Eat my dust.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/danielg1414/IMG_0918.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/danielg1414/IMG_0794.jpg

I will never lie to anybody
I will never tell them it doesn't occur
because it does

it is fact

[Triner]

Why are you posting this in the Reiki section? Why not the shamanism section?

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I'm sick of people from the reiki community saying it doesn't happen

wise up

[Reikichris]

Psychotic is a human derived term to differentiate the normal form the unusual, it is about the observer's viewpoint - when with other reiki people I usually feel that it is godd to mixing with normal people - lol.

love
chris

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

reiki comes from Shinto and it upsets me that it distances itself from the authentic

[TheSchlave]

Reikei has stolen from a lot of things. Post more!

[Nebulous]

Troll, I'm glad you posted this. Seriously. It's why I - to put it nicely - am NOT a fan of Reiki. It's a terrible, terrible substitute for the real thing.

Every Reiki "master" I've ever met who's tried to use their "healing" on me has basically forced open my shields and forced a channel, shoved a bunch of feel-goods at me, and left me wide open. I had to actually go over their work and fix what they damaged in the process! - and then take the energy they shoved at me and use it appropriately, a method most Reiki "masters" I've met have absolutely no idea how to do. ((To say nothing of those here, I've largely steered clear of that whole can of worms and choose to pay zero attention to it. Who knows, there might be Reiki users on this forum who actually know what they're doing. Just in general, it's a horribly butchered practice that's kindergarten-level compared to the teachings it comes from.))

It's the equivalent of a world-famous surgeon teaching everyone "YOU TOO CAN BE A SURGEON!" and telling them to just inject the patient with some morphine. "They'll feel great! Occasionally they'll heal [placebo-effect or natural healing that would've happened anyways]! Look at you and your awesome surgeon selves! ...now pay me."

Glad you spoke up about it, Troll.

[Gregatha]

Hi Neb, could you please tell me what a reiki master needs to do to avoid said damage?

Have a great day mate.....cheers. :hug3:

[Reikichris]

Hi Nebulous,
I think you have been unlucky, or perhaps attracted the wrong kind of healers.
Healing comes from within, the 'healer' should only ever facillitate the client to activate thier own healing, no shoving, pushing of forced entry is needed.
The activation is by 'singing the song' that allows the client to remember what it was to be whole and complete.

more on my blog at cactuschris.wordpress

love
chris

[Golden Angel]

Hi Nebulous, im sorry to hear of your experiences and i must say, i have to agree with Reikichris, that you may have been attracted to the wrong kind of healers, like anything in life there is alway's good, and alway's bad. And i agree that these kind of people should not have nor desreve such a lovely gift.
Love GA ;) xxx

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Troll, I'm glad you posted this. Seriously. It's why I - to put it nicely - am NOT a fan of Reiki. It's a terrible, terrible substitute for the real thing.

Every Reiki "master" I've ever met who's tried to use their "healing" on me has basically forced open my shields and forced a channel, shoved a bunch of feel-goods at me, and left me wide open. I had to actually go over their work and fix what they damaged in the process! - and then take the energy they shoved at me and use it appropriately, a method most Reiki "masters" I've met have absolutely no idea how to do. ((To say nothing of those here, I've largely steered clear of that whole can of worms and choose to pay zero attention to it. Who knows, there might be Reiki users on this forum who actually know what they're doing. Just in general, it's a horribly butchered practice that's kindergarten-level compared to the teachings it comes from.))

It's the equivalent of a world-famous surgeon teaching everyone "YOU TOO CAN BE A SURGEON!" and telling them to just inject the patient with some morphine. "They'll feel great! Occasionally they'll heal [placebo-effect or natural healing that would've happened anyways]! Look at you and your awesome surgeon selves! ...now pay me."

Glad you spoke up about it, Troll.

On the contrary I disagree with some of your sentiments

Awakening kundalini means being open

There is both good and bad that comes with that

There will be awe and there will be terror

it is primarily the terror that gets ignored

We have to change this duplicity

tell people the whole story
warn people properly

If you have been disturbed by kundalini awakening it is only natural and nothing to be ashamed of. Nobody did you wrong.

If those kinds of experiences happen to you it means your attunement was authentic and things clicked so congratulations.

