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Humm
22-02-2012, 03:03 PM
Article from: http://www.utne.com/Mind-Body/Beyond-Debate-Club-Fostering-The-Art-Of-Argumentation.aspx

While no parent wants a petulant, argumentative teenager, cultivating a skill set for feisty debate in secondary school may be the most effective way to ensure a reasoned adulthood.

Columbia University’s Deanna Kuhn, a psychology professor whose work in cognitive science and education was recently profiled by Miller-McCune, worries argument “based on substantive claims, sound reasoning, and relevant evidence” is dying out—yet, in our ever more complex world, is ever more crucial. How, she set out to uncover, could we foster a generation of rational, well-informed citizens to meet the challenges of tomorrow? (http://www.miller-mccune.com/education/no-debate-kids-can-learn-by-arguing-38932/)

Though a geeky staple of secondary education, debate club was not the solution Kuhn investigated. Instead, she went meta. As in, metaphysical.

Kuhn’s subjects were mostly black and Latino students from a public middle school in Harlem, and all 48 were enrolled in a twice-weekly philosophy course for three years. Alongside the class’s curriculum, they researched and debated on controversial issues like animal rights and black market organ sales. “They often debated in pairs,” explains Burns, “not face to face, but online, in a sort of Socratic inquiry via Google Chat.”

Like all new material, the students didn’t initially “get” how to argue with nuance. Their topical stances, according to the article, lacked complexity. Many showed no interest in feedback from their instructors. But, “by the end of year two,” the magazine reports, “they had developed a thirst for evidence.” The young philosophers competed in a year-end showdown structured more like a debate club match, where half-cocked arguments and one-sided perspectives didn’t fly.

For a control group, Kuhn tracked 23 other students who learned philosophy like classic scribes: with their noses in books and pens scribbling essays. At the end of the third year of instruction, both groups took a written exam on yet another unfamiliar topic—a type of assessment for which the traditionally educated kids should be more prepared. But the results were surprising: “Nearly 80 percent of the students in the experimental group were writing essays that identified and weighed opposing views in an argument,” reports Miller-McCune. “Less than 30 percent of the students in the comparison group were doing so.”

In a media landscape hijacked by cable news personalities, internet trolls, and radio blowhards and an education system hijacked by standardized testing companies, these statistics are more than reassuring. They’re—dare I say it—enlightening.

Quintessence
22-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Interesting. This is nice to see. There's a component in addition here that I'd like to see included in such studies, and that's the ability of students to evaluate sources of information for their merit and/or applicability to a particular argument/situation. Thirst for evidence is one thing. Knowing where to get quality evidence is something else, yes?

Gem
23-02-2012, 07:46 AM
Yeah! It is a skill to see past the preconceptions which arize from the thought pattern of 'I Know', and on this formum where capital letters represent 'God's word' rightousness is at the extreme.

Try have a philosophical discussion and soon see that the two sided view is rare, which is weird, because to me everything has two sides, even myself.

Becoming familiar with 'the argument' requires a sense of equality where an attitude of what the other person thinks has merit but as we feel disposed to be Godly people we delude ourselves into thinking our thoughts are more relevent because they come from a 'Higher Place'.

Having said that the point of contention will be over 'we' and 'us' and 'ourselves' because people quite rightly don't like being spoken for, so I'm clarifying, it's generalized terminology.

Once the attitude of equality is established (as opposed to teacher/student styled dual paradigms) any other person feels free to say even ridiculous outrageous things as wild suggestions without fear of being judged... but when dual paradigms are imposed... one is aggrandized and another belittled and I've found some people are not prepared to communicate unless it under the terms of their imposed paradigm.

The equality allows for effective listening, which assists in appreciating the other side of the argument, and since there were no paradigms and the trial group were just dudes on the internet, they freely absorbed information and reciprocated, so no wonder they demonstrated themselves as having a thouough understanding, while the others remained quite superiouristic under a my veiw (Truth) and your view (Ignorant).

Humm
25-02-2012, 03:49 PM
Yeah! It is a skill to see past the preconceptions which arize from the thought pattern of 'I Know', and on this formum where capital letters represent 'God's word' rightousness is at the extreme.

Try have a philosophical discussion and soon see that the two sided view is rare, which is weird, because to me everything has two sides, even myself.

Becoming familiar with 'the argument' requires a sense of equality where an attitude of what the other person thinks has merit but as we feel disposed to be Godly people we delude ourselves into thinking our thoughts are more relevent because they come from a 'Higher Place'.

Having said that the point of contention will be over 'we' and 'us' and 'ourselves' because people quite rightly don't like being spoken for, so I'm clarifying, it's generalized terminology.

Once the attitude of equality is established (as opposed to teacher/student styled dual paradigms) any other person feels free to say even ridiculous outrageous things as wild suggestions without fear of being judged... but when dual paradigms are imposed... one is aggrandized and another belittled and I've found some people are not prepared to communicate unless it under the terms of their imposed paradigm.

The equality allows for effective listening, which assists in appreciating the other side of the argument, and since there were no paradigms and the trial group were just dudes on the internet, they freely absorbed information and reciprocated, so no wonder they demonstrated themselves as having a thouough understanding, while the others remained quite superiouristic under a my veiw (Truth) and your view (Ignorant).
Yes, the ability to see both sides of an argument is rare.

Just curious Gem - do you see your post above as representative of both sides of the issue you are presenting?

Gem
27-02-2012, 01:49 PM
Yes, the ability to see both sides of an argument is rare.

Just curious Gem - do you see your post above as representative of both sides of the issue you are presenting?

Sure, the fallacy of both sides the dual paradigm is basically it really. The guys who were just guys (in the trial) basically showed that among equals and through communcation a far greater understanding of any issue is reached.

Humm
27-02-2012, 02:02 PM
So what is the other side of "the preconceptions which arize from the thought pattern of 'I Know', and on this formum where capital letters represent 'God's word' rightousness is at the extreme"?