Does anyone else really exist outside of your mind?

[Mart]

Are you the universe?


What if everything you sense externally is just a physical manifestation of your soul.

What if you are your own virtual reality universe, creating your own characters from your subconscious who represent parts of your own character. What if you are your own environment which characterises that aspect of yourself that you are currently concentrating on.

What if you are the universe, the stars are those far flung parts of you that are far flung and hidden from you at this moment.

What if the friend that you respect is that part of yourself that you respect.

What if the partner that you love is that part of yourself that needs most love.

What if the cold lonely old lady who hates everything and everyone is that part of you that is bitter and frightened and cynical.

What if the pop star wannabe is that part of you that would love attention and fame and fortune.

What if the awesome beauty of the universe is merely a reflection of the awesome beauty of yourself.

What if everything comes through you. Everything, just a subconsciously driven physical interpretation bound by the rules that you set yourself . Nothing exists but you, everything exists because of you. You are everything and everything is you.

What if caring for everything is just caring for yourself? What if destroying anything is destroying yourself?

What if this idea is true. No-one can argue it away as a possibility. If you are the only person in the universe no-one else really exists. Of course other people will say that they do exist. You believe that they do exist and ultimately what you believe is what you see in your virtual reality.

What if I am just an alternative perspective of yourself and you are just an alternative perspective of me. If you had had my life and my body would you not be me and act as I do?

If this was true you could understand and forgive everything that has ever offended you because there are always reasons why you should forgive yourself.

What if every crime is motivated by a persons fear of their own self. Show me a person that truly loves themselves and causes offence, it would be difficult to do.

What if anyone who truly loves themselves understands that true love only comes from truly loving everything, true respect only comes from truly respecting everything, true trust only comes from total honesty about everything.

How can you not love someone who always loves you and respects you and is honest with you. How can they not love themselves for feeling your love for them? They feel love because they give love and respect and honesty.

So anyway, what if you are the universe - it

[silver swan]

Hi Mart.

As a teenager I suffered from a deep depression. I felt as if I were the only person on earth. It was as if I would walk out of a room and the people inside would cease to exist. It disturbed me to think that I could not prove that this was not the case.

I have thought about it a lot since, and I believe that initially I was having some sort of identity crisis. But as is the case with most things, it made me stronger. I think it was the beginning of self awareness. As a very young child, I was troubled by the meaning of life. I needed answers, and this awareness is part of the process of searching. It reminds me of an old saying, "If theres no-one in the forest, would you still hear a tree fall."

Thankyou for starting this interesting thread.

[jeremy67]

Great subject for a thread Mart, thanks :smile:

As you say, nobody can conclusively prove that your supposition is wrong, so the best we can do is play devil's advocate and try to throw some spanners in the works.

So here goes...


- The entire universe is a product of my imagination or manifestation of my soul...

Which means:

- The people I perceive around me are parts of this manifestation also...

Therefore:

- Nobody else in the universe exists in their own right...

So:

- I am the only person in the universe...

Ergo:

- I am, to all intents and purposes, God.

But:

- If I am God, why have I only created me, and not provided myself with lots of playmates?

Which suggests that:

- I am a lonely God...

So:

- Why don't I create lots of other souls to keep me company?

Result:

- I am no longer the only soul in existence.

Thus:

- At least some of the people I perceive around me, do actually exist in their own right...

Therefore:

- The universe is not entirely a manifestation of my own soul.

Q.E.D. :D


Um, or something like that!!!

Anyone else want to hurl a spanner or two?

Love and Light,

Jeremy :cool:

[auricman]

dude that made so much sence (not jokeing for once)
nice explaneation :)

[Mart]

What if i said you are god and your loneliness and inability to find peace in yourself is the reason that you create this virtual reality to keep yourself company. You cannot prove this idea not to be the case, but you can prove that it is the case by surrendering to it and growing in understanding of it, you will soon start to notice the "universe" working for you in ways that are too far fetched to be coincidence. The rules that govern the universe are the rules that your subconcious beliefs set out. You will not be seen as God until you work out how to act like God. You will not be able to act like God until you believe that you are God. You will not be able to believe you are God until you believe that nothing in the universe exists exept through you and as a physical manifestation of your deep subconcious. To know that everything is a manifestation of some part of yourself will mean that to love yourself you must love everything. "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers so you do unto me" To believe in God is to believe in yourself, to trust God is to trust yourself, because you are God and everything you see around you is just another aspect of yourself, worthy and yearning for exactly the same thing you want - honesty and respect.

