Louise Hay you can heal your life.

[RainbowAngel]

Wasnt sure where to post this but i think this could be the best place. Has anybody read this? Wondering what your thoughts are. Do you believe that illnesses stem from phycological beliefs? Thought patterns? Stress? Rather than actually be ' catching.' I think it makes a lot of sense but even though i think that i still cant help getting a bit nervous about the latest bug sweeping the neighbourhood. I also think her list of ailments and causes is very intresting. Like lower back pain being linked to feeling finacially unsupported. The back represents support. I know somebody that suffers with this and yes there are large amounts of money stress for them. Coincidence? Whats your opinion love and light :)

[Miss Hepburn]

I think her list is accurate.
:smile:


(Way accurate...)

[Selbor13]

I think she is pretty spot on. I believe our thoughts/emotions/energy manifest themselves in a physical form and vice versa, they work in synergy.

[PatriciaJ]

I haven't read it but it sounds very interesting. What does she say about migraines?

[Kydilee]

I have heard this as long as I can remember.. that many "illnesses" are a physical manifestation of psychological ailments. I think it makes sense.

[Topaz]

Dis - ease .... as they say .

Louise Hay affirmations are the best . I bought her little blue book back in 1981 .

[RainbowAngel]

Patricia. Migranes/ headaches. Invalidating the self. Self-critism and fear. The affirmation is: I love and approve of myself, i see myself and what i do with eyes of love, i am safe. Yeah i think it makes sense. Whenever i get a ailment i read up on it on her list. And its normally spot on with previous thinking patterns. And i read up for other people too. I recommend reading the book :)

[RainbowAngel]

Migraines sorry.

[Free_Spirit1983]

Yeah our wounds always imprint on our energetic field, if we don't heal the energetic imprint it will then be passed down through our spiritual body, our mental/emotional body and finally our physical.

It works like russian dolls - if you heal the energetic imprint all the rest will be cleared up.. Like Einstein said you can't fix a problem on the same level it was created, which is why for example anti depressants (physical) can't treat depression (mental/emotional)..

Another thing to point out is that if we don't heal the imprint we will attract the same illnesses, scenarios, situations etc.. I.e If someone has an issue with abandonment from childhood they could well find themselves being quite needy or even possesive in relationships, pushing their partner away and eventually being "abandonned" again..

Clear the imprint, the rest will follow :) xx

[Louisa]

I also have read things like this (can't recall the book) and it seemed quite difficult to believe for me at first - until I began looking at my health issues and seeing that the things they attributed them to really seemed to fit me to a "t".

[PatriciaJ]

Patricia. Migranes/ headaches. Invalidating the self. Self-critism and fear. The affirmation is: I love and approve of myself, i see myself and what i do with eyes of love, i am safe. Yeah i think it makes sense. Whenever i get a ailment i read up on it on her list. And its normally spot on with previous thinking patterns. And i read up for other people too. I recommend reading the book :)

Thanks. That makes sense :smile:

[IsleWalker]

I also have read things like this (can't recall the book) and it seemed quite difficult to believe for me at first - until I began looking at my health issues and seeing that the things they attributed them to really seemed to fit me to a "t".
Exactly my experience, Louisa. In fact, it even applied to other people in my life. For instance, my dad was put through med school by his church congregation. He "really" felt he should be minister like his dad but medicine was the best he could do. As payback to the church, he became a medical missionary after med school. He wanted to go anywhere but Egypt, where his parents had already spent many years (and he was born there).

After less than a year he developed Bright's Disease (nephritis). It is just a kidney infection but at the time they didn't have antibiotics. He was sent back to the states and expected to die at 26.

The diagnosis in Louise Hay's book: Bright's Disease: "Feeling like a kid who can't do it right and is not good enough. Failure. Loss"

In addition to things in myself, this began to change my mind about this book.

It's not that we/it is blaming people for being sick. And it's not hypochondria--these illnesses are real. It's just a good tool to use to get some insights into the state of your own spiritual/emotional health.

Lora

[RainbowAngel]

A freind of mine currently has a very poorly throat. Swallowed Anger. Yeah this makes sense!!

