Truthfulness

[Gem]

I guess to be observant of what happens to be there is the essence of truthfulness. I can't know such things and nor do others know, but unless one addresses it as it actually is... there's no truthfulness in it.

Where people talk of love light and healing energies, ok talk, stick crystals in the room and imagine pretty lights... no harm done and also very useful, I encourage that if it's a person's way, but if truthfulness is neglected, than it's all at a superficial level.

I like to dig deep and to see what's there, which requires a calmly balanced mind, because a reactive unsettled mind can't see past the things it is preoccupied with. Quietude is the way to deeper places. Sometimes it can be unpleasant too, but that's not so important is it? If it's made important, the mind reacts, becomes unsettled... but that's not what we want. We want to just be there and see the truth as it is, as it happens in each passing moment.

Thank you

(Bows)

[Buzz]

To observe without agenda. That is key. You only need to look at your own actions outside of stillness to see subtle inclinations toward certain outcomes. Quantum Physics has been showing how perception alters reality. I can respond to this here thread and I have altered the intention of the OP in a subtle or dramatic way. So it is that what we seek to find is what we find. But to simply observe....

[Gem]

To observe without agenda. That is key. You only need to look at your own actions outside of stillness to see subtle inclinations toward certain outcomes. Quantum Physics has been showing how perception alters reality. I can respond to this here thread and I have altered the intention of the OP in a subtle or dramatic way. So it is that what we seek to find is what we find. But to simply observe....

I guess it's an 'intention healing'. Are you intent on such things?

I'm not spruiking any volitional action that heals. I'm just saying like you say, 'simply observe'.

The idea is to remain aware of the stillness so that any mental reaction is noticed if it occurs; then determine that 'you' will regain quiet calm immediately. The calmer mind is the deeper mind.

[Buzz]

I'm all for it if it arises of it's own. There is nothing in me these days to want to do much else then bare witness, either in or out of meditation. From what I have found, healing is a byproduct of observing and allowing. At a deeper level the mechanics of this process may even reveal themselves. But that is simply speculation based on intuition at this point. Nice thread guy.

[Gem]

I'm all for it if it arises of it's own. There is nothing in me these days to want to do much else then bare witness, either in or out of meditation. From what I have found, healing is a byproduct of observing and allowing. At a deeper level the mechanics of this process may even reveal themselves. But that is simply speculation based on intuition at this point. Nice thread guy.

Every moment is revealing something. Myself, I tend to steer clear of the 'accept' principles (it's one of my quirky preferences) because when life happens there is a point of noticing it prior to any acceptance or rejection. One can not accept, or reject, until after something is noticed. The stable mind remains alert, without rejection or acceptance.

[amy green]

Every moment is revealing something. Myself, I tend to steer clear of the 'accept' principles (it's one of my quirky preferences) because when life happens there is a point of noticing it prior to any acceptance or rejection. One can not accept, or reject, until after something is noticed. The stable mind remains alert, without rejection or acceptance.
I am a little surprised to read this about you Gem since you don't come across as that open minded on certain subjects, i.e. you HAVE "accepted" and formed opinions on many things. I guess it applies to certain other areas then....?

I could also say this about myself though, i.e. I regard myself as open minded but have strong opinions on certain subjects. However, I am more interested in getting a true appraisal than persisting with my own view (should it be wrong) so am always interested in discussion and adjusting my opinion where appropriate. Indeed, yes, I am a truth seeker. :smile:

[Buzz]

Every moment is revealing something. Myself, I tend to steer clear of the 'accept' principles (it's one of my quirky preferences) because when life happens there is a point of noticing it prior to any acceptance or rejection. One can not accept, or reject, until after something is noticed. The stable mind remains alert, without rejection or acceptance.
Fair enough. My trip has been, of late about accepting. Thats what I am drawn to and what I do until further notice. Mainly because in past times I tended to reject was is. This period seems to be about balancing the ledger. When it arises naturally I will allow it to come and go. Sometimes ot stays for a bit. Thats OK too.

[Gem]

Fair enough. My trip has been, of late about accepting. Thats what I am drawn to and what I do until further notice. Mainly because in past times I tended to reject was is. This period seems to be about balancing the ledger. When it arises naturally I will allow it to come and go. Sometimes ot stays for a bit. Thats OK too.

It's all a bit of a theory really. My meditations; I don't imagine anything or use my volition in any way. I am there and I notice what happens.

