Why become vegan?

[peacegarden]

Hi,

I was wondering the importance of becoming vegan, and why it is one of the first things they tell you to do in buddhism. When I think about it, it is kinda bleak that we kill and eat other living beings, perhaps it is representative of our impurities. But why are we encouraged to stop eating all animal produce? Is it just because we should not kill other sentient beings? Will we become purer if we quit? Will we gain more control over our animalistic desires? What is the deeper reason for it all, and why is even animal milk and unfertilized eggs not allowed?

I'm at the stage where I eat meat about once or twice a month and fish once a week. I don't really eat dairy products or eggs, only on occasion. I'm a bit torn, because I feel a lot of love for animals and I don't want to eat them, at the same time I don't like to tell myself that I CAN'T with anything, it is in allowing myself the choice and not denying myself that I have been able to overcome so many addictions and crutches. And I also worry about the nutrients that may not be found in vegan foods, especially the B vits and oils found in fish.

I haven't as yet found anything that talks about the deeper reasons for becoming vegan, what it is really all about and why we are encouraged to never eat animal produce.

Thanks!:smile:

[Denial]

Hmmm, good one, I myself am not a vegan or vegetarian (yet) but I guess the purpose of being vegan is leaving the animals alone entirely. By not interfering in their lives in any way I guess you wouldn't gather any negative karma.

[knightofalbion]

Animals have souls just as we do and are animated by the same spirit of God just as we are. All life is one.

What is spirituality without love? Without love 'you' have nothing.

Spiritual love is manifested in the physical expression as Service and in the emotional expression as compassion.

Of course, you are a free person. There is no "can't". You can eat whatever you like, as I can , as we all can, but there comes a time of realisation that other living beings - weaker, gentler beings - are suffering and dying because of you. And you want no part of it.

[knightofalbion]

Another side to it is that meat lowers the body's vibrational rate. Whereas 'living food' i.e. nuts, seeds, and fruit esp. berries raise the body's vibrational rate, so you'll be a more 'attuned' vessel.

[LPC]

The Noble Knight has given you a very clear answer. The only thing I would add is concerning your query about milk and eggs. These are avoided by vegans because they are involved in inhumane practices: e.g. in order to get cow's milk, calves are separated from their mothers very rapidly (and then fed on substitutes) and almost all young males are killed very young as they are not needed for "the system". Also, by definition, cow's milk is designed for calves, not people. Organic soya milk (available with calcium if desired) is a healthier and more humane alternative.

Regarding vitamin B12 (most crucial for vegans), here is a helpful page on sources: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

I buy Marmite to get enough B12 and other B vitamins, which is approved by the Vegetarian Society. Lots of breakfast cereals now have B vitamins added, also.

Hope the above helps you.

[peacegarden]

Interesting, thank you for your answers. It makes a lot of sense. To be honest I don't want any part of the system, I think it's awful, and most people are so inconsiderate, eating meat all the time without even thinking about the suffering or the impact of the meat industry on the planet.

I have heard about foods having different vibrations, or altering one's own vibrational rate.

I think I'm going to make the break to be honest. Can we be sure we're getting enough nutrients without meat? What about the omegas in fish? EPA fish oils are marketed as excellent for the brain, is there any other sources?

I often think about primates. The more beautiful monkeys, such as gorillas and chimps are largely raw food vegans, or fruitarians, and the more vicious and aggressive monkeys are the ones that eat much higher quantities of meat, such as baboons, and another but can't remember it's name. I just wonder if eating meat brings us down to a more aggressive and desperate state of being.

[CSEe]

In my current understanding of Buddhism , I eat what I can as long as I aware eating , desire of eating , emotion on eating and the cause of eating ......so is regardless what I eat , how I eat it ...is matter on why I eat it ..Buddhism is to understand the desire / emotion on eating , accept it and freedom of it ............so Buddhismis a PROCESS to realize own emotion , accept it and freedom of it ....
so about being vegen ......by knowledge many belief killing / causing suffering to others is wrong ..so in knowledge we can imagine animal suffer being killed for their food but what about vege ? Vege just like any animal , they live , need water , need oxg, need space , have sex (perhaps not like us) but they have need just like human .....so by logic they too could suffer if being cut / cooked ....what about drinking water , even Dalai Lama have to kill trillions of micro-orgsm for drinking a glass of water .........so what we should eat is all about KNOWLEDGE and Buddhism is beyond knowledge ......so if by your knowledge you eat meat , you will regret ...dont eat , if you do and aware of it ...eat it as that is just part of Buddhism process to freedom of all your desire ....not limited to food .
In Buddhism you will never hurt any one EXCEPT yourself and no one could hurt you EXCEPT yourself ......and death / birth is only exist in human knowledge but in Buddhism death / birth is just a part of purification process to discover ownself ......example if you kill a cow for any reason , the cow death is NEVER cause by you as death is part of the cow purification process , you are just a factor to the cow death never the cause ...........
Thks
CSEe

[knightofalbion]

1) Also, by definition, cow's milk is designed for calves, not people. Organic soya milk (available with calcium if desired) is a healthier and more humane alternative.

