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View Full Version : Free Will ? What is it ? Illutions What are They ?


Lynn
02-10-2010, 01:10 AM
Free will, the ability of one to make choices, free from certain kinds of constraints.

It is the ability to make a choice on an action that might well have various alternatives. We can look at free will being connected to moral codes of conduct. Where one has to be true to the rules the govern one’s actions. It too goes deeper than just that as we are more than the physical body we have . There is a Soul to us that we too have responsibly to for that path of learning. Free will on that level might well mean just being able to show and know the value of LOVe and to extend that in friendships. NOT to always have it on the level of moral responsibilities.

When we think on illusion we might well think on distortions of the brain. We could well think on a disorganization or distorting of our very own reality. If we take it from the physical point of view we know ( or do we) that our feet are on the ground and we are walking on a solid surface. That is not an illusion.

What is an illusion is hearing a voice that is not there, or is it deeper ?
 
Do we have free will ?

For the most part yes, there are rules of social and moral contacts we must go along with ( or should go along with). That is there to keep society in check and to make it easier for us to function around others. Where free will comes in is maybe more in our alone and private time. In our Mediations and Dreams, where the brain is free to shut off some and the Soul is free to wonder.

There will always be one’s that want to rock the boat and test the limits of right and wrong, too there are one’s that suffer sadly from mental deficiencies that know not what is real and what is not. Til the one day man maybe maps and understands that human brain.

For now we all have to do our best to service our Soul . On that path to Enlightenment and Inner Peace.
 


Lynn
 
 
 

Lisa
02-10-2010, 03:43 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! !


:D

Verunia
02-10-2010, 04:26 PM
:icon_eek: Oh dear, the infamous free will threads. They have returned to SF with a vengeance, haha.

I say why even wonder about free will, why not just enjoy the freedom felt in being alive

But if free will is something, then I think it's a bit overrated.

David
02-10-2010, 08:16 PM
Will comes into play when we know something from deep within our hearts is telling us to do something and then stick to it, that choice in any one given situation be it right or wrong will happen, it maintains that energy in your heart while you wait for things to move in your wills direction.. just remember a willfull act has already been chosen, it MUST form in your life,

will is a tool for creating, it moves energy from which everything around us is formed, and places in your hands oportunites that your WILL would have placed before you

if you fall you WILL get back up,
if you loose you WILL start again,
if you fail then you WILL succeed,
you fall ill you WILL look forward to being healed

Will takes away the doubt, doubts are little demons in your heaed saying... 'i cant' 'i wont' 'im unable to' RUBBISH.........

I BLOOMIN WILL..

David
02-10-2010, 08:25 PM
illusions...
like mists in the morning they come
yet i walk amonst the fields and the trees
and see only a blanket of soup before me,

so thick it forms i see no path before me
as i stumble over mine own feet
blinded by the very thing i fear

illusions my friend, illusions
it is as if the heavens have met the earth
and mingled as one

it reveals the rolling mists of illusions as i
climb to see that all the time i was in a valley

earthprowler
02-10-2010, 08:39 PM
:confused: could you repeat the question please? :D

mahakali
02-10-2010, 11:37 PM
hey i just responded on another thread that seems to be about the same thing only from edgar cayces point of view http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=32582&posted=1#post32582 i find him quite interesting for those of you who have not seen the you tube vids on him its a big recommendation from me. theres vids on reincarnation all the way to holistic healthcare.

CuriousSnowflake
03-10-2010, 05:10 AM
Hey, may as well jump back in.

IMHO, we are all One, yet we have perfect free will because the One is us, thus there is nothing to keep us from making our choices.

CS

Gem
03-10-2010, 08:28 AM
yes I'm familiar with the free will debate... and it basically comes down to... if a choice is made that effects everything else, so everything else effects the choices that are made.

I guess it comes down to the primal cause, which implies there is a source, a begining of time, and and end result, which in any finite context there is, and of course any context must be finite, but in life one might find there is a finite within an infinite, so the question lies in who or what defines the boundries of that context.

