The Illusion?

[Mr Interesting]

I've been ruminating, pondering how we view the idea that life is an illusion and have been thinking along the lines that it isn't an illusion at all.

True enough at it's bottom it's all energy and an almost learned thing about what's concrete and what's not but I think between the concreteness and the energy thing we're somehow missing the point of the allusiveness of the illusion.

It's like the seen thing, the outlines of substance, are what we call illusion and in a sense they are but I think we forget how important the substance is and that this outline, which we can tend to underestimate is the dividing line in space between inner and outer somehow.

So it's not that life is an illusion but that the predominance of just seeing the dividing line is the illusion, or hints at the illusory nature, when... this is hard to explain, when the illusion is actually not realising the substantive nature of everything as being the realisation of space filled with energy... that so much of the energies are discounted because of the outlines that define them.

[Ivy]

I'm not quite sure what you're explaining.

But I resonate with the acceptance of illusion. There is beauty in its creation...and moreso in its illusion.

Without it there would be nothing...it is energy created into form.

If we stood on stage and created something before the audiences eyes...people would ahhh in enjoyment and amazement. But perhaps because people have believed the illusion to be real at some point, it is often scoffed at, rather than appreciated for what it is.

[Quagmire]

I think the idea that our reality is absolute like with linear time is the illusion. From my experience everything is actually quite fluid and changeable, all it takes is a change in perception and the reality changes with it. I love an experiement I saw in Quantum Physichs (at least that is what I think it was) where the atoms behaved as expected when observed and differently when not. To me that is quite interesting and says something about conscious reality.

[Mr Interesting]

I suppose this is actually about the nomenclature of spirituality being somewhat backwards to the needs of understanding as we use the word illusion based on our understanding of what the illusion is and what it is may not be what we think it is.

I've noticed this with people who read the Power of Now and their understanding of such is but a little ahead of what they understand now which means they interpret through what they have. And because I see it in others then I know it's also within myself and saw this when during the second reading of the book I got much deeper insights.

So when we use nomenclature like illusion do we all have different views of this simply because we've come to it's use by association and what we have understood? It's like the word comes first (ah!, that's what the bible says) as opposed to an understanding that seeks to find a word that fits.

It's like the use of the word illusion comes from those masters who know and are within something beyond concrete reality who see time and space as illusory but does it help or hinder us to view reality as an illusion, as a borrowed title, without having understood such at it's source?

[Ivy]

So when we use nomenclature like illusion do we all have different views of this simply because we've come to it's use by association and what we have understood? It's like the word comes first

Absolutely!! :smile:

It's like the use of the word illusion comes from those masters who know and are within something beyond concrete reality who see time and space as illusory but does it help or hinder us to view reality as an illusion, as a borrowed title, without having understood such at it's source?

I'm something of an adversary to the spiritual bookshelf...and this is why. Knowing the words, knowing the philosophies and all the knowledge does so much less than being able to go for a walk and learning to observe the world around you.

All the answers are there in the metaphors...and in our experience of them. Don't butterflies show us transformation? and seasons show us the circle of life? forest fires, or a falling tree, show us the life that grows out of destruction.

The same world that masters have lived in belongs to us all.

To tell someone what is there and leave them with their eyes still closed is a hinderence to everybody. To show someone how to see for themselves and how to trust what is in front of them, allows that inner knowing to grow.

[Quagmire]

You can say that it is futile to try and use a hammer if you cannot lift it. The question that remains is that if you keep trying to use it will you one day manage to lift it and maybe even one day master it? My reality keep changing. What time once were to me it surely is not anymore. It no longer is a measurement of an exact duration of a measured unit. It is very much ruled by your perception. A question is how far or more accurately where can one's pereption of it take it, take you?

[I AM]

The Illusion is that you think that there is something out there other than what you are.

[silent whisper]

Just because we wake up from the illusion/painbody/suffering/conditioning...and it shifts for us...doesnt mean the illusion disappears completely...and in seeing life for what it is....fully in you...you see all life fully....and then the seeing of there being an illusion simply drops away...and life just is.

[silent whisper]

Its a choice in waking up...do I remove myself from the world stuck in their own illusion and separate again...or do I rejoin life with new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one.

[Ivy]

Its a choice in waking up...do I remove myself from the world stuck in their own illusion and separate again...or do I rejoin life with new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one.

Choice is always based on perception...and in your words here, there is a very clear perception of good vs bad.

Bad = 'stuck in their own illusion'

Good = 'new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one.'

That perception holds all the seperation of their & mine and draws upon words which have a clear association in your use of them with positive and negative. All of these perceptions are illusions. When you take away the 'negative' connotation of illusion and the positive connotation of 'seeing fully'...then what is left is you.

[TeeHee]

So when we use nomenclature like illusion do we all have different views of this simply because we've come to it's use by association and what we have understood? It's like the word comes first (ah!, that's what the bible says) as opposed to an understanding that seeks to find a word that fits.

