View Full Version : Learning to Love Yourself
Michelle11
17-02-2013, 08:43 PM
This subject may have been broached by someone but thought I would start it just the same. So what does it mean to everyone to love yourself. I think somewhere along the line of me trying to always be the best me possible I fell into a habit of being super hypercritical of myself to the point I really don't give myself credit for anything and I am always beating myself up for any missteps I make. But the idea of praising myself feels boastful and kind of egotistical so I just don't go there and yet I have been shown that my attitudes towards myself are not healthy and I may be headed for disaster if I don't ease up on myself. Not that I am horrible to myself all the time but when I am I can be quite unforgiving. Funny thing is I do know I am loved by others I just can't seem to find that same love for myself. So what does it mean to love yourself and how do you get there?
psychoslice
17-02-2013, 09:32 PM
What I have realized is, its not learning to love yourself, but remembering who you truly are, and that is love itself. Love isn't something to be found outside of yourself, or from someone else, love is simply who you are, everything came from love, and one day will return to love. Love is the Source, its like the ocean where all the rivers run into, and where all the rivers will continue from. Find who you truly are, and there you will remember love.
What I have realized is, its not learning to love yourself, but remembering who you truly are, and that is love itself. Love isn't something to be found outside of yourself, or from someone else, love is simply who you are, everything came from love, and one day will return to love. Love is the Source, its like the ocean where all the rivers run into, and where all the rivers will continue from. Find who you truly are, and there you will remember love.
If everything is love, then it follows one could indeed look outside of themself or from someone else because they would also be love, no?
Why differentiate between inside and outside or oneself and another, if everything is love?
"Who you truly are...is love itself." What does that even mean?
If everything is love, then it follows one could indeed look outside of themself or from someone else because they would also be love, no?
Why differentiate between inside and outside or oneself and another, if everything is love?
"Who you truly are...is love itself." What does that even mean?
Good points, but when you love self, with all its faults and imperfections, then that inner love expands to include everything and everyone around you. You carry the vibration of inner love in your energy field, which changes your perceptions, your reactions and your impact on others. It won't make you perfect or immune from troubles, but it will make you a better, more authentic person.
psychoslice
17-02-2013, 10:09 PM
If everything is love, then it follows one could indeed look outside of themself or from someone else because they would also be love, no?
Why differentiate between inside and outside or oneself and another, if everything is love?
"Who you truly are...is love itself." What does that even mean?
Good question....the so called outside is love also, but its the shadow of Love, just like we are when we believe we are the mind body organism, in truth we are much more than the body, we are Consciousness, or pure Source. You can go through your life loving all that is out there, but you will never be truly happy, or contented, you will be lacking something that you will try to search for. That lacking is your true Self, Realize that and true Love will naturally follow.
shadedragon
17-02-2013, 10:55 PM
Loving yourself, to me, is being unconditional... not beating yourself up when you stumble, taking care of yourself providing for yourself, looking out for yourself... letting yourself make a mistake sometimes and forgiving yourself without the punch. It is accepting you for who you are without trying to change yourself to be accepted, but to decide to take care of yourself and be your best, to belief that you can do it. Believing in yourself, carrying yourself, knowing that you're able, or that you can become able... to accept and love you for who you are without a mask, for example, there are many ppl I know who are repulsed by their incapabilties, flaws, appearance, etc. They step away from who they are and put something on to make them more appealing and help them love themselves for who they are, but loving oneself is looking in the mirror when we are in our birthday suits and being able to say "I love you." :tongue: :D strong and clearly. That's the physical side, and then we have to do the same with our mental, spiritual, and many other aspects.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 12:29 AM
What I have realized is, its not learning to love yourself, but remembering who you truly are, and that is love itself. Love isn't something to be found outside of yourself, or from someone else, love is simply who you are, everything came from love, and one day will return to love. Love is the Source, its like the ocean where all the rivers run into, and where all the rivers will continue from. Find who you truly are, and there you will remember love.
Good point. Though I am not looking for it outside. I already know it is outside there coming towards me from others. I just can't seem to find it for myself. I just can't seem to feel the love I am. I can send it out to others but don't necessarily understand what it means to love me. Kind of like it is a foreign concept for some reason. I know it shouldn't be but it is.
Miss Hepburn
18-02-2013, 12:35 AM
Funny that I just posted something in the Twin souls Section...
Titled " How to be a magnet...to love and others".
This is my 2 cents...
There, I told of something I was taught and did with a huge success rate.
It had to do with reprogramming your subconscious mind, sort of an auto- suggestion, repeated aloud, while very relaxed.
Only briefly here:
"The more I, Robert, love myself the more others will love me.
The more you, Robert, love yourself the more others will love you.
The more he, Robert, loves himself the more others will love him.".....times 10.
Relaxing, breathing easily, maybe in a recliner....you say this for,say, a week...
In doing so, eventually this question comes up of, "How do I love myself."
Well, how do you love anyone or even a pet. You will naturally find that you want to make them comfortable and happy...so you find yourself relaxing more into the chair...enjoying the chair....your breathing becomes more pleasurable and on and on, you enjoy and feel your walking is different...tasting food is more enjoyable because you are loving yourself...just as you want a loved one to enjoy the food you just made them or the gift you just bought them....but you are loving 'you'.
Knowing who and what you are is so important...for example, I know I am God's beloved creature, daughter...I know "He" wants my love...I can't love my Creator if I am feeling guilt, anger, jealousy, indignation, etc...just as you can't love a dog or your partner if they are feeling guilt, fear, anger, etc.
It is our duty, imo, to realize who we are so we can feel the Love from our Source or Father God, that is within and without us everywhere wanting to shower us with anything we want, ask for and believe will be given or manifested
Many ways to say the same thing according to a person's preferences.
To not love yourself and be open to the love meant for you, us...is what is called sin, meaning 'missing the mark'.
Imo.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 12:35 AM
Loving yourself, to me, is being unconditional... not beating yourself up when you stumble, taking care of yourself providing for yourself, looking out for yourself... letting yourself make a mistake sometimes and forgiving yourself without the punch. It is accepting you for who you are without trying to change yourself to be accepted, but to decide to take care of yourself and be your best, to belief that you can do it. Believing in yourself, carrying yourself, knowing that you're able, or that you can become able... to accept and love you for who you are without a mask, for example, there are many ppl I know who are repulsed by their incapabilties, flaws, appearance, etc. They step away from who they are and put something on to make them more appealing and help them love themselves for who they are, but loving oneself is looking in the mirror when we are in our birthday suits and being able to say "I love you." :tongue: :D strong and clearly. That's the physical side, and then we have to do the same with our mental, spiritual, and many other aspects.
Yes, I believe this as well. Though I don't so much have an issue with my physical appearance it is more to do with an issue with my behavior and mistakes. So I do understand it is a matter of getting to the unconditional part but right now I am unable to stop the punch and I don't know why. I don't know how to get to the unconditional part. I have made a lot of strides in really understanding life and not holding people accountable for their actions because they are just trying to do their best. But obviously I am still putting conditions on myself. Others can be flawed but I haven't yet allowed myself to be. Hmmm.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 12:41 AM
Funny that I just posted something in the Twin souls Section...
Titled " How to be a magnet...to love and others".
This is my 2 cents...
There, I told of something I was taught and did with a huge success rate.
It had to do with reprogramming your subconscious mind, sort of an auto- suggestion, repeated aloud, while very relaxed.
Only briefly here:
"The more I, Robert, love myself the more others will love me.
The more you, Robert, love yourself the more others will love you.
The more he, Robert, loves himself the more others will love him.".....times 10.
Relaxing, breathing easily, maybe in a recliner....you say this for,say, a week...
In doing so, eventually this question comes up of, "How do I love myself."
Well, how do you love anyone or even a pet. You will naturally find that you want to make them comfortable and happy...so you find yourself relaxing more into the chair...enjoying the chair....your breathing becomes more pleasurable and on and on, you enjoy and feel your walking is different...tasting food is more enjoyable because you are loving yourself...just as you want a loved one to enjoy the food you just made them or the gift you just bought them....but you are loving 'you'.
Knowing who and what you are is so important...for example, I know I am God's beloved creature, daughter...I know "He" wants my love...I can't love my Creator if I am feeling guilt, anger, jealousy, indignation, etc...just as you can't love a dog or your partner if they are feeling guilt, fear, anger, etc.
It is our duty, imo, to realize who we are so we can feel the Love from our Source or Father God, that is within and without us everywhere wanting to shower us with anything we want, ask for and believe will be given or manifested
Many ways to say the same thing according to a person's preferences.
To not love yourself and be open to the love meant for you, us...is what is called sin, meaning 'missing the mark'.