Would I prefer it if this subforum was simply called SHINTO?

yes

Do I acknowledge the enormous strides Shinto has made through the attunement of thousands of new young people under the banner of 'reiki'? Yes.

You can't help but appreciate what the reiki community has offered.

but surely, it's contribution to restoring Japanese culture and pagan sensibility ought to be more celebrated.

[Nebulous]

I'm familiar with Kundalini awakening; it wasn't quite the same. In this case the healers in question tended to sort of aim a beam of healing at me that ended up screwing up a lot of my shields and never really healed anything except to give a sort of tingly feel-good sort of effect; whereas when I've been offered things like psychic surgery or shamanic healings or even healings from Buddhist-style practitioners, there was a lot more undeniable effectiveness - the kind of effects doctors get flabbergasted about, you know?

It does sound like around here there are more healers who know what they're talking about. I'm glad you guys cleared that up for me! The healers I dealt with were elsewhere (largely in-person, offline sort of stuff) and admittedly gave the whole Reiki thing a bad name for me, like I said I steered clear of Reiki as a whole after those experiences. Since there were several who weren't really connected with each other, I started to think maybe it was a pattern that might reflect upon the whole...

Sorry I was so harsh about it. I think in light of what you guys have said, I will do a lot more research into Reiki to try and understand. I do know that I often deal with chakras (although, for me, they don't have any sort of color code to them or anything - just white points of energy) when I myself do healing work. From the sound of it, for all I know I might be using Reiki without realizing it!! (Wouldn't THAT be ironic. :redface: )

Thanks again for helping clear things up for me. :hug2:

[Golden Angel]

Hi Nebulous thank you for replying and im glad it has cleared some pionts up for you, there are genuine healers out there and i hope you get to find a good few in your life, i have heard from a friend who is going through a simlar thing and getting ripped off left right and centre and being brain washed, this is a real shame it really is, i hope she see's in time that these sort of people are not good for her.
if you would like me to add you to my healing list to send you some distant healing then please don't hesitate to pm me, i will be more than happy to send you some ;)
Love GA ;) xxx

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Sorry I can't take replies like this seriously

[EmergingPath]

getting ripped off left right and centre and being brain washed, this is a real shame it really is, i hope she see's in time that these sort of people are not good for her.

For me this is the single largest impediment to the expansion and adoption of intention healing by the general public and it is virtually impossible to stop. While word of mouth to your friends about a particular individual may help, as often as not it is met with the "this is my journey and my belief system and I can believe what I want".

The "New Age" (For lack of a better term) community has done themselves a grave injustice in breaking apart holistic systems and "selling" sub-sets and piece parts. (ie James Author Ray and Sweat Lodge as the most public example) It has allowed scammers and frauds to flourish.

It seems like almost every week I hear of a "new" energy healing modality that is better than the last and for only $250 you too can share in its benefits and its "better" than Reiki energy...

For me, I look at energy from the perspective of quantum physics. Energy is always a wave or a particle, can never be destroyed, and can be directed by your focused intention.

:::steps off is soapbox:::: This PSA has been brought to you by the "Better Energy Healers Counsel" :D

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

For me this is the single largest impediment to the expansion and adoption of intention healing by the general public and it is virtually impossible to stop. While word of mouth to your friends about a particular individual may help, as often as not it is met with the "this is my journey and my belief system and I can believe what I want".

The "New Age" (For lack of a better term) community has done themselves a grave injustice in breaking apart holistic systems and "selling" sub-sets and piece parts. (ie James Author Ray and Sweat Lodge as the most public example) It has allowed scammers and frauds to flourish.

It seems like almost every week I hear of a "new" energy healing modality that is better than the last and for only $250 you too can share in its benefits and its "better" than Reiki energy...

For me, I look at energy from the perspective of quantum physics. Energy is always a wave or a particle, can never be destroyed, and can be directed by your focused intention.

:::steps off is soapbox:::: This PSA has been brought to you by the "Better Energy Healers Counsel" :D

What put me off and attracted me to Satanists and other left-hand path people so much was the total lack of cultural understanding of where these healing modalities as you call them come from.

Reiki lifting from Shinto and other traditional Japanese cults is but one glaring example.

Trailer for popular and fantastic Japanese film ONMYOJI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1vmVCWEN48)

Reiki comes from dramatically darker traditions

Shamans work at night.
and they work with troubled souls.

