Shame

[Emmalevine]

It;s interesting how we can function on different levels. I feel I've grown and changed a lot emotionally and intellectually and feel a greater amount of inner peace. But recently I've become aware of an issue about my body that is so deeply tucked away that I had forgotten just how massive it is.

It's an area of such incredible shame for me that I have spoken to absolutely nobody about it. Rationally I know it's not really a big deal but emotionally I feel complete horror, fear and disgust with myself...which all translates into one of the biggest human feelings..shame.

In my case it stems from childhood when I was made to feel alone and - yes - shamed for my issue. It was something to hide at all costs and for many years I have done. I can't even write it here it's that bad. This is despite knowing that I'm more than this body and in feeling this way I'm identified with the shame and made it my shame, my body, my story. But the pain is very real. The shame is all emcompassing, as shame tends to be.

I hope that over time I'll feel less ashamed of my body. Bit by bit I am trying to take my issue out of the darkness, give it a voice, give it a part of the Divine spark that I am illuminating this form. It's a childhood issue, one that was never accepted, never reassured, never told 'it's part of the imperfectations we all have.' Instead, I felt like a human monster. Sad, but true.

I am trying to let it go.

Just wanted to share my feelings today.

[knightofalbion]

Sorry to hear your story, dear Starbuck.

Man is spirit in a physical body. The spirit within is the real you.

NOBODY is perfect. We all have some faults for want of a better word, real or imagined. In the long run, it doesn't matter a jot.

Some people think they're God's gift, even when they aren't! It makes them arrogant, selfish, obnoxious and downright insufferable. From the spiritual viewpoint, who would want to be like that?

Often God puts the most beautiful spirits in the most comprised bodies.
Usually their experience awakens in them heightened qualities of humility, compassion, empathy and understanding. Wonderful spiritual qualities.
The light within has to battle to break through, but when it does it shines all the more beautifully.

Regardless of what 'you' look like, regardless of your faults and failings, when there is love in your heart and kindness in your actions, you are beautiful - beautiful in the highest expression of the word.

In the afterlife, one's spirit body reflects the light within...All will come right.

[Gem]

Ok then, never an easy one, best wishes for you.

[Emmalevine]

Thank you both, appreciate the thoughts and best wishes.

Maybe one day I'll look back and realise I was making a massive deal out of nothing but to me right now this IS a massive deal, probably more so because it's been hidden and I have been shamed for it.

I'm writing this today because it feels like a step forward that I can even admit my shame, not run or hide from it.

I know firsthand now what it's like to confront shame and what an incredibly overwhelming and illogical experience it is.

[knightofalbion]

Yes, a first step and a cathartic experience. Whatever 'it' is, it doesn't matter. Let it go...

A lesson for life: Be kind to others....and also, when it is necessary, be kind to yourself

[Belle]

Starbuck I feel for you as I deal with shame - resulting out of my own experiences as feeling deeply ashamed of various things I have no need to.

The way I worked it - it was very much an inner child work. I said to my inner child that it was ok to feel ashamed, and that was normal but actually there was no judgment, that I did the best I could / nothing wrong, -- you can write your own script. At first it was really hard but it is getting easier and as I work the process, I find event after event where i felt really rubbish as a child emerges in front of my eyes, and all that needs to happen is for me to say to myself "well, that's ok and you are ok to feel like that but let me love you all the more for x y z".

I don't know if that resonates to you. It's less about letting go, it's more about embracing the experience / whatever and yourself in the process.

[Mr Interesting]

Hey Starbuck, it may bear pondering the idea that the shame itself is more important than what it actually represents. That the shame is a lesson you've found for yourself, made for yourself which is worthy of your inherent strength to overcome. So that which is the trigger, the physical or mental attribute, as it were, isn't the shameful thing... but is representative.

It's only a suggestion but this way you can accept the physical and part out the shame as a device with roots in a wider context of self which would make it somewhat easier to dismantle.

[Emmalevine]

Thanks Knightofalbion for the reminder - I agree that is important.

Belle I agree it's probably inner child work because that is where the shame originated, although the particular problem I have is very real and continues to affect me. Sadly I felt shamed for it so I never learnt to feel okay with myself, warts and all (not that my problem is warts!). Yes I think you're right about enbracing the experience.