2) Regarding vitamin B12 (most crucial for vegans), here is a helpful page on sources: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm



1) There is also almond milk and rice milk. Both delicious and readily available in supermarkets/health stores.

2) Depending on which studies you believe between 40% and 78% of people are deficient in vitamn B-12. Vegans comprise about 1% of the population....

[knightofalbion]

What about the omegas in fish? EPA fish oils are marketed as excellent for the brain, is there any other sources?



Vegetarian/vegan supplements:
Opti3
Cerebrum (Healthspan)
V-Pure
Udo's Choice

http://www.nutripeople.co.uk/news/conversion-of-dietary-ala-to-epa-and-dha-may-be-increased-in-non-fish-eaters

Pure Ocean Kelp is marvellous. Contains a great array of trace minerals and amino acids. Worth adding to any diet.

[peacegarden]

Vegetarian/vegan supplements:
Opti3
Cerebrum (Healthspan)
V-Pure
Udo's Choice

http://www.nutripeople.co.uk/news/conversion-of-dietary-ala-to-epa-and-dha-may-be-increased-in-non-fish-eaters

Pure Ocean Kelp is marvellous. Contains a great array of trace minerals and amino acids. Worth adding to any diet.

Interesting, thank you.

[BlueSky]

Hi,

I was wondering the importance of becoming vegan, and why it is one of the first things they tell you to do in buddhism. When I think about it, it is kinda bleak that we kill and eat other living beings, perhaps it is representative of our impurities. But why are we encouraged to stop eating all animal produce? Is it just because we should not kill other sentient beings? Will we become purer if we quit? Will we gain more control over our animalistic desires? What is the deeper reason for it all, and why is even animal milk and unfertilized eggs not allowed?

I'm at the stage where I eat meat about once or twice a month and fish once a week. I don't really eat dairy products or eggs, only on occasion. I'm a bit torn, because I feel a lot of love for animals and I don't want to eat them, at the same time I don't like to tell myself that I CAN'T with anything, it is in allowing myself the choice and not denying myself that I have been able to overcome so many addictions and crutches. And I also worry about the nutrients that may not be found in vegan foods, especially the B vits and oils found in fish.

I haven't as yet found anything that talks about the deeper reasons for becoming vegan, what it is really all about and why we are encouraged to never eat animal produce.

Thanks!:smile:

If it was me, I would turn it back on myself and seek out the deeper reasons why you feel you should become vegan. It's personal, no one should be telling you which way to go with this. You will find deep reasons from outside yourself for and against it and you will choose the ones that allow you to go in the direction you really want to go. It's better to just look within and see why we do this.
Again, it's personal.

[peacegarden]

If it was me, I would turn it back on myself and seek out the deeper reasons why you feel you should become vegan. It's personal, no one should be telling you which way to go with this. You will find deep reasons from outside yourself for and against it and you will choose the ones that allow you to go in the direction you really want to go. It's better to just look within and see why we do this.
Again, it's personal.

Interesting.

So why do religions like buddhism encourage veganism so much if it's such a personal thing, and if meat eating isn't detrimental to the spiritual path?

[Black Sheep]

I'd say eating unbalanced is detrimental to the spiritual path whichever diet your heart leads you too follow.

If looking into the why, then why not research the history of it. Many cultures/religions encourage strict practices for handling meat(and other animal products) for very good reason. It could have been for socio-economic, cultural, sanitary safe guards as well as the knowledge of how what you eat effects you on a base level.

In regards to my own observations on high vs. low energy foods, it's not as really cut and dry, all x is high vibration and all y is low type thing.

Treatment of the substance also affects the energy, this goes for plant as well as animal. Your palate and body can be tuned to this as any good chef. So anyway, something to the harness the full potential of say a fruit or veggy would be to pick it at peak ripeness rather than picked green and then chemically mature it during storage or transport. Same with animals, milk, eggs, and other animal products. The treatment, and diet affect the plant/animal, which you digest and effects you as well. Also, in regards to animals harmed, veggies aren't free and clear, picture combines, augers, harvester, tillers, pesticides all tied to those produce. I'm not sure how that works in the karmic sense, but I just guess it's one of those things that's personal. :D

[BlueSky]

Interesting.

So why do religions like buddhism encourage veganism so much if it's such a personal thing, and if meat eating isn't detrimental to the spiritual path?

