Lennox - A dog sentenced to death because of the way he looks

[beloved_ofmars]

Lennox the Labrador Mix, has spent the last two years on death row. It's a secret location in Belfast, his family haven't been allowed to see him. He's lost a lot of his fur, probably due to stress. While the Belfast City Council wait with their blue syringe, his family fight the court's decision that Lennox should be put to death. His crime, looking like a 'Pit Bull Type'. He hasn't bitten anyone or even acted aggressively towards anyone. Breed Specific Legislation has put to death thousands of innocent family pets simply because they don't look right.
Last year a five-month-old puppy was killed by 'authorities' because they thought that he too looked like a 'Pit Bull Type'. The puppy whose name was Fudge, was killed the same day he was taken, without giving his human family a chance to appeal.
Lennox is not actually a Pit Bull, but even if he was, Pit Bulls are great pets. They're one of the friendliest breeds of dog. Most of Michael Vicks Pit Bulls are now working as Therapy Dogs. It seems that Great Britain has the breed all wrong. The panic and hysteria of the early 90s resulted in this nightmare today.
http://www.savelennox.co.uk/

[LPC]

I won't comment on the legislation about pit bulls, but why can't the family get a vet to do a definitive breed identification? Cross-breeds are not forbidden, as far as I know. Or even as a last result (although expensive), they could get a DNA test done and then a court order for the dog's release.

[Rin]

People should not be allowed to have Pit bulls. IMO a blanket ban is appropriate because only a few people can provide what this breed needs.

As far as Lennox goes, if the owners would love this dog they would have asked a vet to euthanase him long ago. How can someone put this dog through so much stress that he even loses his fur, and then claim they love him? What for? To prove that they are right? Incomprehensible.

[Sybilline]

I will agree that pitbulls are a power-type breed, and because of their jaw strength (result of cross-breeding), their bite is more powerful than a smaller dog's bite. But any dog will be aggressive if he thinks he can get away with it, or if it's scared.

[LPC]

I think the OP was trying to draw attention to the fact that dogs which are NOT pit bulls have been wrongly seized. The OP clearly states that the dog is a Labrador cross (presumably Labrador crossed with pit bull). That is the issue which he wanted us to discuss. Hopefully, the OP will return to clarify!

[knightofalbion]

Any dog needs to be properly trained and controlled and kept in an appropiate environment, esp. if it's a large, powerful breed, but ultimately if a dog is 'aggressive' you have to look at the owners.
Most aggressive dogs have been trained/incited to be aggressive.

[Rin]

I get this, but people who will encounter this particular dog will react to what they see. If it looks like a pit bull it is probably a pit pull or has some substantial pit bull genes. That is fine for us adults who can make a big detour around it, but what is a child on a narrow footpath coming face to face with such a dog going to do?

There are enough stories around of such dogs going 'bad' without any warning signals. The same goes for Rottweilers.

It is unfortunate that Lennox is in this situation but I do not understand the owners who allow this dog to live in what must be a horrible situation to go on for 2 years.
IMO this is animal abuse in the highest degree. It is no good to say the authorities do this to him, as a dog owner I have the responsibility to keep him in humane conditions, and if that is not possible, to let him go.

[Sybilline]

I think the OP was trying to draw attention to the fact that dogs which are NOT pit bulls have been wrongly seized. The OP clearly states that the dog is a Labrador cross (presumably Labrador crossed with pit bull). That is the issue which he wanted us to discuss. Hopefully, the OP will return to clarify!

That was pretty clear. But you know threads rarely ever stay with the OP yeah?

[Rin]

That was pretty clear. But you know threads rarely ever stay with the OP yeah?
It looks that everybody is sitting on the fence. Where are the people who are concerned about animal welfare?

The authorities may be wrong on this one. So is the owner. The difference is that the authorities are constrained by all kind of laws and regulations. They cannot just confiscate and destroy people's 'possession' without following due process. This may take months, years and may involve the courts. The owner, on the other hand, can put an end to this animal's suffering today without going through any red tape. A simple word would be enough.

[Sybilline]

I'm sure that's what it looks like to you Rin, though we see ourselves as totally taking a different stand. I love pitbulls and I don't think any animal should be abused. I'm pretty sure nobody in this forum would say otherwise. ;)

[Rin]

When a couple gets divorced they sometime use their children as pawns. It is a most disgraceful tactic.

How is using this dog in order to fight a court decision, and hope that legislation is changed or ignored, different to that?

