Spiritualism versus Witchcraft

[knightofalbion]

(In response to those who ignorantly link spiritualism with witchcraft and the like)

Spiritualism, one can tell them, means the opposite to Materialism. That is, a concept of a spiritual universe as opposed to a chance 'accident'; the concept that all is Spirit, or God, manifesting in manifold forms. The concept that man is spirit, a soul clad in a physical body while on earth, and in finer bodies of a higher vibrational frequency in other spheres after physical 'death'.

One can tell them that Spiritualism is based on proven communication with the so-called 'dead' who are very much alive, and that the teachings of Spiritualism have been and are being given to us by highly evolved disincarnate teachers, specially trained for the contact, generally referred to as The White Brotherhood, acting on behalf of the Christ Spirit which is universal.

One can tell them that the fundamental law of the universe is Love, Service, the overcoming of the lower self, and continuous spiritual progression up the spheres of light - the exact opposite to black magic or witchcraft which descecrates love, seeks only power over others, power over material gain, serves the worst instincts of the lower self to a bestial degree, and pushes people down into the spheres of darkness.

Tell them that Spiritualism is not a belief, nor does it rely on faith, because it is based on knowledge....

Finally, one can tell them that Spiritualism is religion, all religion in its pristine form before it was corrupted by man-made theologies.....

- Peggy Mason (From 'New Age Companion')

[Quintessence]

I think you need to be a bit more clear with your use of the term "witchcraft," because there is a contemporary religious/occult movement that identifies under said name which is in no way "black magic" or "power seeking" (Wicca is a form of contemporary religions Witchcraft, for example). Without clarifying, some of the statements you make here are offensive to such practitioners.

[knightofalbion]

This is the Spiritualism section. What the article is about is clear enough.

I'm sure people have the intelligence to know what side of the fence they are and what applies to them and what doesn't.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Spiritualists are not witches nor warlocks

Witches & Warlocks use ceremonial magic

Mediums commune with spirits
but that is all they do

[Quintessence]

I'm sure people have the intelligence to know what side of the fence they are and what applies to them and what doesn't.

I wouldn't make that assumption. Too many newcomers, ill-informed people, and idiots in the world for that. :D

Plus, I've been Neopagan too long to not be sensitive to people conflating "witchcraft" with "malevolent spellcraft" carelessly, especially when talking about issues pertaining to real-life religion and spirituality. If this were fiction, I wouldn't care as much. Examining the relationship between Spiritualism and Witchcraft - when we're not conflating Witchcraft with malevolent spellcraft - will paint a different picture. If the goal is to be informative, using clear terminology is important, yes? Spiritualism vs. malevolent spellcraft is one thing, Spiritualism vs. contemporary religious Witchcraft is entirely a different topic, right?

[knightofalbion]

If you are following the path of Love and Service, if you are striving to overcome your lower self, if you believe in continuous spiritual progression up the spheres of Light, then we are in complete agreement.

[mac]

As a long-time regular on SF, and especially so the 'Spiritualism' forum, I'm struggling to understand why a Neopagan member is expressing sensitivity about the careless conflation of witchcraft and malevolent spellcraft in a forum about Modern Spiritualism.....:confused1:

It was, though, a fair reason to start this thread on this basis of an explanation for those, quote: "...who ignorantly link spiritualism with witchcraft and the like."

Ideally it's Spiritualism rather than 'spiritualism', the latter being a catch-all description, the former being specific to the religion and philosophy of (Modern) Spiritualism.

Whatever the confusion concerning witchcraft et al, it would be better for it to be discussed in a 'Witchcraft' (or whatever) forum.

quote: "Spiritualism vs. contemporary religious Witchcraft is entirely a different topic, right?" No sir. That's no topic at all.

That of Spiritualism versus spiritualism might be except that it's already been done to death.

[Animus27]

As a long-time regular on SF, and especially so the 'Spiritualism' forum, I'm struggling to understand why a Neopagan member is expressing sensitivity about the careless conflation of witchcraft and malevolent spellcraft in a forum about Modern Spiritualism.....:confused1:

Probably because careless conflation of witchcraft with malevolence and negativity can lead people to think all self-proclaimed witches are out to harm and cause chaos. Regardless of the forum, it's still an unneeded and offensive blending of the terms "black magic" and witchcraft in general that can perpetuate stereotypes.

[mac]

Probably because careless conflation of witchcraft with malevolence and negativity can lead people to think all self-proclaimed witches are out to harm and cause chaos. Regardless of the forum, it's still an unneeded and offensive blending of the terms "black magic" and witchcraft in general that can perpetuate stereotypes.

I've read the piece again and this time more carefully. :redface: I now agree with what you've said.

sorry

[Quintessence]

Probably because careless conflation of witchcraft with malevolence and negativity can lead people to think all self-proclaimed witches are out to harm and cause chaos. Regardless of the forum, it's still an unneeded and offensive blending of the terms "black magic" and witchcraft in general that can perpetuate stereotypes.

Exactly. It reminds me of this pathetic excuse for religious journalism (http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Page-News-and-Views/What-can-the-Third-World-teach-us-about-witchcraft.aspx) that hit BeliefNet fairly recently. This article doesn't just conflate contemporary religious Witchcraft with "black magic" but with pop culture imaginings of Witches among other things. It's a terrible article, and had quite a backlash among the Neopagan blogosphere. Knight's post isn't anywhere near as bad as this article, but I still have to call things like this when I see it. :D I realize it's unlikely any disrespect was intended in this case.

[Animus27]

Exactly. It reminds me of this pathetic excuse for religious journalism (http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Page-News-and-Views/What-can-the-Third-World-teach-us-about-witchcraft.aspx) that hit BeliefNet fairly recently. This article doesn't just conflate contemporary religious Witchcraft with "black magic" but with pop culture imaginings of Witches among other things. It's a terrible article, and had quite a backlash among the Neopagan blogosphere. Knight's post isn't anywhere near as bad as this article, but I still have to call things like this when I see it. :D I realize it's unlikely any disrespect was intended in this case.
I've never really had much respect for BeliefNet. They tend to be very Christian-centric and misrepresent religions, in my opinion at least. And that article just confirms my feelings :tongue:

[mac]

This may come as little reassurance but traffic and interest in this 'Spiritualism' forum is slight and even though you have justified concerns about what was said by the original piece, few will read it anyway.

Even fewer would react I'd wager.

[knightofalbion]

I should point out the lead post is quoted from a much longer article and 'that' bit refers only to those walking the Left-Hand Path.

I would sincerely like to hope all those concerned here can see themselves in the first part of the sentence in any case...

It's a very interesting book (New Age Companion) Peggy is no longer with us alas. She was a remarkable lady and she was my friend.
She was a highly accomplished journalist; she was a highly gifted medium/psychic; she was directly involved in the channelling of the Silver Birch teachings - she worked with Maurice Barbanell; she was a staff writer for Psychic News and Two Worlds for over 30 years; she was involved in much 'rescue' work; and a journalistic capacity she was involved in the translation of the Eva Braun dairies.

Totally off topic, but from there...
'She wrote that Hitler had been cowering and trembling in his bedroom the previous night, pointing into the corner and mouthing the words 'My master is there! My master is there!" He appeared terrified.
As everyone knows, the top Nazis were deeply involved in black magic'

A timely reminder to all those who are foolish enough to walk the LHP. It's not just becoming entangled in a mass of negative karma that will have to be untangled and redeemed before any spiritual progression can resume, nor ending up in the lower astral, but, as evil attracts evil, it's picking up an uninvited guest as well...

[knightofalbion]

I wouldn't make that assumption. Too many newcomers, ill-informed people, and idiots in the world for that. :D

In this thread at least I believe everyone is knowledgeable on the matter.

Though in the wider world, I have to concede, yes, you are right about that!

Knowledge without wisdom is a dangerous thing, as they say.

[mac]

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Modern Spiritualist and very disappointed that reference to black magic has been introduced into this forum.

Over a number of years I've tried my best (here and elsewhere) to offer simple information about Spiritualism and also to have removed any material not linked or relevant to it. But now it's been deliberately introduced by a supporter of Spiritualism and I find that highly regrettable.

I support those who were offended by the comparison but more importantly I deplore that an opportunity to discuss black magic was provided this way.

[knightofalbion]

Mac: The piece, if you read it carefully, is specifically aimed at those who distort what Spiritualism is all about.

I think it puts quite beautifully and precisely what it is, in reality, all about.

In fact I'd go so far as to say it is the finest explanation of Spiritualism I've come across, which is why I posted it.

If the conversation veered into black magic, well, as you say that is regrettable, but one can only go with the flow, so to speak.

If you want an opportunity to discuss black magic & the Left-Hand Path another way, why not start a new thread specifically for the purpose? I'm sure it would ensure some lively debate.

[mac]

Mac: The piece, if you read it carefully, is specifically aimed at those who distort what Spiritualism is all about.

I think it puts quite beautifully and precisely what it is, in reality, all about.

In fact I'd go so far as to say it is the finest explanation of Spiritualism I've come across, which is why I posted it.

If the conversation veered into black magic, well, as you say that is regrettable, but one can only go with the flow, so to speak.

If you want an opportunity to discuss black magic & the Left-Hand Path another way, why not start a new thread specifically for the purpose? I'm sure it would ensure some lively debate.
I did read it carefully and it promotes Spiritualism beautifully.

The bad bit was the reference to black magic which I had missed initially - mea culpa. Remove that comparison, re-title the thread as an explanation of Spiritualism and I wouldn't demur.