In the end though, if one likes apples more than pears, then it's all apples.

andrew g
03-10-2010, 09:10 AM
Like Gem, who I am psychically feeling is a rather cool guitar playing surf lovin dude :), I also have some familiarity with the ins and outs of this debate.

Im not going to actually address the idea of 'free will' exactly because it seems to mean different things to different people, but what I would say is that life is constantly infinitely interconnecting and inter-relating. What this means is 2 things. The first is that its all perfect because it HAS to be - things cannot be different from the way they are. The second is that its not possible for an event to happen, or a choice to be made, that is uninfluenced and somehow separate from the interconnecting and inter-relating nature of life. It is all one and we are many of the one. Life is inter-dependent by nature. Which is good news to hear if non-judgment and peace is the goal. Its not such good news if sovereignty, independence and control is the goal.

Hi to Curious Snowflake and to everyone else on the thread by the way.

Gem
04-10-2010, 06:00 AM
I will. It occurs as a wish toward some future moment, an intention to act.

I am free. Is quite a different thing really, because one might say 'I will earn a million dollars' and once the million is gained he would be very attached to it. So many people are like the LOA of mansions and once gained call themselves successful, and so see with scorn the street wino who is comparitively a failure, so he experiences a detestment of the wino.

So he gets what he wants and says 'I have free will' but he only has will, because he is not free from his craving, attachments and judgements.

TzuJanLi
04-10-2010, 01:04 PM
Greetings..


things cannot be different from the way they are.

Are you certain of that, Andrew? Have your understandings not changed over time? Do you engage Life differently than you did 10 years ago?

Life is inter-dependent by nature.

Of course Life is interdependent.. when i was young, i lived up in the mountains of rural East Tennessee, and our property depended on a stream for its water.. another family, further up the hollow, had built a dam and diverted much of the water to make a pond.. we were all interconnected in that mountain valley, further down the valley where the stream was joined by other streams to make a small river, there was a waterwheel.. the diminished flow due to the dam and due to the new bridge on another stream didn't have enough force to turn the wheel.... the family that built the dam made an independent choice to do so, even though they were interconnected with the rest of the valley.. and, after some very civil discussions, they revised their choice.. we found a way to flow the streem through the pond and back into its original channel..

Independence thrives and flourishes together with interconnectedness, it is a beautiful symbiosis.. it is the spontaneity and change we call 'Life'..

Be well..

andrew g
04-10-2010, 02:24 PM
Greetings..


Are you certain of that, Andrew? Have your understandings not changed over time? Do you engage Life differently than you did 10 years ago?

Yes, my understandings have changed, and yes I would say I relate in a different way these days. But thats stil perfect, thats still the way it is because it has to be.

Of course Life is interdependent.. when i was young, i lived up in the mountains of rural East Tennessee, and our property depended on a stream for its water.. another family, further up the hollow, had built a dam and diverted much of the water to make a pond.. we were all interconnected in that mountain valley, further down the valley where the stream was joined by other streams to make a small river, there was a waterwheel.. the diminished flow due to the dam and due to the new bridge on another stream didn't have enough force to turn the wheel.... the family that built the dam made an independent choice to do so, even though they were interconnected with the rest of the valley.. and, after some very civil discussions, they revised their choice.. we found a way to flow the streem through the pond and back into its original channel..

It seems like an independent choice, but actually its still inter-dependent. You didnt make the decision objectivity. Sounds like a cool place to have lived by the way.

Independence thrives and flourishes together with interconnectedness, it is a beautiful symbiosis.. it is the spontaneity and change we call 'Life'..

Be well..

Inter-dependence and interconnectedness go hand in hand - independence and interconnectedness do not.

TzuJanLi
04-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Greetings..


Inter-dependence and interconnectedness go hand in hand - independence and interconnectedness do not.

Hi Andrew: They ALL go together.. it is 'YOU' setting limitations on your own experiences of existing, and that's cool, it IS your freewill to choose that belief..

