View Full Version : Spirtual organization
Gopakumar
26-02-2012, 07:21 PM
Hi there dear friends
I want to share and develop some thoughts about creating spiritual organization.
Why we need it?
What are the pros and cons of it?
And to hear others view on the subject.
Right now I am thinking of some kind of "Democratic spiritual organization"
My first question is where do you think is the best place to start this conversation?
Am I on the right place?
:rolleyes:
athribiristan
27-02-2012, 12:56 AM
Hi there dear friends
I want to share and develop some thoughts about creating spiritual organization.
Why we need it?
What are the pros and cons of it?
And to hear others view on the subject.
Right now I am thinking of some kind of "Democratic spiritual organization"
My first question is where do you think is the best place to start this conversation?
Am I on the right place?
:rolleyes:
This is as good a place as any to have such a conversation. What is the purpose of creating this spiritual organization? What goals do you have in mind?
Gopakumar
27-02-2012, 05:55 PM
As I said in my welcome I have learned in different organization likes
"scientology" , "hare Krishna movement" , "landmark forum" , "judasim" and more.
They all had I think valuable knowledge and training that I fill very lucky to had the chance to get it.
But with none of them I found myself at home, and I do want to see myself as part of a group of good people that want to help people to grow and learn.
I think that by creating good groups like that we can change the world to be a better place,
But first we need to create some method of thinking how to build and manage such a group.
And right now my idea is something like "Democratic spiritual organization" .
Organization that gives people spiritual knowledge and training.
athribiristan
28-02-2012, 05:14 AM
Sounds excellent, consider me interested. What is our first step?
psychoslice
28-02-2012, 05:21 AM
You can organize people, but you cannot organize truth.
Historically, religion has been a way of systematizing and perpetuating a theistic way of thinking. This necessitates a certain amount of organization, business, promotion, and at times coercion.
In my experience, however, true spirituality is a very personal experience. This to me is the core dilemma of religion. No matter what the core dogma is, it is dogma, and it will never 'fit' everyone. There are certainly many generalities that occur in most religions, but in practical everyday terms this is rarely enough to forge a genuine connection to spirit - and will usually outright prevent it.
The solution, IMO, is to form a 'religious' group wherein the goal is to support individual spiritual realization. In many ways the Buddhist Sangha tries to do this, and can serve as a model.
Anything else will miss the mark, IMO.
athribiristan
29-02-2012, 04:04 AM
Historically, religion has been a way of systematizing and perpetuating a theistic way of thinking. This necessitates a certain amount of organization, business, promotion, and at times coercion.
In my experience, however, true spirituality is a very personal experience. This to me is the core dilemma of religion. No matter what the core dogma is, it is dogma, and it will never 'fit' everyone. There are certainly many generalities that occur in most religions, but in practical everyday terms this is rarely enough to forge a genuine connection to spirit - and will usually outright prevent it.
The solution, IMO, is to form a 'religious' group wherein the goal is to support individual spiritual realization. In many ways the Buddhist Sangha tries to do this, and can serve as a model.
Anything else will miss the mark, IMO.
I agree. The value menu model of spirituality benefits no one. Any attempt to create an organization must center around the journey of the individual.
My idea on such things is to create a venue. A particular place set aside with an atmosphere conducive to meditation, but it still has to be administered because of insurance, liability and legal requirements.
Caution needs to be taken so that the founder doesn't become 'the leader of his flock', so he best be in the backround while a variety of others lead meditation or discourses and stuff.
Have to be careful that social activity doesn't become predominant and disrupt the intended ambience, so a code of conduct needs to be enforced to maintain the appropriate atmosphere.
It's a very pragmatic thing, and needs tight controls that ensure legal compliance and appropriate conduct.
Sounds kinda controlling, but that's a fundamental of organization.
athribiristan
02-03-2012, 03:32 AM
My idea on such things is to create a venue. A particular place set aside with an atmosphere conducive to meditation....
