[Greenslade]

Atheism is totally bogus. Everyone makes mistakes and I don't judge anyone, but I believe that atheism, the belief system, is extremely evil and harmful and tied to so many ugly things in the world so that you would be wise not to associate with it.

Oops, judgement. And might I suggest you actually do some research on what Atheism really is? Not all Atheists are murderers and warmongers, are we?

If you don't know that God exists, then declare yourself agnostic. Having questions about God is not evil. However spreading lies about God, saying that he is not real and that having faith does nothing, that is.

Oops, more judgement. And until some scientist puts a meter on God his existence or not is still up for debate.

Don't call yourself atheist unless you want that bad karma that comes with that. I'm not saying you're going to hell for it because God does not punish. I'm just saying that there is such a thing as cause and effect, action and reaction. What you do has consequences.

How much bad karma has gone around and around because of people killing in the name of God? And God does punish, or is the Bible wrong? Two thousand years later and we still have killing about whose religion is right and wrong. What you do has consequences indeed. Is an atheist so bad because he/she is an atheist, or is he/she considered good because they Lived their Lives with all of the ethos that God-fearing people are supposed to?

[inspirit]

It's one thing to judge people and another thing to judge a doctrine such as atheism. Yes I'll gladly tell you that atheism is wrong which is indeed a judgment. Atheists on the other hand should not be judged, after all, Jesus has told us not to judge others.

As I've said, there's nothing wrong with asking questions about God. I suspect that many atheists are actually agnostic because they don't know that God exists but don't claim to know that he doesn't exist either. But you shouldn't stick up for true atheism, the doctrine that God doesn't exist based on a lack of proof.

How can you say that God does punish when you also say that he does not exist? Take it from me that God does not punish. He is a loving and forgiving God. But to be forgiven you must consent to forgiveness. Eternal life is only available to those who truly have the desire for it and who offer sincere repentance for evil. It has nothing to do with ethics at all.

Hopefully it's obvious that God does not approve of killing in his name. People who do that are more likely to not believe in God than to believe in him.

[arive nan]

Throughout history people have killed in the name of God. Because they believe that it's what God wanted them to do.

[Shim]

Throughout history people have killed in the name of God. Because they believe that it's what God wanted them to do.

And what about those people who followed Hitler, Stalin, and ......

What's your point arive nan?

[arive nan]

It was in response to Inspirit.

Hopefully it's obvious that God does not approve of killing in his name. People who do that are more likely to not believe in God than to believe in him.

History kind of proves that wrong.

[Lightspirit]

We are representatives of what we believe, what we believe represents itself in us.
More flies have been caught with honey than vinegar.
God is love! :)

That rabbit will never come to you unless you treat it gently!

[Chrysaetos]

But you shouldn't stick up for true atheism, the doctrine that God doesn't exist based on a lack of proof. The burden of proof is on you, not those who are simply sceptical of your claim.Hopefully it's obvious that God does not approve of killing in his name. People who do that are more likely to not believe in God than to believe in him.They do believe in god. Just because they don't subscribe to your views doesn't mean they are non-religious.

[Greenslade]

We are representatives of what we believe, what we believe represents itself in us.
We all need to remember that. It works for God-fearing people too, right?

More flies have been caught with honey than vinegar.
God is love! :)
That rabbit will never come to you unless you treat it gently!
Us Athiests aren't too good with honey and gentleness, eh?

[psychoslice]

If there is such thing as heaven I hope its full of Atheist lol.

[Greenslade]

Amen to that, psychoslice. I'll meet you there with a beer :-)

[psychoslice]

Amen to that, psychoslice. I'll meet you there with a beer :-)
Oh yea, a carton of beer more likely, we'll drink to all those holy rollers left behind lol.:smile: :D

[Greenslade]

Oh yea, a carton of beer more likely, we'll drink to all those holy rollers left behind lol.:smile: :D

Sooo easy to slip into unkind mode here :-)

[Kapitan_Prien]

Psychoslice: If there is such thing as heaven I hope its full of Atheist lol.

I love that Psych. :D

Reminded me of the saying, "Thank God I'm Atheist."

[Kaere]

A general reminder for everyone.

Respect: Please respect other member’s and their beliefs, opinions, and views at all times. Abuse and abusive posts (of any nature) will not be tolerated. Breaches of this ruling will result in posts being removed, warnings and if continued, DA. Mocking, and belittling other members also counts as disrespect.


This includes members who are atheists and those who aren't.

[inspirit]

Well the Ten Commandments handed down by God say that you should not kill. Jesus said that you should love your enemies. Maybe other religious books make excuses for killing in God's name but the Bible certainly does not. People who do that sort of thing are hypocrites, not following God.

[Animus27]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.

I do not think Atheism creates selfishness. Although, there can be selfish people who happen to be atheist.

Many atheists are good for the sake of being good, they don't expect some cosmic reward, or fear punishment if they're not compassionate.
Thus, I would say many religious people tend to be selfish due to the fact that they think there's a scoreboard tracking them :D


Also, atheism is no belief system, there are many Buddhist atheists. An atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in a god

[Kapitan_Prien]

Animus: Thus, I would say many religious people tend to be selfish due to the fact that they think there's a scoreboard tracking them :D

I have to say that I feel the same way myself on the subject.

[daisy]

oh the irony.

Athiests are selfish and depraved how exactly?

They are not the ones peddling demonic stories of fear
They are not the ones exorcising children who are apparently witches or demons
They are not the ones waging war with other nations
They are not the ones demeaning women or gay people
They are not the ones adding to the spread of HIV across Africa and the population explosions and poverty in parts of Asia

Athiests are pointing out the damage being caused to Earth due to mans made up versions of their God. Depraved and selfish for doing that? I admire them for a lot of what they say. I am not an athiest but the religious / spiritual world is causing so much damage and I am glad there are movements out there pointing it out and asking questions.




(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=67430)
Applauds Shepherd

[daisy]

I definitely think that atheists are a bit selfish. To me there is a big difference between agnostic and atheist though since an atheist doesn't believe in God whereas an agnostic person just claims to not know. Of course a lot of supposedly religious people are selfish too but they probably don't believe in a loving God.


Everyone can be selfish regardless of their beliefs or non beliefs

[Greenslade]

I do not think Atheism creates selfishness. Although, there can be selfish people who happen to be atheist.

Many atheists are good for the sake of being good, they don't expect some cosmic reward, or fear punishment if they're not compassionate.
Thus, I would say many religious people tend to be selfish due to the fact that they think there's a scoreboard tracking them :D


Also, atheism is no belief system, there are many Buddhist atheists. An atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in a god

There's a big difference between being who and what you are because that is your true Nature, and being something you're not because it's the way you're told to be. If people are decent people because that's who they are, that's all to the good. If they're playing at decent because they fear the wrath of God, that's something else again and that insincerity shows.

[Lynn]

Hello

Well being on that has tavelled the road down one path to find no end to it and then find the fork in the road that lead to another path and to find no end to that one along the religious understandings of life.

What I came to find is that there maybe is NOT one TRUTH but many TRUTHS out there. We are individual in our cultrues and our land we live in too we are individual in the faiths we have to choose from.

YES most times from childhood we can be directed and for some that path stays with us but at times we do not embrace what is there. We do it at times out of respect.

Missing in the WORLD is that respect. That WE ARE ONE thinking on what common thread makes up man its DNA we all share in that. SO why do we so feel that we are not ONE.

To beleive in God or not matters NOT I personally feel. I work as a Medium and I have come to cross over some very nasty people . NEVER had I had that Door of Light not open nor have I ever felt or had it said NO ye can not come ye are not welcome. Never have I had the door open to flames.

I do not call what I feel fits me God but I am told that I very much walk with God in that I am Light in the work I do. I can embrace that Univeral Light to many is God , be that any form of God one chooses.

I would LOVe a World where we could all say WE are ONE that we all can openly embrace and learn what the one next us beleives in without haveing judgements or saying ye are wrong and I am right. There to me is no right and wrong if one walks a spiritual path and one is on that path for the Enlightenement or betterment of one's very Soul. We all have a Soul and we are all LIGHT.

Be there lessons to learn when we pass YES I feel there must be something. Do we have to have any fatih for our Soul to move forward NO I dont feel we do.

The best story I have in communicating with a Spirit was this woman that sent me a picture of an Orb and her Dad's face came to me in it. I was able to reach him and he said to me " I have nothing to say to you, you talk to the dead and that I do not beleive in. Never have never will, you die and that is that done. There is no God or Heaven." and he left.

I told his Daughter this and she said OMG that was SO Dad. Yet he did talk to me. He was NOT religious at all. Yet his Spirit moved on. She felt so good to know he was well and safe.

That is what matters in the end not that we beleive or not beleive but that we carry on....that there is more than just the body we have. We are as man on a wonderous journey to becoming more . What that will be time shows that hand....but it will be wonderous.


Lynn

[Lightspirit]

We all need to remember that. It works for God-fearing people too, right?


Us Athiests aren't too good with honey and gentleness, eh? I dont like seeing arguing christian/atheist no one wants to know bout what you believe if you don't be nice. I was just writing intuitively as the words came to me. I guess since I started this I also feel responsible a bit if 2 people find themselves in a dispute, for suggesting the idea.

[arive nan]

Well, if it was intuition there's probably a reason for why it was meant to be posted. That's what I tend to believe.

[Kapitan_Prien]

Originally Posted by shepherd
oh the irony.

Athiests are selfish and depraved how exactly?

They are not the ones peddling demonic stories of fear
They are not the ones exorcising children who are apparently witches or demons
They are not the ones waging war with other nations
They are not the ones demeaning women or gay people
They are not the ones adding to the spread of HIV across Africa and the population explosions and poverty in parts of Asia

Athiests are pointing out the damage being caused to Earth due to mans made up versions of their God. Depraved and selfish for doing that? I admire them for a lot of what they say. I am not an athiest but the religious / spiritual world is causing so much damage and I am glad there are movements out there pointing it out and asking questions.



Also applauds Shepherd.

[AnnoyingPony]

As I've said, there's nothing wrong with asking questions about God. I suspect that many atheists are actually agnostic because they don't know that God exists but don't claim to know that he doesn't exist either. But you shouldn't stick up for true atheism, the doctrine that God doesn't exist based on a lack of proof.

Agnosticism is defined as "the position that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; claiming neither faith nor disbelief in God.

Atheism is simply "not believing in God". It doesn't make any positive claim that requires proof. It's not a religion. It's not even a doctrine. Heck, even a lot of Buddhists could be classified as atheists because they don't believe in a higher power. It's simply a lack of belief in those higher powers.

Hopefully it's obvious that God does not approve of killing in his name.

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

[AnnoyingPony]

oh the irony.

Athiests are selfish and depraved how exactly?

They are not the ones peddling demonic stories of fear
They are not the ones exorcising children who are apparently witches or demons
They are not the ones waging war with other nations
They are not the ones demeaning women or gay people
They are not the ones adding to the spread of HIV across Africa and the population explosions and poverty in parts of Asia

Athiests are pointing out the damage being caused to Earth due to mans made up versions of their God. Depraved and selfish for doing that? I admire them for a lot of what they say. I am not an athiest but the religious / spiritual world is causing so much damage and I am glad there are movements out there pointing it out and asking questions.




(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=67430)

*applauds Shepard*

[Shim]

oh the irony.

Athiests are selfish and depraved how exactly?

They are not the ones peddling demonic stories of fear
They are not the ones exorcising children who are apparently witches or demons
They are not the ones waging war with other nations
They are not the ones demeaning women or gay people
They are not the ones adding to the spread of HIV across Africa and the population explosions and poverty in parts of Asia

Athiests are pointing out the damage being caused to Earth due to mans made up versions of their God. Depraved and selfish for doing that? I admire them for a lot of what they say. I am not an athiest but the religious / spiritual world is causing so much damage and I am glad there are movements out there pointing it out and asking questions.

(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=67430)


Do something.