I'm not a supporter of, or believer in, black magic (or any other form of magic come to that) I don't know anything about magic but I support the right of those who do to defend it. The pity of this is that it's had to occur in a forum for Spiritualism.

As I've already stressed I'm a long-time Spiritualist so why would you think I might, quote: "....want an opportunity to discuss black magic & the Left-Hand Path another way......?" :icon_frown:

[OceanSoul]

I believe you can link both. You're free to believe what you like, it's not one dimensional. If you believe in both, there is your link.

[mac]

I believe you can link both. You're free to believe what you like, it's not one dimensional. If you believe in both, there is your link.
One can always believe anything one chooses to, and link that to something else, but those who actually understand the subjects may disagree that the linkage is justified....

[knightofalbion]

The understanding of spiritualism...

Promote Truth, oppose Darkness and subjugate the ego...

[mac]

The understanding of spiritualism...

Promote Truth, oppose Darkness and subjugate the ego...

I suggest that statement could be applied to many persuasions - Spiritualism is rather more simple and specific in its operation.

As you're not using the convention of writing 'Spiritualism' (ie religion of Modern Spiritualism) with a capital 'S' I'm wondering if you're referring to it at all or are speaking about spiritualism/spirituality?

[Sybilline]

Probably because careless conflation of witchcraft with malevolence and negativity can lead people to think all self-proclaimed witches are out to harm and cause chaos. Regardless of the forum, it's still an unneeded and offensive blending of the terms "black magic" and witchcraft in general that can perpetuate stereotypes.

True! Very 14th century, but sadly still around. :(

[knightofalbion]

I suggest that statement could be applied to many persuasions - Spiritualism is rather more simple and specific in its operation.

As you're not using the convention of writing 'Spiritualism' (ie religion of Modern Spiritualism) with a capital 'S' I'm wondering if you're referring to it at all or are speaking about spiritualism/spirituality?

As we are in the 'Spiritualism' section, yes, that is what I am talking about.

'Promote Truth, oppose Darkness and subjugate the ego'

I was making a subtle and gentlemanly point I shouldn't have had to be making...

[mac]

As we are in the 'Spiritualism' section, yes, that is what I am talking about.

'Promote Truth, oppose Darkness and subjugate the ego'

I was making a subtle and gentlemanly point I shouldn't have had to be making...
Simply because individuals post in the 'Spiritualism' forum doesn't automatically mean their comments are about Spiritualism. :wink: As I remarked earlier, your line was equally applicable to many other persuasions anyway.....

I can't see why you remark that you (quote) "....shouldn't have had to be making" (quote) a "...subtle and gentlemanly point" anyway. You made a choice to respond - why do you think you had to?

My earlier point wasn't about "understanding Spiritualism" incidentally. I had said "One can always believe anything one chooses to, and link that to something else, but those who actually understand the subjects may disagree that the linkage is justified...."

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

the reason why spiritualism gets mixed up with witchcraft and sorcery is because in other cultures all of those things inter-relate

[Serenity Bear]

I've known witches and warlocks who have been Spiritualist and it's not until you get to know them that they say the are pagan. wiccas, or even into the dark arts (oh thanks JK Rowling for that phrase). One guy medium even bragged that his whole circle got naked during Spiritualistic meditation, another a women told me she would send out spells to heal but also nasty ones and thought it was a 'laugh'. These two were flegling mediums. The ''Charmed' series seems to have mixed it well.

How can anyone believe in the 7 Principles and be a black witch thinking its a 'laugh' to send nasty so called spells to people and psychic attacks. To me that is totally against what Spiritualist believe in.

As far as I know there are only a few cultures that inter-relate spirit communication with witchcraft, the majority use meditation as a form of contact.

For me I have found those who are not true Spiritualist are very loud noisey people who think very little of others and show very little compassion. Everything is for them and no one else, from playing loud music to getting legless on booze, to smoking around asthmatics you name it I've seen it. If you sit back and watch those with true spirit intent are quite and calm people who very often put everyone else before themselves which they do quite naturally. They help and never hinder.

[knightofalbion]

I've known witches and warlocks who have been Spiritualist and it's not until you get to know them that they say the are pagan. wiccas, or even into the dark arts (oh thanks JK Rowling for that phrase). One guy medium even bragged that his whole circle got naked during Spiritualistic meditation, another a women told me she would send out spells to heal but also nasty ones and thought it was a 'laugh'. These two were flegling mediums. The ''Charmed' series seems to have mixed it well.

How can anyone believe in the 7 Principles and be a black witch thinking its a 'laugh' to send nasty so called spells to people and psychic attacks. To me that is totally against what Spiritualist believe in.

As far as I know there are only a few cultures that inter-relate spirit communication with witchcraft, the majority use meditation as a form of contact.

For me I have found those who are not true Spiritualist are very loud noisey people who think very little of others and show very little compassion. Everything is for them and no one else, from playing loud music to getting legless on booze, to smoking around asthmatics you name it I've seen it. If you sit back and watch those with true spirit intent are quite and calm people who very often put everyone else before themselves which they do quite naturally. They help and never hinder.


Firstly, no true Spiritualist would ever engage in naked cavorting or casting spells, certainly not 'nasty' ones!

Secondly, yes, 'By its fruit is the tree known'. No place for ego or selfishness in Service.
Service is the coin of the spirit.

[Occultist]

(In response to those who ignorantly link spiritualism with witchcraft and the like)

Spiritualism, one can tell them, means the opposite to Materialism. That is, a concept of a spiritual universe as opposed to a chance 'accident'; the concept that all is Spirit, or God, manifesting in manifold forms. The concept that man is spirit, a soul clad in a physical body while on earth, and in finer bodies of a higher vibrational frequency in other spheres after physical 'death'.

One can tell them that Spiritualism is based on proven communication with the so-called 'dead' who are very much alive, and that the teachings of Spiritualism have been and are being given to us by highly evolved disincarnate teachers, specially trained for the contact, generally referred to as The White Brotherhood, acting on behalf of the Christ Spirit which is universal.

One can tell them that the fundamental law of the universe is Love, Service, the overcoming of the lower self, and continuous spiritual progression up the spheres of light - the exact opposite to black magic or witchcraft which descecrates love, seeks only power over others, power over material gain, serves the worst instincts of the lower self to a bestial degree, and pushes people down into the spheres of darkness.

Tell them that Spiritualism is not a belief, nor does it rely on faith, because it is based on knowledge....

Finally, one can tell them that Spiritualism is religion, all religion in its pristine form before it was corrupted by man-made theologies.....

- Peggy Mason (From 'New Age Companion')

Okay 1. I am a Witch not a Wiccan there is a major difference.
I do not descecrate anything, my mother was a witch and her mother and so on and same with my fathers people.
There is no such thing as black magick all magick is pure and balanced like nature. Its the heart of the human that can twist anything and make it sound evil through personal fears and ignorance.
So before you come down on my culture and the way I was raised I suggest you study up on Witchcraft.

[Occultist]

I think you need to be a bit more clear with your use of the term "witchcraft," because there is a contemporary religious/occult movement that identifies under said name which is in no way "black magic" or "power seeking" (Wicca is a form of contemporary religions Witchcraft, for example). Without clarifying, some of the statements you make here are offensive to such practitioners.
Wicca is not Witchcraft Wicca is a religion not a practise or culture. No matter what kind of Witch you tend to label yourself or other in no form of the craft is pure evil.

[Occultist]

As we are in the 'Spiritualism' section, yes, that is what I am talking about.

'Promote Truth, oppose Darkness and subjugate the ego'

I was making a subtle and gentlemanly point I shouldn't have had to be making...
The only darkness I see is judmental kinds and ignorance in saying black magick and witchcraft when you have no clue on the subject at hand.

[knightofalbion]

Okay 1. I am a Witch not a Wiccan there is a major difference.
I do not descecrate anything, my mother was a witch and her mother and so on and same with my fathers people.
There is no such thing as black magick all magick is pure and balanced like nature. Its the heart of the human that can twist anything and make it sound evil through personal fears and ignorance.
So before you come down on my culture and the way I was raised I suggest you study up on Witchcraft.

This thread has been up for nearly 5 weeks. Nice to know you're on the ball...

The thread is all about how Spiritualism is NOT linked to witchcraft and black magic.
Indeed, Spiritualism, as it is concerned with ascending the spheres of light, is diametrically opposite to wicca/witchcraft which is an earthbound religion.

Had you bothered to read the thread in full you would have seen mention that it was part of a larger article, too large to post in full, and it only concerned those on the left hand path.

The magical force is neutral, but its use decides its 'colour' for want of a better expression. 'White' magic is healing, Service etc. 'Black' magic is materialistic, manipulative and hurtful.
'No such thing as black magic' How many times have I heard that?!! And then you dig a little deeper and find the person making the statement is up to all manner of grubby, sordid and malicious activities.
I believe in nailing your colours firmly to the mast. If you're not proud of what you're doing, why are 'you' doing it?!

Like I said, it only concerns those on the left-hand path. If you're a decent, honourable person then it doesn't refer to or concern you.

[Occultist]

Lucifarian's or those on the left handed path do not practise black magick either. Good to see you brought in another religion you know nothing about.
There is no color when it comes to magick there is only intent and purpose and even that does make it a color, where are you reading this on the back of a religious Christian track or a snapple lid?
There is far to many corrections that need to be made to all of your statements. Witchcraft has nothing to do with colors or left handed paths this stereo type has been coined by people who get there information about these type practises on TV shows like Charmed.
Good to see you are sticking to your guns though :)
You know us diabolical magick users if you need me I guess I will be having orgys with Satan and using cheap sigils and hexs like Peters cross and Solomons seal upside down.
PS: Like how you mentioned people on left handed paths are not decent or honorable was a perfect touch at the end though not suprising.

