What is Nothing?

[Sybilline]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:

[psychoslice]

Nothing is everything, but not Realized.

[MRDazzle]

Nothing is nothing until you put a name to it..like everything else that was nothing until it became something. :)

[psychoslice]

Nothing is nothing until you put a name to it..like everything else that was nothing until it became something. :)
He he, me like dat.:smile:

[Gem]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:

It's there but only simultaneous with 'thing'. There are various possibilities which can be seperated intellectually, but together are a 'constant'. It's a space constant and nothing is partial to that, but it's also simultaneous with 'stuff'.

[MRDazzle]

It's there but only simultaneous with 'thing'. There are various possibilities which can be seperated intellectually, but together are a 'constant'. It's a space constant and nothing is partial to that, but it's also simultaneous with 'stuff'.

I think you just broke my brain.

[psychoslice]

It's there but only simultaneous with 'thing'. There are various possibilities which can be seperated intellectually, but together are a 'constant'. It's a space constant and nothing is partial to that, but it's also simultaneous with 'stuff'.
Oh Gem, I get all turned on when you talk like that, mmmmm.:smile:

[MRDazzle]

Oh Gem, I get all turned on when you talk like that, mmmmm.:smile:

That's something and not nothing right there. :D
( picking up my brain now and piecing it back together. )

[trappedinabody]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:

perhaps the wormholes/black holes are nothing
so nothing that it sucks you into something :p

[Sybilline]

I think it's gravity Trapped... Or not, I could be wrong, but you're right! I think it's the closest to nothing we might ever get. Or not..... Aargh....

And Gem, my nose just bled... Hahaha... :))

[MRDazzle]

again, if you put a name on it.. it's something. Even titling it "Nothing" makes it something.

[psychoslice]

Nothing is only nothing to the mind, beyond the mind, well you will have to find out for yourself, but no using the mind lol.

[Henri77]

These cleverbots have your answer. Just ask for a clarification.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnzlbyTZsQY


If the word exists does it not infer nothing also must exist?
Of course this also would apply to unicorns, zombies and dragons.


You must have been quite a challenge to your grammar school teachers.
Asking about quarks & existentialism in finger painting class!

[Chrysaetos]

The mind can never contemplate nothingness or oblivion. Maybe that's why many are convinced that they live on after life because they cannot imagine there is such a thing as nothing.

[MRDazzle]

The mind can never contemplate nothingness or oblivion. Maybe that's why many are convinced that they live on after life because they cannot imagine there is such a thing as nothing.

I agree and to elaborate - For the mind to contemplate a short time of life on to nothingness, seems a bit anti-climatic and purposeless.

[Denial]

I agree and to elaborate - For the mind to contemplate a short time of life on to nothingness, seems a bit anti-climatic and purposeless.

Depends, it can also add great value everything you experience in your "short time of life", to despair over something inevitable would be a waste of time after all.

[merrie]

Nothing: No thought, no feeling, a complete shut-down.

The screen goes blank..............

[Denial]

merrie: if you shut-down a computer it will still be there. If the screen goes blank it will still be there. Even if I would meditate to erase all thoughts and cut my nerves to eliminate feeling I would still exist.

[Arcturus]

"Can one grasp that the zero contains all the numbers? So in nothing all the world exists." j.k.

i don't get it ^ but it sounds relevant and someone might get it or its nonsense heh

[Silver]

O kay, I think I've got it ~ The concept ~

What does a guy say when his SO asks "what're ya thinkin'?"

And there you have it~*

[TeeHee]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:

Nothing is the absence of all knowledge.

[Sybilline]

"Can one grasp that the zero contains all the numbers? So in nothing all the world exists." j.k.

i don't get it ^ but it sounds relevant and someone might get it or its nonsense heh

Maybe it's because in nothingness, something can exist and that is possibility, where everything is birthed from? Hahahaa I don't know :tongue:

[Denial]

Maybe it's because in nothingness, something can exist and that is possibility, where everything is birthed from? Hahahaa I don't know :tongue:

Actually I once saw some program about that. A scientist explained that if you strip a bit of space from everything and leave nothing in it then that state is so unstable that things will be created and vanish very rapidly (on atomic level or smaller, I don't remember everything as it is a while ago). He even theorised that it is possible that the big bang was created in such a way, that a random particle with the correct properties was created that was so heavy that it collapsed on it's own weight etc etc.

[Sybilline]

Hmm!! Sounds familiar Denial! I might have to look it up, I swear I have heard of something similar to that, too.

