Self-sabotaging and self-punishment

[Sarian]

Do you believe one can do these things without even realizing it, due to conditioning? How do you stop?

[Xan]

Yes... these kinds of negative patterns are usually unconscious. As one becomes more aware of them the process of healing and change has begun.

You can change patterns like these by looking more closely into the feelings underneath... like self-judgment and worthiness, imitating emotional patterns of parents, and so on.... then finding ways to let them heal and release into self-acceptance, self-valuing and self-love.


Xan

[Sarian]

I know as a child I had punished myself. I never thought too much about the sabotaging aspect until my adult life, and even so, first with weight...I would do very well, after childbirth for example, but then I would blow it, but one day I realized I was crying as I was doing so, as though to punish and sabotage. They seem like the same thing.

When things have been starting to go very well in my life, I find something in me changes. I feel a fear, I get anxious. Then I've ruined it. But I have to say not all the time, sometimes I just get upset and tired of taking the blame, but yet, i can't deal with the consequences, as though even if I don't punish myself, others will make me pay and I have to take the blame, even if it's not my fault, just to make peace.

God, I'm a sick @!%W#$

[Silver]

I know as a child I had punished myself. I never thought too much about the sabotaging aspect until my adult life, and even so, first with weight...I would do very well, after childbirth for example, but then I would blow it, but one day I realized I was crying as I was doing so, as though to punish and sabotage. They seem like the same thing.

When things have been starting to go very well in my life, I find something in me changes. I feel a fear, I get anxious. Then I've ruined it. But I have to say not all the time, sometimes I just get upset and tired of taking the blame, but yet, i can't deal with the consequences, as though even if I don't punish myself, others will make me pay and I have to take the blame, even if it's not my fault, just to make peace.

God, I'm a sick @!%W#$

No, I know exactly how you feel (If I may say that)! Somehow, some of our life experiences bring on / heighten our insecurities, imo. And then sometimes it just gets over-inflated for some reason. I think the EFT would help me in situations like this. And just being really good and kind to one's self. It's not always easy to get ourselves on an even keel.
:hug:

[Sarian]

I've tried the EFT stuff, but it never worked for me. I find myself thinking about that process too much and how much it annoys me lol.

Right now I have someone who is behaving extremely cold and withdrawn from me because I blew up yesterday. Everything just got too much. But I guess I shouldn't have done it, but I'm wondering if I did it on purpose because things were going well until it all went wrong lol. My fault as usual it all went wrong...

[Silver]

Ohhh, I've wrung my hands over a situation just like that recently - yeah...

And now, everything's pretty much back to normal. Which is to say, not perfect!

[Enya]

Self-sabotage and punishment are more common than you might believe and entirely unconscious... until you realise what's going on! Even then, it takes some hard work and determination to change the conditioning which creates such patterns. You might find some help in Caroline Myss's book 'Sacred Contracts' which lists and helps you determine some of the mental/emotional archtypes which drive us all. The Child, Victim, Saboteur and Prostitute are four types which everyone has. I also found some interesting insights when I did a simple websearch under 'Self-Sabotage'.

[Sarian]

Sorry you've been through it too, SG.

Enya, yeah, I see that I do it, and thanks for the book reference, and the websearch.

I feel like I'm paying for it this time. Yet if I did the cold treatment, I'd get raked over the coals for it.

[amy green]

I fully support Xan's post here (#2); am sure she has dealt with this issue in others.

I used to self-sabotage (a little) in my teens. It was to do with lack of self-worth then, i.e. low self-esteem. If something happened that reflected a significant improvement to my life, I would get scared since it didn't fit with the mental image I had of myself - put bluntly, I didn't think I deserved it and so I'd inevitably jinx it. I knew how to deal with the old, dysfunctional me but I wasn't ready to be different/healthy at that time. Don't quite know how I got out of that .... think finding my feet, being assertive, gaining confidence and feeling supported by others (being popular) really all helped.

Xan mentions how you can heal this situation (in her post above).

[Silver]

I fully support Xan's post here (#2); am sure she has dealt with this issue in others.

I used to self-sabotage (a little) in my teens. It was to do with lack of self-worth then, i.e. low self-esteem. If something happened that reflected a significant improvement to my life, I would get scared since it didn't fit with the mental image I had of myself - put bluntly, I didn't think I deserved it and so I'd inevitably jinx it.

................



Yes, exactly ~ jinxing one's self is definitely what happens. It's like a superstition created because of the low estimation of one's self/worthiness.

[Sarian]

I recall times as a child I punished myself, mostly when I say that, I mean I denied myself anything good. I was ridiculed on a daily basis by certain people to try and mold me to their desire and when I failed or was obstinate, I never heard the end of it, and on top of that humiliation was used. So I do know I would deny myself anything nice or pleasurable, fun, good food, as a kid teen. I hated it. I would feel uptight and go secretly cry. I didn't know what to do with the pain I felt.

Apparently, now I'm getting all upset again, but I often wondered why when things were going so well, then they weren't. I could not figure out why. I don't know if triggers set them off, other people and things going on in my life, or subconsciously I do this to myself. I want it to stop.

But all that said, I also realize I will take other people's blame. They could do something, but to keep the peace and/or bring about peace, I will take the blame.

I wholeheartedly hear you on the jinxing.

[amy green]

Sarian - I hope you find ways of combating this. Xan expresses how this can be tackled in her post (#2);

You saying you denied yourself pleasure reminded me of exactly this ....I wrote about it in a short story here. It describes how I turned it around. It was a major turning point for me - previously I had a fatalistic mindset and I learnt how to embrace and apply freewill. (I've never looked back and have had an established positive mindset now for over 30 years).

Should you want to read this story (principally about unrequited love and depression but it hinges on the denying pleasure aspect), it's in the short stories section here, page 2 called "A Leap Of Faith".

[Sarian]

Thanks Amy, I'll check it out. I'm feeling pretty miserable. Ugh. :-(

[Xan]

My own negative pattern wasn't so much self-sabotage as self-criticism and judgment. I didn't give myself an inch without feeling wrong in one way or another.

But the core of it is the same... lack of self-acceptance and self-love, and a low sense one's own worth and value.

It took a long time for me to work my way out of that, but these days there are much more effective methods.


Xan

[Sarian]

I just want to stop it. I'm not even aware until it's too late. Then I go into a self-hate binge, like now...but all that said, I'm also struggling with the fact that I also take the blame from others...it's just as bad. I'm such an a ss.

[Xan]

To stop a self-hate binge you need an alternative to shift into.