[Serenity Bear]

Maybe we need to put down what Spiritualism actually is because there seems to be a lot of confusion about these days, so Im going to put in the basic stuff:

Spiritualism (in the UK) is a recognised religion. Most Spiritualist here follow the 7 Principles which were channelled by Emma Hardinge Britian which are:

1. The Fatherhood of God
2. The Brotherhood of Man
3. The Communion of Spirits and the Ministry of Angels.
4. The continuous existence of the human soul.
5. Personal responsibility.
6. Compensation and retribution hereafter for all the good and evil deeds done on Earth.
7. Eternal progress open to every human soul.

We as Spiritualist believe those that in the Spirit World (Heaven) can communicate through certain people (mediums) messages to their loved ones. Thus this is an important part of our church services. We also believe those in Spirit can help/guide us through our lives. Like other religions we believe in healing and that some mediums/healers can send healing energy to us to allow our bodies to heal. We can not cure.

The religion began on 31 March 1848 with the Fox sisters communicating with Mr Splitfood at Hydesville New York State USA. They devised a A-Z knocking code which explained the man had been murdered and was hidden in the cellor of the house they were renting. The cellor was explored but he was not found but his bones were later located when the house was moved to Lilly Dale NY.

So you see it really has nothing at all with wicca, paganism, witchcraft, the dark arts, spells, charmed, or the like. We basically believe in the communcation with the dead.

Personally I believe the lack of knowledge by other religions has put Spiritualism in with the so called 'darker' ones. If you actually look at the 7 principles they are very much based on well known religions who certainly would not call themselves dark forces etc.

I have also found that even those in the Spiritualist circles are as confused with some Iv already mentioned not even knowing about the 7 principles and the like. It is those who are bringing a bad name to us by playing silly little games and trying to be mediums when they arent and thus it spreads a bad word. What is needed is better education and for our teaching establishments to be based on good practice with certified teachers. You wouldnt want anyone teaching your kids English who wasn't qualified so why should it be different for us!'

[knightofalbion]

Maybe we need to put down what Spiritualism actually is because there seems to be a lot of confusion about these days, so Im going to put in the basic stuff:

Spiritualism (in the UK) is a recognised religion. Most Spiritualist here follow the 7 Principles which were channelled by Emma Hardinge Britian which are:

1. The Fatherhood of God
2. The Brotherhood of Man
3. The Communion of Spirits and the Ministry of Angels.
4. The continuous existence of the human soul.
5. Personal responsibility.
6. Compensation and retribution hereafter for all the good and evil deeds done on Earth.
7. Eternal progress open to every human soul.

We as Spiritualist believe those that in the Spirit World (Heaven) can communicate through certain people (mediums) messages to their loved ones. Thus this is an important part of our church services. We also believe those in Spirit can help/guide us through our lives. Like other religions we believe in healing and that some mediums/healers can send healing energy to us to allow our bodies to heal. We can not cure.

The religion began on 31 March 1848 with the Fox sisters communicating with Mr Splitfood at Hydesville New York State USA. They devised a A-Z knocking code which explained the man had been murdered and was hidden in the cellor of the house they were renting. The cellor was explored but he was not found but his bones were later located when the house was moved to Lilly Dale NY.

So you see it really has nothing at all with wicca, paganism, witchcraft, the dark arts, spells, charmed, or the like. We basically believe in the communcation with the dead.

Personally I believe the lack of knowledge by other religions has put Spiritualism in with the so called 'darker' ones. If you actually look at the 7 principles they are very much based on well known religions who certainly would not call themselves dark forces etc.

I have also found that even those in the Spiritualist circles are as confused with some Iv already mentioned not even knowing about the 7 principles and the like. It is those who are bringing a bad name to us by playing silly little games and trying to be mediums when they arent and thus it spreads a bad word. What is needed is better education and for our teaching establishments to be based on good practice with certified teachers. You wouldnt want anyone teaching your kids English who wasn't qualified so why should it be different for us!'

An excellent post!

[knightofalbion]

You know us diabolical magick users if you need me I guess I will be having orgys with Satan and using cheap sigils and hexs like Peters cross and Solomons seal upside down.
PS: Like how you mentioned people on left handed paths are not decent or honorable was a perfect touch at the end though not suprising.

I think the term 'decent and honourable' must have a different defintion here in England to the one ascribed to it in Sioux City.

"I hex and cast spells, and do not obey the rede, I believe in intent and purpose and have even cursed in my life time"
- Occultist (Post 4, 'My ex-friend and black magic', Spirituality section.)

On the contrary it is you and people like you who besmirch and trigger prejudice against decent, genuine wiccans/pagans who do no harm to anyone.

It is exactly people like you that Peggy was referring to. You 'saw' yourself in her condemnation and that's why you got so het up.

[knightofalbion]

[QUOTE=Occultist]Lucifarian's or those on the left handed path do not practise black magick either. Good to see you brought in another religion you know nothing about.
There is no color when it comes to magick there is only intent and purpose and even that does make it a color, where are you reading this on the back of a religious Christian track or a snapple lid?
There is far to many corrections that need to be made to all of your statements. Witchcraft has nothing to do with colors or left handed paths this stereo type has been coined by people who get there information about these type practises on TV shows like Charmed.
[QUOTE]

By your own words you hex, curse and do not obey the rede ('harm none')
You deny black magic, in the aforementioned thread you even denied that there'd be any karmic comeback for what you do, and you didn't appear to have even heard of the Law of Reaction or the Law of Threefold Return!


"History alas, is full of characters who delighted in deliberate and diabolical doings. They do not change just because they shed the physical body in death. Freedom of choice remains - to sink lower still by continuing to indulge their evil practices, or eventually to sicken of their ghastly state and face the awful prospect of purging themselves, little by little, by suffering in themselves, what their victims have suffered, for they must become their own judges before they can rise"

- Peggy Mason, New Age Companion

We reap what we sow, no more and no less. Perfect justice.
All cruelty and evil must and will be transmuted.

[Occultist]

The rede was created by Gerald Gardner not by the ways of the Witch.
I keep far away from Wiccan's I wish to be separate from them because of people like you. I live in Sioux City but my people are originally from Cairo and then went to Scotland then America.
So technically you might say I am middle eastern decent not American but if I was American and from Sioux City what would that have to do with my beliefs or religious practices? I don't not believe in the rede nor practice it yes why is that so insulting to you?
Three fold is yet another Wiccan concept that people who practice the ways of old do not practice. What evil practices do I do that you do not agree with that I practice inside my home??
I am not a victim because I do not believe in a Hell I have morals because I choose to not because I fear a deity.
Wicca and the Rede and the rule of 3 was created in 1954 by Gerald Gardner and made Witches sound Kooky because people assumed Witches was Wiccans..

"The most authentic and hallowed Wiccan tradition is stealing from any source that didn't run away too fast"
-- Margot Adler, Wiccan author


I cast spells and Curses and Hex's if your confused on what they are look it up or a can clarify any other confusion you might have before insulting another religion and or belief system also enlighten me on why you think people who practise the Left handed path is so bad?.

Please understand I am not upset by you are your beliefs I am upset about your misinformation that your spreading.

Confucius says: Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star.

[norseman]

Time to put another point of view into the mix.
If you look up my postings under Wicca, you will see that I have little time for Gardner or his Wicca - it's just a pic-n-mix from a multitude of sources in terms of rituals and dogmas. The Rede is a nice fiction which is meaningless in real terms [and there are quite a few versions of it !] the LORE of the Three-Fold Return is a dressed-up version of fate,karma, etc which states that you are responsible for the consequences of your own actions. Or, as Christ is reputed to have said "Do as you would be done by." The bolted-on religion of Wicca is again just a composite, blending various Nature and Fertility cults together - nothing new there !
I do not like the word "Witchcraft" - more correct is "The Craft of the Witch". Even "witch" is dubious in my opinion being a christian word used to denigrate and justify persecutions throughout the christian era.
Gardner built this entire facade around a core of witchcraft and Gardner called his "new" faith, New Witchcraft. You need to put Gardner in the correct time frame. The last Witchcraft Laws had been repealed in Britain and Gardner was involved in a wide variety of mystic/esoteric groups, including being ordained as a priest in an obscure branch of the Celtic Church - just like Ross Nichols. These two worked together to found new organisations. Nichols founded the largest order of British Druids and Gardner founded Wicca. Together, they re-ordered the Festival Calender, base on old Druid and Agricultural calenders.
This emphasis on Black or Dark Magic is another nonsense - no such thing ! The darkness is in the heart of the individual, not the "magic" which is the manipulation of natural Earth energies and is neutral.
I follow a Crooked Path, the path of the Cunning Man which is milennia older than christianity, and is an Earth-accented path.
Personally, I have no strong feeling either way about Spiritualism, it's just another christian sect. My own path has always been involved with communing with ancestral spirits and the spirits of Nature, it's a common feature of many paths.
To end, I would add that there are more schisms in Wicca than you can shake a stick at, especially in the US. In the UK, the "old religion" is still very strong, especially in rural settings. Christianity has always been just a thin surface skin, which is now just another minority faith.

[Serenity Bear]

That is strange to say that Spiritualism is another Christian sect - most Spiritualist actually do not believe in Jesus, I don't!