[steph_simpson89]

I haven't read it but I definitely will, sounds so interesting.
I've gotten headaches constantly my whole life and doctors could never work out why.
Can't wait to look into it, thanks :)

[IsleWalker]

I haven't read it but I definitely will, sounds so interesting.
I've gotten headaches constantly my whole life and doctors could never work out why.
Can't wait to look into it, thanks :)

Steph--

Don't want to ruin the surprise, but this is a pretty simple book-dictionary. For "Headaches" it says: "Invalidating the self. Self-criticism. Fear. " Affirmation: "I love and approve of myself. I see myself and what I do with eyes of love. I am safe."

I have suffered from this too. :hug:

Lora

[Shazzysun]

I too believe that there is a huge truth in this. It has to do with energy fields and your inner thoughts has a big part to play in manifesting disease as well as curing disease.

[IsleWalker]

I too believe that there is a huge truth in this. It has to do with energy fields and your inner thoughts has a big part to play in manifesting disease as well as curing disease.

Shazzy--

I agree. I think people resist this idea because it feels like blame. Most of the time it is not intentional, but once pointed out, it can be seen. Only when accepted can the dis-ease be corrected.

To me, diseases that begin at birth or before, such as a child with a debilitating disease or deformity, may have more to do with the larger plan for that life. These things are impossible for anyone outside that life to understand and can seem thoroughly unfair. Those may be some of the strongest souls, IMO, or those committed to learning the most difficult lessons in physical lives.

Lora

[Belle]

Wasnt sure where to post this but i think this could be the best place. Has anybody read this? Wondering what your thoughts are. Do you believe that illnesses stem from phycological beliefs? Thought patterns? Stress? Rather than actually be ' catching.' I think it makes a lot of sense but even though i think that i still cant help getting a bit nervous about the latest bug sweeping the neighbourhood. I also think her list of ailments and causes is very intresting. Like lower back pain being linked to feeling finacially unsupported. The back represents support. I know somebody that suffers with this and yes there are large amounts of money stress for them. Coincidence? Whats your opinion love and light :)

I have lower back pain as I have slipped discs. If I am careful and sensible, then I don't have pain but if I am careless with my activities, then my discs bulge and press on my nerve hence the pain.

Nothing to do with money worries for me I don't think?

Happy to be proved wrong.

Would love to know about epilepsy tho which I developed aged #12 and there is no apparent reason. Like the majority of epileptics.

[IsleWalker]

I have lower back pain as I have slipped discs. If I am careful and sensible, then I don't have pain but if I am careless with my activities, then my discs bulge and press on my nerve hence the pain.

Nothing to do with money worries for me I don't think?

Happy to be proved wrong.

Would love to know about epilepsy tho which I developed aged #12 and there is no apparent reason. Like the majority of epileptics.

Belle-

You can take this with a grain of salt or no, but here's what the book says about epilepsy: "Sense of persecution. Rejection of life. A feeling of great struggle. Self-violence"

The Affirmation: I choose to see life as joyous and eternal. I am eternal and joyous and at peace.

The lower back thing--I thought I had read something else about that and there is an entire section that breaks down each vertebra--the Cervical, Thoracic and Lumbar.

For me, the 4-L made some sense in saying "Rejection of sexuality. Financial insecurity. Fear of career. Feeling powerless." --although I'm not exactly sure which vertebra hurts. For me it is intermittent and it does seem that I might feel the underlying issues more at some times than others.

Sometimes her analysis doesn't make sense, but the majority of the time after it rattles around in my brain a bit, it does.

[Belle]

Belle-

You can take this with a grain of salt or no, but here's what the book says about epilepsy: "Sense of persecution. Rejection of life. A feeling of great struggle. Self-violence"

The Affirmation: I choose to see life as joyous and eternal. I am eternal and joyous and at peace.

The lower back thing--I thought I had read something else about that and there is an entire section that breaks down each vertebra--the Cervical, Thoracic and Lumbar.

For me, the 4-L made some sense in saying "Rejection of sexuality. Financial insecurity. Fear of career. Feeling powerless." --although I'm not exactly sure which vertebra hurts. For me it is intermittent and it does seem that I might feel the underlying issues more at some times than others.

Sometimes her analysis doesn't make sense, but the majority of the time after it rattles around in my brain a bit, it does.

THanks. My post was rather more belligerent than I felt - I approach these things that I don't believe / understand with a curiousity. At least I try to.

I was 12 tho when I developed my epilepsy. An age when a lot of people are feeling insecure, powerless, persecuted. All manner of things with raging hormones. Ok, I was bullied and not protected by my mother so it may well fit. Would the affirmation cure the epilepsy - which whilst managed is really hard to manage at the mo? Do I feel insecure, powerless and persecuted ? To a degree but I'm confronting that rather than accepting that.