It might be stopping and breathing and choosing to accept it all
or stopping and just letting go in the moment
or stopping then saying "I love myself anyway" and letting yourself feel it
or turning your attention into the real You, underneath all that
or some other new way of being with yourself in your mind and heart.

Self hatred is a tough one, and it's more wide spread than most people think.

Here's a short video you may find helpful, Sarian... Gangaji "Self Hatred" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwfIE1ilio (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.youtube.com%2525252525252Fwatch%252525252525 3Fv%2525252525253DWpwfIE1ilio)


Xan

[blackraven]

Do you believe one can do these things without even realizing it, due to conditioning? How do you stop?

Sarian – I do believe people can do things without realizing it. Every major success I’ve had in life, I’ve sabotaged it by not consciously processing the consequences of bad decision making. I don’t know if I was conditioned or not, but I wasn’t really parented growing up. My mother was an absent troubled alcoholic who snuck out to bars while my Dad worked three jobs. Neither of them was around much so I was the pseudo-parent for my younger sisters. It was really a free-for-all household where you just figured things out on your own and didn’t ask questions. Anytime I ever enjoyed anything good in my youth, my mom found a way to own it herself or tarnish it. I started to expect life to turn out “not nice” and so when things were going smooth when I was an adult I always managed to mess up. It’s almost like a bad impulse or a tick that comes on automatically. Then I look back with guilt and say, “Why did I do that? There I went again? How am I going to clean that up? I have gained more control of this self-sabotaging over time by becoming a recluse for the most part and meditating frequently. I only recommend the later. I would say introspection, self-acceptance and reconditioning are the key.

Blackraven

[amy green]

It may take time, persistence and dedication but I believe that a subconscious process (e.g. sabotage) can gradually be made aware of by being more mindful/watchful of what we feel and how we react. Having the keen desire/motivation to change is key and makes this changeover (from subconscious to conscious) more possible.

[Sarian]

Thank you all for advice. I've been thinking more and more on this. It's when I don't realize what I'm doing is when it's more problematic, but that said, if I do, the self-hate is so strong.

I try to pull apart what exactly do I hate about myself, because over the last decade I've come to realize I really do like who I am. That is great in itself.

I told a friend of mine here that one thing I realized (or again have gotten conditioned to), was that happy doesn't last, and anytime things are going well for me, I think I stop breathing almost. Fear, if not panic sets in because right after the happy is something bad. I think as well, along with the sabotaging and maybe this is me again sabotaging and bringing it on myself, is that fear or my thoughts that happy doesn't last, things going right doesn't last...

Know what I mean?

[amy green]

Sarian - I kind of get what you're saying here. Basically you don't trust the good feeling to last. I have a positive mindset which is just as well since my current life predicament is pretty grim (am a full-time carer for my mother). So happy times are few and far between; my usual, on-going state is quite neutral, i.e. not charged either way. Maybe we perceive the "something bad" category differently. I know life will chuck obstacles (which I perceive as tests/lessons) constantly my way and I try to give every one my best shot ... not saying I am always gracious!!

The feeling I get from your post above is that, yeah you'll be happy but the tough times are what you seem to be more familiar with, i.e. it feels like you anticipate them and then, when they come, maybe you get in confirmation mode and feel this is your lot (the fatalistic mindset I speak of in that story I mentioned).

Unfortunate events will occur but, how much we make of them, is directly within our grasp/choice. Will we buy into the upheaval, i.e. make a meal of it or refuse to be flustered and deal with it as best we can? I have had an anti-social neighbour who has harassed me constantly for 8 years (trashing my garden, trespassing, vandalising). Totally unprovoked (unless you count reporting her). I don't have a victim's mentality so she can't oppress me. Oppression requires our permission. I am a survivor. I hope you are too Sarian and that you learn new/better coping mechanisms.

Feel free to PM me if you think I can help you further with this.

[Sarian]

Hi Amy. Thanks. I didn't think I had a victim mentality because I really can't stand that place. I know I have had some dandy pity parties in my day and to present when it gets too much, but I can't stay there because I detest them so much.

I'm thinking this all through as I write, some patterns. I figured it must be me in many ways, but I also realize that I lived with a pr*ck for a long, long time and finally got a spine and got rid of him and he would always work it that it was my fault...everything someway had it's roots back to me as the cause...plus I had people in my growing up years who did same. I often try to figure out how I could have been so foolish and wound up with a man just as bad as some in my life before him?

But I think I go in cycles. I wonder if it has somehow taken some mental route, some groove so deep I don't know how to fill it? I'm pretty upset over this. When I'm okay, I feel fabulous. But I've mentioned this to my best friend that I feel something coming on, it makes me sick...I have noticed this and I've practically pleaded with him to help me make it stop before it starts...

I've had this talk with him time and again and here I am out in the cold. And I lost it and corked off.

I really don't know what to say anymore. I feel stupid in all this. Trying to figure this mess called me out.

[Xan]

What a good recognition, Sarian, that basically you do like yourself!

It's only a part of your mind or psyche that has learned self-sabotage and self-rejection. When that part of you shows up, rather than continuing the pattern by rejecting It, you might treat it with healing acceptance and even love... like a hurt child.


Xan

[amy green]

Sarian - don't feel so despondent. Your posts indicate that you are becoming conscious/aware of this negative process in you; this is the start of the healing process I feel. You're on your way girl! It may be a long road but you'll benefit from every stage/insight. Trust that you can do this.

Whilst we're in this self-sabotaging mode, on a sub-conscious level, we make relations with those that reinforce our low self-esteem. Good to hear that you don't have a victim's mentality - so many do and don't realise that this is their choice, i.e. that something can be done about it. So glad that you "grew a spine" and left him. That's a self-validation, self-preservation act. The more you spend time validating yourself, i.e. acknowledging and reinforcing your virtues, the more likely you are to make better future choices in everything. Finding appropriate, effective affirmations that resonate with you should prove beneficial. I emphasise the word resonate since, if the affirmation is too far-fetched it won't "take"/have an effect. Maybe you can prepare a good affirmation to say at times of stress that would ease the situation?

I suggest that when the next hurdle comes, if you can, refuse to go fully downhill; if you can let the situation "wash over you"/disassociate from the drama a little this will serve you well. Buddhism employs the technique of emotional detachment which I have found invaluable - I don't know whether you are familiar with this.

[Sarian]

Xan, what doesn't help is when someone in your life that you love continues to make you pay for the sabotaging. Cold shoulder, cold attitude. I'm not good at combating that. It messes with my head.