It doesn't really matter. What matters is how you feel about it. This is not about veganism, it is about you coming to know you thru how you will relate to this that is happening to you right now. Like I said, it s personal.
The native Americans eat meat in a way that no respectible religion could condemn. Others do not eat meat to look spiritual. It can go all different ways when looking at it.
It's just not important which way to go. It's about learning you about thru this particular issue that is pertinent in your life right now.

[knightofalbion]

It's about honouring what you believe/know to be right and true.

All life is one.

Love is the fulfilling of the Law.

[NIRVANA]

Hi,

I was wondering the importance of becoming vegan, and why it is one of the first things they tell you to do in buddhism. When I think about it, it is kinda bleak that we kill and eat other living beings, perhaps it is representative of our impurities. But why are we encouraged to stop eating all animal produce? Is it just because we should not kill other sentient beings? Will we become purer if we quit? Will we gain more control over our animalistic desires? What is the deeper reason for it all, and why is even animal milk and unfertilized eggs not allowed?

I'm at the stage where I eat meat about once or twice a month and fish once a week. I don't really eat dairy products or eggs, only on occasion. I'm a bit torn, because I feel a lot of love for animals and I don't want to eat them, at the same time I don't like to tell myself that I CAN'T with anything, it is in allowing myself the choice and not denying myself that I have been able to overcome so many addictions and crutches. And I also worry about the nutrients that may not be found in vegan foods, especially the B vits and oils found in fish.

I haven't as yet found anything that talks about the deeper reasons for becoming vegan, what it is really all about and why we are encouraged to never eat animal produce.

Thanks!:smile:



I was a vegetarian for over 20 years then had to eat meat again due to health problems.
Can remember a time I was living at samye-ling in scotland and one of the guys became ill and lama Yeshe told the guy he had to eat meat to get his health back.

I now eat liver twice a week and kidney twice a week aswel as fish and eggs nearly everyday and feel a different person .I feel stronger and my energy back.:smile:

[NIRVANA]

Another side to it is that meat lowers the body's vibrational rate. Whereas 'living food' i.e. nuts, seeds, and fruit esp. berries raise the body's vibrational rate, so you'll be a more 'attuned' vessel.


There is no evidence of this what so ever it is a belief.:smile:

[NIRVANA]

Interesting.

So why do religions like buddhism encourage veganism so much if it's such a personal thing, and if meat eating isn't detrimental to the spiritual path?

Many shaolin buddhist monks eat meat. Tibetan monks and lama's also eat meat infact a large percentage of buddhists around the world eat meat.:smile:

[knightofalbion]

There is no evidence of this what so ever it is a belief.:smile:

Maybe when you are a little more experienced in spiritual matters you will hold a different view...

[knightofalbion]

Many shaolin buddhist monks eat meat.



http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=589

"The fully indoctrinated monks of Shaolin practice vegetarianism"

[peacegarden]

So about food vibrations. . .

I've started foraging this autumn, just blackberries, rosehips etc so far. But I realized that these must be really high vibration food, even more so that they were picked by hand from the countryside. I also eat a ton of fruit and veg.

Here are my guesses from heart, please tell me if you disagree or have anything to add.

Lowering food vibrations:
Microwaving food
Tinned food
Frying
non organic
Meat
refined sugar
Wheat and grains
Packet food and processed food
Fermented food!? and pickled?
Foods wrapped in plastic
Foods where workers suffer in poor conditions
Foods that were thrown around
Meals that aren't appreciated

High Vibes food
Organic,
self harvested / picked (because more love goes in)
Fresh
Vegan
Seasonal!?
Appreciated food
Leafy veg
Fruit, seeds, nuts.
Raw/lightly steamed

[NIRVANA]

Maybe when you are a little more experienced in spiritual matters you will hold a different view...


Sarcasm does not count for fact :cool:

Its a subjective ideal that you have. Im not saying its wrong for you :smile:

We all have to find our way and our way can be very different depending on what programming we have given our subconscious.:smile:

[NIRVANA]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=589

"The fully indoctrinated monks of Shaolin practice vegetarianism"

It used to be plenty now eat meat.:smile:

[knightofalbion]

Sarcasm does not count for fact :cool:

Its a subjective ideal that you have. Im not saying its wrong for you :smile:

We all have to find our way and our way can be very different depending on what programming we have given our subconscious.:smile:

It was not sarcasm. As 'you' grow and evolve spiritually 'you' come to understand and see things differently. That applies to everyone.
"The truth of today you will reject for the higher truth of tomorrow"

[knightofalbion]

So about food vibrations. . .

I've started foraging this autumn, just blackberries, rosehips etc so far. But I realized that these must be really high vibration food, even more so that they were picked by hand from the countryside. I also eat a ton of fruit and veg.

Here are my guesses from heart, please tell me if you disagree or have anything to add.