If only we had some sort of online forum or something that would serve this purpose....:D
Once you institutionalize something that's a recipee for corruption IMHO.
Gopakumar
03-03-2012, 09:47 AM
"You can organize people, but you cannot organize truth."
psychoslice
"Once you institutionalize something that's a recipee for corruption IMHO."
Uma
Many organizations in the history used their power in corrupt ways but also most of them also to good things.
The questions are?
1. Does the value the humankind can gets from building a new spiritual organization worth the risks of corruptions?
2. Does we have any methods to minimize those risks
As you can guess my Answers for both things are YES.
The value we can get from building a spiritual organization is to share knowledge, energy and human qualities for the befit of all as we already do in every other good organization in the world likes hospitals , schools , governments etc , the only difference is the basics ideas those organizations are built upon.
Democracy although is not a perfect way for ruling is the best way we know It developed well enough regulations to prevent corruptions (and again it's not perfect).
"The solution, IMO, is to form a 'religious' group wherein the goal is to support individual spiritual realization. In many ways the Buddhist Sangha tries to do this, and can serve as a model."
Humm
I do agree with that but still we should not limit us only for one practice but try to use a variety of good practices as this forum is doing.
" A particular place set aside with an atmosphere conducive to meditation"
Gem
This could be one good implementation. And what I am talking about come before that I am talking about creating the model for group of people to come to work together for the befit of all in creating what they believe could accomplish this task.
Thank you all in participating in this conversation.
Many organizations in the history used their power in corrupt ways but also most of them also to good things.
The questions are?
1. Does the value the humankind can gets from building a new spiritual organization worth the risks of corruptions?
2. Does we have any methods to minimize those risks
As you can guess my Answers for both things are YES.
The value we can get from building a spiritual organization is to share knowledge, energy and human qualities for the befit of all as we already do in every other good organization in the world likes hospitals , schools , governments etc , the only difference is the basics ideas those organizations are built upon.
Democracy although is not a perfect way for ruling is the best way we know It developed well enough regulations to prevent corruptions (and again it's not perfect).
Democracy is definitely not a perfect way and it is often used for the othering and colonization of people - which goes against what spirituality is.
As long as people are in control of other people there will be corruption and the most dangerous people in the world are those with spiritual power.
Democracy is definitely not a perfect way and it is often used for the othering and colonization of people - which goes against what spirituality is.
As long as people are in control of other people there will be corruption and the most dangerous people in the world are those with spiritual power.
I thought it remarkable that one quite heavily involved in a spiritual institution would have such adverse views about it.
I thought it remarkable that one quite heavily involved in a spiritual institution would have such adverse views about it.
I am not involved in a spiritual institution.
I am not involved in a spiritual institution.
I've seen the website it looks like an institution of sorts, a school of spiritualizm if you will.
I've seen the website it looks like an institution of sorts, a school of spiritualizm if you will.
How do you define an institution, or a school of spiritualism? How do you know what I am representing? I'm curious, as you obviously have made up your mind.
Democracy is definitely not a perfect way and it is often used for the othering and colonization of people - which goes against what spirituality is.
As long as people are in control of other people there will be corruption and the most dangerous people in the world are those with spiritual power.
Gopakumar,
I was re-reading this thread and want to say to you that I'm sorry if I'm coming across as negative. I feel you have good intentions about this. It's just that power corrupts, that's a given.... Unless there is a process in place that unites people, levels the playing field, gives everyone an equal voice..... I have seen one model where this can work but it requires a high level of awareness and first rate moderation. The greatest process is the process of self-transformation. If people in a group are working on their own self-transformation together, sincerely, a powerful group synergy can happen that can transform the world.
But those who are in leadership positions need to work on their own self-transformation, and be humble to others who are in support - never dictating. In practice this can be done if leaders follow spiritual principles, seeing their own self in the other person and treating them as they would treat themselves. Sometimes I've seen things working out in groups like the 12-step groups, which are based on principles and people are reminded to be positive and follow a few agreed upon guidelines...and there are no leaders. But we do need leadership - it needs to be inspired leadership, the best kind of leadership. It is leaders who make or break an organization. I have had to deal with too many of the lousy kind....hence my negative attitude.