[Sarian]

Hi Amy, turned my phone on, as I shut it off all night. I have to at times, but when I turned it on, another cold message and a cold text. It feels like he reached in and ripped my heart out. I think how many times do I have to apologize, how many times do I have to explain things and that I'm working them over. I feel like I'm being doubly punished and I don't want to be, so I shut my phone off so I don't keep looking, or don't call. I want to just shut down. I want to go back to that kid again who had walls up so damn high no one could get to me.

I know I sound foolish, I just have to vent. I'm sick of crying, I'm sick of holding my breath, I'm sick of feeling fear, I'm sick of that alone feeling. I'm sick of taking blame.

[amy green]

I sympathise that he must be making your life hell - is he a sadist? Or maybe angry that you're not in his life to use as a punchbag so the phone is his only means of continuing this unhealthy pattern. Of course he would love knowing he is having this effect on you. It's the oppression scenario I spoke of in my other post. So, whether or not you are accurately perceiving it, you ARE currently in the mode of having a victim's mentality if he can do this to you. Refusing to let him have this effect would be a good start to getting out of it. I know it's easier for me to say and, that where strong feelings are involved, this is hard.

Two things occurred to me about the phonecalls. You could try to not listen to his messages and delete his texts without reading them (you know what they will say so why go there?). This would be an act of gaining control/mastery of the situation, i.e. empowering yourself. Refusing to be oppressed, i.e. you may not be able to readily change the situation but you can choose how you deal with it so it minimises its effect on you. I'm a past master at this!

You don't need to take the phone off - you could just let him phone and try this method....I used to get hoax calls, (silent ones) following on from when I reported the anti-social neighbour. What worked was just leaving my phone off the hook and going about my daily activities. She couldn't then get her phone to disconnect (when she wanted to) since it's still hooked up to my phone! Infuriated her ... could hear her click, click, clicking trying to disengage the phone. Eventually I got the siren tone (via the operator?) so I then hung up. Never heard from her again, i.e. no more hoax calls. You don't say what country you are in (in your profile), so don't know whether or not this would work/would be helpful to you. If you could get a man to answer the phone even better - might put him off.

Why don't you try and distract yourself Sarian - fill your time with healing, pleasant, beneficial things. Music? Pamper yourself. You seem to be in dire need of such activities. I hope you have a good support network of friends that you can draw from at this harrowing time.

[sound]

Empowering others doesnt involve telling them what they should do ...

[Sarian]

I feel bad talking about him this way. He's always been there, I went off on a tangent, Saturday. (self-sabotaging) but insecurity reared its ugly head as well. I realize the bad **** I do, been working on it. I wonder if I'm in some sick self-sabotaging viscious cycle that I don't know how to get out of. This person, I've known him for almost 20 years. It's like nothing I've ever experienced. It's queer too because I dreamt of him as a kid, knew his name and so forth and even how we came to be. It's just weird.

He's got issues....which you know, when I first met him, the very first day, out of my mouth was a question for him ...

As for his phone calls...I have to shut my phone off at times because of other reasons I can't get into at times. My friend, well, he's always been a wonderful support, but because he's p*ssed off at me, I'm getting the cold treatment really bad, and I have to shamefully admit, it's driving me nuts. I don't deal with it. I feel like he's ...well, I don't feel...I know he's sending a message loud and clear either by not calling me and his silence (he always calls me, he calls and texts me good morning with loving words and affection...morning, noon and night... so to get total silence, it hurts, and sends me off the deep end. I can do same, but I don't last long, it's not my nature. He's mad, tired. I understand, but I said you want to call it quits, just say so, don't do this to me. He always says he can't. I said I'm not imprisoning you, he says he would be haunted by me. it's such a strange relationship. It is the most marvelous one, but it's got pain too... so honestly, I think it started with my self-sabotaging because it's been going better than ever and yet I've been mucking it up too, but I can't say he's spotless in the matter.

I know it's hard to make sense of what I'm writing. I'm trying to sort it all out. Got to go to work for a little bit now though. Thanks for replies.

[amy green]

Empowering others doesnt involve telling them what they should do ...

Is this comment directed at me, sound? I am just offering advice here not giving out orders/commands. The word empowering (in #26) was offered in the context of what had [U]occurred to me that she could do via the phone. If you read my post it says "two things occurred to me", then goes on to suggest a course of action....i.e. NOT please do this!!! Bit of a difference, don't you think?

Anyhow, I am done here - your post has put me off posting here. I really dislike being misunderstood and got wrong. My intentions are well meaning. I'm sorry if you think I have overstepped the mark but I don't see that I have.

[Enya]

Sarian, you may benefit from good counselling or clinical hypnosis along the way but they are only some of the tools you can call upon. Part of your pattern is classic 'people-pleasing' and that's a tricky one to deal with because its roots are in your childhood need to keep the peace and be 'a good girl'. Please tap into your inner strength (which is emerging to help you face your destructive patterns) and keep reminding yourself that I AM GOOD ENOUGH!

You're taking the right steps toward wholeness and healing. Resolve not to allow the issues of others (your 'friend') to pull you back. You cannot change another - you can only change yourself. Focus on that and you will, I promise. I've done it and you can too. :hug2:

[sound]

Is this comment directed at me, sound?

No not all amy ... my comment was inspired by your post, but certainly not directed only at you ... if you want to take it on board though thats up to you ... it was also for Sarian because I can see that she isn't really asking for advice or counselling on the open forum, but rather just choosing to share some of what she has/is experiencing.

Whether it be here, or in private, my comment still stands ...

[amy green]

Sound - you say Sarian isn't really asking for advice or counselling. That may have been the case initially but, if you read through the subsequent pages, she becomes more upset and opens out her heart more i.e. seems in need of help/feedback. After all this is a thread so it invites responses. Others have offered help here too, not just myself. It would seem cold just to read of her suffering and not respond in some way wouldn't it? Advice differs from counselling. Counselling is not feasible in a forum format (although it may look to you like it has a counselling element to it).

Anyway, you will be pleased to know that I have learnt from your curt comment. I will indeed be more wary of how I phrase my feedback and ensure that what I offer totally fits within the realm of suggestions. That said, I make no apology for caring about the suffering of others and I will always respond to this if I see that it is appropriate to do so....it's second nature to me.

[Xan]

Xan, what doesn't help is when someone in your life that you love continues to make you pay for the sabotaging. Cold shoulder, cold attitude. I'm not good at combating that. It messes with my head.
I know very well what you mean, Sarian. For me it meant I had to get stronger, more determined to go the way of my heart.