Absolutely!! :smile:



I'm something of an adversary to the spiritual bookshelf...and this is why. Knowing the words, knowing the philosophies and all the knowledge does so much less than being able to go for a walk and learning to observe the world around you.

All the answers are there in the metaphors...and in our experience of them. Don't butterflies show us transformation? and seasons show us the circle of life? forest fires, or a falling tree, show us the life that grows out of destruction.

The same world that masters have lived in belongs to us all.

To tell someone what is there and leave them with their eyes still closed is a hinderence to everybody. To show someone how to see for themselves and how to trust what is in front of them, allows that inner knowing to grow.

It's like the use of the word illusion comes from those masters who know and are within something beyond concrete reality who see time and space as illusory but does it help or hinder us to view reality as an illusion, as a borrowed title, without having understood such at it's source?

I agree with Meadows' last post and it turnt me here to Romans 12:2: "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

The World is an illusion. But I must first explain what the World is, and this is derived from my Christian Worldview. The World may be summed up as cultural and social ideologies. The World's "stories" are full of pride, luxury, vanity, extravagance in dress, and riotous living, prevail now, as they did then, and are as unworthy of a Christian's pursuit as they are injurious to the soul, and hateful in the sight of God.

The prince of the World is opposed to that which is Christ's. But once again, this is my Worldview, and it dictates that Christians should not conform to the maxims, habits, feelings, etc., of a wicked, luxurious, and idolatrous age, but should be conformed solely to the precepts and laws of the Gospel.

An example of the illusion as I sat and read what Meadows had to say. If you were in the forest, naked, nothing to eat, during the winter, you will die. That is reality. The trees and the forest - the weather and such are reality. What you are in "need" of is warmth, perhaps some clothes, a fire, some food, or shelter. That is reality.

The illusion comes into play when it begins a grand story of how one needs the finest clothes, the biggest house, the most extravagant food, the most flamboyant lifestyle that money can buy. That in my view is the World and its story that many have bought themselves or rather sold themselves out for.

But of course the illusion of the World extends outwards to a story of how there exists the World with no God, no accountability...no responsibility ect.

:smile:

[silent whisper]

Choice is always based on perception...and in your words here, there is a very clear perception of good vs bad.

Bad = 'stuck in their own illusion'

Good = 'new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one.'

That perception holds all the seperation of their & mine and draws upon words which have a clear association in your use of them with positive and negative. All of these perceptions are illusions. When you take away the 'negative' connotation of illusion and the positive connotation of 'seeing fully'...then what is left is you.

And in your perception you are choosing to use labels to determine seperation through your own eyes....and labels will always keep us locked into perceptions.

So yes your referencing your own illusions of course...

[silent whisper]

Bad = 'stuck in their own illusion'

Good = 'new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one.'

What if I view *stuck in their own illlusion as a simply the path that people walk...there is no bad...it just is..


what if I view 'new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one....as just living as one..

take away your good and bad and its just how you perceive...

take awary the positive and negative and it just is.

[Ivy]

Theres nothing personal in my perception SW - I'm simply discussing the words you use.

My point was that you use your perceptions to make your choices.

You originally wrote: "Its a choice in waking up...do I remove myself from the world stuck in their own illusion and separate again...or do I rejoin life with new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one."

So why do you choose between waking up or staying asleep...no good or bad...thats my perception right ;-). But I'm not talking about making that choice...I speak about choosing destruction (being at the bottom of the mountain) as much as being at the top.

[Mr Interesting]

Language is starting to show it's deficiencies.

The nature of illusion itself may be that we could never define the nature of it as we all seem to have differing views of illusion but we're all looking at the same thing... or at least, what we think is the same thing.

It may be that we can never see the same thing. maybe that vibrational tendency that is us will always see what it/we need, want or think or even not-think we see.

I remember back when digital music making first appeared and the stress was on sample rates. This means that a system of measuring on the vertical and horizontal was done in bits and if those bits weren't close enough together you couldn't get an adequate representation of a sound especially at higher frequencies.

But one thing I've come to trust more than anything is the story, the substance. That within even the scratchiest old recording if the story is good we will get rid of the scratches and fill in the bits. And with this the biggest TV with blu ray and all the top notch stuff will not cover an empty story.

It's almost as if the illusion doesn't matter, whether it's finely turned or grossly inadequate in terms of resolution that within all illusion is the story, the substance of a thing. That we as substance watch and encounter substance through the dividing line of illusion... but it doesn't really divide... it just moves around alot.

[LotusRise]

"If it's not Love, it's illusion" - Marianne Williamson

Period.

[Ivy]

It's almost as if the illusion doesn't matter, whether it's finely turned or grossly inadequate in terms of resolution that within all illusion is the story, the substance of a thing. That we as substance watch and encounter substance through the dividing line of illusion... but it doesn't really divide... it just moves around alot.