It is a Zen Buddhist idea, but realise you created all of these texts and philosophies and ideas, you created this email because you want to know the truth and find peace - don't you. I am just that aspect of yourself that is prompting you to acknowledge the truth and surrender to it. See the thread - my answer for eternal happiness, for a meditation that you can use if you want. You can only but hurt if you struggle against the truth, you know this is true because you set the rules and you would never choose unhappiness if you were aware of how to obtain happiness.

Open your mind and accept the truth, surrender and let good things come your way. There is nothing to be frightened of.

[jeremy67]

You will not be able to believe you are God until you believe that nothing in the universe exists exept through you and as a physical manifestation of your deep subconcious. To know that everything is a manifestation of some part of yourself will mean that to love yourself you must love everything.
...

Open your mind and accept the truth, surrender and let good things come your way. There is nothing to be frightened of.


Mart, you talk a lot of sense :smile:

A couple of things though... My earlier reply to this thread was just a stream of hypothetical reasoning. I just want to get straight the fact that I don't believe I am God, because I know I am not!!! However, I am of God.

I am the first person to put my hand up and admit that I am far, far from perfect, but I cannot accept the notion that everything in the universe is a manifestation of my deep subconscious... There are desperate, dark, evil things in this world that I refuse to believe are the product of my inner self, and while I am willing to share mankind's guilt as a whole for these, I simply cannot reconcile that they have sprung from within me.

One point I fully agree with, is that the more you embrace the universe, the more it works in your favour. I have found this to be the case increasingly over the last few years, but this doesn't necessarily mean the universe is of my own making.

Love and Light,

Jeremy :cool:

[Mart]

Hi Jeremy,

I realise that this line of thinking is challenging, but it's not meant in an offensive way, i'm just exploring this idea with you.

I would not necessarily say that the universe is representative of you as a person, but i would say that it is representative of an extrapolation of every thought, desire and fear you have ever had or have the potential to have out to the limits that you have defined for yourself. Awareness grows like a ripple on a pond, in ever increasing circles. If you push the boundaries of awareness in any direction the whole circle becomes bigger, therefore you may feel that you are not responsible for "bad" things, and in this awareness you are not, but by increasing your awareness in an outward direction you are inadvertently causing it to grow in directions that you could never concieve of and certainly would not approve of. Like the Tao Te Ching says if you create good you create evil, rich you create poor etc. Bad things are created to highlight what is good, bad things only come from neglect and lack of love, lack of trust in the process and to provide the motivation to make the right effort and surrender to what the universe (yourself) asks you to do in order to make things peaceful again. No one likes bad things, enough bad things happen to you and you will eventually look for a way of getting good things, because at the end of the day it is peace/God/the source that you are searching for. All i am saying is if you surrender to it and accept your true nature things are a lot nicer.

If you do not aspire to be God you will never attain godliness - godliness being trancendental peace and love attained through true knowledge (wisdom). If we all started from one point at the big bang, what differences do we really have? I would also say that being God is a fairly passive past time, it is not a power thing it is a peace thing.

[Bob23]

Marvellous!

And, ofcourse, how can I not agree with myself!

It's obvious and simple really.

And the great thing is; who could possibily escape this given grace!

Life is, is it not?

Bob23. :wink:

[TzOlKiN]

Well I'm the urban spaceman baby, here comes the twist...I Don't Exist....

(Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band)

[auricman]

........THAT!....made no sence at all.

[DirtyMagicalAly]

I'm confused about something...