[PatThagoras]

I just read The Dancing Wu-Li Masters, it wasn't all it was hyped up to be but it was still pretty awesome.
Basically "particles" like photons, electrons, protons etc... are not particles because they act like waves when you put them through certain experiments (the double slit). They are not waves either because they act like particles in other experiments. There was even this experiment where some dude bounced, I believe it was an electron (particle) off a gamma ray (wave) and measured the amount the gamma wave was deflected (only particles can be "deflected") by measuring the change in amplitude (only waves have amplitude)! Basically physicists only call particles Particles to make it easier to describe them.

Those particles/waves are not even consistent. A proton isn't just a proton, it will spontaneously change into a neutron and a positively charged quark (not sure what it's called), and it will have more mass. All particles do this, which I think is where the quantum field theory comes from. It says that matter is some kind of field that interacts with the field of another particle to create new ones. When you smash two particles together you end up getting the same particles again, and more!

The reason I wrote all that is the same as the point of the book: to change the way you think about particles. They are not just little building blocks, they are a weird, constantly changing field.

You've probably heard that nothingness isn't empty.. That's because "nothing" is the same way. You can have a complete vacuum one moment, then that nothing will turn into some particles, and then it will turn back into nothing.

[Sentientno1]

"Nothing" in terms of mysticism is that which no name can be applied to nor any question be asked of because neither fits....hence the 'nothing' it is also said it cannot be experienced because that which is thought of as an experiencer is it.
Wrestling with language, it could be said, when the experiencer is in abeyance "nothing" is uncovered.

There may be some confusion trying to equate space with "Nothing", as Nothing is often seen as the womb of phenomena, phenomena having no existance apart from Nothing, as such space does not exist. Where there is no solid object there is no space, where there is no space something cannot be said to 'exist'

The best word i had to invent by reason of desperation to express, is spacelessness.

[relinquish]

This is my take on 'nothingness'.

The most fundamental aspect of any'thing' is the totality of everything 'else' that is not that thing.

In anything, we can see everything.

In truth, there are no 'particular things'.

There is only 'What IS'.

'What IS' does not require anything 'else' in order for 'it' to exist, and so exists causelessly, without another, forever and ever.

Therefore, 'What IS' can not be 'something'.

'What IS' is actually 'nothing', and so remains eternaly 'un-manifested'.

This causeless, infinite 'ISness' is the most real possible reality.

'IT' simply 'IS'.

Forever necessarily from this infinite, eternal reality apparently arises it's absolute opposite.

This apparent manifestation is itself an illusory effect that doesn't actually exist separately from the eternal nothingness of 'What IS', and so takes presicely the form of what ISN'T.

What ISN'T is 'duality'.

I.E., Movement/stillness, change/changelessness, absolute chaos/absolute order, form/emptiness, sound/silence, structure/foundation, observed/observer.

From this illusory arising of duality emanates the apparent 'manyness' known as 'everything'.

Therefore, everything is actually nothing, appearing as many things.

Peace :)

[St.Stephen]

Nothings isnt and something is. The only thing that nothing is a blank slate for creation and life, thats really all you can say about it. Look into space at night and realize that the blackness was there before the big bang. You can say it goes on forever but that would be implying theres something. Its space... When buddhist say nothing or emptiness its just not grabbing onto thoughts or emotions. Empty of thoughts full of love.

[Miss Hepburn]

Nothing or The Nothing or Nothingness is used by many Eastern teachers
And refered to in many stories.
It is The Void.
Or the Night of Brahman or Brahma.
It must be experienced to know.
It is before creation and yet exists at the same time...tho the creation is created...
The Void is on the flipside still.

When there, wowsa, It is Absolute Pure Nothingness...except One
Awareness or Consciousness....One...No other at all...anywhere...like a vacuum...
I wasn't scared...but startled enough in awe...I got outta there fast.

It has also been described as before creation...the Dream of Brahma...oh, I remember a story of someone that slipped out of the mouth of Brahma into that Void...I suppose that described my experience...I would handle it better this time...because I'd be ok realizing I was That One Pure Consciousness, now.
I'm a grown up now. :smile:

[slaga]

Nothing is my savings account!

[Search]

Yet emptying our heads, gives as more insight than the clinging to, of said knowledge so many of us pride ourselves in. I've gained more in having nothing, than the acquisition of something. :wink:

[WonderGarth]

Nothing dreaming of something :)

[Emilyanne-x]

I have had this thought before!

If you imagine 'nothing' in the mind, you still see something in your minds eye, e.g a clear white space, or complete darkness.

But the interesting thing is, that white space or darkness is still something. It's almost impossible to imagine 'nothing' because you always still think of something.