Lowering food vibrations:
Microwaving food
Tinned food
Frying
non organic
Meat
refined sugar
Wheat and grains
Packet food and processed food
Fermented food!? and pickled?
Foods wrapped in plastic
Foods where workers suffer in poor conditions
Foods that were thrown around
Meals that aren't appreciated

High Vibes food
Organic,
self harvested / picked (because more love goes in)
Fresh
Vegan
Seasonal!?
Appreciated food
Leafy veg
Fruit, seeds, nuts.
Raw/lightly steamed

I would say that is very wise and insightful reasoning there, dear PeaceGarden.

Though what makes fruit esp.berries, nuts and seeds raise the body's vibrational rate is that these foods are 'living' foods i.e. they contain the 'life force'.

[peacegarden]

I would say that is very wise and insightful reasoning there, dear PeaceGarden.

Though what makes fruit esp.berries, nuts and seeds raise the body's vibrational rate is that these foods are 'living' foods i.e. they contain the 'life force'.

Ah yeah I've heard this. I guess then, meat is very 'dead' isn't it. :D

[BlueSky]

I was a vegetarian for over 20 years then had to eat meat again due to health problems.
Can remember a time I was living at samye-ling in scotland and one of the guys became ill and lama Yeshe told the guy he had to eat meat to get his health back.

I now eat liver twice a week and kidney twice a week aswel as fish and eggs nearly everyday and feel a different person .I feel stronger and my energy back.:smile:

Very much similar to my story.

[NIRVANA]

It was not sarcasm. As 'you' grow and evolve spiritually 'you' come to understand and see things differently. That applies to everyone.
"The truth of today you will reject for the higher truth of tomorrow"


You mean grow and evolve and fit your beliefs into a box:smile: I lived at a buddhist center for a few years ive been involved in meditation for over 20 years.
I woke up and realised i dont know anything. Everything i believed in was someone else ideals.

We become carbon copies of other peoples beliefs. :smile:

[NIRVANA]

Ah yeah I've heard this. I guess then, meat is very 'dead' isn't it. :D



Nothing is dead everything is energy.:smile:


For some people vegetarian diet works wonders other people it can have a negative effect. There is a danger of becoming too pro meat eating or too anti meat eating this is a very negative mind set { which we all get involved with from time to time} Just eat what what makes you feel good and energized.

Emptyness is form .Form is emptyness everything else is an ideal.

[knightofalbion]

You mean grow and evolve and fit your beliefs into a box:smile: I lived at a buddhist center for a few years ive been involved in meditation for over 20 years.
I woke up and realised i dont know anything. Everything i believed in was someone else ideals.

We become carbon copies of other peoples beliefs. :smile:

And that is exactly what I meant. We grow and evolve spiritually and as we do, we come to see and understand things differently.
What 'you' considered true yesterday, may not be true to 'you' today, and what is true to 'you' today may not be true to 'you' tomorrow.

As for being "carbon copies" that may well be true in terms of orthodox religion.
But, as I would like to think, most people here are not shackled by the constraints of orthodoxy. They recognise that they are 'the captain of their soul and master of their fate'. They understand that Truth is more than a book or a creed.

When 'you' encounter wisdom and truth, it's beautiful and it immediately strikes a chord within.

Seeking truth is wise in itself and when you are ready for truth you will find it - or it will find you.

[peacegarden]

There is a danger of becoming too pro meat eating or too anti meat eating this is a very negative mind set { which we all get involved with from time to time}

I certainly agree with this. There's a kind of aggressive energy that comes from both parties. The worst thing we can do is judge someone on what they eat, that comes from a negative place from within us.

[NIRVANA]

I certainly agree with this. There's a kind of aggressive energy that comes from both parties. The worst thing we can do is judge someone on what they eat, that comes from a negative place from within us.


Yes that my point you have to do whats good for you:smile:

We are all guilty of it every now and then we argue our beliefs and think we are free.

When most zen masters would just say shut up and meditate.:smile:

[peacegarden]

Yes that my point you have to do whats good for you:smile:

We are all guilty of it every now and then we argue our beliefs and think we are free.

When most zen masters would just say shut up and meditate.:smile:

Lol, if we all done that there would be no Spiritual Forums! :D

[Emmalevine]

I used to be a vegan but it was very, very bad due to my health problems. I started to eat eggs and therefore become vegetarian but shortly after this I realised I needed more protein so I eat a bit of fish. I don't eat any meat.

I agree completely with the sentiment behind becoming vegan but I believe it isn't right for everyone. Some people need meat and fish to survive, not just those with health problems but who have particular body needs or type. But for those who can tolerate giving it up, it's definitely a valuable move for the planet.

[Emmalevine]

So about food vibrations. . .

I've started foraging this autumn, just blackberries, rosehips etc so far. But I realized that these must be really high vibration food, even more so that they were picked by hand from the countryside. I also eat a ton of fruit and veg.

Here are my guesses from heart, please tell me if you disagree or have anything to add.