Imo.
I will say that I do see our brains are creatures of habit. Fake it until you make it is a saying that seems to ring true for what you are saying. Retrain my brain to forgive and love myself instead of judging.
psychoslice
18-02-2013, 12:48 AM
Good point. Though I am not looking for it outside. I already know it is outside there coming towards me from others. I just can't seem to find it for myself. I just can't seem to feel the love I am. I can send it out to others but don't necessarily understand what it means to love me. Kind of like it is a foreign concept for some reason. I know it shouldn't be but it is.
Love isn't something to be known, its what you are, I don't like the word love myself, like its just too tarnished, to over used. In fact forget the word love and just be yourself, don't try and be something your not. If you are yourself, this so called love will just naturally shine, you will then see this shinning in others. Anyone who comes to you who are not their true self, will not be able to stay very long. They would be far too neurotic to be able to be around you, they wouldn't get away with their neurotic behavior, and this is because of their ego realizing that it will be caught out.
Don't try to be love, don't try to be anything, just be you, that is all you will ever need to do.
Miss Hepburn
18-02-2013, 12:52 AM
I have been told our subconscious mind doesn't really know what is real.
If I imagine being serenely on a beach...my chemistry will change along with other things...if I was hooked for a reading.
I said for a year, "Money comes easily to me." ( I'm self employed in a weird economy.)
Then, not to my surprise, I was given freely, $100,000 to pay off my mortgage.
The friend knew, as I did, God was working thru them.
I think not only the subconscious mind changes but the entire surrounding environment starts adapting to what I believe .
Loving myself and this life and my Father God/ Holy Spirit, whatever It is called , has been the freeing Grace I feel I was meant to learn here...that I am a co creator with God, a part of the Godhead,meant to enjoy this life from head to toe...while acknowledging "Him" Who is looking out from behind my eyes!
:notworthy:
Nameless
18-02-2013, 01:07 AM
If you don't mind me speaking in the "we" of speach, instead of the I, I would like to add that this came up for me last year and when I found the answer to this question, my life changed in ways I could never have imagined.
We are taught, when we are little, that it does not matter what we think about ourselves so much as it matters what we think about other people. We must treat others with respect, we must care what they think about us and we must care more about what they think than what we think, otherwise then we are selfish creatures. We are taught to care more about what our parents think about us than what we might think about us, what the teacher thinks about us, what everyone thinks about us is more important. It is hard to get a grasp on that, but when you find that and when you feel that, then you can begin the realization that you must be selfish if you want to love yourself. That is what being selfish is. And how many of us are taught to be selfish? How many of us are taught it is selfish to be selfish? But you are the only one that can change anything in your experience. No one else can change you, only you can. So, to not be selfish, is to not love yourself.
Once you realize it is important that you love yourself, then you can being to find out why it is that you don't. What happens to us that we are not taught to love ourselves, but to put everyone else first? It is in the water, I think. No, really, that belief is given to us when we are very little. Until you question it, it will always remain the same.
I like Miss H's way, it seems relatively simple. Simple has worked well for me too. I began by telling myself every morning, when I do my "mantra" that I made up myself that gets me in my happy place, that I love myself. At first I didn't believe it, it felt very strange to say. But your inner being, the you that is your soul, belives it, lives it everyday with you, and when you start to believe it, your life changes.
Have fun with it. Fake it till you make it.
Here is one of Abraham's (a group of non-physical entities) on "The Value of Being Selfish", as channeled by Esther Hicks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfreRMANJMc
Can't get enough Abraham. My life is so good and I love myself and that is the good stuff of life.
amy green
18-02-2013, 01:08 AM
Michelle - I think learning to love yourself can start by being a friend to yourself. It sounds like you are overly harsh to yourself. Do you think you might be a perfectionist? To err is human! I realise that you probably have strong goals of what you expect yourself to achieve, hence the beating up on yourself. Could you still not have these goals but allow yourself a little slack/kindness? Softening? Love?
I understand what you say about praising yourself...of course that's the other extreme. There's a middle ground though. You could "own" qualities/virtues that your friends say you have...i.e. allowing yourself to really admit these and assimilate them into your mindset. Perhaps reminding yourself of these when you are prone to give yourself a hard time. It's really about addressing the imbalance (before you go all out and actually love yourself!). With awareness (catching the act of negativity) comes choice - choosing a better reaction. I have found that this new direction eventually becomes 'hard wired' with practice.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 04:30 AM
Psychoslice, I like this "Don't try to be love" Maybe that is what I am trying to do. Think I need to be love.
Miss Hepburn, I am impressed. You have the clearest grasp on the law of attraction than anyone I know. During a positive period of my life I was able to do a wee bit of attracting but I think I need to clear out this bit about my attitudes towards myself but very impressive indeed.
Nameless, Yes I am definitely of the mindset that you are supposed to love your neighbor and everyone else first. But you are correct I have been shown that I do indeed need to learn to love myself or I may be headed towards disaster if I don't. I guess it is the next lesson for me to learn. So I have become aware of the issue but have not yet maybe discovered why it is I don't. I will have to think about that one a bit.
Amy, yes I am very harsh on myself when I do not behave in ways I think I should and could. I am definitely a perfectionist. I realized this was challenged in me by my father and now I even see that my boss has a lot of similar traits so definitely a life lesson but I do think the first step maybe before going all the way into love is maybe to first stop beating myself up when I do slip up.
in progress
18-02-2013, 09:00 AM
I'm starting to see this discussion more now. I'm not sure if it's because I've become more aware of it recently or if it's a current energetic theme for many. I've just started working on loving myself more, or pulling through the unconditional love that already exists inside. However you want to look at it.
I do a lot of negative self-talk which makes for a messy view on life's happenings and a lot of self-created emotional grief. I think working on the heart chakra is a great way to begin. Find some light meditations, golden light for the heart might work better but do what feels intuitively comfortable. Xan had a thread on different heart meditations. You will then get better at aligning with this frequency at will which is quite helpful.
I would also ask for help on this issue with from your divine friends. Even if you aren't in conscious contact with them they are there and they will help you and nudge you in the direction you need. Talk to them, ask for help! Also ask for the experts in self-love to help you (whoever they might be!).
I would also start talking to your body and your cells, see what comes up. There is stuff hidden in there waiting for you to notice.
Start asking yourself several times a day, "How am I feeling now?" Check in with your emotions, thoughts, your body.. what's going on? What can you do to bring yourself back in alignment with your "frequency goal"? If your mind is busy with self talk, clear it for a moment, if your emotions are all over the place, get heart-centered. If your body has an ache, ask it what's going one, feel your pain, discomfort etc note where it's located. The body is pretty literal and since you know about dream symbols you will have a good idea what your body is trying to say.
Still a work "in progress". Ego says it can't happen fast enough. Divine self says, "Isn't this trip a blast?!" (crazy divine self!)
These are some of the "tools" I've been using and I have made progress in general. And the funny thing is that as I make progress I note that the environment around me changes as well. (exterior mirrors interior)
I got a little long-winded but I hope this is helpful.
My perspective is entirely different because I won't tell you what to do or advise you in any way, I just say what I think because the topic is interesting.
The thing is, what we think of ourselves isn't arbitually invented... it's based on events that happen, and we assume the events are evidence for something about ourselves, and if you try to say that a negative self thought isn't true, the mind will immediately produce evidence. The same applies to positive self statements, all self statements are evidenced by actual events.
When the mistake happens one assumes, 'I'm a friggin idiot' (for example), so the event is evidence for the assumption, and in the past there were a plethora of mistakes made, so there is a huge mountain of evidence... and there is a point in time when that assumption was first made, a particular pivotal event, and since then evidence has been collected to support that assumption, to support that belief.
in progress
18-02-2013, 10:19 AM
My take on it is different from Gem's but I think we are getting to the same end result basically. I see the feeling state as arising first, then the mind needs to explain the feeling state. This is when Gem's mind's assumption part kicks in.
We, as creators, create events to show us how we are feeling. I've even heard that we create accidents to show us we are in pain. Thus the concept of the exterior as a mirror of the interior.
We gave ourselves the illusion of separation which caused within us these "out of alignment with source" feeling states. I think it was to explore feeling states more fully than we could otherwise when remembering our connection to source energy.
The trick now is to remember that ALL feeling states are a choice. This does not sit well with the ego.
And I do agree that the mind looks for supporting evidence for its beliefs and it will always find it. I go a step further and say we even create situations in our environment to support our thoughts. It's part of the illusion of 3D. I think this is the concept of Maya though I might be mistaken.
God-Like
18-02-2013, 11:44 AM
Loving yourself cannot be willfully done I would say .