It seems like an independent choice, but actually its still inter-dependent.

it seems like that because that's what it was.. now, 50 years later you are telling a story about it to support what 'you' believe.. your 'mind' is weaving your beliefs into a passionate story that cannot let 'ISness' stand unchallenged.. you feel compelled to tell me i am wrong, your mind is controlling you.. you cannot see this situation objectively, you claim no one can.. if you cannot see objectively, how can you be certain of anything?

Be well..

andrew g
04-10-2010, 03:04 PM
Greetings..


Hi Andrew: They ALL go together.. it is 'YOU' setting limitations on your own experiences of existing, and that's cool, it IS your freewill to choose that belief..

They dont all go together, and I am not the one setting the limitations! Oh to have that kind of power hehe. Independence and interconnectivity do not go together. We are subjective beings without independence, sovereignty, and without the power of autonomy or objectivity.

it seems like that because that's what it was.. now, 50 years later you are telling a story about it to support what 'you' believe.. your 'mind' is weaving your beliefs into a passionate story that cannot let 'ISness' stand unchallenged.. you feel compelled to tell me i am wrong, your mind is controlling you.. you cannot see this situation objectively, you claim no one can.. if you cannot see objectively, how can you be certain of anything?

Be well..

Im just saying what I see Bob, and what I see is inter-dependence and inter-connectivity. Im sorry if you think Im trying to tell you that you are wrong, its not really like that even if it seems like that. Im actually just happy and in joy to be talking to you right now.

I cant be certain of anything because I am not an objective being, but I am at peace with not being certain of anything. I dont live with uncertainty just as much as I dont live with certainty.

Wind of Grace
04-10-2010, 03:06 PM
Tzu... i lived up in the mountains of rural East Tennessee

Wow Tzu! You're a true Southerner! COOL !!! Have you kept your wonderful accent?

CuriousSnowflake
04-10-2010, 03:17 PM
Ahh, hail, hail, the gang's almost all here. All we need is the Phrog and HD for a full set. :D

CS

TzuJanLi
04-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Greetings..

Wow Tzu! You're a true Southerner! COOL !!! Have you kept your wonderful accent?
Hi Grace: My parents moved to Florida when i was 7 years old, i spent my summers at my grandmother's horse farm in the mountains.. when we got to Fla. the teacher called my parents for a conference to discuss my 'speech'.. while the accent was its own issue, i also stuttered far worse than Porky Pig, so.. between the two, i spent 3 years in speech therapy.. what remains is a hint of 'The Old South', a genteel-like softness of expression.. until i get excited or nervous, then it can, as they say, "go South"..

Part of the speech therapy was imitating different accents, from which i developed a love of language and the effect of accent on expression.. i am fond of employing very subtle changes of accent during conversation to enhance or add emphasis to a phrase..

Be well..

TzuJanLi
04-10-2010, 05:28 PM
Greetings..


I cant be certain of anything because I am not an objective being, but I am at peace with not being certain of anything.

Hi Andrew: You seem very certain that "They dont all go together"..

Be well..

andrew g
04-10-2010, 05:38 PM
Greetings..


Hi Andrew: You seem very certain that "They dont all go together"..

Be well..

It sounds certain because thats how words tend to sound when a statement is made, but the statements being made are not ones that are being held as knowings (or beliefs) of the mind.

Wind of Grace
04-10-2010, 05:52 PM
Tzu... Hi Grace: My parents moved to Florida when i was 7 years old, i spent my summers at my grandmother's horse farm in the mountains.. when we got to Fla. the teacher called my parents for a conference to discuss my 'speech'.. while the accent was its own issue, i also stuttered far worse than Porky Pig, so.. between the two, i spent 3 years in speech therapy.. what remains is a hint of 'The Old South', a genteel-like softness of expression.. until i get excited or nervous, then it can, as they say, "go South"..

Part of the speech therapy was imitating different accents, from which i developed a love of language and the effect of accent on expression.. i am fond of employing very subtle changes of accent during conversation to enhance or add emphasis to a phrase..