I presume, you as the writer, Mart, believe yourself to exist, and therefore, that you are 'God' and that everything is created through you. But then, if Bob23, Auricman, TzOlKiN, jeremy67 and myself all take what you are saying to be true, then 5 of us are all believing ourselves to be the only 'real' people through which everything is created, no?
And, how can that possibly be, if everything is created through ONE person?

Although this theory is very interesting....I personally cannot acept it to be true, Im of the same opinion (somewhat) as Jeremy, there are somethings in this world that I point-blank refuse to believe are manifestations of my sub-concious...despite the many thoughts and desires I may have had, I refuse to believe that they would create some of the things that exist in this world....
So, interesting theory, but not for me, and it seems to have a few flaws / holes (or maybe just parts to it that Im not getting) that detract me from it even more....

[Red Sky]

I find this whole thread fascinating. I tend to believe that all that exists does so because of our belief that it exists. It seems that there is so much about the human mind that we don't yet understand that our source of answers actually exists right there inside us if only we could truly understand our own minds fully. Perhaps there is only one mind - the mind of God, higher consciousness or whatever you want to call it. If so then we would all be manifestations of the one mind and all that we see and that supposedly exists would be manifestations of that one mind which in a sense would make each of us God and one.

Now I've gone and given myself a headache.

[Mart]

I'm confused about something...

I presume, you as the writer, Mart, believe yourself to exist, and therefore, that you are 'God' and that everything is created through you. But then, if Bob23, Auricman, TzOlKiN, jeremy67 and myself all take what you are saying to be true, then 5 of us are all believing ourselves to be the only 'real' people through which everything is created, no?
And, how can that possibly be, if everything is created through ONE person?

Although this theory is very interesting....I personally cannot acept it to be true, Im of the same opinion (somewhat) as Jeremy, there are somethings in this world that I point-blank refuse to believe are manifestations of my sub-concious...despite the many thoughts and desires I may have had, I refuse to believe that they would create some of the things that exist in this world....
So, interesting theory, but not for me, and it seems to have a few flaws / holes (or maybe just parts to it that Im not getting) that detract me from it even more....


Ah but Ally, what if i said i don't exist.

[Mart]

Tzolkin seems to be saying he doesn't either. Does this email only exist because someone is trying to tell themself something? It's nothing to be fearfull of, it doesn't change anything really - just you understand yourself a bit better and you take control of yourself a bit better and there is less to be scared of when you realise you are everything in and out, you can't be scared of yourself can you?

[TzOlKiN]

May I begin this post with a 'Caveat',

The views expressed from this 'apparent' position here are not intended to be prescriptive or antagonistic to any 'apparent' other, in any way, it is simply the view-point of the 'body-mind' known here as TzOlKiN.

When it was 'seen' that there was no 'me' it was also seen that there are no 'others'.

Bob Adamson, expresses this far more simply, when he states:

"If I believe that I am seperate, an individual, a seperate entity and person, then I am insecure. So at the first level, the family level, I try to have a warm and loving family around me to make me feel secure. Then, there is the tribal level. And if I can be 'in with the tribe', then I will be more secure. Then there is the nation. And nations go to war with nations over the same self-centredness or insecurity-divisions and seperations.

And yet all the great scriptures, all the great religions, all the great traditions will tell you that God (if you like to use that term) is one-without a second. It is non-dual. It is just this present awareness, just this and nothing else. Some Christian scriptures will tell you 'I am the Lord thy God; there is no other'. Another term they use is that God is Omnipresence, Omniscience and Omnipotence. It is all-presence and all knowing and all-power. And they mean exactly that: Non dual, one without a second, presence-awareness.

Now, where does that leave room for a 'you' or a 'me' or anything else? If there is a 'you' and a 'me' in this all-power, all-presence and all-knowing, that means that it is not all-knowing, it is not all-presence and it is not all-power. So from that point of view, all of this manifestation can be nothing other than That. And that is one of the great sayings from the Hindu tradition; 'Thou Art That'. Because there is nothing other than That.

Consciousness is all there is. There is no one to have consciousness...The whole thing is consciousness

TzOlKiN

[Mart]

When you give everything, you get it all.