It’s like you cannot go about your day planning to love your self a wee bit more or go about doing things within your day that will create an element of love for one’s self .
For what one does within one’s day be it through their expressive thoughts / actions / doings will come about through an automated response to that which comes naturally to them .
A selfish man for instance automatically thinks of one’s self when an opportunity arises for self gain .
And anyone can give something of themselves to another in some shape or form but what comes out from the love of self is the lack of thought that one has in helping another .
The irony of self love is being selfless .. and when you are being selfless you won’t know that you are ...
x daz x
Loving yourself cannot be willfully done I would say .
It’s like you cannot go about your day planning to love your self a wee bit more or go about doing things within your day that will create an element of love for one’s self .
For what one does within one’s day be it through their expressive thoughts / actions / doings will come about through an automated response to that which comes naturally to them .
A selfish man for instance automatically thinks of one’s self when an opportunity arises for self gain .
And anyone can give something of themselves to another in some shape or form but what comes out from the love of self is the lack of thought that one has in helping another .
The irony of self love is being selfless .. and when you are being selfless you won’t know that you are ...
x daz x
I don't know I'm selfless, but i know I'm selfish, but that's a good thing right? or is it? Hard to tell innit.
sound
18-02-2013, 12:42 PM
This subject may have been broached by someone but thought I would start it just the same. So what does it mean to everyone to love yourself. I think somewhere along the line of me trying to always be the best me possible I fell into a habit of being super hypercritical of myself to the point I really don't give myself credit for anything and I am always beating myself up for any missteps I make. But the idea of praising myself feels boastful and kind of egotistical so I just don't go there and yet I have been shown that my attitudes towards myself are not healthy and I may be headed for disaster if I don't ease up on myself. Not that I am horrible to myself all the time but when I am I can be quite unforgiving. Funny thing is I do know I am loved by others I just can't seem to find that same love for myself. So what does it mean to love yourself and how do you get there?
I don't always love myself but i think what happens for me sometimes is I accept my 'less than loving' behaviour. i don't pretend to try to be loving toward others all the time because that is not what happens for me. I catch myself being selfish and dismissive and sometimes just a little too 'pushy' and other 'shortcomings' which i am sure others would be quite comfortable pointing out to me given half the chance :D ... I accept those facets of me though ... and ... gone are the days where i feel big headed if i acknowledge my strengths ... I have realized that by acknowledging what i am ok with, I am opening myself to those 'other' areas, which require greater focus ... it all sounds so wonderful and wise at the time lol ... human experience is what it is ... as someone mentioned a few days back on some distant thread ... none of us are infallible ... and if I tell you otherwise remind me that i am talking **** lol
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wi4jhvNnVrk/UPdZ47OG57I/AAAAAAABCwU/AnHZmhgAGwY/s1600/ME_205_LoveYourself.jpg
God-Like
18-02-2013, 01:31 PM
I don't know I'm selfless, but i know I'm selfish, but that's a good thing right? or is it? Hard to tell innit.
Perhaps it just shows that there is a particular awareness of self had within certain expressions be it through a selfless or a selfish one ..
Perhaps everything the selfish man desires on some level is self love .. The very thing that he cannot attain whilst he remains selfish .
x daz x
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 06:53 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wi4jhvNnVrk/UPdZ47OG57I/AAAAAAABCwU/AnHZmhgAGwY/s1600/ME_205_LoveYourself.jpg
Hilarious. I love it.
Mr Interesting
18-02-2013, 08:45 PM
I heartily agree with Miss Hepburn though I don't disagree with anyone else.
About 12 years ago, after losing everything, I decided I still liked doing what had led to the lose and that it wasn't what I was doing that led to this but how I was doing it. So I took advantage of the situation I was in and offered someone with cash resources more of what they wanted by doing what I am good at to get something I wanted.
I ended up with about 400 square metres of land and started building illegal buildings to house myself and I used stuff I found to do so. So for the last 12 years I've been able to do whatever I want and not pay rent in return for a little work on the side.
You might say that very early in life I started trusting in my own abilities, not only in the ones I'd accumulated but in the ones I'd yet to attain. That trust allowed me to discover myself and project that confidence into the world which in turn trusted me to do what I envisaged I could... not knowing I could, but trusting enough in myself to know I could most probably... if luck came to the party like it usually did!
So I suppose loving oneself is a gradual process that isn't like a light suddenly being turned on, though I'm not saying it couldn't be that sudden, but that you have to trust and support what you are above and beyond, but not getting in the way of others who are doing so too, anyone else... and that this leads to love. You are indeed already love, but fitting that too the world won't help you be that love. Fitting the world to you, having it support and trust you as you yourself trust and support what you are, I reckon, is the way to uncover our own love.
And the world benefits the most from us when we come from that place of loving and supporting ourself.
psychoslice
18-02-2013, 09:29 PM
Loving yourself cannot be willfully done I would say .
It’s like you cannot go about your day planning to love your self a wee bit more or go about doing things within your day that will create an element of love for one’s self .
For what one does within one’s day be it through their expressive thoughts / actions / doings will come about through an automated response to that which comes naturally to them .
A selfish man for instance automatically thinks of one’s self when an opportunity arises for self gain .
And anyone can give something of themselves to another in some shape or form but what comes out from the love of self is the lack of thought that one has in helping another .
The irony of self love is being selfless .. and when you are being selfless you won’t know that you are ...
x daz x
Hi Daz, yes I like what you said, for me its not loving the false self, that is the self we believe we are, its more loving who we truly are, and that is our true Source. This Source is who we all are, so by loving who we truly are, we automatically love everyone else.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 10:29 PM
I'm starting to see this discussion more now. I'm not sure if it's because I've become more aware of it recently or if it's a current energetic theme for many. I've just started working on loving myself more, or pulling through the unconditional love that already exists inside. However you want to look at it.
I do a lot of negative self-talk which makes for a messy view on life's happenings and a lot of self-created emotional grief. I think working on the heart chakra is a great way to begin. Find some light meditations, golden light for the heart might work better but do what feels intuitively comfortable. Xan had a thread on different heart meditations. You will then get better at aligning with this frequency at will which is quite helpful.
I would also ask for help on this issue with from your divine friends. Even if you aren't in conscious contact with them they are there and they will help you and nudge you in the direction you need. Talk to them, ask for help! Also ask for the experts in self-love to help you (whoever they might be!).
I would also start talking to your body and your cells, see what comes up. There is stuff hidden in there waiting for you to notice.
Start asking yourself several times a day, "How am I feeling now?" Check in with your emotions, thoughts, your body.. what's going on? What can you do to bring yourself back in alignment with your "frequency goal"? If your mind is busy with self talk, clear it for a moment, if your emotions are all over the place, get heart-centered. If your body has an ache, ask it what's going one, feel your pain, discomfort etc note where it's located. The body is pretty literal and since you know about dream symbols you will have a good idea what your body is trying to say.
Still a work "in progress". Ego says it can't happen fast enough. Divine self says, "Isn't this trip a blast?!" (crazy divine self!)
These are some of the "tools" I've been using and I have made progress in general. And the funny thing is that as I make progress I note that the environment around me changes as well. (exterior mirrors interior)
I got a little long-winded but I hope this is helpful.
Interesting you say ask for help. I actually am getting a lot of really good guidance from my higherself or whomever helps us on the other side then I did when I was younger. I have learned how to tape into and/or listen to the guidance and through all of this I keep getting Ask For Help but the thing is it feels like I am asking but something is stuck. I need to let something go first that I can't quite put my finger on. I actually have a lot of dreams about issues with the bathroom that also indicate a need to let something go. But I am all for asking for help. If I have learned anything beneficial from this life is that asking questions propels us forward. Ask and you shall receive holds the key.
Perhaps it just shows that there is a particular awareness of self had within certain expressions be it through a selfless or a selfish one ..
Perhaps everything the selfish man desires on some level is self love .. The very thing that he cannot attain whilst he remains selfish .
x daz x
It could 'perhaps' be nealy anything you simply don't know, maybe the selfish man just wants what he wants and loves himself just fine.
Hi Daz, yes I like what you said, for me its not loving the false self, that is the self we believe we are, its more loving who we truly are, and that is our true Source. This Source is who we all are, so by loving who we truly are, we automatically love everyone else.
Why listen to you anyway you said other people's words are useless second hand/// oh that's right, these are YOUR words so suddenly they're brand new and useful, I get it now.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 10:53 PM
My perspective is entirely different because I won't tell you what to do or advise you in any way, I just say what I think because the topic is interesting.