Be well..
Thank you so much Tzu for sharing part of your life story with me. I'm thrilled that you were able to have the support and encouragement that you needed to overcome the stuttering that you experienced in your early years. One of my uncles stutters to this very day, and my mother(his sister) overcame it on her own somehow before her teenage years. It started suddenly from having been traumatized by a very disturbing experience when she was very little, but there's no trace of it left today.

One of my earlier boyfriends stuttered too. It truly never bothered me at all(I had been around my uncle alot; he, my aunt and my cousins lived a street away), but this boyfriend was regularly upset about it, and needed alot of reassurance.

I love languages too, I do speak french fluently(and almost consistently for the past many years as my boyfriend is french speaking). I would love to learn italian next, I feel it would be easy for me.. english, french and italian are all latin based languages.

I adore a southern accent!..and Southern Comfort(the drink) too! :D I have family in Virginia, and we all spent time in South Carolina a few years ago. I was spoiled to hear it all around me for a couple of weeks, and I will definitely return someday to soak it all in again. It's simply superb, and so pleasingly polite to boot !!!

TzuJanLi
04-10-2010, 06:33 PM
Greetings..


Thank you so much Tzu for sharing part of your life story with me.

A tip of the hat, and a gracious bow, to you Ms. Grace.. i should enjoy a walk onto the veranda with you, and perhaps one of our specialty beverages, a 'Southern Sweet Tea Teaser', liberally refreshed with Southern Comfort.. as you might be aware, Sister Janis (Joplin) had a fondness for the Comfort, Bless her soul, so it's best sipped.. intentions notwithstanding..

Be well..

Wind of Grace
04-10-2010, 06:49 PM
Tzu... A tip of the hat, and a gracious bow, to you Ms. Grace.. i should enjoy a walk onto the veranda with you, and perhaps one of our specialty beverages, a 'Southern Sweet Tea Teaser', liberally refreshed with Southern Comfort.. as you might be aware, Sister Janis (Joplin) had a fondness for the Comfort, Bless her soul, so it's best sipped.. intentions notwithstanding..
Thank you kindly Sir, and I do have a collection of lovely teacups*(very true! I have about 50 original designs or so)... so that smooth southern drawl, a few drops of Comfort in a couple of cups of steaming hot tea, and some Janis(Bless her heart) in the background sounds like a purrrty fine time on the veranda to me!

Cheers!

TzuJanLi
04-10-2010, 07:50 PM
Greetings..

a few drops of Comfort in a couple of cups of steaming hot tea, and some Janis(Bless her heart) in the background sounds like a purrrty fine time on the veranda to me!
Frankly, my dear.. i can't think of anything better..

Be well..

mahakali
04-10-2010, 08:21 PM
greeting from a Georgia peach! I think there’s a balance to everything. there’s no one way to anything. in saying that it will limit your horizons. there is a sort of destiny or karma but always a way to go around it. there are many types of karma, one being what one would say is an inevitable outcome like the rise and fall of Atlantis repeating itself again now.
A person can change a thousand years of 'bad karma' just by realizing ones true self and using ones will power to change and be a humble person.

ok stay with me for a second

Maybe in one life a person became more aware and died. then they would be able to choose more consciously what to do next. perhaps they could choose to be reborn with particular parents that would teach them the lessons they wanted to learn. maybe there parents were impatient but intelligent and taught them well then kicked them out on there own to learn the lessons the hard way. this may seem like bad karma, but after all the tribulations (that that doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger) they actually understand more about life and become enlightened because of it.

I think that karma is more of the fabric that holds together the universe and our free will is what really runs the show.

even with quantum physics it is said that you could go back in time, kill your father and nothing would change in your dimension. like Leonard Susskind said we could go through a black hole and nothing is lost our energy is converted into a type of hologram and sent back in our dimension.

you might be saying what in the world does this have to do with free will?

the universe is far more complex and its just an illusion anyway all dreamed up by us. the rules were meant to be twisted stretched and bent, the world is meant to be played with. there is definitely an order yes or everything would just tear apart, but there’s definitely play to the fabric and that is choice.