I would love to think that it was as simple as an affirmation but epilepsy is such an unknown, a complexity.

There are things that do make sense, but I would apply the "sometimes" rule to be honest. Sometimes cancers manifest themselves because x, y, and z and other times it is genetic. Same with heart conditions, blood pressures, and so on. Unless, such mindsets which lead to these things are hereditary?

All to be used in conjunction with modern medicine.

[12meadows]

My feeling is that the mind is an all powerful thing. Anything that you truly believe enough can be made to happen when it comes to your body. I have Louise's book-and a lot of it makes sense to me. When I can't sleep and I say to myself "I lovingly release the day and slip into peaceful sleep knowing that tomorrow will take care of itself " (affirmation from the book)
I am focusing my mind on fixing the issue. The same is true for aches and whatnot. I realize that epilepsy is a big nut to crack- but anything is possible. Even if its only a positive distraction- it really is worth the time. :)

[IsleWalker]

I would love to think that it was as simple as an affirmation but epilepsy is such an unknown, a complexity..

Belle--

I agree with you--no, I don't think a simple affirmation will cure this. And maybe it's because I don't have a lot of faith that way, but affirmations haven't been all that useful to me.

The only usefulness I think this book has is just in pointing out the spiritual problem areas. Working out how to deal with that information is as different as people. In my own experience, these things have taken years to resolve. But they were--and that's encouraging to me at least.

Lora

[Emmalevine]

There's something in it but it's way too simplistic to me. I have a long term illness and spent many years and money trying to get well but none of it worked. I have explored childhood, life events, all of it. I'm very open and for a very long time I completely trusted in the energy approach.

Now I take the stance that we can't always know what an illness is about. We can't always put it down to such and such psychological issue or quality of personality. Maybe illnesses are simply genetic faults that begin early or later in life, or maybe the illness has appeared as a lesson in acceptance or to grow from (or both).

Plenty of animals get sick, as do plants, I haven't heard anyone yet saying that it's related to the animal or plant's chakras or energy imbalances.

Sorry but I find this whole area highly frustrating on every level. I know of many people who have led happy lives and even despite their conditions are positive and bright. I also know personally of those who tried everything to get well from various illness and in some cases eventually died.

Not everything can be put down to one's own mind.

[IsleWalker]

There's something in it but it's way too simplistic to me. I have a long term illness and spent many years and money trying to get well but none of it worked. I have explored childhood, life events, all of it. I'm very open and for a very long time I completely trusted in the energy approach.

Now I take the stance that we can't always know what an illness is about. We can't always put it down to such and such psychological issue or quality of personality. Maybe illnesses are simply genetic faults that begin early or later in life, or maybe the illness has appeared as a lesson in acceptance or to grow from (or both).

Plenty of animals get sick, as do plants, I haven't heard anyone yet saying that it's related to the animal or plant's chakras or energy imbalances.

Sorry but I find this whole area highly frustrating on every level. I know of many people who have led happy lives and even despite their conditions are positive and bright. I also know personally of those who tried everything to get well from various illness and in some cases eventually died.

Not everything can be put down to one's own mind.\

Starbuck--

I understand what you're saying--the reluctance to accept that simplistic pronouncements like this can be useful.

I don't think it is "of the mind" though. The kind of recognition I'm talking about comes from a deeper place, like a spiritual recognition that this is an area you have struggled with maybe for many lives.

And, no, I don't think that can "solve" the problem either. I too had already delved (dove?) deeply into the reasons and implications of things I had.

But, yes, there are people who may have genetic things from birth. Yes, animals too get sick. That's because none of us in physical has totally figured out the "balance" part. If we had, we'd no longer need physical incarnations (unless, I guess, we just dug the sensations of being physical). Animals too can have balance problems, I think.

And I don't mean to discount your feelings, but this is the kind of resistance I was talking about. It comes from saying, "NO---I've suffered enough and I refuse to take the blame for this too!" But it's not really blame I'm talking about. It's recognition. And there is nothing magical if you do recognize that something in the book makes sense. It will still take a long time.

But IMO there is also something to question when we just can't accept that we created these lives. Yes, other people were in them, other people did mean, cruel or unforgivable things. But we chose these lives, the people in them. And then once here, we made each decision. That's the acceptance that brings some kind of relief, from my own experience.