Xan

[sound]

I will indeed be more wary of how I phrase my feedback and ensure that what I offer totally fits within the realm of suggestions.
I am not sure we can ever be 'too' aware ...


That said, I make no apology for caring about the suffering of others and I will always respond to this if I see that it is appropriate to do so....it's second nature to me.

No one is chastising you for caring about others ... I dont see any need for apologies either ... it (caring) is second nature for me also ... surely my original comment has as much value as your advice for others? It fits in there somewhere as well ...

[amy green]

I am not sure we can ever be 'too' aware ...
I said I would be wary i.e. more cautious.



No one is chastising you for caring about others ... I dont see any need for apologies either ... it (caring) is second nature for me also ... surely my original comment has as much value as your advice for others? It fits in there somewhere as well ...

Then you will understand that to offer help, where there is a perceived need, is natural. I sense that you are not comfortable with giving advice....do you think this is offered from a superior position I wonder? I have had experiences of self-sabotage so have insight into that condition and, hence, feel able to help out. I'm just sharing knowledge that has been beneficial in the hope of alleviating suffering. That's a spiritual act as I see it.

[BlueSky]

I know as a child I had punished myself. I never thought too much about the sabotaging aspect until my adult life, and even so, first with weight...I would do very well, after childbirth for example, but then I would blow it, but one day I realized I was crying as I was doing so, as though to punish and sabotage. They seem like the same thing.

When things have been starting to go very well in my life, I find something in me changes. I feel a fear, I get anxious. Then I've ruined it. But I have to say not all the time, sometimes I just get upset and tired of taking the blame, but yet, i can't deal with the consequences, as though even if I don't punish myself, others will make me pay and I have to take the blame, even if it's not my fault, just to make peace.

God, I'm a sick @!%W#$

I remember reading once that the majority of failures happen right before success would happen. In other words, many quit college in their 4th year.
I'm sure we all have our own reasons to fall into that pattern and I am sure that you can figure this out and get past it. At least know that you are not alone.
Blessings, James

[sound]

Then you will understand that to offer help, where there is a perceived need, is natural. I sense that you are not comfortable with giving advice....do you think this is offered from a superior position I wonder? I have had experiences of self-sabotage so have insight into that condition and, hence, feel able to help out. I'm just sharing knowledge that has been beneficial in the hope of alleviating suffering. That's a spiritual act as I see it.




First up, I am not questioning your intent, however I feel that when we start advising others, based on what we ourselves have experienced, we run the risk of making assumptions first, with which to base our 'advice' on. I prefer a strength-based approach, in private, if requested ... encouraging people to explore their options based on what they already know/understand/experience ... not based on what i know about myself and my experience ...

[amy green]

First up, I am not questioning your intent, however I feel that when we start advising others, based on what we ourselves have experienced, we run the risk of making assumptions first, with which to base our 'advice' on. I prefer a strength-based approach, in private, if requested ... encouraging people to explore their options based on what they already know/understand/experience ... not based on what i know about myself and my experience ...

Yes I thought I detected a resistance to offering advice in the forum. (It did feel a bit like you were sabotaging this - ironic, given the nature of this thread!)

So you prefer to do it privately and only if requested.....kind of limiting. I would find that immensely restrictive if I knew I could be of help.

Please bear in mind that lots of people here interact, give their opinions and experiences as a way of providing more knowledge into the nature of a given thread. A forum is set up to encourage open feedback via posts here. I work with what is said/given in the post that I am addressing, i.e. don't tend to make assumptions. Anyway, it's easy for anything that might be misunderstood to get rectified...I don't see the problem here. Also, whoever I offer advice to, would not be applying it without their own adaptation. Of course they will extrapolate what they find useful.

At least we both share the wish that people explore their own options. What I think you overlook is that they would do this anyway in the format of a thread. People are self-governing here...no-one is telling anyone which bits to heed. We are all capable of making our own decisions and choices based on information provided by others; this does not need monitoring - it occurs naturally anyway. I feel you are being unnecessarily overly protective and not acknowledging that people here have their own autonomy that they apply.

[COLOR]

[sound]

Yes I thought I detected a resistance to offering advice in the forum. (It did feel a bit like you were sabotaging this - ironic, given the nature of this thread!)

So you prefer to do it privately and only if requested.....kind of limiting. I would find that immensely restrictive if I knew I could be of help.

Please bear in mind that lots of people here interact, give their opinions and experiences as a way of providing more knowledge into the nature of a given thread. It's in the nature of this set-up/forum to encourage feedback openly via posts here. I work with what is said/given in the post that I am addressing, i.e. don'ttend to make assumptions. Anyway, it's easy for anything that might be misunderstood to get rectified...I don't see the problem here. Also, whoever I offer advice to, would not be applying it without their own adaptation. Of course they will extrapolate what they find useful.

At least we both share the wish that people explore their own options. What I think you overlook is that they would do this anyway in the format of a thread. People are self-governing here...no-one is telling anyone which bits to heed. We are all capable of making our own decisions and choices based on information provided by others; this does not need monitoring - it occurs naturally anyway. I feel you are being unnecessarily overly protective and not acknowledging that people here have their own autonomy that they apply.

So much for greater awareness. Many people prefer to give advice than take it ...

[amy green]

So much for greater awareness. Many people are better at giving advice than taking it ...

That's a cop-out...so what did I miss? If you expect me to only offer advice in the narrow way that you offer it, i.e. via PM and then only with a request....forget it!

[sound]

Why is it a cop out amy? I am not obligated to argue with you am I?

[sound]

I put forward my views ... I didn't demand anything of you ...

[sound]

Just for the record, for other readers, I did not attempt to 'sabotage' this thread, as suggested on the previous page. I have no reason to do that to Sarian, or anyone else. My original comment was well intended.

[amy green]

Why is it a cop out amy? I am not obligated to argue with you am I?

It's a cop out because you didn't explain what you meant by "so much for greater awareness". Anyway I've deduced to what you are referring to now (sigh). You misunderstood me when I explained that I would be more wary when offering advice, i.e. that it would be by way of suggestions so as to not be detected as telling someone what to do (which is not my style anyway). This is what I am proposing to do now since your original curt comment (that was an inaccurate observation in the first place anyway).

I hope you are clear about this situation now. I don't like arguing either. I realise you didn't attempt to sabotage the thread...if you read my post properly I say that this is what it felt like. That Sarian has stopped posting here should tell you something.

[Silver]

Just for the record, for other readers, I did not attempt to 'sabotage' this thread, as suggested on the previous page. I have no reason to do that to Sarian, or anyone else. My original comment was well intended.