... So is 'nothing' still something? Does nothingness even exist? Then again nothingness won't even have existence if it is truly nothing. Existence cannot be a predicate of nothingness if it is truly NOTHING. Nothingness cannot exist if it is nothing, so nothingness must not exist. There must always be something.

Frustratingly, we cannot draw any conclusions about nothingness because logically, no true empirical evidence could be found about nothingness.

I kind of think that there is no such thing as nothing, there is always something, if we try to think of nothing we still think of something.

[Serenity69]

A Guru suddenly said to a disciple 'What Is Mind?'

The disciple could not think of anything, having been shocked by the question...

The Guru replied 'Yes, that's mind'

[Glass Onion]

Nothing, by nature, does not "exist."

How can it?

[Niebla0007]

What is Nothing?

My answer to that is one word, which has been in the answer of Miss Hepburn -
the VOID.
By religions and faith, it is found in Kabbalah, and yes, there is the issue and possibility of one getting lost or stuck in it.

Geometrically, these initial stages of creation are represented by nothing (En Sof), the empty/black point (Shekinah), the full/white point (Kether), the line (Chokmah), and the triangle (Binah). Thus Binah is also the foundation of the entire Supernal Triad, whereas Kether is its root/source, and Chokmah its life force, and En Sof is the unseen/unknowable essence that flows through all of it. The triangle is the first form created and thus it is the primary key to the powers of heaven (the square and circle being the other two keys).
The universe is contained in the spectrum between the vastness of Ein Sof and the smallness of AYIN. The ultimate smallness is often called nothingness with references to”the missing” or “the hidden” Different traditions have different names for this smallness or nothingness. The Chinese call it the Void, Gurdjieff calls it the Absolute Nothing, Kabbalah calls it Ayin.

Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzimtzum

[the_crow]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:

Nothing - aka The Void - is a state realized in the absence of thought.
Realizing it, it becomes everything.

[William]

again, if you put a name on it.. it's something. Even titling it "Nothing" makes it something.

Nothing is No Thing.

Consciousness determines what no thing is and without consciousness, even if everything else existed, there would be no thing in which to say so.

If consciousness was just existing in no thing, it would understand this and accept 2 things.

1: That it (consciousness) was something.

2: That there was no thing else.

[Stevo]

No objects, no time, no space.
The opposite of all things.
Only NOW exists in the concept of nothingness.

[r6r6]

If we live in a finite Universe of occupied space i.e. fermions, bosons, gravity and any combination thereof, then the only possibility, is that there exists macro-micro infinite non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe.

This is a rationally logical and common sense conclusion, yet over last 8 years, very few I've spoken to, appear to be able to grasp this concept / scenario.

Non-occupied space;
..1) truely non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe.

...2) superficially appearing, non-occupied space, ex the space between two cars, two homes, two people two planets superficially appears empty but is filled with air molecules, EM-Radiation, neutrinos, more sub-atomic particles.:blob3:

r6

[silent whisper]

If we live in a finite Universe of occupied space i.e. fermions, bosons, gravity and any combination thereof, then the only possibility, is that there exists macro-micro infinite non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe.

This is a rationally logical and common sense conclusion, yet over last 8 years, very few I've spoken to, appear to be able to grasp this concept / scenario.

Non-occupied space;
..1) truely non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe.

...2) superficially appearing, non-occupied space, ex the space between two cars, two homes, two people two planets superficially appears empty but is filled with air molecules, EM-Radiation, neutrinos, more sub-atomic particles.:blob3:

r6

That's really interesting, my curious ears pricked up when I read this, considering today I said to someone love is probably just a space.

[Sepher]

Related to your question about can there be nothing. I feel yes. Many people only know of the physical dimension and the astral heaven with its many levels but there are many heavens or spiritual planes. The lower spiritual planes have the opposite of nothing: matter, energy, time and space. But the higher levels of heaven are composed of pure spirit which has no matter.

[r6r6]

That's really interesting, my curious ears pricked up when I read this, considering today I said to someone love is probably just a space.

-Good to hear. Of course the key word is "IF". People throw around the word infinite so often in regards to a occupied space Universe.

I don' think they realize the implications of what their saying. Macro or micro infinite is not a associated with a size.

Infinity is beyond size--- size infers a finite limit and similarly eternity is beyond a finite / limited time.

Time is only eternal in that energy / physical cannot never be created nor destroyed so our finite occupied space Universe exists eternally.

The finite total value of our finite Universe is also eternal, even tho the number of parts that compose our finite Universe, may increase and decrease, the total energetic / physical value is an eternal existent value.