[NekoTheCat]

People should not be allowed to have Pit bulls.
wow, is this the middle ages when a person owning a cat was considered a witch? i think that one should have a license if they want to own a *dangerous* breed of dog, or a dog which is a mix of such breed.

pitbulls may be difficult to own, indeed. but dogs can be trained to behave, to be aggressive or not to be aggressive. there are special equipment which can be used in order to minimize the chances for the dog to bite, as far as i know. dogs shouldnt walk around the street without a leash, even i it's nice to see them proudly walking in front of their owner..
fixing the dog may actually be good for both the dog and his owner, in more than one way.

and if the *authorities*take your dog away from one reason or another, you cant just walk in and take it back. but they should decide really fast what they want to do with it, and not wait 2 years for whatever they were waiting for. the family could have gotten a new dog by now, and carried on with their lifes..

[Sybilline]

It's like in my country, Huskies are so popular and don't get me wrong they're lovely but dammit this country is tropical. It barely gets any colder than 24*C. Poor dogs! :((((

[Rin]

wow, is this the middle ages when a person owning a cat was considered a witch? i think that one should have a license if they want to own a *dangerous* breed of dog, or a dog which is a mix of such breed.

pitbulls may be difficult to own, indeed. but dogs can be trained to behave, to be aggressive or not to be aggressive. there are special equipment which can be used in order to minimize the chances for the dog to bite, as far as i know. dogs shouldnt walk around the street without a leash, even i it's nice to see them proudly walking in front of their owner..
fixing the dog may actually be good for both the dog and his owner, in more than one way.

and if the *authorities*take your dog away from one reason or another, you cant just walk in and take it back. but they should decide really fast what they want to do with it, and not wait 2 years for whatever they were waiting for. the family could have gotten a new dog by now, and carried on with their lifes..
Yes, can, and you know that many people would want a dangerous dog for the only reason that they would then belong to an elite group. For such people training the dog would just be an inconvenience not to be bothered with.

There are so many dog breeds, why does it have to be a dangerous breed?

[Chrysaetos]

Some people even let their pitbulls run freely in the street. I just found it out today when I was walking with my dog. He came by and started attacking and if it wasn't for another man coming by and our shouting the pitbull could've killed my dog. Luckily he has no wounds.

Disgusting creature..

Time to carry a knife (or perhaps something more serious) when you're letting your dog out.. How sad it that?:rolleyes:

The owner is to be blamed, but it's always the same breeds who are aggressive and they should no longer be bred. I encounter so many breeds while walking and there are plenty who only lick and play. But others are just aggressive and should be dealt with accordingly.

[beloved_ofmars]

I won't comment on the legislation about pit bulls, but why can't the family get a vet to do a definitive breed identification? Cross-breeds are not forbidden, as far as I know. Or even as a last result (although expensive), they could get a DNA test done and then a court order for the dog's release.

Unfortunately, the law in the UK seems to be on the look of the dog rather than the breed. Lennox was seized and killed because of how he looked, a DNA test sadly would have made no difference. :icon_cry:



People should not be allowed to have Pit bulls. IMO a blanket ban is appropriate because only a few people can provide what this breed needs.

As far as Lennox goes, if the owners would love this dog they would have asked a vet to euthanase him long ago. How can someone put this dog through so much stress that he even loses his fur, and then claim they love him? What for? To prove that they are right? Incomprehensible.

No, they tried to save him because they loved him. As for people not being allowed to keep Pit Bulls, some people should not be allowed to keep dogs full stop. Michael Vick for a start, should never have been allowed to have those dogs. Many of the Vick dogs are now working as therapy dogs.
As for poor Lennox, he was killed by the Belfast City Council last month. Victoria Stilwell asked if she could take him, at no costs to the council, and take him to the US. They refused. I think that if Lennox had continued to exist, and gone on to get his Canine good citizenship award, it would have been highly embarrassing to them. The whole reason Lennox was killed was because they wanted to save face.
Rest in peace dear little dog, the fight against BSL will continue.

[Magpie]

Poor Lennox.
You're correct, Rin, that that poor dog shouldn't have been left to suffer for two years during the legal proceedings. The photos of the place where they were keeping him are deplorable. And that's the biggest problem I see in this story. That's no place to hold an animal even for a few days. Even if the plan is to end their life at the end of their stay, that is terrible, terrible conditions.

The family just wanted someone they loved back, of course they fought against the system. Is it too much to hope that the opposing party could at least have taken the trouble to treat a living creature kindly while it was in their possession? I guess we don't know everything about how he was kept, but if Lennox was so stressed that he was losing large hanks of fur off his flank, we can reasonably assume the conditions were sub par. When the dog was taken, the people who took him also assumed responsibility for his treatment. There is no good reason why it should ever have gotten to the point that, as you implied, the kindest thing the family could do for him was allow him to be euthanized. Who treats a living thing, with no personal history of violence, that way?