WorldVision (http://www.worldvision.org/)



In the fourth century Christianity introduced hospitals to the world, Greeks and Roman had no such institutions of compassion. Christians, moved by Christ’s words (Matthew 25:36: "I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me"), built hospices as early as 325 and hospitals in 369-- first in the East and then in the West. The names of numerous hospitals still reflect this Christian origin: St. John’s Hospital, Lutheran Hospital, Presbyterian Hospital, ect.

[debbie.b]

Do something.

WorldVision (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldvision.org%2F )



In the fourth century Christianity introduced hospitals to the world, Greeks and Roman had no such institutions of compassion. Christians, moved by Christ’s words (Matthew 25:36: "I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me"), built hospices as early as 325 and hospitals in 369-- first in the East and then in the West. The names of numerous hospitals still reflect this Christian origin: St. John’s Hospital, Lutheran Hospital, Presbyterian Hospital, ect.

shim, i am actually going with you on this one. the greeks & romans were uncaring & should i say, barbaric at times & didn't much care for their fellow man as long as they were ok themselves.

[Chrysaetos]

In the fourth century Christianity introduced hospitals to the world, Greeks and Roman had no such institutions of compassion. Christians, moved by Christ’s words (Matthew 25:36: "I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me"), built hospices as early as 325 and hospitals in 369-- first in the East and then in the West. The names of numerous hospitals still reflect this Christian origin: St. John’s Hospital, Lutheran Hospital, Presbyterian Hospital, ect. Cool, not bad.

But if we compare Ancient Antiquity with the Christian Dark Ages, the former was better for the people. At least there was no taboo on physiology in the Ancient world. And there was room for critical thinking, scepticism, and rationalism. It's not a coincidence that scientific thinking gained a power boost when Ancient Antiquity was 'reborn' (Renaissance).

shim, i am actually going with you on this one. the greeks & romans were uncaring & should i say, barbaric at times & didn't much care for their fellow man as long as they were ok themselves.
Compared to our time, perhaps yes, but they were very advanced for their time.

Good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatc h%3Fv%3DExWfh6sGyso)

[debbie.b]

Cool, not bad.

But if we compare Ancient Antiquity with the Christian Dark Ages, the former was better for the people. At least there was no taboo on physiology in the Ancient world. And there was room for critical thinking, scepticism, and rationalism. It's not a coincidence that scientific thinking gained a power boost when Ancient Antiquity was 'reborn' (Renaissance).


Compared to our time, perhaps yes, but they were very advanced for their time.

Good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

yes they were very advanced, i've been to roman & greek archeological sites & they were masters at building etc. i know they had physicians in their times also but they were only available for the wealthy. no good will or charitable behaviour there. :rolleyes:

[Miss Hepburn]

Atheists seem to be great people - that I know- maybe because they
think or believe this is their only life here.
So they seem kind of extra nice ---to me.

If this is your only life - it kind of makes you want to make the best of it, imo.
:smile:

[debbie.b]

Atheists seem to be great people - that I know- maybe because they
think or believe this is their only life here.
So they seem kind of extra nice ---to me.

If this is your only life - it kind of makes you want to make the best of it, imo.
:smile:

i believe i have had many lives & will have many more. i have a very strong belief in this & i also believe that no matter who we are or what we choose to believe, we are all equal. :smile:

[otto]

Hey there.
Less Government, more people... We have way to many watch dogs community Church driven outreach programs, using the patriot act to hide behind and spend our tax paying dollars. When this money could be used to do some real good...

Oh don't get me started! I live in the West Texas Bible belt and they love to try and run everyones life, and tell them how it should be lived... And guess what friends. That is our money we pay into the system, that is to be used to protect this country.

I am an Army Brat, Dad 25 years Special Forces, Brother 25 years Special Forces, (I love this country). My brother Now working for Homeland Security still giving his life for everyone of us... We need to protect our selfs for sure...

But this is abuse of our Tax paying money to try and micromanage everyones life through these so call ex-hall monitor types, that can't stand they can't run, your life and mine...
Take Care Melanie

[happyfool]

Hi everyone

I think charity is not related to being athiest or not....

And how can you find the number of athiest doin charity ??

Athiest will not always proclaim or put a badge on him/her that he/she is an athiest

Athiest population just like religious population consists of peoples who think for themselves and peoples who dont hav the courage OR capibility to think for themselves...
and mark my words the percentage of peoples who think for themselves is much higher in Athiest...

Most athiest are athiest coz they are not happy by the limit imposed by organised religions....and not satisfied by the illogical expalanations by the so called peoples who think themselves to be the authority of the religions...if the religions focus on spirituality and put god as secondary there will be negligible athiests in this world...

Just the other day I went through a thread..who OR what is god? ..there each person had different idea about god...so think how the organised religions block the inquisitiveness about god and godliness when peoples are forced to believe in only what is said without satisfying his/her understanding and logic..

I think it is sad that peoples are being forced away from enjoing spirituality just because they are athiests...OR to put it in a better way... peoples who are Athiest just because they are forced to believe what they cannot believe based on their understanding...

[Greenslade]

oh the irony.

Athiests are selfish and depraved how exactly?

They are not the ones peddling demonic stories of fear
They are not the ones exorcising children who are apparently witches or demons
They are not the ones waging war with other nations
They are not the ones demeaning women or gay people
They are not the ones adding to the spread of HIV across Africa and the population explosions and poverty in parts of Asia

Athiests are pointing out the damage being caused to Earth due to mans made up versions of their God. Depraved and selfish for doing that? I admire them for a lot of what they say. I am not an athiest but the religious / spiritual world is causing so much damage and I am glad there are movements out there pointing it out and asking questions.




(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=67430)

Amen to that, Shepherd. I think a little Enlightenment wouldn't be a bad thing here. Instead of discussing what a particular belief system is good or bad maybe we should be discussing from a standpoint of understanding? There is a far deeper irony going on here that seems to be lost on most people. You don't have to believe in God to do God's work :-)


I dont like seeing arguing christian/atheist no one wants to know bout what you believe if you don't be nice. I was just writing intuitively as the words came to me. I guess since I started this I also feel responsible a bit if 2 people find themselves in a dispute, for suggesting the idea.

Arguing is sometimes good, lightworker. Perhaps people are seeing both sides of an argument that they had never seen before. Perhaps if people weren't so entrenched in their belief systems, they might poke their heads above the sandbags once in a while to see the faces of their opponents - and I include all belief systems in that.

Understanding another belief system doesn't necessarily mean you'll loose your own, understanding Atheism doesn't mean God-fearing people will burn in Hell. If you see understanding as such a threat to your own beliefs, then perhaps your beliefs are not as consolidated as they should be. And that I would say to anyone who holds any beliefs. Unless I missed it, nobody has actually asked an Atheist what they believe in and why. Surely as Spiritual people seeking Enlightenment, isn't that something we should be doing?

[Lightspirit]

Amen to that, Shepherd. I think a little Enlightenment wouldn't be a bad thing here. Instead of discussing what a particular belief system is good or bad maybe we should be discussing from a standpoint of understanding? There is a far deeper irony going on here that seems to be lost on most people. You don't have to believe in God to do God's work :-)




Arguing is sometimes good, lightworker. Perhaps people are seeing both sides of an argument that they had never seen before. Perhaps if people weren't so entrenched in their belief systems, they might poke their heads above the sandbags once in a while to see the faces of their opponents - and I include all belief systems in that.

Understanding another belief system doesn't necessarily mean you'll loose your own, understanding Atheism doesn't mean God-fearing people will burn in Hell. If you see understanding as such a threat to your own beliefs, then perhaps your beliefs are not as consolidated as they should be. And that I would say to anyone who holds any beliefs. Unless I missed it, nobody has actually asked an Atheist what they believe in and why. Surely as Spiritual people seeking Enlightenment, isn't that something we should be doing?I noticed the charity in your post :) you guys probably didnt pick it up but I have some christian beliefs this thread was never ment to be an atheist bashing thread but more an exploration of the idea of why the original question i asked. All of us embracing each others differences and respecting is so important. why would anyone want to listen to what you have to say if its not said in love and tolerance?
talking civilly and respectfully dispels everyone's preconceived notions on our different belief systems how we would all interact together. That is so needed. The whole thread was worth it for that. plus I got to learn a little about Atheists.

your probably wondering what someone with some christian beliefs is doing with a username like that, i was reading some lightworker websites just before joining and thought to myself I would like to aspire to that way of thinking plus I liked the name and was too lazy to spend 10 minutes dreaming up something else.

[Greenslade]

I noticed the charity in your post :) you guys probably didnt pick it up but I have some christian beliefs this thread was never ment to be an atheist bashing thread but more an exploration of the idea of why the original question i asked. All of us embracing each others differences and respecting is so important. why would anyone want to listen to what you have to say if its not said in love and tolerance?
talking civilly and respectfully dispels everyone's preconceived notions on our different belief systems how we would all interact together. That is so needed. The whole thread was worth it for that. plus I got to learn a little about Atheists.

your probably wondering what someone with some christian beliefs is doing with a username like that, i was reading some lightworker websites just before joining and thought to myself I would like to aspire to that way of thinking plus I liked the name and was too lazy to spend 10 minutes dreaming up something else.

Actually, I wasn't wondering. I don't see anything wrong with a Christian having LightWorker as a moniker, not being entrenched in dogma means I can take a different perspective in all of this - vive la difference! Yes, I'm an Athiest but I can also work with other people's belief systems as well. Taking it from a religious perspective, isn't being a LightWorker God's work? Perhaps something for the fundamentalist Christians to ponder. I often wonder who the Christians really are :-)

[Lightspirit]

Actually, I wasn't wondering. I don't see anything wrong with a Christian having LightWorker as a moniker, not being entrenched in dogma means I can take a different perspective in all of this - vive la difference! Yes, I'm an Athiest but I can also work with other people's belief systems as well. Taking it from a religious perspective, isn't being a LightWorker God's work? Perhaps something for the fundamentalist Christians to ponder. whats a fundamentalist christian? it sounds booring and closed minded. lightworker is just a nice name dont you get bored trying to make up names on these things you try your name 10 different ways, then try something else you like 5 different ways.. you know how it is.... where was i last?...lightworker website.....yeah that works that will do who cares!. I like some of their ideas.

This might make you smile i found it today:)


(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblo gs.technet.com%252Fphotos%252Fgray_knowlton%252Fim ages%252F2998979%252Foriginal.aspx)

[Lightspirit]

http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.aspx

[Kapitan_Prien]

^ *busts up laughing*

[Greenslade]

Thanks for the smile, LightWorker. Much needed on this thread I think.

It's all too simple. Unless I've missed it, not once have I seen anything like "So you're an Athiest, what do you believe and why?" Are people so Enlightened they don't need to, or want to?

[Lightspirit]

Thanks for the smile, LightWorker. Much needed on this thread I think.

It's all too simple. Unless I've missed it, not once have I seen anything like "So you're an Athiest, what do you believe and why?" Are people so Enlightened they don't need to, or want to? to tell you the truth mate i am not sure why, maybe this thread, it was followed by more atheists and they already know.
it might make a new thread so you can gauge what people assume to know about it.

I always thought an atheist was one who rejects the notion of a divine god etc

[002 Cents]

Search for 'humanist charity'
337,000 results.

http://www.emoticonhq.com/images/ICQ/thumbsup.jpg Like

[002 Cents]

to tell you the truth mate i am not sure why, maybe this thread, it was followed by more atheists and they already know.
it might make a new thread so you can gauge what people assume to know about it.

I always thought an atheist was one who rejects the notion of a divine god etc
My husband considered himself atheist until he took this quiz http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/BeliefOMatic.aspx (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.beliefnet.com%25 252FEntertainment%25252FQuizzes%25252FBeliefOMatic .aspx)

Which said he was in fact Secular Humanist.

Secular Humanism shares the belief of no supreme being with added emphasis on the fact that you need not be in an organized religion to be a moral person.