I believe this has to do with integrity. Integrity of our finite occupied space Universe, that is eternally embraced by the macro-micro infinite, non-occupied space, that is eternally existent beyond our finite Universe of occupied space.

The non-occuioed embraces but does not contain or restrain our finite Universe of occupied space.

Whereas, gravity--- also occupies space --- embraces and contains and some restraints on our finite Universe of occupied space

This leads into understanding, that, mass-attraction( gravity ) is a pulling-IN force or phenomena, that results in pushing-out phenomena ex. the womb muscles contract and as a result the fetus is pushed out.

There is only one kind of signal sent from brain to muscles and when it is on /activated, it tells muscles to contract. When it stops signaling, the muscles inherently return to the relaxed state / position.

Gravity( mass-attraction ) = cosmic integral essence.

My scenario to those who believe gravity is resultant of pushing-in forces / phenomena, is this, IF we live in a finite Universe of occupied space, then there is no thing(s) outside to be pushing-in, to keep Universe's from becoming eternally dispersed ergo a non-integral entity.

Mass-attractive( contractive-IN ) gravity is the ultra-micro ergo ultra weak force, that cummulatively is the most powerful and essential force that maintains the integrity of Universe. imho

Pulling-IN is the path of least resistance ex. over the years Ive seen various strong men pulling a boxcar of a train with there arms or even there teeth towards thereself.

Never have I seen a strong man pushing a train away from themselves.

Japaneses manual hand saws are lightweight and designed to cut on the pull stroke, not the push stroke of the convential hand saw most are famililar with.

The dude who helped Steve Jobs invent the mouse, also invented signs public bathrooms that say occupied when someone latches door from inside.

We can not get outsider of our finite Universe of occupied space. However, oour finite Universe of occupied space, may expand and occupy some of the macro-micro infinite non-occupied space.

The question then becomes, how can Universe expand or contract without violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics--- energy / physical cannot be created nor destroyed ---.

That enters into a little bit more complicated set of scenarios. imho.

r6

[Visitor]

The human mind cannot make sense of 'nothing'.
Not perceivable by mind (fact or theory).
Anything unreal does not exist.
Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?No.

[r6r6]

The human mind cannot make sense of 'nothing'.
Not perceivable by mind (fact or theory).Anything unreal does not exist.
No.


Absolute nothingness--- aka non-occupied space ---makes rationally logical and common sense, in relationship to a finite occupied space. The two are complementaries.

( = complementary of convex and concave.

Existence of only non-occupied space does not makes sense, because to think of it inherentle means there exists the relativity of a somethingness( occupied space ) that does the thinking.

What is truly beyond grasp-ability is eternity of the occupied space, and the infinity of non-occupied space.

It takes a lot of mind emphasis to get our heads around the currently known size of Universe, much less ideas of non-graspable infinite.

Comprehending an infinite spatial Universe becomes a laughble joke at that point. imho

The Universe is said to be expanding, if so, what do you think it is expanding into, i.e. what to you think is outside our finite Universe.

This is fairly simple logical conclusions to follow. imho.

Read those big bang theories and they all lead to same conclusion, that, what is beyond our finite Universe is non-occupied space. Simple, rational conclusion, not complex. imho

r6

[Visitor]

Hello r6r6r

Absolute nothingness--- aka non-occupied space ---makes rationally logical and common sense, in relationship to a finite occupied space. The two are complementaries.....
Read those big bang theories and they all lead to same conclusion, that, what is beyond our finite Universe is non-occupied space. Simple, rational conclusion, not complex. imho ... r6
Interesting post about space.

To clarify my position,
Originally Posted by Visitor
The human mind cannot make sense of 'nothing'.
Not perceivable by mind (fact or theory). Anything unreal does not exist ...
I was not referring to space.

Non-occupied space may seem to our human senses as nothing. The word space, to the human mind, refers to dimensions and time. And because of this, non-occupied space becomes empty space - not even a photon.

The problem is that our language cannot explain adequately outside our four dimensions of 3D space and time. Only the language of mathematics can ponder beyond that, and in that pondering we discover other dimensions.

From this, they realized that certain dimensions can only exist (to our mind) when they are combined to each other. A simple example is space (length, width, breadth) cannot exist without the dimension of time - for it takes time to go from one point to another.

The word eternity, so often thought as being endless space ---there is that word again, space.... is also misunderstood as endless time.

Now consider eternity as timeless.

To the mind, 'now' does not exist. How could it, since even an impulse to bridge a synapse, takes time. (incidentally, the human nervous system cannot respond to impulses above 2-3 kHz, but only to harmonics thereof).