Some things seem to be very centrally-based. I don't know for sure but I seem to have always had fear about being safe in physical form. I don't feel that way about my spiritual form. As a result, I have a life that pushed the physical stressors in all ways--from conditions, from things I did to myself, from things others did to me. All of them are things, apparently, I need to deal with.

You have a right to your feelings and I'm not discounting them. But think about that resistance in your gut to this whole idea --and where it might come from. I don't know, but it may be enlightening.

Lora

[Belle]

Sometimes, surrender is the way forwards. Surrender to the cards we have been dealt, surrender to what we may have chosen when we came into this world.

And that's different from resistance.

Sympathising with starbuck.

[Emmalevine]

\

Starbuck--

I understand what you're saying--the reluctance to accept that simplistic pronouncements like this can be useful.

I don't think it is "of the mind" though. The kind of recognition I'm talking about comes from a deeper place, like a spiritual recognition that this is an area you have struggled with maybe for many lives.

And, no, I don't think that can "solve" the problem either. I too had already delved (dove?) deeply into the reasons and implications of things I had.

But, yes, there are people who may have genetic things from birth. Yes, animals too get sick. That's because none of us in physical has totally figured out the "balance" part. If we had, we'd no longer need physical incarnations (unless, I guess, we just dug the sensations of being physical). Animals too can have balance problems, I think.

And I don't mean to discount your feelings, but this is the kind of resistance I was talking about. It comes from saying, "NO---I've suffered enough and I refuse to take the blame for this too!" But it's not really blame I'm talking about. It's recognition. And there is nothing magical if you do recognize that something in the book makes sense. It will still take a long time.

But IMO there is also something to question when we just can't accept that we created these lives. Yes, other people were in them, other people did mean, cruel or unforgivable things. But we chose these lives, the people in them. And then once here, we made each decision. That's the acceptance that brings some kind of relief, from my own experience.

Some things seem to be very centrally-based. I don't know for sure but I seem to have always had fear about being safe in physical form. I don't feel that way about my spiritual form. As a result, I have a life that pushed the physical stressors in all ways--from conditions, from things I did to myself, from things others did to me. All of them are things, apparently, I need to deal with.

You have a right to your feelings and I'm not discounting them. But think about that resistance in your gut to this whole idea --and where it might come from. I don't know, but it may be enlightening.

Lora

I'm not completely resistant to it. In fact I'm really open to the idea that I created my illness/life and have worked with this for years. I'm aware there is a lot of pain around the fact I tried a lot of things and didn't get well. That is why I feel strongly about this now. It is not because I have something to hide or I've blocked healing or anything like that - it is because my experiences have led me to a new understanding that sometimes things aren't as simple or as in control as I'd like to believe.

[Emmalevine]

Sometimes, surrender is the way forwards. Surrender to the cards we have been dealt, surrender to what we may have chosen when we came into this world.

And that's different from resistance.

Sympathising with starbuck.

Absolutely Belle and in fact I wrote a post on my blog about this very issue. I will always be open to getting better but there is something important about surrendering to not knowing the outcome and accepting that I've done my best at this time.

[IsleWalker]

it is because my experiences have led me to a new understanding that sometimes things aren't as simple or as in control as I'd like to believe.

Amen


Lora

[IsleWalker]

P.S. Starbuck--

Your word "surrendering" has kept coming back to me since yesterday.

I understand that you mean that in the sense of surrender to something you can't/don't know.

Maybe it's just me, but "surrender" to me implies a kind of defeat. I don't feel that way about the "dis-ease" that I've accepted I caused myself. It's made me feel empowered--that I (and others) have engineered this life, this creation to so ingeniously force me to deal with exactly those issues that I would avoid in any way possible.

Seen from that light it isn't something to surrender to, it is a recognition of your own knowledge of your soul and what will cause you growth.

I think you meant surrender in terms of not knowing what to....but IMO there is a positive, empowering aspect to allowing the seeing of what we ourselves put in our own paths.

Lora

[StephenK]

I was 12 tho when I developed my epilepsy. An age when a lot of people are feeling insecure, powerless, persecuted. All manner of things with raging hormones. Ok, I was bullied and not protected by my mother so it may well fit. Would the affirmation cure the epilepsy - which whilst managed is really hard to manage at the mo? Do I feel insecure, powerless and persecuted ? To a degree but I'm confronting that rather than accepting that.