As far as I know there is only 1 organisation in the UK that actually does (Christian Spiritualist). Does our 7 principles state anything about Jesus, nope it doesn't. God isn't Jesus, I know a lot believe he is but infact Jesus isn't, to be technical he is actually an Ascended Master as are numerous others such a Saint Germain, Lady Nada.

I'm not sure about Wicca being strong in rural settings of the UK, Druidism or even Paganism but I've never heard much about the Wicca except since Charmed came out. I live in a semi-rural area of the UK, and its pretty Christian based with no Wicca here, but plenty of Spiritualists and Buddhist. It may be different in places like Cornwall/Dorset as they have a lot of the ancient moments (Stonehenge, 9 rings, iron age forts).

Oh and the last witchcraft law was repealed in 1952 with the passing of the Fraudulent mediums act, which was later repealed in 2011 (I think) to the Trading Standards Act. The library will be able to advise you on the exact wording or contact the Houses of Parliament who will be able to send you a copy at a photocopying price. They also had the Vagrancy Act which they arrested people under, I think it was also repealed in 1952 for the FM Act, but I should imagine it would be rewritten for the present day.

[knightofalbion]

The point is whatever 'you' want to label yourself, whatever name you use, or try to slither out of calling what you do, you'll answer to spiritual Law.

Some people here seem to think they can go around hexing and cursing and perverting psychic forces for debased ends and there'll be no comeback!
If they don't want to listen to wisdom, so be it. A 'holiday' in the lower astral will soon set them straight.

Every cruel and evil act must and will be transmuted...

[knightofalbion]

The rede was created by Gerald Gardner not by the ways of the Witch.
I keep far away from Wiccan's I wish to be separate from them because of people like you. I live in Sioux City but my people are originally from Cairo and then went to Scotland then America.
So technically you might say I am middle eastern decent not American but if I was American and from Sioux City what would that have to do with my beliefs or religious practices? I don't not believe in the rede nor practice it yes why is that so insulting to you?
Three fold is yet another Wiccan concept that people who practice the ways of old do not practice. What evil practices do I do that you do not agree with that I practice inside my home??
I am not a victim because I do not believe in a Hell I have morals because I choose to not because I fear a deity.
Wicca and the Rede and the rule of 3 was created in 1954 by Gerald Gardner and made Witches sound Kooky because people assumed Witches was Wiccans..

"The most authentic and hallowed Wiccan tradition is stealing from any source that didn't run away too fast"
-- Margot Adler, Wiccan author


I cast spells and Curses and Hex's if your confused on what they are look it up or a can clarify any other confusion you might have before insulting another religion and or belief system also enlighten me on why you think people who practise the Left handed path is so bad?.

Please understand I am not upset by you are your beliefs I am upset about your misinformation that your spreading.

Confucius says: Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star.

And I have nothing against you, save what you do and stand for.

Do I need to explain it?! Hexing, cursing, harming - all born of hate and malice. It's not nice, it's not normal. To be frank it's sick and repulsive.
What sort of vibrations are you imbuing your soul with???? The soul can only operate to its vibrationary frequency.

One can deny spiritual law all one likes, but it can't be avoided....

[knightofalbion]

That is strange to say that Spiritualism is another Christian sect - most Spiritualist actually do not believe in Jesus, I don't!

As far as I know there is only 1 organisation in the UK that actually does (Christian Spiritualist). Does our 7 principles state anything about Jesus, nope it doesn't. God isn't Jesus, I know a lot believe he is but infact Jesus isn't, to be technical he is actually an Ascended Master as are numerous others such a Saint Germain, Lady Nada.

I'm not sure about Wicca being strong in rural settings of the UK, Druidism or even Paganism but I've never heard much about the Wicca except since Charmed came out. I live in a semi-rural area of the UK, and its pretty Christian based with no Wicca here, but plenty of Spiritualists and Buddhist. It may be different in places like Cornwall/Dorset as they have a lot of the ancient moments (Stonehenge, 9 rings, iron age forts).

Oh and the last witchcraft law was repealed in 1952 with the passing of the Fraudulent mediums act, which was later repealed in 2011 (I think) to the Trading Standards Act. The library will be able to advise you on the exact wording or contact the Houses of Parliament who will be able to send you a copy at a photocopying price. They also had the Vagrancy Act which they arrested people under, I think it was also repealed in 1952 for the FM Act, but I should imagine it would be rewritten for the present day.

Thank you for your posts, dear SB. A true Spiritualist!

The Seven Principles. A fine moral code. Though I rather feel they could do with updating (i.e. recognising the Duality of God, reveerence for all creation)

[norseman]

No, KoA. There is no such thing as Spiritual Law. We are each responsible for our own actions and the consequences of our own actions - we are our own judge and jury, there is no "Higher Court".

Serenity Bear - check what I said. I did not say that Wicca was strong in rural settings, the words used were "old religion" which some people call Witchcraft [ I call it something else ]

[knightofalbion]

[QUOTE=norseman]No, KoA. There is no such thing as Spiritual Law. We are each responsible for our own actions and the consequences of our own actions - we are our own judge and jury, there is no "Higher Court".
[QUOTE]

That IS spiritual Law!

[norseman]

[quote=norseman]No, KoA. There is no such thing as Spiritual Law. We are each responsible for our own actions and the consequences of our own actions - we are our own judge and jury, there is no "Higher Court".
[quote]

That IS spiritual Law!

I agree it is natural spiritual law but not Spiritual Law [as in religious edict].
The word "law" is a sticking point, it is more like a code of personal ethics.

[knightofalbion]

I agree it is natural spiritual law but not Spiritual Law [as in religious edict].
The word "law" is a sticking point, it is more like a code of personal ethics.

It is a universal and cosmic law which transcends all religions and faiths.

All people are governed by spiritual Law.

It is not a code. A code is voluntary. Cause and Effect, the Law of Karma, call it what you will, is very definitely not voluntary!
And until one grasps the Law of Love, one's soul won't be climbing very far up the spheres of light.

[Serenity Bear]

So very true, I totally agree with you. There are a lot out there, that believe because they go to church every Sunday or pray every day that, that gives them permission to do anything during the rest of the day.

I agree with the lower level astral plans, some are more 'pleasant' then others for a quick trip but they aren't place you would want to live.

[norseman]

[quote=Serenity Bear]So very true, I totally agree with you. There are a lot out there, that believe because they go to church every Sunday or pray every day that, that gives them permission to do anything during the rest of the day.]

:D This is because christians think they have a "Get out of jail card". Six days off, then confession on the seventh and everything is reset to start the whole cycle again.

[Occultist]

And I have nothing against you, save what you do and stand for.

Do I need to explain it?! Hexing, cursing, harming - all born of hate and malice. It's not nice, it's not normal. To be frank it's sick and repulsive.
What sort of vibrations are you imbuing your soul with???? The soul can only operate to its vibrationary frequency.

One can deny spiritual law all one likes, but it can't be avoided....
Yes you need to explain what a Hex is so I understand what type of hate and ignorance you have been taught and also the definition of curses.
My entire house is hexed and every item in it. Every living thing that plays in my yard is hexed all my pets are hexed. Also your idea of a soul is very Christian and or Ignorant I cannot tell that either until you explain.
I do nothing that is born of hate. Even my curses is not born of hate.
Also if I curse a person or Hex a person if they do no harm to my family or me there Golden:smile: also when did I say I harm people or create malice? Also please give me your definition of normal and point out a "Normal person" to me please.

I can and do deny your spiritual law because it was invented by a hippy in 1954 and has nothing to do with the Craft.

To be honest you are sounding like a Christian that has gone rogue and knows nothing about the Occult practised also please define the Left handed path.
You have so far answerd none of my questions you just are spreading more ignorance and your personal agenda.

The only normal people are the one's you don't know very well.
Alfred Adler

[knightofalbion]

Yes you need to explain what a Hex is so I understand what type of hate and ignorance you have been taught and also the definition of curses.
My entire house is hexed and every item in it. Every living thing that plays in my yard is hexed all my pets are hexed. Also your idea of a soul is very Christian and or Ignorant I cannot tell that either until you explain.
I do nothing that is born of hate. Even my curses is not born of hate.
Also if I curse a person or Hex a person if they do no harm to my family or me there Golden:smile: also when did I say I harm people or create malice? Also please give me your definition of normal and point out a "Normal person" to me please.

I can and do deny your spiritual law because it was invented by a hippy in 1954 and has nothing to do with the Craft.

To be honest you are sounding like a Christian that has gone rogue and knows nothing about the Occult practised also please define the Left handed path.
You have so far answerd none of my questions you just are spreading more ignorance and your personal agenda.

The only normal people are the one's you don't know very well.
Alfred Adler

"Spiritual law was invented by a hippy in 1954...."

The SF quote of the year!

[knightofalbion]

Yes you need to explain what a Hex is so I understand what type of hate and ignorance you have been taught and also the definition of curses.
My entire house is hexed and every item in it. Every living thing that plays in my yard is hexed all my pets are hexed. Also your idea of a soul is very Christian and or Ignorant I cannot tell that either until you explain.
I do nothing that is born of hate. Even my curses is not born of hate.
Also if I curse a person or Hex a person if they do no harm to my family or me there Golden:smile: also when did I say I harm people or create malice? Also please give me your definition of normal and point out a "Normal person" to me please.

I can and do deny your spiritual law because it was invented by a hippy in 1954 and has nothing to do with the Craft.

To be honest you are sounding like a Christian that has gone rogue and knows nothing about the Occult practised also please define the Left handed path.
You have so far answerd none of my questions you just are spreading more ignorance and your personal agenda.