My Interesting - Yes I like what you say too about the shame being more important than the issue. They can be hard to separate because I feel so terrible about the issue I have and it's affected a lot of my life, if I'm honest, even when I was trying to hide it from myself and other people. Acceptance seems to be key and I'm trying to do that.

[Mr.Funk]

Hey Starbuck !

Check out a book called "Hold Your Head Up High" by Dr Paul Hauck, its a nice book about learning to let go of guilt, shame & all kinds negative emotions.

[CrystalSong]

Some say we choose certain body 'issues' as a classroom for important aspects of our souls to use for development.

Let's say that construct is true for the moment, if it were true, what could you learn from this that would elevate your spirit/soul to higher levels?
What great soul lesson can you walk away from this with that makes you a more loving, tolerant, compassion filled being?

[Bluegreen]

Where did the feeling of shame come from? It must have originated somewhere. A person feels shame when he thinks something about himself is not 'normal' (=according to society's norms) or when something about him is pointed out as wrong.

Sometimes children take seriously something said in gest.

It is not something that you came up with all by yourself.

Your shame is probably part of being human and perhaps you can accept it as such and get rid of it. I hope so.

[Seawolf]

If I'm not mistaken that's known as body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) and can be had in different degrees of severity.

From wiki: Often BDD co-occurs with emotional depression and anxiety, social withdrawal or social isolation.[3]

So you're not alone, lots of people get treated for it. I have it to a lesser degree, along with several other emotional issues. Personally I don't mind realizing my 'problems' because then I can do something about it. Before I had no idea why I was so messed up and therefore was powerless to change anything.

[Tobi]

Starbuck, I am so sorry you are carrying this pain.
It's easy to say "love and accept ourselves", but that can be hard to do in the face of deep-seated emotions which go back a long way.
But a new viewpoint might (might?) help?

Imagine this physical thing about which you have felt deep shame for a long time suddenly wasn't you at all...but was in the body of a little child -your own child- that you love so dearly...a part of you, you were twin souls, the love was deep and immense.
Then imagine the heartfelt compassion, the hugs, the attempts you would make to let that little child now he/she was SO loved, in spite of any physical imperfections. That real love would melt away any negative feelings or shame the child was feeling. The child would begin to grow up feeling loved and accepted.

Now turn that into YOU. Put your hands over your heart, feel that pang of love, let the tears flow, feel the love, send it to that little child you love so much inside you. Say "it's OK, don't you worry about a thing. I love you and I'm going to look after you, and you're never going to feel any shame again because I am not ashamed of you! You're beautiful to me and always will be."

Blessings for your healing.

[Ivy]

I have a theory...that shame can only develop during the cognitive process of childhood.

People may say in adulthood, that they are 'ashamed', but that is really guilt. Shame is harder to deal with (or release), because it is an aspect of the child, that shows most significantly in adulthood.

But that is all useless theory :hug2: However, it does relate to the practical tasks that I have found helped me. I seperate child from adult; in this way, I let the child me have her voice and her emotions...but I react to her as an adult and a mother: I give her nurturing love; I accept her hurt and give her a hug; I smile at her and make her laugh...and so allow myself to be a child, but a child recieving care and compassion.

In this way, instead of the illusional shame destroying me, my adult self found that I want to protect the child and give her confidence etc.

There is no one way, but this seperation of child/adult has helped me with feelings of shame.

[Nameless]

Here's a little something I thought of while I was reading through these (actually 2 things).

Soul love has a life-changing meditation in the beginning of the book about meeting your "selves" - those parts of us that we choose to disregard, that we don't even know we carry around with us, that we bury so we don't have to take them out and look at them - it is really beautiful. I still haven't read very far in that book, I get stuck on this one everytime. Can't tell you how many selves I have done this with, but each time I take back a piece of my self and now I feel whole. I have never felt completed whole before, and I recommend it.

Another thought is, think about it another way. If someone were to post on this website that they had the same issue, would you tell them they have to be ashamed of it? That they should feel shame? If you wouldn't advise a stranger to feel shame about it, then be kind to yourself as well......

there is no shame but what society tells us there is, forever more, amen. But who made these ridiculous rules anyway?