I call it truthfulness because it's revealing of my nature. Not what gurus are preaching. I have no wish to persue second hand dreams... I mean, I'm a cautious person and I know people have desires and I don't want to appeal to that by tempting them with woo woos. I'm not one to encourage the interpersonal comparisons that inspires. Everyone's on their own trip man.

This my way of illustrating the principle: One can use the breath meditation, for example. Notice the breath. Not some breath prescribed by yogi mun sri sri googieyama, no, just this breath as it is as it already occurs. Not a volitionally consciously controlled breath, just the subconsciously naturally occuring breath, as it occurs to 'you'..

[Belle]

Truthfulness to what tho? Yourself? I would say "to thine own self be true" (have I got that phrase right?).

I'm not sure if there is a truth on this world, it all feels rather subjective to me.

Are you talking about authenticity? Something I find hard ??

[Gem]

Truthfulness to what tho? Yourself? I would say "to thine own self be true" (have I got that phrase right?).

I'm not sure if there is a truth on this world, it all feels rather subjective to me.

Are you talking about authenticity? Something I find hard ??

It's just that people know when they tell a lie and they know when they tell the truth. When one knows that they know what truthfulness is. Sometimes a little white lie is best though, but we know whan that is needed too. It's still said with pure intentions though.

People seek the truth as though it a very very important thing, yet they know if they lie or tell the truth. The ability of honesty is there, so the truth must already be known.

How much courage does it take to be completely truthful though? Not to others. Truthful within ones self?

[Seawolf]

Acceptance for me is just realizing it's all data in the mind and yes it comes after the thought or emotion. Acceptance isn't enough for me, I also address the thought and emotion. It's a part of my mind and no one elses. It's come up to my attention for some reason. There's something going on inside me. What exactly, I don't know, but I let it know I'm not going to reject it anymore. I'm sorry I've ignored you for so long.

It's not always pleasent when things start coming up as a result, but I have to do this, I don't really have a choice anymore.

[Belle]

It's just that people know when they tell a lie and they know when they tell the truth. When one knows that they know what truthfulness is. Sometimes a little white lie is best though, but we know whan that is needed too. It's still said with pure intentions though.

People seek the truth as though it a very very important thing, yet they know if they lie or tell the truth. The ability of honesty is there, so the truth must already be known.

How much courage does it take to be completely truthful though? Not to others. Truthful within ones self?

Thanks Gem. I was confusing the truth we speak and do - to The Great Truth, the spiritual truths, the mysteries.

But yes, I know the subtle differences and the feeling of telling a lie, it makes me doubt the authenticity of the other.

I believe however, that there people who can lie to themselves - at least for a time.

[Gem]

Thanks Gem. I was confusing the truth we speak and do - to The Great Truth, the spiritual truths, the mysteries.

But yes, I know the subtle differences and the feeling of telling a lie, it makes me doubt the authenticity of the other.

I believe however, that there people who can lie to themselves - at least for a time.

People just say 'The Great Truth' for their own particular purposes. Usually it's to paint themselves in spiritual colours so that others will stand in awe of them. Sometimes they say it to make it seem like something very far away.

In my case I prefer to talk on things that people know. What it is to be truthful is almost impossible to describe, but everyone knows it. Honesty is the all important way to build trust.

Richard Feynman said 'You must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool'.

Truthfulness is very hard in the midst of hope, desire and temptation. People always make up stories that justify the dishonest things they do. The stories enable them to hide behind a morality... and the abuser always has tricks and will name hurtful actions 'tough love' or 'it's for the best' or even 'look what you made me do'.

Living without stories is a hard life. There is nothing to hide behind, and one needs to face things they do purely by their own conscience, and that's when you know that hurting another hurts yourself, but it's worse, because you also feel the remorse too.

Being truthful refines ones sense of conscience; it enables a very high degree of integrity. Strong integrity leads to pure intentions and intentions precede actions, therefore, it's truthfulness that inspires one to make the best choices.

[merrie]

Being truthful to yourself is being ready to face your ego with courage and acceptance. You may have to knock the brick house down and rebuild again.

[Belle]

Gem this is interesting, very current for me. I am busy discovering what my own truth is, from a place that is not marred or influenced by others - I'm so easily taken in. But now, from a position on my own I can find my truth.

Well, I say on my own, I have a few good friends who are kind and helpful and wise, and I have this forum which helps me find out what resonates and what makes my soul sing.

It's currently quite exhausting - but yes it will be worth it.