Although shamans can heal, they can also curse

this - is - sorcery

Anybody who doesn't understand this is really misinformed

Check out this music video by 'Immortal' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOOebk_dKFo)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Oni.jpg

Above ^ is an Oni

the Kami are benevolent beings and 'helper' spirits

like the fylga

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/250.jpg

but what puts me off about reiki is the duplicity and the linearity

it is one thing, and that is 'good'

the 'bad' is disrespected and unacknowledged

you have to acknowledge both

It's important to understand that where reiki comes from,
there is no duality of good & evil

a shaman or sorcerer works with both

in order to encounter and know one you must encounter and know the other

I prefer to think of them both as two opposing but harmonious parts of a whole person
and not separated but I digress

I find the Oni fun on a fundamentally important level

[JTGAPNewbie]

it is one thing, and that is 'good'

the 'bad' is disrespected and unacknowledged

How can it be disrespected if it isn't being acknowledged?

[EmergingPath]

this - is - sorcery

Anybody who doesn't understand this is really misinformed

Always someone ready to tell the rest of us we are wrong (aka "misinformed") eh? :rolleyes:

Okay... here we go:

So, I hear you and I acknowledge your very purposely stated narrow opinion and perspective. :thumbsup:

Having said that, I also totally disregard your statement that anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed, as I do with all who state the ignorant (and now standard and boring) "my way is the only way, if you dont agree with me you are wrong, I know, you don't" approach to life.

Your perspective and opinion of shamanism is but one opinion and one slice of a "shaman" perspective. Have you studied any other persectives on Shaman's?

Getting back to the point, I happen to believe that this is energy and intention and the gifts that we are all born with and need not subscribe to any outside forces to utilize them.

[Nebulous]

Sorry I can't take replies like this seriously

Replies like what...are you referring to mine? If so, then why?

Anyway..If you're trying to argue against the whole focus on fluffy lightness, and that most of these healers never do their research, you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. I walk the grey path and try to research everything I can get my hands on. Research is very time-consuming, however, and there are countless sources and topics to parse through.

So as for me - if I'm misinformed, it certainly isn't for lack of wanting to know, nor is it a stubborn narrow-minded approach; it's only because I'm behind on my back-log of things to study in-depth, in between keeping my bills paid and doing that whole responsible adult thing...from symbolism worldwide in various time periods, to creation myths (the older the better), to ancient languages and linguistic evolution, and so on. I mean, you name it, I've been trying to study it as deeply as I could for the last however many years. I have a long-term cultural-studies project I've been working on forfreakingever independently. If you have a particularly great set of sources for study, do tell.

[EmergingPath]

Anyway..If you're trying to argue against the whole focus on fluffy lightness, and that most of these healers never do their research, you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. :thumbsup:

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Always someone ready to tell the rest of us we are wrong (aka "misinformed") eh? :rolleyes:

Okay... here we go:

So, I hear you and I acknowledge your very purposely stated narrow opinion and perspective. :thumbsup:

Having said that, I also totally disregard your statement that anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed, as I do with all who state the ignorant (and now standard and boring) "my way is the only way, if you dont agree with me you are wrong, I know, you don't" approach to life.

Your perspective and opinion of shamanism is but one opinion and one slice of a "shaman" perspective. Have you studied any other persectives on Shaman's?

Getting back to the point, I happen to believe that this is energy and intention and the gifts that we are all born with and need not subscribe to any outside forces to utilize them.

My implication and criticism levelled at the reiki community was that human beings experience more than just happiness, bliss, and give thanks

We also get sad, lose our tempers or get angry when someone wrongs us... such as not giving proper warning about potential psychiatric disturbances from practicing reiki, and we also regret and we yell

Until the reiki community acknowledges the full spectrum of human emotion it will never be taken seriously

Reiki bases itself entirely upon the foundations of human empathic experiences, yet it fails to acknowledge the other 50% of it

this has to change

[Reikichris]

Yes - Troll_ov_Grimness, these (sadness, anger etc.) are still facets that we experience, but the whole point is that this is a journey, not a digital switch over. There is nothing wrong with seeing this as a journey, it is honest, and I'm not sure what reiki community you see that says it only experiences happiness, bliss and thankfulness - perhaps there is something in how you see rather than what you see - or perhaps it is what you want to see - whatever it is it certainly makes you sound very unsettled.

love
chris

[EmergingPath]

I think Chris hit on the point I was going to make. I'm not sure what you are/have "seen" that the "Reiki Community" is doing that is only happy, lovey, superficial stuff. It may be what you have been exposed to or perhaps filtering in only what resonates (or in this case what does not resonate) with you.