Be easy on yourself. You are worthy of your love.

Light.

[Cristina]

Hi Starbuck!!

I am not a psychiatrist... on this share of yours, I almost get the feeling that 'shame' is far deeper seeked than most other emotions.... So, it will take some adjustments in your mental interpretation of the root of the problem and, then forgiving/understanding on a higher spiritual basis... yourself and all others involved in letting this root grow within you into something bigger that defined you to such a level....

First off - YOU are not the shame or pain... it is a feeling you have carried into this world and find in yourself to heal now... Do this?? Heal yourself... You are aware enough now to take such measures.. Who you are in not your body... This almost reminds me of someone who is obese or skinny with body issues but, it is far removed from the public doing this to you... You and your family let this seed take root... Take a look at this differently - if you had your own child with this, how would you safeguard that child and make sure they flourished 'in spite of it all'...

If I were you - I would do writing... crying.... let whatever is in you out... the end result is to understand, forgive and re-construct in yourself a better definition of your journey of a soul.... what I mean by this is 'what were you learning... what would you soul be learning by experiencing this in this lifetime'... Here you are being asked to think 'higher' as if this was planned - you came with this challenge in mind and have all the resources within you to WIN and change your perceptions thru self-love, forgiveness and acceptance...

I hope some of what I wrote resonates with you.. I am sorry for the pain you have described that has been present.. but, do understand that 'pain is in the mind'.. You are beautiful - beauty is of the soul and its essence.. Don't you think as much?? Find your inner love and let it grow/flourish... :)

Much love to you!!

Cristina

[Emmalevine]

Thanks so much for the kindness and thoughts everyone!

It's not Body Dysmorphic disorder, I know that. I'm upset about a specific and real problem I have, not a percieved one. I'm reasonably happy about the rest of my body so it's not a generalised issue. I think the shame about it originated because of comments made by my family at the time and a sense that it was disgusting and needed to be covered up. I grew up realising my issue wasn't 'normal' as such and shouldn't be talked about or made open.

I am trying to love and accept myself, including my problem. I know I'd feel differently if someone with the same problem told me about it. Or would I? I'm really not sure.

Maybe I need to grieve in a sense...look at what's underneath the shame and try to detach the problem from it and see it in a new light.

Really appreciate the kind words Cristina and everyone else.

[Native spirit]

:hug: Hey Starbuck.


Its a shame that perents say such things that make you feel you have problems when the problem lies with them not you. look to the person you are your spirit is pure, but you have made the first step of getting rid of the problem by posting it here.we all have issues with our bodies at some point but if we were all the same the world would be a boring place,its our uniqness that makes us different and thats a good thing. Sending healing thoughts to you.

Namaste

[EyeaM]

Thanks for sharing Starbuck. I know exactly how you feel, I struggle with pretty much the same issue right now and I feel better that I'm not alone, thank you & best wishes to you sister.

We will do this!! :hug2:

Light up the darkness.

[Seawolf]

Thanks so much for the kindness and thoughts everyone!

It's not Body Dysmorphic disorder, I know that. I'm upset about a specific and real problem I have, not a percieved one.
You never know, it may be something very trivial. Unless a chicken is growing out of your back or something it probably is trivial. I have the problem of making a big deal out of little things about my body, which is a mild form of BDD. I don't care what it's called. All I know is it goes back to my childhood, and that's good because I can allow love to that hurting child inside.

[Sojourner2013]

I find shame and guilt fascinating because we are not born with those feelings. We slowly learn them depending upon our upbringing and the leadership figures that "teach" us the rules of life. To me, shame is a result of accepting responsibility for someone's else "rules" for living as our own rules, when in fact they aren't and don't belong to our soul. Same with guilt: accepting the responsibility for someone else's happiness when it should never belong with anyone else but that person's responsibility. Look at the "rules" that you've accepted as your own and determine if they are yours or someone else's. if they are not yours, figure out your own or make new ones. Best wishes! Self-awareness is such a difficult but necessary growth process.