@ lightworkers comic

http://www.cheertumbling.com/pics/laughing-smiley2.gif

and on a side note.. DO NOT GOOGLE "ROTFL", EVEN WITH YOUR PARENTAL CONTROLS ON, AND VIEW IMAGES WHEN YOUR KID IS STANDING NEXT TO YOU!!!! :icon_eek:

[Lynn]

I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.

Hello

Taking this thread back to ONE the first post. I feel this is a valid question that is asked her. Having gone the Atheist path in life for a time I had NO HOME to address it with.

Start with frist what is Atheism and what is an Athiest. When one takes the view of how I saw it I rejected all beleifs in the existance of any form of "dieties" . Now when I say "diety" this i what I mean - a supernatural being, whom was thought of as being a HIGHER power or force thought to be hioly as in God or devine as being something or someone to be worshiped.

I did not beleive in anything or one higer than self. I did not beleive in God. Thouh I still atteneded Church ( with family) for a time. It was thought to be something very dark and even negative. To have no faith was to be on a path downwards to another place I did not buy into.

This Athiest movment can be traced back a long time. THought it has never become a mass beleif. Where do Athiests attend to have some understandings.....many follow a Metaphysical Path where NO Dogma is attached to the meeting place.

I so feel that no matter what faith path one walks along one does good work if one CHOOSES that path. I have known many higer up in the Church structures that I can honestly say I DID NOT see do much but deligate it out of say it was the WORK of God. The act of giving back does not need one to wear a name tag saying I follow this spiritual path or that one. We do good work if that is in our HEART to give back.

Some even give back here in many ways and might WELL not see they are giving something back with the words tyeped here.

How does he Athiest view reflect on or benifit fellow man.....its not the faith I feel that one walks with that defines whom one is and what good or bad one does, its the person that individual that does.

I do not walk the path of God but I have come to understandings that I can not prove or disprove the extistance of God or Gods or Devine Beings so I embrace that path fit to some. Now not all feel the same back towards me so be it. We are all one....but we fail to see what man is.....

Lynn

[stormdancer]

I hate people that think they have to change who they are...how they dress...what music they listen to in order to attempt to fit in........HELLO NEWSFLASH!!!!…. your never going fit in ... we are all different...and for a good reason...why don’t you make out your own path and follow that because if you follow others all your life you will not achieve anything yourself.....I guess some people are so afraid to show there true self at fear of being judged...well I say if they don’t like me .... then **** them that’s there problem....people are afraid to go at it alone.. they don't want to be out cast from others....let me tell you something................ If you do what YOU want to do you will be much happier...don’t listen to others...learn from your own mistakes.....being alone is everybody’s fear and its not nice but you need to be alone to become your own person and then make true friends in life that like you for exactly who YOU are.

Ghandi said, "I am dedicated to truth not consistency." Sometimes you just have to determine what the person's motives are. Actions and words are one thing, but they can be just as easily misunderstood when you are not in tuned with the person's motives. Some people are like water, put them in any container and they take on that shape. If you care, then look deeper into the person's essence and don't get hung up on roles and names.

Peace and Love

Storm xxxxx

p.s loves shepherd xx u da man mate xx

[JEN]

Have to agree...... and I dislike 'labels'. OK, so I had nothing much to do today! AND I am very interested in the power of semantics and origins of words. So when you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do, you might like to read this 'overview' from Wikapedia.

My only point is that it can be misleading to assume your 'label' for something/ someone, fits with everyone elses, so defining your position/understanding, leads to clarity in a discussion. Hohum.... am I rambling again!

Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century.[7]

Today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist, while a further 11.9% is described as nonreligious.[8] Between 64% and 65% of Japanese are atheists, agnostics, or do not believe in God.[9] In Europe, the estimated percentage of atheists, agnostics and other nonbelievers in a personal god ranges as low as single digits in Poland, Romania, Cyprus, and some other countries,[10] and up to 85% in Sweden (where 17% identify themselves as atheists), 80% in Denmark, 72% in Norway, and 60% in Finland.[9]

Atheists tend to lean toward skepticism regarding supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Atheists have offered several rationales for not believing in any deity. These include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies,[11][12] there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[13]

In Western culture, atheists are frequently assumed to be exclusively irreligious or unspiritual.[14] However, atheism also figures in certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, and some forms of Buddhism that do not advocate belief in gods.[15] Hinduism also holds atheism to be valid, but difficult to follow spiritually.

ETYMOLOGICALLY SPEAKING - (the origin of the term)
In early ancient Greek, the adjective atheos (ἄθεος, from the privative ἀ- + θεός "god") meant "godless". It was first used as a term of censure roughly meaning "ungodly" or "impious". In the 5th century BCE, the word began to indicate more-intentional, active godlessness in the sense of "severing relations with the gods" or "denying the gods", instead of the earlier meaning of "impious".

The term ἀσεβής (asebēs) then came to be applied against those who impiously denied or disrespected the local gods, even if they believed in other gods. Modern translations of classical texts sometimes render atheos as "atheistic". As an abstract noun, there was also ἀθεότης (atheotēs), "atheism". Cicero transliterated the Greek word into the Latin atheos. The term found frequent use in the debate between early Christians and Hellenists, with each side attributing it, in the pejorative sense, to the other.[18]

In English, the term atheism was derived from the French athéisme in about 1587.[19] The term atheist (from Fr. athée), in the sense of "one who denies or disbelieves the existence of God",[20] predates atheism in English, being first attested in about 1571.[21] Atheist as a label of practical godlessness was used at least as early as 1577.[22] Related words emerged later: deist in 1621,[23] theist in 1662;[24] theism in 1678;[25] and deism in 1682.[26] Deism and theism changed meanings slightly around 1700, due to the influence of atheism; deism was originally used as a synonym for today's theism, but came to denote a separate philosophical doctrine.[27]

Karen Armstrong writes that "During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, the word 'atheist' was still reserved exclusively for polemic ... The term 'atheist' was an insult. Nobody would have dreamed of calling himself an atheist."[7] Atheism was first used to describe a self-avowed belief in late 18th-century Europe, specifically denoting disbelief in the monotheistic Abrahamic god.[28] In the 20th century, globalization contributed to the expansion of the term to refer to disbelief in all deities, though it remains common in Western society to describe atheism as simply "disbelief in God".[29]
Some atheists have doubted the very nature of the term "atheism". Sam Harris said:
In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs

Kind regards, JEN

[Greenslade]

to tell you the truth mate i am not sure why, maybe this thread, it was followed by more atheists and they already know.
it might make a new thread so you can gauge what people assume to know about it.

I always thought an atheist was one who rejects the notion of a divine god etc

In an age of so-called Enlightenment, more people are fighting to defend their belief systems than trying to understand others'. I could say much more but...... Actually, this thread has given me a lot of Enlightenment, and in the irony of it all I can see that Atheists can do Gods work too :-)

So, there are 337,000 results for humanist charity on Google? Which means? Does that mean those charities have to be run by Christians and Atheists are not allowed to be humanists? For further Enlightenment, would it not be prudent to find out how many of those charities are either run by non-Christian people or have non-Christians working for them?


I do not walk the path of God but I have come to understandings that I can not prove or disprove the extistance of God or Gods or Devine Beings so I embrace that path fit to some. Now not all feel the same back towards me so be it. We are all one....but we fail to see what man is.....

A woman after my own Heart, Lynn. If more people stuck their heads above the religious sandbags that defend their religious trenches maybe they'd see that. They'd also find a more profound understanding of what they're trying to defend and see that there are no reasons to defend it.


I hate people that think they have to change who they are...how they dress...what music they listen to in order to attempt to fit in........HELLO NEWSFLASH!!!!…. your never going fit in ... we are all different...and for a good reason...why don’t you make out your own path and follow that because if you follow others all your life you will not achieve anything yourself.....I guess some people are so afraid to show there true self at fear of being judged...well I say if they don’t like me .... then **** them that’s there problem....people are afraid to go at it alone.. they don't want to be out cast from others....let me tell you something................ If you do what YOU want to do you will be much happier...don’t listen to others...learn from your own mistakes.....being alone is everybody’s fear and its not nice but you need to be alone to become your own person and then make true friends in life that like you for exactly who YOU are.

Ghandi said, "I am dedicated to truth not consistency." Sometimes you just have to determine what the person's motives are. Actions and words are one thing, but they can be just as easily misunderstood when you are not in tuned with the person's motives. Some people are like water, put them in any container and they take on that shape. If you care, then look deeper into the person's essence and don't get hung up on roles and names.

Peace and Love

Storm xxxxx

[COLOR=yellow]p.s loves shepherd xx u da man mate xx

You go girl

Look behind the mask. I am a confirmed Atheist and being honest I haven't seen anything here that would make me want to convert to Christianity - in fact quite the opposite. I can work with people's religious context and talk religion if that is the standpoint where the other person is coming from. How many others can say that? Honestly? because I haven't seen too much evidence of it here so far. All I have seen so far is people defending someone else's Truths and not having the courage to find their own. However, I do not judge people in that because I understand that this is their chosen Path.

Again I would ask - who is the Christian? Who is doing God's work?

[Kapitan_Prien]

Storm: Sometimes you just have to determine what the person's motives are. Actions and words are one thing, but they can be just as easily misunderstood when you are not in tuned with the person's motives. Some people are like water, put them in any container and they take on that shape. If you care, then look deeper into the person's essence and don't get hung up on roles and names.

I have to admit that, because my path may seem 'peculiar' to others...what with all the 'dark' stuff and all...that people quite often misunderstand me...much like my power/totem animal the Shark - a very often misunderstood creature.

I've realized that there aren't very many that aren't tuned in with my motives...it must be all the 'dark' stuff that puts them off or something...I don't know.

[Squatchit]

what with all the 'dark' stuff and all...much like my power/totem animal the Shark - a very often misunderstood creature.
Good afternoon Kap. :smile:

Just a slight tangent to the main conversation. Sharks are what you want to be when playing poker. If you're a shark, you wanna see fish. :D

The high stakes players (and the best of the best) are known as sharks. One of the casinoes in Las Vegas has a huge aquarium full of sharks and fish.

And I'm not sure whether it was noticed by you, but 'dark' and 'shark' rhyme.

I feel a poem coming on...:fish:

Love Squatch

[Kapitan_Prien]

Good Morning Squatch (it's 10.30 here on the US East Coast)

Ah I didn't know that...but, I don't play poker so...I wouldn't know. :D

Didn't realize the dark shark thing either... :P

[Lynn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
I do not walk the path of God but I have come to understandings that I can not prove or disprove the extistance of God or Gods or Devine Beings so I embrace that path fit to some. Now not all feel the same back towards me so be it. We are all one....but we fail to see what man is.....


Greenslade

{Quote}
A woman after my own Heart, Lynn. If more people stuck their heads above the religious sandbags that defend their religious trenches maybe they'd see that. They'd also find a more profound understanding of what they're trying to defend and see that there are no reasons to defend it.


[COLOR=royalblue]Hello

I know how easy it i to beleive that what faith ye have is the ONLY one. I really have no issues with that. If that path fits to someone so be it....but too can we not be OPEN to hearing ( not taking in fully ) but hearing other teachings as well.

I remember always what me Son said when he was in Kindergarden " Mom, if there was no such thing as Religion there would have been no Wars." Where this came from was kids talking about their "Sunday Bible School" and me Son not seeing that as he was called down for saying his Mom had many different books on Religion in the home.

He is now 12 and has gone with friends to a few of their Churches, to see what they talk about and do. Coming home to say Mom its really ALL the same . God it mentioned and Jesus and its lessons on how to be a "Good Person".

I asked him about what he said so long ago now, he goes I dont beleive that anymore on Religion as Man seems to just want to have war. To kill eachother.

There is no reason to have to defend what one belives in but we see that NEED, as we can not see the BIGGER picture the end result understanidngs.

The World has room for so many houses of faith, I look around the city I live. If a Church went on one corner the OTHER Church had to be on the the other corner.
One's that are friends and neibours outside Sunday Service do not wave or say Hi as they enter Sunday Morining. BUT go home to be freindly again.