Perception of life is story...and stories are written with words of illusion. But that TV you talk about...the film...the book (whether it claims to be ficticion or non-fiction)...the song...the media...and all the rest - life is the most wonderfully imaginative piece of fiction. And human beings feel so many wonderful feelings from experiencing creative arts...that it is fabulous to view life as an amazing piece of fiction. It's only ever a contention, when people believe their illusion to be real...and life shows them otherwise.

[silent whisper]

Theres nothing personal in my perception SW - I'm simply discussing the words you use.

My point was that you use your perceptions to make your choices.

You originally wrote: "Its a choice in waking up...do I remove myself from the world stuck in their own illusion and separate again...or do I rejoin life with new eyes and heart and live fully with awarness of more than just myself in the greater picture of life as one."

So why do you choose between waking up or staying asleep...no good or bad...thats my perception right ;-). But I'm not talking about making that choice...I speak about choosing destruction (being at the bottom of the mountain) as much as being at the top.


And there is nothing personal in mine..you see>:hug3: Your perception of emotions could be working overtime in your response.

In my response it was about the choice at the top of the mountian waking up to the next level.......so while your still floating around the bottom in destructive perceptions of good, bad, destruction.....my mountain already has blown up...Im just busy flying...:tongue:

[silent whisper]

Once you move past perceptions in the realization of yourself and the world around you...you learn that everything just is....the journey of you becomes the journey of sharing YOU....from anywhere along the path you have walked...the mountain you climbed to find your wings, is the mountain you use to share those wings...:)

As you fly and take in the view of that mountian your vision becomes clear....anywhere, any angle, any space that mountain presents to you as you fly around......is your mountain one with your wings...:)

[Ivy]

SW, you misread time and again and try to project emotions that simply aren't there onto others.

I work with language, and pointed out that your use of language shows a perception of seperation. This is because you use stark comparatives. If you read back, you'll see that is was the language you used that I highlighted.

I've spent a long time on the internet seeing the bat and ball game of perception being used (its your perception...no its not it yours). I don't get involved because a) I have no desire to take responsibility for your journey - so if you believe you have no inner work to work on..thats not my problem. b) I'm not blind to my perceptions, I work on them and because I do so, I tend not to react to them when I'm sharing. Instead I write threads to discuss the aspects of my life I need assistance with. And c) I don't fear being at the top or the bottom (wholeness would normally include both lol) so I don't feel any need to get into this game of who's on top. It's immature from a spiritual perspective.

But it is irritating, because you have some great shares, but you always cop out with this your perception/my perception stuff. Lol, with the greatest respect, I just want to get through that so we can speak.

[silent whisper]

SW, you misread time and again and try to project emotions that simply aren't there onto others.

I work with language, and pointed out that your use of language shows a perception of seperation. This is because you use stark comparatives. If you read back, you'll see that is was the language you used that I highlighted.

I've spent a long time on the internet seeing the bat and ball game of perception being used (its your perception...no its not it yours). I don't get involved because a) I have no desire to take responsibility for your journey - so if you believe you have no inner work to work on..thats not my problem. b) I'm not blind to my perceptions, I work on them and because I do so, I tend not to react to them when I'm sharing. Instead I write threads to discuss the aspects of my life I need assistance with. And c) I don't fear being at the top or the bottom (wholeness would normally include both lol) so I don't feel any need to get into this game of who's on top. It's immature from a spiritual perspective.

But it is irritating, because you have some great shares, but you always cop out with this your perception/my perception stuff. Lol, with the greatest respect, I just want to get through that so we can speak.


I have no issues with you, but you have of me. Self reflection with regards to your language issue has been presented and I will do my best to accomodate your needs..of course if my share is not being directed at you directly, I am sure you will take into consideration it is not always about YOU>..so you can simpy move on pass me at any time your choose.

Hope you feel better clearing all that off your chest. Its just how you feel. You have been heard.

Honouring your feelings is always a great way to be. When they are felt fully you often become clear.

I feel clear.

I have no issues with you, I will emphasize that to show you what you present is just about yourself...


And as for misreading and all that other stuff....I feel clear....so anytime you might like a reading done I am most willing to share.

so tell me about this *I work with language space you mention* if you dont mind?

[Miss Hepburn]

Illusion? I knew all this was a dream when I was eight.
(Thanks to an altered state of mind, even then, probably labeled Cosmic Consc for a few minutes.)

Now, with Aldous Huxley, Einstein, quantum physics, yogis and many many many
Divine Visitations from the Holy Spirit opening the Doors of Perception...oh yeah,
We are slowed down Light.
Matter is an illusion held together with the glue of Love.
Know that glue, hear that thread that goes though everything, see that Light in the Third Eye...
that lighteth every man that cometh into the world...
Then there's no wondering or philosophizing any more.