Ahem.........for the record, I've read the whole thread and I didn't get the impression that you were trying to sabotage it, sound.

[sound]

That Sarian has stopped posting here should tell you something.

It tells me that Sarian has stopped posting here until she posts again ... nothing more ... assumptions of that nature are useless, and paint false pictures ...

[sound]

Ahem.........for the record, I've read the whole thread and I didn't get the impression that you were trying to sabotage it, sound.
Thanks SG ...

[amy green]

Ahem.........for the record, I've read the whole thread and I didn't get the impression that you were trying to sabotage it, sound.

Yes Silvergirl...and, if you read my post, I never said she did...I just said it felt like it. It was tongue-in-cheek, given the irony of this thread's topic.

I like Sound and admire her outspokenness - which I have a hefty dose of also. Unfortunately here, when she came out with her original criticism, it seems it was off the mark - i.e. an overreaction/misplaced.

People are well able to decide for themselves what to do with the info given in posts. Any potentially damaging info is taken care of by the mods here.

[Silver]

Yes Silvergirl...and, if you read my post, I never said she did...I just said it felt like it. It was tongue-in-cheek, given the irony of this thread's topic.

I like Sound and admire her outspokenness - which I have a hefty dose of also. Unfortunately here, when she came out with her original criticism, it seems it was off the mark - i.e. an overreaction/misplaced.

People are well able to decide for themselves what to do with the info given in posts. Any potentially damaging info is taken care of by the mods here.




That's great (not sarcastic:smile: ). Now, we can all sit back and relax a bit. Let it flow, what may come next.
:hug3:

[Sarian]

I just stopped posting because I had nothing else to say.

[amy green]

Well, glad that's cleared up! I was wondering why it stopped abruptly after Sound's post and my subsequent reply. :icon_eek: :smile: :rolleyes:

[Sarian]

No worries.

[sound]

Empowering others doesnt involve telling them what they should do ...

I wouldn't have a job if i didnt remember that golden rule ... :)

[amy green]

Empowering others doesnt involve telling them what they should do ...

I wouldn't have a job if i didnt remember that golden rule ... :)
O.K ...since you are intent on not letting go of this - WHERE precisely did I tell Sarian what to do? Since you said this directly after my post #26....please point out where I have sinned.

Also empowering others could be letting them decide what they want to glean from their posts, i.e. your protective intervention is unnecessary and insulting to their intelligence.

[sound]

lol its interesting how insistent you are on owning my comment ... where is your name attached to it? ...

[sound]

also ... why is my contribution any less relevant than yours amy? Someone may find it useful and not see it as criticism, or insulting ...

[amy green]

lol its interesting how insistent you are on owning my comment ... where is your name attached to it? ...

I don't own it at all - in fact I said that I had not overstepped the mark, i.e. found this comment baffling. :rolleyes:

[sound]

Well, why all the fuss and foot stamping and accusations lol ... why not ignore it if it doesn't apply ...

[amy green]

also ... why is my contribution any less relevant than yours amy? Someone may find it useful and not see it as criticism, or insulting ...

You go ahead sound. I found it to be an inaccurate, unnecessary intervention that insults the intelligence of who you are trying to protect. If they were indeed being told what to do, would this not occur to them without you having to point it out to them? Maybe you're protecting the dim-witted, who knows.

I'm done here. You keep going about (what seems like) a mission. If I were on the receiving end of being offered advice and someone criticising the said advice....think I know what I would find more useful. Haven't you got better things to do than criticise offered advice...really, it's quite pathetic.

[sound]

Well there you go ... surely it is up to other individuals to say whether their intelligence has been insulted ... how do you know that is how others feel?

[Xan]

If you don't mind my side comment, I preferred Sarian's topic to this argument about arguing. Yet there must be something to be learned from it... perhaps such as, the value of just letting it all go.


Xan

[Sarian]

I still want to just let go. Let go of everything and I don't know how.

At this moment right now, as well as too many other times in my life, I hate life. I just hate it...yet other times I see so much beauty in it, but not now...not now I don't.

[Xan]

For me letting go happens easiest with my breathing. Breathing in deeply into my belly, then letting go of the feeling energy with my exhale.

I don't push it out or away because that's just more rejection, but let my breath and feeling fall softly like a feather.

It takes a little practice to get used to it but what a benefit when we do.


Xan

[Dragonfly1]

I hear you Sarian, I really do,

Ive always been a self saboteur...I didnt know that I was until recently last 2-3 years, I punish with food and self neglect.....
Ive observed the pattern, cruel words and actions (and control) toward me by others and life partner, and by my own self (since childhood, neglect from grieving parents to begin with, I know now) = feelings of self loathing and of not being worthy or good enough... = feeding the body junk and sugar which result in more emotional pain.... and reinforcing the feeling of being unworthy of love and happiness....= not taking care of appearance and no motivation for life.....

I think I have always chosen a lifestyle and partners that create pain for me, is because it is in a 'comfort zone' for me, even if its not one that I like....its familiar so Ive stayed with it (mostly it was on a subconscious level until recently).....

Its what I believed it is what I deserved....I know better now....but it has taken all of my life to come to this place, opening up spiritually and allowing the Divine to help me....slowly slowly....im growing....

It was amazing to observe this phenomenon in myself......so sad to think one isnt worthy of love or caring and looking for ways to reinforce these feelings.....im glad now that I have witnessed it .......all I have to do now is overcome it......which is easier said than done........please be kind to me after my self expose'.......I think I am starting to realise that I am worthy of love and I deserve the best that life has to offer.....thank you God.....xx

[sesheta]

I want to just shut down. I want to go back to that kid again who had walls up so damn high no one could get to me.

I know I sound foolish, I just have to vent. I'm sick of crying, I'm sick of holding my breath, I'm sick of feeling fear, I'm sick of that alone feeling. I'm sick of taking blame.

Oh, Sarian, this made me get tears in my eyes!! I know exactly how that feels...I used to have really high walls, too...but once they came down, that was it (at least for the person who brought them down...) and now I can't put them back up :( Sometimes it would be so much easier, wouldn't it?
And yes, it does sometimes feel like it's all too much , I totally agree. But then again, we don't HAVE to take the blame. At least not all of it. If someone has hurt us, or is not giving us what we need, we do have the right to say to them "I deserve more." That is not being selfish - it's being honest and knowing that you are WORTH more. But it is hard to get to the point of actually believing it! I think a lot of it stems from fear: fear that we're not good enough - and fear that we'll lose this wonderful thing we found...yeah, that's a big one - the fear of losing it all.....
But we can't let that fear rule us - all we can do is try a little each day to re-program ourselves to change our thoughts, thus changing our behaviours.
****Now off I go to try to follow that advise....:redface: ****
You can do it, Sarian - I know you can - I have faith in you :hug2:

[sound]

Maybe you're protecting the dim-witted,

This post has played on my mind all day. I don't label people as 'dim-witted' ... that to me, is a derogatory term that i do not use ... it has no place here or anywhere else ... especially when describing people who I might consider are at a disadvantage and in need of protection.
Your vehemence toward me is disturbing. I hope you don't treat others like that if they decide not to take your advice.