I do see a World on day of ALL Religions and all Faiths in harmony and understandings, like a Library that houses all.


Lynn

[Summerkat]

I actually admire atheists quite a bit in todays world. They're good decent people and they take a lot of ridicule for their position on God. You have to be strong to be atheist today. I came very close to it and had I decided to be atheist I wasn't even sure I had what it takes to live it in society. Everywhere you go the God message is shoved down your throat.

When we were kids, my brother's best friend was atheist because their whole family was. His parents were always so kind to us kids and our family. His father was a police officer and dealt with a lot of the ugly side of life yet he was truly a great man. By their example, even as kids we could see you didn't have to have God to be good people.

[Lynn]

Hello


I have been sitting here thinking on what is God's work. Really do we NOT all do it on some level even if we do not go to call on God.

If one is a hearler or if one offers a blessing to someone that is not well, if one gives someone a hand up in life is this not all what God would want from us.

We are all in the same universe we are all of the same genetic makeups we just see ideas different at times is all in what BOOK maybe we choose to read from.

I would like to think that if there be a God that being looks down with a SMILE as we are trying here in this place to undertand eachother and give back something.....

Lynn

[Greenslade]

I actually admire atheists quite a bit in todays world. They're good decent people and they take a lot of ridicule for their position on God. You have to be strong to be atheist today. I came very close to it and had I decided to be atheist I wasn't even sure I had what it takes to live it in society. Everywhere you go the God message is shoved down your throat.

When we were kids, my brother's best friend was atheist because their whole family was. His parents were always so kind to us kids and our family. His father was a police officer and dealt with a lot of the ugly side of life yet he was truly a great man. By their example, even as kids we could see you didn't have to have God to be good people.

I think ridicule is part and parcel of today's society - Atheist or Christian. But there are so many people shoving their beliefs down your throat and few of them actually take the time to figure out if that's what you really want to believe. There's always a come-back if you think about it enough.

Hello
I have been sitting here thinking on what is God's work. Really do we NOT all do it on some level even if we do not go to call on God.
If one is a hearler or if one offers a blessing to someone that is not well, if one gives someone a hand up in life is this not all what God would want from us.
We are all in the same universe we are all of the same genetic makeups we just see ideas different at times is all in what BOOK maybe we choose to read from.
I would like to think that if there be a God that being looks down with a SMILE as we are trying here in this place to undertand eachother and give back something.....
Lynn

Too many people focus on the differences when we should be looking at the similarities. Because I don't quote from the Bible, does that make me a bad person? In this town I see so many so-called Christians that are only in it for themselves, they leave everything Christian at the door of the church after Sunday service. I'm currently working on a project for live music for the youth, something hopefully they'll enjoy and feel empowered in - not just participating but being a part of the steering group. It'll get them off the streets, doing something they'll be encouraged to be creative at and hopefully recognised qualifications as well. I'm not doing it out of fear of God or because some book says I should, but because everyone will get a lot out of it. And yes, that includes me.

I'm just curious as to how Squatch became so knowledgeable about poker, or has she been watching too much TV :-)

[Lightspirit]

You know the main thing in all this we all get on and join forces to help those that need it the poor Guys in china and other places that can't even afford shoes.
You know I was thinking yesterday I'll have to donate something to some charity for starting this thread. I'm staring to feel guilty if I don't. That will teach me about starting threads like this

[Summerkat]

You know the main thing in all this we all get on and join forces to help those that need it the poor Guys in china and other places that can't even afford shoes.
You know I was thinking yesterday I'll have to donate something to some charity for starting this thread. I'm staring to feel guilty if I don't. That will teach me about starting threads like this

OR help those nearby..no need to look too far. If everyone just did what they could where they live, and everyone else did that, problem solved.

[Greenslade]

You know the main thing in all this we all get on and join forces to help those that need it the poor Guys in china and other places that can't even afford shoes.
You know I was thinking yesterday I'll have to donate something to some charity for starting this thread. I'm staring to feel guilty if I don't. That will teach me about starting threads like this

On your head be it :-)

If we help others along the way, does it really matter what our beliefs are?

[Chrysaetos]

You know I was thinking yesterday I'll have to donate something to some charity for starting this thread. I'm staring to feel guilty if I don't. You don't have to feel guilty, it isn't your fault the world is harsh.

You can give money but you'll never know where it goes, it might be better to give clothes and shoes to one of those charitable organisations. Just like its better to give a homeless person a sandwich instead of money.

[Greenslade]

You know the main thing in all this we all get on and join forces to help those that need it the poor Guys in china and other places that can't even afford shoes.
You know I was thinking yesterday I'll have to donate something to some charity for starting this thread. I'm staring to feel guilty if I don't. That will teach me about starting threads like this

The thing about controversial threads like this is that they bring out certain traits in people. Don't see it as a guilt trip because others make of it what they will and you have no control over that. See it as an opportunity to learn - because that's what it is.

[Lightspirit]

The thing about controversial threads like this is that they bring out certain traits in people. Don't see it as a guilt trip because others make of it what they will and you have no control over that. See it as an opportunity to learn - because that's what it is. Ha it's all good dont worry If you are going to ask others about being charitable i guess you have to do it yourself and since I havnt recently I had better.:) it's a good thing al the talking about it reminded me plus the link in your signature did too greenslade :)

[Greenslade]

Ha it's all good dont worry If you are going to ask others about being charitable i guess you have to do it yourself and since I havnt recently I had better.:) it's a good thing al the talking about it reminded me plus the link in your signature did too greenslade :)

As long as you're not going to jump off a high place and get yourself splatted on the street:-) As for the link, it's just getting interesting since we've moved in a different direction. Actually, maybe I should hold it up as a shining example as to why the question shouldn't have been asked in the first place?

[stormdancer]

As usual this morning I woke up, laid in bed around 7am and found myself thinking some deeply Philosophical thoughts...as I do....so I thought I would share them with you today. Sorry I tend to go on a bit but i get there in the end.

If you were to take anything in the universe for example if you take even a large stone or a lump of crystal.. If you look at it ..and we define it by the parameters of what science says about what LIFE is....The stone is not LIFE...It does not reproduce. its basically according to us, how we perceive it. It's not self aware but if we expand our parameters of what we define as LIFE could we possibly even include minerals and what we see as innate matter? I mean who came up with the definition of what LIFE is anyway?...People did...We defined what the word LIFE means...We came up with the definition and I believe that definition has expanded throughout the centuries....But basically we still exclude 99.9% of the universe from LIFE! We say we are alive, but what are we made of? We are made of minerals, if you break it down further we are made of molecules and atoms and I guess we are aggregate, our physical bodies are aggregate of inner matter, yet we are alive! So we are a combination of innert matter that we consider to be dead, or non-LIFE and we are alive. So basically we are saying that LIFE comes from non-LIFE if that makes any sense...All things that we define as living are really aggregates of non-living substances......Think about it!
(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imagehost.org%2Fview %2F0844%2Fsmiley-signs002)
What if instead we decided we were going to expand our definition of what LIFE is to include all substances that are not inert, have a motion, and not just have a chaotic motion but all substances that follow some kind of law, because you know you cannot follow a law, any kind of law unless you have some kind of a degree even if minutely there of intelligence. Also if you look at the atoms we have ,as we were taught, atoms are made of protons and neutrons and electrons and they follow laws and they are never static, and if there was no type of intelligence there, maybe its not the same kind of intelligence as we define as intelligence as human intelligence but we also understand that there are different degrees of intelligence, even through the animals, plants which instinctively know to go towards the sun.. there is always in some form of LIFE some degree of intelligence....so....you keeping up lol... ....If there was no intelligence then in LIFE, LIFE would be pure chaos, there would be no atoms, there would be no laws, there would be no physics because there would be no intelligence. (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imagehost.org%2Fview %2F0525%2Fsmiley-think005)

I think we have a very limited perception of what we define as intelligence and what we define as LIFE. If we expand the parameters of what LIFE is and how we define it , I think it would be able to be.. and it would encompass the entire universe.

As far as our definition of LIFE is concerned at this moment in time.. humans exclude almost the entirety of what the universe is from LIFE...yet there is an intelligence in suns and stars....they follow some type of laws in physics and there has to be some type of intelligence in order for that to even take place. There has to be some type of intelligence for the atoms of our bodies and DNA to know how to form itself, to know how to create cells and there has to be some form of intelligence at work.

Another thought I was having.. yep more rambling sorry.. ...was that so many times in my posts and things I have written I use the word god. .I have to be frank with you that if I was actually to define what I mean by god it would not be what the majority of you and the world sees as god at all and this fits in with LIFE and I will explain...God to me is LIFE...Its LIFE...to me god is not an entity that is behind pearly gates and sits on a throne and is surrounded by angels that sing forever! I personally am going to say and this is my own opinion....but I believe that such a perspective of god is very immature...thats just how I judge it.. and you may disagree but i judge it that way and we all have our own perceptions of god etc .To me LIFE is god in fact in future when I write on the forum boards and anytime I use the word LIFE I am going to capitalize it as I have been doing on this post..just incase you wondered..lol...Just as the way the Christians etc would capitalize the word god. To me LIFE is god and so many people out there in the world claim to be atheists (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imagehost.org%2Fview %2F0078%2FBlahBlah), which I totally respect, except for as I was pondering this morning about the definition of LIFE I wondered if atheists believed in LIFE? Do they think that all of everything is just inert lacking in consciousness or lacking intelligence. We dont know what consciousness is and I don't believe we ever will be able to fully define consciousness itself aside from consciousness being a state of being self aware.

What if there is some kind of grander picture that we don't quite see from our position within the puzzle. You know we are one of the pieces and we don't see from our perspective the entire puzzle, the infinite puzzle that makes up the whole tapestry of what LIFE is and what we define god as LIFE? Do you believe in LIFE? Do you believe you are self aware? ..What does that mean you are saying? If we were just all inert matter and even aggregates were inert matter, then there would be no LIFE and their would be no intelligence, there would be no consciousness ... you and I would not be communicating right now. If you sit down and close your eyes and think about the fact that you exist and you are aware of this, could that also mean that maybe there is something going on beyond what you physically understand?

In my opinion those people who claim to be atheist are no better than religionists ..I mean they are not scientific, if you are an atheist you have to come to terms with the fact that you are not scientific as in order to be scientific you have to have an open mind, and if you are an atheist you are saying that there is nothing beyond just inert matter...then that is extremely closed minded.. bit like religionists who are closed minded to everything else...........But if you look at the rock/crystal I started this post with, under an electron microscope you will see that the rock is not inert, every particle of it is moving, there is never one instant when that rock is the same as it was a nano second before. Now it looks like a crystal/rock from our perspective but if you delve deeper into the essence of the rock you will see a non-static intelligence at work.

I think we need to expand our parameters of what we believe LIFE is. I also think that most people who claim to be atheists are not really atheists, I believe that they would open their minds to say " you know what, I don’t know what god is I don't believe he lives on a throne in the clouds or whatever people think but there is something else going on beyond what I understand"...and if that’s what you feel about things you are not an atheist you are an agnostic.. This means that you do not know what god is, you do not know what LIFE is or consciousness is..to me all of the three words are the same....you don't know what it is but you are willing to know there is something going on that you don't understand.. a grander scheme...So if you consider yourself to be an atheist.. which is fine.. I don't care if anyone is an atheist or not this is not a debate on whether their is a god or not....that is not what this is about...But I would like you to think about what you believe.. because if you believe in LIFE...in LIFE.....self awareness etc you are not an atheist.

My brain hurts!!!!!!