[Emmalevine]

Thank you so much Native Spirit, Eyeam and Seawolf for your kind thoughts. Had to smile Seawolf when I read your post - no it's nothing as dramatic as that fortunately! Maybe you're right about the BDD but as you say whatever the label it's painful and goes back to childhood shame. I think being able to love the child inside is a wonderful step forward and hopefully I will do that too.

[Emmalevine]

So true Sojourner - shame is something that is conditioned into us. It seems to relate to The Fall - the collective shame of humanity once we develop an ego and begin to compare ourselves to others. As a child I knew very well that part of me wasn't 'normal' so I did this and I had no one to reassure me that I was okay, very far from it. As an adult the task lies in undoing the shame and knowing others have this problem too and it's okay!

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Starbuck, there is no shame in being different.
Does a bush feel shame that it is not a tree? I don't think so.
To my mind, shame seems linked to guilt. Guilt is responsibility for wrongness.
I see no reason to assign blame for unusual body types/issues.
"Not the norm" is not wrong. There are people with excessive body hair (hypertrichosis); people with webbed digits (syndactyly);
short people; tall people; & et cetera. Nowhere in this mix do I see a cause for shame... because none of these things is "wrong".

Shame is uncomfortable, and you are brave to be dealing with it. (Many of us prefer to suppress and ignore it.)
I suspect that you have tied your identity somehow to this feeling of shame -- you recognise yourself,
at least partially, through this emotional "touchstone". If so, you won't want to purge this feeling,
you'll likely be "more whole" if you can redeem it instead.
In your healing process, realise that societies approval is inconsequential and meaningless;
the judgements of others as to your worth have no bearing on your value as a being.

[please note that I am a layman, and that all opinions expressed by me are for "entertainment purposes" only]

[Emmalevine]

Thanks Horace, your comments and suggestions have a lot of value.

I'm really pleased to say I'm working through this and have spoken to a few people openly about the issue which I have hid for so long. Even more incredible is that I spoke to my mother about it (she has the same issue) last night and we talked so normally. I don't think she has any idea how her words/actions and also those of others led me to hide myself and feel so much shame for so long. I think I internalised her own shame and the fact she didn't want to see that I had the same thing so it was never talked about.

[Belle]

Starbuck I'm really pleased you are talking about it - that is fantastic.

I remember once talking about a deep shame to a boyfriend of the time, I still carry the shame to a degree. His response was transforming: "You have done nothing wrong".

I hope those words bring you a peace. I know, it is somewhat easy to say and can be frustrating if you find yourself thinking "I know that but that is how I feel". If that is the case, please disregard them for the now, and leave them to a time when you might be able to connect with the fact that you have done nothing wrong.

I'm also always astounded by the number of people who carry a "shame" in some respects. It is so sad, and yes I do - a work in progress and probably something I will always have to address in my life, but I have found that there is somewhat a layer of the onion with my shame and buried beneath are other issues which can then be addressed. But it gets easier.

Your first steps open up a wealth of opportunity to be the person you truly are - stick with it and make sure you have good people around you to support you in these early embryonic days as you flex new muscles in your psyche.

[Emmalevine]

Thanks Belle. I'm glad you could share what you did with your ex boyfriend as well. I know how hard it can be. Yes, it's important to know I've done nothing wrong as I've felt 'wrong' to some extent all my life. I used to say to people I wish I could ring God and ask him if I'm doing okay. I've always felt flawed on some level. This isn't really because of my body issue, just a deep sense of being wrong I've always carried, probably because of my upbringing.

As you say, it's a work in progress. It was a massive step for me to ring my mother and approach this subject. It was the most amazing feeling to talk openly about something I've kept hidden all my life through shame.

[Emmalevine]

Just want to write some stuff out.

I'm realising that what I've dealt with most of my life is shame.

I never put that label on it before but that's exactly what it is. Previously I might have said sadness, grief, loneliness, isolation, grew up too fast, abandoned, lost, rejected and more.

But underneath it all, the really deep underlining feeling is shame. What I mean by shame is feeling I am not okay as a person, that there is something badly wrong with me inside. This started with a physcial shame (my appearance and how this links to my parents) but it extends into shame about who I am emotionally, mentally and even spiritually.