Spiritual matters, often arises from those indescribable dimensions. These forums hold a vast amount of language that points to the indescribable.

The human mind is limited to making sense of real 'nothing', where space and time (facts), and all other dimensions or thought (theory), do not exist.

Hope this has explained my position a bit better. I am sorry if my previous post had mislead you r6r6r. Lol.

[each1teach1]

Nothing is just a word, there is no such concept that exists. Even complete darkness is something.....it's darkness.

it's just a word used to describe what appears to have no substance or activity, but in reality there is always something

[FallingLeaves]

Nothing is just a word, there is no such concept that exists. Even complete darkness is something.....it's darkness.

it's just a word used to describe what appears to have no substance or activity, but in reality there is always something

why? and how do you know?

[each1teach1]

why? and how do you know?

Because nothingess is subjective to your perception. It's not material, it exists only as an idea in our imagination...and everyone's idea is different. It's only manifestation is the word "nothing"

What I meant in the first post was that no such concept exists in material form. I know this because it would make no sense in that form.
Empty space is not nothing because it's empty space. It's just a word used to describe.

[Djurplagare89]

Interesting. "Nothing" is something that cannot be seen, touched or sensed. But that doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Oxygen cant be sensed but still its very clear existence. Black isnt "nothing" either, black is a color!

[r6r6]

Interesting. "Nothing" is something that cannot be seen, touched or sensed. But that doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Oxygen cant be sensed but still its very clear existence. Black isnt "nothing" either, black is a color!

Hi Dj, great to see some common sense in your words.

Non-occupied space embraces but does not contain/restrict our finite occupied space Universe. imho

1) Metaphysical-1 / mind/intellect ergo any concepts thereof.
------------------------------------------------
2) Non-occupied Space-- macro-micro infinite ---
...Metaphysical-2.......

Occupied space / physical / energy / quasi-physical nand finite:
...Spirit-2....

1) fermionic matter---charged/dipolar/bi-polar
..Spirit-2....

2) bosonic forces--- dipolar/bi-polar and other than gravity --and
...Spirit-2......,

3) gravity---mono-polar? and quasi-physical ----
...Metaphysical-3 and Spirit-3....

---------"U"niverse = "G"od{ ess }---------
...^..above inclusive of non-occupied space..^
..v..below is exclusive of non-occupied space...v...
Universe = God{ ess }
The Great Mama
The Great Spirit
The Great Illusion
The Cosmos...etc....imho

r6

[Djurplagare89]

Hi Dj, great to see some common sense in your words.

Non-occupied space embraces but does not contain/restrict our finite occupied space Universe. imho

1) Metaphysical-1 / mind/intellect ergo any concepts thereof.
------------------------------------------------
2) Non-occupied Space-- macro-micro infinite ---
...Metaphysical-2.......

Occupied space / physical / energy / quasi-physical nand finite:
...Spirit-2....

1) fermionic matter---charged/dipolar/bi-polar
..Spirit-2....

2) bosonic forces--- dipolar/bi-polar and other than gravity --and
...Spirit-2......,

3) gravity---mono-polar? and quasi-physical ----
...Metaphysical-3 and Spirit-3....

---------"U"niverse = "G"od{ ess }---------
...^..above inclusive of non-occupied space..^
..v..below is exclusive of non-occupied space...v...
Universe = God{ ess }
The Great Mama
The Great Spirit
The Great Illusion
The Cosmos...etc....imho

r6
Now you seem sure..eh... "Nothing" is only a word made of humans.

[r6r6]

Dj89--} Now you seem sure..eh... "Nothing" is only a word made of humans.

Huh? All words are human "made", so I'm not sure what your point is exactly?.

Study the cosmic heirarchy below, if you find something in error or that you think may be invalid please share, with some rationally logical reason as to why you believe that specific concept is invalid ex. you appear to have some concern about the word "nothing"--- like all words ---being a creation of humans. Thx r6

I've corrected some of enumeration below.
Hi Dj, great to see some common sense in your words.

Non-occupied space embraces but does not contain/restrict our finite occupied space Universe. imho

1) Metaphysical-1 / mind/intellect ergo any concepts thereof.
------------------------------------------------
2) Non-occupied Space-- macro-micro infinite ---
...Metaphysical-2.......

3) Occupied space / physical / energy / quasi-physical and finite:
...Spirit-2....

..3a) fermionic matter---charged/dipolar/bi-polar
..Spirit-2....

..3b) bosonic forces--- dipolar/bi-polar and other than gravity --and
...Spirit-2......,

..3c) gravity---mono-polar? and quasi-physical ----
...Metaphysical-3 and Spirit-3....