What does interest me is whether or not you agree with my original statement, and if you do, then why did you find it so offensive?

[Dragonfly1]

I have been reading this thread and how it got derailed....I read your post sound, the original one, it seems someone appears to have taken strong offence to......to be honest.....I found NO fault with it......it was a comment that applies to anyone who may with all good intentions want to help with well meaning advice...that actually can be counter productive and at times may make the OP or anyone in her situation feel 'less than' because they can't emotionally be that strong.......its very easy to say what one should or shouldnt do when you haven't lived that life......I have myself been guilty of the 'you should do this'.....and i should know better......

[sound]

If you don't mind my side comment, I preferred Sarian's topic to this argument about arguing. Yet there must be something to be learned from it... perhaps such as, the value of just letting it all go.
Xan

Most definitely some learning in it for me Xan ... I don't feel the sidetrack was simply arguing about arguing, even though it may appear to be like that for others ... expressing is also a form of letting it go dont you feel?

[amy green]

[COLOR="Green"]You go ahead sound. I found it to be an inaccurate, unnecessary intervention that insults the intelligence of who you are trying to protect. If they were indeed being told what to do, would this not occur to them without you having to point it out to them? Maybe you're protecting the dim-witted, who knows.
[COLOR]

I just thought I'd put my remark into its proper context - so it is better understood. That Sound has to point out whether posts may be telling someone what to do (to safeguard the recipient from not realising this) is insulting to their intelligence ....people are self-governing, have a brain, can work this out for themself. That's what I meant - so I can only assume she chooses to point this out to people in case they may need her nudging?

Also her original comment didn't seem to apply to posts there - she couldn't say who was telling Sarian what to do...! I acknowledge Sound had a general point in her comment i.e. I said that I will ensure I offer suggestions (where appropriate). I have stopped doing so here.

For the record, I bear no ill will towards Sound and I dislike being misunderstood. Hence the need for this post - to clarify the issue. I don't wish to keep pursuing this so I hope Sound doesn't keep quoting my posts out of context. I really want this thread to be about its original topic.

[Dragonfly1]

................................................

[sound]

My comment was meant for anyone who it resonated with ... to assume it was only directed at those being given advice is incorrect ...

[Xan]

... expressing is also a form of letting it go dont you feel?

Maybe so, maybe not. It all depends on one's intention and if there's actual letting go the mind at some point


Xan

[sound]

Thanks for your understanding there dragonfly ... i will take the risk and mention it again on some other thread at some other time, if i feel it is relevant ... and just deal with the hate mail lol ...

[sound]

Maybe so, maybe not. It all depends on one's intention and if there's actual letting go the mind at some point
Xan

Yes ... well, I can tell you there was pure intent behind those original 12 little words ... what followed was a battle of the egos though unfortunately lol ... I realize that ... its crystal clear, and I am thinking that plenty of others do too ... the difference between letting loose and letting go perhaps :D

[sound]

I hope Sound doesn't keep quoting my posts out of context.

I didnt quote you out of context ... you used derogatory terminology in your efforts to defend your own stance ...

[amy green]

Whatever sound....I could say that quoting me out of context was a low blow. Hence why I included the full paragraph (#69) which makes more sense of my comment that you chose to isolate.

Shall we cease this now - it's tedious. If you stop baiting me in this way then I will have no need to address the matter. I hope you do continue to add your comments to other posts; that is your right - I have no problem with that at all. You seem to be implying that my responses may be coming from hate - #73 - (not so - hate is a strong emotion)...it just baffled me that you chose to randomly say it here when it didn't seem to apply.

Anyway (sigh) shall we drop this now...please!!!?

[sound]

Shall we cease this now - it's tedious.
No one is forcing you to respond to me … I am entitled to respond when you talk about me to the masses … I overhear you, obviously …

If you stop baiting me .
I am not baiting you … you are self-governed are you not?
I will have no need to address the matter. .
Once again, if you don’t want to keep having dialogue with me, then don’t keep having dialogue with me …
I hope you do continue to add your comments to other posts; that is your right - I have no problem with that at all.
I am not convinced you hope I keep responding lol and that isnt an issue for me but, nevertheless, it kind of goes without saying that it is my right to continue posting if thats what i decide to do … unfortunately even if you did have a problem with it, doesn’t mean I will just go away …
I'm sorry you saw my responses as coming from hate (it didn't - hate is a strong emotion)... .
How do you know I was making reference to you … I could have/still be receiving a truckload of nasty Pm’s … you are very quick to make assumptions about people based on very limited information …
it just baffled me that you chose to randomly say it here when it didn't seem to apply.
I know … you missed the point … and took it personally … it wasn’t just about you, believe it or not …

Shall we drop this now...please!!!?
Balls in your court …

[Sarian]

I hear you Sarian, I really do,

Ive always been a self saboteur...I didnt know that I was until recently last 2-3 years, I punish with food and self neglect.....
Ive observed the pattern, cruel words and actions (and control) toward me by others and life partner, and by my own self (since childhood, neglect from grieving parents to begin with, I know now) = feelings of self loathing and of not being worthy or good enough... = feeding the body junk and sugar which result in more emotional pain.... and reinforcing the feeling of being unworthy of love and happiness....= not taking care of appearance and no motivation for life.....

I think I have always chosen a lifestyle and partners that create pain for me, is because it is in a 'comfort zone' for me, even if its not one that I like....its familiar so Ive stayed with it (mostly it was on a subconscious level until recently).....

Its what I believed it is what I deserved....I know better now....but it has taken all of my life to come to this place, opening up spiritually and allowing the Divine to help me....slowly slowly....im growing....

It was amazing to observe this phenomenon in myself......so sad to think one isnt worthy of love or caring and looking for ways to reinforce these feelings.....im glad now that I have witnessed it .......all I have to do now is overcome it......which is easier said than done........please be kind to me after my self expose'.......I think I am starting to realise that I am worthy of love and I deserve the best that life has to offer.....thank you God.....xx
Hi Dragonfly:hug:

Honestly, I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown last night. I felt full of terror; I felt out of control. If I could have escaped from my skin, I would have. I was so bad off, I know I was crying on the phone and almost hysterical, but then I remember no more. Don't remember the conversation ending. This morning I was short-fused overwhelmed. Slowly calming down, but tears flow in an instant.