The thing is, what we think of ourselves isn't arbitually invented... it's based on events that happen, and we assume the events are evidence for something about ourselves, and if you try to say that a negative self thought isn't true, the mind will immediately produce evidence. The same applies to positive self statements, all self statements are evidenced by actual events.
When the mistake happens one assumes, 'I'm a friggin idiot' (for example), so the event is evidence for the assumption, and in the past there were a plethora of mistakes made, so there is a huge mountain of evidence... and there is a point in time when that assumption was first made, a particular pivotal event, and since then evidence has been collected to support that assumption, to support that belief.
Interesting. I have spent my whole life working on my spiritual progress. I am driven by it. I don't know a single soul in my immediate life who is as passionate about figuring it all out as I am. it really is who I am and I can't separate my drive from my life. So I come here to talk with people who get it. Who are just as into figuring it out as I am. What struck me with what you said was a pivotal event.
When I was younger I spent a lot of time analyzing my every move pretty much getting down on myself for every misstep. It got so bad I seriously almost had a nervous breakdown and then in a flash I had an epiphany that when I woke in the morning I never intended to make a mistake. I almost always did but it wasn't my intent so in that instance I choose to define myself by the fact that I always tried to do my best and get it right ever time I took a step and as such in that moment I had what I can only describe as a paradigm shift of some sort. I was at total peace with the world and myself. Everything was OK I was in the flow and life was good. I still made mistakes but I didn't beat myself up so much and for sure didn't carry the pain of the mistake with me beyond the situation.
But then something occurred in my life that triggered a depressive state. I kind of thought to myself I should have seen it coming and essentially in that instant just as quickly as I had shifted away from bad feelings I shifted back into them falling harder than I was previously because something in me had changed. Where before I really tried extremely hard to suppress my emotions I couldn't anymore so things got a bit out of control. Needless to say this made me feel like all the progress I had made that I felt good about was gone as if I was back to square one and it devastated me. And so I do use that as evidence that I was foolish to think I ever really figured anything out. But what I also realize is though I stopped focusing on the mistakes I never really got to a point of accepting that I did make them, I just stopped beating myself up about them. And with that the rose colored glasses fell off. Here I thought I had done such great progress and learned so much about life but I was just fooling myself. yeah, I get it all intellectually but I was not practicing what I was preaching. And that just floored me. I am not who I thought I was.
And so I think I probably keep looking for that next pivotal event that clarifies it all for me again. I will say that I do know that my inner child got hurt by all this and was throwing temper tantrums. Realistically I have made progress. I know I have and understanding what it means to not beat myself up was a good lesson. I have to relearn it but talking about it here has helped me a bit in that respect. And little by I am seeing myself a bit clearer as well as truly seeing the major role those important people in my life have played to help me overcome this tendency to be overly critical and not like myself so much. So though I am still at a loss how to get back to where I was just yet I can see how I am using this event as proof for my negative feelings to hang on. Interesting way to look at the fact our brains are creatures of habit. We do respond based on history but you have added a bit of depth to it.
Michelle11
18-02-2013, 11:04 PM
Loving yourself cannot be willfully done I would say .
It’s like you cannot go about your day planning to love your self a wee bit more or go about doing things within your day that will create an element of love for one’s self .
For what one does within one’s day be it through their expressive thoughts / actions / doings will come about through an automated response to that which comes naturally to them .
A selfish man for instance automatically thinks of one’s self when an opportunity arises for self gain .
And anyone can give something of themselves to another in some shape or form but what comes out from the love of self is the lack of thought that one has in helping another .
The irony of self love is being selfless .. and when you are being selfless you won’t know that you are ...
x daz x
Hmm, I am not quite sure what you are getting at. I can actually be rather selfless in regards to others but I still can have a lot of animosity towards myself especially in those instances when I am not being selfless with others as much as I think I should be as if I am defining myself by my level of selflessness. Never really looked at it that way but I do think I am kind of doing that. But though I feel better when I am being generous and kind with others there is still an underlying negative feeling inside that hasn't been resolved.
Seawolf
18-02-2013, 11:27 PM
I think it's a good point to love Source or God and that helps us love ourselves because God is in everything. God is even in the negative things I think about myself, so I should be kind to everything. I don't want to forget the good things about myself either, I tend to do that but observing thoughts now has led me to remember.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 01:05 AM
Why listen to you anyway you said other people's words are useless second hand/// oh that's right, these are YOUR words so suddenly they're brand new and useful, I get it now.
Yes I liked what Daz said, I know there second-hand, that is why I have already dropped them, but you seem to be holding on to them for some reason, OH yes you are.:tongue:
Yes I liked what Daz said, I know there second-hand, that is why I have already dropped them, but you seem to be holding on to them for some reason, OH yes you are.:tongue:
I don't like it when people demean what I say to position themselves as 'us', it's OK not to like what I say, but not use to it for some grandiose platform, and that's your game really... nicely played too.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 02:16 AM
I don't like it when people demean what I say to position themselves as 'us', it's OK not to like what I say, but not use to it for some grandiose platform, and that's your game really... nicely played too.
Thanks Gemie, I try my best lol.:angel8:
Miss Hepburn
19-02-2013, 02:17 AM
Oh, I forgot to say...I'd rather be with myself, alone, than with anyone else in the world.
And NOBODY makes me laugh more.
:glasses10:
silent whisper
19-02-2013, 02:33 AM
This subject may have been broached by someone but thought I would start it just the same. So what does it mean to everyone to love yourself. I think somewhere along the line of me trying to always be the best me possible I fell into a habit of being super hypercritical of myself to the point I really don't give myself credit for anything and I am always beating myself up for any missteps I make. But the idea of praising myself feels boastful and kind of egotistical so I just don't go there and yet I have been shown that my attitudes towards myself are not healthy and I may be headed for disaster if I don't ease up on myself. Not that I am horrible to myself all the time but when I am I can be quite unforgiving. Funny thing is I do know I am loved by others I just can't seem to find that same love for myself. So what does it mean to love yourself and how do you get there?
By letting all the concepts of love and mind conditions that tell you that you are unworthy..of being yourself....to control you.
Then as you see yourself warts and all, you can either shrink and reject what you see of yourself, or embrace it and do it again next time....till it feels just the right balance of who you really are beyond all the mind talk..
God-Like
19-02-2013, 08:08 AM
Hi Daz, yes I like what you said, for me its not loving the false self, that is the self we believe we are, its more loving who we truly are, and that is our true Source. This Source is who we all are, so by loving who we truly are, we automatically love everyone else.
I understand you robbie but I was relating to the self that can be related too . I feel that if one has the love of this ‘false self’ as you put it then that opens the doors to the ‘true’ self aspect .
I see that the mind body self along with it’s character traits as just an expression of ‘the self’ .. true and false are subjective terms made because of the many expressions the self can portray .
If an individual is not at peace with their current expression like a selfish man they will not transcend the selfish traits until they recognize their selfishness .. they won’t taste the fruit of their ‘true self’ whilst their attention is on me, me, me, me ....
Every aspect of the self is the love of what they are .. to realize this one must love every aspect of what they are whether they are in experience of the physical mind body or the etheric mind body .. etc
x daz x
God-Like
19-02-2013, 08:09 AM
Hmm, I am not quite sure what you are getting at. I can actually be rather selfless in regards to others but I still can have a lot of animosity towards myself especially in those instances when I am not being selfless with others as much as I think I should be as if I am defining myself by my level of selflessness. Never really looked at it that way but I do think I am kind of doing that. But though I feel better when I am being generous and kind with others there is still an underlying negative feeling inside that hasn't been resolved.
Hi Michelle
I would say the inner peace reflects the inner love or the self love . Whilst anyone holds on to conflict within themselves they are reflecting that outwardly in some shape or form . Self love equates in the mind to no conflict . Which is why at some point everyone will look at themselves and resolve their issues/demons .
x daz x
God-Like
19-02-2013, 08:12 AM
It could 'perhaps' be nealy anything you simply don't know, maybe the selfish man just wants what he wants and loves himself just fine.
Its all love gem .. Just different expressions of love .. Selfishness and selflessness just represents different sides of the same coin .. as the saying goes ..
x daz x
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 08:46 AM
I understand you robbie but I was relating to the self that can be related too . I feel that if one has the love of this ‘false self’ as you put it then that opens the doors to the ‘true’ self aspect .
I see that the mind body self along with it’s character traits as just an expression of ‘the self’ .. true and false are subjective terms made because of the many expressions the self can portray .
If an individual is not at peace with their current expression like a selfish man they will not transcend the selfish traits until they recognize their selfishness .. they won’t taste the fruit of their ‘true self’ whilst their attention is on me, me, me, me ....