---------"U"niverse = "G"od{ ess }---------
...^..above inclusive of non-occupied space..^
..v..below is exclusive of non-occupied space...v...
Universe = God{ ess }
The Great Mama
The Great Spirit
The Great Illusion
The Cosmos...etc....imho

r6

[each1teach1]

Because nothingess is subjective to your perception. It's not material, it exists only as an idea in our imagination...and everyone's idea is different. It's only manifestation is the word "nothing"

What I meant in the first post was that no such concept exists in material form. I know this because it would make no sense in that form.
Empty space is not nothing because it's empty space. It's just a word used to describe.

Let me clarify my stance here ^ because the word nothing and the philosophical concept of nothingness are two different things, I interpreted them as the same thing but now that I think of it the grammatical 'nothing' is different than the concept of nothingness.

'Nothing' in grammar is an indefinite pronoun meaning it's a substitute word that takes the place of a noun, such as "there is nothing in the drawer" actually means "there is only empty space in the drawer"
In grammar, nothing is just a substitute word.

Then there is the Nothingness concept/theory of non-being or non-existence. I don't think this makes sense in reality because I see eye to eye with Parmenides when he said there is two ways of inquiry: That it is, and that it is not. The latter doesn't make sense because nothing cannot be.
In one's consciousness, nothingness is absence of thought and feeling. One cannot realize absence of thought without thinking. Consciousness without thinking is nothing... then, how would one experience nothing with consciousness? Pure feeling? then you would have to feel something
That's how I see it.

[r6r6]

There exists cosmic non-occupied and occupied space is relatively simple concept to grasp, once we able to grasp teh concept of our finite occupied space Universe.

This proves to be the most difficult for most humans to grasp. Go figure.


In our everdydays lives we have simple analogies but the one I like best is the man who help Steve Jobs invent the mouse.

He also had the idea of for sighns on some public bathroom doors--- ex trains, plane busess ---of a sign that says occupied when you latch the door from inside, and it says unoccupied when no one is inside.

In our every day examples we see empty space, but we know that space is filled with air molecules, photons, and other various fermionic cosmic particles we cannot see with our naked eye.

r6

[LadyMay]

Nothing doesn't exist :wink:

[Arcturus]

http://youtu.be/YGJNqp7px3U?t=1h4m45s speaks of nothing allowing tremendous energy/compassion

[Lynn]

Hello

What is nothing we are nothing.....maybe we do not even exist. I do not believe that but who knows.

This reminds me of a time I was doing Platform Medium Readings and this man came to me, for a woman in the audience. I could see him as clear as I could see everyone living and he could too see me clearly. He stood there with me staring at me, and finally said "I do not believe in you, when you die you pass into nothingness and that is that. You do the work of the Devil." that is the message I had to pass on to this woman. She broke down in tears and said that is my "Dad" finally a Medium that really found him.

It was a few days later that same man re joined me, and we chatted a bit about this "Nothing" that is there. He still felt there was nothing in death but too that he could see and talk to me. To him he was physically dead so there was "nothing to live for".

Its an interesting concept nothing.

Lynn

[Dwerg]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:

Nothing is by definition lack of anything. The word "nothing" can be used in a whole range of contexts with various meanings as well. Nothing as in the void which can be mentally experienced. Nothing as in lack of solids or liquids inside a defined space "there's nothing in this warehouse". Nothing as in lack of air, and nothing as in the hypothetical case where there is absolutely nothing (not even energy). It can also be used in common communication "what are you thinking about?" "nothing".

You can split it up into "no" and "thing". So it's a lack of things, and "thing" could be anything which doesn't necessarily mean everything. So nothing doesn't necessarily imply lack of everything.

We could mess around with the definitions of nothing, but it has several meanings anyways. It's useful for communication purposes, or screwing people over if you want to be a guru that confuses people who don't understand that some words have more than one meaning.

[r6r6]

True nothingness = non-occupied space.

Non-occupied space embraces our finite occupied space Universe.

Gravitational Pi-'space' = prime 31 imho

Euclidean [ time ] or Pi-'time' = 24 imho

Macro-infinite non-occupied space, embraces finite occupied space{ Universe } imho

This part is relatively simple to grasp. imho

When asked what metaphysical-1 mind/intellect concepts are happening via your conscious awareness, we may say nothing, and what that really means, is nothing in paticular and not truly nothing happening with consciousness and its access to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect. imho

r6

[Morpheus]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:
For a while they thought a Vacuum contained nothing, but then they found out otherwise.