The only normal people are the one's you don't know very well.
Alfred Adler

Explain? If you need it explaining, there'd be no point in explaining.
Anyway, there is no need for explanation, you know what you do.

Rede? It was you who quoted and mentioned the Rede.
In any case, my Law is spiritual Law, not the law of the Wiccans.

You preach to me of 'ignorance'...from waist deep in the mire!

You sneer at and dismiss wise counsel. So be it, carry on with your hexes and curses and your deeds of harm and see where it takes you.

[Occultist]

Gerald Gardner invented these theories they are theories not facts.
Gerald Gardner has nothing to do with Witchcraft and yes he was a free thinking aka a hippy why is that an insult?
Also you havent answerd any of my questions so here I will ask again.

1. In your personal definition what is a Hex?
2. In your personal definition what is a Curse?
3. Describe the Left handed path to me in your own words.
4. Describe the ways of the Witch-not Wicca in your own words.
5. Are you in a Coven or Solitary practitioner and how long have you been practising the Religion called Wicca not Witchcraft.
6. Describe to me your thoughts on Witchcraft before 1954 and Gerald Gardner.
6. Do you believe in a Hell type place where "souls" are punished?
7. was you a Christian before converting?
8. Explain this black magic.
9. You use the term Paganism or Pagans so describe to me what you believe they are.
10. Please discribe why my quote was the best you heard this year?
11. Why does my state of origin have anything to do with my practises?
This is just a few and please dont make me laugh by looking up the answers on Wiki just answer them with your own personal knowledge.
12.Gerald Gardner has nothing to do with Witchcraft and yes he was a free thinking aka a hippy why is that an insult?
Thank you

Also peoples beliefs especially Wicca is a religion Witchcraft is not, its a culture and belief system from long ago.
So you are standing trying to be king of the mountain declairing Wicca is a better Religion then Witchcraft when Witchcraft has nothing to do with religion in fact many of us evil Witches doesnt even believe in a Deity.
Also point out to me where Wise counsel is? I know exactly where my beliefs has gotten me dear. I am very blessed.

[norseman]

Calling a spade a spade, in my opinion Gardner was a plagiarist who dabbled in every esoteric cult going, an Eastern and Western blend of closed orders, oriental religions, and mystical christianity. There is nothing original in Wicca.
There is a small core of craft added to impart a certain mystique, likewise with the initiatory coven to add exclusivity despite his initial avowed intention to open up New Witchcraft [his description] to a wider "audience".

Interesting site http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/thetruthaboutwicca/geraldgardner.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelfire.com%2Fwi 2%2Fthetruthaboutwicca%2Fgeraldgardner.html)
Many falsehoods exposed, doubtlessly exaggerated but I have an inside track which states similar claims.

[Toolite]

[QUOTE=norseman]No, KoA. There is no such thing as Spiritual Law. We are each responsible for our own actions and the consequences of our own actions - we are our own judge and jury, there is no "Higher Court".

I feel confident that is true.. the statement about we will judge ourself first. we do judge ourself thats why many walk the earth in spirit. and once you cross I believe you will stand before God accountable for the good and bad

I just thought it was interesting that you made the statement there is no such thing as spiritual law. There are Spiritual rules that are in place and has always been in place.. Ones man can not change or make a deal with. I consider the fact that we never die spiritually to be a spiritual rule. When a person passes away in flesh the light opening for them to cross.. I would consider a spiritual rule. Which there are many and you dont have to be a believer...certain things will take place whether you believe or not.. wouldnt we consider these to be Spiritual Law?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[norseman]

I suppose, Toolite, that it depends on your core beliefs. Mine, I think, are more basic, more primitive than yours. Put in my simple terms, your deity[ies] appear to be Sky Gods [to use an old description] while mine are of this Earth. When we cross the veil to the Spirit World, there is no judgement apart from self judgement. Then, at some time, the spirit is re-incarnated or chooses to join the Life Essence of Gaia as a Spirit of Nature. Obviously, this is a gross simplification :D. An important part of my path is Striding the Veil [in spirit] to commune with the ancestors.

[Serenity Bear]

We as ourselves here are the life self when we return to the Spirit world we become our true higher self and thus we can look back at our lives and see how we have effected others in good and bads ways. It is that higher self that judges the life. Once this is done those in the higher realms may come into play to help that soul pay retribution for the good and evil done here on earth.

There are Spiritual laws just like there are here (ie Newtons law of gravity) which cannot be changed, whether you like it or not they exist. They are things like 'what you give out you get back' and one of the the primaries 'ask and guidance will be received' (you need to be very specific for this one) and so on.

I wont discuss them all here, because that would break one of the primary laws (you aren't given things you wont understand because of your ascension level, so unless you are at a level to understand it they wont give it to you).

[knightofalbion]

Exactly, the Universe and everyone & everything in it are governed by spiritual Law.

Cause and Effect: It is an entirely self-regulating law. We reap what we sow, no more, no less.
We all have freewill to do good or evil. If 'you' decide to work evil, like our friend here, you will have to pay the price. All evil and cruelty will have to be transmuted. Suffering can only be requited by suffering.
Shout it from the rooftops.

Sir Edwin Arnold wrote a most striking and unsurpassed exposition of the Law of Karma in his magnum opus 'The Light of Asia', which was based upon a work in the Pali Canon, Lalitavistara, a biograpphy of Gautama Buddha.
(Two sample verses)

'Who toiled a slave may come anew a Prince
For gentle worthiness and merit won;
Who ruled a King may wander earth in rags
For things done and undone'

'Ye suffer from yourselves. None else compels,
None other holds that ye live and die,
And whirl upon the Wheel, and hug and kiss
Its spokes of agony'

[Occultist]

Thank you Toolite and Norseman but as you can clearly see your comments has fallen on deaf ears and he still has not answerd any of my questions.
I am thinking he might be just trying to stir the pot. Crossing the viel are the hedge is my belief also Norse you know that. There is no judge and jury no spiritual rules. Many Gardenarians cling to this confusion and when asked questions just ignore them to be honest making all the Gardenarians in a bad light. This is what frusterates me to no end with Gerald Gardner is that people have no clue of the Old ways and thru his teachings in a away cause people can twist anything we are evil and his way is pure.
For that to me it another form of a religion that spreads misinformation and hate. Not all of them for there is balance in everything but some use it as a sword.

[norseman]

"wont discuss them all here, because that would break one of the primary laws (you aren't given things you wont understand because of your ascension level, so unless you are at a level to understand it they wont give it to you)"

You are comical ! But feigning higher knowledge to dodge explaining yourself just will not wash ! This universe is completely neutral, one could say amoral. To assign human conceived laws to it is supreme arrogance.

"We all have freewill to do good or evil."
Good and evil are highly subjective terms determined from a human point of view, they are no absolutes. Most "good" actions have "evil" consequences, just as most "evil" actions have "good" consequences. Ultimately, an action which is 51% Good and only 49% evil will be seen as Good from someone's POV.
Let me give some examples. One thing I am involved in is protection of the native red squirrel and eradication of the grey. Good or Evil ? Another thing is the re-establishment of raptors in the skies of Britain i.e. killers. Good or Evil ?

[Serenity Bear]

Ok lets talk a bit of spiritual law shall we:

1. What you give out you get back - now that is all about ions, atoms etc so unless you have scientific knowledge you wont understand that. Oh I can say its energy but do you understand how an energy vampire will grab the aura and pierce it with their own to gain knowledge and draw the person so far down they can dip into depression. But do you also understand how the energy vampire will be punsihed by that same energy

2. Your ascension will reflect that which you arrive when you come to the Spirit World. Do you understand how the ions and atoms etc of the body can reflect that of the place you live in, and even the time you live in, and how that can reflect into this life and how you act.

3. Do you understand how the colour rays, the xrays, gamma rays leads to the Spiritual world if the human brain could think of the equipment to get there?

3. Do you understand how with this equipment one could cross centuries in time, space and be in Mars in the blink of an eye?

Oh the list is endless. Just because the medium types the words doesn't mean its the mediums words being typed. Confused yet!

With ascension all the above answers are very clear, without it you will thing they are daft etc. It's very much like the human being thinking the world was flat until someone said it was round. It's all to do with thinking outside the box and spiritual ascension.

Let me put it in simple terms most will understand, those who enroll in their first year of medical school to be a Dr will have a limited knowledge compared to a Brain Surgeon, or Hospital Registrar.

PS: Grey and red squirrels - that is natures law of the fittest and a direct result of the human beings continued meddling.

PPS: It has nothing to do with consequence it is all about true intention of the person. Some people say they have others in mind when doing things but their intention is to be cruel, manipulative, victimising and controlling. It is all about intention and thus it will be judged, there is no hiding from Spirit or your Higher Self.

[Occultist]

Your mixing science and faith again.
There is no higher law there is Ions and Atoms has nothing to do with the old ways and Craft or even Gerald Gardners belief. I know Energy Vampires who actually dedicate there life on healing.
No I am not confused it just sounds like a nice theory for you to believe in.
But it just isnt Witchcraft sorry maybe knightofalbion might buy it though.
Also I would like to point out Cunning and Witches or Hedge walkers find it there obligation to keep the balance of nature so if Norse believes in more red squirrels mote it be.
Mediums are completly different then Witches so is Energy Vampires.
But again sorry there is no spiritual law. Only spiritual law there is are the ones we create in our mind. I believe some people need to believe in spiritual law or a higher deity because they would be over whelmed knowing destiny is in our own hands and there is no deity to scold them and destroy there enemy's or turn someone they dont like into a dung beetle in the after life.
This concept like Norsey was saying maybe one of those that everyone cannot grasp. They need training wheels.
There is also no reason to compare Witchcraft to Spiritualism to begin with.
Its like compairing a Orange to a Christian.
That was knightofalbion 1st mistake.