Every aspect of the self is the love of what they are .. to realize this one must love every aspect of what they are whether they are in experience of the physical mind body or the etheric mind body .. etc
x daz x
Hi Daz,loving ever so called aspect is Ok I suppose, but one is still false and the other is simply who you are, I myself will stick to the true SELF, and navigate from there lol.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 08:48 AM
Its all love gem .. Just different expressions of love .. Selfishness and selflessness just represents different sides of the same coin .. as the saying goes ..
x daz x
True Love doesn't have sides, that belongs in duality, not Oneness.
God-Like
19-02-2013, 08:53 AM
Hi Daz,loving ever so called aspect is Ok I suppose, but one is still false and the other is simply who you are, I myself will stick to the true SELF, and navigate from there lol.
The thing is robbie is that many can only relate the self to the 'person' that they think they are . If one cannot see beyond the flesh then it is the flesh that they relate love too .
I know you see beyond that but for a personalised love to transcend the person one must firstly address the love of the person even if the person is not who they are in entirety .
x daz x
God-Like
19-02-2013, 08:56 AM
True Love doesn't have sides, that belongs in duality, not Oneness.
True love is dual in nature apposed to that which is not true . If one relates within mind to love then there are many sides or many expressions of the one same love .
Its just love .. no true love or false love . Love is of the mind .
x daz x
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 09:45 AM
The thing is robbie is that many can only relate the self to the 'person' that they think they are . If one cannot see beyond the flesh then it is the flesh that they relate love too .
I know you see beyond that but for a personalised love to transcend the person one must firstly address the love of the person even if the person is not who they are in entirety .
x daz x
Yes I see what you mean, but no amount of loving the false self, is ever going to Awaken one to their true Being, in fact one is already that, its just the false love that blind one from realizing that.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 09:47 AM
True love is dual in nature apposed to that which is not true . If one relates within mind to love then there are many sides or many expressions of the one same love .
Its just love .. no true love or false love . Love is of the mind .
x daz x
The Love that I know of, is far beyond the mind, what the mind experiences, is secondary to that which is Real.
Michelle11
19-02-2013, 10:28 AM
Hi Michelle
I would say the inner peace reflects the inner love or the self love . Whilst anyone holds on to conflict within themselves they are reflecting that outwardly in some shape or form . Self love equates in the mind to no conflict . Which is why at some point everyone will look at themselves and resolve their issues/demons .
x daz x
Ok, yeah, it does make sense that self love equates to no conflict. I have been getting a lot of surrender and let go signs/messages and know that needs to be done to stop the inner conflict but it is a bit difficult to not fight the negative feelings. I guess we all naturally want to try to rid ourselves of those things that don't feel good but the fighting it is what is keeping it around in the first place. Not quite sure how to stop fighting it.
Michelle11
19-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Still a work "in progress". Ego says it can't happen fast enough. Divine self says, "Isn't this trip a blast?!" (crazy divine self!)
I meant to highlight this before. I get a lot of song lryics stuck in my head as guidance. They have usually been a source of inspiration when I would hit low times but I have had one song that pops in often and it is the Dirty Dancing song "I've had the time of my life" Yes, I think our higherselves or whomever thinks this is all just a ball. I'm like you've got to be kidding but there they are having a grand old time. Well I am sure I will look back on all this and be grateful for the learning experience but yes my ego is in a hurry. Anyways, great insight.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 10:36 AM
You will never win the fight, what you are fighting is illusory, there is only one true power, as long as we are fighting we are giving our power to the illusory dream, that we believe we are. Realize your true inner Being, and the fight is over, its now seen for what it is, an illusion.
Michelle11
19-02-2013, 10:40 AM
You will never win the fight, what you are fighting is illusory, there is only one true power, as long as we are fighting we are giving our power to the illusory dream, that we believe we are. Realize your true inner Being, and the fight is over, its now seen for what it is, an illusion.
You are right. I actually sometimes don't even really know what I am fighting. Why I am so resistant. But I am trying to see/feel the inner being. I think that is part of it. I am unable to see it just yet. The habit of all the critical self talk has kind of blocked it.
Michelle11
19-02-2013, 10:44 AM
I did wake this morning saying "With the next rain you will take a bath" So maybe with my next meltdown I will have some sort of epiphany and finally surrender and let this all go. Or maybe I was just encouraging myself to do so. Either way it sounds like a good sign.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 10:47 AM
You are right. I actually sometimes don't even really know what I am fighting. Why I am so resistant. But I am trying to see/feel the inner being. I think that is part of it. I am unable to see it just yet. The habit of all the critical self talk has kind of blocked it.
The good thing is that you have realized what is going on, a great start.:smile:
God-Like
19-02-2013, 11:45 AM
Yes I see what you mean, but no amount of loving the false self, is ever going to Awaken one to their true Being, in fact one is already that, its just the false love that blind one from realizing that.
There is only self (what you are) that is of the mind so in that respect there is no true or false self there is only self .
You can only be aware of love in line with the awareness that one has of self . The selfish man and the selfless man have different awarenesses of the same self and what they relate love to be will reflect in their differences .
The only difference between the selfish and the selfless is what is mindfully perceived as the self to be .
In regards to awakening self there is only self to awaken .
Whats seems apparent is that certain mind sets experienced entertains a particular field of love and self reflection and each life experience had that is acknowledged as having a foundation of love on some level is likened to a key that opens the door to another mind set and to another understanding of what you are and to what is love . There are many doors to our lords mansions as the story goes and each door entered leads one to a further awakening of the self .
The Love that I know of, is far beyond the mind, what the mind experiences, is secondary to that which is Real.
For sure robbie certain mind sets can be limiting where self and love are concerned and beyond mind it could be said that there is no self and nothing to know other than the love of what you are but to know of that love and the difference between the love of the mind and the love beyond mind one will have to be of the mind to know that ..
There needs someone present to relate to one’s understandings/realizations attained . What I do acknowledge is that what lies beyond can integrate an individuals awareness of the mind but how one translates what that is will be through various labels .. like love, self, God, truth, illusion and such likes .. (as you know) .
x daz x
in progress
19-02-2013, 11:46 AM
But I am trying to see/feel the inner being. I think that is part of it. I am unable to see it just yet.
I've been rummaging around inside myself looking for this mystical higher self that resides in there somewhere. I'm getting the feeling it isn't the way I had pictured in terms of finding it or communicating with it or even expressing it. Maybe it happens in a different way than the way I had been imagining. I feel confidant it will sort itself out eventually but in the meantime the mind is still busy analyzing.
Its all love gem .. Just different expressions of love .. Selfishness and selflessness just represents different sides of the same coin .. as the saying goes ..
x daz x
'It's all love', is just a nice thing to say. I think love is overated and nice is insincere, but I have to deal in facts, and not ideals.
Thanks Gemie, I try my best lol.:angel8:
that's OK, you'll get there in your own good time.
God-Like
19-02-2013, 11:58 AM
'It's all love', is just a nice thing to say. I think love is overated and nice is insincere, but I have to deal in facts, and not ideals.
What love do you know? What love are you speaking of?
x daz x
God-Like
19-02-2013, 12:01 PM
Ok, yeah, it does make sense that self love equates to no conflict. I have been getting a lot of surrender and let go signs/messages and know that needs to be done to stop the inner conflict but it is a bit difficult to not fight the negative feelings. I guess we all naturally want to try to rid ourselves of those things that don't feel good but the fighting it is what is keeping it around in the first place. Not quite sure how to stop fighting it.
Well to see the love of self there is no conflict but love is of the conflict if one relates self to love .
the more clearer the water the more transparent love becomes . Conflict muddies the water but we all love playing in mud at times . :D
x daz x
'It's all love', is just a nice thing to say. I think love is overated and nice is insincere, but I have to deal in facts, and not ideals.
Exactly. Time to get real. You'll have to sooner or later when you are starkly confronted with the undeniable fact that it's not "all love."
What love do you know? What love are you speaking of?
x daz x
That's the work of preachers to explain love. Make it about Real Love and True Love and make a God out of it. I could only tell of my squallid egoic muck, so better ask someone who knows.
God-Like
19-02-2013, 12:57 PM
That's the work of preachers to explain love. Make it about Real Love and True Love and make a God out of it. I could only tell of my squallid egoic muck, so better ask someone who knows.
Thats o.k Gem .
I was just interested in your thoughts and how you came to your evaluation .
x daz x
Thats o.k Gem .
I was just interested in your thoughts and how you came to your evaluation .
x daz x
I don't think that's true. I think you like being the expert on love and saw an opportunity to profess.