(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imagehost.org%2Fview %2F0499%2FHammer3)
Peace and Love

Storm xxx

[Lightspirit]

As long as you're not going to jump off a high place and get yourself splatted on the street:-) As for the link, it's just getting interesting since we've moved in a different direction. Actually, maybe I should hold it up as a shining example as to why the question shouldn't have been asked in the first place? noooo not at all, of course it was a good question in looking back eventually it would have entered someones mind now all of us have some light on it if asked. i have seen some Atheist post here that display genuine care :) Even not sharing same beliefs regarding god it dont matter. Why I wrote that before, I have christian beliefs I guess I am one. .. A Christian questions An atheist or anyone about their charity giving, even if it is a generalised question. I felt God really say to me " where is your charity?" All is as it should be, dont worry... but thanks for your concern :)

[LaMont Cranston]

I believe God exists, and I'm a big fan of Jesus. I'm also interested in how my fellow human beings explain and justify what they do or do not believe about the nature of existence and how things are the way they are.

In my quest for information (and my desire to be entertained), I have joined a number of Christian forums, atheist forums, lifestyle forums, etc. I have always made it clear that I am a theist, and I welcome the the best arguments of those with differing opinions, viewpoints, beliefs, etc.

I've got to say, I think that many atheists have taken a bad rap. I have found most atheists to be very nice, kind and loving people, and some of these people spend much more time studying the Bible and thinking about God than many so-called true believers.

I've also found that many of the true-believer Christian types are extremely close-minded. They really do come at you with a "believe it our way or else" kind of attitude, and I think that many organized religions have made serious mistakes with their "believe it or else" approach.

After examining all of the atheist arguments and rhetoric, I still believe God exists, and I'm an even bigger fan of Jesus. However, neither believers or non-believers have what any of us would consider to be a monopoly on having scumbags, hypocrites and arrogant types within their ranks.

It is quite easy to point fingers at the apparent deficiencies of others, but I find there is much more to be gained by appreciating those things we have in common. Are atheists just being selfish? In my experience, the answer is "no." From what I can tell, atheists, like just about everybody else, are looking to explain the nature of existence, and they have come up with a certain set of arguments to explain their position(s).

After considerable examination, I find many holes in the way that atheists attempt to justify their set of ideas and concepts, but, all things considered, I have found most of them to be very likeable people.

[stormdancer]

LaMont Cranston great post love how you see things and totally understand.


I've got to say, I think that many atheists have taken a bad rap. I have found most atheists to be very nice, kind and loving people, and some of these people spend much more time studying the Bible and thinking about God than many so-called true believers.




Just because you have a belief does not make anyone bad i think that is why the human race becomes very self centered.

I think we need to expand our parameters of what we believe LIFE is. I also think that most people who claim to be atheists are not really atheists, I believe that they would open their minds to say " you know what, I don’t know what god is I don't believe he lives on a throne in the clouds or whatever people think but there is something else going on beyond what I understand"...and if that’s what you feel about things you are not an atheist you are an agnostic.. This means that you do not know what god is, you do not know what LIFE is or consciousness is..to me all of the three words are the same....you don't know what it is but you are willing to know there is something going on that you don't understand.. a grander scheme...So if you consider yourself to be an atheist.. which is fine.. I don't care if anyone is an atheist or not this is not a debate on whether their is a god or not....that is not what this is about...But I would like you to think about what you believe.. because if you believe in LIFE...in LIFE.....self awareness etc you are not an atheist.


What someone believes and how someone thinks should have no effect on how that person is seen. I always get angry when 'christians' 'religionists' start to put atheists down because it should never matter what someone believes we should love that person unconditionally.....so what if thats their views.....Love and be there for that person..we teach through love..anger and rejection prooves nothing but hate and rejection....I can never hurt another part of me and we are all one when we go back to energy.

Peace and Love xx

Storm x

[Greenslade]

I don't define Life, StormDancer, because to do so would be putting it into a box and giving it a label, perhaps thinking that we had finally 'taped it down'. As the Tao Te Ching says (depending on the translation) "The Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao" - which goes along with your expanding definitions. Who are we to say what Life is or isn't? Because in our very narrow view of the Universe we have very little idea, you 99.9% could well be very conservative :-) What if a crystal could 'house' consciousness? The human body isn't too far away from crystal.

Yes, I believe in Life and my fellow human beings, so in that definition you could say I believe in God, but then I don't believe God created the Universe and everything in it. That brings us down to the 'Evolution vs Creation' argument that's going to rage for a long time yet. Believers are going to find enough evidence for their own beliefs either way.

Being Atheist doesn't mean you have to have a closed mind, my mind is probably more open that some of the Christians' minds I've seen on here according to what they've posted. Like I keep saying, being Atheist doesn't mean I can't have Christian values and an open mind. I know there are many things out there that are far beyond my limited awareness and perhaps one day I'll be able to encompass all of that. I know there are so many things beyond inert matter, I feel the Love of my guides when they come crashing in and slap my Heart with what feels like a bus. If I was just a bag of water and some minerals I wouldn't be able to feel that.

Yes, there is a grander scheme but what that is I don't know as yet, but then I've never had a problem admitting that. It's when we claim to have the answers then when those answers are challenged and defended with dogma in our own beliefs, who is narrow minded? I don't have the answers but just right now I'm enjoying looking for them, even though every answer leads to a dozen more questions. What does it mean when you know the answers?

To me, those words are not the same. Consciousness, God, Life - all different. I believe that the belief in God is like the belief in what scientists call 'Dark Matter'. There has to be something beyond the scientific knowledge that makes sense of it all, so they call it Dark Matter. They don't quite know what it is and the nature of it is changing - some don't even think it exists. Just because some believe it has to be there it doesn't mean it actually is.

We are all on a Path, Storm. No Path is better or worse, none more right nor wrong than any other. If we can't help each other along - regardless of beliefs - then what does that say about us?

A but, Lightworker, it does matter if we share those beliefs. We should, in an ideal world be able to share those beliefs and be able to discuss them in a very adult way. Form what I have seen, beliefs are not so far away after all. Once you drop the mask of definition and throw away the veil of difference, no beliefs are so far away from any other anyway. The only real differences are the ones we create. It's a pity that others didn't hear that question - "where is your charity?". And somehow I couldn't see you jumping off a high place for such trivial reasons, if only more had your openness.

Well, LaMont, it's refreshing that a Christian should echo the beliefs of an Atheist :-) It's not about belief systems, it's about people, every time.

No matter what our beliefs we should never put another down. I believe that if we do that then we only hurt ourselves, because the putting down denies us a whole range of possible understanding. From a Christian perspective, if you put someone down then do you put a part of God's work down as well? Form a Spiritual perspective, I have to agree with Storm - "I can never hurt another part of me and we are all one when we go back to energy."

We are all heading for the same place at the end of the day, and the only real difference I can see is what we call it and how we get there.

[Mak_antife]

I dont think my atheism came as a choice as it is so often claimed by the religious of other faiths. I just realized one day that I could no longer believe. I did not say that I choose not to believe, I just simply recognised that I could no longer believe.

[Scibat]

No, I don't think Atheism is used as an excuse to be uncharitable. But like anything else, individuals who subscribe to Atheism may use it as such. Like there are "Christians" who only go to church services as a means of networking and improving their income/business interests. :angel12:

[3dnow]

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?


You cannot post this kind of messages and false accusations about other people.

3dnow

[Greenslade]

I dont think my atheism came as a choice as it is so often claimed by the religious of other faiths. I just realized one day that I could no longer believe. I did not say that I choose not to believe, I just simply recognised that I could no longer believe.

Same here. It got to the stage where religion just stopped working any more and it was time to leave it behind. For me though, it was partly the attitudes and the hypocrisy of it, if people can't practice what they preach then what is the point of any of it?

[Lightspirit]

You cannot post this kind of messages and false accusations about other people.

3dnow It was more a passing question one day I didn't expect it to go on for ages like it did. Fresh in my mind from talking to an atheist taxi driver that day He didn't impress me with concern for others and was as much as some other people, and was a bit dismissive of his responsibility to other people. I wondered if there was a connection to his beliefs and his attitude. Then I got the idea to look up charities to see if there was any. Thats why that question was worded like that. So I asked the atheists and they showed me places where they do do charity and that they have good hearts many of them. I know lots of atheists that are nice people anyway that live near me. they dont mind my beliefs either.

What happened in this thread if nothing else it was an example of how people with different beliefs could interact peacefully and maturely without arguments. Sadly it is a thing I dont see enough of on forums that discuss religious topics.

[3dnow]

It was more a passing question one day I didn't expect it to go on for ages like it did. Fresh in my mind from talking to an atheist taxi driver that day He didn't impress me with concern for others and was as much as some other people, and was a bit dismissive of his responsibility to other people. I wondered if there was a connection to his beliefs and his attitude. Then I got the idea to look up charities to see if there was any. Thats why that question was worded like that. So I asked the atheists and they showed me places where they do do charity and that they have good hearts many of them. I know lots of atheists that are nice people anyway that live near me. they dont mind my beliefs either.

What happened in this thread if nothing else it was an example of how people with different beliefs could interact peacefully and maturely without arguments. Sadly it is a thing I dont see enough of on forums that discuss religious topics.

Cool! thanks for sharing.

3dnow

[Greenslade]

It was more a passing question one day I didn't expect it to go on for ages like it did. Fresh in my mind from talking to an atheist taxi driver that day He didn't impress me with concern for others and was as much as some other people, and was a bit dismissive of his responsibility to other people. I wondered if there was a connection to his beliefs and his attitude. Then I got the idea to look up charities to see if there was any. Thats why that question was worded like that. So I asked the atheists and they showed me places where they do do charity and that they have good hearts many of them. I know lots of atheists that are nice people anyway that live near me. they dont mind my beliefs either.

What happened in this thread if nothing else it was an example of how people with different beliefs could interact peacefully and maturely without arguments. Sadly it is a thing I dont see enough of on forums that discuss religious topics.

It's less about the belief system and more about the people that share those beliefs. Birds of a feather and all that, and the 'rubbing off' of attitudes from the people around us. Products of our environment. These forms are an example of that, how many people's attitudes have changed since spending time in here? It's too easy to label people because of one small group of people and judge them on that. We shouldn't label people and we shouldn't judge. Perhaps religious forums are filled with people who can't or won't see past religious beliefs that lock them into a given set of beliefs and attitudes. It's a bit like saying "I'm a Christian so I'm going to think/act like the Christians around me to fit in". Then you close the box and nail it down shut, everything outside of that box is wrong. Perhaps in this forum where you have such a diverse mix, the people who come on aren't quite so keen on boxes - but it does happen.

Christian is as Christian does.

[Kapitan_Prien]

I think folks should watch this:

ABC News - The Science of Monkey Morality (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/science-monkey-morality-human-link-similarities-evolution-12299947)

[Greenslade]

What happened in this thread if nothing else it was an example of how people with different beliefs could interact peacefully and maturely without arguments. Sadly it is a thing I dont see enough of on forums that discuss religious topics.

Only 'coz I couldn't find the nuke'em icon :wink:

I think folks should watch this:

ABC News - The Science of Monkey Morality (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/science-monkey-morality-human-link-similarities-evolution-12299947)

Kinda makes you wonder, eh? I often wonder how any religion started. Was it down to one person proclaiming themselves to have all the answers and the others following like sheep?

[psychoslice]

Actually I think the question should be the other way around, many who profess to be spiritual think their above those who are not, they think they have a one way ticket to heaven, while they think also those who don't believe what they believe are doomed.

[Greenslade]

Actually I think the question should be the other way around, many who profess to be spiritual think their above those who are not, they think they have a one way ticket to heaven, while they think also those who don't believe what they believe are doomed.

One-upmanship happens whether it's religion, Spirituality or having a more expensive car.

[psychoslice]

One-upmanship happens whether it's religion, Spirituality or having a more expensive car.
Yes thats so true, so really there's no use in the the question in the first place, its meaningless.

[Lynn]

Yes thats so true, so really there's no use in the the question in the first place, its meaningless.


Hello


There is always that one upmanship. Even in the very plants that are on the Earth. They too fight for that ray of Sun. Its how things seem to work.

When it comes to humans we are a BLIP in the time of the Earth. We have not been aroud long.....really.