I wish you luck. Getting people to cooperate and not get carried away with their egotistical needs for power can be quite a challenge. But the world needs good intentions and better organizations...and we can't learn how to create them if we don't at least try, right?
How do you define an institution, or a school of spiritualism? How do you know what I am representing? I'm curious, as you obviously have made up your mind.
I just saw the website once and it seems to be a spiritual institution to me. There was a teacher who founded it, a premisis from which operations are conducted and where devotees can go, and a following of students who adhere to that teachers teachings.
I'm not sure of fees or how this body is funded, but I assume it has funding which maintains it.
Is that accurate?
I just saw the website once and it seems to be a spiritual institution to me. There was a teacher who founded it, a premisis from which operations are conducted and where devotees can go, and a following of students who adhere to that teachers teachings.
I'm not sure of fees or how this body is funded, but I assume it has funding which maintains it.
Is that accurate?
Ok if that's your definition of "institution". I would say Blue Star is an organization, not an "institution" - which is something far more structured. It says that on the website:
Blue Star is a non-profit, non-sectarian organization founded in 1988 by Sri Vasudeva. We are dedicated to the development of human potential at all levels - physical, mental, emotional, intellectual, social and spiritual. Our programs are focussed on self realisation, optimal well-being, community service and co-creating a more compassionate/peaceful world.
To my mind, "institution" is more like this (straight out of a dictionary):
institution |ˌinstiˈt(y)oō sh ən|
noun
1 a society or organization founded for a religious, educational, social, or similar purpose : a certificate from a professional institution.
• an organization providing residential care for people with special needs : an institution for the severely handicapped.
• an established official organization having an important role in the life of a country, such as a bank, church, or legislature : the institutions of democratic government.
• a large company or other organization involved in financial trading : the interest rate financial institutions charge one another.
2 an established law, practice, or custom : the institution of marriage.
• informal a well-established and familiar person, custom, or object : he soon became something of a national institution.
3 the action of instituting something : a delay in the institution of proceedings.
Actually "Blue Star" is a mission that was handed down to Sri Vasudeva. He did not create it. The story is that after attaining enlightenment he found his mother in a trance-like state and a saint was speaking to her and saying to tell him to call his ashram "Blue Star" and that it meant "The House of the Lord: The Whole Universe". Over the years Sri Vasudeva has been figuring out more and more what this mission is all about. He didn't invent it. Actually the Hopi's prophecied about a blue star coming, signalling a new Enlightened Age, and the unveiling of the secrets of Kundalini - which is very much what Blue Star is all about.
And when I say I am not part of an institution, it means that I align myself with Sri Vasudeva - his teachings, his vision, and his mission from his point of view - not necessarily those of his followers, many of whom I find live in tunnel vision. Some of them are the ones in the photographs, the ones who designed the website etc... He does not dictate what to do. He lives in alignment with the universe. He works with whoever or whatever the universe sends to him and builds his own vision with that. And if the winds change and there is a shift in the vision, he moves with that. And he has actually said he does not need Blue Star to do what he incarnated on earth to do, but that Blue Star is by the members for the members.
But a constant has been self-transformation - the shift in consciousness that brings self-mastery and, by association with others, a transformed world.
So there is the man, the being inside the man...and there is the physical place, an ashram, and the activities that go on inside of it. But it's not an "institution". His followers may develop it into that one day, after he is gone, but I don't think he will ever limit the possibilities of the mission by institutionalizing it.
Many who are drawn to him are religion-oriented so the websites have that look and feel of a religious group - but his view of Blue Star is much much broader than that.