BUT, is it real? Yes. Is it not real? Yes.
The Divine Paradox.
The sound of one hand clapping.
Can the limited infant mind of Man understand?
Well, not with logic and intellect...that's an old old old understanding. There's no question, no.
In stillness, beyond thought...then you're cookin'.
:love9:

[sound]

I feel that life is as real as it gets ... I resonate with the idea that if this conscious life experience is considered an illusion, then it is part of a greater reality, and its true nature is not fully grasped by the human mind ... the nature of reality ... it is truly mind-blowing the way life is all that it is ... and getting a glimpse of/learning a little more about its 'illusionary-like nature' does not negate its realness and validity and magnificence ... there is no sense of me being deceived ... I don't question life's integrity for one minute, although, from time to time, I can quite easily deceive my self lol ...

[Bluegreen]

The notion that all is illusion comes from the Buddha and was misunderstood by his disciples. I think that what the Buddha meant was that the illusion lies in the fact that everything changes, nothing remains the same for even an instant and once the brain registers what was seen, what was seen is no longer there. It is comparable to the stars and galaxies we see. We never stop to think that what we see is no longer what it is because light takes such a long time to get here.

Isn't everything recorded in the Akashic library? Then how can this universe be an illusion?

By the way, just read: "A true dream is the ability to translate 'what could be' into 'what is'.

[Miss Hepburn]

Hey, I know a way to put it...yes, it's all "real"...however, things are not what
they appear to be ... how could they?
I mean with these limited data receivers and all....now, add an Electron microscope, and an
X~ray machine and we can begin to see what doesn't get picked up by these senses...
Everything is way more than it looks.

[silent whisper]

In stillness, beyond thought...then you're cookin'

That deserved a bold highlight...:)

[silent whisper]

The notion that all is illusion comes from the Buddha and was misunderstood by his disciples. I think that what the Buddha meant was that the illusion lies in the fact that everything changes, nothing remains the same for even an instant and once the brain registers what was seen, what was seen is no longer there. It is comparable to the stars and galaxies we see. We never stop to think that what we see is no longer what it is because light takes such a long time to get here.

Isn't everything recorded in the Akashic library? Then how can this universe be an illusion?

By the way, just read: "A true dream is the ability to translate 'what could be' into 'what is'.


I really like this..it felt like the stars inside me did a little dance in time with it..:smile: .

[Ivy]

And as for misreading and all that other stuff....I feel clear....so anytime you might like a reading done I am most willing to share.

so tell me about this *I work with language space you mention* if you dont mind?

Changing your language to accommodate others won't change the place that language came from. I prefer your honest perceptions that you share. But as yet, you don't show the ability to listen to small corrections...it is in being corrected that you will hone your skills.

I've studied language and the creation of meaning...and I work in this area.

So when I'm getting into the topic of language and its meaning...it really is just that its my field...no emotional perceptions lol.

If I have an emotion, I tell you straight. Other than that your clarity is in your own imagination.

[lemex]

I've been ruminating, pondering how we view the idea that life is an illusion and have been thinking along the lines that it isn't an illusion at all.

True enough at it's bottom it's all energy and an almost learned thing about what's concrete and what's not but I think between the concreteness and the energy thing we're somehow missing the point of the allusiveness of the illusion.

It's like the seen thing, the outlines of substance, are what we call illusion and in a sense they are but I think we forget how important the substance is and that this outline, which we can tend to underestimate is the dividing line in space between inner and outer somehow.

So it's not that life is an illusion but that the predominance of just seeing the dividing line is the illusion, or hints at the illusory nature, when... this is hard to explain, when the illusion is actually not realising the substantive nature of everything as being the realisation of space filled with energy... that so much of the energies are discounted because of the outlines that define them.

Very nice and insightful, mirrors my thoughts on such things. :smile: I'd like to hear more as you examine the thought from time to time.

[Mr Interesting]

Hey Lemex, it kinda came to me when I put some thought into the ideas of masculine and feminine and came to a conclusion of sorts where they don't actually exist.

It came down to all space, in things and without things being feminine whilst masculine is the defined shape and only that shape. That seemed to go too far, in a sense because that means all that fills is feminine and only that which denotes difference is male which seems to have nothing to do with a balance of energies and seemed to be one of the logical trains of thought that leads to the insignificance of having such thoughts.

But it led to the idea that this paradigm of definition was of a masculine nature and that it leaves out the whole within and without and stresses only the definition. That seemed to resonate with the idea of illusion as a view of reality, not that reality itself was an illusion, but the way of seeing only by definition was illusory.

At the same time there is also what seems like a tendency to take spiritual ideas at face value as a system of, and this is where my ability to explain my ideas departs as I haven't the use of language to know the concepts I'm talking about,.. system of dogmatism's without encouragement to find the inner and outerness of the dogmatism's. That they remain the same over used definitions that within this use have become empty of significance.... maybe.