When one looks to religion it might well be just that we have had that NEED for self expression, that need to be different to stand out some.

Is there such a thing as a question that is "meaningless" I personally feel not as it is in us asking questions that we learn is it not ? Do we not from a very early age start with the "WHY" in life. We too from a very early age learn I feel to be somewhat selfish WE have "OUR" belongings and we are very possessive at times on them. That could be at times be see selfish if one does not share.

If one chooses a path of non belief one is still a very Spiritual person as one still seeks to understand in something that fits to them.


Lynn:hug3:

[SeaZen]

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.

I really feel this whole thread topic borders on the ridiculous if not insulting. Atheists look at the big picture and see how exclusive dogmatic religionism contributes to religious wars, strife, separatism etc. and how human resources and time are wasted on this instead of the betterment of humanity and wish to correct this error.

Feeding the needy is nice of course, but atheists wish to correct the cause instead of merely treating the symptoms. Atheism is highly spiritual when you get to its core. They want to see a world that is free of religious strife that works together for the betterment of all.

I still feel its a religion of sorts and that they have their "extremists" so to speak that ridicule religionists, but I nevertheless see their movement as much more spiritually evolved than any religion and admire them for that.

[Greenslade]

Yes thats so true, so really there's no use in the the question in the first place, its meaningless.

For you perhaps, psychoslice, but for some - myself and Lynn for instance - questions are something that keeps us going. Getting the answers sometimes feels like the end of the Journey.

Hello
There is always that one upmanship. Even in the very plants that are on the Earth. They too fight for that ray of Sun. Its how things seem to work.
When it comes to humans we are a BLIP in the time of the Earth. We have not been aroud long.....really.
When one looks to religion it might well be just that we have had that NEED for self expression, that need to be different to stand out some.
Is there such a thing as a question that is "meaningless" I personally feel not as it is in us asking questions that we learn is it not ? Do we not from a very early age start with the "WHY" in life. We too from a very early age learn I feel to be somewhat selfish WE have "OUR" belongings and we are very possessive at times on them. That could be at times be see selfish if one does not share.
If one chooses a path of non belief one is still a very Spiritual person as one still seeks to understand in something that fits to them.
Lynn:hug3:

Perhaps as Spiritual or religious people we shouldn't need one-upmanship? Does that plant believe there is a God. Heaven or whatever else is 'up there'? If us humans do, then why do we need to feel we are better than anyone else? Surely we should believe that we're all going to get there wherever 'there' is - unless we believe in Hell?

Perhaps that selfishness is a part of discovering 'I AM'? For me, it's about looking at my own perspective of the Universe because I can't see though anyone else's eyes after all. And does belief colour what IS? Perhaps if we believe something what we are actually doing is corrupting it slightly and not seeing what it actually IS?

I really feel this whole thread topic borders on the ridiculous if not insulting. Atheists look at the big picture and see how exclusive dogmatic religionism contributes to religious wars, strife, separatism etc. and how human resources and time are wasted on this instead of the betterment of humanity and wish to correct this error.

Feeding the needy is nice of course, but atheists wish to correct the cause instead of merely treating the symptoms. Atheism is highly spiritual when you get to its core. They want to see a world that is free of religious strife that works together for the betterment of all.

I still feel its a religion of sorts and that they have their "extremists" so to speak that ridicule religionists, but I nevertheless see their movement as much more spiritually evolved than any religion and admire them for that.

I agree with you there, SeaZen, but then will Atheism follow the same pattern as other religions in this respect? Religion is supposed to be against wars but it's caused more than anything else in history. While Atheist intentions might be good originally, what will happen perhaps sometime in the future when it's a fully-blown religion? Will it be another reason for separation and wars? That will only depend on where the people that believe in it take it.

Personally, I feel there's something that's been missed here - something very important. Christianity teaches 'God Without' - as in the stereotype of the old man with a beard sitting in Heaven as many of the images depict. Jesus' teaching was very different - it would be considering he was a Nazorean Essene and not a Christian. Jesus - as a Nazorean Essene - taught 'God Within'. God Within means we have God inside of us and he's not 'out there somewhere' and unreachable. If God is inside all of us, perhaps Atheists are walking a Path to God just the same. Perhaps instead of looking for God 'out there' they're looking for him 'in here' - inside themselves. From what I can gather from Jesus' words, what he meant was do as I do, follow my example and you'll get there. I'm not saying he didn't believe in God, I'm just saying that he found God within himself.

I'm an Atheist but I don't align myself with any Atheist movement or see my Atheism as a religion. I don't believe you have to be a Christian in order to have Christian values and 'do the right thing' by my neighbour. And - in a beautifully ironic twist - I can see where Atheists are doing God's work.

[supernova]

Atheism or theism we are just misled or sided with something in our journey to the unknown.

Whether you are a theist or atheist but your position is just like a traveller who is looking for a road map to his destiny

[Greenslade]

Atheism or theism we are just misled or sided with something in our journey to the unknown.

Whether you are a theist or atheist but your position is just like a traveller who is looking for a road map to his destiny

Amen to that.

[supernova]

I myself have been torn between these two ideas and at times I side with theists and sometimes with the atheists. My position however is the same. I am always in search of truth. The truth of my being here. The ways are different but the truth I want to reach is the same.

[Greenslade]

I myself have been torn between these two ideas and at times I side with theists and sometimes with the atheists. My position however is the same. I am always in search of truth. The truth of my being here. The ways are different but the truth I want to reach is the same.

We're all going to the same place, supernova. Sometimes we feel as though we walk alone, sometimes we see the footprints of others alongside ours. If instead of making differences we Honour each other's Paths, what we'll see is a mass of footprints all together and heading in the same direction.

[supernova]

We're all going to the same place, supernova. Sometimes we feel as though we walk alone, sometimes we see the footprints of others alongside ours. If instead of making differences we Honour each other's Paths, what we'll see is a mass of footprints all together and heading in the same direction.

This is truer than any truth I have come across in life

[Kapitan_Prien]

Greenslade: Personally, I feel there's something that's been missed here - something very important. Christianity teaches 'God Without' - as in the stereotype of the old man with a beard sitting in Heaven as many of the images depict. Jesus' teaching was very different - it would be considering he was a Nazorean Essene and not a Christian. Jesus - as a Nazorean Essene - taught 'God Within'. God Within means we have God inside of us and he's not 'out there somewhere' and unreachable. If God is inside all of us, perhaps Atheists are walking a Path to God just the same. Perhaps instead of looking for God 'out there' they're looking for him 'in here' - inside themselves. From what I can gather from Jesus' words, what he meant was do as I do, follow my example and you'll get there. I'm not saying he didn't believe in God, I'm just saying that he found God within himself.

I was thinking about that as well.

Regarding the video - it does make you wonder doesn't it? And in a sense it is proof that one doesn't need to believe in a god/gods/goddesses to be moral.

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty Gods, or no God." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782

"I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I have ever judged of the religion of others by their lives...For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Margaret Bayard Smith, August 6, 1816

"Government has no Right to hurt a hair of the head of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his practices." - John Adams, letter to John Quincy Adams, June 16, 1816

(quotes from 'The Essential Wisdom of the Founding Fathers')

[SeaZen]

I agree with you there, SeaZen, but then will Atheism follow the same pattern as other religions in this respect? Religion is supposed to be against wars but it's caused more than anything else in history. While Atheist intentions might be good originally, what will happen perhaps sometime in the future when it's a fully-blown religion? Will it be another reason for separation and wars? That will only depend on where the people that believe in it take it.


I see your point. I would hope not. They seem to think logically and use reason but then again, you never know. They could feel it is logical and reasonable to go to war. Regardless, atheists come across to me as a highly intelligent lot and I feel that the odds of this happening are quite lower for them than it is for God based religions.

Personally, I feel there's something that's been missed here - something very important. Christianity teaches 'God Without' - as in the stereotype of the old man with a beard sitting in Heaven as many of the images depict. Jesus' teaching was very different - it would be considering he was a Nazorean Essene and not a Christian. Jesus - as a Nazorean Essene - taught 'God Within'. God Within means we have God inside of us and he's not 'out there somewhere' and unreachable. If God is inside all of us, perhaps Atheists are walking a Path to God just the same. Perhaps instead of looking for God 'out there' they're looking for him 'in here' - inside themselves. From what I can gather from Jesus' words, what he meant was do as I do, follow my example and you'll get there. I'm not saying he didn't believe in God, I'm just saying that he found God within himself.

Very good point GS! Atheists definitely look within but where do they look? Their mind and ego?

I'm an Atheist but I don't align myself with any Atheist movement or see my Atheism as a religion. I don't believe you have to be a Christian in order to have Christian values and 'do the right thing' by my neighbour. And - in a beautifully ironic twist - I can see where Atheists are doing God's work.

Exactly! Religionists do not have a monopoly on doing well unto others. You seem quite enlightened. Just curious, what makes you wanna hang out on a spiritual forum instead of an atheist one? Is there some kind of knowledge you wish gain or are you here to merely socialize and debate?

[Greenslade]

I see your point. I would hope not. They seem to think logically and use reason but then again, you never know. They could feel it is logical and reasonable to go to war. Regardless, atheists come across to me as a highly intelligent lot and I feel that the odds of this happening are quite lower for them than it is for God based religions.

I would tend to agree with you, SeaZen, the chances would be pretty much on the floor. But rather than a unified religion it's another one to separate people, but then perhaps that's not a bad thing either. I believe diversity of religions will only make this a better place like diversity of individual beliefs.


Very good point GS! Atheists definitely look within but where do they look? Their mind and ego?


To me it doesn't matter one jot. When I drink a cold beer it doesn't matter how it gets there as long as it hits the spot. No point in thinking about those electrons and stuff flying about the noggin and back and forth between arm muscles. We have those things for a reason - mind and ego - so we shouldn't discount them completely. If we are Spirit on a human Journey and we ignore them, is that like looking out of the window while the teacher is talking? Perhaps feelings will play a part as well as gut instinct, being free from at least some of the doctrines and dogma until they invent their own.


Exactly! Religionists do not have a monopoly on doing well unto others. You seem quite enlightened. Just curious, what makes you wanna hang out on a spiritual forum instead of an atheist one? Is there some kind of knowledge you wish gain or are you here to merely socialize and debate?

Hmm not sure about the enlightened bit. For me it's the freedom of thought, I don't have to think a particular way. From what I've seen of religion it's like climbing into a box and nailing the lid shut. I value my individuality too much for that. I believe that Spirituality isn't just in ourselves and the words of the gurus (that I don't listen to anyway) but also in the people that begin posts with "you're going to think this is a dumb question but..." Knowledge isn't what it's about for me, I much prefer the questions and the seeking. Answers feel too much like the destination and Aragorn from Lord of the Rings didn't do too badly when he was roaming. Each to their own, we're all getting there in our own way, and I believe mine - and everyone else's - Path is as good as another.

[psychoslice]

Hi Greenslade, yes you are right but also there maybe those who need to move on from such question, I am just offering them what I have found out myself, if its not for you then its not for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoslice
Yes thats so true, so really there's no use in the the question in the first place, its meaningless.

For you perhaps, psychoslice, but for some - myself and Lynn for instance - questions are something that keeps us going. Getting the answers sometimes feels like the end of the Journey.

[Greenslade]

I was thinking about that as well.
Regarding the video - it does make you wonder doesn't it? And in a sense it is proof that one doesn't need to believe in a god/gods/goddesses to be moral.

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty Gods, or no God." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782

"I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I have ever judged of the religion of others by their lives...For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Margaret Bayard Smith, August 6, 1816

"Government has no Right to hurt a hair of the head of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his practices." - John Adams, letter to John Quincy Adams, June 16, 1816

(quotes from 'The Essential Wisdom of the Founding Fathers')

Christian is as Christian does, Spiritual is as Spiritual does - same with anything, Kapitan. It's all inside of us after all, if we care to look. Many people won't believe it until they externalise it, and if that works for them then good luck to them.