I would love to think that it was as simple as an affirmation but epilepsy is such an unknown, a complexity.
Hi Belle :hug:

You may want to take a look at the Ketogenic dietary approach, if you haven't already. This is really big within the epilepsy treatment community for children, and it seems to be having a similar benefit for adults.

I did a quick search and found this link for Johns Hopkins, which is good to help establish this approaches credibility... but there's a lot out there on the web that explores how this works! I recently spent the better part of the day bouncing from youtube video to youtube on this subject, along with lots of web reading after...

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/neurology_neurosurgery/specialty_areas/epilepsy/adult/adult-epilepsy-diet-center/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.hopkinsmedicine.org%2525252525252Fneurology_ neurosurgery%2525252525252Fspecialty_areas%2525252 525252Fepilepsy%2525252525252Fadult%2525252525252F adult-epilepsy-diet-center%2525252525252F)

The emotional/belief aspect is very important of course, since stress and heavy negative belief-identification can weigh us down in numerous ways. But right alongside that is the dietary exposures... In much that I've read over the last couple of years, once folks are able to fine-tune their food intake, in such a way that directly effects the physical issues at hand, then amazing turn-arounds are often the result...

Give the ketogenic approach the once-over.... It looks to me to be uniquely promising for epilepsy.

[Emmalevine]

P.S. Starbuck--

Your word "surrendering" has kept coming back to me since yesterday.

I understand that you mean that in the sense of surrender to something you can't/don't know.

Maybe it's just me, but "surrender" to me implies a kind of defeat. I don't feel that way about the "dis-ease" that I've accepted I caused myself. It's made me feel empowered--that I (and others) have engineered this life, this creation to so ingeniously force me to deal with exactly those issues that I would avoid in any way possible.

Seen from that light it isn't something to surrender to, it is a recognition of your own knowledge of your soul and what will cause you growth.

I think you meant surrender in terms of not knowing what to....but IMO there is a positive, empowering aspect to allowing the seeing of what we ourselves put in our own paths.

Lora

No, surrender to me feels very positive. It's more empowering for me to accept where I am in life than continue to fight against it. In surrendering to where I am now, I am open to the flow. I can align myself with life rather than constantly battle my circumstances. Far from not seeing my situation, I see it all the more clearly now.

I think we are coming at this from different angles. I disagree with the theory that we always put things in our own paths, illness or otherwise. There is little proper evidence of this. Whether it's true or not, accepting and surrendering to the Divine will in my own situation feels the most empowering thing I can do for myself right now.

[IsleWalker]

I disagree with the theory that we always put things in our own paths, illness or otherwise. There is little proper evidence of this.
So, Starbuck, do you feel there are things put in our way at all? To whom do you attribute those things? Is it just, in your opinion, the price of living a physical life? Is it random? Does God put it in your path?

I've heard this perspective before but am not sure how/what is the understanding then. What constitutes "proper evidence"?

Lora

[Belle]

I have a foot in both camps with this.

I know, sometimes for myself, I bring things on for myself - mindsets can bring me a headache for example. Some smokers, for example, develop lung cancer from smoking. A negative disposition can make you more vulnerable to illnesses.

I'm being very deliberate with the use of the word "can". Because it is not always. Personally, I've enjoyed excellent health over the last 12 months despite it being one of the most grim periods of my life with most days of a certain glumness. And yet, I've stayed free from colds, and all sorts of general malaises which might accompany a negative mindset. I've also known some bright and positive people succumb to really nasty illnesses. There is often no rationale.

However, the surrender thing, it is not passive, it's a very active role to take. It's not weak, it's very powerful and strong.

ANd yes, my epilepsy I believe was gifted to me, perhaps I chose it as a life lesson and not just for myself but also for my mother - despite me having it for 30 years was only able to utter the word to me a month or so ago. And for my sister, as it gave her an ammunition for which to bully me - more life lessons. At best, these "things" are opportunities for a higher purpose (although I'm not sure what to be honest).

Don't get me wrong, I do struggle with such concepts but there are some occasions when to fight is not right, as you are fighting with your higher self, who may well have chosen such a life path.

[IsleWalker]

Belle--

In my mind, this causing of our own dis-ease doesn't necessarily apply to minor things--colds, etc., although I suppose one could argue that imbalances can reduce immune system, cause stress, etc. But living has these imbalances by definition, I think.

In my mind it is more about more serious illness. And I realize that it is a different case for those with inherited or lifelong diseases.