In fact, there is no such thing as nothing. Regarding the environment in which the Big Bang is said to have taken place, Physicists have a problem with "nothing". Referring to "Hyperspacial Space", or, Higher Dimensional space.

"Hyperspace".

Professor of Physics Michio Kaku also tells us that our universe is but one bubble among many in what is referred to as "Hyperspacial Foam" (Like the bubbles in the foam on a head of beer.) Hyperspace is the state apart from time.

Also... Michio Kaku tells us that the atoms within our bodies were forged on the anvil of nucleosynthesis, in an exploding star, aeons before the birth of our solar system.

So, yes... you yourself are made of, "Starlight". Founded therein. "Stardust", also you see, is fundamentally, "Frequency, Vibration, and Resonance". Or... "Light".

“Beneath all matter we must assume the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the Matrix of all matter.”—Max Planck, “father” of quantum theory, 1917

Stars also, symbolize both people, and angels alike in the scriptures. What does that tell you?
(Genesis 37:9, Daniel 12:3, Mathew 22:30-31, Luke20:35-37, Revelation 1:16, and vs. 20, and Chapter 2:7, and Revelation 12:1... and more.)

[Dwerg]

What is seen in this picture?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Nothing_whitespace_blank.png

[r6r6]

What is seen in this picture?


White light emanating/radiating from pixels, ergo, atoms, ergo, electrons.

True non-occupied space exists outside of our finite, occupied space Universe. imho

However, to be clear, if we had a Universe as a torus or composed of many tori, we may/possibly have situations, where there is non-occupied space between tubes opposite each other of the same torus or many tori if that is the case.

In both of these scenarios, occupied space Universe is the tube and what is in the tube, not non-occupied space between the tubes. imho

Non-occupied space is metaphysical-2.

Mind/intellect ergo concepts are metaphysical-1. imho

[Gem]

What is seen in this picture?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Nothing_whitespace_blank.png

It looks white bases on the limited range of visible light frequency. My superpowers make it look different because my visible range extends from x ray to gamma death ray. Wait, is this about me and my superpowers?

[The Back Seat]

Empty space exists at the quantum level. It's a fabric of energy. Displacing the fabric creates a physical being and it's gravitational pull. In astronomy, we can see a planet (displacement in the fabric) and it has a gravitational pull caused by the displaced fabric of space time. You exist as part of the earth that displaces the fabric. You displace fabric but your gravity is much weaker the earth so earth wins with it pull. Something does exist in a vacuum or empty space, but we cannot precieve it physically and that's where spirituality comes into play

[MIND POWER]

How can parts of space have nothing..? you can't detect nothing, you can't see into or through nothing because it is nothing!

What would nothing look like..?

Nothing, i don't think people can comprehend nothing.

What's on the other side of a black hole who knows! i doubt it is nothing though, because its just sucking stuff through.

Probably another dimension or Universe.

How on earth can wormholes/black holes be nothing.? if they where nothing we would not even be talking about them...

If there is such thing as "Nothing" it would be very hard to detect.

[Revya]

Nothing is a concept that can only be understood as the very word that defines it.

[KevinO]

A way to look at it:

This universe is perceived as transparent blackness. Just as all colors are black when combined, all potential existence here is black, but as a penetrable darkness.

Once inside that darkness creation begins as co-existence with God. One sees dimension, light, color, gravity exists as we pull particles together and into orbit by observation, complexity reigns as the number of observed particles skyrockets.

Who one is becomes identified with the particles, a time stream comes into existence, and life forms and other solid appearing particles become part of the play.

At some point one experiences unpleasant wavelength and wants freedom, which requires understanding, and the search back begins.

[r6r6]

1) Metaphysical-1 mind/intellect ergo concepts of space, not actual space.
-----------------------------------------------------------
2) non-occupied space---lack of bosonic EMRadiation ergo lack of visible light and fermionic matter.

3) occupied space{ spirit-2 and 3 }---Universe of fermions and bosons spin-2 and gravity spin-3/sprit-3.
1, 2, 3..ABC, thats how easy Universe can be...sung to M. Jackson and Jackson 5 song.

r6

[Gem]

A way to look at it:

This universe is perceived as transparent blackness. Just as all colors are black when combined, all potential existence here is black, but as a penetrable darkness.

Though, a beam of white light refracts into all colours

Once inside that darkness creation begins as co-existence with God. One sees dimension, light, color, gravity exists as we pull particles together and into orbit by observation, complexity reigns as the number of observed particles skyrockets.

Who one is becomes identified with the particles, a time stream comes into existence, and life forms and other solid appearing particles become part of the play.