[skeptical]

Hey Lemex, it kinda came to me when I put some thought into the ideas of masculine and feminine and came to a conclusion of sorts where they don't actually exist.

It came down to all space, in things and without things being feminine whilst masculine is the defined shape and only that shape. That seemed to go too far, in a sense because that means all that fills is feminine and only that which denotes difference is male which seems to have nothing to do with a balance of energies and seemed to be one of the logical trains of thought that leads to the insignificance of having such thoughts.

But it led to the idea that this paradigm of definition was of a masculine nature and that it leaves out the whole within and without and stresses only the definition. That seemed to resonate with the idea of illusion as a view of reality, not that reality itself was an illusion, but the way of seeing only by definition was illusory.

At the same time there is also what seems like a tendency to take spiritual ideas at face value as a system of, and this is where my ability to explain my ideas departs as I haven't the use of language to know the concepts I'm talking about,.. system of dogmatism's without encouragement to find the inner and outerness of the dogmatism's. That they remain the same over used definitions that within this use have become empty of significance.... maybe.This. The language itself shapes what we see, the concepts of belief and ideas and that itself may be the illusion in a way. They only show parts of the whole, certain views and proclaim them whole.

Our very perceptions themselves do this too, through our conventional senses, so it all lends itself to the solidity of illusion. but is it really? Or is it all real? Do the terms have any meaning at all when used this way?

[silent whisper]

Changing your language to accommodate others won't change the place that language came from. I prefer your honest perceptions that you share. But as yet, you don't show the ability to listen to small corrections...it is in being corrected that you will hone your skills.

I've studied language and the creation of meaning...and I work in this area.

So when I'm getting into the topic of language and its meaning...it really is just that its my field...no emotional perceptions lol.

If I have an emotion, I tell you straight. Other than that your clarity is in your own imagination.


So my read was correct...thankyou for sharing.

[Ivy]

So my read was correct...thankyou for sharing.

Did you ever ask yourself why you felt the need to make that statement? There is a psycholgy behind having to say you are correct, when the other person isn't agreeing with you.

In one week, you saw in at least three different people that they were all bringing up emotions from their childhoods. In my experience it would be unusual to be seeing the same issues all around you and it have nothing in it for yourself. It's a gift to be able to look at others and see yourself.

In my belief, it's something that spirit gives to help us on our journeys. I don't expect you to open up and share your weaknesses here, on this thread. But I hope you will step back and take some time to look at why you said this last statement.

For me, it helps strngthen the compassion and love for people who've been scared to be vulnerable in the past. If there was nothing for me in watching your reactions, I wouldn't see them. But my reflections are in your vulnerabilities. The fears are something I've been through, faced and come out the other side.

If you can't understand what I'm saying, I will expand. But I won't play games with you x

[silent whisper]

Did you ever ask yourself why you felt the need to make that statement? There is a psycholgy behind having to say you are correct, when the other person isn't agreeing with you.

In one week, you saw in at least three different people that they were all bringing up emotions from their childhoods. In my experience it would be unusual to be seeing the same issues all around you and it have nothing in it for yourself. It's a gift to be able to look at others and see yourself.

In my belief, it's something that spirit gives to help us on our journeys. I don't expect you to open up and share your weaknesses here, on this thread. But I hope you will step back and take some time to look at why you said this last statement.

For me, it helps strngthen the compassion and love for people who've been scared to be vulnerable in the past. If there was nothing for me in watching your reactions, I wouldn't see them. But my reflections are in your vulnerabilities. The fears are something I've been through, faced and come out the other side.

If you can't understand what I'm saying, I will expand. But I won't play games with you x


No *need* ...just sharing...confirming my read out loud.


Yes its a gift to look within, listen, learn and see so much...you see the mirror your way of course.


So much information coming through from you..I guess I shared what I felt was important..the rest is probably more about you in all that language.

[Ivy]

Yes its a gift to look within, listen, learn and see so much...you see the mirror your way of course.


Yes ofcourse, and that's because what I see is my mirror...and what you see is yours.

So I appreciate what you share. But I don't want you trying to push your reading/reflection onto me. With the greatest love, you don't see in other peoples minds :hug3:

[silent whisper]

Yes ofcourse, and that's because what I see is my mirror...and what you see is yours.

So I appreciate what you share. But I don't want you trying to push your reading/reflection onto me. With the greatest love, you don't see in other peoples minds :hug3:


allowing yourself to be pushed is great learning in itself...

Beyond the mind is where I connect....and if you are not residing there..you will always use your mind to play games...with me.

Walking your talk...and walking your mind.....the view is quite different...

[Neville]

So my read was correct...thankyou for sharing.
And this is important to you ... Why ? No one , I imagine is playing games.