My friend said to me last night that he doesn't know how to feel about us because he can be so overcome with joy and happiness and love for me, and feel we are on the right track, but the next day comes and I'm changed. (self-sabotaging)...

All this said, I don't know how to stop it still. thank you for sharing your experience and what worked for you.:hug2:

[sound]

Morning Sarian :hug3:

[Sarian]

I want to just shut down. I want to go back to that kid again who had walls up so damn high no one could get to me.

I know I sound foolish, I just have to vent. I'm sick of crying, I'm sick of holding my breath, I'm sick of feeling fear, I'm sick of that alone feeling. I'm sick of taking blame.

Oh, Sarian, this made me get tears in my eyes!! I know exactly how that feels...I used to have really high walls, too...but once they came down, that was it (at least for the person who brought them down...) and now I can't put them back up :( Sometimes it would be so much easier, wouldn't it?
And yes, it does sometimes feel like it's all too much , I totally agree. But then again, we don't HAVE to take the blame. At least not all of it. If someone has hurt us, or is not giving us what we need, we do have the right to say to them "I deserve more." That is not being selfish - it's being honest and knowing that you are WORTH more. But it is hard to get to the point of actually believing it! I think a lot of it stems from fear: fear that we're not good enough - and fear that we'll lose this wonderful thing we found...yeah, that's a big one - the fear of losing it all.....
But we can't let that fear rule us - all we can do is try a little each day to re-program ourselves to change our thoughts, thus changing our behaviours.
****Now off I go to try to follow that advise....:redface: ****
You can do it, Sarian - I know you can - I have faith in you :hug2:
Sesheta, thank you. I'm sitting in my office trying to suck back tears. I'm just so damn overwhelmed with everything. I don't mean to be having this big disgusting pity party, but I feel stuck, I feel afraid. I feel out of control. I feel like I want to ditch the life I know and start over far, far away...but i can't with my kids...they need me.

I think what I'm extremely fearful of right now is that I have to change these things, and I want to change, but I'm afraid I don't know how. I don't know how to succeed before I ruin my life completely.

Don't feel ashamed about giving me advice. I really appreciate it. While I hate that you have to deal with this too, I dont' feel so alone in it.:hug:

[Sarian]

Morning Sarian :hug3:
Good morning, Sound! I just looked up above my last post and saw your good morning.:smile:

I'm at work and ugh, I just want to go home. then during my lunch hour, I have to leave 20 minutes early to go to my 2nd job and help them out, and try and finish within an hour. Ugh.

I just noticed something you bolded that another wrote and was surprised I had missed that...something about the dimwitted, apparently I'm thought of as a dimwit. Nice. I feel like one at times, but that's not the norm.

My head feels as though it's going to explode this morning and no one in this office has any pain reliever...

Have a happy day ((((((((((((sound))))))))))))))

[sound]

My head feels as though it's going to explode this morning and no one in this office has any pain reliever...

Have a happy day ((((((((((((sound))))))))))))))
Return blessings Sarian :hug3: get yourself hold of some watermelon or honeydew or somefink (if possible) for your melon :D it works every time! Have a brilliant day yourself yeah :)

[amy green]

I just noticed something you bolded that another wrote and was surprised I had missed that...something about the dimwitted, apparently I'm thought of as a dimwit. Nice. I feel like one at times, but that's not the norm.


Sarian - it occurred to me that you may have seen this comment as being directed at you... no, not at all. :smile: My post #69- on page 7 - will put it in the context that it was meant in. It was just generally trying to understand who sound's comment could be being applied to (that's all), since most people would know if they are being told what to do. Anyway, I acknowledge what sound has now explained, i.e. that the comment was meant for anyone it resonated with :rolleyes:

So sorry to read you are in such bad shape...I do feel for you but have been put off further posting since sound randomly offered that comment....although not directed solely at me, the subsequent ding-dong has soured things here for me. I hope you come through this soon Sarian - that you continue to gain insight, help and support here. I wish you well. :hug3:

[Dragonfly1]

Sarian, (((hugs))) hun....I wish I could make it better for you I really do.....hang in there, I feel things will improve for you.....just take it a minute at a time....sometimes thats all we can do to make it through....my thoughts and love are with you.....xxxxxxx

[Xan]

the difference between letting loose and letting go perhaps

ah ha... good point...


Well, now it seems the Punch 'n' Judy has turned into... "Let's stop arguing. You first." :wink:

I see nothing wrong with a little knockabout now and then between. Just raising the question... "How long and for what?" (And when does the letting go start?)


Xan

[sound]

Just raising the question... "How long and for what?" (And when does the letting go start?)
Xan

You would probably get as many different answers as there are participants Xan ...
For me ... as long as it takes for realizations to be 'made' ... time is not an important element in that sense ... and re: the letting go ... when one is ready I suppose ...

[Smiler]

Dearest Sarian :hug3:~ Its very late here in OZ ..12.18 am to be exact..I just wanted to post a few thoughts your way if that's okay~ I have not read through the responses Of others .

What A great honest Thread You have started.. Good on you ~ Did you know the majority of people self sabotage in some area in their life ~ Some don't even realize it.( Ever). So first off you are very human and Lovely as usual.

The journey of seeing with awareness ..where we have travelled in life .. can hit us Fresh like it just happened ..especially when stress is in our life.. Its like one stress will then recall all other events that have harm hurt and depressed us.

I call This my pity party time ( and yes I allow myself to have that time ..the secret for me was to put a time on it .. maybe a day ..an hour ..2 minutes ..then I had to grab some happy ... a laugh ... a joke ..a smile ..ohh this time I went a week ..a beautiful friend made me laugh and my hidden pity party was over ).

What I see in all yr threads is what a kind loving gentle woman you are..
You give to others who are hurting ..over your own hurt .. u have great compassion Sarian..as u probadly know there is a lot on this planet hurting and Really there not so many givers after all ..For if u observe ..some people hurt and can see no one else at all. Yep its Just them ..they don't want to help any one ..!

Your An Empath .. and often as a child people who are empaths can become the nurturer in the family... a child does not have the solutions to grown up problems ..yet on some level may try to fix things or help...the child.. can absorbed the feelings of those problems and feel accountable..especially if they wanted every one happy.if that does not occur. what develops is Guilt ~ Guilt is the tricky monster ..Like why feel guilty
..why ??? There is No answer .. If U know yr intent ..have done no harm ..Guilt is a wasted emotion on the innocent.