[norseman]

"now that is all about ions, atoms etc so unless you have scientific knowledge you wont understand that"

Honours degree in Science + Masters degree. Good enough for you ?

"do you understand how an energy vampire will grab the aura and pierce it with their own to gain knowledge and draw the person so far down they can dip into depression."

And from there you descend into New Age drivel !

[Serenity Bear]

No it is not, it is all included in what a Medium would need to know when they contact Spirit. Spiritualism and Mediumship is based on Science, yes it isn't able to be qualified under experimental factors because it is vertually impossible for a Medium to repeat a sitting 100 times straight and get 100 accuracy which is needed. There are those that are using Science to experiment with our current mediums such as Gordon Smith, Glyn Edwards and the like.

A lot of mediumship is connected with the use of the bodies and the Spirits energies through the chakras/auras and to link to the recipient and the Spirit world. It is basically all to do with electricity as well you know that can be Scientifically proven.

Since this is a Spiritualist thread, and your talking about Paganism, Wicca, Witchcraft which has nothing to do with Spiritualism then I have every right to put in some so called 'New Age' Drivel. By the way the Chakras actually date back to the first tribes that settled on the White Nile in Egypt before the Pharoahs exsisted - pretty new then - NOPE.

If you want to argue the point of Paganism, Wicca and Witchcraft and Hexes then take it to your own section and stop associating my/our religion with it. Spiritualism has nothing in common with these other religions and we don't like people who think it has.

PS The Society of Psychical Research, Edinburgh/Cambridge Universities have/are running testing on Spiritualist Mediums.

[norseman]

When you use an adversarial thread title, you can expect an adversarial response. Still, I will leave you in peace now. :D

[Occultist]

Mediums is based on belief not science. If you can scientifically prove you are in fact a medium please go to http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html there is 1,million dollars waiting for you.

[knightofalbion]

Mediums is based on belief not science. If you can scientifically prove you are in fact a medium please go to http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html there is 1,million dollars waiting for you.

Strange you should resort to Mr Randi. Still if you think he's right about mediums, he's right about witchcraft too
http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/witchcraft.html

[knightofalbion]

Mediums is based on belief not science. If you can scientifically prove you are in fact a medium please go to http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html there is 1,million dollars waiting for you.

http://www.victorzammit.com

[Occultist]

Amazing Randi is clear that he has very common misconceptions and weave witchcraft Satanism and wicca into one religion like you do.
He also is confused about all but that still doesn't diminish the fact there is a 1 million dollar check waiting for you.

[knightofalbion]

1) Amazing Randi is clear that he has very common misconceptions and weave witchcraft Satanism and wicca into one religion like you do.

2)He also is confused about all but that still doesn't diminish the fact there is a 1 million dollar check waiting for you.

1) I can think of a few words, but "amazing" isn't one of them.

You brought him into the thread, I didn't. You can't hold someone up as an authority and then turn round and say he isn't an authority.

I never linked Wicca with Satanism. I linked LHP witchcraft with black magic, as it is. One and the same.

What I said was that it's people like you who, as you have publicly stated, cast hexes, curses and disobey the rede ('harm none') besmirch and trigger persecution and prejudice against decent, genuine Wiccans and pagans who do no harm to anyone.

2) Had you bothered to read the Victor Zammit website you'll see all about the charming Mr Randi and why he hasn't paid out and will never pay out.
There is also a million dollar cheque waiting for Mr Randi, offered by Mr Zammit. For all his mouthing off, he can't provide the evidence, or any evidence at all, to claim it.

[Serenity Bear]

I am going to ask the MODs to close this thread.

Randi - well what mediums think about him is not printable.

[knightofalbion]

Mr Randi is anti-everything spiritual and psychic!

Countless communications from the Other Side, not to mention the thousands and thousands of NDEs, which broadly agree on everything, despite age, faith and cultural differences, verify and substantiate the Spiritualism message.

[Toolite]

I suppose, Toolite, that it depends on your core beliefs. Mine, I think, are more basic, more primitive than yours. Put in my simple terms, your deity[ies] appear to be Sky Gods [to use an old description] while mine are of this Earth. When we cross the veil to the Spirit World, there is no judgement apart from self judgement. Then, at some time, the spirit is re-incarnated or chooses to join the Life Essence of Gaia as a Spirit of Nature. Obviously, this is a gross simplification :D. An important part of my path is Striding the Veil [in spirit] to commune with the ancestors.


although I grew up in religion I will generally speak from experience (premonitions, visions and dreams or just knowing/being told by Spirit).

I dont doubt that individuals have a piece of the picture as I have a piece. What type of souls/and or spirits do you communicate with?

Can briefly explain Life essence of Gaia?

Do you believe that everyone returns to Life Essence of Gaia no matter what they have done in life?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[Toolite]

That is strange to say that Spiritualism is another Christian sect - most Spiritualist actually do not believe in Jesus, I don't!

As far as I know there is only 1 organisation in the UK that actually does (Christian Spiritualist). Does our 7 principles state anything about Jesus, nope it doesn't. God isn't Jesus, I know a lot believe he is but infact Jesus isn't, to be technical he is actually an Ascended Master as are numerous others such a Saint Germain, Lady Nada.

I'm not sure about Wicca being strong in rural settings of the UK, Druidism or even Paganism but I've never heard much about the Wicca except since Charmed came out. I live in a semi-rural area of the UK, and its pretty Christian based with no Wicca here, but plenty of Spiritualists and Buddhist. It may be different in places like Cornwall/Dorset as they have a lot of the ancient moments (Stonehenge, 9 rings, iron age forts).

Oh and the last witchcraft law was repealed in 1952 with the passing of the Fraudulent mediums act, which was later repealed in 2011 (I think) to the Trading Standards Act. The library will be able to advise you on the exact wording or contact the Houses of Parliament who will be able to send you a copy at a photocopying price. They also had the Vagrancy Act which they arrested people under, I think it was also repealed in 1952 for the FM Act, but I should imagine it would be rewritten for the present day.


This was interesting and informative for me. thanks.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[norseman]

although I grew up in religion I will generally speak from experience (premonitions, visions and dreams or just knowing/being told by Spirit).

I dont doubt that individuals have a piece of the picture as I have a piece. What type of souls/and or spirits do you communicate with?

Can briefly explain Life essence of Gaia?

Do you believe that everyone returns to Life Essence of Gaia no matter what they have done in life?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!
Life Essence of Gaia - the life force of the entire biomass of the planet -animal, vegetable, and mineral.
I do not see Gaia as either benign or malign, just perfectly neutral, amoral. Her [seems only right to use the feminine since She gave birth to us all] priorities are to the entirety of Life on the planet, of which we are just a small part. Her time frame is billions of years and by comparison mankind is here today and gone tomorrow. So, the Laws of Conservation will apply to both our physical and spiritual bodies.
I am a Hedge Rider/Veil Strider, whichever you prefer, and use places of power or portals to seek advice from the spirits of Nature/Ancestral Spirits [Ancestral in the sense of our species, not familial] . I see myself joining them in the next turn of the Wheel rather than being re-incarnated again.
The Path is thousands of years old from Neolithic tribal shaman to Cunning Folk to Hedge Witches, adapting old ways of working to modern life. [ :D 1000 years back I would bless your oxen, now I would bless your combine harvester]
Think of us as Green Fundamentalists :smile:

[Toolite]

Life Essence of Gaia - the life force of the entire biomass of the planet -animal, vegetable, and mineral.
I do not see Gaia as either benign or malign, just perfectly neutral, amoral. Her [seems only right to use the feminine since She gave birth to us all] priorities are to the entirety of Life on the planet, of which we are just a small part. Her time frame is billions of years and by comparison mankind is here today and gone tomorrow. So, the Laws of Conservation will apply to both our physical and spiritual bodies.
I am a Hedge Rider/Veil Strider, whichever you prefer, and use places of power or portals to seek advice from the spirits of Nature/Ancestral Spirits [Ancestral in the sense of our species, not familial] . I see myself joining them in the next turn of the Wheel rather than being re-incarnated again.
The Path is thousands of years old from Neolithic tribal shaman to Cunning Folk to Hedge Witches, adapting old ways of working to modern life. [ :D 1000 years back I would bless your oxen, now I would bless your combine harvester]
Think of us as Green Fundamentalists :smile:

What lets you know that you reached a place of power or a portal? Do change dimensions?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[Toolite]

Life Essence of Gaia - the life force of the entire biomass of the planet -animal, vegetable, and mineral.
I do not see Gaia as either benign or malign, just perfectly neutral, amoral. Her [seems only right to use the feminine since She gave birth to us all] priorities are to the entirety of Life on the planet, of which we are just a small part. Her time frame is billions of years and by comparison mankind is here today and gone tomorrow. So, the Laws of Conservation will apply to both our physical and spiritual bodies.
I am a Hedge Rider/Veil Strider, whichever you prefer, and use places of power or portals to seek advice from the spirits of Nature/Ancestral Spirits [Ancestral in the sense of our species, not familial] . I see myself joining them in the next turn of the Wheel rather than being re-incarnated again.
The Path is thousands of years old from Neolithic tribal shaman to Cunning Folk to Hedge Witches, adapting old ways of working to modern life. [ :D 1000 years back I would bless your oxen, now I would bless your combine harvester]
Think of us as Green Fundamentalists :smile:

If its not too much of a personal question. What type of information do you ask for from the Ascended Masters?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[norseman]

If its not too much of a personal question. What type of information do you ask for from the Ascended Masters?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!
Different cosmology :D My model sees Three Realms of Being. Firstly, The Heavens - home of the Sky Gods and Ascended Beings. A state that we should strive for, rarely achieve but the striving is as important as the achieving. Middle Earth - our physical realm, our home that we were given to care for [and making a hash of that !]. Finally, Underworld - the Spirit World. The place of rest for spirits between incarnations and cared for by the Dark Aspect of the Lord - nothing like the christian hell, this is not a place of judgement and punishment but a place of rest and care.