[Mr Interesting]

I've seen in other threads that some people kinda make the threads their own by kind of following each response with answers keeping it all together. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not really concerned about that and will willingly just go with whatever happens which could very well include me just talking 'bout my own stuff while all around the thread veers off into whatever direction arrives.

But within this thread I've kinda tried to see where Silent and Meadows are going, and even understand what they're doing, and I have no idea... it's like a whole new colour I can't even see... there's something going on but it just won't come into focus so who knows.

All I could know is that they're both taking the time to see it through and I respect that. That they're both willing to shed whatever light on things they feel is worth shedding.

Maybe it's even why the illusion is what it is. That the defined space of difference is where we throw our stuff at and some of it gets through and some of it bounces back... without the difference how could we get stuff bouncing back at us?

I like it... it's life. It may be an illusion but it's the only one we've got.

[silent whisper]

And this is important to you ... Why ? No one , I imagine is playing games.

Because in my interactions with meadows...I am learning to trust what I feel as correct to relate more deeply with meadows...

your back at a crucial time Neville for yourself....of course.

[silent whisper]

And this is important to you ... Why ? No one , I imagine is playing games.


Diving in at appropriate moments, is only about YOU.

[silent whisper]

I've seen in other threads that some people kinda make the threads their own by kind of following each response with answers keeping it all together. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not really concerned about that and will willingly just go with whatever happens which could very well include me just talking 'bout my own stuff while all around the thread veers off into whatever direction arrives.

But within this thread I've kinda tried to see where Silent and Meadows are going, and even understand what they're doing, and I have no idea... it's like a whole new colour I can't even see... there's something going on but it just won't come into focus so who knows.

All I could know is that they're both taking the time to see it through and I respect that. That they're both willing to shed whatever light on things they feel is worth shedding.

Maybe it's even why the illusion is what it is. That the defined space of difference is where we throw our stuff at and some of it gets through and some of it bounces back... without the difference how could we get stuff bouncing back at us?

I like it... it's life. It may be an illusion but it's the only one we've got.


Yes Mr I trusting fully in the process unfolding as I do...no harbouring of any pain or distrust against anyone including meadows...or neville for that matter now he enters into it for his own reasons of course..

Many are reaching their own personal empowerment here at sf...pushing and creating a healthy space for people to play safely with that space in them...is a space I have walked and know how important it is to have trusting souls to walk along in their own trust one with you...

[silent whisper]

Its is only our own personal pain that creates the illusion.....when all pain falls away...the illusion is just a story...the story is the sharing..the trust to trust it all....is paramount to *BECOMING*...

[Unborn_Unity]

I will try to add some tidbits.

Basically, Reality is changeless.

Hence anything that undergoes change is illusory, or as some people prefer to say "relatively real; relative reality". Hence life is an illusion.

But not just this earth life, any 'manyness' is illusory. The afterlife is also a lighter illusion.

The whole Creation is a figment of the imagination of the Creator. The Creator is like 'dreaming', it is the cosmic dreamer. The original thought is Pure orgasmic blissful infinite Love. From this Pure Love and the concatenation of Time and Space, Light manifested.

Then the atoms, and the universe came into manifestation.

Hence everything is just Light, this Light being Pure Infinite wrathing Love (its already beyond description here), and this Thought was the Thought from the Changeless One, Intelligent Infinity, the Cosmic Dreamer.


Relative reality -> Ultimate Reality
You are a human being -> You are a soul -> You are Limitless Light -> You are Pure Love -> You Are.

[Gem]

I've been ruminating, pondering how we view the idea that life is an illusion and have been thinking along the lines that it isn't an illusion at all.

True enough at it's bottom it's all energy and an almost learned thing about what's concrete and what's not but I think between the concreteness and the energy thing we're somehow missing the point of the allusiveness of the illusion.

It's like the seen thing, the outlines of substance, are what we call illusion and in a sense they are but I think we forget how important the substance is and that this outline, which we can tend to underestimate is the dividing line in space between inner and outer somehow.

So it's not that life is an illusion but that the predominance of just seeing the dividing line is the illusion, or hints at the illusory nature, when... this is hard to explain, when the illusion is actually not realising the substantive nature of everything as being the realisation of space filled with energy... that so much of the energies are discounted because of the outlines that define them.

Illusion merely means it occurs only in the mind, not in real life, and that distinction is actually more intricate than the spiritual cliches suggest, for example, if you close your eyes and feel your hand you notice that the sensation is constantly changing, so there is no particular way the hand feels, but it really does feel the way it does.

[Ivy]

I've seen in other threads that some people kinda make the threads their own by kind of following each response with answers keeping it all together. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not really concerned about that and will willingly just go with whatever happens which could very well include me just talking 'bout my own stuff while all around the thread veers off into whatever direction arrives.