Hi Greenslade, yes you are right but also there maybe those who need to move on from such question, I am just offering them what I have found out myself, if its not for you then its not for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoslice
Yes thats so true, so really there's no use in the the question in the first place, its meaningless.

For you perhaps, psychoslice, but for some - myself and Lynn for instance - questions are something that keeps us going. Getting the answers sometimes feels like the end of the Journey.

Always the choice, psychoslice. And the road goes ever on :-)

[SeaZen]

Hmm not sure about the enlightened bit..

When I said enlightened, I didn't mean in the spiritual, supernatural sense but in the literal sense. Your views, path and perceptions seem very light and positive. Im glad you are participating on this forum. An atheistic point of view adds a much needed spice and variety here! :smile:

[Rumar]

It is the freedom to choose how one believes in, we can not take that away no matter how "concerned" people are of them. Let them choose, don't just start worrying that they believe in the "wrong" belief. This eventually leads to judging them and I do believe that's supposed to be the Christian/Catholic/Jewish God to do, not you.

[Lynn]

Hello


That is what makes SF the wonderful place it be. We are all so different in what we may beleive in but we are all as ONE here in that common goal to learn and grow.

We can be very rooted in our personal faiths and what calls to us but still have in us that need or desire to know some of what is out there.

Lynn

[Greenslade]

When I said enlightened, I didn't mean in the spiritual, supernatural sense but in the literal sense. Your views, path and perceptions seem very light and positive. Im glad you are participating on this forum. An atheistic point of view adds a much needed spice and variety here! :smile:

Damn, does that mean I'll have to wait another week for my guruship? :-) Maybe Santa's got one in his sack. It's one of the better forums, there's very little bi**hing although it could use a shotgun icon. I dare say there are those that bite their lips sometimes, but then that's all a part of the fun of the fair. If only that was reflected in the wider society, but then each to their own. The forum is what Life should be about - all the colours of the different views, beliefs, perspectives, etc.


Hello


That is what makes SF the wonderful place it be. We are all so different in what we may beleive in but we are all as ONE here in that common goal to learn and grow.

We can be very rooted in our personal faiths and what calls to us but still have in us that need or desire to know some of what is out there.

Lynn
If our beliefs can't stand criticism or challenge, are they really so rooted Lynn? Sometimes I see people whose beliefs are so shaky that..... That's another tale for another forum. What we say in these forums is a reflection of what we have inside, and I believe if some people think about that then they'd think twice about what they post.

[Lynn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn

Hello


That is what makes SF the wonderful place it be. We are all so different in what we may believe in but we are all as ONE here in that common goal to learn and grow.

We can be very rooted in our personal faiths and what calls to us but still have in us that need or desire to know some of what is out there.

Lynn
{QUOTE GREENSLADE }
If our beliefs can't stand criticism or challenge, are they really so rooted Lynn? Sometimes I see people whose beliefs are so shaky that..... That's another tale for another forum. What we say in these forums is a reflection of what we have inside, and I believe if some people think about that then they'd think twice about what they post.
__________________



　
Hello Greenslade


I do feel that we can have very rooted faiths YES and still have that desire to know more. NOT to take us off our path of what fits to us but to learn what others feel fits to them and why it fits to them.

I am very rooted in that I do not go with God, but I am open minded enough to embrace that what I call “ Universal Light” be God to some. I still have in me the desire to learn on God, and to hear from other’s on their paths on what fits to them. Last night on TV there was a show on exploring the path to the “English Language” Bible. Now being rooted in God not fitting to me some would say such a show would hold no learning’s to me, well it did . I learned something new and I found a copy of one of the books talked on there. Its very interesting.

I find criticism so negative a thing. I do not even find there is creative levels of it. Its too easy to put forth a judgment and GO ok said it done and one moves on. What is learned there NOTHING. To challenge to me is to open to debate. That I find so ponderous at times. That back and forth. That exploration that so many a times when kept friendly has lead me to a path of wonderful friendships with someone SO opposite to me. Where one has found that place of desire to know what is out there.

We I so feel are truly all ONE. We are all man we are all strands of DNA.
I do feel and I have found for the most part what one puts out here in a thread is a reflection on whom they are. I have seen many over the year’s evolve and grow. They are the same person they were just that they have move confidence in self at times. Better self image.

Yes there are one’s that might well think twice about what they put here, its hard at times to put SELF out there. If one is different or see’s self as so different they might not be ready for other’s to see that. BUT they are on SF for a reason. Something bring ye here and something keeps one here. At times it just takes “seeing” that someone has had the same experience as ye have to open that door. Other times just a kind work back does wonders.

We can all I guess put on an “ act” in what we put here. I fail to see what one would gain there, really we are on a journey to find our true self are we not ?
　


Lynn

[Greenslade]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn

Hello


That is what makes SF the wonderful place it be. We are all so different in what we may believe in but we are all as ONE here in that common goal to learn and grow.
[/SIZE]

Amen to that Lynn. That's the way it should be all over, people being able to come together to discuss what they believe in and everyone respecting everyone else. There are hard-line (not all) Muslims that want to push their faith onto everyone else. Being honest, I'd quite happily ship them out to somewhere cold and let them get on with it. Doing what you believe in is one thing, forcing it on other people is not acceptable in my book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn

We can be very rooted in our personal faiths and what calls to us but still have in us that need or desire to know some of what is out there.

Always the Journey, but then it's all a part of the fun of the fair.

Being honest, I don't hold to any particular belief system. I have things in my head that have been explained by talking to other people, and I think that is where I get most of mine from - if anywhere. Not having any system in particular is very freeing I find, it means I don't have to tie myself with any some particular set of beliefs. That opens up a whole new world for me.

Criticism to me is rather childish. It's easy to criticise anyone's beliefs, that doesn't take massive amounts of genius. What does take a little something extra is being able to meet people in that no-man's land where beliefs don't mesh as we would like them to. By all means challenge, challenge is a good thing for both parties in several ways but I also believe it's as bad to take offence as it is to give it. At the core of anyone's beliefs is the at of believing, everything else is a mask for that belief. We don't do it intentionally sometimes, but it happens. It's part and parcel of being human where - try as we might or analyse it to the nth degree - we don't see the essence of it. When you boil away the flesh of belief and get to the bones, few beliefs are so far apart really.

If I may say, Lynn, I find this post of yours very close to what I would have said. Do I feel that Free Spirit in you perchance?

[Sira]

Greenslade wrote: " There are hard-line (not all) Muslims that want to push their faith onto everyone else. Being honest, I'd quite happily ship them out to somewhere cold and let them get on with it."

There are also hard-line Christians that want to push their faith onto everyone else. One of my best friends is a Muslim and he is one of the few people who'd walk through fire for me. I regularly do energy healing on his back and he is always so grateful and appreciative.
There are many kinds of Muslims, as there are Christians. If you take 10 minutes to become acquainted with a Muslim branch called Sufi, I guarantee that you will value those ten minutes and don't think that you wasted one single second.
:icon_flower:

[Greenslade]

Greenslade wrote: " There are hard-line (not all) Muslims that want to push their faith onto everyone else. Being honest, I'd quite happily ship them out to somewhere cold and let them get on with it."

There are also hard-line Christians that want to push their faith onto everyone else. One of my best friends is a Muslim and he is one of the few people who'd walk through fire for me. I regularly do energy healing on his back and he is always so grateful and appreciative.
There are many kinds of Muslims, as there are Christians. If you take 10 minutes to become acquainted with a Muslim branch called Sufi, I guarantee that you will value those ten minutes and don't think that you wasted one single second.
:icon_flower:

I did some work with the Muslim community a few years back when I was living in Coventry. Being honest, they were lovely people and even though they were Muslim they gave me a Christmas card that year. Not one of them had any problems with Christianity, and some of them enjoyed Christmas for the time off and what it means to Christians. They visited Christian families for the hospitality (and the friendship of course) and those Christians welcomed them. As it happens, I have a Sufi friend in Lafayette, and she is the most gentle creature I know. She knows she waxes lyric sometimes to me about her faith, but then it's always good to see. In general I don't have a problem with people from any religion, but that particular group I singled out not because of their beliefs but because they use it to incite hatred and violence. By all means practice whatever religion you choose, but using it for hatred.............

[Lynn]

Amen to that Lynn. That's the way it should be all over, people being able to come together to discuss what they believe in and everyone respecting everyone else. There are hard-line (not all) Muslims that want to push their faith onto everyone else. Being honest, I'd quite happily ship them out to somewhere cold and let them get on with it. Doing what you believe in is one thing, forcing it on other people is not acceptable in my book.

I know that in all groups there are going to be some that one can not see eye to eye with. Some that do seem to push onto ye what they feel is right in a way that makes us want to repel from them or cast them from us. I have worked really hard to put that place from me. To not slam the door in the face of the one's that come door to door. Seeing that I am sending me kids a very rude message there. Now I take what they offer and I do read it, at times too I find in it something to discuss.

I had two come to the door, won't name a faith here, but I was so busy I was like OMG just go. I never said that, as I knew one of them I could not go to that place, happy too I did not. They stared in on their message. The one I know he fully knew I did not walk that path of God so though ok hmmmm. I told them I would be right back, I had to check something. I ran the book shelf in me room and pulled from it the book they were talking from, MINE full of dust that I cleared off, an well "Book marked ". I took that to the door and said while I would not follow ye's path of faith I am well read in it. I got the BIGGEST smiles. The next time they were around I was on me pourch and this very elderly man said to the group we do not have to go there, she is not of our faith but she gets our faith "God Bless her".

We can all find that place of understanding with ALL if we find that common groud.

Always the Journey, but then it's all a part of the fun of the fair.

Being honest, I don't hold to any particular belief system. I have things in my head that have been explained by talking to other people, and I think that is where I get most of mine from - if anywhere. Not having any system in particular is very freeing I find, it means I don't have to tie myself with any some particular set of beliefs. That opens up a whole new world for me.

Do I have a beleif system, I wonder on that one. I have many say that I do see God as I call it Universal Light I work with, I am surrounded by huge White Light I be told. Light of God to many. Its not a set beleif in any way but and open book that has some pages full of words and some that are waiting the words to be written. I am set in many of the ways I "see" things yes, but that is becasue I embrace they fit me. I think that might well be the hardest thing is knowing what fits to self.



If I may say, Lynn, I find this post of yours very close to what I would have said. Do I feel that Free Spirit in you perchance?



Not fully sure one what one means in "Free Spirit " I looked it up like a lot of English words there are layers of meaning.

" one who is not restraIned, as by conventonal or oblication; a noncomformist"

"a person who lives according to his or her own wishes and beleifs, unconstrained by society's conventions; noncomformist "

Sitting here thinking on what of this is me.....and "Living on the Edge" by Aeorsmith comes on. FITTING that. Maybe that is what I feel at times I am doing living on that edge.

I know well whom I am and I embrace fully that person, do I live according to me own beleifs and wishes. I don't know that anyone can truly do that. WE are indivuals yes in the body that house us but we too are all connected in that energy that holds us.

I might well not be conventional, I know at Church I as afftettionally refered to as " odd Lynn " as I had me own view at times to things but always with compassions and understandings.

I would not say non comformist....more I embrace tbat I might not well fit in with all circles but that is OK if give the chance I can.


Free Spirit maybe FREE in being Just me just Lynn


Too the kind words are nice....but I would have no feelings to isolate anyone.....would more find a path around them if there was no chance of any kindness or understading . Knowing full well we all have it in us to bring on harm.....


Lynn

[Sira]

Thank you, I understand your point of view. It seems that the small groups of extremists within any doctrine are able to paint the whole doctrine black, unless we keep our eyes open. I think that religions are like incubators; once you realize that there cannot be anyone between you and the divine within, religions have served their purpose. I still belong to the Evangelic Lutheran (protestant) church because I respect the work the church does for the young, the elderly and for the people facing demanding life situations.
I don't understand the concept of hate belonging to any religion... or judging... still they seem to be full of it. In Finland over 30000 people left the church when there was a tv debate some months ago and a member of the Christian Party condemned the gay people.
What they sow is what they harvest. <3

[Kapitan_Prien]

Sira: In Finland over 30000 people left the church when there was a tv debate some months ago and a member of the Christian Party condemned the gay people.