Interesting. I have spent my whole life working on my spiritual progress. I am driven by it. I don't know a single soul in my immediate life who is as passionate about figuring it all out as I am. it really is who I am and I can't separate my drive from my life. So I come here to talk with people who get it. Who are just as into figuring it out as I am. What struck me with what you said was a pivotal event.
OK, Pivotal event... it's the place in memory where it started.
When I was younger I spent a lot of time analyzing my every move pretty much getting down on myself for every misstep. It got so bad I seriously almost had a nervous breakdown and then in a flash I had an epiphany that when I woke in the morning I never intended to make a mistake. I almost always did but it wasn't my intent so in that instance I choose to define myself by the fact that I always tried to do my best and get it right ever time I took a step and as such in that moment I had what I can only describe as a paradigm shift of some sort. I was at total peace with the world and myself. Everything was OK I was in the flow and life was good. I still made mistakes but I didn't beat myself up so much and for sure didn't carry the pain of the mistake with me beyond the situation.
That sounds good to me.
But then something occurred in my life that triggered a depressive state. I kind of thought to myself I should have seen it coming and essentially in that instant just as quickly as I had shifted away from bad feelings I shifted back into them falling harder than I was previously because something in me had changed. Where before I really tried extremely hard to suppress my emotions I couldn't anymore so things got a bit out of control. Needless to say this made me feel like all the progress I had made that I felt good about was gone as if I was back to square one and it devastated me. And so I do use that as evidence that I was foolish to think I ever really figured anything out. But what I also realize is though I stopped focusing on the mistakes I never really got to a point of accepting that I did make them, I just stopped beating myself up about them. And with that the rose colored glasses fell off. Here I thought I had done such great progress and learned so much about life but I was just fooling myself. yeah, I get it all intellectually but I was not practicing what I was preaching. And that just floored me. I am not who I thought I was.
I guess you isolated some event which changed things, and called it a trigger, and I know people say cute things, but I really think cliches distract from the real life issue at hand, and the actual event/s where it started from.
And so I think I probably keep looking for that next pivotal event that clarifies it all for me again. I will say that I do know that my inner child got hurt by all this and was throwing temper tantrums. Realistically I have made progress. I know I have and understanding what it means to not beat myself up was a good lesson. I have to relearn it but talking about it here has helped me a bit in that respect. And little by I am seeing myself a bit clearer as well as truly seeing the major role those important people in my life have played to help me overcome this tendency to be overly critical and not like myself so much. So though I am still at a loss how to get back to where I was just yet I can see how I am using this event as proof for my negative feelings to hang on. Interesting way to look at the fact our brains are creatures of habit. We do respond based on history but you have added a bit of depth to it.
That's quite the thing. I know they say it's love something something something, but if in fact hurt and fury or rage is there, then it will be felt. It doesn't feel like love and there's no reason to expect it will. I look and I like the fury, I admire it and I respect it. It doesn't need to be love, it needs to be whatever it really is.
And look man, I'm the self beating world heavyweight champion, but at least I excell at something.
Miss Hepburn
19-02-2013, 03:14 PM
You will never win the fight, what you are fighting is illusory,
there is only one true power, as long as we are fighting
we are giving our power to the illusory dream,
that we believe we are. Realize your true inner Being,
and the fight is over, its now seen for what it is,
an illusion.
~psychoslice
Excellent, like poetry.
psychoslice
19-02-2013, 10:07 PM
There is only self (what you are) that is of the mind so in that respect there is no true or false self there is only self .
You can only be aware of love in line with the awareness that one has of self . The selfish man and the selfless man have different awarenesses of the same self and what they relate love to be will reflect in their differences .
The only difference between the selfish and the selfless is what is mindfully perceived as the self to be .
In regards to awakening self there is only self to awaken .
Whats seems apparent is that certain mind sets experienced entertains a particular field of love and self reflection and each life experience had that is acknowledged as having a foundation of love on some level is likened to a key that opens the door to another mind set and to another understanding of what you are and to what is love . There are many doors to our lords mansions as the story goes and each door entered leads one to a further awakening of the self .
For sure robbie certain mind sets can be limiting where self and love are concerned and beyond mind it could be said that there is no self and nothing to know other than the love of what you are but to know of that love and the difference between the love of the mind and the love beyond mind one will have to be of the mind to know that ..
There needs someone present to relate to one’s understandings/realizations attained . What I do acknowledge is that what lies beyond can integrate an individuals awareness of the mind but how one translates what that is will be through various labels .. like love, self, God, truth, illusion and such likes .. (as you know) .
x daz x
Hi Daz, there is self of the mind, but there is also SELF which is beyonthe mind, this is where you are not understanding what I am trying to say, self consciousness is not the same as SELF Consciousness, big difference. On the mind level you are correct, but what I share is beyond the mind, I see where you are coming from, but can you see where I am coming?. This is not an argument of who is right and who is wrong, its just simply seeing two perspectives from two points of reality, where in truth their is only ONE.
I'm so different and I always wonder, because when a person comes to me with some issue or I have an issue, I don't belittle the thing with **** about illusions, rather I see it's important to someone and understand as best I can, but then again, I'm not in the preaching business... i just cry when my friends are sad and laugh with them when they're happy, and at all times I value how people feel, so I feel that preaching illusions merely invalidates a person and how they actually feel, and where people like that sort of thing, I dont... because I can see how meaningless it is, and also, the unethical nature of it.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 07:43 AM
Hi Daz, there is self of the mind, but there is also SELF which is beyonthe mind, this is where you are not understanding what I am trying to say, self consciousness is not the same as SELF Consciousness, big difference. On the mind level you are correct, but what I share is beyond the mind, I see where you are coming from, but can you see where I am coming?. This is not an argument of who is right and who is wrong, its just simply seeing two perspectives from two points of reality, where in truth their is only ONE.
Hi Rob .
I understand there is awareness of what you are beyond mind, but the 'self' is not aware of that for the self is mindful ..
The self is 'no more' beyond mind, there is no 'I' . or do you see that the self is not 'I' related .
Even for me to say that 'what you are' is beyond mind is a label derived in mind as a pointer to portray that there is a 'what you are'
This self that you say is beyond mind robbie .. what does it do? Is the self just being? How would the self know, for all knowings are mindful?
x daz x
God-Like
20-02-2013, 08:00 AM
This is not an argument of who is right and who is wrong, its just simply seeing two perspectives from two points of reality, where in truth their is only ONE.
Absolutely robbie, I agree it's just different understandings pointing to the same thing at the end of the day .. if the mind interprets and understands what they are in various states of existence then there is nothing 'wrong' with their interpretation ..:hug3:
p.s. I wouldn't argue with you ..you are a psycho remember :D
x daz x
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 08:33 AM
I'm so different and I always wonder, because when a person comes to me with some issue or I have an issue, I don't belittle the thing with **** about illusions, rather I see it's important to someone and understand as best I can, but then again, I'm not in the preaching business... i just cry when my friends are sad and laugh with them when they're happy, and at all times I value how people feel, so I feel that preaching illusions merely invalidates a person and how they actually feel, and where people like that sort of thing, I dont... because I can see how meaningless it is, and also, the unethical nature of it.
You are too caught up in your emotions, there running your life.
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 08:35 AM
Hi Rob .
I understand there is awareness of what you are beyond mind, but the 'self' is not aware of that for the self is mindful ..
The self is 'no more' beyond mind, there is no 'I' . or do you see that the self is not 'I' related .
Even for me to say that 'what you are' is beyond mind is a label derived in mind as a pointer to portray that there is a 'what you are'
This self that you say is beyond mind robbie .. what does it do? Is the self just being? How would the self know, for all knowings are mindful?
x daz x
The Self beyond the mind is not caught up in the things off the mind, its a whole different story, but you have to Realize this if we need to continue this discussion.
Of course there is wrong, I mean we've all been wrong before, like, get the wrong change at the shop and shopkeeper says, well it's just a different perspective... gosh
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 08:37 AM
You are too caught up in your emotions, there running your life.
Just what I was thinking about you, I am not caught up in anything, because I am free of all that ****.
Just what I was thinking about you, I am not caught up in anything, because I am free of all that ****.
Did you just quote yourself?^
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 08:42 AM
Did you just quote yourself?^
Whatever !.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 08:58 AM
The Self beyond the mind is not caught up in the things off the mind, its a whole different story, but you have to Realize this if we need to continue this discussion.
What I am getting at robbie is how does one evaluate that there is a self beyond mind . By what means??
Is there an 'I' that can relate to self beyond mind .
Can the self beyond mind acknowledge their own existence, does the self that you speak of beyond mind 'know' anything ..
What does this self beyond mind think that self is ..
Does this self know that this self is what it is?
x daz x
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 09:04 AM
What I am getting at robbie is how does one evaluate that there is a self beyond mind . By what means??