But within this thread I've kinda tried to see where Silent and Meadows are going, and even understand what they're doing, and I have no idea... it's like a whole new colour I can't even see... there's something going on but it just won't come into focus so who knows.

All I could know is that they're both taking the time to see it through and I respect that. That they're both willing to shed whatever light on things they feel is worth shedding.

Maybe it's even why the illusion is what it is. That the defined space of difference is where we throw our stuff at and some of it gets through and some of it bounces back... without the difference how could we get stuff bouncing back at us?

I like it... it's life. It may be an illusion but it's the only one we've got.

Thankyou for sharing that Mr I.

[Ivy]

I don't tend to do readings unless someone has requested one...I feel it's unethical. But SW, you seemed to be pushing/encouraging me to join you for a moment.

So...your reading: your energy is spread wide like a vast cloud across an evening sky...and it has the strength of storm energy within it. You are indeed flying above mountain peaks. And on the ground you are able to see crowds of people and pick out the souls that appear empty...like shadows. From your point of view (in the sky) you can strike those souls with the power and illumination of a bolt of lightning striking them. that's where you are.

There is a very gentle and gradual change happening that will bring you to a different way of feeling your sight come through you in the future. It's not an increase or decrease of clarity, it's simply a change in how you recieve.

Strengthening your trust is part of that preperation. You are doing all the right things.

xx

Perceptions, thoughts, fears etc come from the mind...so reading others perceptions is reading the persons mind (hence my reference to mind reading).

[Nada]

I've been ruminating, pondering how we view the idea that life is an illusion and have been thinking along the lines that it isn't an illusion at all.

True enough at it's bottom it's all energy and an almost learned thing about what's concrete and what's not but I think between the concreteness and the energy thing we're somehow missing the point of the allusiveness of the illusion.

It's like the seen thing, the outlines of substance, are what we call illusion and in a sense they are but I think we forget how important the substance is and that this outline, which we can tend to underestimate is the dividing line in space between inner and outer somehow.

So it's not that life is an illusion but that the predominance of just seeing the dividing line is the illusion, or hints at the illusory nature, when... this is hard to explain, when the illusion is actually not realising the substantive nature of everything as being the realisation of space filled with energy... that so much of the energies are discounted because of the outlines that define them.

Life, especially spiritual aspects in the physical senses, is an illusion based on individual perceptions.

Like any theory without proof, it is an idea based on one's senses, emotions, knowledge, motivations, and capacities.

Spiritual pursuit is solving the riddles of the universe.
The illusionary perception of the life changes and evolves, as one keeps up with solving the riddles.

When one becomes more spiritually aware and open (as you are, Mr. I), one's illusion of life becomes more closer to the truth of this universe.

When this merging of one's illusion and the truth happens in varying moments, one perceives that one's illusion is not an illusion anymore.

You are experiencing that moment.

This is not an illusion. You are getting closer to the truth.

Congratulation.

[Mr Interesting]

Hey thanks Nada, it wasn't necessarily what I wanted to hear but now you've said it it resolves quite nicely.

Especially your line "as one keeps solving the riddles" simply because I so often see things as riddles... our own ways of seeing and being are often so completely individualistic that our ways of being within those riddles has to create it's own palette.

I was yesterday going for a little sleep, which wasn't happening so I just let my mind play with a certain answer on another thread and made it into a riddle instead of an obvious answer not worth going further with and as I was peeling away the layers and striking notes of clarity an earthquake rumbled beneath me and I felt I'd unearthed (hehe) something lovely an gotten a nice pat on the shoulder for doing so.

[skeptical]

I don't tend to do readings unless someone has requested one...I feel it's unethical. But SW, you seemed to be pushing/encouraging me to join you for a moment.

So...your reading: your energy is spread wide like a vast cloud across an evening sky...and it has the strength of storm energy within it. You are indeed flying above mountain peaks. And on the ground you are able to see crowds of people and pick out the souls that appear empty...like shadows. From your point of view (in the sky) you can strike those souls with the power and illumination of a bolt of lightning striking them. that's where you are.

There is a very gentle and gradual change happening that will bring you to a different way of feeling your sight come through you in the future. It's not an increase or decrease of clarity, it's simply a change in how you recieve.

Strengthening your trust is part of that preperation. You are doing all the right things.

xx

Perceptions, thoughts, fears etc come from the mind...so reading others perceptions is reading the persons mind (hence my reference to mind reading).

Knowing Silent Whisper as well as I do, your read is very good.

It's interesting you see a read that way. It actually comes from many sources working together; reading a mind directly is not needed. It includes patterns clearly evident in what was said and how, the feel of a person's emotions and underlying state (as an empath, I see that clearly without even focusing and I don't choose it, it's like seeing colors), feeling the energy on both this and spiritual level and using intuition...so many ways to read, and we use them all at once or some.... A read is simply noticing what is shown.