I love the Finns....(what can I say, I was one in a past life :D )

[Greenslade]

I know well whom I am and I embrace fully that person, do I live according to me own beleifs and wishes. I don't know that anyone can truly do that. WE are indivuals yes in the body that house us but we too are all connected in that energy that holds us.
I might well not be conventional, I know at Church I as afftettionally refered to as " odd Lynn " as I had me own view at times to things but always with compassions and understandings.
I would not say non comformist....more I embrace tbat I might not well fit in with all circles but that is OK if give the chance I can.
Free Spirit maybe FREE in being Just me just Lynn
Too the kind words are nice....but I would have no feelings to isolate anyone.....would more find a path around them if there was no chance of any kindness or understading . Knowing full well we all have it in us to bring on harm.....

'Nuff said? :-)

Thank you, I understand your point of view. It seems that the small groups of extremists within any doctrine are able to paint the whole doctrine black, unless we keep our eyes open. I think that religions are like incubators; once you realize that there cannot be anyone between you and the divine within, religions have served their purpose. I still belong to the Evangelic Lutheran (protestant) church because I respect the work the church does for the young, the elderly and for the people facing demanding life situations.
I don't understand the concept of hate belonging to any religion... or judging... still they seem to be full of it. In Finland over 30000 people left the church when there was a tv debate some months ago and a member of the Christian Party condemned the gay people.
What they sow is what they harvest. <3

Too easy to put people into boxes then judge them. One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch through - and we're talking people not apples. To some religion has a purpose and it does work for some - each to their own. Not for me though.

As for condemning gay people, if the member is a strict Christian then they're only doing what the Bible says they should - but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't agree with the member but I can understand where they're coming from.

[Sira]

As for condemning gay people, if the member is a strict Christian then they're only doing what the Bible says they should - but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't agree with the member but I can understand where they're coming from.
It always worries me that for example a book (in this case rewritten, modified, "cleaned") is able to dictate what people should accept and what not - feels like giving your power outside of yourself. I respect the Bible, I respect the Christians, but I do not respect prejudice.

[Kapitan_Prien]

Well said Sira - I feel the same way....like giving your power away...

[Greenslade]

It always worries me that for example a book (in this case rewritten, modified, "cleaned") is able to dictate what people should accept and what not - feels like giving your power outside of yourself. I respect the Bible, I respect the Christians, but I do not respect prejudice.

Amen to that, Sira. Most people who seek power seek it externally, they forget they have authentic empowerment and instead look for power-over. Although this isn't the Dark Ages any more, I often wonder how many of the attitudes have really changed.

[Kapitan_Prien]

Greenslade: Most people who seek power seek it externally, they forget they have authentic empowerment and instead look for power-over.

Well said!

[Greenslade]

Well said!

Thanks, Kapitan. Do you think, if we all sought authentic empowerment religion of every description would fade away?

[Neeti_Shri]

My guru once said that real atheism is when you have no Love to share,and indulge in hate and violence against the rest of creation. That made sense to me.Selfishness=Lovelessness,Love=selflessness.

[Kapitan_Prien]

I don't know Greenslade...it is a very good and interesting question to think about. Perhaps it would become less relevant in peoples' lives and eventually fade way - maybe in steps...a gradual 'disconnection' from it. I say that only because I'm looking at my own experiences with it all.

Personally, I think people would be happier and society far happier if everyone sought authentic empowerment....but that's just me having silly utopian thoughts ;)

[Greenslade]

My guru once said that real atheism is when you have no Love to share,and indulge in hate and violence against the rest of creation. That made sense to me.Selfishness=Lovelessness,Love=selflessness.
It happens with religious people too, and Atheists can be very loving.

I don't know Greenslade...it is a very good and interesting question to think about. Perhaps it would become less relevant in peoples' lives and eventually fade way - maybe in steps...a gradual 'disconnection' from it. I say that only because I'm looking at my own experiences with it all.

Personally, I think people would be happier and society far happier if everyone sought authentic empowerment....but that's just me having silly utopian thoughts ;)
I can resonate with that, Kapitan. I'm happy being non-religious of any shape or form really, it would seem to me as rather limiting. And aren't your own experiences the best there are? If you're busy having someone else's you might as well pack up and go home. And Utopia's not a bad place, but who cleans the toilets?:wink:

[Sira]

I did not read the whole thread yet, it was so long, but my opinion is that atheism in itself puts the emphasis on the individual power, and that, as I see it, should be the goal of any religion. Yet, it is not. Religions tend to take away the power from the individual.
Looking at it from the point of view of empowering the individual, atheists are ahead of religions... And the first person I ever tried Love energy healing with; she was an atheist. And it worked. :angel5:

[Greenslade]

I did not read the whole thread yet, it was so long, but my opinion is that atheism in itself puts the emphasis on the individual power, and that, as I see it, should be the goal of any religion. Yet, it is not. Religions tend to take away the power from the individual.
Looking at it from the point of view of empowering the individual, atheists are ahead of religions... And the first person I ever tried Love energy healing with; she was an atheist. And it worked. :angel5:

Being brutally honest Sira, I have no inclination towards Atheism as a religion in the least - same with any religion. While I say I'm an Atheist, all I mean there is that I have no beliefs in God whatsoever. Whether Atheism as a religion is empowering or not I don't know. But yes, I agree with you in that religions take away people's power, perhaps they see religion as a way to fill a gap in their Lives somehow and by doing that they give control over to someone else. Perhaps Atheists (as individuals and not a part of an organised religion) are more empowered because they can go internally to find what they need instead of externally - as in God/guru/religious leader.

[Sira]

No, atheism certainly is not a religion. It is more like spiritual anarchism, and I respect it for its freedom of thought.

[Greenslade]

No, atheism certainly is not a religion. It is more like spiritual anarchism, and I respect it for its freedom of thought.

Spiritual anarchism? I was going to be very flippant with this one but without disrespect to your beliefs. But then, closed minds is not the sole domain of religion, you can see so many closed minds in Spirituality.

[psychoslice]

Myself I have found that most people who don't believe in a god are more genuine, where those who do seem to be trying to act lovingly because they think that they have to.

[Greenslade]

Myself I have found that most people who don't believe in a god are more genuine, where those who do seem to be trying to act lovingly because they think that they have to.

Maybe there's something in exchanging "Thou shalt" for "I Am".

[psychoslice]

Maybe there's something in exchanging "Thou shalt" for "I Am".
Have no idea what your talking about ?.

[Lightspirit]

I finally put something into the original post so no one else gets roped into this thread where its all been said before a hundred times, and has to get repeated again.

[Greenslade]

After 181 replies we sorted it out peacefully

When that live nuke lands on your lap don't worry, it's really full of peace :-)

[Greenslade]

Have no idea what your talking about ?.

"Thou shalt", as in the ten commandments or as if you're being nice to ensure a place in your 'version' of heaven. It always seems like putting on another layer of mask.

[Kapitan_Prien]

Greenslade: I can resonate with that, Kapitan. I'm happy being non-religious of any shape or form really, it would seem to me as rather limiting. And aren't your own experiences the best there are? If you're busy having someone else's you might as well pack up and go home. And Utopia's not a bad place, but who cleans the toilets?:wink:

Exactly! I don't care to have someone else's - I like being me through and through. People may not agree with me on things, but that's what makes the world go 'round as they say. I have my life and cherish my freedom of choice (while I still have it). Whether or not people like me - I don't care. I'm not here to be in some stupid popularity contest.

[Greenslade]

Exactly! I don't care to have someone else's - I like being me through and through. People may not agree with me on things, but that's what makes the world go 'round as they say. I have my life and cherish my freedom of choice (while I still have it). Whether or not people like me - I don't care. I'm not here to be in some stupid popularity contest.

Doesn't it feel better to drop at least some of the baggage?

[Kapitan_Prien]

Mmm yeah...it was like taking a spiritual laxative. I must have lost a good 95-98% of it.

[Gauss]

As I see it(short version) if you are an atheist you deny your own origin as a God in this cosmos. As a God you rule over many beings, and they all wait for your return.

Hence, since you deny your own origin your sin is great and your future is hence bleak if you do not change your mind in time.

Just my understanding at my level of wisdom.

[Greenslade]

As I see it(short version) if you are an atheist you deny your own origin as a God in this cosmos. As a God you rule over many beings, and they all wait for your return.

Hence, since you deny your own origin your sin is great and your future is hence bleak if you do not change your mind in time.

Just my understanding at my level of wisdom.

That might work for you Gauss, but it doesn't for me. Where is God returning to? Because I don't see this third dimensional space our consciousness chooses to be to be the pinnacle of existence. I don't believe God would return here, I think that we are the ones that are returning. Unless, of course, we're not Spirit on a human Journey after all. My origins are 'up there' and not 'down here', in which case I do not deny my own origins - I just don't subscribe to the Biblical notions of God.

We are the ones we have been waiting for, and the sooner we realise that.......

[Kapitan_Prien]

Siddha Buddha: Honest dialog never happens when fear is the reason for change.

Yep - I agree with you on that!

[Lynn]

Hello


I come to here and read that and feel I will bring us back to TREAD ONE and we will come back to focus on what as first asked.





Is Atheism just an excuse to be selfish?

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I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god
It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.
This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?


With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.
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181 replies we sorted it out peacefully
This question originally was nothing more than a passing thought,it was more a passing question one day I didn't expect it to go on for ages like it did. Fresh in my mind from talking to an atheist taxi driver that day He didn't impress me with his concern for others and was not as much as some other people, he seemed a bit dismissive of his responsibility to other people. I wondered if there was a connection to his beliefs and his attitude. Then I got the idea to look up charities to see if there was any. Thats why that question was worded like that. So I asked the atheists and they showed me places where they do do charity and that they have good hearts many of them. I know lots of atheists that are nice people anyway that live near me. they dont mind my beliefs either.
Dont stress over this thread it's all been said before in it. I finally put this in so no one else worries about it.



So......here we be with a "Fresh Page"


Lynn

[Greenslade]

Atheism can be seen as an excuse to be selfish because people can be selfish. Any religion can be used as an excuse to be anything because people are the way they are. It's not the religion that's the problem here but what people do with it, and people are people the world (and religion) over. People are the way they are, and if they use it as an excuse for anything, well that shows show and what they are.

[Narasimhan]

Atheism is nothing but glorifying the existence, just like we need zero to pinpoint the emptiness
I was thinking today about atheism and the belief you are your own god

It got me wondering how many Atheist charities there must be.They must be hiding them well because I couldn't find any easy. However on the other hand christian charity Search showed up more than I was willing to count.

This made me wonder is this Atheism thing just an excuse to do nothing to help fellow people and justify it somehow?

With this question, I am sure there probably is some really nice atheist charity workers, but this is about the philosophy of Atheism and how its beliefs reflect on/ benefit their fellow man.
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************
After 181 replies we sorted it out peacefully

This question originally was nothing more than a passing thought,it was more a passing question one day I didn't expect it to go on for ages like it did. Fresh in my mind from talking to an atheist taxi driver that day He didn't impress me with his concern for others and was not as much as some other people, he seemed a bit dismissive of his responsibility to other people. I wondered if there was a connection to his beliefs and his attitude. Then I got the idea to look up charities to see if there was any. Thats why that question was worded like that. So I asked the atheists and they showed me places where they do do charity and that they have good hearts many of them. I know lots of atheists that are nice people anyway that live near me. they dont mind my beliefs either.

Dont stress over this thread it's all been said before in it. I finally put this in so no one else worries about it.

[Greenslade]

Atheism is nothing but glorifying the existence, just like we need zero to pinpoint the emptiness

Doesn't most religions work that way?