The "gifting" of the disease of epilepsy that you describe is the perspective I am talking about as being helpful. Any negative that can be turned/seen/experienced as a positive thing--can cause growth.

I've heard the idea that those who perpetrate unkindness on others are returning the favor--acting out the "bad guy" role in order to experience both sides. In this idea, those same people were the abused in another life and are returning the favor (of giving the experience to another so that they can understand).

The "proper evidence" that Starbuck says doesn't exist--exists in my own life. I've shared it before but my own imbalances caused me to be totally depleted and in bed without energy to get up for four years.

This was a life-long process of being more and more unbalanced in the things I believed (a constant fear of never having enough---energy, stamina). I think coming from a family with disease tendencies that seem to be genetic predispositions to mental problems--was a thing that I see as a deliberate "putting of things in my own way". And, not succumbing to that kind of mental imbalance, was also my choice. But it didn't mean that I kept my balance in all things.

So, my experience is direct, my own. I don't know what other kind of "proper evidence" there can be that this exists. And to those who say, you would have gotten this anyway, or you would have gotten better anyway--I say--It went on for 45 years, getting constantly worse. Even after I found (on my own) treatments that kept the symptoms at bay, the underlying creation of imbalance didn't change until I recognized that my beliefs were at the core of it. Only then did I begin to recover. It continues and now I feel I have just a few issues left to deal with, which are manifested in things that are literally unhealed.

So I find this much more positive than feeling that (a) life sucks and you suffer or (b) God won't give me more than I can handle or even (c) I accept the situation I am in and will allow it to be--or any other philosophy that puts others as the cause of my imbalance. It is at the heart of what I call claiming your own sovereignty--no one can do to you what you don't allow. (This is existential, not physical. Lots of physical things can happen to you, but how you choose to interpret them is totally your choice.)

Lora

P.S. I do accept that there are times where there is nothing you can "do" to change a situation and you must just allow it to be. But, IMO, those situations don't last long and eventually opportunities for taking positive steps will cross your path. If you sit there content with accepting your lot, I think you might miss those opportunities.

[Emmalevine]

My belief is that we can't know. Lora you're coming from a very personal experience (as am I) and I respect that. You found some degree of healing, which is wonderful. As you say, you can make links to the beliefs that caused your physical condition and as a result you have made changes to your life, changes that were in your control once you realised what was going on.

I'm inclined to agree with Belle about the 'can' factor. I believe that life is very complex and what is the case for one person is not the case for another. I spent many, many years looking at my thoughts, beliefs, mindset, energy imbalances,,,you name it. I ended up in hospital through yoga and positive thinking (I am severely exercise intolerant). It is so easy to say 'it's what you allow' but I don't believe we have control over everything in our lives. As I said before, some people work hard on themselves to try and heal and then die. Some get well. We can't know what the plan is for each person. I see personal will and Divine will as different. Acceptance, for me, is aligning with the Divine in me and the Divine in the Universe. I am not closed to healing...I stilll believe in it...but I have accepted where I am. That is not succoming to suffering in any form, it is living my life in the moment and accepting what I can't change AT THIS TIME.

I don't believe life is random but nor do I believe that in every case things are 'planned.' I find it hard to grasp the idea that someone who is attacked and raped on the street pre-planned it, for example. Going back to illness, there are so many factors...genetics, environment, stress...that will affect each person in a multitude of ways depending on their history, biology, personality, stress levels, family experiences and many more things. Our physical bodies are not designed to be perfect. We all die of age-related conditions, so why is it so difficult for some people to accept the notion that we get sick at other ages too? OKay, I am open and maybe we do on some level plan serious illness but, as Belle pointed out, maybe it's a lesson for ourselves or the people around us, or maybe it WAS created through some emotional imbalance. I think the danger is taking one perspective (such as positive thinking or Louise Hay's mind/body) too far and disregarding what other possibilities there are, because life is so complex that no one theory is always going to be right or applicable in every case.

I personally know people with conditions who have been left devastated by notions such as 'if you tried harder you'd be cured'. I say you can only do so much and then leave in the hands of the Divine. Life can bring painful circumstances on us and we can't always change them or know why. As you say Lora, we can interpret them in our own way and respond to them as we feel/need at the time, knowing that we always do our best in what circumstances we're dealing with.

[IsleWalker]

Starbuck--

I'd like to address several issues you brought up, one at a time, not necessarily in order.