So, the spirits I commune with are not Ascended Masters but rather The Elders. My questions tend to be concerned with how best to help the Earth, things like where to plant my acorns, how to bring blessings to trees under threat, how to help preserve species under threat [ Red Squirrels for example ] but mostly acting as an agent of Gaia in places of beauty to preserve them for future generations. Greens with soil under our fingernails :D

This gives a fuller picture http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4753

[Occultist]

I disobey something I dont believe in the Rede like most Witches. Wicca has nothing to do with witchcraft and you are yet to answer any of my questions

[knightofalbion]

I disobey something I dont believe in the Rede like most Witches. Wicca has nothing to do with witchcraft and you are yet to answer any of my questions

You mention the Rede and thereby give it credence, then when you're compromised, you deny it.
You mention Randi, and thereby give him credence, then when you're compromised, you deny him.
If you don't believe in something, why mention it?

As for not answering your questions. Oh yes! I remember "Was you a Christian?", "Spiritual law was invented by a hippy in 1954" etc. etc. I really can't think why I didn't spend any of my precious time responding...

For the record, as your soul brother Norseman, has already told you, the Rede is simply a variation on the Law of Cause and Effect. Every religion has their own variation of this eternal spiritual law. The Christians have their 'As you sow, so shall you reap', the Buddhists have their Karma etc.etc.
(Using that example Gautama Buddha was teaching his 'karma' back in the 5th century B.C. Quite a bit earlier than 1954...)

[Occultist]

No I give it credence to those who need to cling to it.
It has nothing to do with Witchcraft.
Also no you have answered none of my questions that leads me to believe you are confused and yes my "brother" can speak for himself. Also just because he is a teacher doesnt mean we see everything eye to eye. There is no rede or laws but the ones you manifest that you need. if you remove your training wheels and answer the questions without more questions I could see more clearly of what you intentions are. To me as probably others you seem very confused. I have no problem with that but when you spread ignorance and lies and you have no clue onto what a hex is and believe it is to harm makes you laughable. So just be prepared to pull your big boy pants up and stand your grown by answering questions if not go in peace.

[Toolite]

Different cosmology :D My model sees Three Realms of Being. Firstly, The Heavens - home of the Sky Gods and Ascended Beings. A state that we should strive for, rarely achieve but the striving is as important as the achieving. Middle Earth - our physical realm, our home that we were given to care for [and making a hash of that !]. Finally, Underworld - the Spirit World. The place of rest for spirits between incarnations and cared for by the Dark Aspect of the Lord - nothing like the christian hell, this is not a place of judgement and punishment but a place of rest and care.

So, the spirits I commune with are not Ascended Masters but rather The Elders. My questions tend to be concerned with how best to help the Earth, things like where to plant my acorns, how to bring blessings to trees under threat, how to help preserve species under threat [ Red Squirrels for example ] but mostly acting as an agent of Gaia in places of beauty to preserve them for future generations. Greens with soil under our fingernails :D

This gives a fuller picture http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4753

ok.. I have a couple of questions.. you said prior that you dont believe in Gods or deity but, you mentioned that 1st realm consist of Sky Gods? Why did you say that?

You provided the break down but, where or what level of the realm does the Elders reside in?

What lets you know that you reached a place of power or a portal? Do change dimensions?

That sounds interesting regarding saving the earth as long as the animals isnt a metaphor for people..lol.

importantly, i've heard another mention on this forum that the lower realm is a place of rest and you say it too.. what is this based on or how do you draw this conclusion?

Is Gaia the same as saying the universe? Like I will say Heaven but, I feel Heaven is broken down by dimensions/levels.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[norseman]

:D Toolite, I feel an essay coming on :D

Got hospital stuff today so will post tomorrow. :smile:

By way of a tease/taster - Places of Power/Portals - "places between places, and times between times" :D. Natural features of the land, not created by man.

[knightofalbion]

No I give it credence to those who need to cling to it.
It has nothing to do with Witchcraft.
Also no you have answered none of my questions that leads me to believe you are confused and yes my "brother" can speak for himself. Also just because he is a teacher doesnt mean we see everything eye to eye. There is no rede or laws but the ones you manifest that you need. if you remove your training wheels and answer the questions without more questions I could see more clearly of what you intentions are. To me as probably others you seem very confused. I have no problem with that but when you spread ignorance and lies and ...

you have no clue onto what a hex is and believe it is to harm makes you laughable. So just be prepared to pull your big boy pants up and stand your grown by answering questions if not go in peace.

The fact that you have to sink to such childish behaviour only underlines the weakness of your argument.

Definition of to HEX someone (From the Psychic World encyclopaedia) (Written by a witch)

'To hex a person means to inflict evil upon them by magic or witchcraft and is a word in common usage in the American language. It is very similar to the practice of the evil eye'

Definition of to HEX someone (from the Cambridge University Online Dictionary)
'An evil spell, bring bad luck and trouble'

[Occultist]

Umm your ignorance is showing.
http://handmadephilly.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/hexpage.jpg
These are Dutch Hex signs and Hex signs can be used to ward off anything or attract positivity. Its like a Magnet use it one way to ward and another to attract. My Hex signs are more of celtic region I also asked if you would tell me in your own opinion what a Hex was and not to paste and copy.
The Word Hex origins is German and from the word Hexe or Hexen meaning "A Witch". No evil spell or anything or any of the misinformation you discribed. now explain Curse you may paste and Copy if you must.

[knightofalbion]

Do you not understand the difference between a noun and a verb?????

'I hex and cast spells and do not obey the rede (harm none) I believe in intent and purpose and have even cursed in my lifetime".

There are dozens of online dictionaries, take your pick, post a link for hex/to hex someone...

[goldentimes]

I think this is wrong to judge and part from that witchcraft is not a religion but rather It's what we do-witches and wiccans; Paganism and wiccan is a religion.
Nor is spiritualism-Spiritualism is what you believe in. ie a person who likes and reads tarot cards may have spiritual belief in them, but may/may not go to church and has nothing to do with witchcraft. A church person may do a religious ritual/spells but do not have anything to do with pagans, wiccans or witches.

Having light and dark has nothing to do with it, as all religions have their own laws and giuldlines.

So I do not think you could do S. V W.-bad form!

Best Regards & Blessings!

[knightofalbion]

I think this is wrong to judge and part from that witchcraft is not a religion but rather It's what we do-witches and wiccans; Paganism and wiccan is a religion.
Nor is spiritualism-Spiritualism is what you believe in. ie a person who likes and reads tarot cards may have spiritual belief in them, but may/may not go to church and has nothing to do with witchcraft. A church person may do a religious ritual/spells but do not have anything to do with pagans, wiccans or witches.

Having light and dark has nothing to do with it, as all religions have their own laws and giuldlines.

So I do not think you could do S. V W.-bad form!

Best Regards & Blessings!

if you read the full thread, you'll see that the original piece is all about how Spiritualism is NOT linked to witchcraft, as ignorant people do often link the two.

Indeed, they are diametrically opposed to each other as Spiritualism is concerned with ascending the spheres of light, whereas wicca/paganism are earthbound religions.

We have freewill to do good or evil, yes, but all is subject to spiritual law* whatever religion you do or do not follow (*i.e. Cause and effect/karma/reaping what we sow etc.)

[knightofalbion]

Umm your ignorance is showing.
http://handmadephilly.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/hexpage.jpg
.

IFor the record, to hex someone is nothing to do with a 'hex sign'. That's Dutch folk art and very pretty it is too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_sign

And it's nothing to do with witchcraft either. How could it, they're Lutheran Christians.

[Occultist]

Hex is a sign or Sigil that can be used on a person place or thing to do whatever the Witch intends, For instance my car is hexed my clothes is hexed my animals are hexed ever item in my house is hexed every flower herb or veggy in my garden is hexed and my land is hexed. Do harm to any of my things and youll see 1st hand what a Hex can do. Do anything good to my land and positivity will follow. I did this Hex because my neighbor came onto my property and killed a mole that was in my yard. I hexed my yard with symbols and my own blood and intent and purpose.
again your ignorance is showing and you know nothing about hexing or hex's internets has taught you well young Jedi.
Now as for Dutch Hex's those are positive. People put these type of hex's on barns and front doors and anythinn else they choose and yes the Dutch has many Witches/Hexen there magick is called "“hex” or “hexerei.” or Pow-wow magick.
Wikipedia is a awesome place to find out correct information also might add.

[LadyTerra]

I have just read this entire thread and all I can say is, "WOW"!

The opening was taken out of context (as was stated by the person who started the thread) and here we are (yet again) in a verbal war over semantics.

When will we learn that words are POWERFUL and can have many different meanings?

What means one thing to one person--may mean something entirely different to another.