Lowering food vibrations:
Microwaving food
Tinned food
Frying
non organic
Meat
refined sugar
Wheat and grains
Packet food and processed food
Fermented food!? and pickled?
Foods wrapped in plastic
Foods where workers suffer in poor conditions
Foods that were thrown around
Meals that aren't appreciated

High Vibes food
Organic,
self harvested / picked (because more love goes in)
Fresh
Vegan
Seasonal!?
Appreciated food
Leafy veg
Fruit, seeds, nuts.
Raw/lightly steamed

Good list, just interested why wheat and grains are a low vibration? I would go to bed incredibly hungry without them!

[knightofalbion]

I certainly agree with this. There's a kind of aggressive energy that comes from both parties. The worst thing we can do is judge someone on what they eat, that comes from a negative place from within us.

I haven't seen any "aggressive energy" from either side here. On the contrary I'd say it has been remarkably civil considering how passionate things can get.
I haven't seen any judgement either.

As I said, it is the duty of man to live as kindly and harmlessly as 'he' can. How you interpret that is down to you. YOU are in charge of YOUR soul, no-one else.

[NIRVANA]

Good list, just interested why wheat and grains are a low vibration? I would go to bed incredibly hungry without them!


Wheat contain phytic acid which blocks mineral absorbing and blocks calcium

http://wellnessmama.com/575/how-grains-are-killing-you-slowly/

If seeds etc are sprouted first they are alot healthier helps to rid the toxins.

[Morpheus]

Focusing on Food is not much different than a particular faith saying one should only recognize that the Sabbath is on one day, and not the other.

Or, one should wear certain clothing, only. Or wear their hair a certain way.

Neither of these perspectives are true spirituality. They are Earth centric perspectives, not spiritual. Carnal and egoic minded.

[knightofalbion]

There is, as you say, "carnal" lust for flesh food and there is an "egoic" mindset in that the person gives no thought or care as to the suffering and death of the animal.
But...
The Law of Love and the unity of all life are two of the most, if not the most, central tenets of spirituality. As I have said several times already, there is interpretation, but either way there will be little progress up the spheres of Light until these great truths hit home.

[Morpheus]

Admittedly, many could eat less meat. But, regarding the poorer of us, where will one get a substantial meal, providing whole protien, for a buck?
As at McDonalds,and such?

People can also choose organic, and local farm raised sources of meat.

Also, I've read of references about low protein diet with regarding negative spiritual consequences.
Something about that, involving suseptibility to negativite influence . This in two different books I've read.
One was from a former Hindu, who underwent a number of close calls threatening his mortal life.

[knightofalbion]

Beans and rice combined make a complete protein comparable to red meat.
(Half the world survives on beans and rice! Two of the cheapest foods you can eat)
Ditto beans and wholemeal bread.
The protein content in quinoa is superior to red meat.

[BlueSky]

Mung beans are really digestible. They even sell split ones which make them cook faster.
Better than meat...........who knows.

[Morpheus]

At home, I am happy to have a bowl of prepared refried beans in the fridge, to have with some cheese, or rice.

I don't even know if you can get a beans and rice combination, on the go, at a Taco Bell.
Rice is just something you don't see at fast food stops.

Really, not everyone has the time to stop, and wait, or, cook something up.
And again, comparable to a McDonalds or other cheap meal. That's at the heart of the situation, making any appeals to a vegetarian diet moot.


Solutions? One might be if a grocery store is nearby or on the way where the deli section serves some kind rice combination.
Of course the person doing that will most likely be faced with servings behined the glass of Spare Ribs, and Fried Chicken, ham salad, and such.
Another solution is if the person can make a vegetarian meal at home and bring it with them to work. But with that, there is the issue of variety.

[knightofalbion]

Rice takes 15 minutes max to cook. It's a no brainer! Even I can do it...

The current favourite of mine is fortified soup. That takes only 4 minutes and it costs less than £1.
All it is is a tin of vegetable soup (vegan), a tin of baked beans and 4 slices of wholemeal bread.
Sieve the beans, drain off the sauce which has a lot of suger in it, add the beans to the soup, heat and serve.
Simple, but very satisfying and nutritious.

[Morpheus]

Sure Knight. But, as I said, variety.

Why not post a few recipes that are easy, and provide whole protien?

I made a loaf of bread recently with self rising flour. White flour though.
It was suggested that cheese could be added in. You can get whole grain flour, but not self rising I don't think.

It was 3 cups flour, 1/2 cup sugar, 12 Oz. of Beer, ( :>D ).Add garlic on top, and melted butter on top 10 minutes before done.

Pretty simple.
45 minutes at 350 in the oven.


With whole grain flour, you'd have to add the baking powder, which is easy to look up.

A salad is generally easy to come by. What would be in a salad to make a whole protien? Just beans or lentils? Maybe cottage cheese or other cheese.