There's another turn that may reveal itself in the years of being the empath and nurturer ..we can slip into feelings that truly aren't nor ever where ours ..hence .. its OUR fault ..when some one else is not happy !

.. For ingrained in the adult is the child who has absorbed all the emotions over a life time and simply takes on fixing things ..ie :being others emotions.

Guilt arises when The Adult tries to stop ..Example " hang on that;s not my stuff"
People get use to emotional nurturers very quickly and certainly do not want to let go on a conscious or unconscious level ( why because then they would have to look at them self ..and that thought terrifies a Lot of people )
so they hit the invisible cords of the Empath ..through emotional manipulation.

Try Sarian ... a simple trick .. when u feel you are to blame .. close yr eyes some where quiet .. tell yr brain to Shut up (lol ..try It ay my friend) then Take Three Deep breaths ... see in yr minds eyes ..suitcases of emotions ..some are yrs some are not .. Just look .. take another three slow deeper breath's and look at what is truly yrs .. then in yr mind gently hand back the other suitcases to the owner ).

:hug3: whats needed then is Some good .. Soul music .. to kick up my heels and shake the booty music .. and then get on with your day . As long habitual thoughts come back .. be firm and state " Oi ..I have done that ". simply do some thing else.. not think ..just do ..example ..Hug a tree.


Gosh I am rabbiting on ~ Just as well I have no vow of silence ay ..
I hope I am not on the wrong page with this thread.

God Loves yah ..so do I and many many others ..:hug3:
You are making a map for others that suffer to follow... for you are not hiding Sarian ... YOU have the gutz the strength and the inner knowing to be who you ever you wish to be.

Must sleep .. (((( Hugs)))) xxxxx

[Silver]

What a lovely, exceptional post, Smiler.

[Sarian]

Hi Smiler, sorry it's taken me long to get back to your post. It is lovely and exceptional as SG stated. It's timely for me to read again because "it" started back up yesterday. I feel it heavy on me like bricks being placed upon me one by one. Ciderblocks more like it. I wore myself down trying to please two bosses this week as one needed me during the time I had to work for the other, so I'm foregoing my lunchhour to zoom over there and bust my butt, and the whole time I was berating myself for varying reasons.. for trying to please this other boss who's in a jam...and it takes me 20 minutes to get there and another to come back....really didn't seem all that worth it since I've got to put extra fuel in my car...but I have to please, not let him down...then apologize profusely to my other boss and stay late to make up the time. I'm worn out and then the cycle starts.

When a friend of mine calls and tells me his plans and I assumed I would not see him last night and so I planned ahead my weekend since he would be working and having his youngest son. I was glad as I have so much to do... details don't matter, but I gave up my plans so not to upset him, but there was a miscommunication along the way and so while I skipped my plans and went down to the lake to be with he and his family...I actually started to have a good time...then it abruptly ended because they all wanted to go home and get pizza. I knew they would be having pizza, but I thought they would be having it in my area, not driving back to their house. (that's the miscommunication because I said I was going for a run, then I had lots to do at home to get stuff ready to sell at a yard sale....but he heard me talking to my daughter who thought I was talking about today...so he thought we wouldn't be able to go have pizza) it's all so very stupid, but they left abruptly and I thought what the heck was all that for...I should have just kept to my original plans...and of course, something goes askew in my mind and truly, it all seems distorted. I take everything said wrong...I feel I'm the blame, but sometimes I get mad at him...but what good does that do, it's as though in order for everything to be okay, I must take the blame. Maybe that's another issue ...martyr's complex lol. ugh.

Doesn't matter though, the cycle started and now I'm trying to go head first into it and fight it every step of the way, as far as control anyway. I need to gain control of it in order to break it, you know what I mean.

I'm so glad you had a beautiful friend to make you happy and leave your time of sorrow.

I realize as well that I have triggers that set off programming and that sucks...but I'm tired of treading lightly on mine fields or my friend having to worry what he will step on that will explode. I can't live like this anymore.

Ah, thank you for all the advice. I have tried the shut up before lol. Sometimes it actually does work. I go to my trails and run my butt off and love it. I soar...I feel like everything. I told my friend and this hurt my feelings because he doesn't understand and I doubt he will ever be on the same page with me in this regard...but when I go running, sometimes I feel so damn strong. My body feels excellent. You get into this zone and yet I am aware of the sunlight streaming through the trees and everytime I acknowledge it, even in this 'zone', it's like fuel. I feel such gratitude and oneness and I don't feel oneness with people. Maybe a connection with some, even strangers, that's is interesting, but I feel this connection on a level that I can't even understand, but it's good and it's there and I am in awe of it and grateful of it. All my senses are awake and I hear and smell and see everything, even though I'm so focused on my path. Sounds contradictory, I know.

I got to the stairs and there are a lot of them. years ago, like over 50 someone put in stone/rock steps so people could get up the hills. It's a edit to be sure to run up all these stairs, but wow, what a workout. I'm always drenched and heaving when I've got up the worst of them lol. But anyway, I was talking about an ant I saw, he was doing his thing, carrying food back to the nest...I'm running up the stairs, hot, sweaty, hurting (it's hard running up all those stairs lol) but in that moment, I am connected with the ant and even felt respectful of the ant. I watch to not step on it. I am that way all the time....but sometimes in this place, I have so much more respect for all other living things on this earth... I mention this to my friend in an email and he thinks I'm some lunatic and maybe, we don't have so much in common afterall and he's analysing me. It was hurtful. Makes me feel like a freak, but I decided if anything, maybe he could only wish to be more like me lol, experience the wonders and joys I have and do. Sigh.

I do hug trees. They are my first and true loves. I do love to kick up my heels and dance and be silly. Last week this park near by trails had free music...a band singing oldies and I wanted so much to go, but I felt...I was in a severe self-sabotaging mode...and I felt very alone. I was at the bottom of the trails and I saw all the people going to the park by the lake and I sat for a moment and watched them all but I felt so alone and felt I was not allowed to enjoy the music and really I wish I wasn't alone ...but i just left and ran up the hills into the forest. Last night the winery had a band and I hear it from my house. The groundskeeper who works there asked if I would be going and he said please come and we'd sit and have wine and enjoy the music. He's an elderly man. I actually wanted to go too...just sit and enjoy good wine and music ...but I deprived myself. :-( Once a fool, always a fool, but I hope to change this.

Much love and gratitude to you, Smiler.


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