Is there an 'I' that can relate to self beyond mind .
Can the self beyond mind acknowledge their own existence, does the self that you speak of beyond mind 'know' anything ..
What does this self beyond mind think that self is ..
Does this self know that this self is what it is?
x daz x
Hi Daz, I really thought you would understand what I was trying to say, the true Self that is beyond the mind, is all that there IS, it doesn't have to do anything but be what it is. But unless you have at least tasted this what is beyond the mind, our conversation cannot really continue.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 09:06 AM
Of course there is wrong, I mean we've all been wrong before, like, get the wrong change at the shop and shopkeeper says, well it's just a different perspective... gosh
If an individual high on drugs starts seeing little green men then that is their perception .. 'they are seeing little green men'
It matters not if I don't see them .. Am I wrong if I say that they are not there? Is the man wrong when he say's he sees them?
I would say however one perceives is how they perceive ..
If everyone saw the universe through different coloured lenses then we would all be saying the world looks a particular way ..
x daz x
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 09:10 AM
If an individual high on drugs starts seeing little green men then that is their perception .. 'they are seeing little green men'
It matters not if I don't see them .. Am I wrong if I say that they are not there? Is the man wrong when he say's he sees them?
I would say however one perceives is how they perceive ..
If everyone saw the universe through different coloured lenses then we would all be saying the world looks a particular way ..
x daz x
Yes of course, but what is beyond the mind is not even describable, surely you know that, and this is all I am really saying, we are on ground that cannot be conceptualized.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 09:12 AM
Hi Daz, I really thought you would understand what I was trying to say, the true Self that is beyond the mind, is all that there IS, it doesn't have to do anything but be what it is. But unless you have at least tasted this what is beyond the mind, our conversation cannot really continue.
I am trying to understand robbie but you havent addressed how does one know that self exists beyond mind ..
I have spoken about awareness beyond mind but even awareness is just a mindful label to point towards what is beyond . The self is a label . The mind is a label . etc ..
Are you saying the self beyond mind is likened to awareness .
x daz x
God-Like
20-02-2013, 09:15 AM
Yes of course, but what is beyond the mind is not even describable, surely you know that, and this is all I am really saying, we are on ground that cannot be conceptualized.
I agree,
And that's what i have been speaking of a multitude of labels pointing towards what is of the mind and beyond .
The self that you speak of beyond is a label and to evaluate what self is one must be mindful .
To say there is a self beyond mind derives through mind .
How can there be a self beyond mind? If the self has derived through mind .
x daz x
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 09:28 AM
I agree,
And that's what i have been speaking of a multitude of labels pointing towards what is of the mind and beyond .
The self that you speak of beyond is a label and to evaluate what self is one must be mindful .
To say there is a self beyond mind derives through mind .
How can there be a self beyond mind? If the self has derived through mind .
x daz x
The self that is derived through the mind, is not the SELF, its a shadow of the SELF, of course whatever the mind perceives, is never what IS, that goes without saying. Its either you have experienced what is beyond the mind or you haven't experienced beyond the mind, if you haven't then this conversation is useless. That is not saying that one is better than the other, gee that would be childish, but to continue having this conversation, we must be on the same level, if we are not, then this will continue forever, getting nowhere lol.
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 09:41 AM
Anyway Daz, its been good to have this conversation with you, thank you.:hug3:
God-Like
20-02-2013, 09:47 AM
The self that is derived through the mind, is not the SELF, its a shadow of the SELF, of course whatever the mind perceives, is never what IS, that goes without saying.
.
I relate the self to be what we are that is of the mind . Self realization allows ‘one to know one’ as in ‘all that is of the mind is what you are’ . Oneness, sameness are evaluations made ‘of the mind’ that points to what is contained within self realization .
I understand that many can relate to shadow selves, higher and lower selves, physical selves, spirit selves etc, etc . Self realization enables one to perceive the same self in all of these so called varieties of self .
Its either you have experienced what is beyond the mind or you haven't experienced beyond the mind,
.
Who is this ‘you’ that has experienced beyond mind .. Did robbie experience beyond mind? If so how did robbie evaluate that he was beyond mind, if it was not robbie then whom? and how does this whom therefore know?
if you haven't then this conversation is useless. That is not saying that one is better than the other, gee that would be childish, but to continue having this conversation, we must be on the same level, if we are not, then this will continue forever, getting nowhere lol.
.
I have said that there was what I label ‘awareness’ beyond mind robbie but it was not ‘daz’ and it was not ‘I’ that was aware of awareness beyond self .
These are the key points I have put to you when you speak of the self beyond mind .. and yet they remain unanswered .. I can wholeheartedly speak with you all day robbie without any agenda other than I wish to speak with you .. but it will only keep going round in circles if you don’t address my key questions that will then help me understand certain things ..
x daz x
Whatever !.
There's things I understand that aren't easy to get, and making an assertion like you did isn't acceptable behaviour, and that's not my personal opinion, I don't give a rat's mostache, but parading around like an enlightened master and making suggestive assertions from that position is physhologically abusive. You don't understand that I know.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Anyway Daz, its been good to have this conversation with you, thank you.:hug3:
Yer .. its been good .. and its been a while ..
x daz x
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 09:53 AM
Hey Daz, beyond the mind cannot be conceptualized, I cannot talk about it, I can point to it, but that is all I can do. You are too stuck on the mind, forget about the mind, its not who you are. If you want to continue carrying on about the mind, well this is where I have to leave you. I cannot argue about the mind, its not my Reality, it may be yours, but again, not mine.
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 09:56 AM
There's things I understand that aren't easy to get, and making an assertion like you did isn't acceptable behaviour, and that's not my personal opinion, I don't give a rat's mostache, but parading around like an enlightened master and making suggestive assertions from that position is physhologically abusive. You don't understand that I know.
But do you understand ?, I don't think so, you see me as being arrogant, but that is your perception, I see you as I see my SELF, I don't put myself on a pedestal, if you see me as being that, well I just cannot help you, sorry Gem.
Whatever !.
You don't understand things so you don't recognize how parading around like an enlightened master and suggesting emotional flaw from that position is psychological abuse. I'm just telling you that it's a really bad thing to do. Others buy into that enlightenment **** and actually believe these kinds of assertions, and it's harmful to them. You won't understand it, but all I can do is say so.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 10:07 AM
Hey Daz, beyond the mind cannot be conceptualized, I cannot talk about it, I can point to it, but that is all I can do. You are too stuck on the mind, forget about the mind, its not who you are. If you want to continue carrying on about the mind, well this is where I have to leave you. I cannot argue about the mind, its not my Reality, it may be yours, but again, not mine.
I agree .. and yet you say there is a self beyond mind .. I was just fishing for an answer as to whom evaluated this and by what means did they do so ..
I agree that what you are within or of the mind can point to whats beyond ..
I find myself being aware of the mind at present I am not stuck within mind but I am aware that in order to converse and relate to beyond mind I can only do so from within it .. :tongue:
x daz x
But do you understand ?, I don't think so, you see me as being arrogant, but that is your perception, I see you as I see my SELF, I don't put myself on a pedestal, if you see me as being that, well I just cannot help you, sorry Gem.
I didn't say that... 'you're arrogant'... no one did and you made that up. You just have little idea about what you're doing, and I'm letting you know. Now you can try to put words in my nmouth or slur my psyche somehow or whatever you need to do, but I don't buy the enlightenment ****. To me you're just a bloke who live up in townsville.
I do understand and that's why I never say 'you're.... and state anyones condition' it's completely imoral to do that speshly in a public forum... so I simply wouldn't say 'you're arrogant.'
The funny thing is, people think I'm an aggressor I know that because on several occasions they pm me and tell me off, but actually it's the nice spiritual people who are like 'you're this' you're that' 'it's because of your fear' and other pshychological baloney.
Look at the thing what I say I read foucault and you get up like a preacher and presume to tell me something. What you did was invalidate what I said, not as a disagreement, but to use my personage as a to make your's the teacher, and that's another thing I understand, I don't tell people what to do.
When people want to pretend that their enlightenment has qualified them to assess other's psyche, and they imbue them with suggestion, I can see how inane it is, how harmful it is and how little they actually understand about people.
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 10:29 AM
I agree .. and yet you say there is a self beyond mind .. I was just fishing for an answer as to whom evaluated this and by what means did they do so ..
I agree that what you are within or of the mind can point to whats beyond ..
I find myself being aware of the mind at present I am not stuck within mind but I am aware that in order to converse and relate to beyond mind I can only do so from within it .. :tongue:
x daz x
No, you cannot know what is beyond the mind, by using the mind, its hard for me to describe this what is beyond the mind, and I wont even try. We can only leave it where it is at this moment, I will not be taken into arguing over something that can never be understood, by the mind.