I may be wrong so please correct me but by saying "Reiki" are you really saying all of the Energy Healing Modalities and "Light Workers" who are trying to promote positive feelings and emotions?

In any case, when someone does go through Energy work it does allow one to "clear" issues and feelings that may be keeping them on a plateau rather than continuing to grow. Real and lasting clearing of issues will almost always involve going through and dealing with the emotions tied to that “blockage”. Those emotions are typically very strong, such as hate, regret, shame, etc.

“Reiki” and all energy healing modalities are totally about acknowledging, accepting and resolving all feelings and emotions.

I get that some sites and practioniers are only about the “fluffy white light of pure goodness and happiness”, just as some of those who promote the “Left hand path” are only about negativity, fear and evil. Extremes are always around us and are how we know where the edges are located J

It is just my opinion but I would tell you to know the extremes, even discourse with the extremes, but don’t get lost in one extreme over the other nor paint with such a broad brush that everything is finite and always an “us verses them” or a “ right versus wrong”. Everything is part of the universe, and everything has it’s purpose.

[Reikichris]

The process of self healing, and even more so soul retrieval can be very painful, far from the joy and bliss that many would seek, but ultimately one has to go through these kind of processes in order to heal issues that may be quiescent but are still present. There is nothing wrong with this - it is part of being.

love
chris

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

the healing is never accomplished
we work through it

it is not a destination to be reached, and then you say "I'm healed now. I can stop being sad."

this is the problem with reiki
why it is not taken seriously

[Enya]

the healing is never accomplished
we work through it

it is not a destination to be reached, and then you say "I'm healed now. I can stop being sad."

this is the problem with reiki
why it is not taken seriously
Well I don't know... I take it pretty seriously... and I have never, ever regarded myself as 100% healed or encouraged my students to do so... some have said they won't give healing to others until they themselves are healed, in which case they'll never progress! Personally, I've yet to meet a true reiki healer who thinks the way you describe.

[Reikichris]

I agree that 'being healed' is not a destination to be reached, but like Enya I do not recognise the people you are talking about - perhaps it is your perception or just the group you have been unlucky enough to meet.
Equally I beleive that when we reach our destination, the end of our journey we will be in a state of complete healing.

love
chris

the healing is never accomplished
we work through it

it is not a destination to be reached, and then you say "I'm healed now. I can stop being sad."

this is the problem with reiki
why it is not taken seriously

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I agree that 'being healed' is not a destination to be reached, but like Enya I do not recognise the people you are talking about - perhaps it is your perception or just the group you have been unlucky enough to meet.
Equally I beleive that when we reach our destination, the end of our journey we will be in a state of complete healing.

love
chris

What makes me uncomfortable about 'healing' other people is that they cannot feel it, and if they do, you are potentially opening doors in their psyche that they might regret

for me it is a deeply personal thing

[Reikichris]

Yes - this is why it is important that people heal themselves, and that the healer just facillitates, anything else and the healer begins to impose thier needs on the situation.

love
chris

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

it is not possible to heal those who do not wish it
but I also recognize the possibility that it is possible to open doors for people who will not be prepared

Whether it be Vietnamese Len Dong
Japanese Shinto (..reiki)
Victorian Spiritualism
Korean Muism
or yoga

all
ALL
-ALL!-

of these spiritual traditions feature...

can you guess?

CAN YOU?

PSYCHOSIS

all of them!

and I have references for this

including the DSM-IV
www.spiritualemergence.info

Motohisa Yamakage's Essence of Shinto
Dr. Kim Tae-kon's Korean Shamanism -Muism
Spirits Without Borders by Karen Fjelstad
The Darkened Room by Alex Owen

[Reikichris]

"it is not possible to heal those who do not wish it" - perhaps, it is certainly possible to create changes in people even if they do not wish it, what one calls healing may or may not be included - definitions are therefore important.

love
chris