[silent whisper]

I don't tend to do readings unless someone has requested one...I feel it's unethical. But SW, you seemed to be pushing/encouraging me to join you for a moment.

So...your reading: your energy is spread wide like a vast cloud across an evening sky...and it has the strength of storm energy within it. You are indeed flying above mountain peaks. And on the ground you are able to see crowds of people and pick out the souls that appear empty...like shadows. From your point of view (in the sky) you can strike those souls with the power and illumination of a bolt of lightning striking them. that's where you are.

There is a very gentle and gradual change happening that will bring you to a different way of feeling your sight come through you in the future. It's not an increase or decrease of clarity, it's simply a change in how you recieve.

Strengthening your trust is part of that preperation. You are doing all the right things.

xx

Perceptions, thoughts, fears etc come from the mind...so reading others perceptions is reading the persons mind (hence my reference to mind reading).


Yes strengthening of trust...yes always getting deeper and stronger...I like this reading thankyou meadows..you read well!

A little shove never hurts anyone when its in the best interests of all as one....:wink:

[silent whisper]

Knowing Silent Whisper as well as I do, your read is very good.

It's interesting you see a read that way. It actually comes from many sources working together; reading a mind directly is not needed. It includes patterns clearly evident in what was said and how, the feel of a person's emotions and underlying state (as an empath, I see that clearly without even focusing and I don't choose it, it's like seeing colors), feeling the energy on both this and spiritual level and using intuition...so many ways to read, and we use them all at once or some.... A read is simply noticing what is shown.


I like you and your understandings skep.....and what you share is very important to how I read too...:hug3:

[Ivy]

Knowing Silent Whisper as well as I do, your read is very good.

It's interesting you see a read that way. It actually comes from many sources working together; reading a mind directly is not needed. It includes patterns clearly evident in what was said and how, the feel of a person's emotions and underlying state (as an empath, I see that clearly without even focusing and I don't choose it, it's like seeing colors), feeling the energy on both this and spiritual level and using intuition...so many ways to read, and we use them all at once or some.... A read is simply noticing what is shown.

The mind is an energy. I'm feel empathically...I feel emotion and attitudes towards life/events etc. I agree that some people put this emotional energy into the words they speak, the choices they make, the way they interact with people etc. But others will take on an aspect of character that feels correct for that moment. I've written about being at the bottom of the mountain a lot lately...yet that reading wasn't from that place...simply because the need in this situation altered. I'm aware there is no top or bottom and that I'm not fixed in one place or another.

In this, there is a difference between seeing what is there, and saying the words that need to be said.

[Ivy]

Yes strengthening of trust...yes always getting deeper and stronger...I like this reading thankyou meadows..you read well!

A little shove never hurts anyone when its in the best interests of all as one....:wink:

So this one wasn't my own relection? :wink:

So would you join me in that space, and take a reading from there that you could give?

[silent whisper]

So this one wasn't my own relection? :wink:

So would you join me in that space, and take a reading from there that you could give?


I could if you would like me too...here or somewhere else?:wink:

[Ivy]

I could if you would like me too...here or somewhere else?:wink:

See if you're drawn to do it...if not that's ok.

[Mr Interesting]

Last week I finally started cleaning up my garage which has been just full of stuff and without a space to work for about a year and a half. But did I just start cleaning? Nope, I started demolishing shelves and making it even more untidy whilst realising that the whole space wanted a revamp.

Then yesterday I decided my living space also need re-orientation and moved everything in it to a new location. I don't just vacuum, I completely change the space to suit something that's burbling away underneath.

And I've done all this so often in the past that I'm quite aware that something quite big is in the offing and it's time to get the houses in order to be able to start this new big enterprise with a clean slate... with the proviso that I have no real ambitions to do anything except be as ready as I can for what's coming up. whatever it may be.

And this gels somewhat nicely with what Gem said earlier about the illusion being about flux. That within this seeming concreteness of reality, the hard edges of stuff, that underneath all this the changes are always occurring and that looking within at the substance we can read those dreams, let them unfold as they might.

And that eventually the less we have of stuff then the more able we are to move with that dream... somehow, or maybe the amount of stuff doesn't matter but it's just about becoming more aware of the underneathedness... the changing, in flux nature of reality, and being with it and of it.

[Mr Interesting]

This is just a matter of allowing to the best of your ability, being transparent to that infinite vibration of Love. That's your real nature.
Unborn Unity says it best! (taken from the big thread growing and a poignant description of what I've been trying to say about illusion)

But we all have our parts to play and mine is that middly muddly bit between.

[Bluegreen]

In an earlier post I proposed that the illusion is thinking that what we experience with our senses is real. It isn't because everything has changed before our brains registers whatever our senses tell us.

Another illusion is the separateness we feel. It is an illusion to think we are separate from All That Is.