A lot of things have gone 'wrong' for me in life, at least in my view. I have felt, both consciously and unconsciously, that I have screwed up big time. I have failed in life just as life has failed me. I've got it all wrong.

I never had someone to tell me I'm okay or to normalise my very natural feelings and worries. I never had someone to tell me it wasn't my fault that my child is disabled and that I am. On the contrary, I have been told countless times that both those things are my own fault, even by professionals who believe in the law of attraction, karma, choosing our life paths and in the case of illness, positive thinking, energy blockages, EFT and the like. Maybe those things are true, but they added to the shame I already felt and did nothing to change my situation.

I am so full of grief for the person I've been, the shame I've carried, because now I see it for what it is and the devastation it has caused. I am trying to feel compassion for the things that have happened to me that I've blamed myself for. Even lesser things like how everything went wrong on my wedding day and that I nearly died during giving birth. I thought those were a reflection of the badness in me too.

I am trying to believe that I'm doing the best I can despite my background and my life. And that others are too, mostly. Because when I can accept that I'm human with flaws but that there's no need to feel ashamed of them, I can hopefully extend this to others and feel compassion for them too because as hard as it is to accept sometimes, we're all made of the same 'stuff.' As human beings we make choices, but most of us do what we can with the cards we've been dealt.

I wish no one had to feel shame. I wish we all had someone who could say 'you're okay.' I wish someone had said those words to me when I was younger and saved me years of emotional hell. I wish I could go back and tell the child me that she's doing the best she can. I guess I'm grieving for what I went through all over again, yet deeper. It's hard http://www.twhjforums.com/g/Smileys/default/cry.gif

[Belle]

Starbuck your post touches my heart. It resonates with me deeply in many ways and I would say that your passage of time is something that is very familiar with a lot of people. What marks you out as special is that you are having the courage to look at it and deal with it - rather than reject it outright.

It feels to me that you are getting closer to the true nature of your heart, that you have gone through the layers of sadness, grief, loneliness, lost, rejection - and below those layers was a sense of shame. And that shame in the child was looking for someone to say "no, you have done nothing wrong" but all that happened was that sense of shame was endorsed by others and it has become a part of you.

You now have an opportunity to heal it, by realising it, you have come a long way to know it. Other emotions (it seems to me) to be peripheral to the core of the problem, which is the sense of shame.

Which, as you know logically, is something you don't need to have.

It's a very very hard journey to work with this one and what I would expect you might find is that it is the child in you that needs to be told, by the adult you, that actually they are very beautiful and perfect. This will take a while, you are exercising a muscle and a right that you don't believe is natural and so I would expect you will want to reject it. There may well be anger associated with it, allow that to come and I don't know how you work with anger, I find writing helpful and also a good stamping bit of outdoors stuff.

I too have grief and sadness for the "lost years". The years that I thought I was a lesser person, the years that I thought that I shouldn't have kids because it wouldn't be fair on them to have such a lousy mom as me, the years that I shouldn't even have a relationship as no-one would want to put up with my great limitations. Utterly ridiculous.

I can't turn the clock back but I can work on the future. I used to consider those who rubber-stamped my feelings with a massive anger - "how very dare they behave like this". Now, I'm learning a compassion - as there was very much a transference of their "stuff" to my "stuff". I have also taken responsibility to how I feel, sure as a child the boundaries are blurred but it does take two - the adult gives the feeling and the child takes it and carries it and then doesn't let go. Very very understandable.

There may be a karmic association - I don't know. What I would say is that - that was not you. You are you, and forgive the pastness that bought it through - if that were the case.

I would be lying if I said I thought this were a quick fix. But, by acknowledging it so openly and courageously and honestly, I would suspect you are further down the line of your healing than you know.

I wish I could go back and tell the child me that she's doing the best she can.

It's never too late to say that to the child that is part of you. I get hit by countless childhood memories and I cringe - and then I have to re-think the situation - what would the child like to hear, and i have to be the adult to the me-child and say those things to her, to relive the experiences, over and over again. The experiences are still there, and they can be perceived differently.

[Emmalevine]

Thanks so much for your thoughts Belle.