I have read all of your beliefs (as posted here) and can identify w/ many of which I (personally) practice in my Tradition (to one degree--or another).

I believe in Transcendence.

I communicate w/ the Others (those who exist primarily beyond the Veil).

I perform Ritualistic Magick.

I observe an Earth-based Religion that honors eight Sabbats of the Wheel-of-the-Year.

I worship and serve my recognized version of a Three-fold Goddess.

I recognize and honor my version of a Three-fold God.

I honor and invoke my version of the Guardians of the Elements and of Balance.

I honor and receive guidance from my AnimalSpiritGuides.

I meditate and use affirmations.

I divine messages and help others to seek Spiritual Guidance.

I am legally ordained.

I am a certified natural health consultant and teach others how to use the Gifts of MotherEarth and the UniversalSpirit to heal themselves and others.

I call upon the Divine and the Guardians to aid in reflecting the meddlesome magick and ill-intensions of misguided people back to them.

I believe that when we participate in positive energy we get back times 3 and for negative energy we get back times 10 and that is possible to do good for the majority of our adult lives and never finish paying for the misguided deeds of our youth--for this is my personal experience.

Now--I wonder--how would any of you label me and my path?

Peace and Love on the paths of your choice...

Blessed be...

[Occultist]

That was beautiful Lady-Terra as you know I often agree with your post's.
I feel spiritualism vs witchcraft and the assumptions that were made for people who do not believe in spiritual karmic justice in a Wicca way was attacked at it very source including people who practice the left handed path.
I see all sides and I also see the reasoning people believe in a 3fold 10fold justice. But I also believe those who do not are not "Black Magick" users because I believe no magick is one sided nor one colored.
I believe that is more of a new age type belief system that was never practised in traditional witchcraft. I also dont believe all spiritualist share the same belief as the OP either. I do believe your practise and belief is a balance and weave between old and new and its beautiful and refreshing to see that balance.
You are also correct that people use words for different things but to say all Magick Hex's are bad and not have really studied the origins is not cool either.
I asked the OP all of 12 questions to see his thoughts on things and beliefs and he has not really answerd any. Thats his choice but I am trying to really understand why he thinks someone who doesnt practise a rede or spiritual law is so bad.

[knightofalbion]

I have just read this entire thread and all I can say is, "WOW"!

The opening was taken out of context (as was stated by the person who started the thread) and here we are (yet again) in a verbal war over semantics.

When will we learn that words are POWERFUL and can have many different meanings?

What means one thing to one person--may mean something entirely different to another.

I have read all of your beliefs (as posted here) and can identify w/ many of which I (personally) practice in my Tradition (to one degree--or another).

I believe in Transcendence.

I communicate w/ the Others (those who exist primarily beyond the Veil).

I perform Ritualistic Magick.

I observe an Earth-based Religion that honors eight Sabbats of the Wheel-of-the-Year.

I worship and serve my recognized version of a Three-fold Goddess.

I recognize and honor my version of a Three-fold God.

I honor and invoke my version of the Guardians of the Elements and of Balance.

I honor and receive guidance from my AnimalSpiritGuides.

I meditate and use affirmations.

I divine messages and help others to seek Spiritual Guidance.

I am legally ordained.

I am a certified natural health consultant and teach others how to use the Gifts of MotherEarth and the UniversalSpirit to heal themselves and others.

I call upon the Divine and the Guardians to aid in reflecting the meddlesome magick and ill-intensions of misguided people back to them.

I believe that when we participate in positive energy we get back times 3 and for negative energy we get back times 10 and that is possible to do good for the majority of our adult lives and never finish paying for the misguided deeds of our youth--for this is my personal experience.

Now--I wonder--how would any of you label me and my path?

Peace and Love on the paths of your choice...

Blessed be...

A reasoned and balanced post from someone who clearly has a 'light' within. Respect to you for that.

[Occultist]

The point is many people might suprise you Knight for being balanced that does not abide by a spiritual law. The more you travel on your journey the more you will see that as a truth and nothing to fear.

[norseman]

Occultist [:hug2:] and LadyTerra [:hug2:]. A very good ending to a thread that was going no-where :smile:

[Serenity Bear]

I truely wish people would STOP confusing being spiritual with SPIRITUALISM, it isn't the same thing. Spiritualism IS a recognised religion in the UK, and has nothing in common with any other religion. You can be a Spiritualist without being spiritual and vis versa.

It is very much like compareing an Athiest with a Catholic, they are nothing alike. Wicca, Pagan and Druidism are not Spiritualism.

Just because you contact the dead does not mean you are a Spiritualist nor that you are spiritual.

[knightofalbion]

The point is many people might suprise you Knight for being balanced that does not abide by a spiritual law. The more you travel on your journey the more you will see that as a truth and nothing to fear.

Did not the lady say "I believe that when we particiapte in positive energy we get back times 3 and for negative energy we get back times 10"? That sounds suspiciously like belief in a law to me.


As our friend with his masters degree in science can confirm, 'Every action must have an opposite and equal reaction'. A fundamental law of physics and also a law of spirit. CONSEQUENCE.

As Silver Birch famously said (Re a man seeking to be absolved of his sins courtesy of a priest) "If a man seeks to escape the consequences of his actions, then he is not a man he is a coward"

One piece of television sticks in my mind. It was of a group of Chetniks (Bosnian Serbs) who had just come back from raping and murdering and ethnic cleansing in the Muslim-held territories. They were in the church at Pale, down by the alter, receiving absolution at the hands of the priest!
Denial of spiritual law, only serves to feed and encourage evil deeds.

We all have freewill to do good or evil. If 'we' choose the latter, then we will have to pay the price.

Our destiny is in our own hands.


The purpose of earthly life is to advance the soul, to ascend the spheres of Light.

'All law is part of one vast law. All works in harmony, because all is part of the Divine Plan. The lesson is that men and women throughout the whole world of matter must seek their salvation by working it out in their daily lives, and abandon all the false theology which teaches that it is possible to cast on to others the results and responsibilities of your own actions.
Man is the gardener of his own soul. The Great Spirit has provided him with all that is necessary for it to grow in wisdom, grace and beauty. The implements are there, he has but to use them wisely and well'
- Silver Birch

[knightofalbion]

"Perhaps we can play our part in divorcing Spiritualism from the spurious and misleading associations it so often has in the minds of many by lifting its image from ouija boards and fortune-telling on the pier to the inspiration of the Christ, from the concept of just another sect, cult or 'ism' to a realisation that its truths reveal the spiritual science on which the entire Cosmos is based and has its being"

- Peggy Mason (From 'New Age Companon')

Upwards and onwards towards a better world...

[LadyTerra]

There is room at the table for all of us and if we would only take a moment to listen we might just find that we have all been saying the same thing all along--just in different ways.

I believe there is much more common ground than we care to admit.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

Ever your friend,

LadyTerra

[Occultist]

Didnt say you said 3fold 10fold Lady did you need to read before respond.
you said "you" obey the rede and Gardenarian views.
Also your quoting - Peggy Mason (From 'New Age Companon')
Fortune Telling and Ouija boards are not cult its a divination tool.
Nothing evil I use them nor sect, cult or 'ism'.

[norseman]

No Three-Fold Law, but there is Three-Fold Lore :D

It originates in Celtic mythology concerning Arianrhod, the Weaver Goddess. She spins the thread of Life and the pattern of fate. Her web connects all things in a net of power, and your actions vibrate the web, affecting all that lies along the thread. Through the web, every action will eventually return you three-fold. This is the origin of the three-fold return.

However, I have my own theory. Every action or consequence of your action affects you three-fold - you mind, body, and spirit or, to use a model once popular, your Parent, Adult, Child states [ Ego, Superego, Id ]
QED.

[norseman]

Serenity Bear, I think you have that wrong.
You can be spiritual without being a Spiritualist, but you cannot be a Spiritualist without being spiritual.

[Occultist]

Mind Body and spirit being effected I can agree with. Because in casting we have to be in perfect balance in order to project the proper intent and purpose. But as far to say if I cast a curse I will recieve a curse or something to that effect I do not believe.
I believe in intent and purpose someone harms my own and mine I push back.
But I am a earth spirit in nature its part of my makeup and the earth can be both dark and light,positive and negative.
That in no way makes me evil just makes me who I am.

[Left Behind]

There's no correlation between Spiritualism and Witchcraft.

Spiritualism is about people on the earth plane contacting those in another plane of existence.

Witchcraft is about people on the earth place trying to manipulate physical or psychical forces to produce effects on the earth plane.

[Occultist]

Left Behind "Witchcraft is about people on the earth place trying to manipulate physical or psychical forces to produce effects on the earth plane."
Sorry that doesnt some up Witchcraft we can work with the elements and intent and purpose for a different outcome. <- that is part of it, But also it is a culture and way of life. Witchcraft is very complex and you are correct Witchcraft and Spiritualism should not be compaired like the OP did.

[Left Behind]

Left Behind "Witchcraft is about people on the earth place trying to manipulate physical or psychical forces to produce effects on the earth plane."
Sorry that doesnt some up Witchcraft we can work with the elements and intent and purpose for a different outcome. <- that is part of it, But also it is a culture and way of life. Witchcraft is very complex and you are correct Witchcraft and Spiritualism should not be compaired like the OP did.

I wasn't trying to sum up either Witchcraft or Spiritualism in a single sentence. I was trying to note the distinction between them.

Spiritualism likewise goes far beyond contacting the so-called dead. It is a Religion, Philosophy and Science based on the fact of spirit survival and contact.