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 10:37 AM
I didn't say that... 'you're arrogant'... no one did and you made that up. You just have little idea about what you're doing, and I'm letting you know. Now you can try to put words in my nmouth or slur my psyche somehow or whatever you need to do, but I don't buy the enlightenment ****. To me you're just a bloke who live up in townsville.
I do understand and that's why I never say 'you're.... and state anyones condition' it's completely imoral to do that speshly in a public forum... so I simply wouldn't say 'you're arrogant.'
The funny thing is, people think I'm an aggressor I know that because on several occasions they pm me and tell me off, but actually it's the nice spiritual people who are like 'you're this' you're that' 'it's because of your fear' and other pshychological baloney.
Look at the thing what I say I read foucault and you get up like a preacher and presume to tell me something. What you did was invalidate what I said, not as a disagreement, but to use my personage as a to make your's the teacher, and that's another thing I understand, I don't tell people what to do.
When people want to pretend that their enlightenment has qualified them to assess other's psyche, and they imbue them with suggestion, I can see how inane it is, how harmful it is and how little they actually understand about people.
He He, there is no one here pretending their Enlightened, well not me anyway lol,
I have never ever said that I as Robert was Enlightened, there was an experienced through Robert, this experiences was what is beyond the mind of Robert, but in fact had nothing to do with Robert. This is the best that I can describe what happened, I don't really care if you or anyone else see's that or not. Like you said, I'm just a bloke who lives up in townsville, so all I can say is, hi from Townsvile. This little Townsville guy is getting tiered, so I'm off to bed......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz................. ............
Michelle11
20-02-2013, 10:42 AM
If I am going to be honest all three of you, Gem Godlike and Psychoslice, you have all lost me.
God-Like
20-02-2013, 10:46 AM
No, you cannot know what is beyond the mind, by using the mind, its hard for me to describe this what is beyond the mind, and I wont even try.
And yet you said the self is beyond mind . This is my point of conversation had with you to ascertain how you derived at this .. and whom ascertained this ..
We can only leave it where it is at this moment, I will not be taken into arguing over something that can never be understood, by the mind.
I agree the self that is of the mind can only label and point to what lies beyond . I am not interested in arguing about anything robbie .. I am however interested in discussion .
Thanks again for the discussion .
x daz x
God-Like
20-02-2013, 11:03 AM
If I am going to be honest all three of you, Gem Godlike and Psychoslice, you have all lost me.
It can be a minefield for sure Michelle ..
There are so many individual perceptions being had where one relates to 'what they are'.. some perceive self to be something or nothing or everything lol .
Then from that point of understanding had one then begins to converse and relates to another's point of understanding .
x daz x
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 10:02 PM
If I am going to be honest all three of you, Gem Godlike and Psychoslice, you have all lost me.
He He, no worries I think I'm lost also lol.:icon_eek:
psychoslice
20-02-2013, 10:15 PM
And yet you said the self is beyond mind . This is my point of conversation had with you to ascertain how you derived at this .. and whom ascertained this ..
I agree the self that is of the mind can only label and point to what lies beyond . I am not interested in arguing about anything robbie .. I am however interested in discussion .
Thanks again for the discussion .
x daz x
Hi Daz, The Self that is beyond the mind is your true Reality, you can call it God, Consciousness, whatever, but whatever you call it isn't what IS. This was experienced through the mind body organism called Robbie, but Robbie had nothing to do with it. The experience is secondary to what is beyond the mind, this Consciousness that is beyond the mind can never be known by Robbie, or the mind of Robbie.
I myself never will argue or discuss what is beyond the mind, for the simple reason that it cannot be discussed, or ever known, it can only be expeiencec, tasted. But just to experience this is enough to set one free from the illusionary prison, the prison that so many are trying to find away out of. This is all I can share, I cannot go any further, I am all that there IS, what more can I say???.
God-Like
21-02-2013, 08:03 AM
Hi Daz, The Self that is beyond the mind is your true Reality, you can call it God, Consciousness, whatever, but whatever you call it isn't what IS. This was experienced through the mind body organism called Robbie, but Robbie had nothing to do with it. The experience is secondary to what is beyond the mind, this Consciousness that is beyond the mind can never be known by Robbie, or the mind of Robbie.
I myself never will argue or discuss what is beyond the mind, for the simple reason that it cannot be discussed, or ever known, it can only be expeiencec, tasted. But just to experience this is enough to set one free from the illusionary prison, the prison that so many are trying to find away out of. This is all I can share, I cannot go any further, I am all that there IS, what more can I say???.
I agree robbie labeling anything won't reflect or point to 'what it is' that one is labeling or in reflection of .
It matters not really if something or nothing or self is within mind or beyond mind either for any mindful labels at the end of the day are not what there labels suggests .. or even points to ..
Its all a construct of the mind ..
but what one has constructed within mind allows one to function and communicate in a particular way so these labels and pointers are just that ..
Pointing to what one has created within mind .
x daz x
psychoslice
21-02-2013, 08:37 AM
I agree robbie labeling anything won't reflect or point to 'what it is' that one is labeling or in reflection of .
It matters not really if something or nothing or self is within mind or beyond mind either for any mindful labels at the end of the day are not what there labels suggests .. or even points to ..
Its all a construct of the mind ..
but what one has constructed within mind allows one to function and communicate in a particular way so these labels and pointers are just that ..
Pointing to what one has created within mind .
x daz x
Hi Daz my friend, with that I agree, well what a wonderful discussion we have had, I quite enjoyed it.:hug3:
7luminaries
23-02-2013, 08:38 PM
Funny that I just posted something in the Twin souls Section...
Titled " How to be a magnet...to love and others".
This is my 2 cents...
There, I told of something I was taught and did with a huge success rate.
It had to do with reprogramming your subconscious mind, sort of an auto- suggestion, repeated aloud, while very relaxed.
Only briefly here:
"The more I, Robert, love myself the more others will love me.
The more you, Robert, love yourself the more others will love you.
The more he, Robert, loves himself the more others will love him.".....times 10.
Relaxing, breathing easily, maybe in a recliner....you say this for,say, a week...
In doing so, eventually this question comes up of, "How do I love myself."
Well, how do you love anyone or even a pet. You will naturally find that you want to make them comfortable and happy...so you find yourself relaxing more into the chair...enjoying the chair....your breathing becomes more pleasurable and on and on, you enjoy and feel your walking is different...tasting food is more enjoyable because you are loving yourself...just as you want a loved one to enjoy the food you just made them or the gift you just bought them....but you are loving 'you'.
Knowing who and what you are is so important...for example, I know I am God's beloved creature, daughter...I know "He" wants my love...I can't love my Creator if I am feeling guilt, anger, jealousy, indignation, etc...just as you can't love a dog or your partner if they are feeling guilt, fear, anger, etc.
It is our duty, imo, to realize who we are so we can feel the Love from our Source or Father God, that is within and without us everywhere wanting to shower us with anything we want, ask for and believe will be given or manifested
Many ways to say the same thing according to a person's preferences.
To not love yourself and be open to the love meant for you, us...is what is called sin, meaning 'missing the mark'.
Imo.
First Miss H this is a lovely mantra...simple yet very moving and effective.
Many of us, if not most, could stand to give more love to ourselves, and being open to the love that is meant for us is a necessary part of that.
Second, re: your sig quote, would it be alright if I just sometimes rode on the balloon of divine perception daily, instead of riding within it? :D
That just sounds amazing :hug3:
Peace & blessings,
7L
7luminaries
23-02-2013, 08:42 PM
What I have realized is, its not learning to love yourself, but remembering who you truly are, and that is love itself. Love isn't something to be found outside of yourself, or from someone else, love is simply who you are, everything came from love, and one day will return to love. Love is the Source, its like the ocean where all the rivers run into, and where all the rivers will continue from. Find who you truly are, and there you will remember love.
Love isn't something to be known, its what you are, I don't like the word love myself, like its just too tarnished, to over used. In fact forget the word love and just be yourself, don't try and be something your not. If you are yourself, this so called love will just naturally shine, you will then see this shinning in others. Anyone who comes to you who are not their true self, will not be able to stay very long. They would be far too neurotic to be able to be around you, they wouldn't get away with their neurotic behavior, and this is because of their ego realizing that it will be caught out.
Don't try to be love, don't try to be anything, just be you, that is all you will ever need to do.
Agreed...lovely words, and very well said IMO.
Authenticity is the hallmark of the soul, and its true nature, which is love.
:hug3:
Peace & blessings,
7L
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