I agree most of us carry shame on some level and it takes time to work through. I'm sorry that some of your experiences and decisions have caused such pain. I do feel that for me shame is really the crux of it all and perhaps, if I may be so bold, even the crux of humanity's problem linked to 'The Fall'. There are some people who feel absolutely okay with who they are but I'd say the majority are probably in a similar boat or at least were in the past.

I do feel this is a deeper layer of grief that will hopefully let me go. I don't want to analyse it too much except that I feel intuitively more than anything that once I have felt the shame and let it go I may be able to let my childhood go, again on a deeper level, as to a large extent I already had.

I'm also aware that I'm holding onto my 'story' as they say of how everything goes wrong for me. I'm not going to reject that as it's how I feel but at the same time I hope that dealing with the underlying shame will ease the pain that is reinforcing this thought.

I love my son very much and I also, in a way, love my body despite my ill health and the physical shame, for it has brought me here and done the best it could. I had a period of much better health and I am grateful for that. There's a lot to be thankful for as much as it's been so very hard.

Yes I cringe when I think back to myself as a child, how withdrawn I was, no friends and stuttering when I speak. But given my circumstances I can't really be surprised I was like that. And on some level I can't blame the other kids for reacting how they did to me for they believed I didn't want to know them.

[Nameless]

I wish no one had to feel shame. I wish we all had someone who could say 'you're okay.' I wish someone had said those words to me when I was younger and saved me years of emotional hell. I wish I could go back and tell the child me that she's doing the best she can. I guess I'm grieving for what I went through all over again, yet deeper. It's hard http://www.twhjforums.com/g/Smileys/default/cry.gif - Starbuck

Well, I know of a beautiful meditation where you can tell the child that is you that she's okay. It's a "do it yourselfer" in a book called Soul Love, by Sanaya Roman. It is in the first chaper. (This is channeled material, so if your not into that, that's okay.) But it helped heal me in so many ways, and I did this one meditation for at least six different "selves". Fearful self, doubting self, etc. etc. What I did was read a sentence, put the book down and visualize doing that, then picked the book up again and read the next sentence, and on and on. It takes as long as it takes, because you ask your "self" to tell you whatever they want to tell you, and that takes awhile by itself - I would say it took me between 1/2 hour and an hour for each one, and I did not do any at the same time. I did do 3 in 3 days once, one day did one, the next another one, but that's a lot and I think I should have spaced them out farther. But I gathered all my "energy" back to myself doing this, I highly recommend it. I knew I had a few childhood issues, but I had NO IDEA how many I had LOL! It is beautiful, and you get to call the Angels to help this child, and don't really want to give it away, but it is very loving and soothing and there is no fear that I felt doing any of these. Very amazing.

Light.

[Emmalevine]

Thanks for the recommendation Nameless -I'm open to most things!

[Belle]

Thanks Starbuck.

I'm a lot further forwards than I was a month ago, two months ago and I can see it very very objectively. Also, I think that these experiences have shaped me perhaps for the better (some would disagree)! But it's brought me to where I am and actually, if I make the positive choices for myself and in the face of the mental opposition, how much more powerful are they than if I am gifted these positive thoughts from others.

[Cristina]

Just want to write some stuff out.

I'm realising that what I've dealt with most of my life is shame.

I never put that label on it before but that's exactly what it is. Previously I might have said sadness, grief, loneliness, isolation, grew up too fast, abandoned, lost, rejected and more.

But underneath it all, the really deep underlining feeling is shame. What I mean by shame is feeling I am not okay as a person, that there is something badly wrong with me inside. This started with a physcial shame (my appearance and how this links to my parents) but it extends into shame about who I am emotionally, mentally and even spiritually.

A lot of things have gone 'wrong' for me in life, at least in my view. I have felt, both consciously and unconsciously, that I have screwed up big time. I have failed in life just as life has failed me. I've got it all wrong.

I never had someone to tell me I'm okay or to normalise my very natural feelings and worries. I never had someone to tell me it wasn't my fault that my child is disabled and that I am. On the contrary, I have been told countless times that both those things are my own fault, even by professionals who believe in the law of attraction, karma, choosing our life paths and in the case of illness, positive thinking, energy blockages, EFT and the like. Maybe those things are true, but they added to the shame I already felt and did nothing to change my situation.