[Seawolf]

Being truthful to yourself is being ready to face your ego with courage and acceptance. You may have to knock the brick house down and rebuild again.
That's'the most important and most difficult thing to do. We seem to have an innate fear response to being honest with ourselves. What do we fear?

[Belle]

That's'the most important and most difficult thing to do. We seem to have an innate fear response to being honest with ourselves. What do we fear?

I wish I knew :-/

[Gem]

It being truthful. I know what that is. Everyone does. I can't say it's one thing or another thing or explain it as this or that. The reasons that truthfulness is 'the way' can be outlined, but what that 'way' is can not. People will decide that themselves.

[merrie]

That's'the most important and most difficult thing to do. We seem to have an innate fear response to being honest with ourselves. What do we fear?

We fear outselves. Seeing ourselves as we really are, not who we think we are. This is a pondering subject in itself. If we want a religious perspective it may be, "What is the condition of our souls"? Sometimes I think this is why some people fear death of self. To lose ourselves is to lose our identity, which can be a very frightening thought.

[Seawolf]

We fear outselves. Seeing ourselves as we really are, not who we think we are. This is a pondering subject in itself. If we want a religious perspective it may be, "What is the condition of our souls"? Sometimes I think this is why some people fear death of self. To lose ourselves is to lose our identity, which can be a very frightening thought.
People here in the US are terrified of death, you see it all throughout the culture. We're obsessed with it. We love a religion that says we'll get to live after death. We throw away our elderly because we don't want to be reminded that we're gonna get old and die.

[merrie]

[QUOTE=Seawolf]People here in the US are terrified of death, you see it all throughout the culture. We're obsessed with it. We love a religion that says we'll get to live after death. We throw away our elderly because we don't want to be reminded that we're gonna get old and die.[/QUOTE

Yes, Death, the grand finale of life

I remember the song,
"Is that all there is?" So fatalistic, but haunting in its rendition by Peggy Lee

I remember when I was a very little girl, our house caught on fire.
I'll never forget the look on my father's face as he gathered me up
in his arms and raced through the burning building out to the pavement.
I stood there shivering in my pajamas and watched the whole world go up in flames.
And when it was all over I said to myself, "Is that all there is to a fire?"

Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

And when I was 12 years old, my father took me to the circus, the greatest show on earth.
There were clowns and elephants and dancing bears
And a beautiful lady in pink tights flew high above our heads.
And as I sat there watching the marvelous spectacle
I had the feeling that something was missing.
I don't know what, but when it was over,
I said to myself, "Is that all there is to a circus?"

Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

Then I fell in love, with the most wonderful boy in the world.
We would take long walks by the river or just sit for hours gazing into each other's eyes.
We were so very much in love.
Then one day, he went away. And I thought I'd die -- but I didn't.
And when I didn't I said to myself, "Is that all there is to love?"

Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing

I know what you must be saying to yourselves.
If that's the way she feels about it why doesn't she just end it all?
Oh, no. Not me. I'm in no hurry for that final disappointment.
For I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you,
when that final moment comes and I'm breathing my lst breath, I'll be saying to myself,

Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

In contrast to "Is that all there is", the comforting hymn - "By and By"

We are tossed and driven
on the restless sea of time;
somber skies and howling tempests
oft succeed a bright sunshine;
in that land of perfect day,
when the mists are rolled away,
we will understand it better by and by.
Refrain:
By and by, when the morning comes,
when the saints of God are gathered home,
we'll tell the story how we've overcome,
for we'll understand it better by and by.

2. We are often destitute
of the things that life demands,
want of food and want of shelter,
thirsty hills and barren lands;
we are trusting in the Lord,
and according to God's word,
we will understand it better by and by.
(Refrain)

3. Trials dark on every hand,
and we cannot understand
all the ways of God would lead us
to that blessed promised land;
but he guides us with his eye,
and we'll follow till we die,
for we'll understand it better by and by.
(Refrain)

[Seawolf]

Our inability to be honest with ourselves could be related to our fear of death. There are cultures that don't fear death like we do, and they seem to know who they are and can say what they mean. We're fake in comparison, we seem to run around not knowing who we are or what we want.. like some fear is blinding us. We replace honesty with fake plastic **** and think we love it, but it's doesn't satisfy.

[Gem]

Being truthful an in being honest with yourself... When one is honest they find they can walk with confidence and trust their own selves more, and continual truthfulness progressively builds on that. As that strength is built, fear can be faced more resolutely and more and moreso be overcome.