[AtsuiPanda]

I would never become a vegan for one i love meat another we are supposed to eat meat , But i do have a problem with how we get meat, we should eat what we kill and use everything. it would be fairest game bot just farming animals JUST to die for food

[knightofalbion]

Sure Knight. But, as I said, variety.

Why not post a few recipes that are easy, and provide whole protien?




Quinoa provides a complete protein superior to red meat.
Beans and rice combined, beans and wholemeal bread combined, and rice and lentils combined, provide a complete protein equivalent to red meat. Then you have Tofu, a complete protein, a bit bland but it readily absorbs the flavours of sauces etc.
All very simple to cook. All providing complete protein.

[knightofalbion]

I made a loaf of bread recently with self rising flour. White flour though.
It was suggested that cheese could be added in. You can get whole grain flour, but not self rising I don't think.

It was 3 cups flour, 1/2 cup sugar, 12 Oz. of Beer, ( :>D ).Add garlic on top, and melted butter on top 10 minutes before done.

Pretty simple.
45 minutes at 350 in the oven.




White flour - cheese - sugar - beer - melted butter...Not sure that's very healthy, Morpheus!

[Patricius]

I stick to this idea about low and high vibrational food. But in the past i read a book about blood-group-diet. Talking about 0, A, AB, B. For example blood group A is one of the oldest and was ''born'' in the humankind at the beginning of the agroculture. Therefore it is healthy for them to eat some sorts of fruits, vegs and meat, in example turkey or chicken, but not pig or cow meat.
http://www.dadamo.com/

[Alpha Lex]

Human anatomy resembles most closely that of anthropoid apes, who thrive mainly on green leafy plants. It thus stands to reason that a vegan diet is probably best for people.

Two good books that helped me decide in this matter are The Higher Taste by Prabhupada and The Essene Gospel of Peace by Szekely. I endorse these volumes more for the rational information they contain on diet than their religious teachings.

Both books are available online in downloadable PDF format and can be located by Google search.

[Tobi]

Going Vegan was a simple thing for me. I became aware last year of something I had not been fully aware of before, or had not been able to take on board completely before (a series of events caused this shift in my awareness)
I became aware that animals really do have Souls. And not only that -but sometimes they can be at a level of spiritual development even finer than a Human's. (I'm not talking 'intellectual' -but 'spiritual'.)
That was just my personal experience, but I realized things....I didn't want to be a part of causing any animal Soul any of this: ....bondage, suffering, pain, antibiotics in every feed, calves taken from them, grieving for those calves, being culled because there were too many males, being subjected to the astral conditions of the slaughterhouse.....etc
I found I couldn't support this any more than I could support puppy farms.
(And I was very fond of butter, cheese, and milk chocolate pralines.)
But after what I experienced, which opened my eyes to understanding about animal Souls, I knew I couldn't be part of that any more. In fact -facing all that realization made me so sad that I hadn't given it deep thought and understanding from my Heart, before.
That was my personal decision.

By the way...Tofu...The smoked Tofu is lovely, not so bland. I cut it into about 1" squares, dribble them with Soy sauce, let it soak in, then sprinkle a little curry powder on, and fry or lightly grill for about 8 minutes. Lovely with rice! Another nice one is -do this with the Tofu but add some halved mushrooms, (I like the Chestnut mushrooms) and cook the lot together

[Tobi]

I would say that is very wise and insightful reasoning there, dear PeaceGarden.

Though what makes fruit esp.berries, nuts and seeds raise the body's vibrational rate is that these foods are 'living' foods i.e. they contain the 'life force'.

Yes they are. Also a really 'living' food I think is sprouted seeds, lentils, mung beans, etc This is incredibly easy to do. I don't even use special equipment -just clean glass jars! It's also incredibly cheap. These sprouts have so much life force in them, also it's something children are often interested in making...and when they have made them, they will taste them! They have pretty good protein value too.

[Baile]

Going Vegan was a simple thing for me.Same here. I slowly eliminated foods from my diet over a period of several years, until one day someone asked me what my diet consisted of. I told them, and they answered,"So you're a vegan." Me: "I am?!" Didn't even realize it.

[arrive-becomer]

Hi,

I was wondering the importance of becoming vegan, and why it is one of the first things they tell you to do in buddhism. When I think about it, it is kinda bleak that we kill and eat other living beings, perhaps it is representative of our impurities. But why are we encouraged to stop eating all animal produce? Is it just because we should not kill other sentient beings? Will we become purer if we quit? Will we gain more control over our animalistic desires? What is the deeper reason for it all, and why is even animal milk and unfertilized eggs not allowed?