I am so full of grief for the person I've been, the shame I've carried, because now I see it for what it is and the devastation it has caused. I am trying to feel compassion for the things that have happened to me that I've blamed myself for. Even lesser things like how everything went wrong on my wedding day and that I nearly died during giving birth. I thought those were a reflection of the badness in me too.

I am trying to believe that I'm doing the best I can despite my background and my life. And that others are too, mostly. Because when I can accept that I'm human with flaws but that there's no need to feel ashamed of them, I can hopefully extend this to others and feel compassion for them too because as hard as it is to accept sometimes, we're all made of the same 'stuff.' As human beings we make choices, but most of us do what we can with the cards we've been dealt.

I wish no one had to feel shame. I wish we all had someone who could say 'you're okay.' I wish someone had said those words to me when I was younger and saved me years of emotional hell. I wish I could go back and tell the child me that she's doing the best she can. I guess I'm grieving for what I went through all over again, yet deeper. It's hard http://www.twhjforums.com/g/Smileys/default/cry.gif

This above was written from your heart.... re-read and feel it.... reach above and beyond and look at this writing as a child you need to nurture and heal YOU.. Look to how you can re-shape and validate your own thoughts and the feelings you deserve to have about yourself.... My dear --- you are well on your way... :smile: It is truly a GIFT that you can change this in yourself and understand the path of others in similar situations... Find the love - it is there!! Nobody has it perfect and right - there is NO SUCH THING>>> Love you regardless and others will see your light... :hug2:

[Louisa]

Shame seems to be a recurring issue for me, too, and I keep finding new ways to deal with it or get past it but then I am in the shame boat again, as new layers get peeled back or new challenges throw me backwards again or steepen the challenges that I must face. Shame is ongoing because shame is an external projection from others, so I can't just say, no they're not going to shame me, if I'm around others I have to keep reinforcing my self-esteem to remind myself that I am not the shame they are trying to saddle me with. I don't know if others find a way to finally be resistant to the shame altogether, but I am worlds away from that. I still am influenced by others' thoughts and feelings and behaviors. But I think that is good too, it's a flip side of being open, and empathic and intuitive, for me, at least, I think.

Anyway, sometimes in the past I have found humor helps me. I intentionally try to be goofy, sound dumb, act corny. Let others act and feel superior if they wish. To be able to laugh at oneself; because they laugh in a ridiculing way, while I'm laughing "with" myself and reminding myself of what's important and what's not; let them think you're stupid, corny, or flippant, but pointedly act counter to the whole gloom and doom, shame and trying to play the "normal" acceptable role - that's what I do sometimes just to remind myself to take myself and others' judgments less seriously. Letting go of the need to act serious, mature, smart, "normal" etc. and just having fun, remembering what matters under all the masks, judgment and competing.
I'm still trying to remember to do this more, it's not always easy or applicable, but I thought I'd share it, in case it might be useful in your situation.

[Cristina]

Hi Louisa... I read this just a few minutes ago and felt like - you know so much and yet there is something you are missing so, I hopefully can get that across to you here... Only if it resonates with you, of course..

Shame seems to be a recurring issue for me, too, and I keep finding new ways to deal with it or get past it (we don't go around.. we go thru it.. think on this..) but then I am in the shame boat again, as new layers get peeled back or new challenges throw me backwards again or steepen the challenges that I must face. Ok... so, it keeps coming back to you... I like the fact that you think you are peepling layers off but then again you say they 'shame' challenges steepen so, it makes me wonder whether you are truly moving beyond it or just setting it aside. All that happens to us in life - all that comes our way is there to teach us something - the lesson - and, this is for you to pass and move on... until you fully pass it, it will keep showing up... and, it is not about others - it is about YOU... others cannot trigger anything in us unless it is there to be triggered.. and, in a sense, it is their job to do so... so, we clear it up and change... Shame is ongoing because shame is an external projection from others (if it was external only, you would not be feeling it) , so I can't just say, no they're not going to shame me, if I'm around others I have to keep reinforcing my self-esteem to remind myself that I am not the shame they are trying to saddle me with. See here - they are not doing it... they are there to open you up and change... move away... why does this keep happening??!?! It is in you for you to feel and get to the root or source of that feeling and 'clean it up'!! And, no - you are right about YOU ARE NOT SHAME>>> Shame is an emotion that comes from an experience we have here in the linear... it can be reawakened from a past experience or one in this lifetime... but, you have this to clear up today... I don't know if others find a way to finally be resistant to the shame altogether, Some of us never feel it.. but I am worlds away from that. sorry... and, resistant is a form of 'control'... you don't need to resist anything if it doesn't exist in you... I still am influenced by others' thoughts and feelings and behaviors. aaaaahhh... here it is... you do not know who you are... your essence on your own... so, you look outside yourself for your identity and people well - they can't give you that - they give you what they have and no more... it is not their job to validate you... it is your job!! But I think that is good too, it's a flip side of being open, and empathic and intuitive, for me, at least, I think. I am open, empathic and intuitive- it is very very easy to get lost in that world of others where others intrigue us... we go inside... we get confused what is ours and what is theirs... we take on their problems.... that world my dear is full of learning and, a gift but to be used very very carefully by us... It is not so easy!!