I don't know if this clarifies it for you...but I am definitely not involved with an "institution". Blue Star is part of my karmic journey, because my teacher is involved in it - and for now, that's enough for me.
p.s. Thanks Gem for giving me an opportunity to share about Blue Star. I think this is the first time I've done that on this forum! Blue Star doesn't even have an official logo yet. It has its own agenda and own divine timing and we'll all still trying to figure out what that is... A lot of divine beings from higher realms are navigating all of this. It's quite amazing and exciting to be part of a process of unfolding of something so different to what's out there....
p.p.s. Wow - divine timing. This newsletter just popped into my mailbox. Gives the whole story: NEWSLETTER (http://www.bluestarcanada.org/newsletter.html)
Ok if that's your definition of "institution". I would say Blue Star is an organization, not an "institution" - which is something far more structured. It says that on the website:
To my mind, "institution" is more like this (straight out of a dictionary):
Actually "Blue Star" is a mission that was handed down to Sri Vasudeva. He did not create it. The story is that after attaining enlightenment he found his mother in a trance-like state and a saint was speaking to her and saying to tell him to call his ashram "Blue Star" and that it meant "The House of the Lord: The Whole Universe". Over the years Sri Vasudeva has been figuring out more and more what this mission is all about. He didn't invent it. Actually the Hopi's prophecied about a blue star coming, signalling a new Enlightened Age, and the unveiling of the secrets of Kundalini - which is very much what Blue Star is all about.
And when I say I am not part of an institution, it means that I align myself with Sri Vasudeva - his teachings, his vision, and his mission from his point of view - not necessarily those of his followers, many of whom I find live in tunnel vision. Some of them are the ones in the photographs, the ones who designed the website etc... He does not dictate what to do. He lives in alignment with the universe. He works with whoever or whatever the universe sends to him and builds his own vision with that. And if the winds change and there is a shift in the vision, he moves with that. And he has actually said he does not need Blue Star to do what he incarnated on earth to do, but that Blue Star is by the members for the members.
But a constant has been self-transformation - the shift in consciousness that brings self-mastery and, by association with others, a transformed world.
So there is the man, the being inside the man...and there is the physical place, an ashram, and the activities that go on inside of it. But it's not an "institution". His followers may develop it into that one day, after he is gone, but I don't think he will ever limit the possibilities of the mission by institutionalizing it.
Many who are drawn to him are religion-oriented so the websites have that look and feel of a religious group - but his view of Blue Star is much much broader than that.
I don't know if this clarifies it for you...but I am definitely not involved with an "institution". Blue Star is part of my karmic journey, because my teacher is involved in it - and for now, that's enough for me.
Organization, institution, matters very little, it's just a word salad really. There is a structure and organized system of education as prescribed by the founder or his mother and saint, and now it has many branches world wide (I assume with his consent).
How is it funded?
Organization, institution, matters very little, it's just a word salad really. There is a structure and organized system of education as prescribed by the founder or his mother and saint, and now it has many branches world wide (I assume with his consent).
How is it funded?
No Gem, it does matter...it all boils down to intention - what the intention behind something is...what the bottom line is. An institution is stuck in a rigid structure, rules, codes, legislation... An "organization" can be any collective really.
Suggest you read Foucault's ideas on governmentality.
Funding is by donation and the few dollars that come from sale of books/videos.
No Gem, it does matter...it all boils down to intention - what the intention behind something is...what the bottom line is. An institution is stuck in a rigid structure, rules, codes, legislation... An "organization" can be any collective really.
Suggest you read Foucault's ideas on governmentality.
Funding is by donation and the few dollars that come from sale of books/videos.
Well it's an organization then, the terms matter nothing to me, and the OP might use some ideas by looking at how blue star is structured.
In an earilier post I said these things present a risk of the founder becoming a 'leader of the flock'.
I'm involved in an ashram styled organization, and I think there are quite a few problems with it too.
Making an organization is a great thing, it provides a place people can go for serious and undistracted meditation and teaches good methods which help people.., but keeping these things pure is not an easy thing, because people seem to latch on to the founder as though he's a permanant fixture.
vBulletin v3.5.5, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.