[shadedragon]

I hear you all talk on ppl shouldn't breed dangerous dogs. But they do. And where are those puppies going to go? Dead? Or somewhere they can be loved and treated like family? Putting a dog to death is to some like putting a child to death. Both lives are precious. Both don't really understand what is going on. But if your child was to be put to death, and you thought there was a chance to break them free, would you try, or would you hand the doctor the ok to let the child go? In my opinion I'd be fighting like mad, and doing all that I could to put the dog and the child in the best conditions possible. I'd come in just to comfort the animal, or the child. I would work my hardest to get them out of their as soon as possible, but I wouldn't give up, and what if you did win, in the end and the child/pet was set free? To know you let your own child or someone else's die without that knowledge.. that's what makes it so hard.
And to discontinue breeding them, when they are beautiful and still precious is like telling all aggressive ppl to not have kids anymore, bc we don't want anymore aggressive ppl. Those kids, what would we do with them if they kept coming? We would want to be there and help them, guide them in the right direction. Just like those kids, those puppies have to be given a chance. We aren't in charge, we can't be Fate and expect it not to come back to us. If we keep taking away those rights to life when we say that all should be free... then maybe we should take a good hard look at what we are doing and deciding, bc we may as well toss ourselves on the list too. Like a government killing off anyone not It but similar or the same as It. I would provide other examples, but that would go a little overboard. We aren't Mother Nature. We aren't the hand of Fate. We like to pretend we are, but we're not.
.. ranting.. angrily :P sry guys, but I'm one of those ppl who just love these creatures, no matter who or what they are. Everyone can change.
just don't forget, that puppy was someone's kid

[Chrysaetos]

I hear you all talk on ppl shouldn't breed dangerous dogs. But they do. And where are those puppies going to go? Dead? Or somewhere they can be loved and treated like family? Nobody here is advocating a culling of puppies. Reproduction can be prevented without taking those measures.

Your comparison with aggressive humans doesn't work, because there's no way we can prevent that and humans can change also. A pitbull is a pitbull ,aggressiveness is an intrinsic trait of them.

You say you 'love' these creatures, let's see how you talk when one attacks your own pet or one of your children..

[Etran]

That is pretty mean to kill a dog just because the way he looks

[shadedragon]

Nobody here is advocating a culling of puppies. Reproduction can be prevented without taking those measures.

Your comparison with aggressive humans doesn't work, because there's no way we can prevent that and humans can change also. A pitbull is a pitbull ,aggressiveness is an intrinsic trait of them.

You say you 'love' these creatures, let's see how you talk when one attacks your own pet or one of your children..
I personally was attacked when I was a child. My cat was ripped up by them as I got older. But I don't stereotype, I give them all a chance. Just bc one attacked or hurt me doesn't mean that I will avoid them for my life- in fact dogs are among my favorite animals and I think this breed is beautiful. Most of my family have had bad experiences with dogs- even golden retrievers. I say it's the personality, how the dog was treated and raised, and not from traits passed down. Aggressive people do have that trust passed down though, as do all creatures. But they can change and learn how to treat it. Dogs can be taught the same- if they are taught they should vent on humans, be the dog a golden retriever or a put bull, then they will. But the animal should be given the chance just as the human is.
I loved my cat. I still have scars from the attack on me. But I forgave the animal, bc I scared it, made it feel that it had to attack. Being a person that talks to spirits, the dog also apologized to me and we get along rather well now. I do not fear him, and I Stat aware of how I make them feel.

[Chrysaetos]

I say it's the personality, how the dog was treated and raised, and not from traits passed down.It's not either/or, it's both.

Some breeds cause more troubles than other breeds.

[shadedragon]

It's not either/or, it's both.

Some breeds cause more troubles than other breeds.
Same applies for humans and all other creatures :tongue:
:) it is both, but its not just the breed. It's the group and family of dogs. You can see that in ppl to sometimes. A breed may give it an appearance, but just like in personality, you can't judge a book by its cover. You have to give it a chance to see it for what it truly is. I know many friendly pit bulls. But I also know more aggressive ones. If you are familiar with astrology, that may give you some keen insight into the dog's personality more so then a breed description will, bc it is far more personal.

[Chrysaetos]

Same applies for humans and all other creatures :tongue:Humans have greater capacity to change compared to pitbulls and other aggressive breeds.A breed may give it an appearance, but just like in personality, you can't judge a book by its cover. You very well can and still be accurate. And dogs do it as well.. I experience that on a daily basis.If you are familiar with astrology, that may give you some keen insight into the dog's personality more so then a breed description will, bc it is far more personal.Astrology has been demonstrated to be absolute bollocks. The movement of planets and the ''time'' of your birth does not affect your, mine, or your dog's personality, love life, and interests.