Anyway, sometimes in the past I have found humor helps me. I love humor... I intentionally try to be goofy, sound dumb, act corny. Let others act and feel superior if they wish. Are you being YOU or are you acting???? To be able to laugh at oneself; because they laugh in a ridiculing way, while I'm laughing "with" myself and reminding myself of what's important and what's not; let them think you're stupid, corny, or flippant, but pointedly act counter to the whole gloom and doom, shame and trying to play the "normal" acceptable role - that's what I do sometimes just to remind myself to take myself and others' judgments less seriously. Ooooohhh... this is a bit of a game for you... be careful... just act yourself... if you are around people that are judging and feel this is the way you need to be than perhaps you need to re-think it... a friend will love you for you... and sometimes when we judge others it is really a judgement about ourself... in our way, we cope by thinking it is about them... Choose wisely who and what you allow in your life and don't look to others being the source of the problem... the problem could be you.. I am saying this with love - it is a trap most of us fall into at some point or another... Our job is to be ourselves and love ourselves... our life on the outside then changes to match this frequency... Letting go of the need to act serious, mature, smart, "normal" etc. and just having fun, remembering what matters under all the masks, judgment and competing. Now there is wisdom in those words you jusst wrote... well said... there is no 'normal'... just what we are... and, whatever it is is fine... 'you are enough'...
I'm still trying to remember to do this more, it's not always easy or applicable, but I thought I'd share it, in case it might be useful in your situation.

I am glad you shared... No worries... you are so learning right now... being empathic and intuitive has its share of challenges... work on you... work to eliminate the shame my friend... I have never felt it thankfully and, you don't need to feel it either..

Much love,

Cristina:hug2:

[Louisa]

Hi Cristina,

At first glance, I would try to say, that I don't really believe that we attract our reality, or if it is true then I can only see it happening in a very limited kind of way. Maybe it's more true than I realize, however, I don't see it.

But I want to give what you said some thought. Maybe something more will come together and make sense to it all. I don't know. Thanks anyway though, and I do see some truth to what you are saying.

I guess it is that in some ways, I am just playing a game and I know that. The game is sometimes to protect my feelings, but other times the game is to make sure that others leave me out of their game. Sometimes I don't want to play the game, you know, so I have to make it very clear to them that I'm not playing. Sometimes they don't accept that I won't play and the only way is to make them not want me as a part of their game, so I have to be fake, but inside, I know who I really am, so it is just a ruse and a satire and it reminds me of the truth which stands in contrast to the ego game.

But sometimes, yes, when I feel hurt and judged and I let the judgment hurt me, maybe I could learn to love myself enough that it never could take root and slide off my back. Its something I imagine one has to learn gradually, or I think I would have to learn it only gradually. But some might be fast learners! I do think maybe there is childhood and perhaps past life shame issues in this for me also.

[Emmalevine]

Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread. I've found the posts really useful and interesting.

I think I need to experience this shame before I can let go of it. Since dealing with the issue with my physcial appearance I've really moved forward in letting go of that. There are others on an emotional level that I'm working through now so just trying to go with it and trust I will let them go when I'm ready.