Going back to illness, there are so many factors...genetics, environment, stress...that will affect each person in a multitude of ways depending on their history, biology, personality, stress levels, family experiences and many more things.

Yes, but are these not things that you might not have planned in your own life? The DNA of my family, tendencies to disease--I see as things that I could have known "before" this life and have inserted so as to bring out those tendencies. Family--I too believe we choose them. And whom would I choose, who would choose to be in my family? --Well, perhaps, people who have many of the same issues, or overlapping issues.

Stress levels--again, can be planned or part of the choice you make to accept.

notions such as 'if you tried harder you'd be cured'

This approach is not about doing anything, trying harder--it is about allowing some recognition of our own soul's needs and that imbalances in our bodies are reflections of those needs.

This is exactly what this approach does not say--that you are to blame for, or to blame for not trying "hard enough"!

This is where and why I think there is so much resistance. This is not a matter of "personal will" as you phrase it, but is allowing, at least the possibilities of "Divine will" in the circumstances of your life, and in allowing that idea, perhaps understanding the growth you are gaining.

Yes, I too spent my whole life in introspection, working through therapists, through reading, through trial and error. And, yes, it can be frustrating. It isn't a matter of "not trying hard enough" if you cannot overcome the disease or illness. I am just saying that by allowing the possibility of what it can teach you--that may be all you are to get from it. Yes, some will die and others will heal.

We can't know what the plan is for each person.

Exactly--I have never said I could. NO ONE can ever know the plan for another person's life. And we ourselves may only grasp a small part of our own "plan". But I still believe that allowing the possibility that we can cause our own illness --helps us to grasps some of the Divine purpose we have. It will be imperfect, but some is better than none.

And, no, I can't understand why someone is murdered or raped on the street. I can't know. I can't even conceive. But I also can't believe in chaos theory--that none of it makes sense. Or that it is in this never-never land of not random and not planned. What does that even mean? Are you then just a blade of grass in the wind? No purpose, no power--just there? I don't understand, from a practical standpoint of coping with life--how one can hold that position and survive.

Another point I didn't make about the heart attacks being related, as some spiritual level (that I can't know for someone else)--is that they can go to the hospital and have heart surgery or get a new heart, but the problem is not solved because it isn't recognized at a spiritual, Divine level. So I think it's important to recognize that "fixing" problems with health is not just a matter of getting the body patched together. Without change, it will recur.

I feel and can understand the frustration with this approach. I have felt it. You don't have to accept it. I just found that there was a place of understanding that gave me peace once I got over that hurdle.

Lora

[Emmalevine]

Thank you for explaining this Lora, I think I understand more when you're coming from now (or perhaps I've loosened my own perspective!).

I'm not against the idea of creating our own lives. I think what I'm reacting against is the idea that it's always within our power to heal. I've personally had this said to me just last week - and I find it highly frustrating considering the lengths I've gone to in order to try and find answers for myself. I'm incredibly motivated and had my faith shaken to the core. That's why I'm angry and sad.

I agree with you re heart attacks and that replacing a heart or other organ won't necessarily change the core issue. That is perhaps why some cancers re occur when the problematic body part has been removed, who knows.

I guess I've been made humble by my own experiences because I feel in my heart that there is a bigger picture, I'm not always in charge of my healing, the universe or Divine has the final say. Yet perhaps as you say there's something about having planned this experience...I'm not against that, sorry I said I was, as I said I was reacting more to the idea that if one created it, one can uncreate it, which obviously isn't always the case.

I understand you've found an approach that works for you and I'm pleased you've been able to move forward in your healing. I hope I will reach that place too.

[IsleWalker]

Starbuck--

I'm sorry to have added insult to injury with this discussion.

I can understand that that can be extremely hurtful, and that the idea, even if no one says it, can be hurtful.

I was thinking that I see this area just like I see dream interpretation.

There are some people who think dreams mean nothing, are just random neurons firing or the remnants of unsolved daily issues--and I think some are.

But, like dreams, there are some that seem to contain something important.

Like dreams, no one else can interpret what they mean to you or for you.

And like dreams, they can be a window into what Divine is trying to communicate, or what you are trying to communicate to you.

I just see illness as just another form of communication from our Higher Self/Divine/Source to us. Whether we pay attention is our call.

I am sure you have "done" all there is to do. I hope you do find peace about all this.

Lora

P.S. Yes, I now see all cancers as just results of imbalances, and imbalances can be balanced.