I'm at the stage where I eat meat about once or twice a month and fish once a week. I don't really eat dairy products or eggs, only on occasion. I'm a bit torn, because I feel a lot of love for animals and I don't want to eat them, at the same time I don't like to tell myself that I CAN'T with anything, it is in allowing myself the choice and not denying myself that I have been able to overcome so many addictions and crutches. And I also worry about the nutrients that may not be found in vegan foods, especially the B vits and oils found in fish.

I haven't as yet found anything that talks about the deeper reasons for becoming vegan, what it is really all about and why we are encouraged to never eat animal produce.

Thanks!:smile:

I'm a vegetarian, not a vegan but I think I can still give this issue some clarity.

To take anything as if it's possession is always stealing if you can't give it back in some way. Nature has such patterns that everything is always available for that which has evolved to grow for a place. To use animals is to consider them possessions, and also to discredit their minds.

Buddhism is unique to many religious ideas around the world in that it states clearly that body is the causality of the mind. How you are shaped, your mind is shaped. You can run through all kinds of dog species, designed from the same set of genetics yet infinitely broad in body and mind. But this means that any animal with eyes, has inner vision. If there is inner vision, there is mind - and mind strives for things it likes. That is the nature of mind.

If mind is the total experience of existence, then to torture a mind (torture a body) is to create hell in a beings selfness. This doesn't seem like a big thing, but maybe if you look deeply and meditate you will come across insight into self.

Unlike my body, self is not limited to me and my mind. Self appears young in life, in early evolution. Selfness, and mindness - arise when bodies are producing them. But without such a myopic view, selfness and mindness arise when the universe shapes itself in such a way. This is the apex of experience, it is the only experience and is for everyone.

Your experience of self is shared by many others, who have different direct experiences to you due to the mind-body relationship. The self however is shared amungst this universe.

Death is the void of experience, and life is the only experience. This means that life is eternal, you can experience nothing but life.

So... You on some level experience everything of every being in which self arises, and on death there's no telling who's experience you'll be a self in. So, if we all share a self - we are only doing this violence to ourselves and one day we will experience it.

If this changes a view, you have to consider how deliberately short sighted we keep ourselves so that we can distance ourselves from the suffering of other mind-body organisms, while forgetting that the unifying mind-body organism includes all of us. Just as a brain includes many neurological pathways, and many cells of many shapes and sizes.

It's very interesting how thinking under the idea that our self may experience all body-mind organisms we might become intensely motivated to try and create heaven on earth, and create a world of pure bliss.

It is like realizing that you are on a desert island alone, and that you've been cutting off your own limbs to feed yourself when one comes to realize why we shouldn't steal or possess things that others innately own. (their bodies or minds). Eggs belong to the mother chicken, fertilized or not - I guess.

You are a guest in the minds of others, so acting as a polite guest is the most sufficient way to remain humble and compassionate.

[Animus27]

Hi,

I was wondering the importance of becoming vegan, and why it is one of the first things they tell you to do in buddhism. When I think about it, it is kinda bleak that we kill and eat other living beings, perhaps it is representative of our impurities. But why are we encouraged to stop eating all animal produce? Is it just because we should not kill other sentient beings? Will we become purer if we quit? Will we gain more control over our animalistic desires? What is the deeper reason for it all, and why is even animal milk and unfertilized eggs not allowed?

I'm at the stage where I eat meat about once or twice a month and fish once a week. I don't really eat dairy products or eggs, only on occasion. I'm a bit torn, because I feel a lot of love for animals and I don't want to eat them, at the same time I don't like to tell myself that I CAN'T with anything, it is in allowing myself the choice and not denying myself that I have been able to overcome so many addictions and crutches. And I also worry about the nutrients that may not be found in vegan foods, especially the B vits and oils found in fish.

I haven't as yet found anything that talks about the deeper reasons for becoming vegan, what it is really all about and why we are encouraged to never eat animal produce.

Thanks!:smile:
Buddhism does not universally encourage, nor condemn veganism. Many Mahayana schools do advise people to become vegetarians (not the same as veganism), because the objective in Mahayana is to be a bodhisattva. In the Vinaya Pitaka, the Buddha tells his bhikkhus to eat whatever is placed in their begging bowls, even meat. The only time a bhikkhu may reject the food is if they suspect that the animal has been slaughtered specifically for the monks.

In countries like Tibet, where there's little arable farm land, much of the population eats a large amount of animal products, including the lay followers of the dharma.

Buddha-dharma is the path of nonviolence, compassion and wisdom. For many that entails giving up meat. But not all can necessarily follow that path due to environmental or health issues. If you can cut down, by all means do so, although, don't turn it into an all or nothing sort of thing.

After all, the Tathagata Buddha's last meal was pork.