At some point one experiences unpleasant wavelength and wants freedom, which requires understanding, and the search back begins.

[silent whisper]

A way to look at it:

This universe is perceived as transparent blackness. Just as all colors are black when combined, all potential existence here is black, but as a penetrable darkness.

So you get to finger paint and create what you want, if you penetrate your own *black hole* ......:wink:

Once inside that darkness creation begins as co-existence with God. One sees dimension, light, color, gravity exists as we pull particles together and into orbit by observation, complexity reigns as the number of observed particles skyrockets.

If you slow down the observation of your finger painting and become fully present with ones touch upon the whole experience, it almost appears in this way you describe if you can experience it this way of course..:)

Who one is becomes identified with the particles, a time stream comes into existence, and life forms and other solid appearing particles become part of the play.

So become it all yourself and create to your hearts content?

At some point one experiences unpleasant wavelength and wants freedom, which requires understanding, and the search back begins.

Maybe this is when you finger paint and you are not happy with your creation, so you find another clean piece of paper, only to discover when you touch it again with the movement of your creative touch creates waves of colours and patterns that just don't feel right or look right to you..so you keep on painting, until that masterpiece feels just right... In time hopefully you haven't wasted too much paper. Environmental awareness is always a wonderful way to stay grounded into the nature of our world and its needs that need our continued support...:cool:

[Arcturus]

A cup is not a cup w/o the space it encompasses. There is no cup w/o the space/"nothing" inside (comparitively speaking-oxygen aside). Therefore nothing allows something. There are no planets w/o the space between them. The universe exists because of the meditative state of universal awareness, which is devoid of thought, empty.

Meditation was pure delight, without a flutter of thought, with its endless subtleties; it was a movement that had no end and every movement of the brain was still, watching from emptiness. It was an emptiness that had known no knowing; it was emptiness that had known no space; it was empty of time. It was empty, past all seeing, knowing and being. In this emptiness there was fury; the fury of a storm, the fury of exploding universe, the fury of creation which could never have any expression. It was the fury of all life, death and love. But yet it was empty, a vast, boundless emptiness which nothing could ever fill, transform or cover up. Meditation was the ecstasy of this emptiness.

[SaraTherase]

Hmm..nothing is everything and everything is everything therefor everything is nothing and everything all the same..that sounds real confusing, no wonder I didn't enjoy taking philosophy

[jimrich]

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

Empty space is not empty, it has air and molecules and stuff. Space is not empty, there are wormholes, asteroids, etc. Dark matter is not nothing, it's a huge mass of energy. Parts of space that have "nothing", no atoms, small particles, still have gravity, and radiowaves, and photons running through them.

Another random thought...

:confused:
The first thing my original guru taught me was the significance of Semantics so, in my current opinion, the word "nothing" could also mean: the Void, everything, Consciousness, Infinite Energy, Awareness, Pure Awareness, Being, Mind, 'I', This, That, the DOA, It, Infinity, Divine, Divinity, Supreme, Absolute, You, Me, the All, Life, Experience, Wholeness, Oneness, Unity, God, Self, Cosmic Mind, Reality, One, Silence, Stillness, Presence, Not Two and a huge array of other words and phrases in a vain attempt to label or describe the Infinite - which is apparently beyond the limited mind's ability to name or even comprehend.
So call it what you will or call it nothing but it's your own inner and direct knowing/realization of who/what you REALLY are. You are that! There is nothing here but YOU - so enjoy it! :hug:

[r6r6]

Lets begin by making some rather simple common sense assumptions.

Thing = occupied space, ex auto, hand, house and many that we may only detect indirectly with instrument instead of directly with human senses ex air molecules, atoms etc......

No thing = non-occupied space, and here I mean the true non-occupied space that exists outside of our finite, occupied space Universe.

There exists a trinity at the top of my cosmic hierarchy.

1) metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept i.e. concepts of Space, God, Universe, Concepts etc......aka spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent,

----------------------line-of-demarcation---------------------------------

2) macro-infinite, non-occupied space, that, exists beyond--- outside of ---our finite occupied space Universe,

3) finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse i.e. fermions, bosons aka spirit-2 and

....3a) gravity aka spirit-3

.....3b) dark energy aka spirit-4, and any collection thereof ex most complex biological woman and less complex man.

r6

[Within Silence]

Originally there is nothing. If you make something, you have something. If you don’t make anything, then already, you are complete.

[jimrich]

Nothing? ~ Everything? ~ Something? ~ Who cares???
i just want to be happy and, thanks to a few happy teachings and teachers, i am happy - NOW!