[shadedragon]

Humans have greater capacity to change compared to pitbulls and other aggressive breeds.
Really? For some people, maybe more so then some dogs, and vice versa.
You very well can and still be accurate. And dogs do it as well.. I experience that on a daily basis.
But predjudices often come into blinding many ppl, even if they aren't aware of this predjudice. And this affects animals too- if they have fears that affects how they see the world. But sometimes that point of view is the very thing that blinds them. If one approaches things objectively enough, it can be seen clearly. But from what I have understood, you seem to see them in the light of being a pitbull, rather than looking at the individual. You can judge ppl- but there is usually always an exception, and many of them on a larger scale.
Astrology has been demonstrated to be absolute bollocks. The movement of planets and the ''time'' of your birth does not affect your, mine, or your dog's personality, love life, and interests.
Has it really? Have you ever tried it? There's a reason why it's still around- it can calculate a person and tell exactly who they are, done by a professional, and even using the Internet you can find Extrodinarily accurate ones. It may sound ridiculous to you, but the facts are still facts.
why don't you try? http://astro.cafeastrology.com/cgi-bin/astro/natal
That one is free, and among the most accurate, lengthy ones I've seen. Give it a try :)

[Chrysaetos]

Has it really? Have you ever tried it? There's a reason why it's still around- it can calculate a person and tell exactly who they are, done by a professional, and even using the Internet you can find Extrodinarily accurate ones. It may sound ridiculous to you, but the facts are still facts.
why don't you try? http://astro.cafeastrology.com/cgi-bin/astro/natal (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fastro.cafeastrology.co m%2Fcgi-bin%2Fastro%2Fnatal)
That one is free, and among the most accurate, lengthy ones I've seen. Give it a try :)Confirmation bias and selective thinking are powerful biases, there is nothing ''extraordinary'' or ''factual'' about astrology. It is one of the biggest delusions that humanity has spawned.

It has been demonstrated that certain dog breeds are more aggressive than other. You deny reality in favor of fantasy. What a fantastic wonderful time pitbull owners have with their pitbulls in their house is irrelevant to what people experience outside. It would be good if this breed was no longer bred.

[shadedragon]

:) oh well. Differences of opinion and thought is all. I see your view and I'm not going to change it. I see things differently based on my experiences, so do you. We both have our own facts. :P I will still always see them as any other creature- give them a chance, and if something happens, help change it so it doesn't happen again but through means that does not bring about negative karmatic debt, so while none are harmed in the learning process, things do get done.
Astrology is a good representation of the reflection of self. It reminds me of Dna, which can tell you a ton of info on yourself, just as astrology does. This Dna is a representation of self just as the surrounding enviroment is- once that is decoded then you have information on yourself.

[Rin]

You say you 'love' these creatures, let's see how you talk when one attacks your own pet or one of your children..
This story is not even about what one would see as dangerous dogs, a 12 year old German shepherd and a 10 year old boxer. The boxer bumps into the back of the German shepherd who at his age has some hip/spinal problems. The pain triggers an attack on the boxer, a fight ensues, the owner tries to separate them. Each dog get hold of one of his arms. The boxer, being a boxer will not let go. Eventually he is able to call his wife and ask for help. In the struggle the whole room gets wrecked, blood all over. Emergency services and help arrive eventually. Despite receiving Tetanus injection and antibiotics the owner has blood poisoning in both arms.

These are loved pets.

[Chrysaetos]

This story is not even about what one would see as dangerous dogs, a 12 year old German shepherd and a 10 year old boxer. The boxer bumps into the back of the German shepherd who at his age has some hip/spinal problems. The pain triggers an attack on the boxer, a fight ensues, the owner tries to separate them. Each dog get hold of one of his arms. The boxer, being a boxer will not let go. Eventually he is able to call his wife and ask for help. In the struggle the whole room gets wrecked, blood all over. Emergency services and help arrive eventually. Despite receiving Tetanus injection and antibiotics the owner has blood poisoning in both arms.

These are loved pets.You lost the context of my post.

[shadedragon]

That ppl do forgive and that fights brakes out often for the same kind of reasons ppl fight over. Tin does have a point, and I although I am sad that such a thing happened, I am thankful she shared the story.
We came here bc Lennox died, and now we argue if all his kind should be wiped out. I grieve his death, and say no more should die.. too many of both ppl and dogs, along with many other creatures, have died for that same reason.. sometimes completely wiped out..

[Chrysaetos]

We came here bc Lennox died, and now we argue if all his kind should be wiped out. Threads evolve y'know.. but carry on.

I don't disagree on people being responsible for their pets, but I won't deny some breeds are more aggressive than other. You can't expect every dog owner to be responsible.. I've encountered so many with the same mental capacity of a cow.. ''Oh nothing will happen, my dog is always an angel and also disciplined..'' but dogs can be very unpredictable..