[Daren Lew]

As far as I know the all animals are the ones that are reincarnated from human beings into the animal world because of the sins they have made when they are alive. All animals have souls as we do. If our human beings do all the evil and do no good, when we dies we might be also reborn into the animal world. The meat you eat perhaps is the meat from the aimals that your dead loved ones、your relaitves or friends or other human beings are reborn into. Once you undersands what said above, what you will feel when you eat meat again. Most probably the meat you eat is the meat of your dead grandparets‘. Think twice when you eat meat next time. Do not worry about the nutrition. Ordinary food and vegetables can provide us with all the nutrition we need. Eating meat is just a habit or a kind of temptation. I firmly believe if we have universal love and kindness for all the living beings---human beings, animals, plants, we can certainly get rid of meat eating habit or temptation. All the souls on this planet came from the same source and have the same Mother or Creator. Human beings, animals or plants are all the sons or daughters of the same Mother or Creator. So we have no reason to treat one another unkindly or even cruelly to say nothing of eating them. I beg you to think again and then make the choice between being a vegan or a meat eater.

[LucidMoob]

Im not strickly a vegan but if I had to be placed into a category then vegan is the closest thing that resembles my diet.

I would eat eggs if i knew the chickens were allowed to live a free life and die naturally, therefore they are not being exploited, instead, I would just be eating their chicken periods (yes this is what eggs are, a chickens period...tasty tho!). I will not buy any eggs from a shop though as those chickens have been exploited, and as soon as they cannot lay eggs they are killed. Cruel!

I won't drink milk from a cow or any other animal because that animal have been exploited. It has been raped in order for it to get pregnant, its baby is then taken away so it doesn't steal the farmers milk (suckle from its mother), the cow is then exploited for its milk and impregnated again when the milk dries up. This process will happen a few times until the cows body is ruined, at this point the cow is killed. Cruel!

If I were a wild man living in the woods I may eat road kill and bugs etc. I may even hunt for personal food. But in my society where I have a choice between buying food from an exploited sentient being or not buying that food, I will always choose not to because personally I feel I have better karma for it.

If someone has to eat meat or dairy produce for health reasons, fair enough. If they have to eat them because they don't have much choice in their part of the world, fair enough. If someone wants to hunt animals so that they don't have to give money to greedy unethical corporations, fair enough...

Do what you think is right, so long as you have fully considered your choice from every angle I guess.

[karmasblessings]

I just have some things to add.
1. ask your self do you no how these animals are being killed? do you prepare and kill your own animals? these animals are being slaughter?and a loving being that you are?are you ok with that?when there another solution that gives you 100% more benefit.
the pain they go through the suffering?do you truly want these things for you?why is my question?when you can make your own garden and eat from mother earth she also has spirit she take care of you everyday and instead you act like ur dumb and kill are animals?.they have loving souls when you eat them you are carrying these pain of abuse , within your dna and etheric body. I asked a friend of mine would you be an vampire and drink blood or eat animals if that's was a choice I told him id be a vampire at least they still be alive.
mother earth has made for us infinite vegetables to choose, fruits, herbs, weed, and instead we choose to kill spirits being animals .Take the life that was giving from inner source. now being a vegan is the best for transforming one's being.100% you cant go wrong. physical and etheric you can't lose. I understand we didn't land on Plymouth rock. Plymouth rock landed on us we grew up with lies. but in this day in age you need to realize your true nature. because we are nature and we need to take responsibility. we are spirts beingof light that are having a physical experience not the other way around.

[knightofalbion]

After all, the Tathagata Buddha's last meal was pork.

Or mushrooms, depending on translation...

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Diet_of_Buddha

[gatito]

Hi,
I was wondering the importance of becoming vegan, and why it is one of the first things they tell you to do in buddhism. When I think about it, it is kinda bleak that we kill and eat other living beings, perhaps it is representative of our impurities. But why are we encouraged to stop eating all animal produce? :

Hi Peacegarden! :smile: For a twelve minute answer to your question watch "Meet Your Meat."

For an hour and a half answer to your question, watch "Earthlings."

Both are on YouTube.

Meet Your Meat only has some blood near the end, and it's obvious when it's coming so you can close your eyes. It focuses not on the slaughter or animals but on their torturous living conditions. (Plus I think if they have to live through it, we who through our consumption choices are collectively responsible for what they endure shouldn't get a pass at not having to watch it, even if it's uncomfortable.)

There is also info readily available online about how schemes like "free run" and "free range" are often little better than the usual factory farm conditions. (Certainly not good enough to allow for the animals to enjoy a decent life. Nothing we'd want to subject our beloved pets to.) There are some "free range" farms where animals are treated decent, but they are a small minority that gets smaller all the time, and you can't be sure when you buy the eggs/dairy how the animals were actually treated.

If you're a vegan I recommend lots of supplements, including protein powder. The price of supplements might seem a lot because you buy them all at once, but they last for months, so it works out to being cheap in the end. I live on a low income (about $900 a month in a big city with high cost of living), so if I can afford it, so can almost anyone in the first world.

Good luck! :hug2: